Just how close are Irish, Scottish, English and Welsh people?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Genetically how close are they?

[Prisoner Of Ice]

The main difference is just how much nordic versus celtic, with some regional variation.

[Jackson]

Very close, although they can be split into 17 different sub-clusters, with the largest and most homogenous being that of much of lowland England. Although it should be emphasized that these groups are all very similar. The most outlying group (not including Shetland) are the people of Orkney because they have significantly more Norwegian ancestry than other groups in the Isles.

[Gooding]

Genetically how close are they?

That's a good question. How close are Irish, Scottish, English and Welsh? In generalities? Let me try to break this down for you, because there is an overlap, most visibly between the Northern England and the Scottish Lowlands. The Scottish Lowlanders are genetically closer to the English to the South, while the Scottish Highlanders tend to be closer to the Irish to the west. Some Scots in the Far North of Scotland are more closely related to the people of Norway, especially in the Orkney and Shetland Islands. The Welsh are distinctive in Britain, once you get away from the Welsh Marches of England, where many of the people are, again, more closely aligned with the English to the east. It goes both ways, of course. You'll find plenty of English families who read as Celtic genetically around the borderlands of Wales and Scotland. The English themselves, especially around the southern regions, tend to favor the Germanic tribes of Western and Central Europe. That's my general impression.

[Graham]

You get 3 types of people in Britain/Ireland. 1st the North Atlantic Side, 2nd those that tilt towards Norway & thirdly the English that are closer to North France/Germany. All 3 groups overlap. Scots tend to be the first 2 types.




We haven't seen much of Welsh genetics done Europe wide.

[Jackson]

You get 3 types of people in Britain/Ireland. 1st the North Atlantic Side, 2nd those that tilt towards Norway & thirdly the English that are closer to North France/Germany. All 3 groups overlap. Scots tend to be the first 2 types.




We haven't seen much of Welsh genetics done Europe wide.

The Welsh are really somewhat understudied.

[Longbowman]

The Welsh have been studied.

You've got the ancient North Wales (Gwynedd) cluster, the South Wales cluster, the Southern Pembrokeshire little-England-beyond-England cluster, and the borders cluster[s].

In admixture terms they're all incredibly similar.

[Imamudin]

You get 3 types of people in Britain/Ireland. 1st the North Atlantic Side, 2nd those that tilt towards Norway & thirdly the English that are closer to North France/Germany. All 3 groups overlap. Scots tend to be the first 2 types.




We haven't seen much of Welsh genetics done Europe wide.

The English are much closer to a bunch of others before the Germans, like the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, French, Dutch or Spanish.

[Graham]

The Welsh are really somewhat understudied.

Yeah I know, frustrating. Would love to compare some of Wales & Brittany, in relation to South-East England & North West France, through Gedmatch.

[Longbowman]

The English are much closer to a bunch of others before the Germans, like the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, French, Dutch

yes


or Spanish.

lolno.

[Trogdor]

I always thought the Irish, Scottish and Welsh were more closely related all being Celtic, while the English were closer to the Germans.

[Imamudin]

yes



lolno.

I mean North Spain of course.

[Gooding]

The English are much closer to a bunch of others before the Germans, like the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, French, Dutch or Spanish.

Confirmed. Much of my ancestry is English and I tend to cluster very closely with the Dutch, somehow.

[Gooding]

I mean North Spain of course.

Yeah, I'd have thought the same thing, but apparently Iberians disagree and I'll go with their analysis. At first glance though, you really would think so.

[Longbowman]

I mean North Spain of course.

Still not even close, genetically. If you think they look similar that's your call.

[Imamudin]

Still not even close, genetically. If you think they look similar that's your call.

I haven't said they're close, but closer than to the Germans.

[Catkin]

No, we are closer to the Germans than we are to the Spanish. As I posted before, my Eurogenes K13 results:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Dutch 2.43
2 Orcadian 2.68
3 Irish 2.91
4 Danish 3.23
5 West_Scottish 3.64
6 Southeast_English 3.84
7 North_German 4.2
8 Southwest_English 4.48
9 Norwegian 4.79
10 Swedish 6.93
11 South_Dutch 7.34
12 West_German 8.23
13 North_Swedish 13.12
14 Austrian 13.13
15 French 13.14
16 East_German 13.54
17 Hungarian 17.71
18 Spanish_Cataluna 20.48
19 Southwest_Finnish 21.14
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 21.68

Also I'm not fully English, but part Irish: fully English people may well be even closer to Germans than I am.

[Longbowman]

I haven't said they're close, but closer than to the Germans.

Incorrect.

[Graham]

Both my Euro Oracles pulls closer to some other North Sea nations before 'South England'.

K13

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_Scottish @ 3.561598
2 Irish @ 4.499962
3 Orcadian @ 4.524945
4 North_Dutch @ 5.508466
5 Southwest_English @ 5.638236

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.561598

K15

-- K15 --
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Orcadian @ 4.754434
2 West_Norwegian @ 6.793912
3 West_Scottish @ 6.922198
4 North_Dutch @ 7.799130
5 Danish @ 8.081676

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 4.252707

[Longbowman]

In terms of 'closer,' ergo admixture (I don't have IBD results anyway) here's K8 for Southwest English (closest to Spain), Germans and Cantabrians (closest Spanish to England):




ANE
SEA
Near Eastern
East Eurasian
WHG
Oceanian
Pygmy
SSA


German (n=11)
14.07%
0.73%
39.38%
0.13%
44.96%
0.26%
0.22%
0.24%


Southwest English (n=31)
13.64%
0.61%
39.96%
0.05%
45.26%
0.26%
0.14%
0.07%


Cantabria (n=6)
7.30%
0%
49.78%
0.34%
40.75%%
0.48%
0.30%
1.05%



As you can see...the Germans are actually in some ways closer to the Spanish than are the English.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

No, we are closer to the Germans than we are to the Spanish. As I posted before, my Eurogenes K13 results:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Dutch 2.43
2 Orcadian 2.68
3 Irish 2.91
4 Danish 3.23
5 West_Scottish 3.64
6 Southeast_English 3.84
7 North_German 4.2
8 Southwest_English 4.48
9 Norwegian 4.79
10 Swedish 6.93
11 South_Dutch 7.34
12 West_German 8.23
13 North_Swedish 13.12
14 Austrian 13.13
15 French 13.14
16 East_German 13.54
17 Hungarian 17.71
18 Spanish_Cataluna 20.48
19 Southwest_Finnish 21.14
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 21.68

Also I'm not fully English, but part Irish: fully English people may well be even closer to Germans than I am.

The 'germans' are mainly germanized celts. Original germans were not. Spanish have north african DNA which pulls them as a country far away on plots. They are still mostly celtic though.

[JBoscherville]

No, we are closer to the Germans than we are to the Spanish. As I posted before, my Eurogenes K13 results:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Dutch 2.43
2 Orcadian 2.68
3 Irish 2.91
4 Danish 3.23
5 West_Scottish 3.64
6 Southeast_English 3.84
7 North_German 4.2
8 Southwest_English 4.48
9 Norwegian 4.79
10 Swedish 6.93
11 South_Dutch 7.34
12 West_German 8.23
13 North_Swedish 13.12
14 Austrian 13.13
15 French 13.14
16 East_German 13.54
17 Hungarian 17.71
18 Spanish_Cataluna 20.48
19 Southwest_Finnish 21.14
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 21.68

Also I'm not fully English, but part Irish: fully English people may well be even closer to Germans than I am.

Are there any English people without Irish ancestors? :p




Still not even close, genetically. If you think they look similar that's your call.

Aren't we relatively close to them? :confused: At least compared to the closeness of a Korean and someone from Vietnam? Or am I understanding this wrong? :confused:

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/global-genetic-distances-map.jpg

[Gooding]

Are there any English people without Irish ancestors? :p

Well, here are my Eurogenes 13 results, although my being an American might have " tainted" them somewhat, a good part of my family has been English for centuries.. Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southeast_English @ 3.466228
2 Orcadian @ 4.705978
3 Southwest_English @ 5.060140
4 South_Dutch @ 5.245272
5 North_Dutch @ 5.299627
6 Danish @ 5.814469
7 Irish @ 5.853244
8 North_German @ 5.922781
9 West_Scottish @ 6.513793
10 West_German @ 6.742904
11 Norwegian @ 7.926299
12 Swedish @ 9.455050
13 French @ 11.612298
14 Austrian @ 12.926639
15 East_German @ 13.513567
16 North_Swedish @ 15.459769
17 Hungarian @ 18.460772
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 19.822258
19 Southwest_French @ 20.750923
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 21.080109

I am a lot less English than Catkin is, obviously. :)

[Catkin]

Are there any English people without Irish ancestors? :p

Haha, I know! ;) Seems more do than dont.

[Catkin]

I am a lot less English than Catkin is, obviously. :)

Not according to our K13 results :p

[Gooding]

Not according to our K13 results :p

Err.. well.. yeah, but.. but.. oh, very well then, you're right.:)

[Gooding]

Of course the Dodecad 9 World has me clustered a bit closer to Europe than the K13 did:
Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Mixed_Germanic @ 1.857396
2 Dutch @ 2.625295
3 German @ 3.144553
4 CEU30 @ 3.611091
5 Cornwall @ 3.992026
6 Kent @ 4.165034
7 British @ 4.308375
8 British_Isles @ 5.339808
9 Hungarians @ 5.362765
10 Argyll @ 5.973369
11 Irish @ 6.209578
12 Orcadian @ 6.375422
13 French @ 6.513970
14 Orkney @ 6.868367
15 Ukranians @ 7.131302
16 French @ 7.568250
17 Polish @ 8.209380
18 Belorussian @ 10.188931
19 Norwegian @ 10.922727
20 Swedish @ 11.262153

It's good that the results are so similar.. it tells me that the data is reliable. Perhaps, using my results as an Anglo- American standard, it could also be useful as some sort of template for people of British descent overall. Maybe in that way I can be of infinitesimally small use to those people who produced so much of my family.

[Jackson]

Here's from the 4-mix ancestry results that someone on the Eurogenes blog put together, for the recent K9 for myself:

One of the closest matches for me is 52% (northern) French and 48% Icelandic, and i'm a little closer to the French than average:

Target = 41% French + 21% English + 2% English + 36% Norwegian @ D = 0.0076

Target = 4% French + 30% French + 16% French + 50% Norwegian @ D = 0.0079

Target = 52% French + 0% English + 0% English + 48% Icelandic @ D = 0.0067

Distances to some populations using the K9, notice the difference between French and French South, like two populations:

English: 0.0174
Utah_USA: 0.0199
Utah_German 0.0332
Orcadian: 0.0515
French: 0.0726
Icelandic: 0.0795
Utah_Scandinavian: 0.0842
Polish: 0.1321
Russian: 0.1622
Spanish: 0.2058
French_South: 0.2098
Spanish_North: 0.2109
Assyrian: 0.593
Yoruba (west African): 1.1719

Some ancient pops:

Alberstedt_LN: 0.0557
HungaryGamba_BA: 0.0767
Bell Beaker: 0.0949
Halberstadt_LBA: 0.0988
Corded Ware: 0.3103
HungaryGamba_EN: 0.5323
Esperstedt_MN: 0.4514
Loschbour: 0.6019 (WHG from Belgium)
Karelia_HG: 0.4167 (EHG from Karelia)

Lower the number the lower the distance to that person/population.

[Longbowman]

Aren't we relatively close to them? :confused: At least compared to the closeness of a Korean and someone from Vietnam? Or am I understanding this wrong? :confused:

All species are related in some way, but we are not nearly as close to the Spanish as we are to the Germans.

[Jackson]

The 'germans' are mainly germanized celts. Original germans were not. Spanish have north african DNA which pulls them as a country far away on plots. They are still mostly celtic though.

Well the modern people in Spain are genetically more north-eastern (Celtic included, they must have been genetically quite northern) than their predecessors in the early and middle Neolithic. They have a little north African DNA but in terms of overall ancestry they are more European (as in less affected by post-Neolithic west Asian/near eastern geneflow) than say southern Italians, Greeks etc.

[JBoscherville]

All species are related in some way, but we are not nearly as close to the Spanish as we are to the Germans.

See see. How accurate is that map by the way?

[Longbowman]

See see. How accurate is that map by the way?

Which map? I didn't provide one.

[JBoscherville]

Which map? I didn't provide one.

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/global-genetic-distances-map.jpg

Oh my bad, this one ^

[Longbowman]

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/global-genetic-distances-map.jpg

Oh my bad, this one ^

According to the key, the darker the blue, the more accurate. Red not so accurate. That's based on sample size however. The reality is it will be very accurate, but perhaps not comprehensive. Like a BMI chart, it accurately measures BMI but not necessarily obesity proper.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Haha, I know! ;) Seems more do than dont.

Yes, because many came during the famine.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Incorrect.

I know the French, and the southern French especially are very close to Spanish, and Walloons are close to them too. Just saying, I know the English are more Germanic I think.

[Gooding]

I know the French, and the southern French especially are very close to Spanish, and Walloons are close to them too. Just saying, I know the English are more Germanic I think.

I tend to concur. All we have to go by is history and now genetic proof to see just how Germanic parts of England are. Those test tubes do come in handy when trying to figure things out, don't they? :thumb001:

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I tend to concur. All we have to go by is history and now genetic proof to see just how Germanic parts of England are. Those test tubes do come in handy when trying to figure things out, don't they? :thumb001:

I think the English are more Germanic than people think.

[Gooding]

I think the English are more Germanic than people think.

I agree, Maximus. I'd like to explore just how deeply ingrained and active the Germanic connection between England and the Low Countries/ Germany actually is.

[Gooding]

So let it be written, so let it be done! I found a link dealing with Frisians and Anglo- Saxons: http://webspace.webring.com/people/hf/farthegn/The_Frisian_Connection.html, http://www.wilcuma.org.uk/pattern.asp?pageid=50, http://www.englisc-gateway.com/bbs/topic/16550-the-settlement-of-low-dutch-in-england/, http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/EnglandConquest01.htm, http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/7/1008.long, http://www.protogermanic.com/2011/07/anglo-saxons-and-their-language-who.html, http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/frisians.html ,http://www.omniglot.com/writing/oldenglish.htm, http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/anglo_saxons/, http://www.regia.org/research/history/history.htm.

[Äijä]

Finnish I1, can it descend from pre-Saxon ancestry?

It has gone almost year since I last time visited FtDna's I1-project, being quite tired of the usual pathetic ydna discussion.
Now after a little pushed by another Finnish guy I took a look and noticed that the SNP-based phylogenetic tree shows more upstream matches for Finnish Bothnians than a year ago.
Most of new matches are from England which obviously mirrors the testing activity more than enything else.
Anyway, it looks like the Bothnian I1 descends from something like Anglo-Saxons, but we have to date it, accoring to the clade age (made by Ken Nordtvedt and others), to the time before Anglo-Saxon British migrations.
Here are those connected directly to Bothnians, They form an own class between all other I1 branches and Bothnians.

http://terheninenmaa.blogspot.fi/



https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F4AA4E5496D3BF58!6922&ithint=file%2cpptx&app=PowerPoint&authkey=!AO-8VZtzKRuQf8Y

[Northerner]

I have always imagined them to be fairly close.

[Jackson]

I think the English are more Germanic than people think.

The most recent study suggests around 33% or so is Anglo-Saxon or likely Anglo-Saxon related in central & South England, although if you include a few other minor Germanic sources we're up to around 45% Germanic or so. But Germanic and Celtic populations are autosomally quite similar so even despite that the English are not that different from the Welsh, Scottish or Irish, just somewhat closer to continental populations.

[Gooding]

The most recent study suggests around 33% or so is Anglo-Saxon or likely Anglo-Saxon related in central & South England, although if you include a few other minor Germanic sources we're up to around 45% Germanic or so. But Germanic and Celtic populations are autosomally quite similar so even despite that the English are not that different from the Welsh, Scottish or Irish, just somewhat closer to continental populations.

How interesting.. so, would the remaining 55% of the English population be Celtic and pre- Celtic genetically? What population would the pre- Celtic element fit into, I wonder?

[Jackson]

How interesting.. so, would the remaining 55% of the English population be Celtic and pre- Celtic genetically? What population would the pre- Celtic element fit into, I wonder?

Yeah i think the rest is mainly 'Celtic', probably a few percent from other places here and there as well wouldn't be surprising. Well the pre-Celtic element was actually probably like the Celtic element, it seems modern NW/north Euro type people have been in the region from around the latest Neolithic, copper age etc, so it may be that another language group (now lost perhaps) that was related to Celtic was spoken here before (ie in the Indo-European language group) or it's possible that a pre-Indo-European language was spoken, don't know which would be likely.

Certainly prior to around the advent of the Bell Beaker cultural network i would have thought they spoke a non-Indo-European language, and genetically it seems the people would have been quite southern-European like, closest to Sardinians. I mean basically the modern inhabitants of northern Europe are like easterners compared with the pre-Neolithic inhabitants of the same area.

Although we need aDNA from Britain in those relevant periods, the people of the Unetice and Urnfield cultures in Germany (predecessors of Hallstatt and probably speaking something Celtic-like across at least some of the extent of that cultural grouping) were basically like modern northern Europeans. So it seems unlikely that Britain was somehow completely different to the continent given that Bell Beaker individuals in Germany were (if you average the entire group) more or less like modern northern Germans, and both Rhenish and Atlantic Bell Beaker networks extended to Britain, and the modern populations of both areas are similar to each other, and both have Celtic links (excluding northernmost Germany perhaps).

[Grace O'Malley]

No, we are closer to the Germans than we are to the Spanish. As I posted before, my Eurogenes K13 results:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Dutch 2.43
2 Orcadian 2.68
3 Irish 2.91
4 Danish 3.23
5 West_Scottish 3.64
6 Southeast_English 3.84
7 North_German 4.2
8 Southwest_English 4.48
9 Norwegian 4.79
10 Swedish 6.93
11 South_Dutch 7.34
12 West_German 8.23
13 North_Swedish 13.12
14 Austrian 13.13
15 French 13.14
16 East_German 13.54
17 Hungarian 17.71
18 Spanish_Cataluna 20.48
19 Southwest_Finnish 21.14
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 21.68

Also I'm not fully English, but part Irish: fully English people may well be even closer to Germans than I am.

Your K13 is so similar to mine Catkin but you're a bit closer to all groups than me possibly due to England being a bit closer to the continent and Ireland a bit more isolated. I'm very close to North Dutch, Scots and Norwegians on most calculators. I can understand the Scots and Norse but what is it with the North Dutch that makes them close to the Irish. Anyone got any ideas on that?

Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_Dutch @ 3.229219
2 Irish @ 3.414209
3 Norwegian @ 3.969620
4 West_Scottish @ 4.154647
5 Danish @ 4.244350
6 Orcadian @ 4.255836
7 North_German @ 5.967971
8 Southeast_English @ 6.869505
9 Southwest_English @ 6.894413
10 Swedish @ 7.120302
11 South_Dutch @ 11.453406
12 West_German @ 12.494723
13 North_Swedish @ 14.270684
14 Austrian @ 17.248459
15 East_German @ 17.379379
16 French @ 17.922009
17 Hungarian @ 22.268965
18 Southwest_Finnish @ 23.637180
19 Spanish_Cataluna @ 26.201269
20 Southwest_French @ 27.184601

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Norwegian @ 2.484299


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% North_Dutch +25% Norwegian @ 2.481593


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + Norwegian @ 2.481593
2 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 2.484299
3 Irish + Norwegian + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.516863
4 Irish + North_Dutch + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.542499
5 Irish + North_German + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.579951
6 North_German + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.591957
7 Norwegian + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.612724
8 Irish + Irish + North_German + Norwegian @ 2.622498
9 Irish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 2.633069
10 Danish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 2.649204
11 Irish + Irish + Irish + Swedish @ 2.650396
12 Irish + Irish + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 2.662073
13 North_Dutch + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.664009
14 Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Norwegian @ 2.674993
15 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.680257
16 Danish + Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.693465
17 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch @ 2.712084
18 North_Dutch + Norwegian + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.718063
19 Irish + North_Dutch + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 2.736863
20 Irish + North_Dutch + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 2.741791

[Grace O'Malley]

Well, here are my Eurogenes 13 results, although my being an American might have " tainted" them somewhat, a good part of my family has been English for centuries.. Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southeast_English @ 3.466228
2 Orcadian @ 4.705978
3 Southwest_English @ 5.060140
4 South_Dutch @ 5.245272
5 North_Dutch @ 5.299627
6 Danish @ 5.814469
7 Irish @ 5.853244
8 North_German @ 5.922781
9 West_Scottish @ 6.513793
10 West_German @ 6.742904
11 Norwegian @ 7.926299
12 Swedish @ 9.455050
13 French @ 11.612298
14 Austrian @ 12.926639
15 East_German @ 13.513567
16 North_Swedish @ 15.459769
17 Hungarian @ 18.460772
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 19.822258
19 Southwest_French @ 20.750923
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 21.080109

I am a lot less English than Catkin is, obviously. :)

You are closer to English than me. It is interesting that you are a bit further than the Scots though but you have Orcadian there so I suppose that covers it.

[Neon Knight]

Your K13 is so similar to mine Catkin but you're a bit closer to all groups than me possibly due to England being a bit closer to the continent and Ireland a bit more isolated. I'm very close to North Dutch, Scots and Norwegians on most calculators. I can understand the Scots and Norse but what is it with the North Dutch that makes them close to the Irish. Anyone got any ideas on that?
Remember that, to begin with, the 23andMe conservative estimate is only 90% accurate and the data for the GEDmacth populations will also not be 100% accurate, so there is probably enough room for error there to explain why people with very similar ancestry get different matches to nearby populations. For people with fairly homogenous ancestry GEDmatch can put them in the right general area but I think it is obviously not good enough to be specific. For people with mixed ancestry the system pretty much breaks down altogether.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

You are closer to English than me. It is interesting that you are a bit further than the Scots though but you have Orcadian there so I suppose that covers it.

Gooding is the most English person here and he ain't even English

[Neon Knight]

How interesting.. so, would the remaining 55% of the English population be Celtic and pre-Celtic genetically?At least 60% of English ancestry is Celtic (Briton), and a safe guess would be 75%.

[Neon Knight]

The most recent study suggests around 33% or so is Anglo-Saxon or likely Anglo-Saxon related in central & South England, although if you include a few other minor Germanic sources we're up to around 45% Germanic or so. But Germanic and Celtic populations are autosomally quite similar so even despite that the English are not that different from the Welsh, Scottish or Irish, just somewhat closer to continental populations.
From the PotBI pie charts I don't see how the English can be closer to any continentals than to Scots. The Welsh, just maybe, but I'm sceptical there too.

[Catkin]

Your K13 is so similar to mine Catkin but you're a bit closer to all groups than me possibly due to England being a bit closer to the continent and Ireland a bit more isolated. I'm very close to North Dutch, Scots and Norwegians on most calculators. I can understand the Scots and Norse but what is it with the North Dutch that makes them close to the Irish. Anyone got any ideas on that?


Yes, our results are very similar for this :). Actually our results are closer than my mum's are even to her brother's :D. I just score closer to Danes than Norwegians on most tests, while you're the other way around, which makes sense with me being slightly south shifted compared to you. I really don't understand the North Dutch either, they seem to fit right in there with the Scots and Irish, and away from the English.

[Jackson]

From the PotBI pie charts I don't see how the English can be closer to any continentals than to Scots. The Welsh, just maybe, but I'm sceptical there too.

No i mean relatively closer to them than the other isles populations are. :P

[Gooding]

Gooding is the most English person here and he ain't even English

I'm just as English descended as any other old time Virginian! In fact, I settled that survey business by putting English, Scots- Irish. Mom can do Scots- Irish, French and Dad can do English, German ( he's 1/16 German). I'm largely English descended with Scots- Irish following, so I rested my conscience by putting those two down.

[StonyArabia]

genetically they are pretty much the same

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I'm just as English descended as any other old time Virginian! In fact, I settled that survey business by putting English, Scots- Irish. Mom can do Scots- Irish, French and Dad can do English, German ( he's 1/16 German). I'm largely English descended with Scots- Irish following, so I rested my conscience by putting those two down.

By ain't even English I meant you're not even an English national, but more English than the English nationals are here!

[Gooding]

By ain't even English I meant you're not even an English national, but more English than the English nationals are here!

Yeah, it seems that my ancestors didn't get out much. :p

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Yeah, it seems that my ancestors didn't get out much. :p

Well you got Cajun ancestors which I think is really cool.

[Gooding]

Well you got Cajun ancestors which I think is really cool.

I think so, too. :) I took out the British and French because I thought that was an oversimplification and I'm just 1/8 Cajun. I thought I'd do blood quanta instead, go with what I am mostly and also use the following ethnicity. French Cajun would have been third down the line.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I think so, too. :) I took out the British and French because I thought that was an oversimplification and I'm just 1/8 Cajun. I thought I'd do blood quanta instead, go with what I am mostly and also use the following ethnicity. French Cajun would have been third down the line.

No doubt you made the right decision. I wouldn't have put it if I was an eighth Cajun either, I don't think.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I think so, too. :) I took out the British and French because I thought that was an oversimplification and I'm just 1/8 Cajun. I thought I'd do blood quanta instead, go with what I am mostly and also use the following ethnicity. French Cajun would have been third down the line.

That's the best way to do it, by which blood you have most of :) remember I did the math and figured I'd put Irish/German.

[Gooding]

No doubt you made the right decision. I wouldn't have put it if I was an eighth Cajun either, I don't think.

I keep typing in " Gooding" in my name slot.. I'm wondering whether or not I shouldn't just ask for my old handle back.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

I keep typing in " Gooding" in my name slot.. I'm wondering whether or not I shouldn't just ask for my old handle back.

LOL! That's up to you. I like both names :thumb001:

sometimes I wonder if I want Maximus back.

[Gooding]

LOL! That's up to you. I like both names :thumb001:

sometimes I wonder if I want Maximus back.

Thanks. :) I think I'll see how many more times I put Gooding in three or four times before I ask an admin to change it. Hey, the name might stick, you never know. :)

[Gooding]

Edit, double post.

[Gooding]

I'm just as English descended as any other old time Virginian! In fact, I settled that survey business by putting English, Scots- Irish. Mom can do Scots- Irish, French and Dad can do English, German ( he's 1/16 German). I'm largely English descended with Scots- Irish following, so I rested my conscience by putting those two down.

:lol: God bless my Dad. He just put down English. I brought the German thing up and he just looked at me and laughed.