How important is the monarchy to Spaniards?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Discuss.

[Murphy]

Speaking as a non-Spaniard.. Dios, Patria, Fueros, Rey!

[The Lawspeaker]

I am (when it comes to my own country) a Republican but Spain should do as it sees fit.

[perikolez]

The importance of monarchy is inexistent. Juan Carlos de Borbon is only the sucessor of the dictator Francisco Franco . He is only king because Franco decided it . I would say that there arent more than 20% of monarquist in Spain. Probably there are more or less 30-40% of republicans , and for the rest of the people is the same if Spain is a republic or a monarchy. 80-90% of the people dont consider themselves a subdit of Juan Carlos. For them is more important the PP-PSOE bipartidism and their leaders , and Juan CArlos and their long family are only like famous popular people of TV , and nobody consider them as leader of Spain. The leader of Spain is the elected president of Spain.

[Ibericus]

The royal familiy is all about gossip more than anything. Altough Juan Carlos is descendant of very important people in Spanish history, like Pelayo or Jaume I, most spaniards don't give a damn about monarchy.

[Vasconcelos]

Pelayo, really? Oo

[Oinakos Growion]

nah. The current King is accepted because he allegedly "brought democracy" (despite having been appointed by the dying dictator) and he's a "charming character". Other than that the royal family is little more than a source of gossips featuring in glossy magazines. There's a significant but traditionally rather silent group of republicans (although this is changing). Most people really don't care and only a colourful few truly are pro-monarchy.
When this king is gone his son Felipe will have a hard time keeping the whole business together...

[poiuytrewq0987]

The importance of monarchy is inexistent. Juan Carlos de Borbon is only the sucessor of the dictator Francisco Franco . He is only king because Franco decided it . I would say that there arent more than 20% of monarquist in Spain. Probably there are more or less 30-40% of republicans , and for the rest of the people is the same if Spain is a republic or a monarchy. 80-90% of the people dont consider themselves a subdit of Juan Carlos. For them is more important the PP-PSOE bipartidism and their leaders , and Juan CArlos and their long family are only like famous popular people of TV , and nobody consider them as leader of Spain. The leader of Spain is the elected president of Spain.

Well, yes but when you have a jester like Zapatero for president...

[Oinakos Growion]

Well, yes but when you have a jester like Zapatero for president...
At least he can be kicked out in the elections. On the other hand, if you get a clown for a king you're stuck for a looong time ;) (unless you go medieval :D)

[Amapola]

From a personal viewpoint... Juan Carlos is NOT my king and i am NOT his subject ; the usurpation of the throne came to be by means of a coup d'etat ordered by Freemasonery which has handed the country over to revolutions countless times.

I also don't serve a King that signs abortion laws.

[Ibericus]

The spanish monarchy is the oldest monarchy in the world after Japan, just a fact

[Vasconcelos]

Oh the other hand Kings are not likely to be corrupt, and usually get a very strong education on their future duties as rulers.
I supposed I'd favour Monarchy..if I lived in one..but I don't!

[Arrow Cross]

The history of monarchies from the XXth Century is indeed a sad and pathetic one. In all countries.

[Oinakos Growion]

The spanish monarchy is the oldest monarchy in the world after Japan, just a fact
erm...


Oh the other hand Kings are not likely to be corrupt
You'd be surprised :D


usually get a very strong education on their future duties as rulers
Oh, they get a great education alright. But not everybody can drive a formula 1 car you know ;)
You can train someone really good, but if that someone is not really up to it from the beginning there's nothing you can do.

[Murphy]

Interesting fact: the Pope gave the Spanish Kings the rights to Ireland after Henry VIII abandoned God ;)!

[perikolez]

The spanish monarchy is the oldest monarchy in the world after Japan, just a fact

This monarchy is a Franco dinasty. Without Franco , Juan Carlos wouldnt have been king. On the other hand , Juan Carlos traitioned his father and gave legitimacy to a dictatorship . I am not a fan of the second republic , and my family was franquist , but Franco wasnt the man who had to choose what Spain had to be , and who had to be the king. The actual monarchy was imposed and the actual constitution was semimposed , and actually Spain is a false democracy dominated absolutely by PP and PSOE.

On the other hand , monarchy could be aceptable in ancient times with no democracy , and people being slaves of other powerful men. But actually , if we choose Zapatero or Aznar , and if theorically every spaniard has the same rights ,having a monarchy is a contradiction.

[perikolez]

Interesting fact: the Pope gave the Spanish Kings the rights to Ireland after Henry VIII abandoned God ;)!

Are there drunk bears in Ireland:D? , and ski stations? , and beautiful beaches and yates? .

I dont think that the actual dinasty(french Borbon) is the same that received rights to Ireland.

[Wulfhere]

The spanish monarchy is the oldest monarchy in the world after Japan, just a fact

Eh? How do you work that out?

The English monarchy traces to Cerdic of Wessex around AD 500.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Eh? How do you work that out?

The English monarchy traces to Cerdic of Wessex around AD 500.


The Spanish monarchy has its roots in the Visigothic Kingdom founded in Spain and Aquitainia in the 5th century, and its Christian successor states which fought the Reconquista following the Muslim conquest of Spain in the 8th century. A dynastic marriage between Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon united Spain in the 15th century. The Spanish Empire became one of the first global powers as Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand funded Christopher Columbus's exploratory voyage across the Atlantic Ocean. This led to the discovery of America, which became the focus of Spanish colonization.

[Ibericus]

This monarchy is a Franco dinasty. Without Franco , Juan Carlos wouldnt have been king. On the other hand , Juan Carlos traitioned his father and gave legitimacy to a dictatorship . I am not a fan of the second republic , and my family was franquist , but Franco wasnt the man who had to choose what Spain had to be , and who had to be the king. The actual monarchy was imposed and the actual constitution was semimposed , and actually Spain is a false democracy dominated absolutely by PP and PSOE.

On the other hand , monarchy could be aceptable in ancient times with no democracy , and people being slaves of other powerful men. But actually , if we choose Zapatero or Aznar , and if theorically every spaniard has the same rights ,having a monarchy is a contradiction.
Yes, I know. But there is not much difference between a monarchy and a false democracy with only 2 parties which are basically the same. I am not a monarchist but neither a republicanist.

[Ibericus]

Eh? How do you work that out?

The English monarchy traces to Cerdic of Wessex around AD 500.
The spanish monarch goes back to 409 AD :

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabla_cronol%C3%B3gica_de_reinos_de_Espa%C3%B1a

"Este linaje entroncará sin interrupción hasta Juan Carlos I, lo que la convierte en la dinastía reinante más antigua del mundo, sólo por detrás de la japonesa".

[The Lawspeaker]

Oh the other hand Kings are not likely to be corrupt, and usually get a very strong education on their future duties as rulers.
I supposed I'd favour Monarchy..if I lived in one..but I don't!
That doesn't go for all monarchs- unfortunately. (http://bilderberg2010.com/bilderberg-group/bilderberg-attendees/)

[Oinakos Growion]

The spanish monarch goes back to 409 AD :

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabla_cronol%C3%B3gica_de_reinos_de_Espa%C3%B1a

"Este linaje entroncará sin interrupción hasta Juan Carlos I, lo que la convierte en la dinastía reinante más antigua del mundo, sólo por detrás de la japonesa".
There's maaany "dark periods" in there to consider it any sort of "straight line"...
Seriously, do you consider a Bourbon (French house anyone?) married to a Greek (no offence to my Greek friends) the unquestionable successor of some first Visigothic king?
What about his own brother? what about the other kid, the one who should be king of France too...? what about the Swabians? the fact that Germanic kings were appointed by acclamation? what about...? ad infinitum.
naaah... too far-fetched for me. If we go back to the grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-(add a few more "grands" here)-grandmother of someone marrying some dude who was duke or count or whatever somewhere at some time we could all be linked to the Scorpion King (http://southportbooze.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/scorpion-king.jpg) at some stage, you know :P :D
It's all the typical monarchist illusion, common to all monarchies, trying to justify themselves. Don't fall into their trap ;)

[Ibericus]

There's maaany "dark periods" in there to consider it any sort of "straight line"...
Seriously, do you consider a Bourbon (French house anyone?) married to a Greek (no offence to my Greek friends) the unquestionable successor of some first Visigothic king?
He is a descendant of some visigothic kings :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Arbol-borbon.gif




It's all the typical monarchist illusion, common to all monarchies, trying to justify themselves. Don't fall into their trap ;)
I never said im a monarchist, but i am neither a republicanist

[Oinakos Growion]

hm... That genealogical tree has many holes in my opinion ;) From the unsolved issue of acclaimed Visigothic kings, to different nomenclatures for different kings, to naming Garcia I "king of Leon" (wtf?), or to mentioning that the House of Oldemburg is a "reigning" house in Greece (wtf? part II).
I guess it's the official tree from the royal house... hehe

But hey, maybe it's just me. I'm starting to feel a bit like that lately... :P :D

[Ibericus]

hm... That genealogical tree has many holes in my opinion ;) From the unsolved issue of acclaimed Visigothic kings, to different nomenclatures for different kings, to naming Garcia I "king of Leon" (wtf?),

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garc%C3%ADa_I_de_Le%C3%B3n

[Oinakos Growion]

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garc%C3%ADa_I_de_Le%C3%B3n
Ah! I stand corrected for that one ;) I was mixing him with another Garcia I...

I maintain the rest though :D

[Cato]

As an American, I've inherited a strong trend of anti-moarchialism from my revolutionary forefathers. Monarchs these days are largely useless ceremonial functionaries and figureheads and entirely unworthy of such august, ancient royal personages as Alfred the Great, Cyrus, Megas Alexandros, Leonidas, Ferdinand and Isabella, Tokugawa Ieyasu, Tsao Tsao, Qin Shih Huang, Sargon of Akkad, or Marcus Aurelius. In other words, the "fighting" monarchs who ruled their nations from the forefront and so won fame eternal battling the enemies of the commonwealth.

However, to me, even the greatest king of kings or emperor pales in comparison to a Washington or a Jackson.