Objective Morality - does it exist?

[Loki]

What are your thoughts about it? :)

[Neon Knight]

Essentially, no.

Good is what you want or like; evil is what you don't want or don't like. In a democracy, what the majority wants is good and what they don't want is evil, and it can change over time.

[Buchan]

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", is a maxim found in all civilisations that developed writing. I'd like to think that it forms the objective pillar on which sound moral codes are established.

[♥ Lily ♥]

No;- 'good/bad' or 'right/wrong' dichotomy is subjective and it's man-made, and morals stems from man-made religions. Morals don't exist in the natural world. Fire and water can save lives in times of cold or drought, but these elements of nature can also destroy lives. So are fire and water 'good' or 'evil'? Neither, since the energies within nature just does.

For many people, the thought of learning to think and make decisions without robotic programming from rule books on morality and learning to live without the crutches of religion is frightening to let go of. But when people know what is beneficial and productive or harmful and destructive in nature, without books telling them, humans can move beyond 'right and wrong' thinking, (or 'beyond good and evil' as Nietzsche put it,) and be able to think about the reasons for actions to take or avoid in life and be able to make wise and healthy decisions, without needing moralistic guidelines which are like the training wheels on a training bike.

I have a lot of respect for life and nature, and I have natural feelings of empathy and awareness for other living species feelings, without needing a man-made religious instruction book, (and besides that, the bible is a book full of extremely abusive instructions towards children clearly written in it that I disagree with anyway.)

“In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.”
Professor Richard Dawkins, evolutionary biologist and free-thinking Atheist.

The man in the first 2 videos below (Mister Morgue) is an Atheist who gives stunt performances to crowds of people. He draws inspiration from LaVey and also from the existentialist philosophers Nietzsche and Sartre. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgDhHvyV16HSnC0ko6-K3nA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEJREkpa_zQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AIB4m8Wv30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlojPJr4-Vo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMhe8Ot_FI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4vPoFRH8d0

[Neon Knight]

That doesn't mean there isn't an objective morality. What it means is that there are people who view morality only as it effects their personal interests. Morality based on reason, however, isn't concern with an individual's personal interests but rather what is good and what is bad based on what is rational. For example, I may like to get drunk every night. That, to me, is correct behavior because I enjoy it. However we know for a fact that getting drunk every night harms our health. What harms us isn't the good. It's not rational to harm ourselves regardless if we enjoy it.That is just you weighing up the pros and cons of regular drinking and concluding that preserving your health is more important; some drinkers or druggies seem to prefer the pleasure i.e. getting out of it every night is good to them.

[Loki]

I essentially agree with English Rose on the matter.

Religionists would want to argue that morality comes from God, and that it cannot come from within ourselves. I think that is ridiculous, since religions are man-made in the first place, and religious views on morality vary as much as there are different religions and denominations.

I don't think there is a passage in the Bible that says "thou shalt not rape" - yet, most of us at least know it is wrong.

A crude definition of morality could be that, whichever is harmful to other human beings, is immoral. And the other way around, is 'good'.

I don't need the Bible to tell me that murder and armed robbery is immoral. Some theists think that, in the absence of religious scripture, we would descend into wild animals with no instinct on what is 'good' or what is 'bad'. Most of our modern state laws are not based on the Bible anyway, but are secular in origin. There is such a thing as conscience.

[Loki]

I find my moral in my God I believing in.

Do you think he is the origin of morals? Can morality exist without God?

[Dombra]

Do you think he is the origin of morals? Can morality exist without God?

I would like to answer this as well :)

Some God gave humanity the ability to be moral instead of being simple apes. Morality as we know it however was shaped by ourselves and is unique to humanity, if any god says otherwise then you know he is the Demiurge and needs to be ignored

[BeerBaron]

I essentially agree with English Rose on the matter.

Religionists would want to argue that morality comes from God, and that it cannot come from within ourselves. I think that is ridiculous, since religions are man-made in the first place, and religious views on morality vary as much as there are different religions and denominations.

I don't think there is a passage in the Bible that says "thou shalt not rape" - yet, most of us at least know it is wrong.

A crude definition of morality could be that, whichever is harmful to other human beings, is immoral. And the other way around, is 'good'.

I don't need the Bible to tell me that murder and armed robbery is immoral. Some theists think that, in the absence of religious scripture, we would descend into wild animals with no instinct on what is 'good' or what is 'bad'. Most of our modern state laws are not based on the Bible anyway, but are secular in origin. There is such a thing as conscience.

God came from us, them arguing that it came from god, whom came from us, is essentially saying the same thing as saying it came directly from us. Just in a convoluted religious way.

[Aviator]

No, but I think it's important for a society to subjectively create moral standards and then objectively determine when someone's actions violate the created morality.

[Dianatomia]

Our moral standards change through time. They also depend on different religions and ideologies.
Also, to a great degree moral instinct is biological which we owe to our evolutionary heritage.

Unfortunately, there is no objective law coming from the man upstairs.

[de Burgh II]

I would say morality is simply a subjective tool that evolved to make more people willing to cooperate since were social creatures innately that is hardwired in us all. That is why when were very young; we endeavor to be a person of some value in order to be a part of our perceived group in order to gain some praise via facial recognition of the individual we perceive of considerable importance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK8rKKp-vP0

Life continues onwards as it always does. We as people simply observe its trends. Were nothing more than specks of sand in the hourglass. Arbiters of our own destinies to what we choose to follow down. Small manifestations within this cosmic grand design.

[Svipdag]

It is an abstraction which exists in the sense in which other abstractions such as justice, prosperity, compassion, generosity, etc. exist. One may assert that abstractions exist only in the mind, yet there are abstractions such as honor, loyalty, independence, and freedom, for which men have willingly given their lives.

If they have no objective existence, how shall we account for their power ?