Iberian DNA from French people 23andme

[Dylan]

How normal is it for someone who is of full French ancestry to get around 20% Iberian on 23andme?

[Damião de Góis]

Iberian on 23andme is linked to basque. So the closer this french person is to the southwest of their country, the higher iberian he will score.

[de Burgh II]

I would say perhaps in Southwestern France where it shares it borders with Iberia. Since France has some genetic overlap with its neighbors depending on its location. Since France is predominantly Celtic with some Germanic/Mediterranean influences thrown in the mix.

[Sockorer]

I imagine, especially since 23andme has French and Germans lumped together.

[Visage pâle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gascony

" In pre-Roman times, the inhabitants of Gascony were the Aquitanians (Latin: Aquitani), who spoke a language related to modern Basque. "

[Petalpusher]

Possible for a Southwest French who score pred French&German. Impossible for someone who score Brit&Irish, unless one of his parent is actually Spanish.

[Dylan]

The reason why I ask is because I'm roughly half French-Canadian and I got something like 7% Iberian on my DNA test, which was actually double the score I got for French/German on 23andme. I suspect my dad would get around 14% with one of my grandparents having the bulk of it.
A lot of people also classified my phenotype as Iberian so I'm curious

[ius semper]

The reason why I ask is because I'm roughly half French-Canadian and I got something like 7% Iberian on my DNA test, which was actually double the score I got for French/German on 23andme. I suspect my dad would get around 14% with one of my grandparents having the bulk of it.
A lot of people also classified my phenotype as Iberian so I'm curious

May I take a look if you don't mind?

[Petalpusher]

How can you make an overlap if you are missing one of the two populations, it doesn't work like that. There s no pca chart in the world that shows an overlap between UK and Spain, not at this kind of level. If you dont score French&German you can't have an overlap with Iberian, again, you can have real Spanish ancestry but not overlap by a proxy like Southwest France. So you are either French and Iberian, then you score French&German + Iberian, OR English and Spanish, Then your parent is at least part Spanish. In this last scenario you have no French in there.

It's one way or another, but not both at the same time. The only way to make such an overlap in the real sense with Spanish is having SouthWest French ancestry (and extreme Southwest, like a Breton with UK). If you have French ancestry you gonna score French&German and high, not Brit&irish. Making a bigger overlap than the score of one of the two populations supposed to overlap together doesn't make sense at all, either with Iberian or Italian or "broad Southern" btw.

[Damião de Góis]

A lot of people also classified my phenotype as Iberian so I'm curious

In my opinion you don't look like the iberian posters here. That was an inacurate classification if it came out that way.

[Dylan]

May I take a look if you don't mind?

Sorry, I didn't see this until now. What do you want to see?

[Dylan]

How can you make an overlap if you are missing one of the two populations, it doesn't work like that. There s no pca chart in the world that shows an overlap between UK and Spain, not at this kind of level. If you dont score French&German you can't have an overlap with Iberian, again, you can have real Spanish ancestry but not overlap by a proxy like Southwest France. So you are either French and Iberian, then you score French&German + Iberian, OR English and Spanish, Then your parent is at least part Spanish. In this last scenario you have no French in there.

It's one way or another, but not both at the same time. The only way to make such an overlap in the real sense with Spanish is having SouthWest French ancestry (and extreme Southwest, like a Breton with UK). If you have French ancestry you gonna score French&German and high, not Brit&irish. Making a bigger overlap than the score of one of the two populations supposed to overlap together doesn't make sense at all, either with Iberian or Italian or "broad Southern" btw.

I can trace most of my french ancestry back to the 1600's. I'm French-Canadian so it is possible for some parts to be labeled as British and other parts to be labeled as French&German. My ancestry comes from all over France.

[Petalpusher]

I can trace most of my french ancestry back to the 1600's. I'm French-Canadian so it is possible for some parts to be labeled as British and other parts to be labeled as French&German. My ancestry comes from all over France.

Then you have a pretty intense Italian part, because no region in France is 12% East med and 8% West Asian, let alone in Ireland who would have cut what you got from a Southwest ancestry by two.


There is one big paradox in France, as you go South and West, the East med and West Asian lowers, people there start to be related to the French Basques who have almost none of these components and the highest N.Atlantic in the world, they have 3% East med/West asian combined, and you have 20%.

I ran the Oracle of what you posted from the K13 admix, if you are 25% Italian then it's ethnically Southern half Italy at the very least, it even labels it as Sepharadic_Jew almost every time.

[Dylan]

Then you have a pretty intense Italian part, because no region in France is 12% East med and 8% West Asian, let alone in Ireland who would have cut what you got from a Southwest ancestry by two.


There is one big paradox in France, as you go South and West, the East med and West Asian lowers, people there start to be related to the French Basques who have almost none of these components and the highest N.Atlantic in the world, they have 3% East med/West asian combined, and you have 20%.

I ran the Oracle of what you posted from the K13 admix, if you are 25% Italian then it's ethnically Southern half Italy at the very least, it even labels it as Sepharadic_Jew almost every time.

My Italian side isn't very southern surprisingly. My family comes from the Appenines in Abruzzo and Fano on the Adriatic coast of Marche. Fano is on the Northern part of Central Italy and Abruzzo while geographically central, is considered the northern most part of southern italy.

If all of that were to come from my Italian part... that would mean my Italian grandmother is 32% West Asian and 48% East Med.

You're right about the Sephardic Jewish part, it also labeled it as Cyprian quite often too. It does seem to think I'm 25% French Basque which I thought was interesting.

So which of the markers do you think come from the French part? I guess most of the West Med is from the French part. The main thing I'm confused about though is whether Baltic comes from French or Irish.

[MisterGaga]

SW French are for many parts Latinized Basques. So they drag closer towards the Basque cluster. SW French and Basque ancestry is common in Canada I think.

[Dylan]

SW French are for many parts Latinized Basques. So they drag closer towards the Basque cluster. SW French and Basque ancestry is common in Canada I think.

Makes sense since the people who lived in SW France in what is not Basque Country spoke proto-basque languages during the Gallic era.

[sql]

On AncestryDNA, my grandfather gets 16% Iberian (he's half French-Canadian)

[spanish catalan]

atlantic facade


http://i58.tinypic.com/1zft1g2.png

[Dylan]

On AncestryDNA, my grandfather gets 16% Iberian (he's half French-Canadian)

What's his other half? That would mean his French-Canadian half would have been 32% Iberian if its exclusively from there.

[sql]

What's his other half? That would mean his French-Canadian half would have been 32% Iberian if its exclusively from there.

Irish

[Dylan]

Irish

damn, that's quite a lot of Iberian. I guess that Saintes/Poitiers/La Rochelle area where most French-Canadians came from must be genetically Iberian or at least close to it.

[Petalpusher]

My Italian side isn't very southern surprisingly. My family comes from the Appenines in Abruzzo and Fano on the Adriatic coast of Marche. Fano is on the Northern part of Central Italy and Abruzzo while geographically central, is considered the northern most part of southern italy.

If all of that were to come from my Italian part... that would mean my Italian grandmother is 32% West Asian and 48% East Med.

You're right about the Sephardic Jewish part, it also labeled it as Cyprian quite often too. It does seem to think I'm 25% French Basque which I thought was interesting.

So which of the markers do you think come from the French part? I guess most of the West Med is from the French part. The main thing I'm confused about though is whether Baltic comes from French or Irish.

Abruzzo is central but very southern genetically, it's on par with West Sicily. Someone from Abruzzo will have more West Asian than a Sicilian and as much east med. Cyprians are similar genetically to Sephardic Jews (they are even more "southern" in some aspects, less N.Atlantic and more East med, 40%)

You score low Baltic for France (average is 17,5) and for Ireland (24). The Abruzzo region is at 8,5 and your score is 13%

It's simple math based on this, if you are 50% French + 25% Irish + 25% Italian, then the Italian would need to be at ... 0% to make 13% (even at zero it would give a 15% Baltic score), that's the main reason the Oracle can't give you an Italian population but something out of Europe with the remaining 25%, because 0% Baltic doesn't exist.


Basically, the more French and Irish you have, the more southern the Italian has to be, to the point it would be out of Europe on a pca chart. If the proportions are different with 50% British Isles, the Italian Abruzzo comes back in 3 pop and everything fits well, but in this case, it's also extremely south France and not Basque either, closer to a Spanish than anything else, like someone who would have lived at the border with Northeast Spain.


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% West_Scottish +25% Cyprian +25% French_Basque @ 2,621938
2 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,872339
3 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Italian_Jewish @ 2,947424
4 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2,983432
5 50% Orcadian +25% French_Basque +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,992635
6 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,997053
7 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3,046862
8 50% Southwest_English +25% Italian_Abruzzo +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 3,094098
9 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Italian_Jewish @ 3,098765
10 50% Southwest_English +25% Italian_Abruzzo +25% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3,113787

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cyprian+French_Basque+West_Scottish+West_Scottish @ 2,621938
2 French_Basque+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish+Southeast_Eng lish @ 2,747968
3 French_Basque+Sephardic_Jewish+Southeast_English+W est_Scottish @ 2,818915
4 Cyprian+French_Basque+Southwest_English+West_Scott ish @ 2,858563
5 Cyprian+French_Basque+Irish+West_Scottish @ 2,861175
6 French_Basque+Irish+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,872339
7 French_Basque+Irish+Orcadian+Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,874171
8 French_Basque+North_Dutch+Sephardic_Jewish+Southwe st_English @ 2,890079
9 Danish+French_Basque+Sephardic_Jewish+Southwest_En glish @ 2,909445
10 French_Basque+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish+West_Scottish @ 2,910996
11 French_Basque+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish+Southwest_Eng lish @ 2,911489


That's just all the proportions the calculator can generate at close distance with the datas, the Oracle doesn't give anyone exact ancestry but it gives the right broad proportions that are usually very close to reality in 3 pop, if you actually have 3 distinctive ancestries.

Italy is extremely different than Ireland and France, it's a gigantic pull southward as you cross the southern half of the country, i don't think people realize this really well yet.

[MisterGaga]

Makes sense since the people who lived in SW France in what is not Basque Country spoke proto-basque languages during the Gallic era.

Yes. It was known as the Aquitanian/Vasconic domain. I have seen results of Gascon and it looked Basque , with slightly higher ANE and West Asian , I think.

[Dylan]

Yes. It was known as the Aquitanian/Vasconic domain. I have seen results of Gascons and it looked Basque , with slightly higher ANE and West Asian , I think.

Are there any maps that suggest the area of this domain?

[Lawalye]

I score 1,4% iberian, if it that can help.

[Nurzat]

Frenchmen are 100% French

[Dylan]

Abruzzo is central but very southern genetically, it's on par with West Sicily. Someone from Abruzzo will have more West Asian than a Sicilian and as much east med. Cyprians are similar genetically to Sephardic Jews (they are even more "southern" in some aspects, less N.Atlantic and more East med, 40%)

You score low Baltic for France (average is 17,5) and for Ireland (24). The Abruzzo region is at 8,5 and your score is 13%

It's simple math based on this, if you are 50% French + 25% Irish + 25% Italian, then the Italian would need to be at ... 0% to make 13% (even at zero it would give a 15% Baltic score), that's the main reason the Oracle can't give you an Italian population but something out of Europe with the remaining 25%, because 0% Baltic doesn't exist.


Basically, the more French and Irish you have, the more southern the Italian has to be, to the point it would be out of Europe on a pca chart. If the proportions are different with 50% British Isles, the Italian Abruzzo comes back in 3 pop and everything fits well, but in this case, it's also extremely south France and not Basque either, closer to a Spanish than anything else, like someone who would have lived at the border with Northeast Spain.


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% West_Scottish +25% Cyprian +25% French_Basque @ 2,621938
2 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,872339
3 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Italian_Jewish @ 2,947424
4 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2,983432
5 50% Orcadian +25% French_Basque +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,992635
6 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,997053
7 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3,046862
8 50% Southwest_English +25% Italian_Abruzzo +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 3,094098
9 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Italian_Jewish @ 3,098765
10 50% Southwest_English +25% Italian_Abruzzo +25% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3,113787

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cyprian+French_Basque+West_Scottish+West_Scottish @ 2,621938
2 French_Basque+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish+Southeast_Eng lish @ 2,747968
3 French_Basque+Sephardic_Jewish+Southeast_English+W est_Scottish @ 2,818915
4 Cyprian+French_Basque+Southwest_English+West_Scott ish @ 2,858563
5 Cyprian+French_Basque+Irish+West_Scottish @ 2,861175
6 French_Basque+Irish+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,872339
7 French_Basque+Irish+Orcadian+Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,874171
8 French_Basque+North_Dutch+Sephardic_Jewish+Southwe st_English @ 2,890079
9 Danish+French_Basque+Sephardic_Jewish+Southwest_En glish @ 2,909445
10 French_Basque+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish+West_Scottish @ 2,910996
11 French_Basque+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish+Southwest_Eng lish @ 2,911489


That's just all the proportions the calculator can generate at close distance with the datas, the Oracle doesn't give anyone exact ancestry but it gives the right broad proportions that are usually very close to reality in 3 pop, if you actually have 3 distinctive ancestries.

Italy is extremely different than Ireland and France, it's a gigantic pull southward as you cross the southern half of the country, i don't think people realize this really well yet.

thank you very much for the informative response!
The way I see it is that it replaces (in most cases) my Italian with Sephardic Jew/Cyrpian
Irish is replaced with Scottish/English or kept Irish
And my French ancestry it seems to split into half: One going up to the Isles and the other to Iberia (French Basque, Aragon, Andalucia)

why is it that you think its more Spanish and less Basque when French Basque shows up so much?

[MisterGaga]

Are there any maps that suggest the area of this domain?
Yeah if you Google image , you'd have access to many maps ; )

[Guapo]

How normal is it for someone who is of full French ancestry to get around 20% Iberian on 23andme?


This is from a French relative on 23andme. She is from Normandy. 23.8% iberian.


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60140&d=1439698211

[Dylan]

Yeah if you Google image , you'd have access to many maps ; )

didn't come across many good ones :(

[MisterGaga]

Google Gallic Aquitania maybe ;). Proto-Basque was mainly spoken in the area under the Garonne river in Roman era , but Aquitania in Roman era was larger and encompasses much of the Western zone and there are theories which indicate proto-Basque were widespread further north in more remote times.

[Dylan]

Google Gallic Aquitania maybe ;). Proto-Basque was mainly spoken in the area under the Garonne river in Roman era , but Aquitania in Roman era was larger and encompasses much of the Western zone and there are theories which indicate proto-Basque were widespread further north in more remote times.

its very interesting!

[Petalpusher]

thank you very much for the informative response!
The way I see it is that it replaces (in most cases) my Italian with Sephardic Jew/Cyrpian
Irish is replaced with Scottish/English or kept Irish
And my French ancestry it seems to split into half: One going up to the Isles and the other to Iberia (French Basque, Aragon, Andalucia)

why is it that you think its more Spanish and less Basque when French Basque shows up so much?

It fits your 23 results better in my opinion.

Everytime you get Basque, you get Cyprian or a Jewish population and i can assure you if that combination was the closest to reality, you would get very significant MENA on 23. Also you get more "Iberian" and "Italian" than "French&German" on 23 (35 British and 3.5 French vs 7 Iberian + 5 Italian on top of my head), more importantly the French&German isn't there anymore in standard, at all, which means it looks like it was very speculative. To give you an idea I score 20% Brit in spec, still 5% in standard, and this part may be 200 years old in the family. I know a guy from another forum who is half south French / half Algerian, he gets 16%spec 4%standard French on 23.

People living somewhere isn't the same thing than being ethnically in this country or plotting in this country. If you mix a Brit with an Italian you are going to end up in south of France and close to Spanish, that's how intense any Italian is. I would say even Brit + N.Italy puts you in the southern half of France genetically. You surely have some legit French ancestries that aren't outliers but it's hard to find something that points to it being the most predominant either on 23 or the ref calculators. To me it overwhelmingly looks that you just plot there.

Now this is one calculator approximations (the best, but a bit harsch/polarizing) and sometimes you have to look at the whole picture of all good calculators, the really important thing to read correctly into this afterall is understanding where populations are to each others genetically. You need this kind of map for this :

http://s17.postimg.org/oxo2up24v/7608896776_68881b6829_b.jpg



Maybe this one is better with a more comprehensive scale of distances

http://s29.postimg.org/ah0cwjlgn/eugenmap1.jpg



Few thoughts to give you an idea of the approximations you can get : Irish/Scottish/English are all extremely close, at this scale it's the same population genetically, they totally overlap in a British isles cluster. Wether you get English, Irish or Scottish means the same thing in an approximation.

Basques and Spain on the other hand are not the same, the Basques are more "NorthWest" in some ways than a lot of countries in Europe, they have a level of mesolithic that is closer to Northern Europe, it's an old, untouched, isolated population, to some extent like the Sardinians (both are kind of relics of the past or ancient genomes)

Cyprian/Cypriots (CY) are closer to the middle east genetically, as i said earlier they are even more out of Europe than both Jewish populations. Abruzzo would be somewhere between Greek and S.Italian.

I always use the last map to see quickly where an approximation puts someone. You make a point with the 2 most northern pop and another one with the least ones, genetically you end up in between these 2 points, with K13 it works really well.

[Dylan]

It fits your 23 results better in my opinion.

Everytime you get Basque, you get Cyprian or a Jewish population and i can assure you if that combination was the closest to reality, you would get very significant MENA on 23. Also you get more "Iberian" and "Italian" than "French&German" on 23 (35 British and 3.5 French vs 7 Iberian + 5 Italian on top of my head), more importantly the French&German isn't there anymore in standard, at all, which means it looks like it was very speculative. To give you an idea I score 20% Brit in spec, still 5% in standard, and this part may be 200 years old in the family. I know a guy from another forum who is half south French / half Algerian, he gets 16%spec 4%standard French on 23.

People living somewhere isn't the same thing than being ethnically in this country or plotting in this country. If you mix a Brit with an Italian you are going to end up in south of France and close to Spanish, that's how intense any Italian is. I would say even Brit + N.Italy puts you in the southern half of France genetically. You surely have some legit French ancestries that aren't outliers but it's hard to find something that points to it being the most predominant either on 23 or the ref calculators. To me it overwhelmingly looks that you just plot there.

Now this is one calculator approximations (the best, but a bit harsch/polarizing) and sometimes you have to look at the whole picture of all good calculators, the really important thing to read correctly into this afterall is understanding where populations are to each others genetically. You need this kind of map for this :

http://s17.postimg.org/oxo2up24v/7608896776_68881b6829_b.jpg



Maybe this one is better with a more comprehensive scale of distances

http://s29.postimg.org/ah0cwjlgn/eugenmap1.jpg



Few thoughts to give you an idea of the approximations you can get : Irish/Scottish/English are all extremely close, at this scale it's the same population genetically, they totally overlap in a British isles cluster. Wether you get English, Irish or Scottish means the same thing in an approximation.

Basques and Spain on the other hand are not the same, the Basques are more "NorthWest" in some ways than a lot of countries in Europe, they have a level of mesolithic that is closer to Northern Europe, it's an old, untouched, isolated population, to some extent like the Sardinians (both are kind of relics of the past or ancient genomes)

Cyprian/Cypriots (CY) are closer to the middle east genetically, as i said earlier they are even more out of Europe than both Jewish populations. Abruzzo would be somewhere between Greek and S.Italian.

I always use the last map to see quickly where an approximation puts someone. You make a point with the 2 most northern pop and another one with the least ones, genetically you end up in between these 2 points, with K13 it works really well.

very interesting. I have a long way to go with understanding these sorts of things.

According to 23andme's Global Similarity map, I place in both Northern and Southern Europe.
Within France. It plots me about as south as one could possibly be and a little bit east of the center.
Within Italy. It plots me about as far north as possible, and a little bit east of center.
But for some reason, the italian box is north of the north italian box, so while I plot north of North Italian. I also plot just north of Tuscan. I plot within normal Italian somehow though.
I also plot within Austria, but there are very few markers for Austrian and the box is huge.

When you say, take the 2 northern most points and 2 southern most points and plot them on the map? are you referring to the northern and southern most points that come up within the oracle on k13?

[Petalpusher]

very interesting. I have a long way to go with understanding these sorts of things.

According to 23andme's Global Similarity map, I place in both Northern and Southern Europe.
Within France. It plots me about as south as one could possibly be and a little bit east of the center.
Within Italy. It plots me about as far north as possible, and a little bit east of center.
But for some reason, the italian box is north of the north italian box, so while I plot north of North Italian. I also plot just north of Tuscan. I plot within normal Italian somehow though.
I also plot within Austria, but there are very few markers for Austrian and the box is huge.

When you say, take the 2 northern most points and 2 southern most points and plot them on the map? are you referring to the northern and southern most points that come up within the oracle on k13?

Did you post that map somewhere?

I refer to the 4pop approximation you get. Single population gives you the closest pop but not in which way you are deviating from it, and sometimes you are not very close to it even if you get it first. It's the purpose of 2,3 and 4 pop to tighten it with closer distances so you can pinpoint where you cluster more accuretly.

Let's say you get Irish + Scottish, you make a point halfway between those (it's very close) and then you make another intermediate with for example S.Italian and Basque. Then a final intermediate halfway between the two 2 points you ve just generated, that's where you cluster at closer distance on the pca. You ll see that all the clustering points you can make with the approximations should be close.

[Dylan]

Did you post that map somewhere?

I refer to the 4pop approximation you get. Single population gives you the closest pop but not in which way you are deviating from it, and sometimes you are not very close to it even if you get it first. It's the purpose of 2,3 and 4 pop to tighten it with closer distances so you can pinpoint where you cluster more accuretly.

Let's say you get Irish + Scottish, you make a point halfway between those (it's very close) and then you make another intermediate with for example S.Italian and Basque. Then a final intermediate halfway between the two 2 points you ve just generated, that's where you cluster at closer distance on the pca. You ll see that all the clustering points you can make with the approximations should be close.

60163
60164
60165
60166

Here are the screenshots to 23andme's map. Although the results for 23andme were pretty vague.

Thanks for the advice on making a manual one, I'm gonna try that.

[Petalpusher]

I don't understand how you can plot with Journeyman on the southern cluster, and just under me and some other French on the Northern, you should be on the left at a distance from N.Italy not above Italian.

[Dylan]

I don't understand how you can plot with Journeyman on the southern cluster, and just under me and some other French on the Northern, you should be on the left at a distance from N.Italy not above Italian.

I don't really understand how 23andme plotted me either.

[Alessio]

Abruzzo is central but very southern genetically, it's on par with West Sicily. Someone from Abruzzo will have more West Asian than a Sicilian and as much east med. Cyprians are similar genetically to Sephardic Jews (they are even more "southern" in some aspects, less N.Atlantic and more East med, 40%)

You score low Baltic for France (average is 17,5) and for Ireland (24). The Abruzzo region is at 8,5 and your score is 13%

It's simple math based on this, if you are 50% French + 25% Irish + 25% Italian, then the Italian would need to be at ... 0% to make 13% (even at zero it would give a 15% Baltic score), that's the main reason the Oracle can't give you an Italian population but something out of Europe with the remaining 25%, because 0% Baltic doesn't exist.


Basically, the more French and Irish you have, the more southern the Italian has to be, to the point it would be out of Europe on a pca chart. If the proportions are different with 50% British Isles, the Italian Abruzzo comes back in 3 pop and everything fits well, but in this case, it's also extremely south France and not Basque either, closer to a Spanish than anything else, like someone who would have lived at the border with Northeast Spain.


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% West_Scottish +25% Cyprian +25% French_Basque @ 2,621938
2 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,872339
3 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Italian_Jewish @ 2,947424
4 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2,983432
5 50% Orcadian +25% French_Basque +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,992635
6 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,997053
7 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3,046862
8 50% Southwest_English +25% Italian_Abruzzo +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 3,094098
9 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Italian_Jewish @ 3,098765
10 50% Southwest_English +25% Italian_Abruzzo +25% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3,113787

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cyprian+French_Basque+West_Scottish+West_Scottish @ 2,621938
2 French_Basque+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish+Southeast_Eng lish @ 2,747968
3 French_Basque+Sephardic_Jewish+Southeast_English+W est_Scottish @ 2,818915
4 Cyprian+French_Basque+Southwest_English+West_Scott ish @ 2,858563
5 Cyprian+French_Basque+Irish+West_Scottish @ 2,861175
6 French_Basque+Irish+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,872339
7 French_Basque+Irish+Orcadian+Sephardic_Jewish @ 2,874171
8 French_Basque+North_Dutch+Sephardic_Jewish+Southwe st_English @ 2,890079
9 Danish+French_Basque+Sephardic_Jewish+Southwest_En glish @ 2,909445
10 French_Basque+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish+West_Scottish @ 2,910996
11 French_Basque+Irish+Sephardic_Jewish+Southwest_Eng lish @ 2,911489


That's just all the proportions the calculator can generate at close distance with the datas, the Oracle doesn't give anyone exact ancestry but it gives the right broad proportions that are usually very close to reality in 3 pop, if you actually have 3 distinctive ancestries.

Italy is extremely different than Ireland and France, it's a gigantic pull southward as you cross the southern half of the country, i don't think people realize this really well yet.

There is variation though and not everyone from Marche is shifted to the north like north Tuscans for example; his results can be in line with his known ancestry, especially when his Abruzzese side is more southern shifted than the average Abruzzesi .

[gold_fenix]

Well, i am not placed in South or Northern population, these isn't place for me

[Alessio]

This is from a French relative on 23andme. She is from Normandy. 23.8% iberian.


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=60140&d=1439698211

Must be some Spaniards used in the reference population for ''Iberian'' that causes this I suppose.

[Petalpusher]

There is variation though and not everyone from Marche is shifted to the north like north Tuscans for example; his results can be in line with his known ancestry, especially when his Abruzzese side is more southern shifted than the average Abruzzesi .

That's what i tried to explain, if you combine Uk+France at 75% it has to be extremely south Italian to produce the datas of his genome, and you even have to consider the southernmost Uk and France shifted ancesties to begin with.

[Alessio]

That's what i tried to explain, if you combine Uk+France at 75% it has to be extremely south Italian to produce the datas of his genome, and you even have to consider the southernmost Uk and France shifted ancesties to begin with.

Must be one or 2 deviants then..

It'd be easier for Dylan if he'd test both his parents too.

[Dylan]

Must be one or 2 deviants then..

It'd be easier for Dylan if he'd test both his parents too.

I plan on testing my grandparents at some point soon. I expect its my dad considering he looks straight up Levantine whereas my mom looks like what she is, but phenotypes can be pretty unreliable.

[Dylan]

That's what i tried to explain, if you combine Uk+France at 75% it has to be extremely south Italian to produce the datas of his genome, and you even have to consider the southernmost Uk and France shifted ancesties to begin with.

This makes sense, but I have some suspicion that my dad's genotype is more south shifted than most French as well.