England and the Celtic Fringe

[Gooding]

It is 2015 and Scotland had decided recently that it was better together with England and Wales than it would have been on its own. Northern Ireland is always a complicated matter and frankly, America seems to be fifty years out of date in its ideas about GB and her people. As an American, I'm as much a product of my culture as anybody else, reared with stories about the horrors of the aftermath of Culloden and the unprovoked massacre of Glencoe of an entire sept of Clan Donald, I wonder how a regular American tourist could make his way around England and the areas of Scotland and Wales without making a perfect ass of himself.
We speak English, but there is about 400 years of discrepancies between the types of English spoken in the United Kingdom and the types of English spoken in North America.
So, socially, the best thing an American could probably do is keep quiet and learn if a local Briton would choose to make conversation with him. How, then should such an American view the current relations between England and the areas of Wales and Scotland? Is it a friendly rivalry, like between fans of competing sports teams, or is it still white- hot hatred? How can an American avoid treading on the toes of a Briton who is proud of his ethnic roots, be they English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, or some mixture of two or more of the above? I suppose studying current social affairs in the United Kingdom before making the trip would help. This is just an idle question.. I'm not sure I'll ever have the wherewithal to travel overseas, but in case there's a radical change in circumstance, it would be nice to know how one could be an unobtrusive tourist.

[Gooding]

Bumping the question up.

[Mars06]

Outside of Ireland, it's not some very sensitive social issue. People aren't be killed over Scottish and Welsh independence. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Gooding]

Outside of Ireland, it's not some very sensitive social issue. People aren't be killed over Scottish and Welsh independence. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Fair enough. So, you reckon Scottish or Welsh independence may come up again as an option anytime soon?

[Jägerstaffel]

I wonder how a regular American tourist could make his way around England and the areas of Scotland and Wales without making a perfect ass of himself.

Many do it all the time. Have some respect for yourself, Gooding. You don't have to "keep quiet" when you're on a trip wringing your hands that you might make some minor social faux pas! Enjoy yourself, visit what you'd like to visit, speak with anyone you'd like to.

If you're that worried - my suggestion would be to avoid politics, religion and behaving as if you know more than the locals - the same advice I'd give anyone in almost any situation anywhere.

[Neon Knight]

Fair enough. So, you reckon Scottish or Welsh independence may come up again as an option anytime soon?

The matter of Scottish independence could be back on the agenda in a few years, but there is no significant call for or prospect of Welsh independence.

[Graham]

Was speaking to an American the other week & she hadn't a clue what i was saying. Honestly, felt like a language problem.

You should visit though! We like tourists. Scots are the friendliest people in Britain. :dev

[Graham]

Personality of Britain: 'Scots friendliest and Welsh least emotionally stable'
Hannah Osborne By Hannah Osborne
March 25, 2015 00:00 GMT 44 12
(http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/personality-britain-scots-friendliest-welsh-least-emotionally-stable-1493353)

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1430395/scotland-wales.jpg?w=736
Scots are the friendliest people in Britain, while Welsh are least emotionally stable, study finds(Getty Images)

Scottish people are among the friendliest and most co-operative in Britain, while the Welsh are the least emotionally stable, a study has found.

A survey of around 400,000 people in Britain showed significant differences in personalities across different regions, with University of Cambridge scientists gathering data from the Big Personality Test – an online survey published by the BBC in 2009.

Their findings, published in the journal PLOS One, looked at five personality traits – extraversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, emotional stability and openness. It analysed people from England, Wales and Scotland – Northern Ireland was excluded because the sample of respondents was too small.

Findings showed that extroverts – who tend to be more energetic, enthusiastic and assertive – were concentrated in London, Manchester and small parts of Scotland, Yorkshire and the south and south east of England. The least extroverted (or most reserved and introverted) people were found in the East Midlands, Wales, Humberside, the north of England and east Scotland.

Agreeable people, who are friendly, trusting and cooperative, were found in Scotland. Londoners and people in the east of England were rated lowest on this, suggesting they were quarrelsome, irritable and uncooperative.

People who had high levels of conscientiousness were found in southern England, parts of the Midlands and the Scottish Highlands, while London, Wales and parts of north England were found to be disorderly, rebellious and indifferent.

The Welsh were also found to be emotionally unstable, with significantly low levels seen throughout the country and a number of districts in the Midlands. In comparison, emotionally stable people were found in the south west and southern England and Scotland.

Openness was linked with creativity, curiosity and imagination, with 'open' people living unconventional lifestyles and supporting liberal attitudes. These people were found in metropolitan areas such as London, Oxford, Bristol, Manchester and Glasgow.

Low levels of openness were found in the East Midlands and east England – suggesting people there tend to be conventional, traditional and down-to-earth.

Commenting on the study, Jason Rentfrow said: "Understanding how personality traits differ by region is more than just a bit of fun. Geographical differences are associated with a range of economic, social and health outcomes – and hence how important resources are allocated.

"Although participants in an online test are self-selecting, the demographic characteristics are representative of the British population, so we can develop an accurate snapshot of the psychology of the nation."

[Vladimir Putin]

Americans don't speak English, lol no. But a kinda Webster murica language. Don't worry you will speak Mexican-Spanish in 30 yrs

[Graham]

Fair enough. So, you reckon Scottish or Welsh independence may come up again as an option anytime soon?

Probably...

Anyway I know a place you could visit.. Have been there it's nice. Especially the wee detour round the South part of Skye.

http://www.clandonald.com/visit-us/museum-of-the-isles/

[Neon Knight]

If you do visit, always stick to the paths and never trust a man whose eyebrows meet in the middle.

https://parlorofhorror.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/an-american-werewolf-in-london-pic-2.jpg?w=398&h=223

[Gooding]

If you do visit, always stick to the paths and never trust a man whose eyebrows meet in the middle.

https://parlorofhorror.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/an-american-werewolf-in-london-pic-2.jpg?w=398&h=223

I'll be sure to keep a sharp eye out if I'm ever able to cross the Atlantic ( my sister visited London awhile back and Mom and Dad took a trip to Carcassonne for one of Dad's business meetings. I'm the only member of my immediate family who's never taken the hop overseas). I'll want to see Glenmoriston because according to my cousin Steve, the McDonalds we come from are MacDonalds of the Glengarry and Keppoch sept who are connected to the MacDonalds of the Glenmoriston area. I'll also want to visit southwestern England.

[Gooding]

Was speaking to an American the other week & she hadn't a clue what i was saying. Honestly, felt like a language problem.

You should visit though! We like tourists. Scots are the friendliest people in Britain. :dev

I'd definitely need to visit Scotland on any planned trip to the United Kingdom. The West Country of England also has priority. :thumb001:

[Gooding]

Many do it all the time. Have some respect for yourself, Gooding. You don't have to "keep quiet" when you're on a trip wringing your hands that you might make some minor social faux pas! Enjoy yourself, visit what you'd like to visit, speak with anyone you'd like to.

If you're that worried - my suggestion would be to avoid politics, religion and behaving as if you know more than the locals - the same advice I'd give anyone in almost any situation anywhere.

You present a very good point. Of course I wouldn't just be sightseeing, I'd be trying to learn more about various cultures and their similarities and differences in relation to my own. The best thing to be is at ease, I suppose.

[Grace O'Malley]

Oxford dictionary definition of Celtic Fringe

Definition of Celtic fringe in English:

noun


The Highland Scots, Irish, Welsh, and Cornish in relation to the rest of Britain.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Celtic-fringe

the people in Ireland and western parts of Britain whose ancestors were Celts, often used to refer to Ireland, Scotland and Wales

http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/the-celtic-fringe

[Graham]

It is 2015 and Scotland had decided recently that it was better together with England and Wales than it would have been on its own.

Then we were stabbed in the back under the Smith Commission and again in May. Politicians saying stay and you'll get devo max anyway( didn't happen). There's a reason why the SNP are on 60% in polls now. But it's ignored down South.

Old people were told their pensions would be cancelled, foreigners were told they'd have to leave, we'd be banned from the EU, England would put up border posts to stop trade. There was more to it & I wouldn't go on about it being better together. Osbourne is going to hurt us in the next few years.


What I mean is that dont use the term better together.

[Gooding]

Then we were stabbed in the back under the Smith Commission and again in May. Politicians saying stay and you'll get devo max anyway( didn't happen). There's a reason why the SNP are on 60% in polls now. But it's ignored down South.

Old people were told their pensions would be cancelled, foreigners were told they'd have to leave, we'd be banned from the EU, England would put up border posts to stop trade. There was more to it & I wouldn't go on about it being better together. Osbourne is going to hurt us in the next few years.


What I mean is that dont use the term better together.
I won't. I'd personally been cheering for Scottish independence since I heard that there was a referendum coming up. My Scottish ancestors were exiled from your homeland for trying to prevent the situation you're living under now. When I heard the results of your poll, I shook my head, but understanding that I'm on the outside looking in, I figured the voters there knew better what they were about than I did. It seemed that a lot of people bowed to what amounted to emotional blackmail and threats, but, again, I wouldn't discuss the issues of politics or my personal take on the whole thing among a group in their own land, understanding myself to be a tourist and guest on your soil. Old James McDonald fought the British with unrelenting vigor in the late 1770s, he'd escape after each defeat and reenlist in a Carolina militia to fight them again and I knew he wouldn't have battled like that unless he had a damned good reason. Most of the McDonalds I know are a very peaceful lot, who might offer a mild complaint about this or that every now and again, but hardly get violent. No, politics would be out of my ken and away from the discussion.

[Bezprym]

Sorry for "interfering", but I got a similar question: are the Isle of Man, Orkney Islands and Shetland Islands a nice places to visit? :)

[Gooding]

Sorry for "interfering", but I got a similar question: are the Isle of Man, Orkney Islands and Shetland Islands a nice places to visit? :)

How is a contribution an interference? :) I only apologized on that other thread because I thought I got caught in the middle of some online feud between Xenophobic Prussian and Chloe on a Czech/ Albanian matter. I wonder how the ethnic Czechs are reacting to that, anyway? Back to it, though, I'd imagine all those places would be beautiful ones to visit. I imagine the Northern Isles are a bit more Norse in their orientation than the rest of the British Isles, though.

[Gooding]

Bump.

[Bezprym]

How is a contribution an interference? :) I only apologized on that other thread because I thought I got caught in the middle of some online feud between Xenophobic Prussian and Chloe on a Czech/ Albanian matter. I wonder how the ethnic Czechs are reacting to that, anyway? Back to it, though, I'd imagine all those places would be beautiful ones to visit. I imagine the Northern Isles are a bit more Norse in their orientation than the rest of the British Isles, though.

I haven't seen it. Well, I've seen the topic, but left without response - I wasn't referring to you. Just my question may be a bit offtopic :p

Yeah, I like such places. Due to the climate and populity. Quite cool Summer, and quite warm Winter. Here I have extremes: freaking heat in Summer, freaking frost in Winter. I prefer something stable. :)

[Graham]

Sorry for "interfering", but I got a similar question: are the Isle of Man, Orkney Islands and Shetland Islands a nice places to visit? :)

I cant speak for the Isle of Man. Northern Isles weather is horrible. But from what I know of the friendly hospitality & the archaeology makes up for it.

I'd recommend the Western Isles.

[Graham]

I won't. I'd personally been cheering for Scottish independence since I heard that there was a referendum coming up. My Scottish ancestors were exiled from your homeland for trying to prevent the situation you're living under now. When I heard the results of your poll, I shook my head, but understanding that I'm on the outside looking in, I figured the voters there knew better what they were about than I did. It seemed that a lot of people bowed to what amounted to emotional blackmail and threats, but, again, I wouldn't discuss the issues of politics or my personal take on the whole thing among a group in their own land, understanding myself to be a tourist and guest on your soil. Old James McDonald fought the British with unrelenting vigor in the late 1770s, he'd escape after each defeat and reenlist in a Carolina militia to fight them again and I knew he wouldn't have battled like that unless he had a damned good reason. Most of the McDonalds I know are a very peaceful lot, who might offer a mild complaint about this or that every now and again, but hardly get violent. No, politics would be out of my ken and away from the discussion.

Haha sorry was in a bad mood before work after reading this link. They keep on trolling us. It's cool now..
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/union-flag-appear-driving-licences-celebration-%E2%80%98one-nation-britain%E2%80%99

[Bezprym]

I cant speak for the Isle of Man. Northern Isles weather is horrible. But from what I know of the friendly hospitality & the archaeology makes up for it.

I'd recommend the Western Isles.

By horrible you mean rain and wind? :)

[Graham]

By horrible you mean rain and wind? :)

Wind mostly. It is very windy! Wonder if that's why my ancestors left Shetland. :P

[Gooding]

Wind mostly. It is very windy! Wonder if that's why my ancestors left Shetland. :P

You're a Shetlander! Awesome! I've never corresponded with a person of Shetlandic origins as far as I know. What do you know of that region of your country??

[Graham]

You're a Shetlander! Awesome! I've never corresponded with a person of Shetlandic origins as far as I know. What do you know of that region of your country??

No, only my great gran( Coutts) was from Shetland.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/44832_466229925420_123061_n.jpg?oh=f2daa9ec5ddb9b8 f5db65bf0f2e69393&oe=561D7CF3

[Longbowman]

I've never perceived a serious culture clash within the UK, certainly no violence (NI excluded).

[Bezprym]

Wind is not that bad. :) I like rain too. I would appreciate such weather, when it is ~30 Celsius degrees now here. :ohwell:

[Graham]

Wind is not that bad. :) I like rain too. I would appreciate such weather, when it is ~30 Celsius degrees now here. :ohwell:

Well many Polish live in Scotland( or across the UK), & even the Highlands & Islands. They've adapted fine.

[Valmont]

I used to live in Scotland at the time of the referendum and could have voted in it (I chose not to as I am not Scottish and therefore thought I shouldn't have a word in the matter). Scots are indeed one of the friendliest people in Europe even though I have met a lot who despise English lads. As my accent is very Americanized I have encountered the occasional black eye, but people became much friendlier when they learnt I was French. They told me to lose that "dreadful accent" several times though.
The French and the Scots love each other has they have a "common ennemy": the English.

I am of course only talking about a minority. Scotland is one of the most welcoming (and beautiful) places in the world.

[Bezprym]

Well many Polish live in Scotland( or across the UK), & even the Highlands & Islands.

Oh. This may be actually a reason to avoid such places.

[Longbowman]

I used to live in Scotland at the time of the referendum and could have voted in it (I chose not to as I am not Scottish and therefore thought I shouldn't have a word in the matter). Scots are indeed one of the friendliest people in Europe even though I have met a lot who despise English lads. As my accent is very Americanized I have encountered the occasional black eye, but people became much friendlier when they learnt I was French. They told me to lose that "dreadful accent" several times though.
The French and the Scots love each other has they have a "common ennemy": the English.

I am of course only talking about a minority. Scotland is one of the most welcoming (and beautiful) places in the world.

People punched you for [supposedly] being American?

You should have come to England.

[Longbowman]

Well many Polish live in Scotland( or across the UK), & even the Highlands & Islands. They've adapted fine.

The majority are in London, however.

[Gooding]

It must be nice to live so close to so many varied and ancient cultural centers.. if you want Slavic culture, you get in you car and drive to Poland, Russia or the Balkans.. if you want Celtic culture, you drive North or West, hop a ferry and visit Ireland's Gaeltacht. If you want Norse culture, again, you take a boat to Norway. German flair? Drive the Channel tunnel and you have Germany, Austria and Switzerland for the choosing. If you want France, you could probably just visit Jersey for a taste of Normandy, or drive a few hours to Provence. I'm absolutely jealous, but in an admiring way.. :)

[Graham]

Oh. This may be actually a reason to avoid such places.

haha. ;)


The majority are in London, however.

Everyone lives in London.

[Valmont]

People punched you for [supposedly] being American?

You should have come to England.

No one ever punched me (except for this drunk homeless guy who tried once in Gorgie, but he hated everyone). I meant that some people occasionally gave me dirty looks because of my accent.

[Longbowman]

It must be nice to live so close to so many varied and ancient cultural centers.. if you want Slavic culture, you get in you car and drive to Poland, Russia or the Balkans.. if you want Celtic culture, you drive North or West, hop a ferry and visit Ireland's Gaeltacht. If you want Norse culture, again, you take a boat to Norway. German flair? Drive the Channel tunnel and you have Germany, Austria and Switzerland for the choosing. If you want France, you could probably just visit Jersey for a taste of Normandy, or drive a few hours to Provence. I'm absolutely jealous, but in an admiring way.. :)

Why go to the Gaeltacht? They're scattered, tiny and dying. Wales is superior in every respect. For Slavic culture, just go to South London ;)

Jersey isn't much like France.

[Catkin]

It must be nice to live so close to so many varied and ancient cultural centers.. if you want Slavic culture, you get in you car and drive to Poland, Russia or the Balkans.. if you want Celtic culture, you drive North or West, hop a ferry and visit Ireland's Gaeltacht. If you want Norse culture, again, you take a boat to Norway. German flair? Drive the Channel tunnel and you have Germany, Austria and Switzerland for the choosing. If you want France, you could probably just visit Jersey for a taste of Normandy, or drive a few hours to Provence. I'm absolutely jealous, but in an admiring way.. :)

Yes, that was something I missed when I lived in New Zealand :). So many different places, and so much history, so close by. Flights are pretty cheap, or as you say, you can drive. I'm thinking of maybe going for a drive about some of Europe this summer. Because places are quite close, you can even just go for a day trip. I flew to Ireland for the day last year, and once did a day trip to France with my school. At least it means when you do your trip to Europe you could get to see a few places :).

[Gooding]

Yes, that was something I missed when I lived in New Zealand :). So many different places, and so much history, so close by. Flights are pretty cheap, or as you say, you can drive. I'm thinking of maybe going for a drive about some of Europe this summer. Because places are quite close, you can even just go for a day trip. I flew to Ireland for the day last year, and once did a day trip to France with my school. At least it means when you do your trip to Europe you could get to see a few places :).
Well, people tell me that I still have time.. if I had the money the trip would have already been taken. England and Scotland are priorities for me, followed by France and Germany. I would like to see the rest of it too, but we'll just have to see what happens when it happens. :)

[Gooding]

Why go to the Gaeltacht? They're scattered, tiny and dying. Wales is superior in every respect. For Slavic culture, just go to South London ;)

Jersey isn't much like France.

I am eager to see all this firsthand, but I still need to apply for a passport, stabilize my economy here in the US.. there's much to do.

[LightHouse89]

I've never perceived a serious culture clash within the UK, certainly no violence (NI excluded).

In Northern and Southern Ireland I sensed unusual views with the people there...although in the South less so [as in the Republic of Ireland]....Northern Ireland was meh....a bit different but both the catholics and protestants were friendly to foreigners or tourists. I will admit its kind of boring and the only thing to do there is drink or drive along the coast. After that you have seen Ireland.

[LightHouse89]

The majority are in London, however.

Remove Kielbasa!

[Catkin]

Well, people tell me that I still have time.. if I had the money the trip would have already been taken. England and Scotland are priorities for me, followed by France and Germany. I would like to see the rest of it too, but we'll just have to see what happens when it happens. :)

Do you know any old women you could mug? That's generally how I get my spending money :o

Congratulations on your modship by the way. You really deserve it, you're such a peacemaker, I can't imagine you ever getting angry :)

[zhaoyun]

Gooding, I think you are putting too much thought into this. When I was in the UK, I had no problems having all sorts of conversations with people. Actually, I think the British are far more accustomed to offensive political rhetoric than Americans are, so considering how polite you are approaching the issue, I doubt you would raise any rancor there.

[Alially]

Britania has lots of immigrants, so they need themselves

[Gooding]

Do you know any old women you could mug? That's generally how I get my spending money :o

Congratulations on your modship by the way. You really deserve it, you're such a peacemaker, I can't imagine you ever getting angry :)

LOL, no, Catkin, I'll get there, but I'll have to do it on my own. :) Thanks for the congrats, by the way. I try to be decent online just like I try to be decent in real life. I think it takes some pushing, but it's certainly possible to anger me, but I hope I have enough self- control to not let it influence my judgment. :)