Eastern European at 23andMe, Ancestry, and FTDNA

[Augustus27]

Hey all,

After having my autosomal DNA analyzed at 23andMe, Ancestry, and FTDNA I've had fairly consistent results across the board from all three companies. Now I know each company has different population samples and other methods of analyzing autosomal DNA, so I know it's to be expected that different results will occur. My main question here is regarding the Eastern European component of the three companies. I posted my results from all three down below and it seems that 23andMe detects the least Eastern European autosomal DNA, while Ancestry and FTDNA seem relatively close (8%-13%), which also follows in line with my paper trail of being 1/8th Polish.

Does 23andMe tend to underscore for Eastern European or is it just me? Forgive me if this topic has been discussed before, I am just really curious to what guys think.


Thanks


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[Sockorer]

From my personal experience its hard to say.

I know I'm at least 1/8 Polish and I get 11.3% Eastern European on speculative. If I go on standard mode it drops to 4.2% and if I go onto conservative I get none at all.


When using Eurogenes Mixed mode population sharing on Gedmatch I'll usually get something like,

56.4% Orcadian + 43.6% South_Polish @ 3.91

or

77.5% North_German + 22.5% Ukrainian @ 4

It shows me as way more Eastern European than 23andme does.


FTDNA seems a bit weird, but still generally gets my ancestry right,

I get 56% for the British Isles, 20% Eastern European,

The rest is like 5% per of the other European populations + Turkey.


I have found that these genetic calculators tend to get the whole picture right. But there seems to be quite a bit of variation between them. I imagine this is because they're using different populations to compare you with, different samples, and different methods for calculating ancestry. And also because there's a great deal of overlap between Europeans.

[Sockorer]

To directly answer your question, I think it does a little bit.

[Augustus27]

From my personal experience its hard to say.

I know I'm at least 1/8 Polish and I get 11.3% Eastern European on speculative. If I go on standard mode it drops to 4.2% and if I go onto conservative I get none at all.


When using Eurogenes Mixed mode population sharing on Gedmatch I'll usually get something like,

56.4% Orcadian + 43.6% South_Polish @ 3.91

or

77.5% North_German + 22.5% Ukrainian @ 4

It shows me as way more Eastern European than 23andme does.


FTDNA seems a bit weird, but still generally gets my ancestry right,

I get 56% for the British Isles, 20% Eastern European,

The rest is like 5% per of the other European populations + Turkey.


I have found that these genetic calculators tend to get the whole picture right. But there seems to be quite a bit of variation between them. I imagine this is because they're using different populations to compare you with, different samples, and different methods for calculating ancestry. And also because there's a great deal of overlap between Europeans.

So it seems like your 1/8th Polish ancestry is showing up much more than mine is at 23andMe, and a bit more at FTDNA. I'll have to try Eurogenes tests at Gedmatch to see what I get and if it's comparable to yours.

[Petalpusher]

In my observation 23andme underestimates it, especially when someone still plots in a very West Euro countries. It might look unsure so it ends up mostly in broadly, even in spec.

[Jana]

I don't think it does. I score 25% Eastern European on 23andme, and Croatian samples are included in ''Balkan'' group.

[Augustus27]

I don't think it does. I score 25% Eastern European on 23andme, and Croatian samples are included in ''Balkan'' group.

Perhaps maybe Polish can sometimes have some Germanic, Scandinavian, or Baltic influences, thus making it not always "Eastern" in population samples.

[Jana]

Perhaps maybe Polish can sometimes have some Germanic, Scandinavian, or Baltic influences, thus making it not always "Eastern" in population samples.

Very probable. You should seek pure Poles 23andme layout, and see how much non-eastern European they score. (it they were not taken as reference sample ofcourse)

[Augustus27]

Very probable. You should seek pure Poles 23andme layout, and see how much non-eastern European they score. (it they were not taken as reference sample ofcourse)

I might have to do that. It might shed some light. Have you taken autosomal DNA tests at Ancestry or FTDNA and received high Eastern European results, as you did with 23andMe?

[Jana]

I might have to do that. It might shed some light. Have you taken autosomal DNA tests at Ancestry or FTDNA and received high Eastern European results, as you did with 23andMe?

Nope, I only did 23andme. Bit on GEDmatch I score quite high :)

[Augustus27]

Nope, I only did 23andme. Bit on GEDmatch I score quite high :)

Gedmatch I've had significant "Eastern" numbers, but it all so depends on the test that you take there. I've always found their interpretation to be a bit too open for my taste, but finding correlation from them can be particularly useful. Is there a particular test that you would recommend? One of the Eurogenes one?

[Jana]

Gedmatch I've had significant "Eastern" numbers, but it all so depends on the test that you take there. I've always found their interpretation to be a bit too open for my taste, but finding correlation from them can be particularly useful. Is there a particular test that you would recommend? One of the Eurogenes one?

Yes, GEDmatch is excellent, but amateur work after all. For me it works really well.

Eurogenes K13 and K15 work best for Europeans imo, try Oracle mixed mode and 2,3,4, population references, you may find something there (if you haven't already). Good luck.

[Augustus27]

Yes, GEDmatch is excellent, but amateur work after all. For me it works really well.

Eurogenes K13 and K15 work best for Europeans imo, try Oracle mixed mode and 2,3,4, population references, you may find something there (if you haven't already). Good luck.

I've looked many times but there is always a chance that I missed something. Appreciate the help and feedback :)

[sql]

Just curious, what is your 1% non-Euro?

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://s12.postimg.org/m614n8uwt/slovenianumenor.png

I'm convinced our Eastern European breakdown is vastly underestimated on 23andme. They divide Slovenian samples from the rest of Balkans which is ridiculous because that makes Slovenia an isolate. It's sandwiched between Italy, Austria and Croatia. Are we supposed to believe that Slovenia is some kind of Eastern European island that maintained their Slavic purity despite their neighbors? I believe the simplest explanation is usually the right answer. In this case, it's 23andme underestimating Eastern European ancestry and that's the result of inventing the Balkan category. I can't wait for my AncestryDNA results because I'm definitely convinced 23andme has got it so wrong. If my results which is 68% "Balkan" on 23andme translates into something like 50% or more Eastern European on AncestryDNA then 23andme is definitely fucking with the results.

[Highlands]

Are we supposed to believe that Slovenia is some kind of Eastern European island that maintained their Slavic purity despite their neighbors?
Remember Stefan's thread "Balkan genetics", slovenians and bosniaks were the most eastern plotting.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Remember Stefan's thread "Balkan genetics", slovenians and bosniaks were the most eastern plotting.

I'm sure they're more Slavic than Bulgarians but it just further proves that the Balkan category is bullshit. Breaking down the Balkan category into Eastern European and Albania/Greece would just show how Slavic most Greeks are. I think that's why they invented the category.

[Jana]

http://s12.postimg.org/m614n8uwt/slovenianumenor.png

I'm convinced our Eastern European breakdown is vastly underestimated on 23andme. They divide Slovenian samples from the rest of Balkans which is ridiculous because that makes Slovenia an isolate. It's sandwiched between Italy, Austria and Croatia. Are we supposed to believe that Slovenia is some kind of Eastern European island that maintained their Slavic purity despite their neighbors? I believe the simplest explanation is usually the right answer. In this case, it's 23andme underestimating Eastern European ancestry and that's the result of inventing the Balkan category. I can't wait for my AncestryDNA results because I'm definitely convinced 23andme has got it so wrong. If my results which is 68% "Balkan" on 23andme translates into something like 50% or more Eastern European on AncestryDNA then 23andme is definitely fucking with the results.

Their divisions are quite poor, but remember that ''Eastern European'' doesn't mean Slavic genes. All kinds of admixture are included in it, and Slovenia is not isolated, it borders Hungary which is in Eastern European cathegory as well. In ''Balkan'' samples are Slavic, Old Balkan, Celtic etc component, it is simply labeled as such. GEDmatch works best to determine how Slavic, southern European or whatever you are. You should remmber that 23andme breakdown is a simple geographic one, and not genetic, except for isolated groups like Finns or Sardinians. IMO.

[Highlands]

Their divisions are quite poor, but remember that ''Eastern European'' doesn't mean Slavic genes. All kinds of admixture are included in it, and Slovenia is not isolated, it borders Hungary which is in Eastern European cathegory as well. In ''Balkan'' samples are Slavic, Old Balkan, Celtic etc component, it is simply labeled as such. GEDmatch works best to determine how Slavic, southern European or whatever you are. You should remmber that 23andme breakdown is a simple geographic one, and not genetic, except for isolated groups like Finns or Sardinians. IMO.

Good points. Also a lot of "Baltic" that south slavs score on eurogenes can be pre-slavic indo european. Many members use Albanian/Greeks results as an example of old balkan, but they will obviously be more varied than that.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Their divisions are quite poor, but remember that ''Eastern European'' doesn't mean Slavic genes. All kinds of admixture are included in it, and Slovenia is not isolated, it borders Hungary which is in Eastern European cathegory as well. In ''Balkan'' samples are Slavic, Old Balkan, Celtic etc component, it is simply labeled as such. GEDmatch works best to determine how Slavic, southern European or whatever you are. You should remmber that 23andme breakdown is a simple geographic one, and not genetic, except for isolated groups like Finns or Sardinians. IMO.

That's why I'm complaining because some people here are treating results from 23andme like gospel when it's obvious that there are tons of flaws with their ancestry composition. I decided to do an AncestryDNA test because their breakdown seem to be more pointed. I'm also curious if there will be a significant variation on GEDmatch when I upload my AncestryDNA raw file.

http://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/files/2014/03/Ethnicity-all-regions-map.png

[Dragoon]

For 23andme my brother got almost 70 Eastern European.
For ftdna I got 98 Eastern European.
So maybe you are on to something.

[Augustus27]

Just curious, what is your 1% non-Euro?

Pretty much Native American. Consistent across all 3 tests so I'm assuming it is actually real. But I have no real idea about it. Have some French Canadian roots so maybe that's where it comes from.

[Augustus27]

For 23andme my brother got almost 70 Eastern European.
For ftdna I got 98 Eastern European.
So maybe you are on to something.

Perhaps. But many people have said that they underestimate it, so might depend individual to individual.

[Peterski]

In my observation 23andme underestimates it, especially when someone still plots in a very West Euro countries. It might look unsure so it ends up mostly in broadly, even in spec.

^^^ I agree with that.

Which is probably why Poles usually get the same % of "North Slavic" in DNA.Land as their % of "East Euro" in 23andMe, but Westerners usually tend to get more "North Slavic" than "East Euro".

As it seems, 23andMe tend to label such admixtures as "Broadly something".