On European standards

[The Lawspeaker]

The majority of us is very much anti-EU but do you think that some things should be arranged communally by European countries in order to straighten the path for further economic integration, commercial expansion and to overcome hurdles for traffic and travel ?

What are your ideas ?

Here are mine: I think that some things should indeed be arranged communally and harmonized where possible (when local voters would give the go-ahead): like voltage (already happening), household plugs, traffic rules, traffic signs, types of petrol used (that we won't need additives in some countries anymore) and safety standards (and procedures) on roads and railways.

F.i:

I would be in favour of completely revising the electricity system in Europe while harmonizing the voltage and the plugs that are being used so one doesn't need to buy special adapters anymore that make sure that your laptop or phone doesn't get roasted when you travel to some other country.
Also European countries should try to link their power grids (while still using safety procedures that make sure that all of Europe doesn't collapse into a brown-outs) together as to make sure that if one country has a surplus and the other has increased demand that we can help each other out.

Electricity:

Common household voltage: 230V
Common plug: IEC 60906-1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/IEC-906-1-plug.svg

When it comes to traffic rules I would be favour of harmonizing traffic as well.

Either we would drive on the left-hand side of the road or the right-hand side and as LHD seems to be the safest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic#Safety_factors) Europe should perhaps switch to the left.



: It has been suggested this is partly because humans are more commonly right-eye dominant than left-eye dominant. In left-hand traffic, the predominantly better-performing right eye is used to monitor oncoming traffic and the driver's wing mirror.


For motorways one could indicate that one can drop the speed limit if motorways are lit enough at night and safe - when there is little other traffic.



And when it comes to traffic signs one could come to one unified design, the same font, the same pictograms and the same colours (as it would make travel easier for travellers don't have to learn to understand a whole new set of traffic signs when travelling).



On motorways one could use one font and one background colour (green, white or blue whatever is clearest).


All traffic signs (including street name signs) should be lit at night.

[Susi]

I think this is a good thread... for me the most important things in terms of "public" services are rail and post. They serve almost every aspect of society. We all know what happened when rail was privatised in Britain... I think a better integration of the continental rail systems would be good -- i.e. unified fares (I had to pay 60 euros on DeutscheBahn for one route and for the same route I had to pay 90 euros on NSrail, for example) and schedules as well as customer service (so if you have a problem with an NSrail train linking to a DeutscheBahn train you're not completely effed).

Postal distribution is expensive but if it is also linked then it will be more efficient to post something throughout Europe. Then again, it could already be. I'm just speculating.

In regards to your propositions, I think that LHD is an intriguing idea but converting all o the infrastructure to reflect this (public transit, roadways, signage, etc.) would be far too expensive. Besides that most countries already use RHD anyways.. <_<

Many traffic signs are already 'uniform' in a way I find... at least speed limit and stop signs.

I like the idea of lighting signage but it should probably be integrated into street lighting rather than lighting the signs themselves directly (cost and practicality).

Great thread idea! </infrastructure geek>

[The Lawspeaker]

I think this is a good thread... for me the most important things in terms of "public" services are rail and post. They serve almost every aspect of society. We all know what happened when rail was privatised in Britain... I think a better integration of the continental rail systems would be good -- i.e. unified fares (I had to pay 60 euros on DeutscheBahn for one route and for the same route I had to pay 90 euros on NSrail, for example) and schedules as well as customer service (so if you have a problem with an NSrail train linking to a DeutscheBahn train you're not completely effed).
Unified fares would be a good idea. And where possible unified voltage and a unified gauge (not applicable in the mountains of course..). It would also be a good idea to electrify all of Europe's transport system.
Unified fares and tight unified schedules would definetely enhance inter-European train travel. That businesses want to make money is alright but a lot of companies have dramatically failed the public so they should be curtailed in order to protect the (confidence in the) market. Also customer service should definetely be made to adhere to standards.




Postal distribution is expensive but if it is also linked then it will be more efficient to post something throughout Europe. Then again, it could already be. I'm just speculating.
That's actually a good idea. They are doing something similar to the cost of calling and texting now and it might actually work.




In regards to your propositions, I think that LHD is an intriguing idea but converting all o the infrastructure to reflect this (public transit, roadways, signage, etc.) would be far too expensive. Besides that most countries already use RHD anyways.. <_<
LHD would be sound for both economic, political and traffic safety reasons.
Let me sum them up. In that way most of Europe can start converting to new cars using new, cleaner and safer technologies. If the car industry can be made to produce hydrogen and electric LHD cars one can get the poluting old stuff off the road and weaken the position of oil producing countries. LHD would also please the British that are now feeling that Europe is taking over their country and also increase traffic safety (also because it would drive all those dangerous elderly off the road and into public transport. And trust me: they are dangerous and annoying drivers :thumb001:). We would need to produce the infrastructure to maintain fuel cell and electric cars and install stations to charge them along roads, motorways, town centers and .. small ones into ones own private home.



Many traffic signs are already 'uniform' in a way I find... at least speed limit and stop signs.
Not really. Polish signs are rather different from let's say German signs:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Znak_D-15.svg
(Polish)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Zeichen_224.svg
(German).
(Both are indicating a bus stop)

It should be made to such an extend that exactly the same font, colours and shapes are being used.




I like the idea of lighting signage but it should probably be integrated into street lighting rather than lighting the signs themselves directly (cost and practicality).
Something like this could work too:

http://www.solar-constructions.com/solar%20signalisatie%2002.jpg

Or when a street sign is attached to a house just add a lamp. :)



Great thread idea! </infrastructure geek>
Thanks a lot ! <fellow infrastructure geek> :)

[Invictus_88]

The good brought about by the EU can be brought about without the EU.

The power pulling up away from people up to the supranational level is a bitter pill, and not one - it seems - one should accept without a good deal of careful consideration.

[The Lawspeaker]

The good brought about by the EU can be brought about without the EU.

The power pulling up away from people up to the supranational level is a bitter pill, and not one - it seems - one should accept without a good deal of careful consideration.
That's a thought-terminating cliché. Agreed the EU is bad (we all know that by now) but is there something that you believe should be harmonized Europe-wide ?

[hajduk]

Good thread.
All the immigration, erosion of culture, shrinking white population are of course problems, but idea of unity of white people against common enemies is appealing to me.

[Susi]

Unified fares would be a good idea. And where possible unified voltage and a unified gauge (not applicable in the mountains of course..). It would also be a good idea to electrify all of Europe's transport system.

Or at least not given a unified voltage/gauge system a proper transfer system instead of not even knowing the proper track numbers and times (thanks, NSrail, for stranding me in Venlo)


Unified fares and tight unified schedules would definetely enhance inter-European train travel. That businesses want to make money is alright but a lot of companies have dramatically failed the public so they should be curtailed in order to protect the (confidence in the) market. Also customer service should definetely be made to adhere to standards.

An expansion of the ICE system would also be nice and higher fare subsidisation would make me happy. I generally have had no problems with DeutscheBahn, perhaps the system should be run similarly.


That's actually a good idea. They are doing something similar to the cost of calling and texting now and it might actually work.

For example, here in Canada (2nd largest country in the world) it still only costs me 57 cents to send a letter to the furthest point from me. I wanted to send a letter from Germany to Holland and I think it was around 70 euro cents. And between those two countries are dense rail/air/road linkages...


LHD would be sound for both economic, political and traffic safety reasons.
Let me sum them up. In that way most of Europe can start converting to new cars using new, cleaner and safer technologies. If the car industry can be made to produce hydrogen and electric LHD cars one can get the poluting old stuff off the road and weaken the position of oil producing countries. LHD would also please the British that are now feeling that Europe is taking over their country and also increase traffic safety (also because it would drive all those dangerous elderly off the road and into public transport. And trust me: they are dangerous and annoying drivers :thumb001:). We would need to produce the infrastructure to maintain fuel cell and electric cars and install stations to charge them along roads, motorways, town centers and .. small ones into ones own private home.

Despite preferring LHD, I still disagree. I think that you can use new, cleaner and safer technologies with RHD. The scale at which you propose replacing infrastructure is unsustainable in a capitalistic system. Under a different system however...


Not really. Polish signs are rather different from let's say German signs:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Znak_D-15.svg
(Polish)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Zeichen_224.svg
(German).
(Both are indicating a bus stop)

I cannot see the photos, but bus stop signs are different in every city, not just every country. BVG in Berlin has different signage than KVB in the Rhine region. I was referring more to road signs than transit signs.


It should be made to such an extend that exactly the same font, colours and shapes are being used.

Usually they're quite similar... I think being too harsh with it is unnecessarily modernist-ish (if that makes sense.. I recall a building in Toronto built by van der Rohe, one of the greatest buildings, but he insisted they use his furniture, typeface, etc... ) at this scale it's possible but I think to impose it all across Europe; there are many different geographies and environments so I think the signs should be adapted to their locations.




Or when a street sign is attached to a house just add a lamp. :)




I think that street lights provide sufficient lumination for street signs. Anything else would be excessive.

[The Lawspeaker]

Or at least not given a unified voltage/gauge system a proper transfer system instead of not even knowing the proper track numbers and times (thanks, NSrail, for stranding me in Venlo)

There should be a unified system in order to make sure that such unnecessary inconvenience (and possibly danger) can no longer take place.



An expansion of the ICE system would also be nice and higher fare subsidisation would make me happy. I generally have had no problems with DeutscheBahn, perhaps the system should be run similarly.
It should simply be the case for for instance the Netherlands and Belgium that mayor international high speed trains "dock" at mayor train stations as well. Even if the country is too small for real high speed rail it should still be connected. Look for instance the unique opportunities that Denmark and the countries in Central Europe offer as corridors for inter-European transportation.




For example, here in Canada (2nd largest country in the world) it still only costs me 57 cents to send a letter to the furthest point from me. I wanted to send a letter from Germany to Holland and I think it was around 70 euro cents. And between those two countries are dense rail/air/road linkages...
That's definetely something that should be arranged because Europe is a lot smaller then Canada and hence should there be one unified price system.




Despite preferring LHD, I still disagree. I think that you can use new, cleaner and safer technologies with RHD. The scale at which you propose replacing infrastructure is unsustainable in a capitalistic system. Under a different system however...
Then perhaps it should be made attractive. Dropping all taxes on green technology while keeping the taxes on the old technology intact and changing traffic to LHD would be a nice start.




I cannot see the photos, but bus stop signs are different in every city, not just every country. BVG in Berlin has different signage than KVB in the Rhine region. I was referring more to road signs than transit signs.
That's something that I always consider to be somewhat confusing. When you drive or be on a bike you have to take a decision in a split second and you simply cannot take that second of confusion when you are abroad.




Usually they're quite similar... I think being too harsh with it is unnecessarily modernist-ish (if that makes sense.. I recall a building in Toronto built by van der Rohe, one of the greatest buildings, but he insisted they use his furniture, typeface, etc... ) at this scale it's possible but I think to impose it all across Europe; there are many different geographies and environments so I think the signs should be adapted to their locations.
That can still be possible. By using lights and just different icons in countries that have different circumstances but the principal signs should be the same everywhere. It's perfectly possible to use the same signs for falling rocks in Spain, Italy, Norway or Austria.




I think that street lights provide sufficient lumination for street signs. Anything else would be excessive.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_MSsZK83a-z8/R1KqHiNGFrI/AAAAAAAAEE0/8eJC4enDs_w/s720/029%20E4-E20%20%23164%20Trafikplats%20Norrtull.jpg

^ Look at the overhead signs.

This might work on motorways and on a smaller scale in small streets and on rural roads where the lighting is not sufficient.

On motorways and rural roads one should replace excessive lighting for cat's eyes anyways and only light the adjacent bike/pedestrian lane (if around),crossings, corners, on- and offramps and bridges. Only in the less temperate climate of Northern and Eastern Europe and in the mountains would more lighting be needed.

[Susi]

There should be a unified system in order to make sure that such unnecessary inconvenience (and possibly danger) can no longer take place.

It might not be so difficult, especially by borders as they are transfer points.



It should simply be the case for for instance the Netherlands and Belgium that mayor international high speed trains "dock" at mayor train stations as well. Even if the country is too small for real high speed rail it should still be connected. Look for instance the unique opportunities that Denmark and the countries in Central Europe offer as corridors for inter-European transportation.

High speed rail isn't necessarily safe in every context, location still has to be considered. Also you have to take into account that rail is also very expensive to lay properly.


That's definetely something that should be arranged because Europe is a lot smaller then Canada and hence should there be one unified price system.

Though the idea of having one postal system (i.e. Europost) is sort of abhorrent to my nationalistic tendencies, it would be the most efficient way to deal with the problem.



Then perhaps it should be made attractive. Dropping all taxes on green technology while keeping the taxes on the old technology intact and changing traffic to LHD would be a nice start.

I think it would be difficult to convince lawmakers to change to LHD everywhere, and besides they can build RHD electric cars, for example.



That's something that I always consider to be somewhat confusing. When you drive or be on a bike you have to take a decision in a split second and you simply cannot take that second of confusion when you are abroad.

I've cycled in three different countries (two European and Canada) and had no problems with signage. It looks a little diffferent but in general they follow the same pattern.


That can still be possible. By using lights and just different icons in countries that have different circumstances but the principal signs should be the same everywhere. It's perfectly possible to use the same signs for falling rocks in Spain, Italy, Norway or Austria.

True.




http://lh3.ggpht.com/_MSsZK83a-z8/R1KqHiNGFrI/AAAAAAAAEE0/8eJC4enDs_w/s720/029%20E4-E20%20%23164%20Trafikplats%20Norrtull.jpg

^ Look at the overhead signs.

This might work on motorways and on a smaller scale in small streets and on rural roads where the lighting is not sufficient.

On motorways and rural roads one should replace excessive lighting for cat's eyes anyways and only light the adjacent bike/pedestrian lane (if around),crossings, corners, on- and offramps and bridges. Only in the less temperate climate of Northern and Eastern Europe and in the mountains would more lighting be needed.

You make a good point, but I think it's better for smaller scales to have street lighting rather than signage lighting, it serves too purposes.

Further, lighting is important in "safety". People feel safer with light.

[The Lawspeaker]

It might not be so difficult, especially by borders as they are transfer points.
I actually think that the border control should take part on a separate platform in the station (if you want to leave the train at that border station). It should also be possible that when you travel from Amsterdam to Berlin you would get checked on Amsterdam Central Station and then when you leave your train in Berlin (like on an airport). There should be no direct border control on the border but at every station where the train stops it should be at a designated platform where the customs will check you and where needed help you on your way.




High speed rail isn't necessarily safe in every context, location still has to be considered. Also you have to take into account that rail is also very expensive to lay properly.
It can be done almost everywhere in Europe between the areas where the bulk of the population lifes so building one in let's say Lapland would be silly, costly and unsafe. But lines tunnelling the Alps, the Pyrenees or the Carpathians or under the North Sea or the Danish Straits should be possible but very expensive. It could become a good alternative to air travel though.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/High_Speed_Railroad_Map_Europe_2009.gif




Though the idea of having one postal system (i.e. Europost) is sort of abhorrent to my nationalistic tendencies, it would be the most efficient way to deal with the problem.
It doesn't have to be a "Europost" but one can set set tariffs for the private companies for all mail that is being send in Europe while leaving the parcel market and the mail that is being send outside Europe completely free of regulation.




I think it would be difficult to convince lawmakers to change to LHD everywhere, and besides they can build RHD electric cars, for example.
Then RHD could be the solution. But I doubt whether the Brits and the Irish would go along with it.




I've cycled in three different countries (two European and Canada) and had no problems with signage. It looks a little diffferent but in general they follow the same pattern.
I have been confused a couple of times when being abroad (I don't have a driving license but f.i cycling). The signage follows the same pattern but you need to be able to make a decision in a split second.




True.
As such that could provide a solution. The signage would have to be readible and easy to understand without clutter.





You make a good point, but I think it's better for smaller scales to have street lighting rather than signage lighting, it serves too purposes.
The problem with large parts of Europe is that it is overlighted. There is a whole lot of light pollution so extensive street lighting all over the place isn't really necessary. All you need in some cases (in more rural areas) is to have the signage lit and the road marked with cat's eyes and when you arrive in a more populated area a couple of street lights can take over.

http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/cats1.jpg





Further, lighting is important in "safety". People feel safer with light.
Well. Only have lighting in places where people live and along bike/ pedestrian lanes.
No one needs this:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7896/a2nacht2k.jpg

http://www.phoenix.vuurwerk.nl/fotos/lichthinder/nacht02.gif

[The Lawspeaker]

Some more ideas:

When it comes to travelling and the rights of travellers there are two things that should make inter-European travel easier. For instance there should be a pan-European policy on health insurance. We now have the EHIC-pass but you still have to ask for one independently and that policy should be changed in order to make sure that you get your EHIC when you get insured (if you are covered by private insurance) or are covered under your general healthcare plan. So one could make sure that the EHIC-pass and the medical insurance pass are actually the same thing in order to keep the manufacturing costs down.

The emergency telephone number at present (in most European countries) is 112 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_telephone_number#Europe). A lot of countries still use auxiliary emergency numbers in the case of a missing child or for suicide prevention (for instance there is a 16000 for missing children but this could be simplified along with the creation of a kind of Europe-wide AMBER Alert). For suicide prevention in the Southern Netherlands (a.k.a "Belgium") there is 106 ). It would be good for inter-European cooperation and personal safety if such services would be implemented Europe-wide.

For travellers in trouble (who use personal transport) there could be a European-wide phone number (for example 777) to the nearest roadside assistance as well. A switchboard will then dispatch the closest emergency service to come to your rescue and with the costs will be dealt later: first you need to able to get on with your travels.

[The Lawspeaker]

Some more ideas about a banknotes (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=269293&postcount=6), coins (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=308946&postcount=10) (maybe we could learn something from the British design) and political/economic reform (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=269254&postcount=5) and new passports (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=269322&postcount=7).

[The Lawspeaker]

Some more:

One of my major pet peeves: phone calls/ text messages within the Union (and let's include countries like Switzerland and Norway for all intents and purposes) are still too damn costly and I think that calling within the Union should be as expensive as calling within the same country. Phone calls and text messages are, with today's technology, actually ridiculously cheap and the current prices are therefore entirely artificial and it should be forced down as it is also incredibly bad for business as people (thus also business people) using the phone still receive some pretty hefty bills.

[joe blowe]

Please read:
"Power Hungry"
It is an excellent book that explains a lot about energy and power and how it works. Most important, what is feasible and what is not, what is viable and what is not.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Hungry-Myths-Energy-Future/dp/1586489534/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302663405&sr=8-1

[The Lawspeaker]

Please read:
"Power Hungry"
It is an excellent book that explains a lot about energy and power and how it works. Most important, what is feasible and what is not, what is viable and what is not.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Hungry-Myths-Energy-Future/dp/1586489534/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302663405&sr=8-1
This thread is about Europe and is for Europeans. Not about a cynical colonial trying to sell a book.

[Svanhild]

When it comes to traffic rules I would be favour of harmonizing traffic as well.
No. Don't - touch - German - Autobahn! :wink Truth be told, other countries can't handle our driving style on highways as they aren't used to no speed limit. And harmonizing traffic would imply to impose a general speed limit on our Autobahnen which I strongly oppose.

Hands off from any attempts for further centralization. EU needs to be disbanded and national sovereignity has to be restored. No compromises on this, sorry.

[joe blowe]

The idea of uniformity is similar to the 'One World Government'.
Liberty is the freedom to move from Germany to Switzerland or England if you don't like where you are.
A uniform set of rules for everything means you are stuck.
We are now stuck with a multitude of people that know very little about energy, how it is created, transported, and used - these people have been fed a whole meal of misconceptions of 'renewables' babble that can never work.
Those that are feeding the absurdities do not care if we know or not, as long as we follow along. We are about to see monumental changes in the world.
Let's educate ourselves. There is no sinister evil in that.

[Breedingvariety]

Joe Blowe,

Is peak oil real? If yes, have we reached it. If no, when are we going to reach it?

Can solar/wind/water/other? energy replace oil?

Is cold fusion real?

Is official story of 9/11 fundamentally true?

[The Lawspeaker]

No. Don't - touch - German - Autobahn! :wink Truth be told, other countries can't handle our driving style on highways as they aren't used to no speed limit. And harmonizing traffic would imply to impose a general speed limit on our Autobahnen which I strongly oppose.

Hands off from any attempts for further centralization. EU needs to be disbanded and national sovereignity has to be restored. No compromises on this, sorry.
You seem to forget that European countries are very small and the U.S and China (our two main adversaries - and let's not forget about Islam) rather big. I rather have a confederal European government (American style but with a human, social face and a strict adherence to the ideas of a constitutional republic with states' rights --- very much unlike the present-day EU) then being overrun because we are divided.

When it comes to the Autobahn.. I would actually be more in favour of using the Autobahn as the template (say "auf wiedersehn" to speed limits except in build-up areas and during the dreaded stau). It's just that some traffic rules will have to be harmonised and we might just as well show that we are different from the Americans in a nice gesture of defiance (that also is a compromise with the British and the Irish that have given up so much of their own culture already): we switch to left-hand traffic.

[joe blowe]

Joe Blowe,

Is peak oil real? If yes, have we reached it. If no, when are we going to reach it?

Can solar/wind/water/other? energy replace oil?

Is cold fusion real?

Is official story of 9/11 fundamentally true?

I do not believe we have achieved peak oil. New technologies, thanks to the marvelous creativity and ingenuity of the human mind will continue to come up with new finds. Just the 'Horizontal Drilling' technology has revived many old oil and gas fields (easy to understand why, with the 'hole' following the layers of oil or gas...). I live in Alberta, Canada, home of one of the largest reserves of oil in our oilsands deposits. Greater than the middle east. The shale in the US reserves are also enourmous.
I am just finishing reading the book 'Power Grab', by Chris Horner. (BTW, I am a mechanical engineer, have my own engineering company with 16 engineers working for me in design - I am NOT in the book business, although I do give away a great number of books every year to my clients)
The the book talks about the volumetric proportion of the earth's crust that has been explored so far, it is indeed very small.
Also, the peak oil thing has been going on since I finished my first degree in engineering in 1974...(getting old). And so was 'Global Cooling' back then. There seems to be an agenda behind the fearmongering though....

No, the so called renewables are not feasible at this point of their development to replace oil in any way. Keep in mind that oil is part of transportation, fertilizers (without it we cannot feed the planet), and not just 'recreation'.
Water, as in hydropower is a viable and excellent provider of electric power. The same applies to Nuclear Energy - once the dust settles with the Japanese Power Plant Incident, we will be able to assess the real risks against benefits of the technology.
Any industrial facility needs reliable power supply, 24/7, while a 'blip' in the lights in your home is just a blip, it can mess up a process plant to the point of taking months to clean up. ( I was a plant engineer for 10 years at Petrochemical Plants)
I have not seen so far any evidence of cold fusion as a feasible process for energy creation - it is not my area of expertise. I know about power and energy and engines (motorcycles is my hobby), big turbines, and efficiencies, etc.
I tend to believe the 9/11 story for the simple fact that if it had been a cover up, the magnitude of the effort would be astounding, and fragile too.
But I do not agree with labeling people that do not believe as 'kooks', 'truthers' or in the case of Obama's birth 'birthers'. We should all be free to have our opinions. I do keep an open mind, should new evidence pop up somewhere.

The major problems I had with this particular discussion is that it proposes uniformity, which is againt 'Liberty' as I mentioned in my earlier post, it is also against the economics of efficiency - Germany is good at producing some things economically, the Netherlands at producing other things - the system should take advantage of these local efficiencies. (Transportation costs considered, etc) Some types of roads are better suited for mountainous regions others are not. Bycicles are a year round feasible mean of transportation in Holland - unthinkable in Canada.
I have been to Holland, a very very beautiful place indeed.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Some more:

One of my major pet peeves: phone calls/ text messages within the Union (and let's include countries like Switzerland and Norway for all intents and purposes) are still too damn costly and I think that calling within the Union should be as expensive as calling within the same country. Phone calls and text messages are, with today's technology, actually ridiculously cheap and the current prices are therefore entirely artificial and it should be forced down as it is also incredibly bad for business as people (thus also business people) using the phone still receive some pretty hefty bills.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a "nationwide" calling plan established.

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a "nationwide" calling plan established.
Well.. there seem to have been some "calls" on curtailing the high prices but nothing substantial has yet been achieved.

[The Lawspeaker]

Frankly... I understand that border control will be needed until Europe's Europeanness has been restored and we have dealt with crime and mass-immigration. However I consider it to be nothing less then a temporal, necessary evil that should be abandoned ( and thus a return to Schengen) at the earliest opportunity.

Why am I in favour of abandoning border controls within Europe (while creating a Fortress Europe) when the time is there again ? We are all citizens of the same Union (look at your passports) and while the Union at this moment is a faulty program that should be abandoned, the idea of European togetherness should be preserved and since we are citizens of Europe there should be free, unrestricted travel for free citizens. Which is what we ought to be and besides, a lot of European countries are not much bigger then post stamps (particularly from a foreign perspective).

I also have, within reason, no problem with people working (and moving) all over the Union (and some associated countries like the micro-states like Liechtenstein or Monaco, Iceland, Norway or Switzerland) if at least they would get local wages and receive the same treatment as their local peers. Of course.. this should not yet be extended to the poorer countries in Eastern Europe less we would get flooded but if they would get rid of poverty (and err.. you know who I mean ;) ) then when time passes the same benefits should be extended to them too.

[The Lawspeaker]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Interchange_near_Frankfurt_airport_as_seen_from_an _aircraft.JPG

We currently have the International E-road network (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_E-road_network) which has served it's time well since 1950. But it is time for change, the E-road network can consist out of trunkroads, full-fledged motorways or sometimes even small side-roads. While mobility in Europe (especially automobiliteit as we would call it in Dutch, people using the car) has grown exponentially it is time for a very big solution.

What I propose is this: there should be new stretches of motorway (as combined with for instance existing high-speed rail links and existing motorways) be build that link all mayor cities in Europe together. Since those new motorways should not receive as many slip roads as the already existing motorways (only at mayor cities) is it possible to drop speed regulations (German style) and implement the "keep your lane"- system (which is American) making faster and fore efficient travel possible. So what should these motorways, these Interstates look like ? Well.. they may not too be too dissimilar from the already existing wired (and thus adaptable and unfortunately expensive) Autobahn but in most cases they as straight as a ruler.

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/97/62/976213_47aba671.jpg

There should also be service stations around every 50 to 100 kilometres (that number can be reduced in remote areas) that would house a restaurant, a petrol station, a motel, shops, internet cafe, an information help desk, a place to freshen up maybe even a meditation room/ chapel. In order to avoid trouble when leaving the Interstate one could separate lanes for traffic that will take the oncoming sliproads, traffic that just enters the Interstate and traffic is just driving through so those entering or leaving have a chance to slow down. And you can only enter and leave them at mayor cities or when crossing another Interstate and they should be linked to other motorways first so when you leave the Interstate you will first find yourself on an other motorway (a belt way) and then you can reach your destination. The Interstate is merely the fast link between such big cities and not the actual motorway.

When it comes to Britain and Ireland: there should only be two Interstates, one leaving from Dover to London (exits should be available for the area around Birmingham and Manchester) to Edinburgh and another one from London to Wales and (since there is no bridge or tunnel available to the ferry) Dublin.

Of course driving on them should not be for free:when you enter the Interstate you would need a vignette or pay a toll. There will be no toll stations on the actual Interstate.

Why did I pick the name Interstate (while it's American) - well the name is ambiguous: it can either denote the road connection the European states (as in EU-member-states) or European countries.

And.. while we are at it: we can then de-commission the E-road network. Because we would have a new system.

[The Lawspeaker]

Some additions to the plans regarding the Interstates. One could also build in tollbooths in the service stations and allow people to leave the Interstate particularly when the area behind it is a national park or has some other form of recreational, cultural use. Another big plan would be too designate an orbital motorway around the Randstad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad) (the main conurbation in the Netherlands with cities like Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam and Utrecht) and integrate the already existing motorways (as free "local stretches" where nothing will actually change) into a new Orbital Randstad that will encircle the entire conurbation combined with a regular (both high-speed and light rail) train service that will provide quick transportation around the entire area.

Other such orbitals could for instance be planned around the Rhine-Main, Rhine-Neckar and Rhine-Ruhr- conurbations in Germany and the Vlaamse Ruit in what is now the Southern Netherlands a.k.a Belgium.

Of course.. while the Interstates will be generally straight (in order to achieve higher speeds) in some more densely populated or environmentally vulnerable areas they will put in tunnels in order to protect local quality of life or the local environment.

[Agrippa]

I'm not against every form of an European Union, I'm against this Liberalcapitalist-Cultural Marxist construct, the content and actors in THIS PARTICULAR, in fact Plutocratic "European Union", which is mostly a freak which crept out of the worst nightmares of Coudenhove-Kalergi.

Otherwise, I'm all for going together into a brighter future for the European people, especially in those fields, where it is beneficial for all participants - Europe and the single European nations are just too weak if being at odds with each other in the context of the modern world.

Many things will be done together, successfully, or Europeans as a whole will just fail.

[Hess]

I'm not against every form of an European Union, I'm against this Liberalcapitalist-Cultural Marxist construct, the content and actors in THIS PARTICULAR, in fact Plutocratic "European Union", which is mostly a freak which crept out of the worst nightmares of Coudenhove-Kalergi.

Otherwise, I'm all for going together into a brighter future for the European people, especially in those fields, where it is beneficial for all participants - Europe and the single European nations are just too weak if being at odds with each other in the context of the modern world.

Many things will be done together, successfully, or Europeans as a whole will just fail.

This is exactly what I've been screaming about ever since I got on this forum. It's a shame that some people engage in petty north vs. south squabbles and other nonsense rather than look for real solutions to real problems (and god knows we got plenty of them).

[Albion]

The majority of us is very much anti-EU but do you think that some things should be arranged communally by European countries in order to straighten the path for further economic integration, commercial expansion and to overcome hurdles for traffic and travel ?

Yes, Europe shares a lot of standards already that in turn have been adopted by most of the rest of the world because of the influence on standards pan-European conventions can make (and because often our standards are better than following the crappy American ones - take NTSC and PAL (http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/articles/palvsntsc/palvsntsc.asp) - PAL is obviously miles better, NTSC is all blurry and not as vivid or sharp a picture as PAL).


household plugs

Agreed! Up until the 1970s I've heard many electronics in Britain came without a plug and you had to wire a British one on yourself.
We have so many other Pan-European standards and yet we stick to a range of different crappy plug and socket designs.
There is a generic Europlug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug) that'll work in a lot of countries (not Britain) but we should develop a Pan-European standard.
European standards have already crept into British wiring in houses, the colours of the wires have changed and older wires when worked on (if not replaced) have a European coloured tab put on them to symbolize what colour they should actually be.
The change would have to be gradual. All new electrical equipment would have to have the common plug, all new electrical installations the new sockets and converter plugs could be sold with new electrical appliances (both types - a plug from the new norm to a British socket for older houses and a plug from the new standard to a British socket for older electrical equipment)


And where possible unified voltage and a unified gauge (not applicable in the mountains of course..). It would also be a good idea to electrify all of Europe's transport system.

Agree.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Rail_gauge_world.png

Most countries in Europe use the same gauge except Eastern Europe (I saw a program once where a bloke was on a train from Poland to Germany. The train stopped for half an hour and was lifted off the tracks as the changed the train to fit onto the Ukrainian tracks!)
Iberia, Finland, Ireland, NI and the former USSR need to switch to the European standard (well not so much former USSR, but all EU countries should at least). National governments would have to foot the bill.
The railway in the Isle of Man and a few of the other one's dotted about are mountain railways and don't join the main lines so are fine.

According to Wikipedia:


Further standardisation of rail gauges seems likely, as individual countries seek to build inter-operable national networks, and international organisations seek to build macro-regional and continental networks. National projects include the Australian and Indian efforts mentioned above to create a uniform gauge in their national networks. The European Union has set out to develop inter-operable freight and passenger rail networks across the EU area, and is seeking to standardise track gauge, signalling and electrical power systems. EU funds have been dedicated to convert key railway lines in the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia from 1520 mm gauge to standard gauge, and to assist Spain and Portugal in the construction of high-speed rail lines to connect Iberian cities to one another and to the French high-speed lines. The EU has developed plans for improved freight rail links between Spain, Portugal, and the rest of Europe.


It should be made to such an extend that exactly the same font, colours and shapes are being used.

Agree. All signs should be the same, the amount of Eastern Euro drivers who get confused on our roads is amazing.
I once saw a Bulgarian lorry way out in the hills going along a really steep, dangerous, windy and totally unsuitable road where lots of people have died.
The road then passes through a very tightly packed village at the top of the moor with very narrow roads, cars parked all over the place and very few passing places. That place is hard to drive through in a small car and he was struggling like mad to get the lorry through, sadly there's no quick way out.


Though the idea of having one postal system (i.e. Europost) is sort of abhorrent to my nationalistic tendencies, it would be the most efficient way to deal with the problem.

Ah, but it could have a different façade in each country, so "Euromail" would be Royal Mail or "British Mail" in Britain.
It doesn't have to be one company but instead one set of standards imposed on companies.


Then RHD could be the solution. But I doubt whether the Brits and the Irish would go along with it.

It'd be easier than switching the rest of Europe to LHD.


The problem with large parts of Europe is that it is overlighted. There is a whole lot of light pollution so extensive street lighting all over the place isn't really necessary. All you need in some cases (in more rural areas) is to have the signage lit and the road marked with cat's eyes and when you arrive in a more populated area a couple of street lights can take over.

Agreed! The street signs around here emit a horrible orange glow.


One of my major pet peeves: phone calls/ text messages within the Union (and let's include countries like Switzerland and Norway for all intents and purposes) are still too damn costly and I think that calling within the Union should be as expensive as calling within the same country. Phone calls and text messages are, with today's technology, actually ridiculously cheap and the current prices are therefore entirely artificial and it should be forced down as it is also incredibly bad for business as people (thus also business people) using the phone still receive some pretty hefty bills.

Agree. The EU is regulating it a bit better now by making the charges cheaper.


drop speed regulations (German style) and implement the "keep your lane"- system (which is American) making faster and fore efficient travel possible.

Yeah, the German model is best.


When it comes to Britain and Ireland: there should only be two Interstates, one leaving from Dover to London (exits should be available for the area around Birmingham and Manchester) to Edinburgh and another one from London to Wales and (since there is no bridge or tunnel available to the ferry) Dublin.

I disagree. The UK needs good road links. There should be a North / South interstate from Aberdeen, through Glasgow and Edinburgh, down to Newcastle and then onto Leeds, Manchester then to Birmingham, London and Finally to Dover (with "shortcut" stretches along parts to cut out the diversions such as a diversion from Glasgow straight to Leeds").
There should also be a East / West in a route from London to Britsol to Cardiff and then the ring back to Birmingham where it joins the North / South route.

Ireland is an island with the only important centre being the City of Dublin, the incentives to build a interstate from the North / South route in Scotland to a country on the periphery of Europe are few.
A interstate between Dublin and Belfast would be a good idea though.


Of course driving on them should not be for free:when you enter the Interstate you would need a vignette or pay a toll. There will be no toll stations on the actual Interstate.

Um, yes they should. We're not going to go back to bloody turnpikes. Routes to travel to and from a destination should be a basic right.
In Britain people partook in the Kinder Scout mass trespass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder_Scout_mass_trespass) not far from here in order to get official recognition of the basic right to be free to work along a common, public route uninhibited.

Tolls are the worst thing you can do. Going to Wales from Bristol you have to cross the toll Severn Bridge. The Welsh hate the toll, if you don't pay it you have to go the long way - through Gloucester, the Forest of Dean and bloody Monmouthshire!!!! :eek:


I'm not against every form of an European Union, I'm against this Liberalcapitalist-Cultural Marxist construct, the content and actors in THIS PARTICULAR, in fact Plutocratic "European Union", which is mostly a freak which crept out of the worst nightmares of Coudenhove-Kalergi.

Otherwise, I'm all for going together into a brighter future for the European people, especially in those fields, where it is beneficial for all participants - Europe and the single European nations are just too weak if being at odds with each other in the context of the modern world.

Many things will be done together, successfully, or Europeans as a whole will just fail.


This is exactly what I've been screaming about ever since I got on this forum. It's a shame that some people engage in petty north vs. south squabbles and other nonsense rather than look for real solutions to real problems (and god knows we got plenty of them).

Same here, but my argument is that Europe can co-operate and work without the EU but with a looser, less over-powering organisation or through simple treaties.