Degrees of citizenship and rights for the European Union inhabitants

[Nurzat]

I think the supreme language of the European Union should be Latin and the official name should stay untranslated to Unio Europaea.

Also, I think inhabitants of Unio Europaea should be split into:

Civis Europaeus (plural Cives Europaei) - European citizens, only for full Europeans and their descendants around the world; with genetic testing it is possible to assert one's Europeanness; this class has full rights and support

Civis toleratus (plural Cives tolerati) - European citizens of full or part non-European descent; this class is formed of non-Euros that already have citizenship of one of the Unio Europaea countries so they cannot be denied the European citizenship; but they are to be imposed some restrictions upon, like: no right to vote in Europe, higher taxes (with their presence they occupy land and obtain money from the European system, that cannot be obtained by native Europeans instead) and the possibility to deny them citizenship in case of serious felonies; also, one Civis Europaeus cannot marry or have kids to one Civis toleratus before the age of 26 for women and 30 for men (decreasing the chances of bad teenage decisions; some European countries already have this law I think); also, this category would be under demographic monitoring, with a law saying how many kids they can have and with forced abortion if the case, or, by their choice, expulsion

habitans extraneus (plural habitantes extranei) - foreigners, inhabitants of Europe of non-European descent and without European citizenship; higher taxes than the tolerati, no right to marry or have kids to either Europaei or tolerati, no right or at least restrictions (based on financial status) to have kids in Europe; expulsion from Europe in case of proved felonies

Gypsies and Jews and other such groups with a very old European presence would probably go under Europaei category.

what do you think?

[Wadaad]

Should also bring back imperators in that case

[BeerBaron]

I think the supreme language of the European Union should be Latin and the official name should stay untranslated to Unio Europaea.

Also, I think inhabitants of Unio Europaea should be split into:

Civis Europaeus (plural Cives Europaei) - European citizens, only for full Europeans and their descendants around the world; with genetic testing it is possible to assert one's Europeanness; this class has full rights and support

Gypsies and Jews and other such groups with a very old European presence would probably go under Europaei category.

what do you think?

so you want to heavily segregate, while simultaneously giving arguably the 2 biggest problem groups historically full european rights?

logic failure

[Nurzat]

Should also bring back imperators in that case

it would only protect Europe from bankruptcy. in the territory little would be changed, except: they would not vote (and voting doesn't change a thing now, does it), they would not have many kids (for their and their kids' protection, after all, since we know what happens to poor families with many kids, not only among non-Euros) and they would pay slightly higher taxes, a sort of permission to stay tax although it would not be that. nothing discriminatory I think. a lot of democratic states protect their citizens from foreign citizens with a lot of types of laws and visas. Europe seems the least protective with its citizens (if not really exposing its citizens to a lot of harm, socially and economically)

[Nurzat]

so you want to heavily segregate, while simultaneously giving arguably the 2 biggest problem groups historically full european rights?

logic failure

these groups mixed with Europeans for such a long time and in such a manner that virtually all Jews and Gypsies fall genetically in the European borders. and culturally, they are fully absorbed (I don't see difference between lowest classes of any nation and Gypsies). so, after all, they're European. but beyond this, these laws would protect against a wrongly made immigration policy of Europe (if Europe has any - it doesn't seem to have)

[BeerBaron]

these groups mixed with Europeans for such a long time and in such a manner that virtually all Jews and Gypsies fall genetically in the European borders. and culturally, they are fully absorbed (I don't see difference between lowest classes of any nation and Gypsies). so, after all, they're European. but beyond this, these laws would protect against a wrongly made immigration policy of Europe (if Europe has any - it doesn't seem to have)

If you think that gypsies don't differ, continental Europe disagrees with you, eastern europe especially, don't believe me, go call a white Romanian a gypsie and see what happens.

Tel Aviv also disagrees with you, they publish how Jews are in fact genetically different all the time.

Do you actually live in Continental Europe or are you just an American?

Gypsies are not at all culturally absorbed, that's one of the major problems with them, they (and jews) are tribal.

[Nurzat]

If you think that gypsies don't differ, continental Europe disagrees with you, eastern europe especially, don't believe me, go call a white Romanian a gypsie and see what happens.

Tel Aviv also disagrees with you, they publish how Jews are in fact genetically different all the time.

Do you actually live in Continental Europe or are you just an American?

Gypsies are not at all culturally absorbed, that's one of the major problems with them, they (and jews) are tribal.

OK, that's a touchy topic. this could be discussed and it's for the Europeans to decide after all. but as a general idea, I think the degrees in citizenship and rights best suit Europe's interests now. the details are details, some would stand, some not, but as a general rule, such a grading of citizenship and rights would be more than useful, I think

[Nurzat]

Should also bring back imperators in that case

there would be full citizenship granted to non-Euros in special cases, I suppose, for outstanding achievements (in medicine, arts, literature, science, academia etc; not in sports, though)

[BeerBaron]

OK, that's a touchy topic. this could be discussed and it's for the Europeans to decide after all. but as a general idea, I think the degrees in citizenship and rights best suit Europe's interests now. the details are details, some would stand, some not, but as a general rule, such a grading of citizenship and rights would be more than useful, I think

Ok, so you don't live within the EU, got it.

I don't disagree that degrees would be a good idea, but you are putting two of the most hated groups, especially gypsies, at the same level as europeans while saying they are culturally integrated, they aren't, and they are not. Gypsies are nomads, that originally came from India and cause massive problems everywhere in europe, they are worse than any group in north america, which is where i am assuming you are from.

[Nurzat]

Ok, so you don't live within the EU, got it.

I don't disagree that degrees would be a good idea, but you are putting two of the most hated groups, especially gypsies, at the same level as europeans while saying they are culturally integrated, they aren't, and they are not. Gypsies are nomads, that originally came from India and cause massive problems everywhere in europe, they are worse than any group in north america, which is where i am assuming you are from.

I am European from the European Union. OK, we'll stick to the idea of degrees in citizenship. as I've said, the Gypsy issue could be discussed separately, that's a sensitive topic. We could just neglect it in this thread further.

[Permafrost]

Renovatio imperii Romanorum

[BeerBaron]

I am European from the European Union. OK, we'll stick to the idea of degrees in citizenship. as I've said, the Gypsy issue could be discussed separately, that's a sensitive topic. We could just neglect it in this thread further.

I saw your post before you edited it, where you said you are "from the EU (from Romania actually)"

So, you either left the eu before you could speak or your parents are Roma, because no Romanian would ever say gypsies are integrated, hell they live in trash piles for christs sake.

[Nurzat]

I saw your post before you edited it, where you said you are "from the EU (from Romania actually)"

So, you either left the eu before you could speak or your parents are Roma, because no Romanian would ever say gypsies are integrated, hell they live in trash piles for christs sake.

I am actually from the Ukrainian native minority in the country (historically Slavic inhabited Northern places) where we don't have any Gypsy minority. anyway, Gypsies are for the most integrated in Romania and a good chunk of Romanians probably have some Gypsy ancestry (maybe at high as 5% of Romanians, I don't know). there are a lot of Gypsies not integrated though, but they are a minority within Gypsies themselves, just that they are always present in the news - and Brits love to put them as being representative for Romania. anyway, it's not the point of this discussion, I don't know why you insist on it, the main idea is the grading of the citizenship and rights in a manner that could actually be implemented

[BeerBaron]

I am actually from the Ukrainian native minority in the country (historically Slavic inhabited Northern places) where we don't have any Gypsy minority. anyway, Gypsies are for the most integrated in Romania and a good chunk of Romanians probably have some Gypsy ancestry (maybe at high as 5% of Romanians, I don't know). there are a lot of Gypsies not integrated though, but they are a minority within Gypsies themselves, just that they are always present in the news - and Brits love to put them as being representative for Romania. anyway, it's not the point of this discussion, I don't know why you insist on it, the main idea is the grading of the citizenship and rights in a manner that could actually be implemented

Ok fine, just regarding citizenship, you couldnt take current citizenship away, so realistically the only thing that "could" (wont) happen is making it tougher for immigrants to get things like permanent residence, and citizenship. There are to many exceptions and you cant pull citizenship, it has to be voluntarily renounced, and even then they really try not to do it. Some americans renounce theirs foe tax reasons and its not easy.

You "could" restrict the freedom of movement within the EU, but I doubt that will happen either.

The Canadian gov made it harder for people to marry for citizenship. If someone for example marries a Canadian and divorces within 3-5 years they are prosecuted for marriage fraud. There are lots of exceptions, but if you marry a foreign girl, you have to prove your entire relationship to the government. < in theory its a good step, but realistically it only hurts guys that marry girls from europe (eastern europe) or thialand and bring them to canada, and not the problem groups Chinese and Indians.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

these groups mixed with Europeans for such a long time and in such a manner that virtually all Jews and Gypsies fall genetically in the European borders. and culturally, they are fully absorbed (I don't see difference between lowest classes of any nation and Gypsies). so, after all, they're European. but beyond this, these laws would protect against a wrongly made immigration policy of Europe (if Europe has any - it doesn't seem to have)

IDK about Gypsies but Jews are more genetically Levantine than European, just a little bit. It's almost half and half. They are mixed with Euros but they are more Levantine. You fail as a right winger tbh.

[Anglojew]

I think the supreme language of the European Union should be Latin and the official name should stay untranslated to Unio Europaea.

Also, I think inhabitants of Unio Europaea should be split into:

Civis Europaeus (plural Cives Europaei) - European citizens, only for full Europeans and their descendants around the world; with genetic testing it is possible to assert one's Europeanness; this class has full rights and support

Civis toleratus (plural Cives tolerati) - European citizens of full or part non-European descent; this class is formed of non-Euros that already have citizenship of one of the Unio Europaea countries so they cannot be denied the European citizenship; but they are to be imposed some restrictions upon, like: no right to vote in Europe, higher taxes (with their presence they occupy land and obtain money from the European system, that cannot be obtained by native Europeans instead) and the possibility to deny them citizenship in case of serious felonies; also, one Civis Europaeus cannot marry or have kids to one Civis toleratus before the age of 26 for women and 30 for men (decreasing the chances of bad teenage decisions; some European countries already have this law I think); also, this category would be under demographic monitoring, with a law saying how many kids they can have and with forced abortion if the case, or, by their choice, expulsion

habitans extraneus (plural habitantes extranei) - foreigners, inhabitants of Europe of non-European descent and without European citizenship; higher taxes than the tolerati, no right to marry or have kids to either Europaei or tolerati, no right or at least restrictions (based on financial status) to have kids in Europe; expulsion from Europe in case of proved felonies

Gypsies and Jews and other such groups with a very old European presence would probably go under Europaei category.

what do you think?

Fantastic idea. I've argued for something similar before myself, but your plan is well thought out.

[Cristiano viejo]

Gypsies absorved?? lol no way man. Here in Spain Gypsies live in their own neighboorhods and genetically and culturally they are very different.
There are not Jews in Spain (very few really) but it happen the same with them. Maybe they are more integrated than Gypsies but they have their agenda and etc

[Anglojew]

IDK about Gypsies but Jews are more genetically Levantine than European, just a little bit. It's almost half and half. They are mixed with Euros but they are more Levantine. You fail as a right winger tbh.

1. Europe is named after a Levantine princess.

2. Near Easterners introduced white pigmentation to Europe;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?143755-Genetic-Proof-Ancient-Near-Easterners-Were-White-BEFORE-EUROPEANS-WERE-WHITE!!

[Alessio]

1. Europe is named after a Levantine princess.

2. Near Easterners introduced white pigmentation to Europe;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?143755-Genetic-Proof-Ancient-Near-Easterners-Were-White-BEFORE-EUROPEANS-WERE-WHITE!!

So by this definition \Southern Euro's are the true whites ! :p

[Anglojew]

So by this definition \Southern Euro's are the true whites ! :p

In my opinion all fair-skinned Caucasians are white. What constitutes fair skin might be debatable but I'd say someone like Salman Rushdie is the borderline of whiteness (he also has blue eyes) even though he's Indian;

http://cdn.3news.co.nz/3news/AM/2012/10/2/271233/Salman-Rushdie_AAP_1200.jpg

It's a mistake to believe whiteness is limited to Europe. It never was in any epoch and no prominent racial anthropologists believed it was.

[igo112]

...

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

1. Europe is named after a Levantine princess.

2. Near Easterners introduced white pigmentation to Europe;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?143755-Genetic-Proof-Ancient-Near-Easterners-Were-White-BEFORE-EUROPEANS-WERE-WHITE!!

So we are related to Levantines somehow? Otherwise they are still genetic strangers to Europe....

[igo112]

...

[Nurzat]

bump

[Musso]

How about we just get rid of the EU all together?