You could score under 1% non-Caucasoid and have a fully non-Caucasoid ancestor as recent as 1765!

[Sikeliot]

Check for the math here.

23andme is conservative with its estimates for non-Caucasoid admixture, so say you have a person born in 1990 who has an unbroken line to one fully SSA ancestor. This individual born in 1990 has 0.2% non-Caucasoid ancestry on 23andme.

Now, pretend everyone in their family had children at age 25, and that ancestry divides evenly, which it does not. If everyone had kids at 20, it would be even more recent, like 1800 if not more recent.

Parent, 1965 birth: 0.4%
Grandparent, 1940: 0.8%
Great-grandparent, 1915: 1.6%
Great-great grandparent, 1890: 3.2%
Great-great-great grandparent, 1865: 6.4%
Great-great-great-great grandparent, 1840: 12.8%
Great-great-great-great-great grandparent, 1815: 25.6%
Great-great-great-great-great-great grandparent, 1790: ~50%
Great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparent, 1765: ~100% non-Caucasoid

[Gooding]

Check for the math here.

23andme is conservative with its estimates for non-Caucasoid admixture, so say you have a person born in 1990 who has an unbroken line to one fully SSA ancestor. This individual born in 1990 has 0.2% non-Caucasoid ancestry on 23andme.

Now, pretend everyone in their family had children at age 25, and that ancestry divides evenly, which it does not. If everyone had kids at 20, it would be even more recent, like 1800 if not more recent.

Parent, 1965 birth: 0.4%
Grandparent, 1940: 0.8%
Great-grandparent, 1915: 1.6%
Great-great grandparent, 1890: 3.2%
Great-great-great grandparent, 1865: 6.4%
Great-great-great-great grandparent, 1840: 12.8%
Great-great-great-great-great grandparent, 1815: 25.6%
Great-great-great-great-great-great grandparent, 1790: ~50%
Great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparent, 1765: ~100% non-Caucasoid
Really? That's interesting, seeing as how on my Speculative, I have 0.2% SSA ancestry and 0.2% Native American. I thought the NA was accounted for by Catherine Lejeune's mother, back in the early seventeenth century, but no account has been made for any possible black blood on my father's side of the family. I know it reads as 0.1% East African and 0.1% Broadly SSA..
Ancestry Composition tells you what percent of your DNA comes from each of 31 populations worldwide. This analysis includes DNA you received from all of your recent ancestors, on both sides of your family. The results reflect where your ancestors lived before the widespread migrations of the past few hundred years.

99.6% European

Northern European

56.5% British & Irish

16.0% French & German

3.3% Scandinavian

0.3% Finnish

22.2% Broadly Northern European

Southern European

0.3% Broadly Southern European

1.0% Broadly European

0.2% East Asian & Native American

0.2% Native American

0.2% Sub-Saharan African

0.1% East African
0.1% Broadly Sub-Saharan African

0.1% Unassigned

100% Andrew Gooding

[Sikeliot]

Really? That's interesting, seeing as how on my Speculative, I have 0.2% SSA ancestry and 0.2% Native American.

You have a fully African and a Native American ancestor which, if from an unbroken line to one ancestor, would have lived between 1750 and 1820 depending on the ages your family had children.

I also score 0.2% SSA but I suspect some of mine gets sucked into MENA and Iberian, which you don't have. On most calculators I score much more than this, but my ancestor would've been enslaved by the Portuguese on the islands, not in the US. How much do you score on different GEDmatch calculators for both Amerindian and African?

[Figaro]

What you think of eurogenes estimates?

My dad gets 100% European on 23andme, but often half a percent to one percent native american/siberian. Likely just "noise" that a lot of northern europeans show. Still, makes ya think.

[Gooding]

EthioHelix K10 + French Admixture Proportions

EthioHelix Africa K10 + French - French acts as a proxy for European ancestry in this case. Results are currently most meaningful for persons who are a mix of African and European. For more information, see the Blog Post. In particular, see the Africa_V2 run at the bottom of the page, as that is the specific run that these results are based on. That way, you can see the exact steps taken to achieve these results. Also, see the Gradient Maps to get a better picture of how the clusters are spatially distributed.

Kit Number: M372705 Iteration: 1000 Delta-Q: 1.732910e-03 Elapsed Time: 7.29 seconds




Population
Nilo-Saharan -
North-Africa 14.27%
Mbuti-Pygmy -
Eastern-Bantu -
Khoi-San -
West-Africa -
Hadza -
Biaka-Pygmy -
French 84.78%
Omotic 0.95%

[Gooding]

Africa9 Admixture Proportions

The Africa9 admixture calculator is courtesy of Dienekes Pontikos and was developed as part of the Dodecad Ancestry Project; more information here.

Kit Number: M372705 Iteration: 1000 Delta-Q: 2.199904e-04 Elapsed Time: 5.89 seconds




Population
Europe 70.18%
NW_Africa 6.54%
SW_Asia 22.24%
E_Africa 0.41%
S_Africa -
Mbuti -
W_Africa -
Biaka 0.62%
San -

[Smeagol]

Yeah, but honestly admixture from that far back isn't really relevant.

[Gooding]

World9 Oracle results:
Kit M372705

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 72.75
2 Southern 12.78
3 Caucasus_Gedrosia 11.87
4 South_Asian 1.14
5 Amerindian 1.06
6 Australasian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 1.45
2 Dutch (Dodecad) 2.08
3 German (Dodecad) 2.49
4 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 2.86
5 Cornwall (1000 Genomes) 3.13
6 Kent (1000 Genomes) 3.3
7 British (Dodecad) 3.45
8 British_Isles (Dodecad) 4.37
9 Argyll (1000 Genomes) 5.11
10 Irish (Dodecad) 5.24
11 Hungarians (Behar) 5.24
12 Orcadian (HGDP) 5.37
13 Orkney (1000 Genomes) 5.79
14 French (HGDP) 6.4
15 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 6.65
16 Polish (Dodecad) 7.33
17 French (Dodecad) 7.35
18 Belorussian (Behar) 9.23
19 Norwegian (Dodecad) 9.57
20 Swedish (Dodecad) 9.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98.9% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 1.1% Colombians @ 0.57
2 98.9% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 1.1% Maya @ 0.57
3 98.7% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 1.3% PEL30 @ 0.57
4 99% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 1% Karitiana @ 0.57
5 99% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 1% Surui @ 0.57
6 98.9% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 1.1% Pima @ 0.57
7 98.2% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 1.8% Ecuadorian @ 0.6
8 97.9% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 2.1% MEX30 @ 0.61
9 98.6% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 1.4% Athabask @ 0.69
10 94% Orcadian (HGDP) + 6% Yemen_Jews (Behar) @ 0.69
11 97.6% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 2.4% Colombian @ 0.71
12 90.5% Orcadian (HGDP) + 9.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 0.73
13 93.7% Orcadian (HGDP) + 6.3% Saudis (Behar) @ 0.73
14 89.1% Orcadian (HGDP) + 10.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 0.75
15 90.7% Orcadian (HGDP) + 9.3% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 0.77
16 97.1% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 2.9% CLM30 @ 0.77
17 88.8% Orcadian (HGDP) + 11.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 0.77
18 88.8% Orcadian (HGDP) + 11.2% Ashkenazy_Jews @ 0.78
19 86.5% Orcadian (HGDP) + 13.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 0.79
20 89% Orcadian (HGDP) + 11% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 0.79

[Figaro]

Ethio K10+French for my dad


Population
Nilo-Saharan -
North-Africa 17.38%
Mbuti-Pygmy -
Eastern-Bantu -
Khoi-San 0.07%
West-Africa -
Hadza 0.20%
Biaka-Pygmy -
French 79.31%
Omotic 3.03%

[Gooding]

GEDmatch.Com Oracle
This version of GEDmatch Oracle is based on 'Oracle v1' by Dienekes Pontikos. His original program was developed as part of the Dodecad Ancestry Project. More information on Dienekes' orignal program can be found here.

Many thanks also to Zack Ajmal for helping us get this web version of Dienekes' Oracle program developed.


MDLP World Oracle results:
Kit M372705

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 South_and_West_European 46.6
2 North_and_East_European 40.39
3 Caucaus_Parsia 8.13
4 Middle_East 1.74
5 Indian 1.13
6 Mesoamerican 1.06
7 Arctic_Amerind 0.62
8 Melanesian 0.3
9 Paleo_African 0.05

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 CEU_V 1.72
2 German_V 1.88
3 Austrian 2.48
4 CEU 2.5
5 Welsh 3.03
6 Slovenian 3.13
7 British 3.63
8 Orcadian 3.85
9 Hungarian 4.19
10 Norwegian_V 4.25
11 German-North 4.94
12 Czech 5.15
13 Croatian 5.51
14 German 5.96
15 Swedish 6.45
16 Slovakian 6.94
17 German-South 7.1
18 Bosnian 7.2
19 Croatian_V 8.15
20 Swedish_V 9.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.1% CEU + 14.9% Latvian_V @ 1.04
2 78.4% CEU + 21.6% Croatian_V @ 1.14
3 56.9% CEU + 43.1% Slovenian @ 1.21
4 72.7% Swedish_V + 27.3% Kosovar @ 1.24
5 84.9% Norwegian_V + 15.1% Italian-North @ 1.24
6 65% CEU + 35% Hungarian @ 1.26
7 98.1% CEU_V + 1.9% Abhkasian @ 1.27
8 97.2% CEU_V + 2.8% Miwok @ 1.29
9 59.3% Welsh + 40.7% Hungarian @ 1.3
10 93.8% CEU_V + 6.2% Romania @ 1.3
11 98.2% CEU_V + 1.8% Georgian_Imereti @ 1.3
12 76.1% Norwegian_V + 23.9% Swiss @ 1.31
13 98% CEU_V + 2% Ossetian @ 1.31
14 79.2% British + 20.8% Latvian_V @ 1.31
15 97.9% CEU_V + 2.1% NorthOssetian @ 1.31
16 97.7% CEU_V + 2.3% Balkarian @ 1.32
17 61.3% German_V + 38.7% CEU @ 1.33
18 97.8% CEU_V + 2.2% Kabardinian @ 1.33
19 97.4% CEU_V + 2.6% Roma @ 1.33
20 65.8% Austrian + 34.2% Norwegian_V @ 1.33

[Gooding]

Yeah, but honestly admixture from that far back isn't really relevant.

That's true. Mind you, it is fun to learn certain obscure facts about things.. not that I'm going to drive up to Maine and demand a membership card in the Abenaki Confederacy. :)

[Gooding]

MDLP World-22 Oracle results:
Kit M372705

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 North-East-European 49.09
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 34.13
3 West-Asian 6.42
4 North-European-Mesolithic 4.92
5 Indo-Iranian 1.55
6 Near_East 1.21
7 Mesoamerican 0.47
8 Indian 0.46
9 North-Amerind 0.46
10 South-America_Amerind 0.46
11 Austronesian 0.42
12 Arctic-Amerind 0.41
13 Pygmy 0.02

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 CEU_V (derived) 2.02
2 German_V (derived) 2.47
3 Austrian (derived) 3.6
4 Welsh (derived) 3.88
5 CEU (derived) 4.64
6 British (derived) 5.57
7 German-North (derived) 5.97
8 Hungarian (derived) 6.06
9 Norwegian_V (derived) 6.09
10 Swedish (derived) 6.17
11 Orcadian (derived) 6.6
12 Slovenian (derived) 7.01
13 German (derived) 7.07
14 German-South (derived) 7.73
15 Croatian (derived) 8.15
16 Bosnian (derived) 9.11
17 Swedish_V (derived) 9.12
18 Serbian (derived) 9.45
19 Czech (derived) 10.03
20 Croatian_V (derived) 11.48

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.5% CEU (derived) + 19.5% Latvian_V (derived) @ 1.04
2 77.4% British (derived) + 22.6% Latvian_V (derived) @ 1.16
3 67.5% German_V (derived) + 32.5% CEU (derived) @ 1.2
4 60.7% CEU (derived) + 39.3% Slovenian (derived) @ 1.26
5 97.8% CEU_V (derived) + 2.2% Abhkasian (derived) @ 1.34
6 57.1% CEU (derived) + 42.9% Hungarian (derived) @ 1.34
7 97.8% CEU_V (derived) + 2.2% Georgian_Imereti (derived) @ 1.35
8 75.8% German_V (derived) + 24.2% Orcadian (derived) @ 1.36
9 94.6% CEU_V (derived) + 5.4% Kosovar (derived) @ 1.37
10 97.7% CEU_V (derived) + 2.3% Georgian_Laz (derived) @ 1.38
11 97.5% CEU_V (derived) + 2.5% Ossetian (derived) @ 1.39
12 83.8% CEU_V (derived) + 16.2% German-South (derived) @ 1.39
13 97% CEU_V (derived) + 3% Cirkassian (derived) @ 1.39
14 97.2% CEU_V (derived) + 2.8% Balkarian (derived) @ 1.41
15 97.4% CEU_V (derived) + 2.6% NorthOssetian (derived) @ 1.42
16 97.2% CEU_V (derived) + 2.8% Kabardinian (derived) @ 1.42
17 97.4% CEU_V (derived) + 2.6% Georgian (derived) @ 1.43
18 74.6% German_V (derived) + 25.4% Norwegian_V (derived) @ 1.43
19 72.8% German_V (derived) + 27.2% British (derived) @ 1.43
20 97.7% CEU_V (derived) + 2.3% Armenian (derived) @ 1.45

[Gooding]

So if I ever get cocky and try to call myself " pure" anything ever again, you can bring up these stats and tell me I'm full of it..

[Gooding]

I may not even be a full- blooded Gentile.. :p I kind of mentally shunted the Eastern European readings off to one corner of my mind, but it is interesting the percentage of Eastern European I seem to show. Maybe I have unknown Slavic ancestry..
Gedmatch.Com

Jtest 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

Jtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 26.42
2 ATLANTIC 25.11
3 SOUTH_BALTIC 15.18
4 WEST_MED 12.84
5 EAST_EURO 10.36
6 ASHKENAZI 4.16
7 WEST_ASIAN 2.61
8 EAST_MED 2.61


Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
14 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 NL @ 3.420674
2 West_&_Central_German @ 4.422676
3 English @ 4.799770
4 Cornish @ 4.892593
5 Orcadian @ 6.544851
6 DK @ 7.127787
7 IE @ 7.720211
8 NO @ 8.529041
9 Scottish @ 8.825736
10 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 8.903915
11 FR @ 10.365090
12 AT @ 10.935264
13 North_Swedish @ 13.222367
14 HU @ 16.765495
15 PT @ 18.617973
16 ES @ 19.075336
17 Serbian @ 20.511051
18 South_Finnish @ 21.326338
19 North_Italian @ 22.899483
20 PL @ 23.107931

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% FR +50% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.370390


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% FR +25% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.370390


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 FR + FR + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.370390
2 Cornish + FR + NL + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.502439
3 FR + NL + NL + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.583737
4 FR + FR + NO + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.589640
5 Cornish + FR + South_&_Central_Swedish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.598706
6 English + FR + NL + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.702237
7 Cornish + ES + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.739528
8 FR + NL + Orcadian + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.742048
9 ES + NL + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.746762
10 Cornish + FR + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.750389
11 English + ES + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.756877
12 FR + NL + NL + NO @ 2.775904
13 Cornish + English + FR + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.794444
14 English + FR + South_&_Central_Swedish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.807954
15 FR + NL + South_&_Central_Swedish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.808003
16 FR + Orcadian + South_&_Central_Swedish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.815910
17 Cornish + FR + NL + NO @ 2.819113
18 ES + Orcadian + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.828897
19 Cornish + PT + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.850286
20 Cornish + FR + NO + West_&_Central_German @ 2.852668

Done.

Elapsed time 0.1846 seconds.

[Wadaad]

Doubt anyone considers 1765 'recent'...

[Gooding]

Doubt anyone considers 1765 'recent'...

Nope. I'm pretty sure " recent" to most people means last century at the earliest.

[Sikeliot]

Well I think a lot of Americans have ancestry from "other races" than the ones they consider themselves as recent as 200 years ago. I do consider it recent.

[Gooding]

Well I think a lot of Americans have ancestry from "other races" than the ones they consider themselves as recent as 200 years ago. I do consider it recent.

Scientifically speaking, Sikeliot, you're absolutely right. I'd go so far and consider 300 years back, say 1715, recent, as well. Frankly, with the Amerind themed tattoos I've got, I'm glad I've got that 0.2%! Oh, I love wolves and I'd still keep the tattoos regardless, but I am glad I have some scientific stuff to show there's a basis in reality for some of these things. All I was saying was that in popular culture, we don't tend to look back 300 or 400 years and think it's yesterday. Let's be real, our culture is pretty ADD as far as finding things out. They'll see their grandparents' dominant ethnicity and they're off. That's it.

[Smitty]

Well I think a lot of Americans have ancestry from "other races" than the ones they consider themselves as recent as 200 years ago. I do consider it recent.

Although I disagree that there are all that many mixed-race Americans even at this genealogical distance, I agree that 200-300 years ago is recent. It may not amount to much genetically speaking, but this isn't distant history we're talking about here.

EDIT: On a side note here, I hear a lot of talk about "noise" in genetic tests. In your opinion, does noise exist, and if so, at what levels?

[Mortimer]

1765 is not recent dude. that being said it says im 0.4% but im not. also on other calculators i score zero SSA (MyOrigins FtDNA for example im 1% East Asian and zero SSA) but on 23andme im 0.1% east asian and 0.4% SSA, i think its noise, but if you have recorded history of a SSA ancestor thats different.

[Sikeliot]

1765 is not recent dude. that being said it says im 0.4% but im not. also on other calculators i score zero SSA (MyOrigins FtDNA for example im 1% East Asian and zero SSA) but on 23andme im 0.1% east asian and 0.4% SSA, i think its noise, but if you have recorded history of a SSA ancestor thats different.

If you score consistent amounts of these on GEDmatch it is not noise. I notice with Gooding, he doesn't score SSA on GEDmatch so it might be noise, while he does score Amerindian.

[Mortimer]

If you score consistent amounts of these on GEDmatch it is not noise. I notice with Gooding, he doesn't score SSA on GEDmatch so it might be noise, while he does score Amerindian.

depends on the gedmatch calculator but sometimes i score SSA (often the SSA is split up like Pygmy and Paleo-African Neo-African etc.) but not 0.4% i score sometimes zero sometimes 0.2% or like that, i doubt i have any SSA ancestry maybe traces from thousands of years back thats it

[Sikeliot]

depends on the gedmatch calculator but sometimes i score SSA (often the SSA is split up like Pygmy and Paleo-African Neo-African etc.) but not 0.4% i score sometimes zero sometimes 0.2% or like that, i doubt i have any SSA ancestry maybe traces from thousands of years back thats it

What is interesting is I get 0.1% Amerindian/East Asian on 23andme, but my mom does not, so it must be from my Sicilian side -- likely from the distant Anatolian Greek we have. And on GEDmatch it does show up but higher, which might signal something Amerindian-like in my Slavic ancestry also. The African consistently shows up but varies from one calculator to the next. It's highly unlikely I have any recent Asian/Amerindian at all though.

[Mortimer]

What is interesting is I get 0.1% Amerindian/East Asian on 23andme, but my mom does not, so it must be from my Sicilian side -- likely from the distant Anatolian Greek we have. And on GEDmatch it does show up but higher, which might signal something Amerindian-like in my Slavic ancestry also. The African consistently shows up but varies from one calculator to the next. It's highly unlikely I have any recent Asian/Amerindian at all though.

i think east asian can be under the southasian ancestry, because most gypsies score 1-3% east asian on 23andme and i score some on gedmatch and on myorigins i think its part of southasian ancestry, not real east asian (like chinese or japanese) but SSA is noise for me.

[Sikeliot]

i think east asian can be under the southasian ancestry, because most gypsies score 1-3% east asian on 23andme and i score some on gedmatch and on myorigins i think its part of southasian ancestry, not real east asian (like chinese or japanese) but SSA is noise for me.

Eurogenes K12/K15 are good for SSA detection, how much do you score? "NE African" there is not really from NE Africa but is an indigenous East African component also common in southern and central African Bantu people, and makes up the SSA element in Ethiopians (they score "Red Sea" to make up their Arabian part). "SSA" is West African.

[Gooding]

If you score consistent amounts of these on GEDmatch it is not noise. I notice with Gooding, he doesn't score SSA on GEDmatch so it might be noise, while he does score Amerindian.

I'm of the opinion that the SSA may well be noise, but the Amerindian might not be that much of a surprise, especially as I still score 0.2% Native American on 23andMe and even in AncestryDNA, although I show up as 100% European, when I check out the Native American, I read as 1.0% or less. I think it's interesting that I show up as Arctic, North Amerind, Mesoamerican and South American Amerind. There might have been some Spanish contacts nobody in the family knows about. It would be interesting to learn more.

[Mortimer]

EU K 15

Population
North_Sea 16.45%
Atlantic 5.56%
Baltic 10.82%
Eastern_Euro 7.39%
West_Med 13.28%
West_Asian 12.51%
East_Med 13.97%
Red_Sea 2.91%
South_Asian 13.40%
Southeast_Asian 1.84%
Siberian 0.09%
Amerindian 0.62%
Oceanian 1.05%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.09%

but 23andme says im 0.4% which would be recent ancestor like 1/64 which is not recorded in my family

[Sikeliot]

EU K 15

Population
North_Sea 16.45%
Atlantic 5.56%
Baltic 10.82%
Eastern_Euro 7.39%
West_Med 13.28%
West_Asian 12.51%
East_Med 13.97%
Red_Sea 2.91%
South_Asian 13.40%
Southeast_Asian 1.84%
Siberian 0.09%
Amerindian 0.62%
Oceanian 1.05%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.09%

but 23andme says im 0.4% which would be recent ancestor like 1/64 which is not recorded in my family

It might be noise then. If it's not noise it should show up in every calculator :)

[Mortimer]

It might be noise then. If it's not noise it should show up in every calculator :)

on the old one i dont know if you were already on 23andme back then i was zero african and 0.01% east asian and 99.99% european, so i had zero african now i have 0.4% african

[Gooding]

Eurogenes K12 Admixture Proportions

This utility uses the Eurogenes K12 model, created by Davidski (Polako). Questions and comments about this model
should be directed to him at his Eurogenes blog. We appreciate him making this excellent tool available here.

A map showing the K12 populations is available HERE.

Population descriptions are available HERE.

Kit Number: M372705 Iteration: 1000 Delta-Q: 2.900600e-03 Elapsed Time: 53.38 seconds




Population
South Asian 0.79%
Caucasus 4.52%
Southwest Asian 0.59%
North Amerindian + Arctic 0.50%
Siberian -
Mediterranean 13.87%
East Asian -
West African -
Volga-Ural 5.83%
South Baltic 13.64%
Western European 27.33%
North Sea 32.94%


Yeah, that North American Indian isn't going anywhere. Maybe I should add Native Pride to my permission groups.

[Mortimer]

Eurogenes K12 ok on this one i score 0.5% west african but on many others i score zero or close to zero i still think its noise


Population
South Asian 14.85%
Caucasus 19.98%
Southwest Asian 5.75%
North Amerindian + Arctic 0.30%
Siberian -
Mediterranean 18.90%
East Asian 2.29%
West African 0.50%
Volga-Ural 6.01%
South Baltic 13.40%
Western European 8.22%
North Sea 9.80%

[Gooding]

Hola Compadres!

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit M372705

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.97
2 Baltic 24.33
3 West_Med 14.79
4 West_Asian 5.01
5 East_Med 4.12
6 Amerindian 1 << there's my 1.0% non- Caucasoid! :)
7 Red_Sea 0.92
8 Oceanian 0.8
9 South_Asian 0.55
10 Sub-Saharan 0.51

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Southeast_English 2.93
2 Orcadian 4.03
3 Southwest_English 4.35
4 North_Dutch 4.63
5 South_Dutch 4.94
6 Irish 5.08
7 Danish 5.17
8 North_German 5.4
9 West_Scottish 5.63
10 West_German 6.16
11 Norwegian 6.9
12 Swedish 8.25
13 French 10.46
14 Austrian 11.39
15 East_German 11.85
16 North_Swedish 13.66
17 Hungarian 16.2
18 Spanish_Cataluna 17.66
19 Southwest_French 18.59
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.83

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.4% North_Dutch + 8.6% Sardinian @ 1.12
2 83.7% Southwest_English + 16.3% Croatian @ 1.21
3 79.5% Southwest_English + 20.5% Hungarian @ 1.21
4 80.6% North_Dutch + 19.4% Southwest_French @ 1.27
5 73.8% Norwegian + 26.2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.29
6 73.2% Southwest_English + 26.8% Austrian @ 1.35
7 74% Southwest_English + 26% East_German @ 1.35
8 81.2% North_Dutch + 18.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.36
9 84.8% Southwest_English + 15.2% Moldavian @ 1.37
10 72.3% Norwegian + 27.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.44
11 75.6% Norwegian + 24.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.45
12 77% Norwegian + 23% Spanish_Andalucia @ 1.45
13 75.2% Norwegian + 24.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 1.48
14 75.4% Norwegian + 24.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.48
15 73.7% Norwegian + 26.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 1.5
16 72.5% Swedish + 27.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.51
17 87.6% Norwegian + 12.4% Sardinian @ 1.53
18 74.1% Norwegian + 25.9% Portuguese @ 1.55
19 73.7% Norwegian + 26.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 1.6
20 85.5% Southwest_English + 14.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 1.6

[Sikeliot]

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.97
2 Baltic 24.33
3 West_Med 14.79
4 West_Asian 5.01
5 East_Med 4.12
6 Amerindian 1
7 Red_Sea 0.92
8 Oceanian 0.8
9 South_Asian 0.55
10 Sub-Saharan 0.51



If pure North Euros of your ancestry do not score it, then it's likely real. You have less than my family does but I suspect there is a small bit there. Your Amerindian I am convinced is real whereas mine is highly unlikely to be New World (and is either part of being partly Eastern European or is from my distant Anatolian Greek).

[Gooding]

If pure North Euros of your ancestry do not score it, then it's likely real. You have less than my family does but I suspect there is a small bit there. Your Amerindian I am convinced is real whereas mine is highly unlikely to be New World (and is either part of being partly Eastern European or is from my distant Anatolian Greek).

I find this study to be very interesting.. as I've been looking at the Native American and African readings, I've noticed to my satisfaction that I seem to have a significant amount of Mediterranean genetic heritage as well. :)

[SupaThug]

I find this study to be very interesting.. as I've been looking at the Native American and African readings, I've noticed to my satisfaction that I seem to have a significant amount of Mediterranean genetic heritage as well. :)

Couldn't your SSA come from your Cajun side?I've heard some Cajuns have some SSA input.

[Gooding]

Couldn't your SSA come from your Cajun side?I've heard some Cajuns have some SSA input.

It's perfectly possible.. it's equally possible that I could have my SSA from my father's side of the family. They were slaveholders before the Civil War and they do kind of make much of their darker Atlantid skin.. maybe I'm too dismissive of what Dad's trying to say. I don't know.

[Sikeliot]

Couldn't your SSA come from your Cajun side?I've heard some Cajuns have some SSA input.

Would not have been there until they came to Louisiana probably. I actually wonder if his full SSA ancestor is more recent than mine (despite having less SSA) because Cape Verdeans have been mixing since the 1500s between Africans and Portuguese and I doubt a single person in Cape Verde has been purely African or European since the early slave trade. It is unlikely I could just go down one line directly to an unmixed person without going through generations of multigenerational mixed folk first, who had been that way for years.

But then again, Louisiana's population was the same way, with all of the mixed Creoles of color and whatnot. I guess there's no way to know though. :lol:

[Gooding]

Would not have been there until they came to Louisiana probably. I actually wonder if his full SSA ancestor is more recent than mine (despite having less SSA) because Cape Verdeans have been mixing since the 1500s between Africans and Portuguese and I doubt a single person in Cape Verde has been purely African or European since the early slave trade. It is unlikely I could just go down one line directly to an unmixed person without going through generations of multigenerational mixed folk first, who had been that way for years.

But then again, Louisiana's population was the same way, with all of the mixed Creoles of color and whatnot. I guess there's no way to know though. :lol:

Let me introduce you to the Atlantic Creoles!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Creole How much would you care to wager that the Daniels ( the darker skinned family the majority of the Goodings take after) had their genetic beginnings there? :)

[Dylan]

Really? That's interesting, seeing as how on my Speculative, I have 0.2% SSA ancestry and 0.2% Native American. I thought the NA was accounted for by Catherine Lejeune's mother, back in the early seventeenth century, but no account has been made for any possible black blood on my father's side of the family. I know it reads as 0.1% East African and 0.1% Broadly SSA..
Ancestry Composition tells you what percent of your DNA comes from each of 31 populations worldwide. This analysis includes DNA you received from all of your recent ancestors, on both sides of your family. The results reflect where your ancestors lived before the widespread migrations of the past few hundred years.

99.6% European

Northern European

56.5% British & Irish

16.0% French & German

3.3% Scandinavian

0.3% Finnish

22.2% Broadly Northern European

Southern European

0.3% Broadly Southern European

1.0% Broadly European

0.2% East Asian & Native American

0.2% Native American

0.2% Sub-Saharan African

0.1% East African
0.1% Broadly Sub-Saharan African

0.1% Unassigned

100% Andrew Gooding

I think Catherine Lejeune is in my family tree as well

[Dylan]

Let me introduce you to the Atlantic Creoles!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Creole How much would you care to wager that the Daniels ( the darker skinned family the majority of the Goodings take after) had their genetic beginnings there? :)

What percent Native American was Catherine Lejeune? She appears in my family tree multiple times

[Gooding]

What percent Native American was Catherine Lejeune? She appears in my family tree multiple times

I read somewhere that Catherine Lejeune was born to a Native American mother. Err.. I found something. I think we might be more Native American than we think.http://www.brasdorfirstnation.com/Study/Pierre_Lejeune.gif Mine, too. I descend from her daughters Andree and Jeanne Savoie. :) Also I descend from the Gaudets, so hey..

[Gooding]

One last bump and I'm off to bed. This has been fascinating. :)

[Dylan]

Yeah, but honestly admixture from that far back isn't really relevant.

in terms of identity, it is not. but there are other ways of looking at it that make it interesting.

[Dylan]

I read somewhere that Catherine Lejeune was born to a Native American mother. Err.. I found something. I think we might be more Native American than we think.http://www.brasdorfirstnation.com/Study/Pierre_Lejeune.gif Mine, too. I descend from her daughters Andree and Jeanne Savoie. :) Also I descend from the Gaudets, so hey..

I'm guessing I'm probably 3-5% Native American now, which is kinda cool. I'm already 3% from a more recent ancestor.

[Dylan]

Check for the math here.

23andme is conservative with its estimates for non-Caucasoid admixture, so say you have a person born in 1990 who has an unbroken line to one fully SSA ancestor. This individual born in 1990 has 0.2% non-Caucasoid ancestry on 23andme.

Now, pretend everyone in their family had children at age 25, and that ancestry divides evenly, which it does not. If everyone had kids at 20, it would be even more recent, like 1800 if not more recent.

Parent, 1965 birth: 0.4%
Grandparent, 1940: 0.8%
Great-grandparent, 1915: 1.6%
Great-great grandparent, 1890: 3.2%
Great-great-great grandparent, 1865: 6.4%
Great-great-great-great grandparent, 1840: 12.8%
Great-great-great-great-great grandparent, 1815: 25.6%
Great-great-great-great-great-great grandparent, 1790: ~50%
Great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparent, 1765: ~100% non-Caucasoid

My most recent fully non white ancestor lived from 1826 to 1894. I'm 3% Algonquin

[Sikeliot]

My most recent fully non white ancestor lived from 1826 to 1894. I'm 3% Algonquin

Cool :) I wonder how much of it would show up on 23andme. Your Native American is probably similar amounts to my currently alive relatives' African.

[Sikeliot]

in terms of identity, it is not. but there are other ways of looking at it that make it interesting.

These things are interesting more as talking points, or to explain the occurrence of throwback genes when you didn't expect a newborn to look as they do, etc.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

cool :cool:

[Petalpusher]

I have zero in either k12, k13 or k15. More interestingly i think is that i have the <0.1% east asian/native american on 23and instead of the usual MENA noise but it doesn't show up on gedmatch either, in these tree i get 0 Ameridian as well but 0.38% East Asian in K13 (not in k12/k15) so it seems it s more east asian noise. I was wondering if maybe colonials going back in Europe (there should have been) could have caused this, apparently it's not the case but i suspect it is For British with some non caucasoid noise along with some tiny oversea admixtures. I think it also shows you can have a sizeable amount of west med but no real SSA reading in the most relevant runs.

[Sikeliot]

I have zero in either k12, k13 or k15. More interestingly i think is that i have the <0.1% east asian/native american on 23and instead of the usual MENA noise but it doesn't show up on gedmatch either, in these tree i get 0 Ameridian as well but 0.38% East Asian in K13 (not in k12/k15) so it seems it s more east asian noise. I was wondering if maybe colonials going back in Europe (there should have been) could have caused this, apparently it's not the case but i suspect it is For British with some non caucasoid noise along with some tiny oversea admixtures. I think it also shows you can have a sizeable amount of west med but no real SSA reading in the most relevant runs.


SSA comes indirectly through North African ancestry for most southern Europeans, the exceptions being some Portuguese on the islands, Canarians, etc. who might have a small amount of recent SSA from slaves.

[Loki]

Very interesting!

[kelleyz]

Interesting findings. I'm curious to know at what point SSA ancestry would become irrelevant or at which point the SSA ancestry would become visible. There was supposedly a man with the surname Cobb who went on a TV show and undertook genetic testing and it was found he was 1/8th black, but did not look it.

[Sikeliot]

Interesting findings. I'm curious to know at what point SSA ancestry would become irrelevant or at which point the SSA ancestry would become visible. There was supposedly a man with the surname Cobb who went on a TV show and undertook genetic testing and it was found he was 1/8th black, but did not look it.

He tested before with other companies; what they told him on the air was just to make a mockery of him on live TV. He would not have been so certain to agree to the test if not.

My grandmother for instance will deny there is any SSA, however minor, and as such refused to test. :lol:

[Petalpusher]

SSA comes indirectly through North African ancestry for most southern Europeans, the exceptions being some Portuguese on the islands, Canarians, etc. who might have a small amount of recent SSA from slaves.

I get that, but if you get let's say 1% North african in some specific run to pick that kind of componenent, considering they would score maybe 10-15% SSA on average, it's still 0.x% in the end and way less people with a bit of real SSA plus any west med (everybody score some, even pure scando). At some point it's difficult to try to dig embedded admixtures in other components. If the genetic can discriminate the med from the North/East African, West African, SSA there is a reason, it doesn't really make sense to multiply virtually embedded admixture by assuming some is hiding in there or every component is hiding in every component in the first place (which might be the case if you go far back enough). Overall the important thing is to have the same scale for anyone to compare.

It's the bias of this whole SSA discussion, if it wasn't frown upon by most people we could as well do the same for any other admixture, with mongoloid admixture for example, but no one really care, we could see x time more than they have by considering some is embedded in Baltic or North Sea components, when it's usually very low for the most part.

[Sikeliot]

I get that, but if you get let's say 1% North african in some specific run to pick that kind of componenent, considering they would score maybe 10-15% SSA on average, it's still 0.x% in the end and way less people with a bit of real SSA plus any west med (everybody score some, even pure scando). At some point it's difficult to try to dig embedded admixtures in other components. If the genetic can discriminate the med from the North/East African, West African, SSA there is a reason, it doesn't really make sense to multiply virtually embedded admixture by assuming some is hiding in there or every component is hiding in every component in the first place (which might be the case if you go far back enough). Overall the important thing is to have the same scale for anyone to compare.


I agree. I usually go by one's raw SSA score (i.e. the SSA genes that can be differentiated readily from any indirect mixture, like North African). But some people dig for every last bit.

In mine and my mom's case, I score North African, she does not. Therefore her raw SSA score is very obvious, though it varies, on every calculator. Mine is not, but I don't bother calculating what is hidden.

[Longbowman]

It doesn't matter so much. You won't get exactly x% anyway, what matters is whatever percentage you have today. As you say, few Cape Verdeans have a pure African in the tree since before 1900, but they're still extremely African admixed. Similarly, Finns, Estonians, Samoyedics, Russians, and even some Ashkenazi will have significant, very significant, East Asian, but no one pure since the Golden Horde.

[Sikeliot]

As you say, few Cape Verdeans have a pure African in the tree since before 1900

More like 1600!

A genetic study was done on Cape Verde and found they ranged drastically in SSA scores, but no one above 90% African. Portuguese admixture, to some degree, exists in every Cape Verdean, from those who can just pass as white, to those who look to the eye like pure Africans.