R1a and R1b: Eurasian or European markers?

[DarknessInside]

Asked this question because both of them are usually classified as European markers (specifically Indo-European marker), but many non-European and non-IE have those markers too.

[Sockorer]

R1 is common throughout Eurasia and the Indo-Europeans were one of the main spreaders.

But, the Indo-Europeans are not the same as modern Europeans, they had an Asiatic element to them that modern Europeans lack, and their genes are shared all over Eurasia.

So, I classify R1 as Eurasian because it's common throughout Eurasia and the main spreaders were not distinctly European.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

r1b - european
r1a - eurasian

[Austrvegr]

R1b has its highest percentages in Cameroonians and Bashkirs.

:cool:

[Austrvegr]

R1 is common throughout Eurasia and the Indo-Europeans were one of the main spreaders.

But, the Indo-Europeans are not the same as modern Europeans, they had an Asiatic element to them that modern Europeans lack

If you mean ANE, all Northern Europeans from Britain to Estonia have it at about 25%.

[DarknessInside]

R1b has its highest percentages in Cameroonians and Bashkirs.

:cool:

It seems Bashkirs have multi-ethnic background. I mean it's possible modern Bashkirs have mixed origin of different and various Eurasian nomads.

[oh-nahhh]

Depends what subclade.

[TrueNordicism]

R1b are purely wog.

[Sockorer]

If you mean ANE, all Northern Europeans from Britain to Estonia have it at about 25%.

Yea, I mean ANE.

The Indo-Europeans had lots of it, much more than Northern Europeans.

[jatt]

r1a Is indo European marker.. remember the word indo... india... its origin is india.. r1b is not indo European but related its origin is stated to be present day Anatolia.. r1b is mostly found in west European r1a also known as Aryan haplotype is present in Indians and east Europeans mostly

[Journeyman26]

African and Eurasian branches are not the same sub-branch.
http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png

Uniquely European groups all Share the L51 SNP. Those in the Levant, Africa and Anatolia do not carry this polymorphism. Of the European groups with L51, the subgroups are:

European marker branches are:

R1b-L21
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/design/R1b-L21-tree.png

R1b-S28
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/design/R1b-S28-tree.png

R1b-DF27
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/design/R1b-DF27-tree.png

R1b-S21
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/design/R1b-S21-tree.png

[jatt]

R1b is not indo European. r1b can be found in sub Saharan Africans too..

[Journeyman26]

R1b is not indo European. r1b can be found in sub Saharan Africans too..

See the post directly above yours. African + Asian groups are different subclades than European.

[Graham]

R1b is not indo European.

Every Proto-Indo-European Yamnaya Male tested was R1b. To say it isn't is a difficult argument to make.

Most likely both are indo-European.

[jatt]

Every Proto-Indo-European Yamnaya Male tested was R1b. To say it isn't is a difficult argument to make.

Most likely both are indo-European. that's why thereis doubt about yamnya culture being indo european

[FeederOfRavens]

that's why thereis doubt about yamnya culture being indo european

That's why there is doubt about you having a brain.

[MagnusAurelius]

That's why there is doubt about you having a brain.

He is a delusional idiot Indian Supremacist with an IQ of about 85-90 who believes Indians are racially pure and R1A1 comes from India and India only. Even the evidence he links proves his opinion wrong on that as he stopped replying to this thread when he was proven wrong.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?169411-Erzya-Aryan-people&p=3615885#post3615885

[Gaston]

Obviously Eurasian. European branches of both r1a and r1b are not basal to all other non-European r1a and r1b.

[Peterski]

Oldest samples of R1a and R1b in ancient DNA found so far are from Europe (including European Russia):

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31250-Mezolithic-Neolithic-vs-Chalcolithic-Early-Iron-Age-Y-DNA-landscape-of-Europe

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31250-Mezolithic-Neolithic-vs-Chalcolithic-Early-Iron-Age-Y-DNA-landscape-of-Europe/page7

http://s24.postimg.org/tbvhtfpcl/R1a_vs_R1b.png

Of course not all subclades of R1b and R1a can be associated with Indo-Europeans:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?173359-My-tree-of-R1-haplogroup-%28with-a-timeline-and-ethno-linguistic-data%29

http://s22.postimg.org/vkhatmngf/PIE_Tree.png

http://s29.postimg.org/42r6xobmv/PIE_Tree_Small.png

[Austrvegr]

Yea, I mean ANE.

The Indo-Europeans had lots of it, much more than Northern Europeans.

You claimed


But, the Indo-Europeans are not the same as modern Europeans, they had an Asiatic element to them that modern Europeans lack

Which was a lie.

[Austrvegr]

There is no way for North-Western European supremacists to represent R1b as truly European and R1a as Eurasian, howevermuch they would like to.

[Sockorer]

You claimed



Which was a lie.

I'm sorry Ivan, but I think I have a better grasp of the English language than you do.

The Asiatic element I was referring to is ANE which modern Europeans have less of (or a LACK of)when compared to the Indo-Europeans.

The word "lack" means less of or without.

[Gaston]

Oldest samples of R1a and R1b in ancient DNA found so far are from Europe (including European Russia):



No shit Sherlock. 99% of ancient dna available is from Europe.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

r1a Is indo European marker.. remember the word indo... india... its origin is india.. r1b is not indo European but related its origin is stated to be present day Anatolia.. r1b is mostly found in west European r1a also known as Aryan haplotype is present in Indians and east Europeans mostly

Also in Norwegians. Many Norwegians have R1a it is said Germanics mostly had R1a before mixing with other peoples. So Germanics, Slavs and....Indians? share common origin.