Lord of the Rings discussion thread

[Proctor]

Post what you think about LOTR in this thread, your theories, your favorite parts, anything.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxgsxaFWWHQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKU0qDpu3AM

My personal theory is that Tom Bombadil is Eru Ilúvatar, he is the god of the Lord of the Rings universe, either that or a Valar. The way he acts, his powers, his stoicism and absolute disregard and uncaring attitude towards the ring makes me think he is the one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRVIVJjuaHE

[Gooding]

Gandalf was a pain in Bilbo's ass at the very beginning, but later on Bilbo grew to respect and maybe even like him a little. Oh, Samwell was twice the man Frodo was.

[Smitty]

Gollum is possibly one of the most humorous characters ever written. Very ingenious.

[Proctor]

Gollum is possibly one of the most humorous characters ever written. Very ingenious.

Tolkien was a very meticulous writer, that's why I like him so much. He wrote A LOT and still managed to keep it interesting the whole way through.

[Smitty]

Tolkien was a very meticulous writer, that's why I like him so much. He wrote A LOT and still managed to keep it interesting the whole way through.

Yes, he's very engaging. I'm not the type to really get "into" a story, but Tolkien is an exception.

[Proctor]

http://memeguy.com/photos/images/tom-bombadil-65702.jpg

[Proctor]

Here's a fun fact: Legolas only talks to Frodo once throughout every single LOTR movie to say "and my sword" when offering to help Frodo destroy the ring. No two female characters ever speak to each other as well.

[Proctor]

Beautiful quote by Tolkien

“It is with this gift of freedom that the children of Men dwell only a short space in the world alive and are not bound to it, and depart soon whither the Elves know not. Whereas the Elves remain until the end of days, and their love of the Earth and all the world is more single and more poignant therefore, and as the years lengthen ever more sorrowful. For the Elves die not till the world dies, unless they are slain or waste in grief (and to both these seeming deaths they are subject); neither does age subdue their strength, unless one grow weary of ten thousand centuries; and dying they are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return. But the sons of Men die indeed, and leave the world; wherefore they are called the Guests, or the Strangers. Death is their fate, the gift of Iluvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy.” -Silmarillion

[Neon Knight]

Aieee! A balrog is come!

[Hecate360]

The Silmarillion is my favorite of all of Tolkien's works. I even liked it better than LOTR. It was beautifully written. That said, I wonder if Peter Jackson read it, cuz he's got the Elves looking like frilly-willy frou-frou ladies, eating raw veggies and being all soft and wimpy. Are you kidding me? Read the Silmarillion! Sure the Elves were beautiful and graceful, but they could fuck you up shit creek. And there is a passage where somebody went hunting with Orome. Don't ask me who right now, cuz I'm not getting off this couch. But that would prove to me they hunted for food and therefore ate meat. Not backyard weeds and grass. Pretty sure if you handed a plate of that to an Elf, he would break the plate over your head. That being said, I bet anything the Elves' music of choice woulda been metal. I can so see them windmilling at an outdoor show, the band's instruments powered by the sun itself. Yeah, they'd like classical, too. Lots of metalheads do. Yeah, i can rage on and on about all this shit that doesn't exist lol. Share your thoughts! I love discussing Tolkien. \m/

[Hecate360]

Oh, but I did forget to mention: Thranduil was an Elf done right. I CAN credit Peter Jackson with Thranduil. He's every bit the bad-ass take-no-shit Elf I read about in the Silmarillion. So there's that. Thusly he is my favorite Elf as far as the movies go. And I bet he would be hitting up every Opeth concert on the face of the planet, too.

[Neon Knight]

The Silmarillion is my favorite of all of Tolkien's works. I even liked it better than LOTR. It was beautifully written. That said, I wonder if Peter Jackson read it, cuz he's got the Elves looking like frilly-willy frou-frou ladies, eating raw veggies and being all soft and wimpy. Are you kidding me? Read the Silmarillion! Sure the Elves were beautiful and graceful, but they could fuck you up shit creek. And there is a passage where somebody went hunting with Orome. Don't ask me who right now, cuz I'm not getting off this couch. But that would prove to me they hunted for food and therefore ate meat. Not backyard weeds and grass. Pretty sure if you handed a plate of that to an Elf, he would break the plate over your head. That being said, I bet anything the Elves' music of choice woulda been metal. I can so see them windmilling at an outdoor show, the band's instruments powered by the sun itself. Yeah, they'd like classical, too. Lots of metalheads do. Yeah, i can rage on and on about all this shit that doesn't exist lol. Share your thoughts! I love discussing Tolkien. \m/

The elves would like gothic and operatic metal, the dwarves would like melodic doom, Gondor would be trad 80s metal, Rohan power metal and the orcs would be into thrash and death (but black metal for the Uruk Hai) while hobbits would be satisfied with melodic hard rock.

[Proctor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbLKjO2ImGo

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

I don't want to be polemic, but some people here would place J.R.R Tolkien as the same level of shakespeare, Tolstoi or goethe. Tolkien it's not classical literature, its just cult literature, dont behave like buthurts geeks.

[Hecate360]

Haha yes! Man, this makes me think of Christopher Lee. That dude kicked ass. I'm so glad he was cast in LOTR. I even JUST found out my son shares his birthday. Right before he died T_T. Dammit. Plus he was a metalhead, hell yeah!

[Proctor]

Haha yes! Man, this makes me think of Christopher Lee. That dude kicked ass. I'm so glad he was cast in LOTR. I even JUST found out my son shares his birthday. Right before he died T_T. Dammit. Plus he was a metalhead, hell yeah!

The birthday of a legend, Christopher Lee was the shit!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305viYB-G1U

[Dzihadovic]

Here's a fun fact: Legolas only talks to Frodo once throughout every single LOTR movie to say "and my sword" when offering to help Frodo destroy the ring. No two female characters ever speak to each other as well.

You mean my bow? :D
And there's a few scenes where female characters talk to each other. Like when that mother sends her 2 kids away in the Two Towers, one of the is a girl that she says something to.

[Dzihadovic]

God this is such a beautiful song. :cry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5CIpMFo4Q

[mazikeen]

God this is such a beautiful song. :cry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5CIpMFo4Q
The soundtrack of the film adaptation is amazing...

[Proctor]

You mean my bow? :D
And there's a few scenes where female characters talk to each other. Like when that mother sends her 2 kids away in the Two Towers, one of the is a girl that she says something to.

You got me haha, damn I need to sharpen my knowledge about the movies more now! :laugh:

[Svipdag]

The epilogue in the Shire at the end of "The Return of the King" may be necessary to tie up loose ends, but it is very much of an anticlimax.

[Proctor]

The epilogue in the Shire at the end of "The Return of the King" may be necessary to tie up loose ends, but it is very much of an anticlimax.

After the last movie comes the age of man. I think it was rather satisfying.

[Aodhan]

The birthday of a legend, Christopher Lee was the shit!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305viYB-G1U

R.I.P
forever...

[Anglojew]

Does it bug anyone else that Samwell Tarly in Game of Thrones is such an obviously rip-off of Samwise Gamgee in LOTRs?

[Dzihadovic]

Does it bug anyone else that Samwell Tarly in Game of Thrones is such an obviously rip-off of Samwise Gamgee in LOTRs?

Did you know that apparently Tolkien based the dwarves on Jews? :D
There's a quote from about it and everything.
Not implying anything, just wanted to share that. :)

[Proctor]

Did you know that apparently Tolkien based the dwarves on Jews? :D
There's a quote from about it and everything.
Not implying anything, just wanted to share that. :)

Who were the elves based off of? Did Tolkien ever say?

[Dzihadovic]

Who were the elves based off of? Did Tolkien ever say?

Not sure but apparently Hobbits are English, lol.

"The dwarves of course are quite obviously - wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic. Hobbits are just rustic English people, made small in size because it reflects (in general) the small reach of their imagination - not the small reach of their courage or latent power."

[Prism]

Truely one of the best trilogies out there, I have all three films on DVD and have watched them at least three times each. I've also got the Two Towers extended limited edition version with about 100 minutes of extra content. J.R.R. Tolkien really created such a rich universe with a fascinating storyline. I have read The Hobbit and The Two Towers.

My favourite character as a child was always Aragorn, I saw him as sort of rebel, mysterious yet a good guy, he is first introduced as the "lone ranger" and he gave off a vibe as bad guy seeking redemption, although he wasn't, but still it came off that way.

As a child I was a super nerd with LOTR, I mean I had seen all the films, had them on DVD, wouldn't shut up about the trilogy, plus I owned all the PS2 games made based on the films and I played them nearly every saturday morning between the ages of 8-12.

My favourite part, hmm that's a hard question, there are too many to count, for example the introduction of the fellowship, Frodo is sitting by a tree and Gandalf arrives and the LOTR Shire theme plays, man that just warms my heart, or the part where Gandalf fights Malrog and falls into the chasm, or when he returns for the first time as Gandalf The White, when Boromir dies, or when Gollum is first introduced to the Hobbits, there is too much to count xD.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xal1wjko2ig

[Proctor]

Truely one of the best trilogies out there, I have all three films on DVD and have watched them at least three times each. I've also got the Two Towers extended limited edition version with about 100 minutes of extra content. J.R.R. Tolkien really created such a rich universe with a fascinating storyline. I have read The Hobbit and The Two Towers.

My favourite character as a child was always Aragorn, I saw him as sort of rebel, mysterious yet a good guy, he is first introduced as the "lone ranger" and he gave off a vibe as bad guy seeking redemption, although he wasn't, but still it came off that way.

As a child I was a super nerd with LOTR, I mean I had seen all the films, had them on DVD, wouldn't shut up about the trilogy, plus I owned all the PS2 games made based on the films and I played them nearly every saturday morning between the ages of 8-12.

My favourite part, hmm that's a hard question, there are too many to count, for example the introduction of the fellowship, Frodo is sitting by a tree and Gandalf arrives and the LOTR Shire theme plays, man that just warms my heart, or the part where Gandalf fights Malrog and falls into the chasm, or when he returns for the first time as Gandalf The White, when Boromir dies, or when Gollum is first introduced to the Hobbits, there is too much to count xD.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xal1wjko2ig

You should read the silmarillion man! There is so much more to the story. Here's the audiobook:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFp0eDKc8CM

and that video you posted made me laugh :laugh: reminds me of some of the arguments I get into in real life sometimes

[Prism]

You should read the silmarillion man! There is so much more to the story. Here's the audiobook:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFp0eDKc8CM

and that video you posted made me laugh :laugh: reminds me of some of the arguments I get into in real life sometimes

Yeah I definitely will. I'm going to read the full trilogy when I have some time, I also got a book on my 13th birthday called the children of hurin, which I must read too.

Haha yes it's brilliant, I used get into arguments with my friends when I was younger Harry Potter vs LOTR xD. Now that he is older he admits Harry Potter cannot even be compared to "The Trilogy" as they call it in Clerks II.

[Dombra]

The epilogue in the Shire at the end of "The Return of the King" may be necessary to tie up loose ends, but it is very much of an anticlimax.

I did not think of it as an anticlimax, the destruction of the ring is the real climactic moment as the bigger conflict is resolved there :) Scouring of the shire is just the full lenth of an actual heroes journey, something that is rarely done properly

[Proctor]

I did not think of it as an anticlimax, the destruction of the ring is the real climactic moment as the bigger conflict is resolved there :) Scouring of the shire is just the full lenth of an actual heroes journey, something that is rarely done properly

All done by a few little hobbits nonetheless. Makes it all the better.

[Neon Knight]

The epilogue in the Shire at the end of "The Return of the King" may be necessary to tie up loose ends, but it is very much of an anticlimax.

I think the first film is about 20 minutes too long at the beginning (all the Shire stuff) and the third film, like you say, too long at the end.

[Neon Knight]

My favourite scene in the film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrCvgiQGh1o

My main criticism of LOTR is the hobbits themselves. Realistically, they would not survive, being either killed by monsters or enslaved by humans. Gollum, as well, I find to be an unrealistic character, a kind of pantomime villain. Also, at the end, Frodo's resilience to Sauron's power actually fails him and it is only Gollum's crazed intervention which results in the destruction of the ring.

[Proctor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4tLuJ-Q0nQ

[Neon Knight]

This is an excellent illustrated encyclopedia type book on Tolkien's works:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61a-lq-WseL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/tolkien-book-store/images/000711d.jpg

[Hydromorphone]

My favourite scene in the film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrCvgiQGh1o

My main criticism of LOTR is the hobbits themselves. Realistically, they would not survive, being either killed by monsters or enslaved by humans. Gollum, as well, I find to be an unrealistic character, a kind of pantomime villain. Also, at the end, Frodo's resilience to Sauron's power actually fails him and it is only Gollum's crazed intervention which results in the destruction of the ring.

The way it climaxed was a poignant piece on the corruptability of man, I think, possibly even a comment on the necessity of strong and true friendships. The ring eventually corrupted Frodo at the very end, and only by chance did the world get saved. At one point, Samwise offered to take the yoke of the ring from Frodo but he resisted. You can kind of interpret that as someone who wields an absolute power being unwilling to share it. Of course, it is "Frodos Burden" so I understand why that happened, but perhaps Frodo letting Samwise take it to Mt.Doom, he would have been able to finally throw it into the pit, having been burdened by it less time and able to part with it more easily. I don't think it's necessarily unrealistic, I'd actually argue it is a realistic piece. When you stand at the precipice of something like that in those do-or-die situations, many people will do something that naturally contradicts their deeply held beliefs/whatever.

And of course, not all fiction is meant to be wholly realistic. It wouldn't be an epic if Frodo had simply been stabbed at some battle or slipped in the shower at an Inn on his way to Rivendell. A completion of the entire tale, as in LOTR, means it's going to be a whole story. Although countless times through history, we have seen absolutely unbelievable tales of heroes aided seemingly by fate in a series of consecutive coincidences that almost seem impossible. Sure, it doesn't happen. The average person donning armour in the middle ages doesn't always come home, and in his old age, write a tale of the ages. But immortalized in many stories and history books we've seen crazy things.

It's best to simply think of LOTR like that.

[Svipdag]

I have often wondered why the Elven smiths of Eregion didn't create an Anti-One-Ring ring. It was from them, after all, that Sauron learned to create Rings of Power.

[Svipdag]

Tolkien's own attitude toward the Elves changed between "The Hobbit" and LOTR. The Elves of Rivendell are pretty silly, very different from the high, though flawed, (as shown in the Silmarillion) nobility which they manifest in LOTR.

[Scholarios]

This is an excellent illustrated encyclopedia type book on Tolkien's works:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61a-lq-WseL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/tolkien-book-store/images/000711d.jpg

I never heard anyone with a nice thing to say about David Day's books, to be sure. But I bought and enjoyed (twice) his Tolkien encyclopedia when I was a wee lad.


Tolkien's own attitude toward the Elves changed between "The Hobbit" and LOTR. The Elves of Rivendell are pretty silly, very different from the high, though flawed, (as shown in the Silmarillion) nobility which they manifest in LOTR.


Hi Svipdag, long time no "see".

I think the issue is that the elves of the Hobbit are not the elves of the Silmarillion originally. Only later did Tolkien retroactively place "There and Back Again" within the mythology of the 'Elder Days" he had been working on previously. ( during and after publishing Lord of the Rings, in fact)



I don't much approve of The Hobbit myself, preferring my own mythology (which is just touched on) with its consistent nomenclature — Elrond, Gondolin, and Esgaroth have escaped out of it — and organized history, to this rabble of Eddaic-named dwarves out of Völuspá, newfangled hobbits and gollums (invented in an idle hour) and Anglo-Saxon runes. My elves have a more gracious and cunning alphabet which appears on the pots of gold in one of the coloured illustrations of the American edition.2) …And Smaug is of course connected with smjuga since Icelandic was in a foolish moment substituted for the proper language of my tales.3) — JRRT to G. E. Selby, December 14th 1937)

and much clearer later, he is more specific.


by the time The Hobbit appeared (1937) this 'matter of the Elder Days' [i.e., The Silmarillion] was in coherent form. The Hobbit was not intended to have anything to do with it … It had no necessary connexion with the 'mythology', but naturally became attracted towards this dominant construction in my mind,5) causing the tale to become larger and more heroic as it proceeded. Even so it could really stand quite apart, except for the references (unnecessary, though they give an impression of historical depth) to the Fall of Gondolin … the branches of the Elfkin … and the quarrel of King Thingol, Lúthien's father, with the Dwarves …
The passage … relating [Elrond] to the Half-elven of the mythology was a fortunate accident, due to the difficulty of constantly inventing good names for new characters. I gave him the name Elrond casually, but as this came from the mythology (Elros and Elrond the two sons of Eärendel) I made him half-elven. Only in The Lord was he identified with the son of Eärendel, and so the great-grandson of Lúthien and Beren, a great power and a Ringholder. — JRRT to Christopher Bretherton, July 16th 1964; Letters p. 346–347

I'd say it seems to have worked out quite well, though.

[Neon Knight]

The way it climaxed was a poignant piece on the corruptability of man, I think, possibly even a comment on the necessity of strong and true friendships. The ring eventually corrupted Frodo at the very end, and only by chance did the world get saved. At one point, Samwise offered to take the yoke of the ring from Frodo but he resisted. You can kind of interpret that as someone who wields an absolute power being unwilling to share it. Of course, it is "Frodos Burden" so I understand why that happened, but perhaps Frodo letting Samwise take it to Mt.Doom, he would have been able to finally throw it into the pit, having been burdened by it less time and able to part with it more easily. I don't think it's necessarily unrealistic, I'd actually argue it is a realistic piece. When you stand at the precipice of something like that in those do-or-die situations, many people will do something that naturally contradicts their deeply held beliefs/whatever.

And of course, not all fiction is meant to be wholly realistic. It wouldn't be an epic if Frodo had simply been stabbed at some battle or slipped in the shower at an Inn on his way to Rivendell. A completion of the entire tale, as in LOTR, means it's going to be a whole story. Although countless times through history, we have seen absolutely unbelievable tales of heroes aided seemingly by fate in a series of consecutive coincidences that almost seem impossible. Sure, it doesn't happen. The average person donning armour in the middle ages doesn't always come home, and in his old age, write a tale of the ages. But immortalized in many stories and history books we've seen crazy things.

It's best to simply think of LOTR like that.

I wasn't saying the events of the story were unrealistic, but the character of Gollum and the situation of the meek hobbits in a hostile world. I prefer the Silmarillion in that way.

[Neon Knight]

Tolkien's own attitude toward the Elves changed between "The Hobbit" and LOTR. The Elves of Rivendell are pretty silly, very different from the high, though flawed, (as shown in the Silmarillion) nobility which they manifest in LOTR.

J.R.R. Tolkien - On Fairy-Stories (1947):

"Yet I suspect that this flower-and-butterfly minuteness was also a product of 'rationalization', which transformed the glamour of Elfland into mere finesse, and invisibility into a fragility that could hide in a cowslip or shrink behind a blade of grass. It seems to become fashionable soon after the great voyages had begun to make the world seem too narrow to hold both men and elves."

[Hydromorphone]

I wasn't saying the events of the story were unrealistic, but the character of Gollum and the situation of the meek hobbits in a hostile world. I prefer the Silmarillion in that way.

Oh true, my good friend. Either way I'd still say that it's almost necessary for much of fiction to be unrealistic in some aspects to tell an engaging story, but that's still a valid point.

[Neon Knight]

Oh true, my bad friend. Either way I'd still say that it's almost necessary for much of fiction to be unrealistic in some aspects to tell an engaging story, but that's still a valid point.
Yeah - there is a balance to be struck between drama and believability. I still very much like LotR overall, despite my criticisms.

Bad friend? :confused:

[Hydromorphone]

Yeah - there is a balance to be struck between drama and believability. I still very much like LOTR overall, despite my criticisms.

Bad friend? :confused:

Holy shit, I don't know what happened there, but I genuinely meant to type "my good friend". :lol: I honestly have no idea how bad got in there. Must be one of those things where if you're distracted you type weird things. I remember a few years ago on an old forum I was writing "blah blah you pay the price" and I wrote "blah blah you play the pussy". Strange

[Neon Knight]

I remember the first time I got The Hobbit aged 13 from a library. The original green and black cover and the map - it was magical.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Hobbit_cover.JPG

[Svipdag]

I never heard anyone with a nice thing to say about David Day's books, to be sure. But I bought and enjoyed (twice) his Tolkien encyclopedia when I was a wee lad.




Hi Svipdag, long time no "see".

I think the issue is that the elves of the Hobbit are not the elves of the Silmarillion originally. Only later did Tolkien retroactively place "There and Back Again" within the mythology of the 'Elder Days" he had been working on previously. ( during and after publishing Lord of the Rings, in fact)




and much clearer later, he is more specific.



I'd say it seems to have worked out quite well, though.

I'd say that that is a bit of an understatement.

[Hydromorphone]

I remember the first time I got The Hobbit aged 13 from a library. The original green and black cover and the map - it was magical.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Hobbit_cover.JPG

We actually read the Hobbit up here in Canada when my class was in Gr.8 / gradeschool. I'm sure a lot went over our head as we were only 13 but it was a pretty crazy and fun experience to read such a cultured and fantastic book at such a young age. It was definitely above the regular fare you usually have to read as part of the generalized curriculum at that age or grade level.

Although sadly we had the new cover, which was all black with Smaug gilded red at the bottom, I believe. I prefer the older/more classic cover you posted.

[Proctor]

I still wonder about who the hell is Tom Bombadil actually :D

He is an enigma


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZouiWmzWoY

[i'llseeyouinhell]

That trilogy...I don't know how many times i watch it but i can still watch it with excitement.