New classification request :)

[NewGuy]

Hi, after introducing my self, i want to explain how i stumbled upon this forum, and why i registered :)

Recently, i got interested in my ancestors - where they came from, who exactly they were and so on. In the end, i started thinking wider, about my origin. That's how i got interested in "classify" matter. The only problem is that i'm not an expert, i don't have experience and classifying (as far as i realized) needs quite broad knowledge... Now - here I am, hoping that here i could find someone who knows what part of face to look at :)

Some additional details: i'm 186 (6'1) tall, i was blonde until 5 or 6 yr. old. :)

P.S. Sorry for my bad English, it's not my primary language ;)

[RoyBatty]

Welcome, your English is good by the way!

[Gamera]

You look like other Serbian people I've seen. I'm guessing slavic? Can't think of anything else.

[NewGuy]

Slavic? :) Maybe, but unlikely.... Long time ago, when 1 000 000 Slavs settled Balkan, there was already about 10 000 000 ancient (pre-Slavic) people living here. I heard that today, only 10% of Serbs and 15% of Croats have Slavic origin :)

Another thing - my eyes are hazel (dark green with some brown overlay), but sometimes they are more green, sometimes more brown.
Also my hair is black, but during summer on sunlight, it's more like dark brown. (weird huh?) :D

[NordicFrost]

Dinarid+Pontid+Med and some minor non-european admixture

[NewGuy]

Interesting! Can you tell me which parts of my face told you that "dinaric", "pontid", "med" story? And also, which part looks "non-e"? :)

[Guapo]

Slavic? :) Maybe, but unlikely.... Long time ago, when 1 000 000 Slavs settled Balkan, there was already about 10 000 000 ancient (pre-Slavic) people living here.

Wut.

[NordicFrost]

Interesting! Can you tell me which parts of my face told you that "dinaric", "pontid", "med" story? And also, which part looks "non-e"? :)

I can't tell you anything specific,i'm not an expert.
To me you look like a blend of those subtypes

[NewGuy]

@off topic:
@El Guapo:
Yes, mostly Illyrians. Byzantine emperor had problems with people of Balkan (from earlier Illyrians and Tracians were known as "enemies of civilized mankind") so he called Slavs (Sorbs and Croats) to deal with them. That's what school was teaching us :)

Those Slavs who came to Balkan (from "White Serbia" and "White Croatia") were described by ancient Byzantium historians as tall people with blond or reddish hair, narrow face, long skull. Beside height, that description do not match many of modern day inhibitors of Balkan ;)

[Osweo]

...described by ancient Byzantium historians as tall people with blond or reddish hair, narrow face, long skull. Beside height, that description do not match many of modern day inhibitors of Balkan ;)

Everyone in ancient history was described like that, near enough, and yet we look around everywhere in Europe today except the very far north east, and we see that it was nonsense.

You underestimate the Slav in you. Languages don't spread from tiny bands of conquerors in preliterate regions.

[MagnaLaurentia]

Josh Gorges-oid (less robust)

Defenseman of Canadiens of Montréal (hockey team).

http://cdn.nhl.com/photos/mugs/8470324.jpg

http://cdn.nhl.com/canadiens/images/upload/2009/02/gorges_inside.jpg

http://www.rds.ca/images/chroniques/286334.jpg

http://media.canada.com/b1ebd207-78c7-4022-aed7-0925c5ee8f77/gorges091209.jpg

[Eldritch]

some minor non-european admixture

Non-European is about as wide a term as they come. Can you be more specific?

[NewGuy]

You underestimate the Slav in you. Languages don't spread from tiny bands of conquerors in preliterate regions.

No friend! I don't! After all i speak slavic language :) I have no reason to dislike Slavs in any way! :) How knows, maybe i have some grand grand grand....father who was Slav settler. I just wanted to say that on Balkan, there are huge chances that i might not have that kind of background, although i speak slavic language :)

[lei.talk]

Dinarid (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#Dinaric)+Pontid (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#Pontid)+Med (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#MEDITERRANID) and some minor non-european admixture


http://i27.tinypic.com/21l1zlx.png (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm)

[d3cimat3d]

Slavic? :) Maybe, but unlikely.... Long time ago, when 1 000 000 Slavs settled Balkan, there was already about 10 000 000 ancient (pre-Slavic) people living here. I heard that today, only 10% of Serbs and 15% of Croats have Slavic origin :)

Another thing - my eyes are hazel (dark green with some brown overlay), but sometimes they are more green, sometimes more brown.
Also my hair is black, but during summer on sunlight, it's more like dark brown. (weird huh?) :D

You're the first Serb I seen who denies strong connections to Slavs, which is a good thing because I hate seeing the Illyrians get ignored.

If I didn't know you were Serbian I would've guessed Georgian, you have a Caucasus thing going on, just without the Dinarization.

[NewGuy]

@Nomad:
I'm not denying! I'm just saying that Illyrian "component" present on Balkan should not be underestimated because of daily politics. If all those things from history lessons are correct, then, by logic, there's bigger chance that someone from Balkan get "Balkan" then Slavic origin. Personally, I don't care if i'm....60% Slavic 40% other, or vice versa :)
In any case - what can i do about it? Go back in time and change my ancestors? :D

[Aramis]

You and I have some characteristics in common. Your skull looks like mine in profile, yet if viewed from the front I one would notice my face to be wider.
Also your jaw, ears and eye region reminds of mine.

All in all, I don't look like you per se, but it's obvious that we two share common ancestors from the same regions (Vojvodina, Hercegovina, Montenegro). :)

[Guapo]

@off topic:
@El Guapo:
Yes, mostly Illyrians. Byzantine emperor had problems with people of Balkan (from earlier Illyrians and Tracians were known as "enemies of civilized mankind") so he called Slavs (Sorbs and Croats) to deal with them. That's what school was teaching us :)

Those Slavs who came to Balkan (from "White Serbia" and "White Croatia") were described by ancient Byzantium historians as tall people with blond or reddish hair, narrow face, long skull. Beside height, that description do not match many of modern day inhibitors of Balkan ;)

He called Slavs to deal with the Avars. Illyirans and thracians were long gone before the Serbs settled. There were various slavic migrations, it didn't happen overnight.

[Osweo]

How knows, maybe i have some grand grand grand....father who was Slav settler. I just wanted to say that on Balkan, there are huge chances that i might not have that kind of background, although i speak slavic language :)
Everyone in the Balkans will have Slavonic ancestors to some degree. Even many Greeks, Rumanians and Albanians. If you go back a millenium - how many grandfathers do you have? I don't have time or desire to do the maths, but it's millions... a good few hundred will have been Slavs. (Many of your Slavonic grandfathers will of course have been the same individual but never mind that! :p) And successful conquerors often breed much better than larger conquered folks, remember.

He called Slavs to deal with the Avars. Illyirans and thracians were long gone before the Serbs settled. There were various slavic migrations, it didn't happen overnight.
Long gone? Linguistically sure, in many areas, but who do you think are the direct ancestors of the various Vlachs that are still around in many places? The blood remains.

[NewGuy]

Yes, i forgot about Avars :)

Anyway, i came here because on some similar forum, after posting same photos, members were quite divided - few of them claimed that i look, quote, "Nordid-Dinarid mix with Baltid influence" (really, after checking pictures of Nordic persons, that "Nordic" part looks quite unlikely), and others claimed that i'm "Pontid" or "robust med" with "turanid influence". That's why i wanted to hear your oppinion :)

The more opinions i hear, the better picture i get :)

[Aramis]

Robust Pontid with slight Turanid influece sounds plausible, no?

[Guapo]

Long gone? Linguistically sure, in many areas, but who do you think are the direct ancestors of the various Vlachs that are still around in many places? The blood remains.

I've never heard one claim that they're descended from Illyrians or Thracians, just Roman soldiers. You've got the Cincars that claim they're descended from the 5th Roman legion but that legion wasn't comprised of Balkanoids but Gauls from France.

[Osweo]

I've never heard one claim that they're descended from Illyrians or Thracians, just Roman soldiers. You've got the Cincars that claim they're descended from the 5th Roman legion but that legion wasn't comprised of Balkanoids but Gauls from France.

Not Gauls from France, necessarily, but Celts from Austria, Bohemia, Southern Germany, Hungary etc.

BUT, who did these Celts encounter when they moved down the Dunai? Who did they marry into, enslave, ally with?

Same goes for the Legionaries - who did they marry?

And many Vlachs are of a more or less pastoral way of life. The Veterans settled in coloniae, farming and engaging in minor trade. Did these townsmen all adopt an unfamiliar way of life, without at least some instruction and assistance from the native 'experts'? Shepherds are more likely the descendants of populations influenced by the colonists. (There's supposedly a lot of Palaeo-Balkan, 'Para-ALbanian', in their vocab)

[NewGuy]

That "turanid" influnce - could it be from Avars, Mongols, Huns, Ottomans?

Is it possible to connect it to any specific nation, or period or it could be anything including random mutations?

[Guapo]

That "turanid" influnce - could it be from Avars, Mongols, Huns, Ottomans?

Germanics too.


Is it possible to connect it to any specific nation, or period or it could be anything including random mutations?

No, People can look pseudo-Turanid like Norwegians too

[Guapo]

Not Gauls from France, necessarily, but Celts from Austria, Bohemia, Southern Germany, Hungary etc.

BUT, who did these Celts encounter when they moved down the Dunai? Who did they marry into, enslave, ally with?

Same goes for the Legionaries - who did they marry?

And many Vlachs are of a more or less pastoral way of life. The Veterans settled in coloniae, farming and engaging in minor trade. Did these townsmen all adopt an unfamiliar way of life, without at least some instruction and assistance from the native 'experts'? Shepherds are more likely the descendants of populations influenced by the colonists. (There's supposedly a lot of Palaeo-Balkan, 'Para-ALbanian', in their vocab)

From Germany? Noooo :cry2 Maybe they married Roman colonists already living there. An interesting story: The smallest Orthodox church, which fits about 3-4 people from what I recall, in a village in Serbia was used as a christening depot for Saxon miners in the Middle Ages according to historians. When the villagers heard that they might be descended from Germanics they vehemently denied it and some even cried :D Which coincides with the saying, if you're Orthodox then you're a Serb. Thousands of Cumans were Serbianized/christened in the Middle Ages as well. Both the Cumans and the Tatars settled and mingled with the local population in various regions of the Balkans.

[NewGuy]

Oh, yes, i found some other pict of me. Big difference huh? :D

[Aramis]

Oh, yes, i found some other pict of me. Big difference huh? :D

No! ;)

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3794/test2qs.jpg

[Guapo]

Oh, yes, i found some other pict of me. Big difference huh? :D

That's ok. I looked like a Chink too but I had red hair.

[thundercreek]

Dinarid, Mediterranean

[Fintorah]

Primarily Baltid, with gracile features which indicate Balticization, as well as strong Atlantid influences.

[NewGuy]

Wow, that's some new opinion :)))

[kwp_wp]

Wow, that's some new opinion :)))

Oh just don't mind it.;)
Everybody has a right to be wrong sometimes...
IMHO East-Alpinid with some slight Turanid addition would fits you the most. Maybe also slight Dinaricization but definitely not Baltid

[Guapo]

you should post a pic of your parents.

[NewGuy]

Parents? Why? Primary idea was to classify me, not my parents :D Even few pictures of mine made big confusion, 4 pages :)))) Honestly, in the beginning i thought that classifying me would be easy :)

P.S. Sorry for delay ;)

[Aemma]

Primarily Baltid, with gracile features which indicate Balticization, as well as strong Atlantid influences.

Ok but for those of us who are still learners: can you state the reasons for your claims pls? Specifically, why do gracile features indicate Balticization? And which features of NewGuy's are primarily Baltid and which have Atlantid influences?

[Guapo]

Parents? Why? Primary idea was to classify me, not my parents :D Even few pictures of mine made big confusion, 4 pages :)))) Honestly, in the beginning i thought that classifying me would be easy :)

P.S. Sorry for delay ;)

You are a mix of different sub types, maybe your parents are not and would give you a better idea as how to classify yourself.

Pics of my parenta made it more clear for me.

http://images.tvrage.com/people/68/203945.jpg
http://www.duymadim.com/wp-content/veronica_zemanova_1024x768_004.jpg

I know I know, my mom's hot :cool:

[Pallantides]

Germanics too.



No, People can look pseudo-Turanid like Norwegians too

Only the warrior elite of Norway.

from wiki:

The frequency of haplogroup Q in Norway is about 4%, while 3% of Hungarian males are in haplogroup Q.

Atli!

[NewGuy]

Only the warrior elite of Norway.

?? Vikings? Berserkers? varangian guard?

Hmmm....whenever i heard, or saw, something about "north soldiers", their description would mostly fit in something like this:

http://www.decorforhouses.com/my_files/images/viking_fan__1.jpg

(of course, with true blond hair and red face) :)

I never saw any representation of "elite Norway solider" with some Asian traits :)

[Pallantides]

There was undoubtly as much phenotypical varity among the Norsemen as it is in modern ethnic Scandinavians.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16460&page=2

[NewGuy]

@Pallantides
Interesting!

Speaking of "devil" - pict from interview with Norwegian tourist in Belgrade (blond girl on the right) ;)

Sweet! ;)

[NewGuy]

now (after few months of pause) something creepy hehe :D MRI of my skull :D
Few days ago i suffered head injury so i visited a doctor and had my skull scanned. Here are some pictures of my skull viewed from TOP :)

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8229/83053179.jpg
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9826/36403544.jpg

P.S. i'm ok now, so cheers! :)

[Fintorah]

I no longer stand by my previous classification of Baltid + Atlantid in any way, sir :P. I don't believe I had ever checked out the SNPA before I posted that classification. I think I'd probably have posted something similar to kwp_wp's classification if I'd known better.

Interesting MRI pictures. I must say that a skull seems to be present there.