Iberians and North Italians are Celts?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

According to Sikeliot Iberians and North Italians are Celts...I am ignorant of genetics but I don't think this is true. I would be surprised if it was true.

[Rædwald]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Hallstatt_LaTene.png

I suppose technically

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Hallstatt_LaTene.png

I suppose technically

Does it mean they are related to French, Irish, Welsh, Scots...? Other "Celtic" nations?

[Sikeliot]

On AncestryDNA, people of both groups do score "Britain" and "Ireland" at high percentages in their breakdown which is not true of southern Italians... it's not that they are fully Celtic but they spoke Gaulish and Celt-Iberian, respectively, before Latin and they share much genetically with other Western Europeans.

[Damião de Góis]

Celtic genetics don't exist first of all, so the answer is no. The only thing you could say is that they were once celtic speakers (like most of Europe):

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/Celts_in_Europe.png

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Celtic genetics don't exist first of all, so the answer is no. The only thing you could say is that they were once celtic speakers (like most of Europe):

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/Celts_in_Europe.png

Ah....I see. Sikeliot said it in a genetic sense, though, which is odd. I asked who southern French are close to, he said Iberians and North Italians, and his reasoning was they they are all Celts.

[Sikeliot]

Ah....I see. Sikeliot said it in a genetic sense, though, which is odd. I asked who southern French are close to, he said Iberians and North Italians, and his reasoning was they they are all Celts.

Celtic descent as opposed to Roman transplants from Central Italy I meant.

[SupaThug]

''Celt'' is a meaningless term when it comes to genetics,it is only worth for countries to build their ''identity'',and I don't think that Iberians and North Italians need this Celtic stuff!

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Celtic descent as opposed to Roman transplants from Central Italy I meant.

Well, why are the southern French people close to them in the first place? That's what I want to know.

[Sikeliot]

Well, why are the southern French people close to them in the first place? That's what I want to know.

Well North Italians and South French would have always been similar, because the people inhabiting both regions before Roman times were more or less the same people.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Well North Italians and South French would have always been similar, because the people inhabiting both regions before Roman times were more or less the same people.

Interesting, you think North Italians today are mostly descended from those peoples? And what of Iberians?

[Sikeliot]

Interesting, you think North Italians today are mostly descended from those peoples? And what of Iberians?

I think they are all descended from the pre-Roman populations.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I think they are all descended from the pre-Roman populations.

I didn't know the southern French were so close to Iberians or North Italians to be honest. Really, are they really close?

[Sikeliot]

I didn't know the southern French were so close to Iberians or North Italians to be honest. Really, are they really close?

Iberians and southern French are close, and North Italians overlap with but are slightly south of them on average as all Italians, north to south (though more in the south) have stronger Neolithic West Asian genes than the other two, and the Alps a barrier to migration.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Iberians and southern French are close, and North Italians overlap with but are slightly south of them on average as all Italians, north to south (though more in the south) have stronger Neolithic West Asian genes than the other two, and the Alps a barrier to migration.

So Iberians are even closer to them than North Italians. Are the southern French closest to Iberians or just really close?

[Sikeliot]

So Iberians are even closer to them than North Italians. Are the southern French closest to Iberians or just really close?

Yes to both.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Yes to both.

Okay, one thing I don't understand, is I thought the old Iberians were darker, whereas the Gauls were blond and blue eyed. But IDK, I think the Romans described Iberians this way too. There probably actually wasn't much of a difference between Gauls and old Iberians pre Roman times.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I think sometimes Gauls were darker, and sometimes Iberians were lighter.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Iberians and southern French are close, and North Italians overlap with but are slightly south of them on average as all Italians, north to south (though more in the south) have stronger Neolithic West Asian genes than the other two, and the Alps a barrier to migration.

This.

[Damião de Góis]

I didn't know the southern French were so close to Iberians or North Italians to be honest. Really, are they really close?

Since this is in the genetics forum, and you're asking who is closer to who, then before making these questions you should read this sub-forum a little more.

European genetics in a nutshell:

http://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/novembreblogpostfig.jpg

And my own Eurogenes K13 distances. Anything under 10 should be considered close:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/14jnsp2.jpg

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Since this is in the genetics forum, and you're asking who is closer to who, then before making these questions you should read this sub-forum a little more.

European genetics in a nutshell:

http://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/novembreblogpostfig.jpg

And my own Eurogenes K13 distances. Anything under 10 should be considered close:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/14jnsp2.jpg

Yeah, I am pretty ignorant of genetics, I apologize. But the reason I am on this forum is to learn. That's very interesting what you have shown me. I wish I knew how to find out more without asking people.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

So, correct me if I am wrong, it seems like southern French are really closest to Iberians and North Italians than any other people?

[Damião de Góis]

So, correct me if I am wrong, it seems like southern French are really closest to Iberians and North Italians than any other people?

I don't know if Swiss or Belgians are closer, but both Iberians and North Italians would be in their top 5 closest populations.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I don't know if Swiss or Belgians are closer, but both Iberians and North Italians would be in their top 5 closest populations.

Well I suppose considering where France is in the world...of course I am talking about more southern French, I think they would be closer to North Italians and Iberians rather than Belgians anyway. But IDK. Anyways it's all very interesting. I believe the more North you go in France the more distant the people are genetically from Iberians and North Italians. Central French people are the intermediate between Germanic and Iberian/Italian.

[Sikeliot]

There is a gradient in Southern Europe as you move south and southeast; these populations usually cluster together, though don't take this as an absolute since there are obviously exceptions. When I say "Western" and "Eastern" I mean these groups plot similar on a north/south axis, but one is shifted east versus the other due to Baltic type genes.


- North Italians, Iberians & South French (western) & Bulgarians, Macedonians and Romanians (eastern)
- Tuscans, Central Italians (western) & Albanians and north-central Greeks (eastern)
- South-central Italians (Campania, Apulia, Abruzzo, etc.) & Peloponnese Greeks
- Far southern Italians (Sicily, Calabria, etc.) & Cretan, Dodecanese islander Greeks

Then Sardinians and Basques form their own clusters.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

There is a gradient in Southern Europe as you move south and southeast; these populations usually cluster together, though don't take this as an absolute since there are obviously exceptions. When I say "Western" and "Eastern" I mean these groups plot similar on a north/south axis, but one is shifted east versus the other due to Baltic type genes.


- North Italians, Iberians & South French (western) & Bulgarians, Macedonians and Romanians (eastern)
- Tuscans, Central Italians (western) & Albanians and north-central Greeks (eastern)
- South-central Italians (Campania, Apulia, Abruzzo, etc.) & Peloponnese Greeks
- Far southern Italians (Sicily, Calabria, etc.) & Cretan, Dodecanese islander Greeks

Then Sardinians and Basques form their own clusters.

So are the Gauls and the Iberian warriors basically the same people?

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j158/ealabor/ops.jpg~original

I did not know the French and Iberians share history, I think it's a good reason for Franco-Iberian friendship in politics.

http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Asterix/images/carnyx-7.jpg

Brothers united against Roman invaders lol

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

BUMP! I want to know if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberians were the same people as the Gauls? Would this explain why southern French are closest to Iberians, and North Italians? Were North Italians, Iberians and Gauls before Roman times all the same people? No one has answered.

[Sikeliot]

Were North Italians, Iberians and Gauls before Roman times all the same people? No one has answered.

Closely related, yes.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Closely related, yes.

I find that very interesting. Do most Iberians of today descend from the Iberians of pre Roman times? I will ask the same question for North Italians, or were the old inhabitants kind of assimilated into another group? I know modern French are definitely close to their Gaul ancestors.

[Sikeliot]

I find that very interesting. Do most Iberians of today descend from the Iberians of pre Roman times? I will ask the same question for North Italians, or were the old inhabitants kind of assimilated into another group? I know modern French are definitely close to their Gaul ancestors.

You are asking the same thing in a million different ways. Let me make it abundantly clear.

1) Romans didn't displace anyone. The same people living in these places now are the people always there.
2) They are all closely related; descended from RELATED tribes.

Good enough?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

You are asking the same thing in a million different ways. Let me make it abundantly clear.

1) Romans didn't displace anyone. The same people living in these places now are the people always there.
2) They are all closely related; descended from RELATED tribes.

Good enough?

Yes I understand now :)

Last question, what do you define North Italy? Where does North Italy become South Italy?

[Petalpusher]

I think you really need to see that kind of chrono map (there are probably better ones overall) but that's a start :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l53bmKYXliA

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I think you really need to see that kind of chrono map (there are probably better ones overall) but that's a start :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l53bmKYXliA

Yes, I have seen it.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Here we see three men:

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/21/129721-004-8DC457D5.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/8/8a/Mussolini_mezzobusto.jpg

http://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/degaulle.jpg

All three leaders of their countries during World War II. One an Iberian with roots in Andalusia, the other an Italian from Emilia-Romagna and finally a Frenchman. De Gaulle was not fully French by blood but his father was and though born in the northernmost part of France that's not where his father's roots are. It is my understanding these three men share a genetic history, all three descended from closely related peoples before Roman times.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

You are asking the same thing in a million different ways. Let me make it abundantly clear.

1) Romans didn't displace anyone. The same people living in these places now are the people always there.
2) They are all closely related; descended from RELATED tribes.

Good enough?

BTW although the populations today are basically the same as they were I still think they all have some other blood by now.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Celts probably originate in iberia for fuck's sake. They had dark people settle the south in the late neolithic, but those survivors are a minority. Most of any darkness comes from the muslim incursion. But there is no blond hair within celts originally, that comes from nordic and baltic influence.