Proto-Shaman
05-13-2015, 07:53 PM
Research article
Evidence that a West-East admixed population lived in the Tarim Basin as early as the early Bronze Age (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7007/8/15)
Chunxiang Li, Hongjie Li, Yinqiu Cui, Chengzhi Xie, Dawei Cai, Wenying Li, Victor H Mair, Zhi Xu, Quanchao Zhang, Idelisi Abuduresule, Li Jin, Hong Zhu and Hui Zhou*
BMC Biology 2010, 8:15 doi:10.1186/1741-7007-8-15
Dravidian Origin of Xiaohe R1a-Z93 (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7007/8/15/comments#2192698)
Clyde Winters (2014-08-08 16:45) Uthman dan Fodio Institute
Hui Zhou suggest that the origin of the Xiaohe mummies are of Indo-European origin. In the main article the authors claim that Xiaohe “is different from any other archaeological site of the same period anywhere in the world”. Yet now Hui says the Xiaohe was similar to the Afanaseivo culture.
There is no archaeological or genetic evidence linking the Xiaohe and Afanaseivo cultures. The Afanaseivo culture is characterized by chariots, pottery, timber chamber and rectangular stone enclosure burials, inhumation and creamation. The Afanasievo culture never reached the Tarim Basin.
The Xiaohe and Afanaseivo cultures are incongruent. The Xiaohe culture lacked pottery, but include huge phallus posts, coffins and mummies.
Hui acknolwedges that although Dravidians carry R1a, mtDNA H,K,C4 and M, he claims that these lineages are of western European origin, but there is no evidence of Indo-Europeans in Tarim Basin before 500BC. Although there is no evidence of western Eurasians in Central Asia, there is abundant evidence of Dravidian speakers in the region [8-10]. The Dravidian speakers left placenames throughout Central Asia, and is the substratum language in Tocharian, Mongolian and Chinese [8-10]. Dravidians also founded the Anyang-Shang Dynasty of China [8].
The Dravidians founded the Indus Valley civilization (IVC) [10,13-15]. The IVC sites, like Xiaohe were built along rivers. IVC sites extended from the Indus Valley to Shortughai (c.2500-1800 BC) on the Oxus river and other parts of Bactria, before the rise of the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC). The BMAC was probably of Elamite inspiration. BMAC sites of Altyn Depe and Shahr-i-Sakhta we find terracotta statuettes with Proto-Elamite and linear Sumerian writing, hybrid Indus-BMAC pieces; and identical lithic drill heads from Shahr-i-Sakhta and the IVC site of Chanhu-Daro.
The Dravidian speakers originated in Africa, in modern day Sudan [11-12]. They expanded into Iran, on into the Indus Valley, across Central Asia into the Tarim Basin and China [8-10]. The spread of the Dravidians into Eurasia is not only suggested by archaeological and epigraphic evidence , there are Islands of Dravidian speakers in Afghanistan, Iran, Yugoslavia, Russia and Pakistan; 300,000 Brahui speaking Dravidians live in Qualat, Hairpur and Hyderabad [10].
Most of the placenames in the IVC are of Dravidian origin. R. Balakrsihnan, points out that the names associated with Indus Valley sites are related to the Dravidian term for fortified town [15]. Dravidian placenames, Dravidian speaking population, red-and-black pottery all point to a Dravidian origin for the Harappan civilization [14].
The name of the Tocharian speakers of Central Asia was: Kushana. The Kushana were Dravidian speakers forced out of China by the ancient Hua and Han tribes of China [10].
The Tocharians/Kushana came from Xinjiang. They were not IE speakers. In the Chinese literature they were called Kuishuang and Yueh chih. The Kushana are related to the Qijia culture of Xiajiang, not Afanasievo culture of the Steppes. The Qijia culture existed from the upper Weishui Valley in the east, the Huangshui Valley of Qijia in the West, Ningxia and the westernmost inner Mongolia in the north. Qijia pottery signs are analogous to those found in the Harappan writing and on IVC pottery[10].
R1a probably originated in Africa and was spread across Central Asia by Dravidian speakers. Other researchers believe R1a orginated in India [3,5-6].
Hui Zhou claims that R1a-Z93 is probably of western origin, but, this is highly unlikely. Underhill et al makes it clear that R1a individuals are separated into European (Z282) and Asian (Z93 and M746) R1a branches. No R1a-Z282 clade is found in Asia [7].
Although R1a is not associated with a particular culture, it is a dominant y-haplogroup in India [3,5-6]. The downstream subclades of Z93 or R1a1a1h are 294, L342.2 and L657 [7].
R1a-Z93 has high frequencies in areas formerly settled by Dravidian speakers, or where Dravidian speakers continue to inhabit. Carriers of Z93 in addition to Dravidian speakers, are the Ashkenazi Jews, Mongols, Hungarian Roma, Uzbez and Malaysian Tamil speakers [3]. Researchers claim that the discovery of R1a-Z93 among the Roma, is further support of the Indian origin of this population [3].
Underhill et al has numerous maps documenting the location of R1a1a1h (Z93) [7]. The Z93 y-chromosome is spread from Egypt-Sudan, all the way to Siberia in western Europe, South Asia and Malaysians in Southeast Asia [3,7]. The location of Z93 match the Dravidian spread from Africa to Eurasia [10-12].
In summary, there is no genetic or archaeological evidence for Indo-Europeans in the Tarim Basin before 500BC. On the other hand, we do have archaeological, toponymic and historical evidence of Dravidians entering Central Asia on their way to China,and later being forced back into Central Asia from Xinjiang, where they founded the Kushana/Tocharian civilization.
The geographical location of R1a-Z93 corresponds to the ancient and modern centers of Dravidian habitation [8-10]. The IVC sites in Central Asia suggest that the Dravidians deposited Z93 as they spread into Russia and China. The archaeological ,genomic (mtDNA H,K and etc., that are common to Dravidian speakers) and demographic evidence makes it clear that the Xiaohe mummies carry R1a, the clade was Z93, because there is no evidence of western Europeans in Central Asia until after 500 BC, thousands of years after the Dravidian speakers had settled the area.
References:
1.Francefort,Henri Paul. 1987a. "La Civilisation de l'Indus aux rives de l'Oxus". ARCHAEOLOGIA (December):44 55.
2.____________________. 1987b. "Aux frontieres de la civilization de l'Indus". DOSSIERS HISTOIRE ET ARCHAEOLOGIE, no. 11: 80 81.
3.Horolma Pamjav, Tibor Fehér, Endre Németh and Zsolt Pádár.(2012). Brief communication: New Y-chromosome binary markers improve phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup R1a1. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 149(4):611-15. Retrieved 7/31/2014. https://www.familytreedna.com/PDF/New_Y_Chromosome_Binary_Markers_Improve_Phylogenet ic_Resolution_Within_Haplogroup_R1a1.pdf
4. IL Rozhanskii, AA Klyosov . (2012). Haplogroup R1a, its subclades and branches in Europe during the last 9,000 years. Advances in Anthropology, 2(3): 139-56 . http://file.scirp.org/Html/21698.html
5. Sengupta S, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Mehdi SQ, Edmonds CA,Chow CE, Lin AA, Mitra M, Sil SK, Ramesh A, Usha Rani MV, Thakur CM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Majumder PP, Underhill PA.( 2006). Polarity and temporality of high-resolution Y-chromosome distributions in India identify both indigenous and exogenous expansions and reveal minor genetic influence of Central Asian pastoralists. Am J Hum Genet 78:202–221.
6. Sharma S, Rai E, Sharma P, Jena M, Singh S, Darvishi K, Bhat AK, Bhanwer AJ, Tiwari PK, Bamezai RN. (2009). The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system. J Hum Genet 54:47–55.
7. Underhill,P et al (2014).The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a. European Journal of Human Genetics advance online publication 26 March 2014; doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2014.50. Retrieved 7/31/2014. http://thebigone.stanford.edu/papers/Underhill_phylogenetic_March-2014.pdf
8.Winters,C.1985. "The Far Eastern Origin of the Tamils". JOURNAL OF TAMIL STUDIES, no.27:65 92.
9. Winters,C. 1989."Review on Dr. Asko Parpola's 'Coming of the Aryas".INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL DRAVIDIAN LINGUISTIC, 18(2):98 127.
10. Winters C.1990."The Dravido Harappan Colonization of Central Asia". CENTRAL ASIATIC JOURNAL, 34(1 2):120 144.
11. Winters C. (2007). Did the Dravidian SpeakersOriginate in Africa? Bio Essays, 27(5):497-498.Retrieved 11/8/2010:http://www.beforebc.de/all_africa/AreDravidiansAfricanOrigin.pdf.
12. Winters C. (2008).Origin and Spread of the Dravidians. International Journal of Human Genetics. 8(4): 425-429 Retrieved 11/8/2010: http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/IJHG/IJHG-08-0-000-000-2008-Web/IJHG-08-4-317-368-2008-Abst-PDF/IJHG-08-4-325-08-362-Winder-C/IJHG-08-4-325-08-362-Winder-C-Tt.pdf.
13. Winters,C. 2009. Literacy Existed in the Indus Valley .Science Magazine. E-Letter. (2June 2009) http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/eletters/324/5931/1165
14. Winters,C. (2012).Dravidian is the language of the Indus writing . Current Science, 103(10) :1220-25. www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/103/10/1220.pdf
15. R. Balakrsihnan, in the High-West: Low-East Dichotomy of Indus Cities: A Dravidian Paradigm, Bulletin of the Indus Research Centre, no.3, December.
___________________________
Ok guys, what do you think?
Evidence that a West-East admixed population lived in the Tarim Basin as early as the early Bronze Age (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7007/8/15)
Chunxiang Li, Hongjie Li, Yinqiu Cui, Chengzhi Xie, Dawei Cai, Wenying Li, Victor H Mair, Zhi Xu, Quanchao Zhang, Idelisi Abuduresule, Li Jin, Hong Zhu and Hui Zhou*
BMC Biology 2010, 8:15 doi:10.1186/1741-7007-8-15
Dravidian Origin of Xiaohe R1a-Z93 (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7007/8/15/comments#2192698)
Clyde Winters (2014-08-08 16:45) Uthman dan Fodio Institute
Hui Zhou suggest that the origin of the Xiaohe mummies are of Indo-European origin. In the main article the authors claim that Xiaohe “is different from any other archaeological site of the same period anywhere in the world”. Yet now Hui says the Xiaohe was similar to the Afanaseivo culture.
There is no archaeological or genetic evidence linking the Xiaohe and Afanaseivo cultures. The Afanaseivo culture is characterized by chariots, pottery, timber chamber and rectangular stone enclosure burials, inhumation and creamation. The Afanasievo culture never reached the Tarim Basin.
The Xiaohe and Afanaseivo cultures are incongruent. The Xiaohe culture lacked pottery, but include huge phallus posts, coffins and mummies.
Hui acknolwedges that although Dravidians carry R1a, mtDNA H,K,C4 and M, he claims that these lineages are of western European origin, but there is no evidence of Indo-Europeans in Tarim Basin before 500BC. Although there is no evidence of western Eurasians in Central Asia, there is abundant evidence of Dravidian speakers in the region [8-10]. The Dravidian speakers left placenames throughout Central Asia, and is the substratum language in Tocharian, Mongolian and Chinese [8-10]. Dravidians also founded the Anyang-Shang Dynasty of China [8].
The Dravidians founded the Indus Valley civilization (IVC) [10,13-15]. The IVC sites, like Xiaohe were built along rivers. IVC sites extended from the Indus Valley to Shortughai (c.2500-1800 BC) on the Oxus river and other parts of Bactria, before the rise of the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC). The BMAC was probably of Elamite inspiration. BMAC sites of Altyn Depe and Shahr-i-Sakhta we find terracotta statuettes with Proto-Elamite and linear Sumerian writing, hybrid Indus-BMAC pieces; and identical lithic drill heads from Shahr-i-Sakhta and the IVC site of Chanhu-Daro.
The Dravidian speakers originated in Africa, in modern day Sudan [11-12]. They expanded into Iran, on into the Indus Valley, across Central Asia into the Tarim Basin and China [8-10]. The spread of the Dravidians into Eurasia is not only suggested by archaeological and epigraphic evidence , there are Islands of Dravidian speakers in Afghanistan, Iran, Yugoslavia, Russia and Pakistan; 300,000 Brahui speaking Dravidians live in Qualat, Hairpur and Hyderabad [10].
Most of the placenames in the IVC are of Dravidian origin. R. Balakrsihnan, points out that the names associated with Indus Valley sites are related to the Dravidian term for fortified town [15]. Dravidian placenames, Dravidian speaking population, red-and-black pottery all point to a Dravidian origin for the Harappan civilization [14].
The name of the Tocharian speakers of Central Asia was: Kushana. The Kushana were Dravidian speakers forced out of China by the ancient Hua and Han tribes of China [10].
The Tocharians/Kushana came from Xinjiang. They were not IE speakers. In the Chinese literature they were called Kuishuang and Yueh chih. The Kushana are related to the Qijia culture of Xiajiang, not Afanasievo culture of the Steppes. The Qijia culture existed from the upper Weishui Valley in the east, the Huangshui Valley of Qijia in the West, Ningxia and the westernmost inner Mongolia in the north. Qijia pottery signs are analogous to those found in the Harappan writing and on IVC pottery[10].
R1a probably originated in Africa and was spread across Central Asia by Dravidian speakers. Other researchers believe R1a orginated in India [3,5-6].
Hui Zhou claims that R1a-Z93 is probably of western origin, but, this is highly unlikely. Underhill et al makes it clear that R1a individuals are separated into European (Z282) and Asian (Z93 and M746) R1a branches. No R1a-Z282 clade is found in Asia [7].
Although R1a is not associated with a particular culture, it is a dominant y-haplogroup in India [3,5-6]. The downstream subclades of Z93 or R1a1a1h are 294, L342.2 and L657 [7].
R1a-Z93 has high frequencies in areas formerly settled by Dravidian speakers, or where Dravidian speakers continue to inhabit. Carriers of Z93 in addition to Dravidian speakers, are the Ashkenazi Jews, Mongols, Hungarian Roma, Uzbez and Malaysian Tamil speakers [3]. Researchers claim that the discovery of R1a-Z93 among the Roma, is further support of the Indian origin of this population [3].
Underhill et al has numerous maps documenting the location of R1a1a1h (Z93) [7]. The Z93 y-chromosome is spread from Egypt-Sudan, all the way to Siberia in western Europe, South Asia and Malaysians in Southeast Asia [3,7]. The location of Z93 match the Dravidian spread from Africa to Eurasia [10-12].
In summary, there is no genetic or archaeological evidence for Indo-Europeans in the Tarim Basin before 500BC. On the other hand, we do have archaeological, toponymic and historical evidence of Dravidians entering Central Asia on their way to China,and later being forced back into Central Asia from Xinjiang, where they founded the Kushana/Tocharian civilization.
The geographical location of R1a-Z93 corresponds to the ancient and modern centers of Dravidian habitation [8-10]. The IVC sites in Central Asia suggest that the Dravidians deposited Z93 as they spread into Russia and China. The archaeological ,genomic (mtDNA H,K and etc., that are common to Dravidian speakers) and demographic evidence makes it clear that the Xiaohe mummies carry R1a, the clade was Z93, because there is no evidence of western Europeans in Central Asia until after 500 BC, thousands of years after the Dravidian speakers had settled the area.
References:
1.Francefort,Henri Paul. 1987a. "La Civilisation de l'Indus aux rives de l'Oxus". ARCHAEOLOGIA (December):44 55.
2.____________________. 1987b. "Aux frontieres de la civilization de l'Indus". DOSSIERS HISTOIRE ET ARCHAEOLOGIE, no. 11: 80 81.
3.Horolma Pamjav, Tibor Fehér, Endre Németh and Zsolt Pádár.(2012). Brief communication: New Y-chromosome binary markers improve phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup R1a1. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 149(4):611-15. Retrieved 7/31/2014. https://www.familytreedna.com/PDF/New_Y_Chromosome_Binary_Markers_Improve_Phylogenet ic_Resolution_Within_Haplogroup_R1a1.pdf
4. IL Rozhanskii, AA Klyosov . (2012). Haplogroup R1a, its subclades and branches in Europe during the last 9,000 years. Advances in Anthropology, 2(3): 139-56 . http://file.scirp.org/Html/21698.html
5. Sengupta S, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Mehdi SQ, Edmonds CA,Chow CE, Lin AA, Mitra M, Sil SK, Ramesh A, Usha Rani MV, Thakur CM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Majumder PP, Underhill PA.( 2006). Polarity and temporality of high-resolution Y-chromosome distributions in India identify both indigenous and exogenous expansions and reveal minor genetic influence of Central Asian pastoralists. Am J Hum Genet 78:202–221.
6. Sharma S, Rai E, Sharma P, Jena M, Singh S, Darvishi K, Bhat AK, Bhanwer AJ, Tiwari PK, Bamezai RN. (2009). The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system. J Hum Genet 54:47–55.
7. Underhill,P et al (2014).The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a. European Journal of Human Genetics advance online publication 26 March 2014; doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2014.50. Retrieved 7/31/2014. http://thebigone.stanford.edu/papers/Underhill_phylogenetic_March-2014.pdf
8.Winters,C.1985. "The Far Eastern Origin of the Tamils". JOURNAL OF TAMIL STUDIES, no.27:65 92.
9. Winters,C. 1989."Review on Dr. Asko Parpola's 'Coming of the Aryas".INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL DRAVIDIAN LINGUISTIC, 18(2):98 127.
10. Winters C.1990."The Dravido Harappan Colonization of Central Asia". CENTRAL ASIATIC JOURNAL, 34(1 2):120 144.
11. Winters C. (2007). Did the Dravidian SpeakersOriginate in Africa? Bio Essays, 27(5):497-498.Retrieved 11/8/2010:http://www.beforebc.de/all_africa/AreDravidiansAfricanOrigin.pdf.
12. Winters C. (2008).Origin and Spread of the Dravidians. International Journal of Human Genetics. 8(4): 425-429 Retrieved 11/8/2010: http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/IJHG/IJHG-08-0-000-000-2008-Web/IJHG-08-4-317-368-2008-Abst-PDF/IJHG-08-4-325-08-362-Winder-C/IJHG-08-4-325-08-362-Winder-C-Tt.pdf.
13. Winters,C. 2009. Literacy Existed in the Indus Valley .Science Magazine. E-Letter. (2June 2009) http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/eletters/324/5931/1165
14. Winters,C. (2012).Dravidian is the language of the Indus writing . Current Science, 103(10) :1220-25. www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/103/10/1220.pdf
15. R. Balakrsihnan, in the High-West: Low-East Dichotomy of Indus Cities: A Dravidian Paradigm, Bulletin of the Indus Research Centre, no.3, December.
___________________________
Ok guys, what do you think?