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Lulletje Rozewater
07-10-2010, 08:55 AM
.... and want it to fail??

So say many who have stayed behind in SA to "live the rainbow".

Some recent comments on the subject have angered me, not least because I personally know many of these expats and have garnered a variety of opinions from them over the last few years.

There are no doubt some naysayers for whom some twisted satisfaction is derived from South Africa's man-made crises. The motivation behind the wishing of harm on one's nation of birth purely for the Schadenfreude of saying 'I told you so' is best left to the individual's conscience (and therapist), but I'd like to weigh in on the subject and invite comments to see what other people think.

In my experience there are few nationalities that regret having left their home countries more than South Africans.

I'll return to that statement later. In South Africa I knew many ex-pats from other countries; the UK, France, Germany, Holland, Ireland and Sweden to name just a few. The reasons were many but the regrets were few. These Europeans largely felt they had a kind of freedom in South Africa that had been lost in their home countries. Many had just married South Africans. Some had retired, and they lived the kind of lifestyle in SA that those living in their own countries can only dream about.

But foreigners have it far easier than natives; all have more money, and this buys them privileges that locals do not have. Those who leave SA do so as much out of necessity as in search of greener pastures or career opportunities. It is, most significantly, not a choice that is made lightly.

My expat circle in Canada consists of professional people who talk about little else than home. Their sadness of having left their native land is almost tangible, and I cannot tolerate those who call them cowards or traitors for having left - that's the stuff of the ANC's "legislated patriotism" which, loosely translated, means that all Saffers have to roll up their sleeves and dig in because their country needs them.

One doctor said to me that he had tried that approach. He told me that he could cope with the risks of crime, the high taxes, the small material benefits from long working hours if it meant that he could live in the Western Cape - but not while the government is wasting his taxes on their own lavish consumption. He believes it a fraud that those in power lecture professionals on their state-sponsored 'responsibilities' while lazy bureaucrats take home far larger salaries.

If the government was sponsoring medics to train, then the state has some claim on them -such is the case in Malaysia for example. But they do not sponsor them. All these doctors paid their own way. All are still paying back the huge loans they took out to cover their fees. And all were sent to rat-infested rural hospitals where pen-pushers ensure their own enrichment at the expense of both patients and hardworking doctors. Where is the "patriotism" of the nurses who leave the Operating Theatre midway through procedures because their shift has ended? Where is the love of clan and country of the nurses who allow patients to die because they've been sleeping instead of on duty? Or of those who fill out the patients' charts in advance so they can sleep through the night instead of doing their jobs?

If you doubt those stories are true, please call up your GP and ask her/him.

But I digress; the issue at hand is love of country and whether living overseas is proof of a lack thereof. The contrast - in Canada, SA, and other places I've lived or visited - between expats who are glad to see the back of their home countries and those who, like those I've described above, deeply love and miss the land of their birth, is stark. Many would love to go back, but are under no illusions about what that would entail.

Many have no doubt found that their material circumstances have increased significantly and would be unwilling to give that up, but just as many would do so to walk familiar streets and beaches again (if it were safe ...).

I confess it bothers me that some expats want their country to fail, and continue, for example, to support the rugby team but not the football one. But I also accept that they have their reasons. They are also a minority. The majority of people I personally know would love to return if they could live their lives unmolested, but most know that this is a pipe dream. Crime, on the one hand, and ideology-driven ANC government policies on the other, means that "redistribution" - which is really forced labour - by legal or illegal means is a defining characteristic of the new South Africa.

And who can love that?

The main consideration that the previous government demanded from the impending ANC regime during constitutional negotiations in the early nineties was - or should have been - that its people would be left alone. This was not a policy failure but a practical one: how could it have ever been enforced? When you do a deal with the Devil how do you hold him to his side of the bargain? During the English Peasants' Revolt of 1381 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasants%27_Revolt), it was quickly discovered that you cannot hold a king to his promises.

What was upheld was a new constitution that protected the individual from the encroachment of the State - a thoroughly Liberal document, in the true and good sense of the word. The State has kept encroaching, however, and those who stayed in SA after 1994, it can fairly be said, gave the country a fair chance. After 16 years of trying, most have grown tired and frustrated. They voted 'yes' in 1993 but are being treated as though they voted 'no' by an unforgiving regime, who singles them out for collective punishment.

And they're traitors for leaving? I take vociferous exception to that accusation. These are, in the main, law-abiding taxpayers who, while not necessarily believing the 'rainbow nation' claptrap, at least put their money where their mouths are and gave it a chance. They handed over their earnings to a State that spent them on nice cars and champagne parties, all the while being told that their money was going to help the blacks' lives improve. These are people whose private charitable ventures have done more to help and empower the poor than grandiose government schemes.

And they may indeed hate that government - but they certainly love South Africa.

http://iluvsa.blogspot.com/2010/07/do-ex-pats-hate-south-africa.html

Loki
07-10-2010, 09:15 AM
I don't regret leaving SA (can return anytime I want). At the same time, I do wish SA well on behalf of its people. There are many good people in South Africa and of course I wish them the best. Why not? Somehow these people managed to survive and acclimatise to the new reality. There is not much else they can do. Afrikaner nationalistic hopes are basically still-born these days because we haven't had good leadership material in many decades. I have no idea why. Therefore, all they can do really is try to be selfish and further their own lives' interests in South Africa. It can be done, and many are prospering.

RoyBatty
07-10-2010, 02:09 PM
I don't hate it. All the best to all of you who remain there. :thumb001:

nisse
07-10-2010, 05:13 PM
This is not something that's aprticular to SA expats. The situation is exactly the same for many Eastern European immigrants (or any economic/political immigrants, really).

As for wanting the country to fail, I don't think anyone wants that. Some times expats are overly critical of their native coutry, but I think that's just a coping mechanism because they feel like they are cheering for the losing team. Saying that's them wanting failure for their homeland is just misinterpretation.

RoyBatty
07-11-2010, 07:29 AM
This is not something that's aprticular to SA expats. The situation is exactly the same for many Eastern European immigrants (or any economic/political immigrants, really).

As for wanting the country to fail, I don't think anyone wants that. Some times expats are overly critical of their native coutry, but I think that's just a coping mechanism because they feel like they are cheering for the losing team. Saying that's them wanting failure for their homeland is just misinterpretation.

Yes that's right. Sometimes a weirdo resents his / her motherland and immigrates to another country which then (according to them) is the Promised Land but I'm sceptical about such people who turn their backs on their roots. If they can do it once they can easily do it again.

Lulletje Rozewater
07-11-2010, 09:20 AM
I don't regret leaving SA (can return anytime I want). At the same time, I do wish SA well on behalf of its people. There are many good people in South Africa and of course I wish them the best. Why not? Somehow these people managed to survive and acclimatise to the new reality. There is not much else they can do. Afrikaner nationalistic hopes are basically still-born these days because we haven't had good leadership material in many decades. I have no idea why. Therefore, all they can do really is try to be selfish and further their own lives' interests in South Africa. It can be done, and many are prospering.
Loki, we are becoming selfish and for good reasons.
Some of us are lucky to have 2 passports.
Those that have not are in a whirlpool.
They bite those that could help.

Lulletje Rozewater
07-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Yes that's right. Sometimes a weirdo resents his / her motherland and immigrates to another country which then (according to them) is the Promised Land but I'm sceptical about such people who turn their backs on their roots. If they can do it once they can easily do it again.

South Africa is great,but it is the government that is a total screw up.
More often than not the expats have a stone to grind with that government,in this case the ANC-public sector.
For that reason I divide that sector in 2 groups,irrespective of color:Kaffirs and Africans

poiuytrewq0987
07-11-2010, 09:27 AM
I don't want to see SA fail however I would not be at all surprised if it does. The Africans have not yet evolved to the European way of life, so it is really unsurprising that they can't govern a country -- the reason why South Africa is on a very steep slope to total collapse. Heck, they voted in a rapist with AIDS for president, doesn't say a lot about them.

Lulletje Rozewater
07-11-2010, 09:56 AM
I don't want to see SA fail however I would not be at all surprised if it does. The Africans have not yet evolved to the European way of life, so it is really unsurprising that they can't govern a country -- the reason why South Africa is on a very steep slope to total collapse. Heck, they voted in a rapist with AIDS for president, doesn't say a lot about them.

And 70 percent alleged criminals in parliament

nisse
07-12-2010, 01:53 AM
I don't want to see SA fail however I would not be at all surprised if it does. The Africans have not yet evolved to the European way of life, so it is really unsurprising that they can't govern a country -- the reason why South Africa is on a very steep slope to total collapse. Heck, they voted in a rapist with AIDS for president, doesn't say a lot about them.

Well, Ukraine voted in an alleged rapist without HIV :eek:. Sometimes there's just nothing to chose from.

...may be I'll post this in "interesting facts about your country", lol

Grumpy Cat
07-12-2010, 02:00 AM
I dunno I'd rather someone with AIDS than the hypocrite in office we have, at least the person with AIDS is going to die soon. :rolleyes:

RoyBatty
07-12-2010, 03:26 AM
I dunno I'd rather someone with AIDS than the hypocrite in office we have, at least the person with AIDS is going to die soon. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately they often don't.



Well, Ukraine voted in an alleged rapist without HIV . Sometimes there's just nothing to chose from.

...may be I'll post this in "interesting facts about your country", lol


There are numerous striking similarities between Ukraine and Africa. The rampant corruption, the economic quagmire, the brutality of local crime syndicates, the general levels of ineptitude. It really is a case study for "what a country shouldn't become like". :D

nisse
07-12-2010, 03:46 AM
There are numerous striking similarities between Ukraine and Africa. The rampant corruption, the economic quagmire, the brutality of local crime syndicates, the general levels of ineptitude. It really is a case study for "what a country shouldn't become like". :D

...and we host the Euro after they hosted the World cup :p

Actually, Ukraine is not that bad "on the ground". People make a decent living, and at least no one is starving. Because of the scale of organized crime, it acts as a second government and is much better organized and self-consistent than the real government...well, nowadays they're pretty much one and the same.

However, it's unclear what will happen after all the USSRian infrastructure rots away, since there is not governemnt investement into anything.

RoyBatty
07-12-2010, 04:27 AM
Yeah who knows :)

Imo without the emergence of some previously unknown / undiscovered political, social and economic forces who plan to address these issues nothing will change.