Ancient Greek?

[Liffrea]

Anyone here know how to speak/read it? Classical languages were not covered when I studied for my degree in archaeology, I’ve often regretted it, reading Homer in Greek would be good.

[Groenewolf]

I follow a home-study course for it. But my understanding of it is not really that good (yet).

[Psychonaut]

Almost...

I studied Ελληνιστική Κοινή in college in tandem with New Testament critical analysis.

[Osweo]

There's plenty of dusty old primers from the 30s in second hand bookshops, going for about 50p, you know. I have a few books myself; just never got round to it.

I'd say Latin was more useful to one of an archaeological bent in this part of Europe though...

[Arrow Cross]

What's more intresting; how much of it would a modern Greek understand?

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Osweo
I'd say Latin was more useful to one of an archaeological bent in this part of Europe though...

But probably not if you wish to read Homer in the original.:D


Originally Posted by Arrow Cross
What's more intresting; how much of it would a modern Greek understand?

I would have thought considerably more than a Modern English user would understand Old English, I’m working through an OE course and a text of Beowulf at the moment, I don’t know whether it’s “hard” as the only languages I’ve looked at in the past were French at school and later on German, which I intend to take up again at some point. It is challenging, though.

[Foxy]

I've studied it for 5 years at the classical lyceum and I made the final exam to obtain the degree with a translation from old Greek. Let me forget that nightmare......

[Foxy]

What's more intresting; how much of it would a modern Greek understand?

When I was at the lyceum they took us in Greece for a scholastic trip and, well, nobody understands old greek. Is like if you speak in Latin to an Italian or to a Spanish, with the difference that Italian is more similar to Latin than modern Greek to old Greek.

[Groenewolf]

Ancient Greek is of course mostly useful for getting a more direct understanding of the classical literature of Europe, to a certain extent that also goes for Latin. And of course as a sign that you have received an elite-education. Which I, regret to say it thanks to them not recognizing my extreme high intelligence, have not received and now have to make up for.

[Alexander]

Hello everyone,

Firstly, I would like to point out that it is entirely fallacious to claim that there is little connection between Classical and Modern Greek. Anyone who is decent enough in the modern vernacular can, with a little effort, understand the gist of a classical passage of text.

From my experience, the same cannot be said from Classical speakers jumping into a Modern text--I'm sure it has much to do with the pedantry of classicists and their terrible Erasmian or Anglicised pronunciations.

I invite you all to read "Greek: A History of the Language and its Speakers, 2nd Edition" by Geoffrey Horrocks, which is a wonderful book which shows the evolution of Greek. I own the book and also have it in digital form, so maybe I can upload some passages, if anyone would like to see some classical/byzantine/modern similarities and differences.

Learning any stage of Greek will ultimately help you learn another stage of Greek, just at differing levels of comprehension. An example, learning Modern means you should be able to jump into Byzantine/Christian Greek with few troubles.

Well, there is my first post! Lovely to be here.

[Comte Arnau]

Every proud European should have some basic knowledge of both Latin and ancient Greek. It does not happen to be so, hence the decline of the European pride.

[Psychonaut]

Every proud European should have some basic knowledge of both Latin and ancient Greek. It does not happen to be so, hence the decline of the European pride.

:nod:

I nod my head as I stroke Liddell & Scott's Greek—English Lexicon that sits perched on the book shelf next to my desk.

[Turkophagos]

"Ancient" greek language?

Greek language should be considered as a whole, since it has been spoken and written continously for 4000 years, and when divided that should be done according to the historical period (mycynaean, homeric, classical, hellenistic, byzantine, modern) and the different dialects that has been spoken during them.

Greek language evolved much faster from the linear b scripts to the classical writings than from Plato's language till today.

[Comte Arnau]

'Ancient' can simply be used to distinguish it from modern Greek, no need to get mad. Just like your average English speaker today can't get a fucking word from the Beowulf but we still call it Old English. :D

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Ibex
Just like your average English speaker today can't get a fucking word from the Beowulf but we still call it Old English.

Oh I wouldn’t go that far, I think a Modern English speaker with no knowledge of Old English at all could still pick out a fair amount of words, true they wouldn’t have much chance of following the text.

[Óttar]

I'm taking a class in it now. I am hanging by a thread. It drives me nuts. Hardest freaking language ever. Nobody can ever complain about easy shit like Spanish and French.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I'm taking a class in it now. I am hanging by a thread. It drives me nuts. Hardest freaking language ever. Nobody can ever complain about easy shit like Spanish and French.

How is it hard? Learn how to read the alphabet, next you learn the phrases then the grammar. Done. All you need is effort.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I never really got how Medieval and Modern Greek split. Could an expert on this matter explain how that happened? My guess is that it was the consequence of the collapse of the Byzantine Empire which caused a linguistic decline among the Greeks as the more educated Greeks fled the Ottomans by traveling to Italy and triggering a Renaissance whereas the Greek heartland, the Balkans was left destitute with the uneducated class. This is just a guess, hardly an educated one!

[San Galgano]

I never really got how Medieval and Modern Greek split. Could an expert on this matter explain how that happened? My guess is that it was the consequence of the collapse of the Byzantine Empire which caused a linguistic decline among the Greeks as the more educated Greeks fled the Ottomans by traveling to Italy and triggering a Renaissance whereas the Greek heartland, the Balkans was left destitute with the uneducated class. This is just a guess, hardly an educated one!
:confused:
It is not like everybody who knew old stately greek flee to Italy in that time.

Anyway if we follow the latin decline in Europe it is because the vulgar latin was spoken by a greater number of people-mostly illiterate- and that vulgar latin was already a mix of proper latin, german, greek, iberic etc due to the Roman empire and legionaries, which had nothing to do with the one used by Virgil and Cato.

[Óttar]

How is it hard? Learn how to read the alphabet, next you learn the phrases then the grammar. Done. All you need is effort.
Not Modern Greek or Koine, Attic. The alphabet is not hard, it is the least of my problems. I hate how subjunctive and optative are 2 separate cases. Active, middle and passive each with a different case. 2 Aorists!? I hate all the talk about conditional clauses divided by alveolar fricative = laryngeal double plus ungood causal periphrastic squared. Not to mention all the endings look exactly the same whether an inflected verb, participle, or substantive noun. I came to learn a language, not f__ing calculus.

[poiuytrewq0987]

:confused:
It is not like everybody who knew old stately greek flee to Italy in that time.

Well, it was not a coincidence that the decline of the Balkans began exactly when the Ottoman Empire conquered it... the same time Italy had a renaissance. It'd be like the Arabs conquering Italy and the Italian upper class having no choice but to migrate to the Balkans and triggering a renaissance there.


Anyway if we follow the latin decline in Europe it is because the vulgar latin was spoken by a greater number of people-mostly illiterate- and that vulgar latin was already a mix of proper latin, german, greek, iberic etc due to the Roman empire and legionaries, which had nothing to do with the one used by Virgil and Cato.It'd be pretty interesting if the Romans had a better education system in the Empire then perhaps proper Latin would've been more widely spoken.

[San Galgano]

Well, it was not a coincidence that the decline of the Balkans began exactly when the Ottoman Empire conquered it... the same time Italy had a renaissance. It'd be like the Arabs conquering Italy and the Italian upper class having no choice but to migrate to the Balkans and triggering a renaissance there.
We already spoken about this long time ago pal..;)
Sure byzantines have had a part in the birth of Renaissance, but it has been a mix of things that can't be reduced only to the arrive of them in Italy.
The re-discovery of classic time had a boost surely, but in Florence there were already cultural circles with people like Dante and Petrarca.


It'd be pretty interesting if the Romans had a better education system in the Empire then perhaps proper Latin would've been more widely spoken.
That would have been interesting even if i think that latin would have changed anyway.
Kids in european schools learn to speak their proper language, but once they get out they speak different, and slangs are diffused everywhere.

[poiuytrewq0987]

We already spoken about this long time ago pal..;)
Sure byzantines have had a part in the birth of Renaissance, but it has been a mix of things that can't be reduced only to the arrive of them in Italy.
The re-discovery of classic time had a boost surely, but in Florence there were already cultural circles with people like Dante and Petrarca.

Well, yes but the Renaissance in Italy would've been not as significant if it were not for Byzantine Greek intelligentsia migrating to Italy after the fall of Constantinople.

[San Galgano]

Well, yes but the Renaissance in Italy would've been not as significant if it were not for Byzantine Greek intelligentsia migrating to Italy after the fall of Constantinople.


They have had a part in Renaissance, above all the one to bring classic latin and greek texts in a place who was already fermenting of humanistic processes.
Let's say Europe owes a lot both to Balkans and Italy.

[jerney]

Not Modern Greek or Koine, Attic. The alphabet is not hard, it is the least of my problems. I hate how subjunctive and optative are 2 separate cases. Active, middle and passive each with a different case. 2 Aorists!? I hate all the talk about conditional clauses divided by alveolar fricative = laryngeal double plus ungood causal periphrastic squared. Not to mention all the endings look exactly the same whether an inflected verb, participle, or substantive noun. I came to learn a language, not f__ing calculus.

lol I've never even heard of the "optative" case. What is it exactly? And I thought Greek was one of the most inflected indo-European languages?

[Radojica]

I heard that modern Greek is quite easy for Serbs to learn. My brother, after 8 months spent on Crete has been told that he is speaking Greek language like he is living in Greece for years...

[poiuytrewq0987]

I heard that modern Greek is quite easy for Serbs to learn. My brother, after 8 months spent on Crete has been told that he is speaking Greek language like he is living in Greece for years...

More proof that today's Greeks and the modern Greek language are just Hellenised Slavs and the language a derivative of the Serbocroatian language. :D

[Radojica]

More proof that today's Greeks and the modern Greek language are just Hellenised Slavs and the language a derivative of the Serbocroatian language. :D

This does not make any sense to me :confused:
Mixture of Old Slavonic and ancient Greek are what we are calling modern South Slavic languages (Serbian and Bulgarian), no? Gahh, I am totally ignorant about this subject, maybe it would be the best to shut up :shy:

[Turkophagos]

'Ancient' can simply be used to distinguish it from modern Greek, no need to get mad. Just like your average English speaker today can't get a fucking word from the Beowulf but we still call it Old English. :D

I'm not getting mad. My point is that you can distinguish modern greek comparing to one of the previous forms of the language. To use the term "ancient" covering 2500 years of evolution of a language is ridicilous. Mycynaean greek were already "ancient" to classical Greeks.

[Turkophagos]

...

[Óttar]

lol I've never even heard of the "optative" case. What is it exactly? And I thought Greek was one of the most inflected indo-European languages?
Optative is like a wishing case. It is a part of the subjunctive in Latin. Attic Greek is hands down the hardest and most frustrating language I have ever studied.