Classify Nowosiolka skull "neanderthal in chainmail"

[Prisoner Of Ice]

http://www.ianjuby.org/neanderthal/page25.jpg

[Prisoner Of Ice]

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/armor.html



Jim Foley on talk.origins responded to this article. Basically his logic goes like this:

1. The account about Neandertal and chain mail armor is sketchy.
[/b]2. Neandertals did not survive into the Middle Ages.[/b]
3. No competent modern researcher, if he examined the fossils, would make that assertion.
4. Therefore, this is a case of an early researcher misidentifying a fossil as a Neandertal.

In doing this, he commits two logical fallacies. He assumes what he wants to prove, and he appeals to whether or not something is true based on if an idea agrees with "modern" research. He implies that if a person comes to such a conclusion nowadays, he would be an incompetent researcher. Immediately he dismisses the possibility that the skeleton was Neandertal solely on the fact that it was found near chain mail armor. I would say that we would have to have the actual fossils in hand to come to that conclusion for certain.


I have to laugh. I mean really. You just make a big assumption, then accuse the other guy of exactly that.

It's actually pretty neanderthaline, especially that nose, but it also has more 'modern' features. Looks like an intermediate really, similar to some predmost skulls perhaps.

[Linebacker]

The skull is of a modern man with very archaic features.

In a more detailed picture of this skull it is clearly visible its Sapiens.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jfj_nuXe_uQ/Tzu0tUmY66I/AAAAAAAANOU/UYRikX0_HI0/s400/cran.gif

Such a browridge is not uncommon even today and a lot of people still have them.

[Amud]

Yeah, it's not actually a full Neanderthal, just an archaic-looking modern human with Neanderthal influence. It looks close to Predmost 3:

http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/439456/350wm/C0112482-Prehistoric_human_skull_Predmosti_3_-SPL.jpg
http://www.modernhumanorigins.net/hominids/predmosti3lside.jpg


Here's a good comparison:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1HRM3MVlMdk/U8whhV2bq9I/AAAAAAAAA4M/fLbg4WchJQs/s1600/neanmodern.jpg


Even today, there are people who are at least that archaic

https://rey55.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/glenn-seaborg.jpg

[Amud]

Another very important and usually overlooked difference between Neanderthals and modern human skull is the curvature of the midfacial bones. Look right under the cheekbone and see how it connects to the upper jaw. In Neanderthal skulls, the cheekbone connects to the upper jaw with a very smooth, almost straight curve. In modern humans, the connection is more cut away and forms a sharp angle.

The Nowosiolka skull has a hyper-modern shape in this regard.

I drew some lines to illustrate what I mean:

57682

[Rædwald]

Neanderthal did not survive into the middle ages :rolleyes:

http://www.independent.co.uk/migration_catalog/article5287500.ece/alternates/w620/Chabal.jpeg

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Hmm, mine seem to be very different to both. The inner part is actually thick bone bulging outward.

[Amud]

Why the fuck would Ultra thumb down my posts in this thread? Some people, I swear...