Kurdistan independence referendum

[Halgurd]

Previous referendum was held in 2005: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan_independence_referendum,_2005

The Kurdistan Independence referendum of January 2005 that was conducted by the Kurdistan Referendum Movement alongside the Iraqi parliamentary elections and Iraqi Kurdistan elections of 2005, was an informal referendum asking the people of Iraqi Kurdistan whether they favor remaining a part of Iraq or in favor of an independent Kurdistan. The result was an overwhelming majority of 98.8% favoring an independent Kurdistan.[1] On 22 December 2004, a non-partisan delegation headed by Mr. Ardishir Rashidi-Kalhur, President of the Kurdish American Education Society met with Ms. Carina Pirelli, Head of the U.N. Electoral Assistance Division and staff, at The United Nations Headquarters in New York, to handover 1,732,535 signatures, which were collected endorsing the call for an independence referendum on the future of Southern Kurdistan.

Results:


For Independence:1,973,412
Against independence: 20,251
Total: 1,998,061
Percentage for yes: 98.88%
Percentage for no: 1.12%

Key: Green=majority yes Red=no

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/2005_Iraqi_Kurdistan_independence_referendum_map.s vg/1024px-2005_Iraqi_Kurdistan_independence_referendum_map.s vg.png

[Qara]

I support freedom of Kurdistan against Turkey. Our ex-president Heydar Aliyev had supported PKK against Turkey. Still, there are PKK camps in Nakhchivan afaik.

[Kriptc06]

Soon they will vote, Do you think its possible for them to get their independence?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68QNg5KyOSs

[Lucia]

Good luck! :cheer_icoon:

[Wadaad]

Not going to happen, unless Turkey is made irrelevant. Btw Erdogan announced he is sending troops to Idlib....so no kurdish ethnic cleansing willbe conducted

[Lucia]

Of course, Egyptian giving me thumbs down for saying ''Good luck''. I think 6/9 of my thumb downs are from him. :picard1:
Please, round it up to 10 now.

[Egyptian]

Not going to happen, unless Turkey is made irrelevant. Btw Erdogan announced he is sending troops to Idlib....so no kurdish ethnic cleansing willbe conducted

It's Egypt's fault since the very beginning, we have Defense Pact with Syria and Iraq and yet we didn't do anything to stop the war there.

what i say, we have puppets in our regimes.

[Egyptian]

Of course, Egyptian giving me thumbs down for saying ''Good luck''. I think 6/9 of my thumb downs are from him. :picard1:
Please, round it up to 10 now.

nah, I will let it at 9.

[Lucia]

nah, I will let it at 9.

Okay, until next time I say ''Good luck'' then.

[Wadaad]

It's Egypt's fault since the very beginning, we have Defense Pact with Syria and Iraq and yet we didn't do anything to stop the war there.

what i say, we have puppets in our regimes.

Must be embarrassing for Egyptians to hear Netanyahu congratulate Sisi in his UN general Assembly speech

[Vožd]

Why Arabs can have more then 10 countries and Kurds noone?

[Egyptian]

Why Arabs can have more then 10 countries and Kurds noone?

Because it's our land, Kurds (with all due respect) came from Iran.. but let me ask you a question, I want to take your home, do you agree?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Because it's our land, Kurds (with all due respect) came from Iran.. but let me ask you a question, I want to take your home, do you agree?

Kurds are from Kurdistan.

[Egyptian]

Kurds are from Kurdistan.

Give me an ancient map of kurdistan, something like ancient map of Egypt.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Give me an ancient map of kurdistan, something like ancient map of Egypt.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Near_East_ancient_map.jpg/450px-Near_East_ancient_map.jpg

[Gleaves]

Another state that will be supported by American taxpayers, without economy, industry, and any point for existence.
Good luck.

[Egyptian]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Near_East_ancient_map.jpg/450px-Near_East_ancient_map.jpg

I can't see any kurdistan name

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I can't see any kurdistan name

These are old teritorries of Kurdistan... which settled old Kurdish tribes (LONG TIME BEFORE TURKS)

[Vožd]

Because it's our land, Kurds (with all due respect) came from Iran.. but let me ask you a question, I want to take your home, do you agree?

But Arabs come from Arabian peninsula, and they now is majoritiy on whole north Africa and middle east.
Kurds have own home, its greatest nation without country, they deserve it. This should be a new country:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Kurdistan_project_en_2.PNG

[meisje]

It would be a new Israel who are not recognized and isolated by its neighbour s, Unlike Israel,Kurds have landlocked Lands,Do not have any seaport, They dream of a Kurdistan from Syrian Mediterranean to Iran,Yet Assad and Russia won't let any sea access to Ypg either Turkey

[Vlatko Vukovic]

It would be a new Israel who are not recognized and isolated by its neighbour s, Unlike Israel,Kurds have landlocked Lands,Do not have any seaport, They dream of a Kurdistan from Syrian Mediterranean to Iran,Yet Assad and Russia won't let any sea access to Ypg either Turkey

You must not give them all territories which they want. Just offer them 2-3 regions and you would see that they will accept. You just don't want any kurdish country.

[meisje]

But Arabs come from Arabian peninsula, and they majoritiy on whole north Africa and middle east.
Kurds have own home, its greatest nation without country, they deserve it. This should be a new country:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Kurdistan_project_en_2.PNG

Copy-Paste Maps from Wiki Pictures You Imbecile with Zero Knowledge about Demographic s of Region,Kurds are MINORITY in the so many Lands in Kurdistan Map, Antep-Hatay-Kilis-Erzincan-Kars...,Have You ever heard those Cities, Learn your Lesson before coming here

[Tschaikisten]

Support for Erdogan against Kurdish commie scum.

[meisje]

You must not give them all territories which they want. Just offer them 2-3 regions and you would see that they will accept. You just don't want any kurdish country.

Firstly Shia Turkmens,Later Armenians and Assyrisns were deported from Eastern Turkey by Ottomans in the last 500 years,Kurds have been Majority in some areas like Van-Beyazit-Mardin Thanks to Turks,Ironically,They try to show us as Israel like in ancient Kurdish Lands ,Big Comedia

[Wadaad]

Without Turk there is no kurdish.
Kurdish = Iranians adopting Turkic nomadic lifestyle.

[Egyptian]

But Arabs come from Arabian peninsula, and they now is majoritiy on whole north Africa and middle east.
Kurds have own home, its greatest nation without country, they deserve it. This should be a new country:
[IMG]

Arabs term doesn't mean the arabs from arabia, Most of MENA are called arabs because we do speak arabic and muslims but in reality a lot of countries in MENA aren't ethnically arabs.

Egypt still preserve their old civilization
Berbers in North Africa still preserve their civilization
Lebanese do
etc.

[Vožd]

Arabs term doesn't mean the arabs from arabia, Most of MENA are called arabs because we do speak arabic and muslims but in reality a lot of countries in MENA aren't ethnically arabs.

Egypt still preserve their old civilization
Berbers in North Africa still preserve their civilization
Lebanese do
etc.

What you have in common with ancient Egyptians today except genes?
After arabized and islamized, Egyptians adopt Arab culture. Berberians is not assimilated at all, but Arabs from Morocoo for example have Berberian origin.

[zhaoyun]

I think it's 50/50, but blood will be spilled for sure.

[Halgurd]

Give me an ancient map of kurdistan, something like ancient map of Egypt.

Ironic since you're from Egypt, and your country's character is owed to a Kurd (Salahaddin).

Nonetheless search Mahmud Al Kashgari and you will see a map from the 11th century showing an 'Ard Al Akrad' next to Syria and Iraq (clearly creating a historic base for a Kurdish country). It is the most ancient map of Kurds that I've come across so far.

Al Kashgari was also a Turk so it's quite ironic when Turks reject our existence.

[Halgurd]

Without Turk there is no kurdish.
Kurdish = Iranians adopting Turkic nomadic lifestyle.

No, Kurds were not nomads. Kurds were semi nomads, meaning they migrated within a defined territory (upper part of the Zagros mountains which overlaps with upper Mesopotamia). Turks were nomads, they migrated wherever which is why Turkic people are so spread out.

'Iranian' isn't an ethnicity, it's a modern nationality designating your citizenship and was established in the 20th century.

I'm sure, as a Somali, you have better things to worry about than my history and identity which you really know fuck all about.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Without Turk there is no kurdish.
Kurdish = Iranians adopting Turkic nomadic lifestyle.

Kurds deserve their own countries. Arabs have 10 countries, Kurds 0.

[Pahli]

Without Turk there is no kurdish.
Kurdish = Iranians adopting Turkic nomadic lifestyle.

Kurds predate Turks in the Middle East by at least 1000 years, they were already living in Eastern Anatolia before the Turks were around but this fact is always denied by nationalists for their own purpose.

[Kamal900]

Arabs have 10 countries

22 countries to be exact.

[Ghazi]

i support Kurdistan independence

[wvwvw]

Kurds deserve their own countries. Arabs have 10 countries, Kurds 0.

By the same logic there were already as many Slavic countries, and yet Bosnia and other smaller countries were granted Independence..

[Vlatko Vukovic]

By the same logic there were already as many Slavic countries, and yet Bosnia and other smaller countries were granted Independence..

Yeah, so?

[StonyArabia]

Previous referendum was held in 2005: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan_independence_referendum,_2005

The Kurdistan Independence referendum of January 2005 that was conducted by the Kurdistan Referendum Movement alongside the Iraqi parliamentary elections and Iraqi Kurdistan elections of 2005, was an informal referendum asking the people of Iraqi Kurdistan whether they favor remaining a part of Iraq or in favor of an independent Kurdistan. The result was an overwhelming majority of 98.8% favoring an independent Kurdistan.[1] On 22 December 2004, a non-partisan delegation headed by Mr. Ardishir Rashidi-Kalhur, President of the Kurdish American Education Society met with Ms. Carina Pirelli, Head of the U.N. Electoral Assistance Division and staff, at The United Nations Headquarters in New York, to handover 1,732,535 signatures, which were collected endorsing the call for an independence referendum on the future of Southern Kurdistan.

Results:


For Independence:1,973,412
Against independence: 20,251
Total: 1,998,061
Percentage for yes: 98.88%
Percentage for no: 1.12%

Key: Green=majority yes Red=no

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/2005_Iraqi_Kurdistan_independence_referendum_map.s vg/1024px-2005_Iraqi_Kurdistan_independence_referendum_map.s vg.png

No way Mosouli Arabs have voted like that lol

[Halgurd]

No way Mosouli Arabs have voted like that lol

Mosul Arabs didn't vote in that referendum, only the Kurdish northern section of Mosul voted (like Sinjar and areas east of the river) but today you will be surprised. The Arab tribes of Nineveh province under KRG control have announced an official pro independence stance, as well as Assyrians and Turkmens of Erbil.

[Turkminator]

The Kurds in Iraq can agree with the Arabs on this point: However, Kirkuk and Mosul are doubtless Turkish soil. For that, anybody who is against it - we would buried them on this ground and wash them with their own blood.

[Luca]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Near_East_ancient_map.jpg/450px-Near_East_ancient_map.jpg

No Kurdistan name on that map. There never was such a state as Kurdistan. More likely there was a state called persia, which just had a lot of settlers that moved westwards and later called themselves kurds

[Halgurd]

No Kurdistan name on that map. There never was such a state as Kurdistan. More likely there was a state called persia, which just had a lot of settlers that moved westwards and later called themselves kurds

Kurdistan on that map is called Corduene, which is the native name meaning 'land of Cords (Kurds).'

Also search Mahmud Al Kashgari and you will see a map from the 11th century showing an 'Ard Al Akrad' next to Syria and Iraq (clearly creating a historic base for a Kurdish country). It is one of the most ancient maps of Kurds that I've come across so far.

Kurds are not Persians who migrated west, this idea is favoured by racist Assadists and also Persian fascists who try to decredit our struggle. Turks and other Arabs also created similar theories. None of these are true. Kurds are descended from the mountaineers of Zagros and Upper Mesopotamia, particularly the Hurrians and their affiliated tribes.

[Luca]

Kurdistan on that map is called Corduene, which is the native name meaning 'land of Cords (Kurds).'

Wrong. "It is mentioned as Beth Qardu in Syriac sources and is described as a small vassal state between Armenia and Persia in the mountainous area south of Lake Van in modern Turkey" It was a small persian vassal state, meaning it was a persian colony in turkish lands. Back then only the gutian people lived there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduene#Origins)


Kurds are not Persians who migrated west
Ok, I only want to search truth, so tell me, how else did the kurds come there, if not from the persians, which language is practically identical to the kurdish language. This even serves as a proof kurds are just persian settlers. Or can you show they are not related to persians?

[Pahli]

Wrong. "It is mentioned as Beth Qardu in Syriac sources and is described as a small vassal state between Armenia and Persia in the mountainous area south of Lake Van in modern Turkey" It was a small persian vassal state, meaning it was a persian colony in turkish lands. Back then only the gutian people lived there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduene#Origins)


Ok, I only want to search truth, so tell me, how else did the kurds come there, if not from the persians, which language is practically identical to the kurdish language. This even serves as a proof kurds are just persian settlers. Or can you show they are not related to persians?

Kurds are not Persian, where do you lunatics get this shit from?

Kurds are most likely a result of Medes tribes and Parthians settling along the Zagros Mountains from Iran all the way to modern Turkey, they had a different dialect to their Persian relatives, although similarities occur, a Kurdish person cannot understand a Persian by speaking his native language.

[Egyptian]

Ironic since you're from Egypt, and your country's character is owed to a Kurd (Salahaddin).

Nonetheless search Mahmud Al Kashgari and you will see a map from the 11th century showing an 'Ard Al Akrad' next to Syria and Iraq (clearly creating a historic base for a Kurdish country). It is the most ancient map of Kurds that I've come across so far.

Al Kashgari was also a Turk so it's quite ironic when Turks reject our existence.

my country character owed to a kurd (salah el din)? first of all the identity of salah el din is controversial, even some sources suggest he is of armenian roots not kurd, he didn't speak kurd in Egypt, he didn't lead a kurdish army (but Egyptian Syrian army), he didn't say hey let's put kurdish language as the formal language in Egypt.

[Chev Chelios]

Do Kurds have any interest in their Iranian/Iranic meta-ethnicity? pro-Iranian or anti-Iranian?

And if Iraqi Kurdistan become an independent country, the next targets are Syria, Turkey and Iran (Greater Kurdistan)?

[Halgurd]

Wrong. "It is mentioned as Beth Qardu in Syriac sources and is described as a small vassal state between Armenia and Persia in the mountainous area south of Lake Van in modern Turkey" It was a small persian vassal state, meaning it was a persian colony in turkish lands. Back then only the gutian people lived there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduene#Origins)

What's your point? Beth Qardu is the Syriac name given to it, Corduene was its native name as I said. In modern day Kurdish it would be called 'Kurdan' meaning 'land of Kurds', similar to the Kurdish principality called 'Soran' which meant 'land of red'. What Turkish lands? Turks didn't even exist in the Near East back then.



Ok, I only want to search truth, so tell me, how else did the kurds come there, if not from the persians, which language is practically identical to the kurdish language. This even serves as a proof kurds are just persian settlers. Or can you show they are not related to persians?

Kurdish is not identical to Persian.

1. Kurdish dialects have gender, Persian does not.
2. Kurdish is considered a North Western Iranic language, Persian is considered South Western.
3. Kurdish is agglutinative, Persian is not.
4. Vocabulary wise Kurdish is very different as well, as many words in our language come from non Iranic sources such as the Hurrians and other Upper Mesopotamians.
5. Kurdish is much more diverse which is a result of Kurdistan's geography. There are 4-5 different dialects and each dialect has sub dialects. This itself is proof of the Kurds nativity, as this diversity is only possible through thousands of years of geographic isolation between Kurdish clans (mountains). In Germany it used to be similar between the German people who had different dialects until certain reforms that began in the 18th/19th century that united the dialects.

It's true, Kurdish and Farsi are linguistically close but they are not the same. Besides, you are the one making such a claim so it would be upon you to prove it.

[Halgurd]

my country character owed to a kurd (salah el din)? first of all the identity of salah el din is controversial, even some sources suggest he is of armenian roots not kurd, he didn't speak kurd in Egypt, he didn't lead a kurdish army (but Egyptian Syrian army), he didn't say hey let's put kurdish language as the formal language in Egypt.

Salahaddin was a Kurd whose family was from the Armenian city of Dvin, but was born in Tikrit after his village was attacked by Turks. His generals and army actually consisted of many Kurds, and there were many internal disputes between the Turks and Kurds in his army. The reason why much of Egypt is Sunni Shafi'i today, like most Kurds, is because of Salahaddin who came from this background and spread this creed. This is also why there are many people in countries like Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan with Kurdish ancestry. His uncle was even called Shirkuh which in Kurdish means 'lion of the mountains'. I don't think it can get more obvious than that, it's an accepted fact nowadays.

It's true though, he did not do much for Kurds and I am not a fan of him. However, his very existence as a Kurd disproves what you initially said about my people. We are not Persians.

[Pennywise]

Good news. I am sure you're so excited to leave Europe and move there. :rolleyes:

[Halgurd]

Good news. I am sure you're so excited to leave Europe and move there. :rolleyes:

I'm sure the millions of Turks in Europe and America are itching to return to their glorious motherland, like that 'Anatolian Stallion' who threatens the Kurds of Kirkuk whilst living in Germany.

[Pennywise]

I'm sure the millions of Turks in Europe and America are itching to return to their glorious motherland, like that 'Anatolian Stallion' who threatens the Kurds of Kirkuk whilst living in Germany.

So if you're not going to move and live there, why are you guys so excited to have an independent country? What's the point? The situation with the Turks is not the same with yours.

[Halgurd]

So if you're not going to move and live there, why are you guys so excited to have an independent country? What's the point? The situation with the Turks is not the same with yours.

1) For the diaspora I would say it's more about identity. You Turks don't know what it feels like to have your very existence questioned and threatened.

2) Whose to say that many of us won't eventually move back? I personally know of many Kurds who have moved back, including my siblings. Besides, most Kurds in Europe are not even from the 'Iraqi' part.

[Luca]

Kurds are not Persian, where do you lunatics get this shit from?

Kurds are most likely a result of Medes tribes and Parthians settling along the Zagros Mountains from Iran all the way to modern Turkey, they had a different dialect to their Persian relatives, although similarities occur, a Kurdish person cannot understand a Persian by speaking his native language.

Wth, do you even listen to yourself? Just look at the facts, kurdish and farsi (persian) are almost mutually intelligible: "My boyfriend is Kurdish and he confirmed that Kurdish/Sorani is more similar to Farsi than to any other language. But that doesn't mean that he understands everything in Farsi (they are still 2 separate languages)" - https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090808123733AANqFF4
Now you might disagree, but lets just look for a chart of how the indo european languages developed (btw, Kurdish and Farsi are both indo european)
https://i.imgur.com/D9aIcgC.png
And what can we see here? A connection to persian, who would have guessed?
But i wanna BTFO you even more, so lets look at the distribution of Indo-european languages, shall we?
https://i.imgur.com/VoKncY4.png
Hmmm, maybe now you can see that absolutely clear connection between kurds and persians?

Kurds are not Persian, where do you lunatics get this shit from? i assume we get that by not being driven by some political ideology and instead actually doing some research.


Kurds are most likely a result of Medes tribes
And? medes tribes are literally Persian. Look at the chart above.

[wvwvw]

So if you're not going to move and live there, why are you guys so excited to have an independent country? What's the point? The situation with the Turks is not the same with yours.

There are million of Kurds who already live there, no need for him to move there.

[Pahli]

Wth, do you even listen to yourself? Just look at the facts, kurdish and farsi (persian) are almost mutually intelligible: "My boyfriend is Kurdish and he confirmed that Kurdish/Sorani is more similar to Farsi than to any other language. But that doesn't mean that he understands everything in Farsi (they are still 2 separate languages)" - https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090808123733AANqFF4
Now you might disagree, but lets just look for a chart of how the indo european languages developed (btw, Kurdish and Farsi are both indo european)
https://i.imgur.com/D9aIcgC.png
And what can we see here? A connection to persian, who would have guessed?
But i wanna BTFO you even more, so lets look at the distribution of Indo-european languages, shall we?
https://i.imgur.com/VoKncY4.png
Hmmm, maybe now you can see that absolutely clear connection between kurds and persians?
i assume we get that by not being driven by some political ideology and instead actually doing some research.


And? medes tribes are literally Persian. Look at the chart above.

You're an idiot, Medes were not Persian but a separate Iranian tribe related to them although their language was quite different. I am not denying any connections between Kurds and Persians but that doesn't automatically make all other Iranic ethnicities related to fucking Persians do they? I guess all Germanic people are "German" then by your flawed logic, get your head out of your ass.

[Luca]

You're an idiot, Medes were not Persian but a separate Iranian tribe related to them although their language was quite different. I am not denying any connections between Kurds and Persians but that doesn't automatically make all other Iranic ethnicities related to fucking Persians do they? I guess all Germanic people are "German" then by your flawed logic, get your head out of your ass.

ofc they are

[Pahli]

ofc they are

Thanks for wasting my time, auf wiedersehen.

[wvwvw]

Turkey Desperate to Stop Kurdish Vote; 41 Killed in Iraq

Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yıldırım submitted a motion to the Turkish parliament on Friday asking to extend for another year Turkish military authority in Iraq and Syria — where Kurdish-dominated regions are holding elections. Turkey currently has troops stationed in Iraq that Baghdad wants out. Turkey views an independent state in either country as a threat to its own security due to the large population of Kurds there.

Turkey has continued to call on Iraqi Kurdistan to cancel its independence referendum, threatening Erbil with sanctions, but Kurdish President Massoud Barzani has rejected all demands to stop the vote. The Kurdish supreme council of the referendum underscored that sentiment by declaring that the voting would take place as scheduled on Monday. However, the councilmembers also intimated that talks with Baghdad were still possible on Saturday.

http://original.antiwar.com/updates/2017/09/22/turkey-desperate-stop-kurdish-vote-41-killed-iraq/

[wvwvw]

Kurds ready to pay any price for freedom, Barzani says, sticking by independence vote

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-kurd-referendum-barzan/kurds-ready-to-pay-any-price-for-freedom-barzani-says-sticking-by-independence-vote-idUSKCN1BX26F

[Kriptc06]

Their referendum is tomorrow, I wonder the outcome

[Babak]

Kurdish and Persian are not mutually intelligible. Sorani might be 'more' similiar, but that still doesn't mean Kurdish speakers can understand persian speakers. I can't understand shit when kurds speak to each other, I can can only pick up a couple of words and thats it.