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Lulletje Rozewater
07-26-2010, 09:02 AM
Morality and Abstract Thinking

How Africans may differ from Westerners
by Gedaliah Braun
I am an American who taught philosophy in several African universities from 1976 to 1988, and have lived since that time in South Africa. When I first came to Africa, I knew virtually nothing about the continent or its people, but I began learning quickly. I noticed, for example, that Africans rarely kept promises and saw no need to apologize when they broke them. It was as if they were unaware they had done anything that called for an apology.
It took many years for me to understand why Africans behaved this way but I think I can now explain this and other behavior that characterizes Africa. I believe that morality requires abstract thinking—as does planning for the future—and that a relative deficiency in abstract thinking may explain many things that are typically African.
What follow are not scientific findings. There could be alternative explanations for what I have observed, but my conclusions are drawn from more than 30 years of living among Africans.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/01a-StopMobViolence.jpg A public service billboard in South Africa. Note old tire and gas can. My first inklings about what may be a deficiency in abstract thinking came from what I began to learn about African languages. In a conversation with students in Nigeria I asked how you would say that a coconut is about halfway up the tree in their local language. “You can’t say that,” they explained. “All you can say is that it is ‘up’.” “How about right at the top?” “Nope; just ‘up’.” In other words, there appeared to be no way to express gradations.
A few years later, in Nairobi, I learned something else about African languages when two women expressed surprise at my English dictionary. “Isn’t English your language?” they asked. “Yes,” I said. “It’s my only language.” “Then why do you need a dictionary?”
They were puzzled that I needed a dictionary, and I was puzzled by their puzzlement. I explained that there are times when you hear a word you’re not sure about and so you look it up. “But if English is your language,” they asked, “how can there be words you don’t know?” “What?” I said. “No one knows all the words of his language.”
I have concluded that a relative deficiency in abstract thinking may explain many things that are typically African. “But we know all the words of Kikuyu; every Kikuyu does,” they replied. I was even more surprised, but gradually it dawned on me that since their language is entirely oral, it exists only in the minds of Kikuyu speakers. Since there is a limit to what the human brain can retain, the overall size of the language remains more or less constant. A written language, on the other hand, existing as it does partly in the millions of pages of the written word, grows far beyond the capacity of anyone to know it in its entirety. But if the size of a language is limited, it follows that the number of concepts it contains will also be limited and hence that both language and thinking will be impoverished.
African languages were, of necessity, sufficient in their pre-colonial context. They are impoverished only by contrast to Western languages and in an Africa trying to emulate the West. While numerous dictionaries have been compiled between Euro*pean and African languages, there are few dictionaries within a single African language, precisely because native speakers have no need for them. I did find a Zulu-Zulu dictionary, but it was a small-format paperback of 252 pages.
My queries into Zulu began when I rang the African Language Department at the University of Witwatersrand in Johannesburg and spoke to a white guy. Did “precision” exist in the Zulu language prior to European contact? “Oh,” he said, “that’s a very Eurocentric question!” and simply wouldn’t answer. I rang again, spoke to another white guy, and got a virtually identical response.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/03a-KikuyuWoman.jpg Kikuyu women do not need dictionaries. So I called the University of South Africa, a large correspondence university in Pretoria, and spoke to a young black guy. As has so often been my experience in Africa, we hit it off from the start. He understood my interest in Zulu and found my questions of great interest. He explained that the Zulu word for “precision” means “to make like a straight line.” Was this part of indigenous Zulu? No; this was added by the compilers of the dictionary.
But, he assured me, it was otherwise for “promise.” I was skeptical. How about “obligation?” We both had the same dictionary (English-Zulu, Zulu-English Dictionary, published by Witwatersrand University Press in 1958), and looked it up. The Zulu entry means “as if to bind one’s feet.” He said that was not indigenous but was added by the compilers. But if Zulu didn’t have the concept of obligation, how could it have the concept of a promise, since a promise is simply the oral undertaking of an obligation? I was interested in this, I said, because Africans often failed to keep promises and never apologized—as if this didn’t warrant an apology.
A light bulb seemed to go on in his mind. Yes, he said; in fact, the Zulu word for promise—isithembiso—is not the correct word. When a black person “promises” he means “maybe I will and maybe I won’t.” But, I said, this makes nonsense of promising, the very purpose of which is to bind one to a course of action. When one is not sure he can do something he may say, “I will try but I can’t promise.” He said he’d heard whites say that and had never understood it till now. As a young Romanian friend so aptly summed it up, when a black person “promises” he means “I’ll try.”
The failure to keep promises is therefore not a language problem. It is hard to believe that after living with whites for so long they would not learn the correct meaning, and it is too much of a coincidence that the same phenomenon is found in Nigeria, Kenya and Papua New Guinea, where I have also lived. It is much more likely that Africans generally lack the very concept and hence cannot give the word its correct meaning. This would seem to indicate some difference in intellectual capacity.
Note the Zulu entry for obligation: “as if to bind one’s feet.” An obligation binds you, but it does so morally, not physically. It is an abstract concept, which is why there is no word for it in Zulu. So what did the authors of the dictionary do? They took this abstract concept and made it concrete. Feet, rope, and tying are all tangible and observable, and therefore things all blacks will understand, whereas many will not understand what an obligation is. The fact that they had to define it in this way is, by itself, compelling evidence for my conclusion that Zulu thought has few abstract concepts and indirect evidence for the view that Africans may be deficient in abstract thinking.
Abstract thinking
Abstract entities do not exist in space or time; they are typically intangible and can’t be perceived by the senses. They are often things that do not exist. “What would happen if everyone threw rubbish everywhere?” refers to something we hope will not happen, but we can still think about it.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/03b-AfricanWoodCarving.jpg Everything we observe with our senses occurs in time and everything we see exists in space; yet we can perceive neither time nor space with our senses, but only with the mind. Precision is also abstract; while we can see and touch things made with precision, precision itself can only be perceived by the mind.
How do we acquire abstract concepts? Is it enough to make things with precision in order to have the concept of precision? Africans make excellent carvings, made with precision, so why isn’t the concept in their language? To have this concept we must not only do things with precision but must be aware of this phenomenon and then give it a name.
How, for example, do we acquire such concepts as belief and doubt? We all have beliefs; even animals do. When a dog wags its tail on hearing his master’s footsteps, it believes he is coming. But it has no concept of belief because it has no awareness that it has this belief and so no awareness of belief per se. In short, it has no self-consciousness, and thus is not aware of its own mental states.
It has long seemed to me that blacks tend to lack self-awareness. If such awareness is necessary for developing abstract concepts it is not surprising that African languages have so few abstract terms. A lack of self-awareness—or introspection—has advantages. In my experience neurotic behavior, characterized by excessive and unhealthy self-consciousness, is uncommon among blacks. I am also confident that sexual dysfunction, which is characterized by excessive self-consciousness, is less common among blacks than whites.
Time is another abstract concept with which Africans seem to have difficulties. I began to wonder about this in 1998. Several Africans drove up in a car and parked right in front of mine, blocking it. “Hey,” I said, “you can’t park here.” “Oh, are you about to leave?” they asked in a perfectly polite and friendly way. “No,” I said, “but I might later. Park over there”—and they did.
While the possibility that I might want to leave later was obvious to me, their thinking seemed to encompass only the here and now: “If you’re leaving right now we understand, but otherwise, what’s the problem?” I had other such encounters and the key question always seemed to be, “Are you leaving now?” The future, after all, does not exist. It will exist, but doesn’t exist now. People who have difficulty thinking of things that do not exist will ipso facto have difficulty thinking about the future.
It appears that the Zulu word for “future”—isikhati—is the same as the word for time, as well as for space. Realistically, this means that these concepts probably do not exist in Zulu thought. It also appears that there is no word for the past—meaning, the time preceding the present. The past did exist, but no longer exists. Hence, people who may have problems thinking of things that do not exist will have trouble thinking of the past as well as the future.
This has an obvious bearing on such sentiments as gratitude and loyalty, which I have long noticed are uncommon among Africans. We feel gratitude for things that happened in the past, but for those with little sense of the past such feelings are less likely to arise.
Why did it take me more than 20 years to notice all of this? I think it is because our assumptions about time are so deeply rooted that we are not even aware of making them and hence the possibility that others may not share them simply does not occur to us. And so we don’t see it, even when the evidence is staring us in the face.
Mathematics and maintenance
I quote from an article in the South African press about the problems blacks have with mathematics:

“[Xhosa] is a language where polygon and plane have the same definition … where concepts like triangle, quadrilateral, pentagon, hexagon are defined by only one word.” (“Finding New Languages for Maths and Science,” Star [Johannesburg], July 24, 2002, p. 8.)
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/04a-Apartheid.jpg Apartheid-era sign post. More accurately, these concepts simply do not exist in Xhosa, which, along with Zulu, is one of the two most widely spoken languages in South Africa. In America, blacks are said to have a “tendency to approximate space, numbers and time instead of aiming for complete accuracy.” (Star, June 8, 1988, p.10.) In other words, they are also poor at math. Notice the identical triumvirate—space, numbers, and time. Is it just a coincidence that these three highly abstract concepts are the ones with which blacks — everywhere — seem to have such difficulties?
The entry in the Zulu dictionary for “number,” by the way — ningi — means “numerous,” which is not at all the same as the concept of number. It is clear, therefore, that there is no concept of number in Zulu.
White rule in South Africa ended in 1994. It was about ten years later that power outages began, which eventually reached crisis proportions. The principle reason for this is simply lack of maintenance on the generating equipment. Maintenance is future-oriented, and the Zulu entry in the dictionary for it is ondla, which means: “1. Nourish, rear; bring up; 2. Keep an eye on; watch (your crop).” In short, there is no such thing as maintenance in Zulu thought, and it would be hard to argue that this is wholly unrelated to the fact that when people throughout Africa say “nothing works,” it is only an exaggeration.
The New York Times reports that New York City is considering a plan (since implemented) aimed at getting blacks to “do well on standardized tests and to show up for class,” by paying them to do these things and that could “earn [them] as much as $500 a year.” Students would get money for regular school attendance, every book they read, doing well on tests, and sometimes just for taking them. Parents would be paid for “keeping a full-time job … having health insurance … and attending parent-teacher conferences.” (Jennifer Medina, “Schools Plan to Pay Cash for Marks,” New York Times, June 19, 2007.)
The clear implication is that blacks are not very motivated. Motivation involves thinking about the future and hence about things that do not exist. Given black deficiencies in this regard, it is not surprising that they would be lacking in motivation, and having to prod them in this way is further evidence for such a deficiency.
The Zulu entry for “motivate” is banga, under which we find “1. Make, cause, produce something unpleasant; … to cause trouble . … 2. Contend over a claim; … fight over inheritance; … 3. Make for, aim at, journey towards … .” Yet when I ask Africans what banga means, they have no idea. In fact, no Zulu word could refer to motivation for the simple reason that there is no such concept in Zulu; and if there is no such concept there cannot be a word for it. This helps explain the need to pay blacks to behave as if they were motivated.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/04b-Zulus.jpg Zulus. The same New York Times article quotes Darwin Davis of the Urban League as “caution that the … money being offered [for attending class] was relatively paltry … and wondering … how many tests students would need to pass to buy the latest video game.”
Instead of being shamed by the very need for such a plan, this black activist complains that the payments aren’t enough! If he really is unaware how his remarks will strike most readers, he is morally obtuse, but his views may reflect a common understanding among blacks of what morality is: not something internalized but something others enforce from the outside. Hence his complaint that paying children to do things they should be motivated to do on their own is that they are not being paid enough.
In this context, I recall some remarkable discoveries by the late American linguist, William Stewart, who spent many years in Senegal studying local languages. Whereas Western cultures internalize norms—“Don’t do that!” for a child, eventually becomes “I mustn’t do that” for an adult—African cultures do not. They rely entirely on external controls on behavior from tribal elders and other sources of authority. When Africans were detribalized, these external constraints disappeared, and since there never were internal constraints, the results were crime, drugs, promiscuity, etc. Where there have been other forms of control—as in white-ruled South Africa, colonial Africa, or the segregated American South—this behavior was kept within tolerable limits. But when even these controls disappear there is often unbridled violence.
Stewart apparently never asked why African cultures did not internalize norms, that is, why they never developed moral consciousness, but it is unlikely that this was just a historical accident. More likely, it was the result of deficiencies in abstract thinking ability.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/05a-Rape1.jpg Public service message, South Africa. One explanation for this lack of abstract thinking, including the diminished understanding of time, is that Africans evolved in a climate where they could live day to day without having to think ahead. They never developed this ability because they had no need for it. Whites, on the other hand, evolved under circumstances in which they had to consider what would happen if they didn’t build stout houses and store enough fuel and food for the winter. For them it was sink or swim.
Surprising confirmation of Stewart’s ideas can be found in the May/June 2006 issue of the Boston Review, a typically liberal publication. In “Do the Right Thing: Cognitive Science’s Search for a Common Morality,” Rebecca Saxe distinguishes between “conventional” and “moral” rules. Conventional rules are supported by authorities but can be changed; moral rules, on the other hand, are not based on conventional authority and are not subject to change. “Even three-year-old children … distinguish between moral and conventional transgressions,” she writes. The only exception, according to James Blair of the National Institutes of Health, are psychopaths, who exhibit “persistent aggressive behavior.” For them, all rules are based only on external authority, in whose absence “anything is permissible.” The conclusion drawn from this is that “healthy individuals in all cultures respect the distinction between conventional … and moral [rules].”
However, in the same article, another anthropologist argues that “the special status of moral rules cannot be part of human nature, but is … just … an artifact of Western values.” Anita Jacobson-Widding, writing of her experiences among the Manyika of Zimbabwe, says:

“I tried to find a word that would correspond to the English concept of ‘morality.’ I explained what I meant by asking my informants to describe the norms for good behavior toward other people. The answer was unanimous. The word for this was [I]tsika. But when I asked my bilingual informants to translate tsika into English, they said that it was ‘good manners’ …”
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/05b-FreeTreatment.jpg An all-too-common problem. She concluded that because good manners are clearly conventional rather than moral rules, the Manyika simply did not have a concept of morality. But how would one explain this absence? Miss Jacobson-Widding’s explanation is the typical nonsense that could come only from a so-called intellectual: “the concept of morality does not exist.” The far more likely explanation is that the concept of morality, while otherwise universal, is enfeebled in cultures that have a deficiency in abstract thinking.
According to now-discredited folk wisdom, blacks are “children in adult bodies,” but there may be some foundation to this view. The average African adult has the raw IQ score of the average 11-year-old white child. This is about the age at which white children begin to internalize morality and no longer need such strong external enforcers.
Gruesome cruelty
Another aspect of African behavior that liberals do their best to ignore but that nevertheless requires an explanation is gratuitous cruelty. A reviewer of Driving South, a 1993 book by David Robbins, writes:
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/06a-RwandanVictim.jpg Victim of Rwandan violence.
“A Cape social worker sees elements that revel in violence … It’s like a cult which has embraced a lot of people who otherwise appear normal. … At the slightest provocation their blood-lust is aroused. And then they want to see death, and they jeer and mock at the suffering involved, especially the suffering of a slow and agonizing death.” (Citizen [Johannesburg], July 12, 1993, p.6.) There is something so unspeakably vile about this, something so beyond depravity, that the human brain recoils. This is not merely the absence of human empathy, but the positive enjoyment of human suffering, all the more so when it is “slow and agonizing.” Can you imagine jeering at and mocking someone in such horrible agony?
During the apartheid era, black activists used to kill traitors and enemies by “necklacing” them. An old tire was put around the victim’s neck, filled with gasoline, and—but it is best to let an eye-witness describe what happened next:

“The petrol-filled tyre is jammed on your shoulders and a lighter is placed within reach . … Your fingers are broken, needles are pushed up your nose and you are tortured until you put the lighter to the petrol yourself.” (Citizen; “SA’s New Nazis,” August 10, 1993, p.18.) The author of an article in the Chicago Tribune, describing the equally gruesome way the Hutu killed Tutsi in the Burundi massacres, marveled at “the ecstasy of killing, the lust for blood; this is the most horrible thought. It’s beyond my reach.” (“Hutu Killers Danced In Blood Of Victims, Videotapes Show,” Chicago Tribune, September 14, 1995, p.8.) The lack of any moral sense is further evidenced by their having videotaped their crimes, “apparently want to record … [them] for posterity.” Unlike Nazi war criminals, who hid their deeds, these people apparently took pride in their work.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/06b-BiehlMarker.jpg Where Amy Biehl was killed. In 1993, Amy Biehl, a 26-year-old American on a Fulbright scholarship, was living in South Africa, where she spent most of her time in black townships helping blacks. One day when she was driving three African friends home, young blacks stopped the car, dragged her out, and killed her because she was white. A retired senior South African judge, Rex van Schalkwyk, in his 1998 book One Miracle is Not Enough, quotes from a newspaper report on the trial of her killers: “Supporters of the three men accused of murdering [her] … burst out laughing in the public gallery of the Supreme Court today when a witness told how the battered woman groaned in pain.” This behavior, Van Schalkwyk wrote, “is impossible to explain in terms accessible to rational minds.” (pp. 188-89.)
These incidents and the responses they evoke—“the human brain recoils,” “beyond my reach,” “impossible to explain to rational minds” — represent a pattern of behavior and thinking that cannot be wished away, and offer additional support for my claim that Africans are deficient in moral consciousness.
I have long suspected that the idea of rape is not the same in Africa as elsewhere, and now I find confirmation of this in Newsweek:

“According to a three-year study [in Johannesburg] … more than half of the young people interviewed — both male and female — believe that forcing sex with someone you know does not constitute sexual violence … [T]he casual manner in which South African teens discuss coercive relationships and unprotected sex is staggering.” (Tom Masland, “Breaking The Silence,” [I]Newsweek, July 9, 2000.)
Clearly, many blacks do not think rape is anything to be ashamed of.
The Newsweek author is puzzled by widespread behavior that is known to lead to AIDS, asking “Why has the safe-sex effort failed so abjectly?” Well, aside from their profoundly different attitudes towards sex and violence and their heightened libido, a major factor could be their diminished concept of time and reduced ability to think ahead.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/07a-Rape5.jpg Liberian billboard Nevertheless, I was still surprised by what I found in the Zulu dictionary. The main entry for rape reads: “1. Act hurriedly; … 2. Be greedy. 3. Rob, plunder, … take [possessions] by force.” While these entries may be related to our concept of rape, there is one small problem: there is no reference to sexual intercourse! In a male-dominated culture, where saying “no” is often not an option (as confirmed by the study just mentioned), “taking sex by force” is not really part of the African mental calculus. Rape clearly has a moral dimension, but perhaps not to Africans. To the extent they do not consider coerced sex to be wrong, then, by our conception, they cannot consider it rape because rape is wrong. If such behavior isn’t wrong it isn’t rape.
An article about gang rape in the left-wing British paper, the Guardian, confirms this when it quotes a young black woman: “The thing is, they don’t see it as rape, as us being forced. They just see it as pleasure for them.” (Rose George, “They Don’t See it as Rape. They Just See it as Pleasure for Them,” June 5, 2004.) A similar attitude seems to be shared among some American blacks who casually refer to gang rape as “running a train.” (Nathan McCall, Makes Me Wanna Holler, Vintage Books, 1995.)
If the African understanding of rape is far afield, so may be their idea of romance or love. I recently watched a South African television program about having sex for money. Of the several women in the audience who spoke up, not a single one questioned the morality of this behavior. Indeed, one plaintively asked, “Why else would I have sex with a man?”
From the casual way in which Africans throw around the word “love,” I suspect their understanding of it is, at best, childish. I suspect the notion is alien to Africans, and I would be surprised if things are very different among American blacks. Africans hear whites speak of “love” and try to give it a meaning from within their own conceptual repertoire. The result is a child’s conception of this deepest of human emotions, probably similar to their misunderstanding of the nature of a promise.
I recently located a document that was dictated to me by a young African woman in June 1993. She called it her “story,” and the final paragraph is a poignant illustration of what to Europeans would seem to be a limited understanding of love:

“On my way from school, I met a boy. And he proposed me. His name was Mokone. He tell me that he love me. And then I tell him I will give him his answer next week. At night I was crazy about him. I was always thinking about him.”
[B]Moral blindness
Whenever I taught ethics I used the example of Alfred Dreyfus, a Jewish officer in the French Army who was convicted of treason in 1894 even though the authorities knew he was innocent. Admitting their mistake, it was said, would have a disastrous effect on military morale and would cause great social unrest. I would in turn argue that certain things are intrinsically wrong and not just because of their consequences. Even if the results of freeing Dreyfus would be much worse than keeping him in prison, he must be freed, because it is unjust to keep an innocent man in prison.
To my amazement, an entire class in Kenya said without hesitation that he should not be freed. Call me dense if you want, but it was 20 years before the full significance of this began to dawn on me.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/07b-AfricanFuneralHome.jpg Death is certain but accidents are not. Africans, I believe, may generally lack the concepts of subjunctivity and counterfactuality. Subjunctivity is conveyed in such statements as, “What would you have done if I hadn’t showed up?” This is contrary to fact because I did show up, and it is now impossible for me not to have shown up. We are asking someone to imagine what he would have done if something that didn’t happen (and now couldn’t happen) had happened. This requires self-consciousness, and I have already described blacks’ possible deficiency in this respect. It is obvious that animals, for example, cannot think counterfactually, because of their complete lack of self-awareness.
When someone I know tried to persuade his African workers to contribute to a health insurance policy, they asked “What’s it for?” “Well, if you have an accident, it would pay for the hospital.” Their response was immediate: “But boss, we didn’t have an accident!” “Yes, but what if you did?” Reply? “We didn’t have an accident!” End of story.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/08a-South-Africa-Illustrations-Truckers-Against-AIDS.jpg South African AIDS education poster. Interestingly, blacks do plan for funerals, for although an accident is only a risk, death is a certainty. (The Zulu entries for “risk” are “danger” and “a slippery surface.”) Given the frequent all-or-nothing nature of black thinking, if it’s not certain you will have an accident, then you will not have an accident. Furthermore, death is concrete and observable: We see people grow old and die. Africans tend to be aware of time when it is manifested in the concrete and observable.
One of the pivotal ideas underpinning morality is the Golden Rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. “How would you feel if someone stole everything you owned? Well, that’s how he would feel if you robbed him.” The subjunctivity here is obvious. But if Africans may generally lack this concept, they will have difficulty in understanding the Golden Rule and, to that extent, in understanding morality.
If this is true we might also expect their capacity for human empathy to be diminished, and this is suggested in the examples cited above. After all, how do we empathize? When we hear about things like “necklacing” we instinctively — and unconsciously — think: “How would I feel if I were that person?” Of course I am not and cannot be that person, but to imagine being that person gives us valuable moral “information:” that we wouldn’t want this to happen to us and so we shouldn’t want it to happen to others. To the extent people are deficient in such abstract thinking, they will be deficient in moral understanding and hence in human empathy—which is what we tend to find in Africans.
In his 1990 book Devil’s Night, Ze’ev Chafets quotes a black woman speaking about the problems of Detroit: “I know some people won’t like this, but whenever you get a whole lot of black people, you’re gonna have problems. Blacks are ignorant and rude.” (pp. 76-77.)
If some Africans cannot clearly imagine what their own rude behavior feels like to others—in other words, if they cannot put themselves in the other person’s shoes—they will be incapable of understanding what rudeness is. For them, what we call rude may be normal and therefore, from their perspective, not really rude. Africans may therefore not be offended by behavior we would consider rude — not keeping appointments, for example. One might even conjecture that African cruelty is not the same as white cruelty, since Africans may not be fully aware of the nature of their behavior, whereas such awareness is an essential part of “real” cruelty.
I am hardly the only one to notice this obliviousness to others that sometimes characterizes black behavior. Walt Harrington, a white liberal married to a light-skinned black, makes some surprising admissions in his 1994 book, Crossings: A White Man’s Journey Into Black America:

“I notice a small car … in the distance. Suddenly … a bag of garbage flies out its window . … I think, I’ll bet they’re blacks. Over the years I’ve noticed more blacks littering than whites. I hate to admit this because it is a prejudice. But as I pass the car, I see that my reflex was correct—[they are blacks].
“[As I pull] into a McDonald’s drive-through … [I see that] the car in front of me had four black[s] in it. Again … my mind made its unconscious calculation: We’ll be sitting here forever while these people decide what to order. I literally shook my head . … My God, my kids are half black! But then the kicker: we waited and waited and waited. Each of the four … leaned out the window and ordered individually. The order was changed several times. We sat and sat, and I again shook my head, this time at the conundrum that is race in America.
“I knew that the buried sentiment that had made me predict this disorganization … was … racist. … But my prediction was right.” (pp. 234-35.)
Africans also tend to litter. To understand this we must ask why whites don’t litter, at least not as much. We ask ourselves: “What would happen if everyone threw rubbish everywhere? It would be a mess. So you shouldn’t do it!” Blacks’ possible deficiency in abstract thinking makes such reasoning more difficult, so any behavior requiring such thinking is less likely to develop in their cultures. Even after living for generations in societies where such thinking is commonplace, many may still fail to absorb it.
http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/02/08b-AfricanTrash.jpg A trash pile in Sudan. It should go without saying that my observations about Africans are generalizations. I am not saying that none has the capacity for abstract thought or moral understanding. I am speaking of tendencies and averages, which leave room for many exceptions.
To what extent do my observations about Africans apply to American blacks? American blacks have an average IQ of 85, which is a full 15 points higher than the African average of 70. The capacity for abstract thought is unquestionably correlated with intelligence, and so we can expect American blacks generally to exceed Africans in these respects.
Still, American blacks show many of the traits so striking among Africans: low mathematical ability, diminished abstract reasoning, high crime rates, a short time-horizon, rudeness, littering, etc. If I had lived only among American blacks and not among Africans, I might never have reached the conclusions I have, but the more extreme behavior among Africans makes it easier to perceive the same tendencies among American blacks. http://www.amren.com/ar/graphics/textend.gif
Gedhalia Braun holds a PhD in philosophy and is the author of Racism, Guilt, Self-Hatred and Self-Deceit. Anyone interested in reading his book can purchase it in PDF format at the AR website, AmRen.com.

Tony
07-26-2010, 09:15 PM
I honestly find this article pretty gross and thought for a moment it were sarcastic , if you ever happened to talk to a negro you would understand he's just less developed , mentally speaking , than us but that doesn't mean they're some sort of ape men.
In the past , before comin' into contact with pur modern world , negroes used to live quite well because they lived accordingly to their own nature , they had a folklore tradition , some sort of art , cultivated a great amount of plants and bred animals , and of course went hunt , all things that requires logical/forecastin' skills.
The real point of no return has been when they got colonized and tasted modernity and then have been abandoned by Europeans.
Unable to self sustain themselves they have later fallen in the present state of subhuman misery.
The anedoct of the car means nothing , african lifestyle is more based on social relationships than ours , more individual focused , parking a car just in front of yours when there is free space next could also simply mean they inconsciously want to find an excuse to make you out and start a brief talk.

Osweo
07-26-2010, 10:55 PM
This is of some relevance (and a little wider than simply 'Black/Rest of Humanity);
Orality, Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orality


McLuhan, in his work The Gutenberg Galaxy[2] shows how each stage in the development of this technology throughout the history of communication – from the invention of speech (primary orality), to pictograms, to the phonetic alphabet, to typography, to the electronic communications of today – restructures human consciousness, profoundly changing not only the frontiers of human possibility, but even the frontiers it is possible for humans to imagine.

[edit] Primary orality
‘Primary orality’ refers to thought and its verbal expression within cultures “totally untouched by any knowledge of writing or print.”[3]
.......


9. Homeostatic
Oral societies conserve their limited capacity to store information, and retain the relevance of their information to the interest of their present members, by shedding memories that have lost their past significance.[24]

While many examples exist, the classic example was reported by Goody and Watt (1968). Written records prepared by the British in Ghana in the early 1900s show that Ndewura Jakpa, the seventeenth century founder of the state of Gonja, had seven sons, each of whom ruled a territorial division within the state. Six decades later two of the divisions had disappeared for various reasons. The myths of the Gonja had been revised to recount that Jakpa had five sons, and that five divisions were created.[25] Since they had no practical, present purpose, the other two sons and divisions had evaporated.


10. Situational rather than abstract
In oral cultures, concepts are used in a way that minimizes abstraction, focusing to the greatest extent possible on objects and situations directly known by the speaker. A study by A.R. Luria, a psychologist who did extensive fieldwork comparing oral and literate subjects in remote areas of Uzbekistan and Kirghizia in 1931-2[26] documented the highly situational nature of oral thinking.

Oral subjects always used real objects they were familiar with to refer to geometric shapes; for example a plate or the moon might be used to refer to a circle.
Asked to select three similar words from the following list “hammer, saw, log, hatchet”, oral subjects would reject the literate solution (removing the log to produce a list of 3 tools), pointing out that without the log there wasn’t much use for the tools.
Oral subjects took a practical, not an abstract, approach to syllogisms. Luria asked them this question. In the far north, where there is snow, all bears are white. Novaya Zembla is in the far north and there is always snow there. What colour are the bears? Typical response: “I don’t know. I’ve seen a black bear. I’ve never seen any others. … Every locality has its own animals.”
Oral subjects proved unwilling to analyze themselves. When asked “what sort of person are you?” one responded: “What can I say about my own heart? How can I talk about my character? Ask others; they can tell you about me. I myself can’t say anything.” [27]


By the way, I am interested how much this sort of thing (abstract thought etc.) applies to other races than the 'white and black'. What can be seen in Oceania and the Americas in this regard?

Loddfafner
07-27-2010, 01:23 AM
In response to what Osweo posted:
Homeostasis I think is at the heart of the main flaw in American liberalism, the politically correct ( a separate breed from liberal imho) and in neoconservatism.

Situation thinking is a virtue in my book; its lack is one of the main reasons for our decline.

Osweo
07-27-2010, 02:14 AM
Situation thinking is a virtue in my book; its lack is one of the main reasons for our decline.
Indeed. The problem of 'baggage' is infuriating at times and frustrates a lot of forward movement. We'll be bickering over the holocaust, slavery, imperialism and what not even fifty years from now, while the Chinkiewinkies get on the moon or whatever. :rolleyes:

Is that what you had in mind? :o

((((By the way, genealogical modification (as in the example I cited) can have political expediency in a state governed by kinship laws... The Mediaeval Irish did it all the time. ))))

Tony
07-27-2010, 03:50 PM
Before the invention of writing Europeans' thinking too was limited as what regards the abstrac and strategic plannin' , we were far more subjected to the ear than the eye , to the orality and the chieftain's commands , to superstition and the Gods , it was a right brain hemisphere* dominated culture , read The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_th e_Bicameral_Mind) by Julian Jaynes.


*there's an overlap of meanings here , where Jaynes called tha ancient system bicameral and the modern one left brain side dominated whereas I prefer to call the old one right brain side dominated and the newer bicameral , nonetheless the shift remains undisputedly proved , that there's been a profound neurological transiction from the right brain side toward the opposite side.

Loddfafner
07-27-2010, 04:10 PM
I have seen African immigrants reach as many levels of abstract thinking as have descendants of Europeans, though recent immigrants are probably not the most representative of samples.

Lulletje Rozewater
07-29-2010, 08:12 AM
I honestly find this article pretty gross and thought for a moment it were sarcastic , if you ever happened to talk to a negro you would understand he's just less developed , mentally speaking , than us but that doesn't mean they're some sort of ape men.

I do not know much of the Negro(USA),but know all about the African.
No,they are not less developed mentally,just different. It is when 2 cultures come together and try to establish some sort of common lingo,you realize that there is a total different idea on behaviour.
Very few whites would pee in public,here it is common to see an African doing it.
Littering in parks-despite all the dustbins- is so frequent as to be a heath hazard. Public hospitals are a health hazard.
WHY.
Laziness in the eye of the whites ,but the African sees it differently.
We are taught to control our habits,they are taught to let go any which way. etc etc




In the past , before comin' into contact with pur modern world , negroes used to live quite well because they lived accordingly to their own nature , they had a folklore tradition , some sort of art , cultivated a great amount of plants and bred animals , and of course went hunt , all things that requires logical/forecastin' skills. Fallacy.
We are discussing here mainly the Bantu people and the Khoisan and Pygmy,South of the Sahara.
Are you now telling me that Homo Erectus were stupid hunters.





The real point of no return has been when they got colonized and tasted modernity and then have been abandoned by Europeans.
Unable to self sustain themselves they have later fallen in the present state of subhuman misery. Rubbish see the Ik people
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=qgoK0cL_NDcC&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=How+did+Teuso+or+Eek&source=bl&ots=WK6N_R0WsK&sig=P8WnJ2zgVG2NNYrFi11sfHm-dds&hl=en&ei=6jNRTO0lzpo4wLCJ-Qc&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

and then this


http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-profile.php?peo3=15453&rog3=UG




The anedoct of the car means nothing , african lifestyle is more based on social relationships than ours , more individual focused , parking a car just in front of yours when there is free space next could also simply mean they inconsciously want to find an excuse to make you out and start a brief talk.
That is the reason why so many cows are wandering around in New Delhi,they poop on your feet just to have a little chat,and why so many double parked cars are without rims in Johburg:D.
What is yours is mine

Lulletje Rozewater
07-29-2010, 08:27 AM
Before the invention of writing Europeans' thinking too was limited as what regards the abstrac and strategic plannin' , we were far more subjected to the ear than the eye , to the orality and the chieftain's commands , to superstition and the Gods , it was a right brain hemisphere* dominated culture , read The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_th e_Bicameral_Mind) by Julian Jaynes.


*there's an overlap of meanings here , where Jaynes called tha ancient system bicameral and the modern one left brain side dominated whereas I prefer to call the old one right brain side dominated and the newer bicameral , nonetheless the shift remains undisputedly proved , that there's been a profound neurological transiction from the right brain side toward the opposite side.

Why do you not quote the other 'negative' side of his theory.

blan
07-29-2010, 08:42 AM
I honestly find this article pretty gross and thought for a moment it were sarcastic , if you ever happened to talk to a negro you would understand he's just less developed , mentally speaking , than us but that doesn't mean they're some sort of ape men.
In the past , before comin' into contact with pur modern world , negroes used to live quite well because they lived accordingly to their own nature , they had a folklore tradition , some sort of art , cultivated a great amount of plants and bred animals , and of course went hunt , all things that requires logical/forecastin' skills.
The real point of no return has been when they got colonized and tasted modernity and then have been abandoned by Europeans.
Unable to self sustain themselves they have later fallen in the present state of subhuman misery.
The anedoct of the car means nothing , african lifestyle is more based on social relationships than ours , more individual focused , parking a car just in front of yours when there is free space next could also simply mean they inconsciously want to find an excuse to make you out and start a brief talk.

well come to haiti or go visit africa and you will see that your only deffending your own ignorance on the subject these are facts.
im not trying to insult you but this is typical within african based countries.
come see for yourself learn the languages spend intimate time with the general populace and find out for yourself friend.
there are proverbs that express the mind set of people in haiti a haitian proverb says you do not need to top a bucket of crabs and you wont need to top haiti becuase haiti is a country of crabs always pulling each other to the bottom and none getting up,
backstabbing is typical, lies and broken promises are typical, cheating is typical, and not looking into the future and only living for the day with no regard for self or others can be very very typical!!!
still in denial? get a plane ticket and i will show you around

blan
07-29-2010, 08:46 AM
I do not know much of the Negro(USA),but know all about the African.
No,they are not less developed mentally,just different. It is when 2 cultures come together and try to establish some sort of common lingo,you realize that there is a total different idea on behaviour.
Very few whites would pee in public,here it is common to see an African doing it.
Littering in parks-despite all the dustbins- is so frequent as to be a heath hazard. Public hospitals are a health hazard.
WHY.
Laziness in the eye of the whites ,but the African sees it differently.
We are taught to control our habits,they are taught to let go any which way. etc etc



Fallacy.
We are discussing here mainly the Bantu people and the Khoisan and Pygmy,South of the Sahara.
Are you now telling me that Homo Erectus were stupid hunters.




Rubbish see the Ik people
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=qgoK0cL_NDcC&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=How+did+Teuso+or+Eek&source=bl&ots=WK6N_R0WsK&sig=P8WnJ2zgVG2NNYrFi11sfHm-dds&hl=en&ei=6jNRTO0lzpo4wLCJ-Qc&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

and then this


http://www.joshuaproject.net/people-profile.php?peo3=15453&rog3=UG




That is the reason why so many cows are wandering around in New Delhi,they poop on your feet just to have a little chat,and why so many double parked cars are without rims in Johburg:D.
What is yours is mine

thank you all this is typical in other negro countries, pissing in public with waving your penis at passers by, throwing trash everywhere, ect ect ect .
less typical in white countries i have lived in both and can see the contrast but yes blacks in the usa even the savage ones are much different than the typical blacks in black majority black run african cultured countries

blan
07-29-2010, 08:49 AM
I have seen African immigrants reach as many levels of abstract thinking as have descendants of Europeans, though recent immigrants are probably not the most representative of samples.

i know many blacks that think abstract and are smart people but agian what is typical in black social groups. its the most simplistic line of thinking in the world.

blan
07-29-2010, 08:54 AM
if you do not think that most blacks in african based cultures think in a non abstract fashion then think again,
the majority can not comprehend anything i talk about with people i see as peers, questions on faith are simple there is God he loves us so we must do rituals to make him happy and life is better the end.

questions on finding a wife or husband= does she have big tits and a big ass and nice hair and pretty face?? then i want to marry her. husband= is he handsome have a car? some money? a job ? i am not kidding this is the truth.
i dont say this out of hate its fact any civil educated black will from africa or any other african based country will agree with me the line of thinking is survival mode and very basic and superficial.

RoyBatty
07-29-2010, 09:18 AM
I honestly find this article pretty gross and thought for a moment it were sarcastic , if you ever happened to talk to a negro you would understand he's just less developed , mentally speaking , than us but that doesn't mean they're some sort of ape men.


Spend a couple of months in SA and you'll gain a better understanding of what the author is talking about. You're using Europeanised blacks (or partially Europeanised ones) as a reference.

Come experience the real thing, then re-evaluate your beliefs.

Aviane
07-29-2010, 10:02 AM
well come to haiti or go visit africa and you will see that your only deffending your own ignorance on the subject these are facts.
im not trying to insult you but this is typical within african based countries.
come see for yourself learn the languages spend intimate time with the general populace and find out for yourself friend.
there are proverbs that express the mind set of people in haiti a haitian proverb says you do not need to top a bucket of crabs and you wont need to top haiti becuase haiti is a country of crabs always pulling each other to the bottom and none getting up,
backstabbing is typical, lies and broken promises are typical, cheating is typical, and not looking into the future and only living for the day with no regard for self or others can be very very typical!!!
still in denial? get a plane ticket and i will show you around

Good point there I think Africans are just as clever but they have just a different idea of think to Europeans.

I mean I even mix around Africans or others groups and I don't think of them as any less either. :cool:

Aviane
07-29-2010, 10:04 AM
Spend a couple of months in SA and you'll gain a better understanding of what the author is talking about. You're using Europeanised blacks (or partially Europeanised ones) as a reference.

Come experience the real thing, then re-evaluate your beliefs.

I couldn't of said it any better. :thumbs up

blan
07-29-2010, 04:38 PM
Good point there I think Africans are just as clever but they have just a different idea of think to Europeans.

I mean I even mix around Africans or others groups and I don't think of them as any less either. :cool:

chivliary and knight like behavior is not a universal concept.
not all cultures embrace this mind set but i meet blacks who do and i belive it is a result of education and or religious teaching

RoyBatty
07-29-2010, 04:46 PM
Good point there I think Africans are just as clever but they have just a different idea of think to Europeans.


If that were the case we'd be typing posts on our African computers programmed with African software. It's a myth that the intelligence of races are equal.

Yes Africans certainly think differently to Europeans. That was the point the author of the article was trying to make. Of course not everybody wants to believe this but most who don't are ones who have very little knowledge of or experience of true African culture and practices.




I mean I even mix around Africans or others groups and I don't think of them as any less either. :cool:

I don't lose sleep about them but they're not "my people" and I don't want to be forced to "integrate".

Tony
07-31-2010, 05:18 PM
Spend a couple of months in SA and you'll gain a better understanding of what the author is talking about. You're using Europeanised blacks (or partially Europeanised ones) as a reference.

Come experience the real thing, then re-evaluate your beliefs.
Those few blacks I've interacted with here seemd to me regular people , maybe I met la creme de la creme , who knows but they looked normal and not stupid at all , contrary to what the article said.

Look at how damn clever are the Somalis in USA in sendin' explorers to find out the best welfare counties or municipalities:


...
Those Somali already in Lewiston have found what they call their “dream place.” Nonetheless, they understand that there are other dream places in the United States, and they mean to find them. Following their ancient practice of “sahan,” they send young men out in all directions to find not water and good grazing, as in Somalia, but public housing and generous welfare benefits.

The tribe then follows. “They came in droves off the buses,” said Lewiston council president Bernier, and “some made the welfare office their first stop.” The practice of sahan has become more sophisticated in the United States. The Somalis use the Internet to access the websites of states and towns across the nation, checking crime rates, welfare programs, housing, and schools. Employment opportunities are evidently a low priority. This certainly removes the main obstacle for most of us relocating to dream places. Abdiaziz Ali, the welfare caseworker, is not shy about announcing the Somalis’ intentions. “We can spread out—anywhere we want.”
...

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2002/nov/18/00010/

Unfortunately for us they ain't stupid as we'd like they were :mad:
In a sense they seem fitter to the evolutiionary racial survival than us. :mad:

blan
07-31-2010, 05:40 PM
Those few blacks I've interacted with here seemd to me regular people , maybe I met la creme de la creme , who knows but they looked normal and not stupid at all , contrary to what the article said.

Look at how damn clever are the Somalis in USA in sendin' explorers to find out the best welfare counties or municipalities:

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2002/nov/18/00010/

Unfortunately for us they ain't stupid as we'd like they were :mad:
In a sense they seem fitter to the evolutiionary racial survival than us. :mad:

the article mentioned here said africans not people of dark complexion,
and it is making a cultural statement about the general mindset of the average african in africa, the 85 percent of the populace.
i do not recall any one saying that everyone who was black or of african background or from africa is stupid and animal like but ask any educated black that is honest and spent there life or any real time in africa and they will agree that most africans use a lower level of abstract thought
these are the facts people think diffrent ways depending on where you go, some asians think even more abstract than alot of europeans, but if you think africa is the same as europe with the only diffrence in skin tone and climate you are very mistaken

Invictus_88
07-31-2010, 08:44 PM
Dr Braun's work seems only to circulate in far-right racist circles. I'd tend to be suspicious, but he has held a lecturership at a reputable African university in Nigeria and is published in The Philosophical Quarterly, so perhaps this isn't just the usual nonsense cobbled together by ignorant white supremacists.

On the other hand;
> The lecturership was a long time ago.
> As a linguistic philosopher, he is unqualified to speak reliably on matters of race and genetics.
> All his recent publication is unacademic in nature and circulated only by online far right and racist circles.

Perhaps a balanced philosophy lecturer who unhinged himself from his work and began to overreach reality, and in doing so unfitted himself from mainstream work?

Curtis24
08-01-2010, 06:30 AM
I think Dr. Braun may be confusing correlation with causation. It is certainly true that the majority of living black Africans have much lower capacities for abstract thought than whites living in Western societies. Yet I don't think this is responsible for their immoral behavior. I"ve known "dull" people who were very kind. Furthermore, psychiatry has shown that psychopaths/anti-social personality types can actually have very high levels of I.Q.

Rather, the immorality of many black Africans is probably caused by upbringing/brutalization at a young age(which itself has highly arguable causes).

The low I.Q. of black Africans, while probably partially being genetically influenced, probably also has a much stronger environmental component. African-Americans living in the U.S. have much higher I.Q. than black Africans(70 compared to 85), and I don't believe that Europid admixture is strong enough to account for this.

blan
08-01-2010, 06:38 AM
I think Dr. Braun may be confusing correlation with causation. It is certainly true that the majority of living black Africans have much lower capacities for abstract thought than whites living in Western societies. Yet I don't think this is responsible for immoral behavior. I"ve known "dull" people who were very kind. Rather, the immorality of many black Africans is probably caused by upbringing/brutalization at a young age(which itself has highly arguable causes).

Furthermore, the low I.Q. of black Africans, while probably partially being genetically influenced, probably also has a much stronger environmental component.

many blacks of african heritage are actually very kind and many mainly those who are very religious are very moral in there own rite and by the standards of white culture, but this does explain things like riots, constant civil disorder, civil war constantly, and un wise buisness practice,
i can give you thousands of examples of murder and theft within the inner workings of haitian society, all i have to say is stop pondering this topic from a far in the comfort of your home.
if you are so interested in this subject come on over i will give yo ua grand tour and maybe you will understand, if not then just forget about it because it doe not concern you becuase its obvious you were not afflicted by the life of africa or its culture

Curtis24
08-01-2010, 06:43 AM
But I never disagreed that cruelty seems to be interwoven into many African societies. All I"m saying is that the cause of African cruelty is not lack of intelligence, but something else.

blan
08-01-2010, 06:56 AM
But I never disagreed that cruelty seems to be interwoven into many African societies. All I"m saying is that the cause of African cruelty is not lack of intelligence, but something else. Most likely, self-sustaining problems that were caused by the initial trauma of being exposed to Western technology and civilization.

i did not say they were stupid though i would write off many as such,
but lack of abstract thought does not mean dumb it means no regard for tommorow its a simplistic way of thinking,

blan
08-01-2010, 06:59 AM
i have had very kind blacks cheat me and they were unaware of the insult they were causing, they say things without regard of insult but people from white cultures are insulted its just theree simplistic survival based way of thought,
i did not say that your average black was not capable of learning or being smart , i am the first one to correct ignorant people who make statments like (( all blacks are dumb and cruel and understand nothing about compassion or kidness or respect)) i am annoyed by such insane statments i am just speaking of the general way of thinking by most in african culture

Psychonaut
08-01-2010, 01:52 PM
I think Dr. Braun may be confusing correlation with causation. It is certainly true that the majority of living black Africans have much lower capacities for abstract thought than whites living in Western societies. Yet I don't think this is responsible for their immoral behavior. I"ve known "dull" people who were very kind. Furthermore, psychiatry has shown that psychopaths/anti-social personality types can actually have very high levels of I.Q.

Rather, the immorality of many black Africans is probably caused by upbringing/brutalization at a young age(which itself has highly arguable causes).

I think you guys both might be making use of a fallacy of the single cause (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_the_single_cause). Sociological problems tend to be far too complex to pin down to a single source. This is particularly true of group behaviors where you have interwoven complexes stemming from biological, cultural, religious and situational agents. IMO, to deny that there is a heritable, biological component to behavior is just as fallacious as to posit that such behavior is only grounded in biology.

RoyBatty
08-01-2010, 05:13 PM
Those few blacks I've interacted with here seemd to me regular people , maybe I met la creme de la creme , who knows but they looked normal and not stupid at all , contrary to what the article said.


Tony, the ones you see in Europe will generally be the creme-de-la-creme. After all, they somehow made it into Euroland despite all the odds whilst most of the rest didn't. In fact, most of the rest have probably never heard of Europe.

Honestly, you cannot compare Westernised, semi-civilised specimen's with the real deal. It's comparing apples and oranges. Even the Westernised ones often have thought patterns not unlike that described in the article.

I once worked with a Nigerian / British guy. He was a nice enough bloke, we got along fine. He'd relate me all kinds of stories about Nigeria and the problems they had with corruption over there. He'd tell me about his dad who was quite an important man from what I could gather. The dad was a man of the law (lawyer, judge, can't remember exactly) and apparently very scrupulous, fighting the good fight against all the scammers.

By implication this guy would have had some of his father's values instilled in him to also be hardworking, honest etc.

Some time later he was mentioning his daughter's private school, the costs involved etc. It transpired that he'd pulled some or other fast one (stunt) to qualify as "disadvantaged" or "poor" so that he didn't need to pay the full amount and that he could qualify for a subsidy.

In his mind he wasn't doing anything wrong, he was simply doing what he needed to do to keep his daughter in the nice private school she went to. I could understand his reasoning.

I also realised that day that Africans DO have a different value system and have different notions and concepts about things to the way we Westerners typically do.

Westerners tend to deal more in absolutes. "Exact time", "Correct Amount", "Keep Your Promises" etc etc as was described in the article. All these things are relative to typical Africans.

We even have a saying in South Africa about "African Time". It literally means that time is relative to the African. Despite agreeing to turn up or meet at an agreed time, they will turn up at arbitrary times and don't understand why the other person could be upset about it. They would toil over a job for far longer than one would reasonably expect it to be completed. Why? Because time is relative in Africa.

See the real Africa, live in it for a couple of months, get to deal with and interact with the natives. Staying in a 5 Star Hotel in the metropolises (cities) doesn't qualify or teach one anything about a country.

The Khagan
08-01-2010, 06:06 PM
Africans are the ultimate subjectivists. Lebron James is Nietzsche's true Overman.

Óttar
08-01-2010, 06:13 PM
http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-07-10/1247224297929.jpg

My roommate is from the Sudan. His entire family was murdered by nomads. He went blind in his left eye from sandstorms trekking across Ethiopia. He is the nicest, gentlest, politest and most courteous person I and several of my friends have ever met and he has a degree in anthropology. Even after his entire family was murdered, he does not desire vengeance against his family's killers, he is not resentful about, nor does he bitch and moan about his life. On the contrary, he is grateful for surviving to have a better life. He serves as a great example for others of how to be and live an upright, honest life.

That blacks are inherently immoral or stupid is a completely ignorant conclusion.

RoyBatty
08-01-2010, 06:30 PM
Who claimed blacks are inherently immoral or stupid?

- the article goes to some lengths to explain what I perceive as mostly cultural differences. Morality is relative, there is no absolute test for it. The article simply describes differences between African and Western notions of morality and culture.

Is that SO HARD to understand?

- As for "stupidity" or relative intelligence, it honestly doesn't take a genius to figure out that on average Africans are less intelligent than Whitey, Chinese, Japs, Indians / Pakistanis or Koreans, to cite a few examples.

African contributions to science and mathematics... near zero.
African contributions to industrialisation (not that I'm necessarily saying industrialisation is a good thing) ... near zero.
African civilisations / societies which are on par with Western or Oriental counterparts? ... non-existent.

That's how it is. That's the reality. Everything else is just wishy-washy feelgood PC nonsense.

Of course there are Africans who can and do excel Academically but they are the exceptions, not the average rule. Even the ones who do excel are generally not capable of competing directly with experts from the Orient, Asia or Whiteyland.

Vrijbuiter
08-01-2010, 07:08 PM
African contributions to science and mathematics... near zero.
African contributions to industrialisation (not that I'm necessarily saying industrialisation is a good thing) ... near zero.
African civilisations / societies which are on par with Western or Oriental counterparts? ... non-existent.

That's how it is. That's the reality. Everything else is just wishy-washy feelgood PC nonsense.

Indeed.
When the first European colons came to Africa, the Africans had not even discovered the wheel.

Someone compared earlier in the thread the Africans to our European ancestors before they invented writing.
I disagree.
The Celts and Germanics even when they were people of oral traditions, had developed technologies of which the Africans had still not idea before the Europeans came to them in the 15th century.
Think only of their mastery of metal. I think also of the celtic invention of the wooden barrel. The Romans self viewed it as an impressive invention, much better than their own amphoras, and pretty quickly adopted it.

As for moral codes, we know the Celts and Germanics, had these notions of honour, respect of the given word, and much more, that the Africans still lack today.

Crossbow
08-01-2010, 07:17 PM
Who claimed blacks are inherently immoral or stupid?

- the article goes to some lengths to explain what I perceive as mostly cultural differences. Morality is relative, there is no absolute test for it. The article simply describes differences between African and Western notions of morality and culture.

Is that SO HARD to understand?

- As for "stupidity" or relative intelligence, it honestly doesn't take a genius to figure out that on average Africans are less intelligent than Whitey, Chinese, Japs, Indians / Pakistanis or Koreans, to cite a few examples.

African contributions to science and mathematics... near zero.
African contributions to industrialisation (not that I'm necessarily saying industrialisation is a good thing) ... near zero.
African civilisations / societies which are on par with Western or Oriental counterparts? ... non-existent.

That's how it is. That's the reality. Everything else is just wishy-washy feelgood PC nonsense.

Of course there are Africans who can and do excel Academically but they are the exceptions, not the average rule. Even the ones who do excel are generally not capable of competing directly with experts from the Orient, Asia or Whiteyland.

Those who have made an academic career , are probably of mixed origin predominantly. I once read that in an article about the IQ of Africans, Whites and people of the Far East. The last ones tended to have a higher IQ than whites. Black Africans find themselves at the lowest level, and even Arabs scored less than Whites. But the Arab world too has a different concept of time, compared to our notions. In the Islamic world there seems to exist a feeling of ´timelessness´. And they have a kind of fatalistic view on progress: man can do what he wants, but when God decides otherwise, it has been all in vain. Not the kind of stimulation scientific research and philosophical progress need I'd say.
However, Africans are good at playing drums.

Psychonaut
08-01-2010, 07:48 PM
Of course there are Africans who can and do excel Academically but they are the exceptions, not the average rule.

Indeed. Any group aggregate will be home to members on both extreme ends of the spectrum. But it is not the exception that defines the aggregate—it is the median.

The Khagan
08-01-2010, 07:53 PM
Indeed.
When the first European colons came to Africa, the Africans had not even discovered the wheel.

Someone compared earlier in the thread the Africans to our European ancestors before they invented writing.
I disagree.
The Celts and Germanics even when they were people of oral traditions, had developed technologies of which the Africans had still not idea before the Europeans came to them in the 15th century.
Think only of their mastery of metal. I think also of the celtic invention of the wooden barrel. The Romans self viewed it as an impressive invention, much better than their own amphoras, and pretty quickly adopted it.

As for moral codes, we know the Celts and Germanics, had these notions of honour, respect of the given word, and much more, that the Africans still lack today.

Dude, Sub-saharan Africans definitely had metallurgy. In fact, ancient Nigeriens (original Bantu) were one of the first peoples to master it. 1500 BC nukka.

Vrijbuiter
08-01-2010, 08:45 PM
Dude, Sub-saharan Africans definitely had metallurgy. In fact, ancient Nigeriens (original Bantu) were one of the first peoples to master it. 1500 BC nukka.

As a matter of fact, I wasn't sure Africans had not some sort of metallurgy, that's why I talked about the ancient Celts' and Germanics' mastery of metal better than simple knowlegde of metallurgy.

What did the Bantus make with their metallurgy ? Surely some spearheads and a few tools. But did they only invent the sword ?

Anyway, could you show me a Nigerian metallic artifact that equals in sophistication the Battersea shield
http://www.truebrits.org/images/BatterseaShieldCut.jpg

or the Gundestrup cauldron http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Silver_cauldron.jpg/800px-Silver_cauldron.jpg
?

I doubt it.

Aramis
08-01-2010, 09:58 PM
As a matter of fact, I wasn't sure Africans had not some sort of metallurgy, that's why I talked about the ancient Celts' and Germanics' mastery of metal better than simple knowlegde of metallurgy.

What did the Bantus make with their metallurgy ? Surely some spearheads and a few tools. But did they only invent the sword ?

Anyway, could you show me a Nigerian metallic artifact that equals in sophistication the Battersea shield
http://www.truebrits.org/images/BatterseaShieldCut.jpg

or the Gundestrup cauldron http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Silver_cauldron.jpg/800px-Silver_cauldron.jpg
?

I doubt it.

Well, I am no expert, but how is this less sophisticated?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2704339262_f4ac073758_o.jpg

Warrior Chief Flanked by Warriors and Attendants, Benin culture, Nigeria, 1550 - 1650 BCE, brass

http://0.tqn.com/d/archaeology/1/5/B/2/1/iyoba.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Benin_bronze_Louvre_A97-14-1.jpg/449px-Benin_bronze_Louvre_A97-14-1.jpg

http://www.artsmia.org/mia/images/4001/mia_4001421g.jpg

Bronze Heads, Kingdom of Benin, 16th/17th centuries AD

blan
08-02-2010, 04:18 AM
I think you guys both might be making use of a fallacy of the single cause (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_the_single_cause). Sociological problems tend to be far too complex to pin down to a single source. This is particularly true of group behaviors where you have interwoven complexes stemming from biological, cultural, religious and situational agents. IMO, to deny that there is a heritable, biological component to behavior is just as fallacious as to posit that such behavior is only grounded in biology.

i am not making statements based on any research done by some one in a lab or writing books my research is my own life experince, i am around more blacks than i am whites and i feel i know more about black culture than many blacks do.

blan
08-02-2010, 04:22 AM
http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-07-10/1247224297929.jpg

My roommate is from the Sudan. His entire family was murdered by nomads. He went blind in his left eye from sandstorms trekking across Ethiopia. He is the nicest, gentlest, politest and most courteous person I and several of my friends have ever met and he has a degree in anthropology. Even after his entire family was murdered, he does not desire vengeance against his family's killers, he is not resentful about, nor does he bitch and moan about his life. On the contrary, he is grateful for surviving to have a better life. He serves as a great example for others of how to be and live an upright, honest life.

That blacks are inherently immoral or stupid is a completely ignorant conclusion.

and who the hell made the claim that they are all stupid and unkind and cruel?? the article and topic is lack of abstract thought within the general african mindset.

Guapo
08-02-2010, 04:40 AM
Shiiiiit, thank the nigga fo the modern version of teh traffic stop light.

Grumpy Cat
08-02-2010, 04:55 AM
We even have a saying in South Africa about "African Time". It literally means that time is relative to the African. Despite agreeing to turn up or meet at an agreed time, they will turn up at arbitrary times and don't understand why the other person could be upset about it. They would toil over a job for far longer than one would reasonably expect it to be completed. Why? Because time is relative in Africa.

:lol: I had to laugh at this because North American blacks do this too. We actually make jokes about this here... not meant in malice, even black people joke about it themselves... I tried to find a Chris Rock skit about it on YouTube but with no luck.

blan
08-02-2010, 05:05 AM
in the caribbean its the same, there is a such thing as Haitian time and regular time. if someone says i will meet you at 5:30 it means 6:45 or so maybe even 7

Grumpy Cat
08-02-2010, 05:14 AM
in the caribbean its the same, there is a such thing as Haitian time and regular time. if someone says i will meet you at 5:30 it means 6:45 or so maybe even 7

That's why you tell them 5:30 and not show up until 6:45. :D I admit to doing that with my black friends.

But they're not late for work, usually, just social things.

Tony
08-02-2010, 03:40 PM
Tony, the ones you see in Europe will generally be the creme-de-la-creme. After all, they somehow made it into Euroland despite all the odds whilst most of the rest didn't. In fact, most of the rest have probably never heard of Europe.

Honestly, you cannot compare Westernised, semi-civilised specimen's with the real deal. It's comparing apples and oranges. Even the Westernised ones often have thought patterns not unlike that described in the article.

I once worked with a Nigerian / British guy. He was a nice enough bloke, we got along fine. He'd relate me all kinds of stories about Nigeria and the problems they had with corruption over there. He'd tell me about his dad who was quite an important man from what I could gather. The dad was a man of the law (lawyer, judge, can't remember exactly) and apparently very scrupulous, fighting the good fight against all the scammers.

By implication this guy would have had some of his father's values instilled in him to also be hardworking, honest etc.

Some time later he was mentioning his daughter's private school, the costs involved etc. It transpired that he'd pulled some or other fast one (stunt) to qualify as "disadvantaged" or "poor" so that he didn't need to pay the full amount and that he could qualify for a subsidy.

In his mind he wasn't doing anything wrong, he was simply doing what he needed to do to keep his daughter in the nice private school she went to. I could understand his reasoning.

I also realised that day that Africans DO have a different value system and have different notions and concepts about things to the way we Westerners typically do.

Westerners tend to deal more in absolutes. "Exact time", "Correct Amount", "Keep Your Promises" etc etc as was described in the article. All these things are relative to typical Africans.

We even have a saying in South Africa about "African Time". It literally means that time is relative to the African. Despite agreeing to turn up or meet at an agreed time, they will turn up at arbitrary times and don't understand why the other person could be upset about it. They would toil over a job for far longer than one would reasonably expect it to be completed. Why? Because time is relative in Africa.

See the real Africa, live in it for a couple of months, get to deal with and interact with the natives. Staying in a 5 Star Hotel in the metropolises (cities) doesn't qualify or teach one anything about a country.

Let's put this way , I'd like to read a well done study about this lack of abstract thing , something like what's been done for the IQ...
statistics , charts , figures , footnotes and all the likes , because I trust more such a research than personal anecdotes , because they could be misinterpreted and not correctly fit a scientific picture.

Grumpy Cat
08-02-2010, 05:30 PM
Well, I should add that I do have one good thing to say about blacks, and this probably goes to their difference in mentality. I've worked since I was 12 years old, so I've had bosses of all races and walks of life, and I have to say that black people have a distinct management style which I happen to like. This applies to both Africans and New World blacks, as they have similar management styles. They tend to be more of a guide than a boss, meaning they actively work with you and guide you to help you do your job better.

Guapo
08-02-2010, 06:09 PM
nigga please.

Lulletje Rozewater
08-03-2010, 12:52 PM
Let's put this way , I'd like to read a well done study about this lack of abstract thing , something like what's been done for the IQ...
statistics , charts , figures , footnotes and all the likes , because I trust more such a research than personal anecdotes , because they could be misinterpreted and not correctly fit a scientific picture.
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/monkey_dance.gif

Lulletje Rozewater
08-03-2010, 02:29 PM
Nigeria: I Agree With Dr Watson

Daily Trust (Abuja): Opinion
25 October 2007
Idang Alibi


A few days ago, the Nobel Laureate, Dr James Watson, made a remark that is now generating worldwide uproar, especially among the blacks.

He said what to me looks like a self-evident truth. He told The Sunday Times of London in an interview that in his humble opinion, black people are less intelligent than the White people.

Since then, some of us cannot hear anything else but the outrage of black people who feel demeaned by what Watson has said. So many people have called the man names.

To be expected, some have said he is a racist. Some even wonder how a "foolish" man like Watson could have won the Nobel Prize. Even white people who, deep in their heart, agree with Watson want to be politically, correct so they condemn the man.

Why are we blacks becoming so reactive, so sensitive to any remarks, no matter how well-meaning, about our failure as a race?

Why are we becoming like the Jews who see every accusation as a manifestation of anti-Semitism?

I do not know what constitutes intelligence. I leave that to our so-called scholars. But I do know that in terms of organising society for the benefit of the people living in it, we blacks have not shown any intelligence in that direction at all. I am so ashamed of this and sometimes feel that I ought to have belonged to another race.

Nigeria my dear country is a prime example of the inferiority of the black race when compared to other races.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JSpbgoKp8LA/TFcF-ngmOlI/AAAAAAAAKOE/3-HouP2Xe3c/s400/EmotionalIntel_DGoleman.jpg (http://astore.amazon.com/whitrefu-20/detail/055380491X)
Emotional Intelligence: 10th Anniversary Edition; Why It Can Matter More Than IQ, by Daniel Goleman
[*Amazon (http://astore.amazon.com/whitrefu-20/detail/055380491X)*]


Let somebody please tell me whether it is a manifestation of intelligence if a people cannot organise a free, fair and credible election to choose who will lead them. Is it intelligence that we cannot provide simple pipe-borne water for the people? Our public school system has virtually collapsed. Is that a sign of intelligence? Our roads are impassable.

In spite of the numerous sources that nature has made available to us to tap for energy to run our industries and homes, we have no steady supply of electricity. Yet electricity is the bedrock of industrialisation.

When you agree with the school of Watson, some say you are incorrect because all these failures are a result of poor leadership. Why must it be us blacks who must always suffer poor leadership? Is that not a manifestation of unintelligence?

In the name of international trade, bilateral co-operation, globalisation and other subterfuges, the norm in the world today is for smart people to appropriate the wealth of other people for themselves and their countries. But more among the blacks than any other race, the practice is to steal from their own country and salt away to other people's country. Is it intelligence that our leaders steal billions of naira and hide in other people's country?

Anywhere in the world today where you have a concentration of black people among other races, the poorest, the least educated, the least achieving, and the most violent group among those races will be the blacks.

When indices of underdevelopment are given, black people and countries are sure to occupy the bottom of the ladder.

If we are intelligent, why do we not carry first when statistics of development are given? Look at the African continent. South Africa is the most developed country because of the presence of whites there. This may be an uncomfortable truth for many of us but it exists nevertheless. If the whites had been driven away after independence, we would have seen a steady decline of that country.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JSpbgoKp8LA/TFcHVsnC7FI/AAAAAAAAKOM/CBxED4f01So/s400/BellCurve_HernsteinMurray.jpg (http://astore.amazon.com/whitrefu-20/detail/0684824299)
Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life, by Richard J. Herrnstein, Charles Murray [*Amazon (http://astore.amazon.com/whitrefu-20/detail/0684824299)*]


In terms of natural endowment, Africa ought to be the richest of the continents but see the mess we have made of the potential for greatness which God in his infinite wisdom has bestowed upon us.

We have proved totally incapable of harnessing the abundant natural resources to become great.

Today, there is a renewed scramble for the wealth of Africa. China, our new "friend", does not bother about the genocide against fellow blacks in the Sudan by the Arabs who control the affairs of that country. They say they do not want to interfere in the internal affairs of any country. All they want is the oil in Sudan to run their industries. Yet, we blacks have not seen the Chinese action as an affront to our sensitivities.

Every race takes us for granted because we are so weak and so foolish, if you permit me to say it.

I am really pained by our gross underachievement as a race.

Instead of regarding bitter truths expressed by the likes of Watson as a wake-up call for us to engage in sober reflection, we take to the expression of woolly sentiment.

For me, this type of reaction is a further evidence of our unintelligence.

A man of intelligence recognises genuine criticism against him and takes steps to improve himself in order to prove his critics wrong. But for us blacks, our reaction is to abuse the man who expresses worries about our backwardness.

Other races are deeply worried about us because we are a problem to the world. We suffer from the five Ds: disorderliness, debts, diseases, deaths and disasters. Our disorderliness affects others or else they won't be too bothered about us. Many are afraid because our diseases could infect them.

Polio has been eradicated all over the world yet it is still found in Nigeria here. When they give us money to help us eradicate it, our thieving officials will embezzle the money; the virus will spread and endanger the health of not only our people but other people as well. Out of a shared sense of humanity, some cannot bear to see how we die in thousands almost every day from clearly preventable diseases and causes.

For years now, our people die extremely painful but perfectly preventable deaths from buildings which collapse because they were poorly constructed. How can you tell me we are as intelligent as others when we set traps for ourselves in the name of houses and others do not do so?

Some people are extremely frustrated about us. If they have a way of avoiding us, they will be too glad to do so because we are a problem.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JSpbgoKp8LA/TFcI1Vx_DvI/AAAAAAAAKOU/P2yL-lXoHrM/s400/BellCurveWars_SFraser.jpg (http://astore.amazon.com/whitrefu-20/detail/0465006930)
The Bell Curve Wars: Race, Intelligence, and the Future of America, by Steven Fraser [*Amazon (http://astore.amazon.com/whitrefu-20/detail/0465006930)*]

As I write this, I do so with great pains in my heart because I know that God has given intelligence in equal measure to all his children irrespective of the colour of their skin. The problem with us black people is that we have refused to use our intelligence to organise ourselves socially and politically.

It should worry us that we do not invent things. We do not go to the moon. Our societies are not well-organised. We have the shortest lifespan of all the races. Something must be wrong with us. Why are we not like others?

Our scholars will be quick to say that these are not the only ways of measuring intelligence. They will quote other scholars to adumbrate their point, but the fact remains that we are not showing intelligence. Others are showing it more than we're doing. If they are not more intelligent than we are, let someone tell me how to put it.

God himself must be frustrated with his black children. They must be an embarrassment to him. He has given us everything he has given to other of his children; why are his black children not manifesting their own gift?

A few years ago, the whites used to contemptuously call the Japanese "little Japs". Today, the Japanese and other Asians have pulled themselves up by the bootstrap and have arrived. No one speaks of the Japanese or Asians with contempt anymore.

When people like Watson speak about us in unedifying terms, we should take it as a challenge to prove them wrong by sitting down to plan how we can become world-beaters.

If our political leaders are the reason for our backwardness, we should resolve to get the kind of leaders who will be instrument for our rapid progress.

I may not know how intelligence is measured but my limited knowledge of intelligence is that it can also be measured by the kind of leaders a people decide to have. If, for instance, our professors preside over the massive rigging of elections, it means that we do not have very intelligent professors. Such rigged elections will no doubt produce unintelligent leaders. Such unintelligent leaders will do stupid things which will prove that we are not as intelligent as other races.

Do I sound confusing or intelligent?

I am ready for some of our 'patriotic' intellectuals who will write and abuse me for the 'outrage' I have expressed here but I stick to my guns: we lack intelligence and as stated in the Bible, anyone who lacks intelligence should cry unto God who is the custodian of wisdom to bestow some upon him. We should go on our knees today and ask God why we do not appear as intelligent as our other brothers.

I am confident God will reveal to us what we must do, and urgently too, to change our terribly unflattering circumstances.




http://why-we-are-white-refugees.blogspot.com/2010/08/nigerian-agrees-with-dna-pioneers.html

Tony
08-08-2010, 08:00 PM
Intersting video contribution

WOMGdFjsmBA

...

RoyBatty
08-08-2010, 09:23 PM
Shiiiiit, thank the nigga fo the modern version of teh traffic stop light.

That "black inventor" story is a myth which was debunked ages ago.

RoyBatty
08-08-2010, 09:26 PM
:lol: I had to laugh at this because North American blacks do this too. We actually make jokes about this here... not meant in malice, even black people joke about it themselves... I tried to find a Chris Rock skit about it on YouTube but with no luck.

Chris Rock is a comic superhero. There's nobody else I can think of who's funnier and more brutally honest in his assessments of typical race-tinged situations and stereotypes. :thumb001:

As far as UK blacks are concerned, I usually try to avoid the black cashiers at supermarket checkouts. I don't do this because I have some personal problem with them. I do it because in my experience, their lines tend to move the slowest and it takes forever to clear the queue ahead of me :D

RoyBatty
08-08-2010, 09:39 PM
Let's put this way , I'd like to read a well done study about this lack of abstract thing , something like what's been done for the IQ...
statistics , charts , figures , footnotes and all the likes , because I trust more such a research than personal anecdotes , because they could be misinterpreted and not correctly fit a scientific picture.

Blan summed it up pretty well when he said that he had plenty of personal, real-life experience with them. My experiences match his. Klepzeiker would say the same thing.

Academic studies.... what are they really worth, especially today? There's no way that an objective an accurate study on this topic can be conducted in today's PC climate. Contemporary Academic literature and publications reflect the times they are written in. It will be near unthinkable that "a study" on this can be released by a Western institution today without there being serious repercussions for those involved in making it, assuming they drew similar conclusions to the original author.

In any case, I've come across enough so-called "Academics" who don't know their a$$ from their elbows. They're too caught up in Ivory Tower lalaland to live in real life, understand real life, experience it etc.

Anyway, believe what you want about our dark brothers.

Some of the rest of us stick to the facts and those facts are that blacks are near incapable of governing their countries properly, maintaining infrastructure, make any notable kind of scientific progress and advances etc. They're quite capable of advancing up to a certain level but are generally incapable of competing with the intellect of the Asian, Oriental and White upper-crusts.

Grumpy Cat
08-08-2010, 09:46 PM
Chris Rock is a comic superhero. There's nobody else I can think of who's funnier and more brutally honest in his assessments of typical race-tinged situations and stereotypes. :thumb001:

As far as UK blacks are concerned, I usually try to avoid the black cashiers at supermarket checkouts. I don't do this because I have some personal problem with them. I do it because in my experience, their lines tend to move the slowest and it takes forever to clear the queue ahead of me :D

:lol: Really? I never experienced that with blacks. I talked about this on another forum, a lot of people were saying that black Americans have the worst customer service skills, but in my travels through the US, I experienced the total opposite. They were always polite, helpful, and fast. White Americans are good too, don't get me wrong.

The only time a black American made me feel uncomfortable was when I was pulled to the side by airport security in Detroit for having over 100 ml of liquid in my bag (I had some hot sauce I bought at the airport store in Dallas and I thought it was OK to have since I bought it inside the terminal). Anyways, a white man was there, and I asked for a woman because I don't feel comfortable getting patted down by a man, and they sent in the HUGE black woman who looked like she could break me in half, and she was treating me like I was a potential member of al Qaeda... I was shaking while she patted me down and then sprayed me with this stuff that detects explosives.

Lulletje Rozewater
08-09-2010, 10:28 AM
Shiiiiit, thank the nigga fo the modern version of teh traffic stop light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cWAERtZKJU&feature=player_embedded

African traffic light


Hover to interacthttp://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/traffic_lights.jpg

Another African invention:Overhead shower
http://newsnet14.com/images/blackshower.jpg

Black secretary at work
http://www.log24.com/log/pix06B/061219-RosettaStone.jpg

RoyBatty
08-09-2010, 08:32 PM
:lol: Really? I never experienced that with blacks. I talked about this on another forum, a lot of people were saying that black Americans have the worst customer service skills, but in my travels through the US, I experienced the total opposite. They were always polite, helpful, and fast. White Americans are good too, don't get me wrong.


Yeah of course, mileage differs!! There are many who are excellent. For some reason the cashiers in my neck of the woods are just so slothenly lol :D



The only time a black American made me feel uncomfortable was when I was pulled to the side by airport security in Detroit for having over 100 ml of liquid in my bag (I had some hot sauce I bought at the airport store in Dallas and I thought it was OK to have since I bought it inside the terminal). Anyways, a white man was there, and I asked for a woman because I don't feel comfortable getting patted down by a man,


Goodness, that's a bit unusual having a guy pat you down. I've had female security check me with portable metal detectors but that's about as far as it went


and they sent in the HUGE black woman who looked like she could break me in half, and she was treating me like I was a potential member of al Qaeda... I was shaking while she patted me down and then sprayed me with this stuff that detects explosives.

Oh dearr :D

Yeah it's weird, I've had to take off my shoes etc.... I did tell them "at your own risk" :D

My fav trick with customs is to put all my unwashed underwear at the top of my backpack. "You want to search it for contraband... be my guest" I tell them as I happily approach them offering to open my bag. I hardly ever get stopped. :thumb001:

RoyBatty
08-09-2010, 08:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cWAERtZKJU&feature=player_embedded

African traffic light


Hover to interacthttp://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/traffic_lights.jpg


That one's in Docklands, it confused the **** out of me first time I saw it. :D

Grumpy Cat
08-09-2010, 09:17 PM
Yeah of course, mileage differs!! There are many who are excellent. For some reason the cashiers in my neck of the woods are just so slothenly lol :D



Goodness, that's a bit unusual having a guy pat you down. I've had female security check me with portable metal detectors but that's about as far as it went



Oh dearr :D

Yeah it's weird, I've had to take off my shoes etc.... I did tell them "at your own risk" :D

My fav trick with customs is to put all my unwashed underwear at the top of my backpack. "You want to search it for contraband... be my guest" I tell them as I happily approach them offering to open my bag. I hardly ever get stopped. :thumb001:

:lol:

Everybody has to take off their shoes before boarding a plane here, and your belt and all your jewellry too. You have to put all that, plus any electronic devices (cell phones, iPods, etc.) in a tray and then it all gets x-rayed.



And wait a minute... that's a real traffic light??? :eek:

RoyBatty
08-09-2010, 09:30 PM
And wait a minute... that's a real traffic light??? :eek:

It's an "artwork" in London Docklands and yes, it is on a road / traffic island. :D