Do Northern Italians look more like Southern Germans or like Southern Italians?

[Sikeliot]

To me, the answer is obvious; they have too much Atlantid and Nordid influence to pass in southern Italy collectively, and they look much more like southern Germans. But not everyone agrees with this.

[Visage pâle]

Look Michel Platini, north italian, he's much closer to sicilian than to bavarians, even in southern France he's atypical.

[pelikarski]

They have more Atlanto-Med and Dinarid and less Nordid influence than Southern Germans, but types like Armenoid, South Med, Berids are not existing in Northern Italy

[Dombra]

Pure N. Italians of Alpine Facade stock are closer to south Germans

[Sikeliot]

They have more Atlanto-Med and Dinarid and less Nordid influence than Southern Germans, but types like Armenoid, South Med, Berids are not existing in Northern Italy

I think this makes the difference. I think it is more likely to take a group of northern Italians and think they are a comparable group of southern Germans. The reason the line is now blurred is due to how many southern Italians have moved north.

[Brasileiro]

This is a typical Northern Italian face:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?179578-Is-Roberto-Requi%E3o-the-perfect-example-of-Alpine-type

SudTirol, Friuli, Trentino are pretty much of Southern Germany/Austria same as Veneto... Lombardy are mixed now I believe.

[Sikeliot]

I don't understand how people think northern Italians look anything like Sicilians. They barely look Mediterranean at all! And they look just like their northern neighbors. I think you are all used to seeing southerners who moved up north and mistake them for northern Italians. But even genetically, northern Italians are as close to Brits as they are to southern Italians, so obviously they are close to southern Germans.

Where have you ever seen native northerners looking like this?

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/11059742_1033265466706083_3493695453310941160_o.jp g

[Ibericus]

Souther Italians.

[Visage pâle]

I don't understand how people think northern Italians look anything like Sicilians. They barely look Mediterranean at all! And they look just like their northern neighbors. I think you are all used to seeing southerners who moved up north and mistake them for northern Italians. But even genetically, northern Italians are as close to Brits as they are to southern Italians, so obviously they are close to southern Germans.

Where have you ever seen native northerners looking like this?

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/11059742_1033265466706083_3493695453310941160_o.jp g

50% of northern italian have brown skin. Coon.

[Sikeliot]

50% of northern italian have brown skin. Coon.

You are going by coloring, I am going by features. Northern Italians, facially, look much more Western/Central European even if they are dark.

[Visage pâle]

You are going by coloring, I am going by features. Northern Italians, facially, look much more Western/Central European even if they are dark.

They have big nose and broad head like many southern italians, there are many alpines and dinarics in southern italy.

[Sikeliot]

They have big nose, and broad head like many southern italians, there are many alpines and dinarics in southern italy.

They have too much Nordid and Atlantid though.

I think all types in northern Italy can be found in southern Italy even if at a lower rate, but many types in southern Italy (Berid, Armenoid, etc) cannot be found in the north.

[Visage pâle]

IMO Platini is a bit armenoid.

[Odin]

Southern Italians.

[Cristiano viejo]

North Italians and South Italians are the same people, this thread makes no sense.

[MysteriousWays]

Intermediate, but I think southern Italy is a better fit, on average.

[MinervaItalica]

The second option has no sense. Sicilians are Southern Italians. Obviously Italians (from every regions) are closer each other before everything else.

[Kouros]

Southern Italians. Worth mentioning that a significant portion of N. Italy does look closer to southern Germans though, not the majority but still a lot.

[Enr1989]

Look Michel Platini, north italian, he's much closer to sicilian than to bavarians, even in southern France he's atypical.

He is typical French in actually
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Platini

[Sizzo]

North Italians and South Italians are the same people, this thread makes no sense.

We are not the same people but, as a whole, we are for sure closer to S. Italians than S. Germans.

[Columella]

the cultural relationship is too strong.
While an Italian and an Austrian or Bavarian can be easily distinguished, by a haircut or clothes, this would be very hard between Northern and southern Italians.

Obviosuly there are local looks, and northern Italians tend to be taller and lighter than southerners on average (but this doesn’t mean that all North Italians are tall and light. I know legions of short, dark N Italians and I know a few blonde tall southerners).

[Mingle]

Why do you say Southern Italian and Sicilians? Sicilians are Southern Italians.

Anyways, I chose the second option. There are the Alps separating Southern Germans from Northern Italians and thus less migration happens in that region.

[Kouros]

He is typical French in actually
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Platini

Hahahaha. To me he looks pan-Italian, especially as a youngling.

[crazyladybutterfly]

To me, the answer is obvious; they have too much Atlantid and Nordid influence to pass in southern Italy collectively, and they look much more like southern Germans. But not everyone agrees with this.

it really depends

ladini are identitical to south germans

http://www.minoranzelinguistiche.provincia.tn.it/binary/pat_minoranze_2011/minoranze/TN%20FAMIGLIA%20LADINA.1143462138.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNq4Tb8gWjkFVPhNhLaDIl42s1gVuHM C93y9Mp9bij7ymTIIbJiw

people from emilia look more like south italians

http://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/ravenna/cronaca/2012/06/15/729482/images/1316691-w.JPG

https://immagini.quotidiano.net/?url=http://p1014p.quotidiano.net:80/polopoly_fs/1.405280.1416059670!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/wide_680/image.jpg&h=350&w=606

http://bdsitalia.org/images/stories/640/bac/ravenna-presidio3.jpg

http://www.rovigooggi.it/files/2015/01/bancari-assemblea-sciopero-01-2.jpg

south germans...

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/D6GPAX/nokia-siemens-networks-nsn-employees-protest-against-teh-closure-of-D6GPAX.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Karstor_Munich_Protest_ACTA.JPG

[crazyladybutterfly]

They have too much Nordid and Atlantid though.

I think all types in northern Italy can be found in southern Italy even if at a lower rate, but many types in southern Italy (Berid, Armenoid, etc) cannot be found in the north.

you re right the northern you go the harder to pass and viceversa...

[MinervaItalica]

it really depends

ladini are identitical to south germans

http://www.minoranzelinguistiche.provincia.tn.it/binary/pat_minoranze_2011/minoranze/TN%20FAMIGLIA%20LADINA.1143462138.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNq4Tb8gWjkFVPhNhLaDIl42s1gVuHM C93y9Mp9bij7ymTIIbJiw

people from emilia look more like south italians

http://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/ravenna/cronaca/2012/06/15/729482/images/1316691-w.JPG

https://immagini.quotidiano.net/?url=http://p1014p.quotidiano.net:80/polopoly_fs/1.405280.1416059670!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/wide_680/image.jpg&h=350&w=606

http://bdsitalia.org/images/stories/640/bac/ravenna-presidio3.jpg

http://www.rovigooggi.it/files/2015/01/bancari-assemblea-sciopero-01-2.jpg

south germans...

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/D6GPAX/nokia-siemens-networks-nsn-employees-protest-against-teh-closure-of-D6GPAX.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Karstor_Munich_Protest_ACTA.JPG

Complimenti per il cherrypicking...
Meriti una medaglia.

[crazyladybutterfly]

Complimenti per il cherrypicking...
Meriti una medaglia.

ho preso foto a caso lol

[MinervaItalica]

Odin could have avoided to bump such a dumb thread...

[aherne]

North Italians and South Italians are the same people, this thread makes no sense.

Exactly. Quite a homogeneous ethnic group, even... There are some in N Italy that would look odd in S Italy, but most look obviously Italian. But even in Ticino (Switzerland), they are still a lot closer to Sicilians than Germans nearby:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4062/4547196575_268ba916fc_b.jpg
https://d38qhnaxaqknw0.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Mondial-du-Merlot3-348x217.jpg

[Voskos]

judging from the people I saw when I visited Northeast Italy, I'd say South Italians.

[Sizzo]

Exactly. Quite a homogeneous ethnic group, even... There are some in N Italy that would look odd in S Italy, but most look obviously Italian. But even in Ticino (Switzerland), they are still a lot closer to Sicilians than Germans nearby:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4062/4547196575_268ba916fc_b.jpg
https://d38qhnaxaqknw0.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Mondial-du-Merlot3-348x217.jpg

Quite homogeneous? Where? Italy is probably the most heterogeneous country in Europe. This doesn't mean that North Italy is Southern Germany and South Italy northern Morocco or western Lebanon, obviously. Even physically N. Italy is different from the South (and from Germany, ofc) because the main elements are Alpinid, Dinarid and Atlanto-Med. while in the southern half of Italy there's a very strong W. Med./E. Med/Berid profile, with also a weak Levantine influence, especially in the deep south.

[Mingle]

Interesting how this says that folk from Northern Italy are autosomally closer to those from Austria, Switzerland, and Southern Germany than to those from Southern Italy (though the difference isn't much): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Europe#Autosomal_genetic_distan ces_.28Fst.29_based_on_SNPs_.282009.29

[Token]

Not even Northern Italy is homogeneous, lumping them all together is misleading. By the way, in a genetic point of view, Northwestern Italians, using Lombards as a proxy, are closer to South Italians than to South Germans, even if they are almost in-between both populations.

https://i.imgur.com/F5fndHA.png

On the other hand, using Venetians as a proxy, Northeastern Italians are significantly closer to Germans (even North Germans) than to their southern counterparts.

https://i.imgur.com/zEJDvAg.png

This divergence can be attributed to the higher level of Yamnaya-like Steppe ancestry and lower level of Neolithic influence in Northern Italians (In a Eastern>Western gradient).

[MagnusAurelius]

http://archhades.blogspot.ca/2011/06/northern-italians-are-biologically.html Tuscans, the core of Etruscan Civilization closer to Southern Italians.

German occupation of Italy has always been exaggerated.

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-S21.gif


My exact Haplogroup Subtype is rare in Southern Italy, it either comes from Phoenician expansion or Sea people invaders.

[Sikeliot]

Exactly. Quite a homogeneous ethnic group, even... There are some in N Italy that would look odd in S Italy, but most look obviously Italian. But even in Ticino (Switzerland), they are still a lot closer to Sicilians than Germans nearby:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4062/4547196575_268ba916fc_b.jpg
https://d38qhnaxaqknw0.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Mondial-du-Merlot3-348x217.jpg


The little boy in the first photo and the man behind him look fully West Asian... they do not look typically North Italian.

[Mingle]

The little boy in the first photo and the man behind him look fully West Asian... they do not look typically North Italian.

The boy doesn't. Maybe the man behind him a little, but West Asian wouldn't be my first guess for him either. He just seems to be tanned.

[Sikeliot]

The boy doesn't. Maybe the man behind him a little, but West Asian wouldn't be my first guess for him either. He just seems to be tanned.

They look like Assyrians or some Jewish groups (and not necessarily Ashkenazim).

[Longobarda]

IMO Platini is a bit armenoid.

IMO Platini's parents were born in Piemonte but the origin of the surname is in Marche region (central Italy). By the way, in all Italy only exist 168 families with that surname. Very few indeed, which may thing they were not italians in ancient times.

And if you base your opinion on only 1 person....... sorry but we have also a guy called Giovanni TRAPATTONI from Lombardy. Shall we judge the northern italian physiognomy on Trapattoni only?

http://static.goal.com/39000/39011_heroa.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nZ6-BK02pyE/Rg05CDg3YHI/AAAAAAAAAII/mlOd7GhNXuA/s400/TRAPATTONI.jpg
http://milanlegends.com/wp-content/uploads/Giovanni_Trappatoni.jpg

https://www.tz.de/bilder/2015/08/03/5315284/1908815174-giovanni-trapattoni-2vI6QigbR7a7.jpg

[Dandelion]

people from emilia look more like south italians

http://www.ilrestodelcarlino.it/ravenna/cronaca/2012/06/15/729482/images/1316691-w.JPG


That's a weird message. What are they? Nudism activists? But then they say 'unemployed and in underwear is shameful'

[JMack]

NW Italians look more like Southern Italians and other Mediterranean populations (Iberians, Greeks) and NE Italians look more like all kinds of Germans.

[Sikeliot]

NW Italians look more like Southern Italians and other Mediterranean populations (Iberians, Greeks) and NE Italians look more like all kinds of Germans.

I think that Lombards and those east of them look more like Germans, while NW Italy and southward look closer to southern French. Whether they are closer to southern Italians and Greeks or to Germans, I cannot say.

[Bobby Martnen]

Northern Italians (i.e. ethnic Italians from north Italy) look more like Southern Italians than Germans.

South Tyroleans are ethnically German/Austrian, not Italian, and thus look more like their fellow Germans/Austrians.

[JMack]

I think that Lombards and those east of them look more like Germans, while NW Italy and southward look closer to southern French. Whether they are closer to southern Italians and Greeks or to Germans, I cannot say.

Lombards are in between Venetians and Ligurians. The first look like Germanic people and the second like Mediterranean peoples like South Italians and Iberians. Southern French aren't that similar to NW Italians IMO. But some overlap certainly exists.

[Bagot]

Exactly. Quite a homogeneous ethnic group, even... There are some in N Italy that would look odd in S Italy, but most look obviously Italian. But even in Ticino (Switzerland), they are still a lot closer to Sicilians than Germans nearby:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4062/4547196575_268ba916fc_b.jpg
https://d38qhnaxaqknw0.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Mondial-du-Merlot3-348x217.jpg

You're a quite typical Romanian troll. In those pics there are also people who are not fully European. Only very few are native. Daniel Mkongo is half African, others are mixed.

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4547196425_3389f33580_b.jpg

Daniel Mkongo

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4547196007_89c170386c_b.jpg


I can do the same with Romanians. These are average Romanians.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprodmigration%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F7179 d870-546d-3238-b009-89d64c7c9b8c.jpg?crop=780%2C520%2C0%2C0&resize=685


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02432/cable-thieves_2432486b.jpg

https://www.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/hero_mobile/public/thumbnails/image/2012/01/03/09/Romanians_415.jpg

[Longobarda]

Why do you say Southern Italian and Sicilians? Sicilians are Southern Italians.

Anyways, I chose the second option. There are the Alps separating Southern Germans from Northern Italians and thus less migration happens in that region.

Do you think that the Alps separating Germany from Italy did matter when we had invasions from the North by german tribes like ostrogoths, visigoths, longobards or franks? Even in neolithic times we used to cross the Alps without problems. Do you remember Otzi the ice-man found on top of the Alps between Italy and Austria?

[alnortedelsur]

I voted for southern Italians, not to troll Northern Italians, but because I think all Italians share some common Italian vibe, and southern Italians are not that exotic and swarthy as many people think.

[Sizzo]

Do you think that the Alps separating Germany from Italy did matter when we had invasions from the North by german tribes like ostrogoths, visigoths, longobards or franks? Even in neolithic times we used to cross the Alps without problems. Do you remember Otzi the ice-man found on top of the Alps between Italy and Austria?

Well, the Alps were for sure an ethnical and genetic barrier; there's a sharp border between generic North Italy and Germanic world (unless we consider some extreme NE Italians, maybe mixed, during the centuries, with recent German settlers). Going with the plots NW Italians seems almost intermediate between S. Germany and S. Italy, whereas NE Italy seems closer to the former than to the latter. But I think it depends from which parts of Venetia we consider here: I don't think that Verona, Rovigo, Venice, Padoa, Treviso and the southern terrritories of Friul-Julian march (the lagoon areas) are more similar to Austria-S. Germany than to S. Italy.

[Bagot]

The Swiss Federal Council (2014-2015), it includes Swiss-Germans, Swiss-French and Swiss-Italians

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Bundesrat_der_Schweiz_2014.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Bundesrat_der_Schweiz_2015.jpg


These are the two Swiss Italian politicians in the Federal council

https://www.sp-ps.ch/sites/default/files/person/ml_brso_7125x5344.jpg

https://f2.blick.ch/img/news/origs3921817/7822538984-w1280-h960/Bundeskanzlerin-Corina-Casanova-tritt-per-Ende-Jahr-zurueck.jpg

[Lavrentis]

To me, most light North Italians still give an Italian vibe rathern than a German one. So I'd say that on average they have the same pigmentation and hair/eye color with South Germans, but at the same time they still have facial features similar to other Italians.

[Bagot]

To me, most light North Italians still give an Italian vibe rathern than a German one. So I'd say that on average they have the same pigmentation and hair/eye color with South Germans, but at the same time they still have facial features similar to other Italians.

For the same reasons most Iberians (both Portuguese and Spanish) cannot pass in France, most Romanians cannot pass in Hungary and most Greeks cannot pass north of Greece.

[Mingle]

Do you think that the Alps separating Germany from Italy did matter when we had invasions from the North by german tribes like ostrogoths, visigoths, longobards or franks? Even in neolithic times we used to cross the Alps without problems. Do you remember Otzi the ice-man found on top of the Alps between Italy and Austria?

I didn't say it was impossible to cross the Alps but it would be harder to cross the Alps than it would be to cross over from North Italy to South Italy.

[Tommie]

You're a quite typical Romanian troll. In those pics there are also people who are not fully European. Only very few are native. Daniel Mkongo is half African, others are mixed.

I can do the same with Romanians. These are average Romanians.
His ethnicity shouldn't be relevant, there are many trolls of various ethnicities who troll Italians, not just Romanians. I dare to say I have not even seen that many Romanian trolls around like you probably did, it's actually the Romanians that get trolled around. :rolleyes:


Based on what I've seen in Northern Italy (not counting ethnic minorities like Germans and Slovenes), I'd say they look like somewhere in between, but leaning more towards Southern Italians.

[Tooting Carmen]

If the question were Southern French vs Southern Italians, then that'd be more debatable, but in answer to the OP I'd definitely say Southern Italians.

[Tauromachos]

Northern Italians (i.e. ethnic Italians from north Italy) look more like Southern Italians than Germans.

South Tyroleans are ethnically German/Austrian, not Italian, and thus look more like their fellow Germans/Austrians.

This^
also from my own experience with Italian people:thumb001:

[Longobarda]

Some examples taken randomly:

Volley team under 16. Ozzano (Bologna), Emilia Romagna

http://www.pallavoloozzano.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/DSCF0100.jpg

Volley team under 16 . Sanremo, Liguria

http://www.sanremonews.it/typo3temp/pics/c_634e62a972.jpg

Volley team under 16. Alba, Piemonte (North west Italy)

http://www.campioni.cn/fileadmin/archivio/campioni/immagini/LALBA_VOLLEY_U13_VINCE_IL_SUMMER_VOLLEY_DI_ACQUI_b is.jpg

Volley team under 16 Lagaris, Trentino (North east Italy)

https://slyvi-tstorage.s3.amazonaws.com/l0_tml586986534657_386493863125_1507762875828480.j pg

Volley team under 16 NATIONAL TEAM (including african naturalized)

http://news.superscommesse.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Volley-Campionesse-dEuropa-u16.jpg

[Smeagol]

South Italians of course.

[Sikeliot]

We should note that all Italians -- north to south -- have higher Caucasian input than do any Germans.

[Longobarda]

I didn't say it was impossible to cross the Alps but it would be harder to cross the Alps than it would be to cross over from North Italy to South Italy.

I hope you know the italian geography. To go from the northern Italy to Palermo there are 2.000 kms. Moreover if you have not to cross the Alps you have to cross the Appenine chain which runs all along the italian peninsula. They did not have cars or even bycicles, they had to walk or, in roman times, by horse. And without streets (BEFORE THE ROMANS)

[alnortedelsur]

I hope you know the italian geography. To go from the northern Italy to Palermo there are 2.000 kms. Moreover if you have not to cross the Alps you have to cross the Appenine chain which runs all along the italian peninsula. They did not have cars or even bycicles, they had to walk or, in roman times, by horse. And without streets (BEFORE THE ROMANS)

Why do you want to be more related with Germans than to south Italians? Stop being so Nazi and racist :rolleyes:

[Mingle]

I hope you know the italian geography. To go from the northern Italy to Palermo there are 2.000 kms. Moreover if you have not to cross the Alps you have to cross the Appenine chain which runs all along the italian peninsula. They did not have cars or even bycicles, they had to walk or, in roman times, by horse. And without streets (BEFORE THE ROMANS)

The Apennine Mountains are much much smaller than the Alps, both in size and quantity. Plus, the eastern coast of Italy is not mountainous at all. Passing through it would be easier than going through the Alps.

[Longobarda]

Stop wanting to be more related with Germans than to south Italians. You're being such a Nazi and racist :rolleyes:

WHY? because i want to say the TRUTH??? These are photographs taken from the web which SHOW WITHOUT ANY POSSIBILITY YOU TO DENY WHAT THE REALITY IS!!!! IMBECILLE IBERICA.
WHY DID YOU NOT COMMENT THE PHOTOS OF IBERIANS THAT SHOWED HOW MEDITERRANEAN YOU ARE???? THE TRUE NAZIES ARE YOU THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO PASS NORDICIST WHEN YOU ARE JUST BERID AND MED AND TRY TO CHEAT PEOPLE SAYING THAT OTHER POPULATIONS ARE WHAT YOU ARE

[Percivalle]

Why do you want to be more related with Germans than to south Italians? Stop being so Nazi and racist :rolleyes:

So you agree that Iberians who try to be related to Irish and British people are just self-haters. :rolleyes:

[Longobarda]

The Apennine Mountains are much much smaller than the Alps, both in size and quantity. Plus, the eastern coast of Italy is not mountainous at all. Passing through it would be easier than going through the Alps.

Definitely you don't know Italian geography. In the past, the west coast was plagued by insane marshes which made people to get sick and die. This is why before those areas were reclaimed, they were not areas used to go South and viceversa.

And, tell me, please, HOW COULD ALL OUR INVADERS COME INTO PIANURA PADANA? BY PLANE?

[Damião de Góis]

So you agree that Iberians who try to be related to Irish and British people are just self-haters. :rolleyes:

If there were such people, yes.

[Kouros]

The little boy in the first photo and the man behind him look fully West Asian... they do not look typically North Italian.

The boy looks whiter than half of Europe and does not really look West Asian at all


Some examples taken randomly:

The fact that you thumbed down Magnus for posting a link that says Northern Italians are Southern European says a lot about you.

[Lavrentis]

The fact that you thumbed down Magnus for posting a link that says Northern Italians are Southern European says a lot about you.

What says a lot about you is that you stick your nose into things that don't affect you.

[Decius]

Closer to South Italy

[Percivalle]

If there were such people, yes.

Right, such people never existed.

[Jana]

People in the Alps simply look closer to each other than to people of mediterranean islands etc.

I don't care for genetics, been to north Italy/south Germany/Austria few times and they look similar enough (I speak about alpine regions only, though).

[Kouros]

What says a lot about you is that you stick your nose into things that don't affect you.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀:lol00002: You and Longoboarda are one and the same

[Longobarda]

The boy looks whiter than half of Europe and does not really look West Asian at all
in that photo there is NOT ONE North italian. None.




The fact that you thumbed down Magnus for posting a link that says Northern Italians are Southern European says a lot about you.

Are you the lawyer of Magnus? And I did not thumbed him down for the reason you say, but because he writes "German occupation of Italy has always been exaggerated", which I've already showed him that his statement is UNTRUE.

[Damião de Góis]

Right, such people never existed.

You said iberians, so at the moment i can't think of any.

[Longobarda]

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀:lol00002: You and Longoboarda are one and the same

Stupid guy, not all are fake identities like you that mutiply the same opinion and votes and are only one.


Because just one in this stupid thread defends my positions he must be myself??

[Longobarda]

Exactly. Quite a homogeneous ethnic group, even... There are some in N Italy that would look odd in S Italy, but most look obviously Italian. But even in Ticino (Switzerland), they are still a lot closer to Sicilians than Germans nearby:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4062/4547196575_268ba916fc_b.jpg


In this photo NONE is North italian. Moreover THERE IS NO ITALIAN IN THIS PHOTO.

[Kouros]

in that photo there is NOT ONE North italian. None.

Actually they're all guys competing in a Mr. Ticino contest. Ticino is a Italian speaking region of Switzerland. So you are right.




Are you the lawyer of Magnus? And I did not thumbed him down for the reason you say, but because he writes "German occupation of Italy has always been exaggerated", which I've already showed him that his statement is UNTRUE.
This isn't even worth a serious reply, I'll just let other Italian users on here make fun of you instead. Instead I'll just post this to remind you that you are closer to Greeks than you are to any Germanic nation.

https://i.imgur.com/iHvyJDc.png

[alnortedelsur]

Right, such people never existed.

Definitively such people never existed. Iberians don't give a shit about being close to British.

If some idiotic posters with ridiculous airs of superiority like Lily and others thinks other wise, is their own problem.

[Longobarda]

Actually they're all guys competing in a Mr. Ticino contest. Ticino is a Italian speaking region of Switzerland. So you are right.

No my dear rattlesnake, you don't cheat me so easily! THEY ARE NOT ITALIAN AT ALL AND NOT TICINESE AT ALL



This isn't even worth a serious reply, I'll just let other Italian users on here make fun of you instead. Instead I'll just post this to remind you that you are closer to Greeks than you are to any Germanic nation.

Since I am in this forum I've become Always more unconfident of these plots. First of all I wonder WHERE the samples to analyze are taken and FROM WHOM. I think that they should be analyzed through surnames not only of last generation but from past generations. What I don't know if they do. And this not only for Italy.
second: these plots are a filth because they analize the DNA and if you have not 1 max 3 different and you are very mixed, you risk to end in Northern Pole or in South South Africa.......... OUT OF THE REALITY

Third: IF I WOULD PLOT GREEK I WOULD BE PROUD in spite of YOU who are a fake greek

[Longobarda]

Definitively such people never existed. Iberians don't give a shit about being close to British.

If some idiotic posters with ridiculous airs of superiority like Lily and others thinks other wise, is their own problem.

I could laugh for an entire month after your declaration my dear viper

[alnortedelsur]

WHY? because i want to say the TRUTH??? These are photographs taken from the web which SHOW WITHOUT ANY POSSIBILITY YOU TO DENY WHAT THE REALITY IS!!!! IMBECILLE IBERICA.
WHY DID YOU NOT COMMENT THE PHOTOS OF IBERIANS THAT SHOWED HOW MEDITERRANEAN YOU ARE???? THE TRUE NAZIES ARE YOU THAT ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO PASS NORDICIST WHEN YOU ARE JUST BERID AND MED AND TRY TO CHEAT PEOPLE SAYING THAT OTHER POPULATIONS ARE WHAT YOU ARE

Listen, stupid German wannabe:

Spaniards just claim to be far more related to other Europeans than to north Africans in response to the trolling of users like you.

That's very far from what you do, of wanting to relate Northern Italians more with Germans than to other Italians, whereas Iberians don't claim to be closer to British than to southern French and Northern Italians. Don't you get the difference?

And regarding Spaniards being only Berid and Med.... lol :lol: ... If you had lived in Spain as you claim, you would not be saying such big stupidity.

[Percivalle]

Actually they're all guys competing in a Mr. Ticino contest. Ticino is a Italian speaking region of Switzerland. So you are right.


This isn't even worth a serious reply, I'll just let other Italian users on here make fun of you instead. Instead I'll just post this to remind you that you are closer to Greeks than you are to any Germanic nation.

https://i.imgur.com/iHvyJDc.png

ITN are 20 Italian Americans in that table, Northern Italians are ITN_N and are not present in that table.


Italian American (ITN, 20 subjects), northern Italian (ITN_N, 13 subjects)

And that study is obsolete and quite questionable.

[JMack]

Well, the Alps were for sure an ethnical and genetic barrier; there's a sharp border between generic North Italy and Germanic world (unless we consider some extreme NE Italians, maybe mixed, during the centuries, with recent German settlers). Going with the plots NW Italians seems almost intermediate between S. Germany and S. Italy, whereas NE Italy seems closer to the former than to the latter. But I think it depends from which parts of Venetia we consider here: I don't think that Verona, Rovigo, Venice, Padoa, Treviso and the southern terrritories of Friul-Julian march (the lagoon areas) are more similar to Austria-S. Germany than to S. Italy.

No. Venetians sometimes score more Northern European even than Northern French. It isn't due to minorities but due to the fact that people in this region have a great amount of North Euro ancestry. My relatives with full or predominantly Venetian blood could all pass easily as Germans and even Scandinavians. No way that this people look closer to Greeks, South Italians or Iberians than to Germans or even Swedes.

But I agree that North Italians as a whole look closer to South Italians.

[Kouros]

No my dear rattlesnake, you don't cheat me so easily! THEY ARE NOT ITALIAN AT ALL AND NOT TICINESE AT ALL

Whole album for your enjoyment: https://hiveminer.com/Tags/switzerland,villasassa

Hover over the photos to see the tags 'ticino' etc. because not all of them have it


Since I am in this forum I've become Always more unconfident of these plots. First of all I wonder WHERE the samples to analyze are taken and FROM WHOM.

From Tuscans and Greeks duhhhh. You can read the study right here if you're up to it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730349/pdf/09_94_tian.pdfhttp:// They literally cluster right next to Greeks and Kosovars in all plots.


second: these plots are a filth because they analize the DNA and if you have not 1 max 3 different and you are very mixed, you risk to end in Northern Pole or in South South Africa.......... OUT OF THE REALITY


ROFL, hopefully you are not being serious

Honest question: Can you tell me why you want to connect yourself to Germans so bad? Who told you that a Tuscan is closer to a Swiss man then he is to a Greek or C. Italian? I sincerely want to know.


I think that they should be analyzed through surnames not only of last generation but from past generations. What I don't know if they do. And this not only for Italy.

ROFL, hopefully you are not being serious

[Kouros]

ITN are 20 Italian Americans in that table, Northern Italians are ITN_N and are not present in that table.

And that study is obsolete and quite questionable.

I was referring to the Tuscan section, my bad. And what's so questionable and obsolete about it?

[GiCa]

inbetween..

but maybe slightly towards austrains or swiss, as they are geographically nearer to those places..

but even more than that correct answer would be rmance people of the alps.. like french swiss, or french from the alps

people from the italian alps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eBDmMsGp-A

[Percivalle]

I was referring to the Tuscan section, my bad. And what's so questionable and obsolete about it?

Tuscans are central Italians and the sample used are just 8 people from southern Tuscany who hardly represent a real regional average. Everything is questionable and obsolete, it's a 8 years old study.

[Cristiano viejo]

So you agree that Iberians who try to be related to Irish and British people are just self-haters. :rolleyes:

You always tell the same lie. You are not able to name a single Iberian user that tries to related us with Irish and British.

In the other hand we have here a good bunch of North Italians who believe they are Germans and renege of their own countrymen of the south :picard1:

Pathetic.

[Sizzo]

No. Venetians sometimes score more Northern European even than Northern French. It isn't due to minorities but due to the fact that people in this region have a great amount of North Euro ancestry. My relatives with full or predominantly Venetian blood could all pass easily as Germans and even Scandinavians. No way that this people look closer to Greeks, South Italians or Iberians than to Germans or even Swedes.

But I agree that North Italians as a whole look closer to South Italians.

Venetians with more N. European score than N. French? Looks impossible, to me. If so you're talking about Germanic minorities, like Cimbrians. I think you're exaggerating the Nordic input of Veneto; in the cities mentioned above there are a lot of Dinaro-Med people. The blond types are present but over all in the northern areas of the region; I don't think there's a concrete amount of Venetian guys who look Scandinavian... Plus, genetically, Venetians are certainly closer to S. Italians than to N. Germans and Scandinavians

[Percivalle]

You always tell the same lie. You are not able to name a single Iberian user that tries to related us with Irish and British.

Interesting. So you all Iberians are stating that there is no relation between Iberians and British people.



In the other hand we have here a good bunch of North Italians who believe they are Germans and renege of their own countrymen of the south :picard1:

Pathetic.

I'm not a northern Italian and I've never met in the real life a northern Italian who believes that northern Italians are German.

[Dandelion]

I'm not a northern Italian and I've never met in the real life a northern Italian who believes that northern Italians are German.

Except for the ones of South Tyrol. :)

[GiCa]

Except for the ones of South Tyrol. :)

North italians from above the Po dont feel germans because of the Language.. but instead they Always remind their cultural connection with swiss, and french alpine people

[Percivalle]

Except for the ones of South Tyrol. :)

As one who was born in an artificial country like Belgium, you perfectly know that German-speaking South Tyroleans are just Germanic. But there are examples of countries like yours where nationality and ethnicity do not go together. ;)

[GiCa]

^you mean the becomed germans South tyroleans.

they are germanic yes.

but remeber that before the german Language there but also in ausria tyrol spoke RETO-ROMANCE languages
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Rhaeto-Romance_languages_now_and_1200_years_ago..png

[alnortedelsur]

Interesting. So you all Iberians are stating that there is no relation between Iberians and British people.



There is obviously some relation, because Iberians are Europeans, just like British, and Iberians just correct to ignorant people who react to any comparison or the suggestion of any link between Iberians and British, like if it was a blasphemy, like if British were being compared to Moroccans :picard1:

With that said, there is NOT any special relation between British and Iberians, and Iberians are NOT particularly close to British, but from there to say that there is no relation at all, like if we were comparing British to Moroccans, that's not true either. There is obviously some relation because all Europeans are somewhat related, and Iberians are not Northern Africans.

If some morons interpret that as "Iberians wanting to be British" that's their own problem.

[Columella]

The Apennine Mountains are much much smaller than the Alps, both in size and quantity. Plus, the eastern coast of Italy is not mountainous at all. Passing through it would be easier than going through the Alps.

The Alps are not a wall like in a HBO fantasy series. But is a vast region full of valleys, rivers and mountain passes. Many centres in the Alps have grown rich and trade with Germany has always been fluent.
The Appenines instead are today poorer regions troubled by earthquakes. It was the Appenine people that practiced “transumanza” with the sheep. The east coast peoples are quite superate
Even today. Only in puglia the dialect difference between Foggia and Lecce are huge.

[GiCa]

going throught the alps is very easy.. otherwise italy would have been not populated by Italic tribes that came from the North crossing the alps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_passes_of_the_Alps
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_di_valichi_di_frontiera_dell%27Italia

tons of Alpine Chours sing about the various Alpine Passes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0kenlHgKRk

[Journeyman26]

Gonna go with Southern Italians. Though I reject that there aren't Southern Italians that look stereotypically "Germanic", just like there are plenty of Northerners who look stereotypically "Southern".

[Percivalle]

The Apennine Mountains are much much smaller than the Alps, both in size and quantity. Plus, the eastern coast of Italy is not mountainous at all. Passing through it would be easier than going through the Alps.

Agreed, but after the fall of Rome and during the Italian preunit states until at least the unification of Italy it was really difficult for people to move. Especially from the Middle Ages to the unity of Italy every state had different passports and nationalities. People always tends to underestimate the political context, which was even a more important barrier than the mountains (Alps are obviously higher than the Apennines but Alps are not impassable).



The Appenines instead are today poorer regions troubled by earthquakes. It was the Appenine people that practiced “transumanza” with the sheep. The east coast peoples are quite superate. Even today. Only in puglia the dialect difference between Foggia and Lecce are huge.

Appennines go from Liguria/Emilia to Calabria. The socio-economic situation is not the same everywhere. And the most dangerous seismic areas range from southernmost Umbria to Calabria.

http://images2.corriereobjects.it/infografiche/2016/08/fotozoom-mappa-pericolosita-sismica-territorio-nazionale/fotozoom-mappa-pericolosita-sismica-territorio-nazionale.jpg

[Kouros]

going throught the alps is very easy.. otherwise italy would have been not populated by Italic tribes that came from the North crossing the alps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_passes_of_the_Alps
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_di_valichi_di_frontiera_dell%27Italia

tons of Alpine Chours sing about the various Alpine Passes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0kenlHgKRk

Just because indo-Europeans crossed the Alps doesn't make it easy

[GiCa]

You are obviously angry because you feel connected with South Italians. If you were Italian you would understand that when I offend them is not absolutely racism but condemning A PART of their culture and anyway I have Tuscan friends of South Italian origins as well as South Italian acquired relatives


Alpine passes are easy to cross expecially because Alpine people are naturally and culturally trained to live and commerce in the Alps since Ever

[GiCa]

Most famous and used since ever passes are the San Bernardo and San Bernardino

[Kouros]

You are obviously angry because you feel connected with South Italians. If you were Italian you would understand that when I offend them is not absolutely racism but condemning A PART of their culture and anyway I have Tuscan friends of South Italian origins as well as South Italian acquired relatives


Just because indo-Europeans crossed the Alps doesn't make it easy

Ctrl+F Southern Italian yields 0 results, why are you chimping out about southerners again?


Alpine passes are easy to cross expecially because Alpine people are naturally and culturally trained to live and commerce in the Alps since Ever

We're not talking about people who have trained themselves to cross them. The fact that they have to be 'trained' to cross them should tell you that it's not easy.

[GiCa]

Ctrl+F Southern Italian yields 0 results, why are you chimping out about southerners again?



We're not talking about people who have trained themselves to cross them. The fact that they have to be 'trained' to cross them should tell you that it's not easy.

No. It s innate for the people there to live and Commerce among the different valleys.. The valley obstacles between Italy and bordering countries are not more hard to cross than the intra Italian Alpine valleys

An Alpine people know everything.. Which passes to use and how to move in the mountains

[EurAmericanDream]

To me, the answer is obvious; they have too much Atlantid and Nordid influence to pass in southern Italy collectively, and they look much more like southern Germans. But not everyone agrees with this.

Southern Germans.

[Longobarda]

To be clear: I am NOT a german wannabe. I am Longobard and Lombard at all the effects. My surname is of LONGOBARD origin, I live near where queen Teodolinda had her headquarter and where the "iron crown" is kept. The crown that was used to crown all the Holy Roman Empire emperors. Charles the Great (Charlemagne) included.
My region's name LOMBARDIA owes its name to longobard people. In my region many longobard graves have been found.

Longobards were german? It is not my fault.

And this is the "iron crown" that was used to crown all the Emperors of Holy Roman Empire, kept in the museum of the Duomo of Monza.

http://www.vanillamagazine.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/La-Corona-Ferrea-del-Duomo-di-Monza-5.jpg

[Mingle]

In the other hand we have here a good bunch of North Italians who believe they are Germans and renege of their own countrymen of the south :picard1:

Good bunch? There's only one I saw.

I voted Southern Italians, but I don't think it's weird for them to be seen as closer to Germans. After voting, I saw a table comparing them autosomally and they were closer to Switzerland, Austria, and Southern Germany than to Southern Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Europe#Autosomal_genetic_distan ces_.28Fst.29_based_on_SNPs_.282009.29

Another user posted a PCA plot saying Northwest Italians were closer to Italians from the south whereas Northeast Italians were closer to Germans.

[Longobarda]

Good bunch? There's only one I saw.

I voted Southern Italians, but I don't think it's weird for them to be seen as closer to Germans. After voting, I saw a table comparing them autosomally and they were closer to Switzerland, Austria, and Southern Germany than to Southern Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Europe#Autosomal_genetic_distan ces_.28Fst.29_based_on_SNPs_.282009.29

Another user posted a PCA plot saying Northwest Italians were closer to Italians from the south whereas Northeast Italians were closer to Germans.

The problem is where they take the samples to extract the DNA. I see that often they use the italian-americans, which is not a real sample for all italian peninsula, infact the majority of those who emigrated to US were original of Sicily and Campania (South Italians). Pity that in Italy we have 20 regions and they are not representing all the rest.

[Zroota]

Southern Germans if they happen to mostly look like this:

https://twilightsingapore.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/peterfacinelli.jpg?w=590
https://data.whicdn.com/images/10099099/large.jpg

[MinervaItalica]

This thread is turning into a trolling one as expected.

I still can't belive why foreigers are so much interested if Northern Italians are closers to the Southern ones (which in the end is the same thing so the thread title has not much sense) than Germans.

I repeat, this thread has no sense because Northern Italians aren't a different ethnicity than Southern ones. It's logic that Italians are closer each other first. Obviusly, there are always people (both from north and south) who can pass easily in Germany and Central Europe.

And WTF people care too much if Longobarda feels more related to Germans? It's her business.

[Dandelion]

As one who was born in an artificial country like Belgium, you perfectly know that German-speaking South Tyroleans are just Germanic. But there are examples of countries like yours where nationality and ethnicity do not go together. ;)

Well, the word nationality used to mean ethnicity. ;) But also means statehood I guess. They are, but they'll remain part of Italy for a long time to come regardless. That's not changing. Schengen made it more bearable for them though. And nationalism in Europe has become far less divisive compared to several generations ago, that also helps.

It made me look up an interesting docu. I knew they were given the option to become German citizens or get assimilated into the Italian culture (it doesn't mention they were to be spread throughout Italy to ease that process for them). All history I know about. What I didn't know was that 86% chose to become German citizens (such a high percentage because they were to get displaced anyway, I think). Due to WWII only 30% of them did end up in German territory, though, most of them in what is today Austria.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yBWP9wRnY

Kind of a weird thumbnail. It makes one think the Italian fascist government discriminated them so heavily, they were deprived of dental care. :p

[Bolsonaro2018]

I've never been in Italy, but I know a lot of italian descendants in my region, I can say for sure most of they have venetian heritage which the last time I checked it was a northeasterner province in Italy (my italian part came from a city called Pádua there btw), so according with my experience with them I can say they are usually Alpinid, Norid or Subnordid what means a very central-euro looking. Also there is a lot of Dinarid influence among S. Germans anyway, I guess their 'nordic' image can be overrated, at least for southern germans.

[Iloko]

Southern Italians

[Mingle]

The problem is where they take the samples to extract the DNA. I see that often they use the italian-americans, which is not a real sample for all italian peninsula, infact the majority of those who emigrated to US were original of Sicily and Campania (South Italians). Pity that in Italy we have 20 regions and they are not representing all the rest.

Scroll down a bit. In the second table, they use Italians from Italy.

Btw, I think Italian-Americans can sometimes be mixed with Irish or German.

[Sizzo]

I wonder why some people claim that N.Italy and S.Italy are the same since the genetic scenario is still the one which was in Italy during the pre-Roman times... After the WWII they tried to delete the internal differences with an exodus of "teroons" towards the North, but if you consider the native individuals of the Alpine arch and of the Po plain you can still see the great gap that exists between the North and the South of Italy. Germans or ancient Germanic peoples have nothing to do with all these: we're talking about a different reality from the South since Neolithic times. Deal with it, guys, and do not support the ethno-cultural genocide of ethnic Lombardians (NW Italy) and people from Triveneto (NE Italy). North Italy is not the peninsula, has a sub-continental climate, it belongs to the Western Romance family and is Central-SW Europe (while the South is SE Europe), it became Italy only with the Roman conquest because the original "Italia" was the tip of modern Calabria and has a distinct Central European influx that make it a conjuction ring between Mediterranean Sea and Mitteleuropa. Northern Italy, aka Great Lombardy, has got a peculiar ethno-cultural profile that we must respect; who claims that there aren't any concrete differences between the North and the South is only an impostor.

[Jana]

I've never been in Italy, but I know a lot of italian descendants in my region, I can say for sure most of they have venetian heritage which the last time I checked it was a northeasterner province in Italy (my italian part came from a city called Pádua there btw), so according with my experience with them I can say they are usually Alpinid, Norid or Subnordid what means a very central-euro looking. Also there is a lot of Dinarid influence among S. Germans anyway, I guess their 'nordic' image can be overrated, at least for southern germans.

Nobody has nordic image about southern Germans, who live in Europe.
In fact some SW Germans can be quite ''swarthy'' brunet bunch.

[Onogošt]

Southern Germans.

[Onogošt]

Native northern Italians are more similar to southern Germans, but a lot of southern Italians and Sicilians migrated to the northern Italy in the last 150 years and they mixed with northern Italians and because of that northern Italian today are darker than 200 or 300 years ago.

Before mass imigration from southern Italy and Sicily northern Italians were central Europeans in genetic and phenotypes.

[Sizzo]

Native northern Italians are more similar to southern Germans, but a lot of southern Italians and Sicilians migrated to the northern Italy in the last 150 years and they mixed with northern Italians and because of that northern Italian today are darker than 200 or 300 years ago.

Before mass imigration from southern Italy and Sicily northern Italians were central Europeans in genetic and phenotypes.

This is an exaggeration, man: not every North Italian is mixed with Southerners. Well, if you go in the area between Milan, Turin and Genoa you'll find plenty of full Southerners or mixed guys but, as a whole, North Italy belongs to the southern European cluster (that, certainly, is not homogeneous at all...). Btw yes, millions of S.Italians went in the North, over all in the NW area, but also in Latium and Tuscany. It's a shame because this situation is not useful, neither for Southerners nor for Central-Northerners.

[GiCa]

It s not a shame.. They did it good because there is more opurtunity here.

And those here ad quite the same mentality of local people

They are Italian too

Shame is instead how some things work on the south regions

[Sizzo]

It s not a shame.. They did it good because there is more opurtunity here.

And those here ad quite the same mentality of local people

They are Italian too

Shame is instead how some things work on the south regions

It's a shame because the Southern exodus has comported the democratic "genocide" of Northern Italians. The "meridionalization" of North Italy is a negative fact, because isn't the solution of Mezzogiorno troubles and, for sure, is a great damage for Alpino-Padanian identity. When you deport millions of people, from depressed areas, to work in North Italian industries you're waging wars between the poor, like what happens nowadays with migrants in Europe. Mass immigration is always wrong and only parasites can enjoy this.

[GiCa]

Here the second generation usually has the local Tuscan mentality.

What we have to condemn is not people who migrate.. As I welcome greatly. My friends are mostly even with origins from the south

What we have to separate with fiscal federalism is how some of them on the south manage money. For example those who don't go to work but pass their pass to get the presence like it happens in the hospitals of neaples

Eccc

[Bolsonaro2018]

I'm curious. How much typical is Bolsonaro for North Italy?

His paternal surname (Bolzonaro) and maternal surname (Bonturi) seems typical for Venetians. Alpinid + Norid

https://conteudo.imguol.com.br/c/noticias/24/2016/06/21/21jun2016---o-deputado-federal-jair-bolsonaro-psc-rj-tornou-se-reu-em-duas-acoes-penais-no-stf-supremo-tribunal-federal-nesta-terca-feira-21-ele-respondera-por-incitacao-ao-crime-de-estupro-e-uma-1466544100713_300x300.jpg

What about these?

https://conteudo.imguol.com.br/c/esporte/d9/2017/08/22/felipao-e-cuca-no-palmeiras-1503438730992_615x300.png

Felipão (Lombardian surname) is strongly Dinarid, same as Cuca (Venetian surname).


Among these three, who looks more pan-northern italian?

[Percivalle]

I'm curious. How much typical is Bolsonaro for North Italy?

He reminds me of my uncle who is central Italian.

[MagnusAurelius]

Here the second generation usually has the local Tuscan mentality.

What we have to condemn is not people who migrate.. As I welcome greatly. My friends are mostly even with origins from the south

What we have to separate with fiscal federalism is how some of them on the south manage money. For example those who don't go to work but pass their pass to get the presence like it happens in the hospitals of neaples

Eccc

Females ruin Cultures and believe in left wing fantasies more easily, Italy is polarized politically while Non-Europeans are flooded in, no party is taking hard measures to stop immigration. Hordes of Negroids are flooding in as are other Non-Europeans while people on here are concerned with irrelevant topics.

Keep it up with your "anti racist" mantra, go to an ANTIFA demonstration, corrupt weaklings paid by George Soro's, gonna keep believing in "Anti Racist" liberal delusions when Italians are marginalized in their own Culture? The Muslims only seek a separate identity and rape women more. Their supremacist religion considers a Kaffir inferior. You keep going along with it weakling.

[MagnusAurelius]

As always it goes off topic because people make mundane topics all the time comparing looks.

[Septentrion]

Southern Italians

Northern Italians are between South Germans and South Italians, but closer slightly to their Italian counterparts.

[Token]

Venetians with more N. European score than N. French? Looks impossible, to me. If so you're talking about Germanic minorities, like Cimbrians. I think you're exaggerating the Nordic input of Veneto; in the cities mentioned above there are a lot of Dinaro-Med people. The blond types are present but over all in the northern areas of the region; I don't think there's a concrete amount of Venetian guys who look Scandinavian... Plus, genetically, Venetians are certainly closer to S. Italians than to N. Germans and Scandinavians

Germanic-speaking minorities form a single cluster together with Venetians and Triveneto in general. Central and Northern Venetians, excluding those from more southern and coastal places, plot with and even north of Cimbrians and others minorities. And yes, they are much closer to Germans and even Northern Germans than to Southern Italians.

https://i.imgur.com/vEGA9LN.png

[Token]

Germans or ancient Germanic peoples have nothing to do with all these: we're talking about a different reality from the South since Neolithic times.
They certainly played a role in the augmentation of Steppe ancestry in Northern Italians, with northeasterners being the peak of Steppe-derived ancestry, that is the component most responsible for the northern-shift of North Italians in comparison to their southern counterparts, and the ones who received more Germanic migrations (recent and old) in all Italy. But yes, the main cause of this was a more intense population replacement during the Bronze Age, probably by Proto-Italic and Proto-Celtic speakers, and the consequent decrease of Neolithic ancestry.

[Percivalle]

Germanic-speaking minorities form a single cluster together with Venetians and Triveneto in general. Central and Northern Venetians, excluding those from more southern and coastal places, plot with and even north of Cimbrians and others minorities. And yes, they are much closer to Germans and even Northern Germans than to Southern Italians.

https://i.imgur.com/vEGA9LN.png

Cimbrians surely mixed with the local population. But this is also probalby true for the other minorities. After all, these minorities settled north-east Italy 800/900 years ago.


This is what the study stated.



Moving on from groups to single populations, we observed the strongest signals of isolation in Sauris and Sappada (...) By contrast, the weakest signal of isolation is provided by the Cimbrians, who show the lowest values for all measures (...) A high level of genetic drift can be observed for the entire Sardinian branch, and, even more pronounced for single German-speaking islands of Sappada, Sauris and Timau. Interestingly, the Cimbrians from Lessinia are more closely related to the Northern Italians and are located in the tree upstream to all northern and western European populations. (...) A breakdown of the cultural barrier might account for the behavior of Cimbrians. In fact, only a limited number of individuals is today able to use the Cimbrian language, a situation in contrast with the persistence of the original linguistic features in other German speaking communities. This form of cultural assimilation, which started in the middle of the 16th century, probably increased the permeability of Cimbrians to gene flow from neighbouring populations.

In the case of the German-speaking islands, signals of heterogeneity among populations seem to prevail. Sappada, Sauris and Timau were found to be clearly different from each other both regarding intra and inter-population diversity. High genetic distances among Sauris, Sappada and Timau have already been observed with unilinear markers9, a pattern that is probably associated with the occurrence of a form of social behaviour which we termed “local ethnicity”. Despite their closely related languages and shared traditions, members of Alpine linguistic islands tend to identify their ancestry with their own village rather than considering themselves as part of the same ethnic group9. Such strong territoriality when defining ethnic identities and boundaries may have played a role in marriage strategies, decreasing the genetic exchange among the three linguistic islands. This “isolation among isolates” might have also led to the genomic structure of each of them evolving independently.

[Mingle]

Germanic-speaking minorities form a single cluster together with Venetians and Triveneto in general. Central and Northern Venetians, excluding those from more southern and coastal places, plot with and even north of Cimbrians and others minorities. And yes, they are much closer to Germans and even Northern Germans than to Southern Italians.

https://i.imgur.com/vEGA9LN.png

How come there is that one dot labelled "North_Italian" all the way to the far right? Which part of North Italy do you think it's from?

[Token]

How come there is that one dot labelled "North_Italian" all the way to the far right? Which part of North Italy do you think it's from?

Northwestern Italy, including Liguria, Lombardy and Piedmont. As you can see, they are significantly more southern-shifted that those east of them and it makes sense since Italic tribes are supposed to have entered Italy from the northeast so, when they reached the west and later the south, the Indo-European-like ancestry was already diluted with Neolithic components.

[Percivalle]

How come there is that one dot labelled "North_Italian" all the way to the far right? Which part of North Italy do you think it's from?

It's most likely Bergamo HGDP sample, the usual sample used in most calculators.



Northwestern Italy, including Liguria, Lombardy and Piedmont. As you can see, they are significantly more southern-shifted that those east of them and it makes sense since Italic tribes are supposed to have entered Italy from the northeast so, when they reached the west and later the south, the Indo-European-like ancestry was already diluted with Neolithic components.

Piedmont Alps can be different and more northern-shifted but unlike North-East Italy, they usually go in a more western direction.

[Dandelion]

If I had a say in this. All of Italy would become like South Tyrol instead of vice versa. So better get used to those lederhosen (though a dirndl neither would look bad on the Italiane here).

[Token]

Piedmont Alps can be different and more northern-shifted but unlike North-East Italy, they usually go in a more western direction.
The extreme north of Piedmont probably plot close to Swiss Italians.

[Sizzo]

Germanic-speaking minorities form a single cluster together with Venetians and Triveneto in general. Central and Northern Venetians, excluding those from more southern and coastal places, plot with and even north of Cimbrians and others minorities. And yes, they are much closer to Germans and even Northern Germans than to Southern Italians.

https://i.imgur.com/vEGA9LN.png

Good luck if you think that people from Rovigo, Venice, Verona and Padua are closer to people from Hamburg and Hannover than to the ones from Naples, L'Aquila, Foggia and Trapani.

[Jana]

Good luck if you think that people from Rovigo, Venice, Verona and Padua are closer to people from Hamburg and Hannover than to the ones from Naples, L'Aquila, Foggia and Trapani.

They surely aren't - that's complete exaggeration.

[caviezel]

they look closer to Swiss Germans than to Calabrians and Sicilians but they look closer to Campanians than to Bavarians if you ask me.
Genetically I would wager that even South Tyroleans are closer to us than to Austrians, let alone to the rest of Germans.
The Ladins in Bozen cluster very tightly with other North Italians but many of them have a certain austrian look with large maxillo-facial measures.

[Token]

Good luck if you think that people from Rovigo, Venice, Verona and Padua are closer to people from Hamburg and Hannover than to the ones from Naples, L'Aquila, Foggia and Trapani.
There's no specific study aimed to these specific regions but Veneto in general is closer to Germans and i already showed that using a plot map in a previous post, calculating how much pixels away they are from them and from their southern counterparts. Also, Padua is a hotspot of haplogroups associated to Germanic-speaking populations, with a percentage of I1 comparable to coastal Normandy so yes, i expect them to plot within the Triveneto cluster and hence closer to Germans than to Southern Italians by a long margin.

[Sizzo]

They surely aren't - that's complete exaggeration.

In Triveneto the real blonde areas (or, better, areas when you can find a sensible amount of Nordoid features) are the ones with a historical contact with Germanic and Slavic people: around Asiago (Cymbrian territory north of Vicenza), Cadore (north of Belluno), Cansiglio area (where there's the famous forest), Trentino (not completely though, it was, at first, a North-Etruscan/Rhaetic land), Alto Adige of course (keep in mind that also south Tyroleans are often Mediterranean-Dinaric) upper Carnia and Slavia friulana, zones with historical minorities.

[Percivalle]

They surely aren't - that's complete exaggeration.

Indeed, northern Germans are even distant from southern Germans themselves.

[Sizzo]

There's no specific study aimed to these specific regions but Veneto in general is closer to Germans and i already showed that using a plot map in a previous post, calculating how much pixels away they are from them. Also, Padua is a hotspot of haplogroups associated to Germanic-speaking populations, with a percentage of I1 compared to coastal Normandy so yes, i expect them to plot within the Triveneto cluster and hence closer to Germans than to Southern Italians by a long margin.

We're talking about autosomal man, not haplogroups, otherwise you have to consider Southern cities with a great Germanic founder effect (like Campobasso, for example). As a whole, and not only genetically, no way that Venetia is more similar to Germans than S. Italians. We are talking about territories with a strong Rhaetian, Neolithic, Balkanic/Adriatic input, and even with Byzantine traces.

[Jana]

In Triveneto the real blonde areas (or, better, areas when you can find a sensible amount of Nordoid features) are the ones with a historical contact with Germanic and Slavic people: around Asiago (Cymbrian territory north of Vicenza), Cadore (north of Belluno), Cansiglio area (where there's the famous forest), Trentino (not completely though, it was, at first, a North-Etruscan/Rhaetic land), Alto Adige of course (keep in mind that also south Tyroleans are often Mediterranean-Dinaric) upper Carnia and Slavia friulana, zones with historical minorities.

I agree. Most common phenotypes for NE Italians from what I've seen (and I've seen a lot) - noric, alpine, atlanto-med, borreby and some purer nordoids, meds and dinarids here and there. noric/alpine combination is typical for Austria and SE Germany as well, but Italians in NE still look Italian facially speaking, despite types are more or less similar to southern Germans (with only exception atlanto-meds are uncommon in Germany).

Speaking about Germans from Hamburg or Hannover, they are very different story, almost Scandinavian like population - nordics, faelids with clear northern european complexion/features. Genetically they're intermediate between northern and central europeans, and north italians are intermediate between central and southern Europeans.

So I'd say looks wise north Italians as a whole are closer to Austrians and Swiss-Germans than to southern Italians, but much closer to southern Italians than to northern Germans.

[Token]

We're talking about autosomal man, not haplogroups, otherwise you have to consider Southern cities with a great Germanic founder effect (like Campobasso, for example). As a whole, and not only genetically, no way that Venetia is more similar to Germans than S. Italians. We are talking about territories with a strong Rhaetian, Neolithic, Balkanic/Adriatic input, and even with Byzantine traces.

Genetically they are and this have more to do with the influx of Yamnaya-like ancestry in the region and how intense was the population replacement during the Bronze Age, when Indo-European speakers first entered the peninsula. Remember that Italic tribes entered Italy from the east of the Alps so it makes perfect sense that the more north->east you go, the more northern-shifted is the population.

https://i.imgur.com/zEJDvAg.png

[Jana]

Indeed, northern Germans are even distant from southern Germans themselves.

And not by small margin. Germany is as diverse genetically as Italy is.

[Token]

And not by small margin. Germany is as diverse genetically as Italy is.

No, they aren't. Italy is the country with the greatest genetic variation between different regions. North Germans naturally plot north of south and west Germans but, compared to the divergence that exists between north and south Italy and even south and north France, they are pretty a homogeneous population.

[Dandelion]

And not by small margin. Germany is as diverse genetically as Italy is.

And conversely the Risorgimento was a similar process as the German Unification.

[Percivalle]

And not by small margin. Germany is as diverse genetically as Italy is.

Indeed. Of course even Southern Germany has "Germanic types" which characterize them but the differences are evident.




Genetically they are and this have more to do with the influx of Yamnaya-like ancestry in the region and how intense was the population replacement during the Bronze Age, when Indo-European speakers first entered the peninsula. Remember that Italic tribes entered Italy from the east of the Alps so it makes perfect sense that the more north->east you go, the more northern-shifted is the population.

https://i.imgur.com/zEJDvAg.png

This PCA done by Ibericus is mixing academic samples with gedmatch kits. I doubt that the all averages are accurate in the same way.

[Impaler]

Nobody has nordic image about southern Germans, who live in Europe.
In fact some SW Germans can be quite ''swarthy'' brunet bunch.

The best is example is Gerd Müller from Nördlingen.

http://i.imgur.com/pN1GbMQ.jpg (https://imgur.com/pN1GbMQ)

[Jana]

No, they aren't. Italy is the country with the greatest genetic variation between different regions. North Germans naturally plot north of south and west Germans but, compared to the divergence that exists between north and south Italy and even south and north France, they are pretty a homogeneous population.

North Germans are close to Danes, Dutch, British Islanders.
Western Germans to Belgians and French.
Southern Germans/Swiss Germans overlap with northernmost Italians.
East Germans/Austrians cluster with Czechs, Hungarians.

OK, Germany don't have genetic isolates like Italy has Sardinia etc......but it's far from homogenous nation.

[Token]

This PCA done by Ibericus is mixing academic samples with gedmatch kits. I doubt that the all averages are accurate in the same way.

It looks accurate and in consensus with others PCAs and Gedmatch kits from Italy that i've seen, i just used it because it includes narrower categories.

[Sizzo]

Genetically they are and this have more to do with the influx of Yamnaya-like ancestry in the region and how intense was the population replacement during the Bronze Age, when Indo-European speakers first entered the peninsula. Remember that Italic tribes entered Italy from the east of the Alps so it makes perfect sense that the more north->east you go, the more northern-shifted is the population.

https://i.imgur.com/zEJDvAg.png

NE Italy is surely more northern and nordic than NW Italy, but you can't claim, with those lines drawn in a random plot, that Veneto as a whole is closer to N. Germans than to S. Italians; it's obviously a complete exaggeration. Veneto as a whole is probably closer to Austrians, than "teroons", going with genetics, but I don't think at all that is closer to N.Central Germany than to our South. Keep in mind that Germany has a great genetic north-south cline, just like Italy and, probably, more accentuated, than Italy itself. If Saxons are very different from Bavarians, let alone Venetians.

[Token]

North Germans are close to Danes, Dutch, British Islanders.
Western Germans to Belgians and French.
Southern Germans/Swiss Germans overlap with northernmost Italians.
East Germans/Austrians cluster with Czechs, Hungarians.

OK, Germany don't have genetic isolates like Italy has Sardinia etc......but it's far from homogenous nation.

Yes, it have genetic variations like any other country but the 'core' is the same with distinct influences in certain regions that makes them shift towards other populations, like the Slavonic influence in East Germans for example. By the way, just for comparison, the genetic difference between north and south Germans is smaller than the difference between Triveneto and Northwestern Italy.

[Token]

NE Italy is surely more northern and nordic than NW Italy, but you can't claim, with those lines drawn in a random plot, that Veneto as a whole is closer to N. Germans than to S. Italians; it's obviously a complete exaggeration. Veneto as a whole is probably closer to Austrians, than "teroons", going with genetics, but I don't think at all that is closer to N.Central Germany than to our South. Keep in mind that Germany has a great genetic north-south cline, just like Italy and, probably, more accentuated, than Italy itself. If Saxons are very different from Bavarians, let alone Venetians.

No, it don't. The difference between northeastern and northwestern Italians alone is greater than the difference between Saxons and South Germans by a long margin.

[Bobby Martnen]

Well, the word nationality used to mean ethnicity. ;) But also means statehood I guess. They are, but they'll remain part of Italy for a long time to come regardless. That's not changing. Schengen made it more bearable for them though. And nationalism in Europe has become far less divisive compared to several generations ago, that also helps.

It made me look up an interesting docu. I knew they were given the option to become German citizens or get assimilated into the Italian culture (it doesn't mention they were to be spread throughout Italy to ease that process for them). All history I know about. What I didn't know was that 86% chose to become German citizens (such a high percentage because they were to get displaced anyway, I think). Due to WWII only 30% of them did end up in German territory, though, most of them in what is today Austria.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yBWP9wRnY

Kind of a weird thumbnail. It makes one think the Italian fascist government discriminated them so heavily, they were deprived of dental care. :p

South Tyroleans are no more Italian than Irishmen were English 100 years ago. Being ruled by a country doesn't make you a member of their people.

[Jana]

Forgot to mention Baltic Germans/aka Prussians - they are genetically largerly native to east baltic region with dominant haplogrups like N1c and R1a.....add that to German diversity + Volga Germans and Danube Swabians, Transylvanian Saxons - now all living in Germany, and having large admixture from host population in regions they lived prior to ww2.

[Percivalle]

It looks accurate and in consensus with others PCAs and Gedmatch kits from Italy that i've seen, i just used it because it includes narrower categories.

None is denying that northeastern Italians are the most northeastern-shifted Italians, but that PCA is far from being completely accurate.

[Dandelion]

South Tyroleans are no more Italian than Irishmen were English 100 years ago. Being ruled by a country doesn't make you a member of their people.

Obviously. But European borders show ethnic anomalies, especially across different language families. And country aren't willing to just give up land.

Why state the obvious as if you're telling me something new, by the way?

Nation means people, not state. Look up the etymology.

[Bobby Martnen]

Genetically I would wager that even South Tyroleans are closer to us than to Austrians, let alone to the rest of Germans.


South Tyroleans are literally Austrians who got caught on the wrong side of a border after WWI.

[Jana]

To me it's silly to speak about ''nordicness'' of NE Italians ; they're still quite more med than nearby Slovenians and Croatians, and we are really far from nordic populations be it anthropolgy or genetics on average.

People need to learn that Central Europe is very mixed region and pred. brunette.

[Bobby Martnen]

Obviously. But European borders show ethnic anomalies, especially across different language families. And country aren't willing to just give up land.

Why state the obvious as if you're telling me something new, by the way?

Nation means people, not state. Look up the etymology.

Separatism is becoming more popular in Europe. South Tyrol should go back to Austria, given its demographics. Give Italy Corsica as compensation.

[Sizzo]

No, it don't. The difference between northeastern and northwestern Italians alone is greater than the difference between Saxons and South Germans by a long margin.

You are drunk, mate.

[Dandelion]

Separatism is becoming more popular in Europe. South Tyrol should go back to Austria, given its demographics. Give Italy Corsica as compensation.

South Tyrol is economically stable and Corsica is an economic mess. :p Not happening I'm afraid. Just how the world works.

[Percivalle]

By the way, just for comparison, the genetic difference between north and south Germans is smaller than the difference between Triveneto and Northwestern Italy.

Ok, now we're definitely in Fantasie-land.

[Sizzo]

Ok, now we're definitely in Fantasie-land.

Ehi Percy, tomorrow I have to go to Verona (not even 120 km from Bergamo); well, I must take my passport because, apparently, lies in Ukraine.

[JMack]

To me it's silly to speak about ''nordicness'' of NE Italians ; they're still quite more med than nearby Slovenians and Croatians, and we are really far from nordic populations be it anthropolgy or genetics on average.

People need to learn that Central Europe is very mixed region and pred. brunette.

These relatives of mine look lighter than you and average Croatians and they are only 75%-50% Venetian, the rest 25% -50% is Southern Italian (they could pass in North Germany but not in Calabria or Campania as typical IMO):

PICS REMOVED

There are others with which I don't have much contact that look even lighter than these ones.

I don't have pics of my great-grandfather now (full Venetian), but he looked almost Danish/Saxon/Frisian. And, no, he wasn't from German minority, our surname is Italian and I can trace our ancestry to 1226 (but the lineage is indeed Germanic originated though).

Don't quote.

[Token]

You are drunk, mate.

This is your argument? My statement is backed by genetics, like it or not.

[Sizzo]

This is your argument? My statement is backed by genetics, like it or not.

Which genetics? A random amateur plot? Oh come on... It's a total non-sense saying that there's more distance between NW Italians and NE Italians than to N.Germans and S.Germans.

[Token]

To me it's silly to speak about ''nordicness'' of NE Italians ; they're still quite more med than nearby Slovenians and Croatians, and we are really far from nordic populations be it anthropolgy or genetics on average.

People need to learn that Central Europe is very mixed region and pred. brunette.

Northeastern Italians aren't Nordic but Central Europeans, genetically, culturally and phenotypically, while Lombardy and those west of them are rarely included.

[Percivalle]

South Tyrol is economically stable and Corsica is an economic mess. :p Not happening I'm afraid. Just how the world works.

Only a lowlife corner boy from an artificial country can think to troll Italians using these arguments. ;)

[Dandelion]

Only a lowlife corner boy from an artificial country can think to troll Italians using these arguments. ;)

How am I trolling?

[Sizzo]

Northeastern Italians aren't Nordic but Central Europeans, genetically, culturally and phenotypically, while Lombardy and those west of them are rarely included.

Only in your wet dreams Rovigo, Verona, Padoa, Venice are Central Europe HAHAHAHA! Ok ok, you're a troll. Never mind

[caviezel]

Northeastern Italians aren't Nordic but Central Europeans, genetically, culturally and phenotypically, while Lombardy and those west of them are rarely included.the sample from Lombardy counts 13 people only. take other 13 people from the same area and you could have a quite different plotting.

[Token]

Which genetics? A random amateur plot? Oh come on... It's a total non-sense saying that there's more distance between NW Italians and NE Italians than to N.Germans and S.Germans.

The PCA just represents what studies about Bronze Age replacements and results from these regions have shown since always, i'm just simplifying and shortening the explanation using a graphic representation for people that aren't well-read in genetics, aka the great majority of people here.

[Jana]

...

Hw could they be lighter than me, when I'm blond and pretty much nordic ?

By the way, I know how Venetians look like.
As whole, Croats are lighter than them, especially northern Croats.

Until 19 year old I was platinum blond which is pretty much uncommon on mediterranean coast.
Yes, I'm not average Croat, but there are plenty of them who are similar.

It is obvious we will be more lighter pigmented than Italians (including northern), when we have more northern European genetic component.

[caviezel]

Hw could they be lighter than me, when I'm blond and pretty much nordic ?

By the way, I know how Venetians look like.
As whole, Croats are lighter than them, especially northern Croats.

Until 19 year old I was platinum blond which is pretty much uncommon on mediterranean coast.
Yes, I'm not average Croat, but there are plenty of them who are similar.

It is obvious we will be more lighter pigmented than Italians (including northern), when we have more northern European genetic component.
Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than all South Europeans but they plot a lot more South.

[Percivalle]

Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than all South Europeans but they plot a lot more South.

This is just another exaggeration, they are not lighter than all South Europeans, but they are surely lighter than their plot would suggest.

[JMack]

Hw could they be lighter than me, when I'm blond and pretty much nordic ?

By the way, I know how Venetians look like.
As whole, Croats are lighter than them, especially northern Croats.

Until 19 year old I was platinum blond which is pretty much uncommon on mediterranean coast.
Yes, I'm not average Croat, but there are plenty of them who are similar.

It is obvious we will be more northern pigmented than Italians (including northern), when we have more northern European genetic component.

Well, everyone with eyes can see they look more Northern than you (I would not mistake you for German for example), the last two women could pass even in Norway as kids. And Croats aren't more Northern than Venetians. Croats are more Northern than Northern Italians as a whole, but not than Venetians.

Anyway I don't care about it at all and sooner or later someone will accuse me of nordicism or any shit like that for speaking the truth.

And my opinion is that Northern Italians look closer to Southern Italians as a whole.

[Jana]

Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than all South Europeans but they plot a lot more South.

It isn't really true, most of them look very Jewish. Hollywoods Askhenazi Jews are often mixed with northern Europeans, and people tend to think they're typical.
One thing is unusual though- red pigment is common among them for some reason.

[Tacitus]

Separatism is becoming more popular in Europe. South Tyrol should go back to Austria, given its demographics. Give Italy Corsica as compensation.

Sudtirol is rightful Italian clay :):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Shepherd_Map_of_Ancient_Italy%2C_Northern_Part.jpg

[caviezel]

It isn't really true, most of them look very Jewish. Hollywoods Askhenazi Jews are often mixed with northern Europeans, and people tend to think they're typical.
One thing is unusual though- red pigment is common among them for some reason.
they are quite lighter than Sardinians and they plot a lot more South. I've seen orthodox Jews in Isreal.

[MinervaItalica]

Sudtirol is rightful Italian clay :):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Shepherd_Map_of_Ancient_Italy%2C_Northern_Part.jpg

*Alto Adige. :)

[Lavrentis]

they are quite lighter than Sardinians and they plot a lot more South. I've seen orthodox Jews in Isreal.

Sardinians are darker because of the climate of their island, genetically most of them probably cluster fully in Europe

[Jana]

Well, everyone with eyes can see they look more Northern than you (I would not mistake you for German for example), the last two women could pass even in Norway as kids.
Lol I easily pass in Scandinavia (you can ask members from there what they think....), not to mention I'm quite lighter and northern than usual southern Germans.
By the way, I lived in Germany and being partly German myself, know these things.


And Croats aren't more Northern than Venetians. Croats are more Northern than Northern Italians as a whole, but not than Venetians.
Absolutely incorrect. We get half Belarusian half Central Italian on oracles, not to mention scientific researches, it's very far from truth.

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/previews.figshare.com/2251623/860/p_01.png

So, not that we are little bit more northern than Venetians, but by large margin.


Anyway I don't care about it at all and sooner or later someone will accuse me of nordicism or any shit like that for speaking the truth.
And my opinion is that Northern Italians look closer to Southern Italians as a whole.
It not that, I just think you aren't informed enough.

[JMack]

Sardinians are darker because of the climate of their island, genetically most of them probably cluster fully in Europe

All Sardinians cluster fully in Europe. And Israel is hotter than Sardinia I think. But the fact is that Ashkenazi ethnogenesis happened in Central Europe, so they are probably adapted to this climate, you may have a point.

[Jana]

they are quite lighter than Sardinians and they plot a lot more South. I've seen orthodox Jews in Isreal.

Orthodox Jews are some seriously inbred population, they are extremely pale/light and look all similar to each other.
Something wrong with these people, seriously. Usual Askhenazis don't look like that.

[Token]

These relatives of mine look lighter than you and average Croatians and they are only 75%-50% Venetian, the rest 25% -50% is Southern Italian (they could pass in North Germany but not in Calabria or Campania as typical IMO):
There are others with which I don't have much contact that look even lighter than these ones.
I don't have pics of my great-grandfather now (full Venetian), but he looked almost Danish/Saxon/Frisian. And, no, he wasn't from German minority, our surname is Italian and I can trace our ancestry to 1226 (but the lineage is indeed Germanic originated though).

The majority of Italian immigrants that came to Brazil were from Veneto, guess why people here think that the stereotypical Italian is blonde, blue-eyed and light skinned. :rolleyes:


Only in your wet dreams Rovigo, Verona, Padoa, Venice are Central Europe HAHAHAHA! Ok ok, you're a troll. Never mind

It's your opinion and scholars don't care about it. You don't have nothing to back up your claims so you become hysteric and try to discredit me, typical behavior of Lombards in this forum.

[Lavrentis]

But the fact is that Ashkenazi ethnogenesis happened in Central Europe, so they are probably adapted to this climate, you may have a point.

Yeah that's what I meant. And a lot of Ashkenazis were already mixed with Central, Northern and Eastern Europeans when they arrived to Israel.

[JMack]

Absolutely incorrect. We get half Belarusian half Central Italian on oracles, not to mention scientific researches, it's very far from truth.

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/previews.figshare.com/2251623/860/p_01.png

So, not that we are little bit more northern than Venetians, but by large margin.


It not that, I just think you aren't informed enough.

This chart includes North Italians as a whole if I'm not mistaken, not only Venetians. Of course using Tuscans or Ligurians for North Italians Croats would be far northern.

Look at the pca plot the member Token posted, it's more accurate because it include Venetian populations separated from other North Italians.

[caviezel]

Orthodox Jews are some seriously inbred population, they are extremely pale/light and look all similar to each other.
Something wrong with these people, seriously. Usual Askhenazis don't look like that.
Regular Ashkenazi Jews are still lighter than Sardinians. As a matter of fact even Sicilians are slightly lighter than Sards.
And Lombards are lighter than Andalusians despite plotting below them.

[Jana]

This chart includes North Italians as a whole if I'm not mistaken, not only Venetians. Of course using Tuscans or Ligurians for North Italians Croats would be far northern.

Look at the pca plot the member Token posted, it's more accurate because it include Venetian populations separated from other North Italians.

Tuscans are always included as C.Italians, N.Italy sample is probably Bergamo. I'm aware NE Italians being more northern, but it isn't comparable with us.
There was this guy from Friuli that posted his gedmatch yesterday, he is close to Macedonians/Montenegrins from south slavs, and these groups are lot more southern than we are.


Regular Ashkenazi Jews are still lighter than Sardinians. As a matter of fact even Sicilians are slightly lighter than Sards.
And Lombards are lighter than Andalusians despite plotting below them.
Yes, but Sardinains have more European facial features. Light Jews still look very neolithic/Levantine.
For example Russians are more north than Scandinavians and indeed they are darker pigmented - but their features are less mediterranean than that of northern Germanics.

[JMack]

Tuscans are always included as C.Italians, N.Italy sample is probably Bergamo. I'm aware NE Italians being more northern, but it isn't comparable with us.
There was this guy from Friuli that posted his gedmatch yesterday, he is close to Macedonians/Montenegrins from south slavs, and these groups are lot more southern than we are.


Lombards (Bergamo is located in Lombardia) are significantly less northern than Venetians. But it doesn't mean that much, as Caviezel pointed, Southern Iberians plot North than Lombards but they are obviously darker than people from Lombardy.

[Jana]

Lombards (Bergamo is located in Lombardia) are significantly less northern than Venetians. But it doesn't mean that much, as Caviezel pointed, Southern Iberians plot North than Lombards but they are obviously darker than people from Lombardy.

are you sure ? Aren't Lombards close to southern French ?

[Token]

Regular Ashkenazi Jews are still lighter than Sardinians. As a matter of fact even Sicilians are slightly lighter than Sards.
And Lombards are lighter than Andalusians despite plotting below them.

Light traits are favoured by selection in colder and continental-shifted climates but the difference in complexion between Andalusians and Lombards is not blatant if you compare non-cherry-picked crowd pics from both places. Also, the mediterranenean hot climate of Andalusia certainly contributes to this difference, most dark Andalusians are in reality tanned and, according to recent studies, the skin-complexion of Iberians in non-exposed parts is comparable to Central Europeans.

[JMack]

are you sure ? Aren't Lombards close to southern French ?

I may be wrong but in most PCA plots I have seen Andalusians plot more northern than Lombards.

[JMack]

Light traits are favourable by selection in colder and continental-shifted climates but the difference in complexion between Andalusians and Lombards is not blatant if you compare non-cherry-picked crowd pics from both places. Also, the mediterranenean hot climate of Andalusia certainly contributes to this difference, most dark Andalusians are in reality tanned and, according to recent studies, the skin-complexion of Iberians in non-exposed parts is comparable to Central Europeans.

I agree with your general point, but I have been to both places and there are far more dark-haired and dark-eyed people even in Northern Spain than in Lombardy. But they plot above Lombards.

And according to Cristiano Viejo and other Spanish members Andalusians descend from Northern Spanish.

[Token]

I agree with your general point, but I have been to both places and there are far more dark-haired and dark-eyed people even in Northern Spain than in Lombardy. But they plot above Lombards.

Personal impression can be sometimes misleading but yes, most studies shows that light eyes and hair are more common in Northern Italy than in Iberia, excluding places like Galicia and others atlantic-bordering regions like Asturias and Cantabria, with a more continental-shifted climate. I believe that selection played a role in all this but the causes of blondism are still somewhat mysterious and need further research.

[Percivalle]

This chart includes North Italians as a whole if I'm not mistaken, not only Venetians. Of course using Tuscans or Ligurians for North Italians Croats would be far northern..

It doesn't exist a sample "as a whole", those are the HGDP samples (12 and 7 individuals, the most used samples in PCA and calculators) and that PCA is dictated by specific components; in fact it's study on genetic heritage of the Balto-Slavic, not on Europeans as whole.

[Sizzo]

It's your opinion and scholars don't care about it. You don't have nothing to back up your claims so you become hysteric and try to discredit me, typical behavior of Lombards in this forum.

Which scholars? Amateur posters from The Apricity? Are you serious, kid? If there's a hysteric here it's you because you're talking about non-sense based on random plots and personal thinking. You're very delusional if you think that the average Venetian is a nordoid: the average Venetian is Dinaric, often mixed with Med. strains, or is an Alpinoid. The Nordic element in the pure Venetian areas of Veneto is just a minority, deal with it. Where are Lombards in this forum, sorry? Do you really think that "Longobarda" is a real person? Poor you... Keep dreaming about a Nordic Veneto, troll. Probably this fantasy comes from the need of a revenge against NW Italians, that called Venetians "northern terroni". And this says all, hehehe...

[JMack]

It doesn't exist a sample "as a whole", those are the HGDP samples (12 and 7 individuals, the most used samples in PCA and calculators) and that PCA is dictated by specific components; in fact it's study on genetic heritage of the Balto-Slavic, not on Europeans as whole.

I'm aware of that fact, I was just pointing out that the sample was based mostly on other populations not only in ''Venetians''.

[Jana]

I'm aware of that fact, I was just pointing out that the sample was based mostly on other populations not only in ''Venetians''.

But nobody said that. Problem is you will never find Venetian sample in any scientific research (as far as I know)...

[Bobby Martnen]

Sudtirol is rightful Italian clay :):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Shepherd_Map_of_Ancient_Italy%2C_Northern_Part.jpg

I mean, I'm normally very sympathetic to Italian irredentism (i.e. I wouldn't mind Italy getting Nizza, Savoy, Corsica, and Istria back), but giving South Tyrol to Italy was a beyond obvious example of the winners of WWI shitting on the losers just because they could.

[Bobby Martnen]

It isn't really true, most of them look very Jewish. Hollywoods Askhenazi Jews are often mixed with northern Europeans, and people tend to think they're typical.
One thing is unusual though- red pigment is common among them for some reason.

This man is fully Ashkenazic

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/1f/6c/511f6cc0a3f8edee931e0d63a89d5c76--michael-bolton-michael-okeefe.jpg

Ironically, Ashkenazic Jews are probably half Levantine and half North Italian.

[Bobby Martnen]

By the way, I lived in Germany and being partly German myself, know these things.


What percent German are you? I'm a quarter

[Jana]

I mean, I'm normally very sympathetic to Italian irredentism (i.e. I wouldn't mind Italy getting Nizza, Savoy, Corsica, and Istria back), but giving South Tyrol to Italy was a beyond obvious example of the winners of WWI shitting on the losers just because they could.

Why should Italy get Istria, when majority of population in central and eastern Istria was Slavic since time of great migrations ?

I do agree they have right on western coast (Pula, Poreč, Rovinj) wich I don't even consider real Croatian lands. Italians were majority there until 1945.
However, there are lot of injustice in Europe regarding borders, and I don't see reason to give such small coastline to Italy, as there would certanly appear pressure to spread to east, just like in history.

It opens pandora box (what about Alsace, Transylvania, Galicia... ? ) and in 21st century there is no reason to change borders if minority populations cultural and political rights are respected.

[Jana]

This man is fully Ashkenazic

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/1f/6c/511f6cc0a3f8edee931e0d63a89d5c76--michael-bolton-michael-okeefe.jpg

Ironically, Ashkenazic Jews are probably half Levantine and half North Italian.

He can pass for fully British Isles man. Obviously not your everyday Askhenazi....


What percent German are you? I'm a quarter

In between 1/8 and 1/4, hard to say exactly.

[GiCa]

Alpine people.. French, Swiss north Italians, Austrians, Slovenian, Croats have many common things sharing an ethno cultural land

[caviezel]

eyes color in jewish school children in 1800s. Even assuming they were using metrics that overestimated the rate of light eyes, they were still lighter than many South Europeans.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5946-eye

Table No. 1.
Country. Number. Percentage. Observer.
_________________
Blue. Brown. Gray.
Germany 74,146 19.63 52.88 27.4 Virchow.
Austria 59,808 23.5 45.9 30.6 Schimmer.
Hungary 3,141 18.3 57.5 24.2 Körösi.
Bavaria 7,054 20.0 49.0 31.0 Mayr.
Württemberg 1,995 20.0 52.0 28.0 Frass.

[Columella]

I mean, I'm normally very sympathetic to Italian irredentism (i.e. I wouldn't mind Italy getting Nizza, Savoy, Corsica, and Istria back), but giving South Tyrol to Italy was a beyond obvious example of the winners of WWI shitting on the losers just because they could.

South Tyroleans/Alto Atesini are lucky people, they were just a province in the Austrian empire and are now a privileged region on Italy. They would never want to go back to Austria.

[Token]

Which scholars? Amateur posters from The Apricity? Are you serious, kid? If there's a hysteric here it's you because you're talking about non-sense based on random plots and personal thinking. You're very delusional if you think that the average Venetian is a nordoid: the average Venetian is Dinaric, often mixed with Med. strains, or is an Alpinoid. The Nordic element in the pure Venetian areas of Veneto is just a minority, deal with it. Where are Lombards in this forum, sorry? Do you really think that "Longobarda" is a real person? Poor you... Keep dreaming about a Nordic Veneto, troll. Probably this fantasy comes from the need of a revenge against NW Italians, that called Venetians "northern terroni". And this says all, hehehe...

If there's a northern terroni in Italy it is the wannabe-German Lombards. The rest of your post was just you again giving your baseless opinion and, even worse, using pseudo-science from the past century to prove your point. If you search for maps of blondism and light eyes, Venetians are always lighter than Lombards by a long margin with indexes comparable to Alpine Central European populations and this obviously reflects in their genetics, you can easily find Gedmatch kits of Venetians in the internet to see by yourself how they are much more northern-shifted than you.

[Bobby Martnen]

South Tyroleans/Alto Atesini are lucky people, they were just a province in the Austrian empire and are now a privileged region on Italy. They would never want to go back to Austria.

Not really. They've been bound to a nation that they have nothing in common with, kind of like Sudeten Germans in the Treaty of Versailles. That didn't end well for anyone involved...

[Bobby Martnen]

He can pass for fully British Isles man. Obviously not your everyday Askhenazi....

He is fully Ashkenazic, though. Three of his grandparents were Russian Jewish immigrants, and the other one was born in England to Russian Jewish parents.

[Longobarda]

The extreme north of Piedmont probably plot close to Swiss Italians.

The Walser are the speakers of the Walser German dialects, a variety of Highest Alemannic. They inhabit the Alps of Switzerland and Liechtenstein, as well as on the fringes of Italy and Austria. In Italy, there are nine communities that were settled by the Walser migration (and four others that originally were, but where Walser German is not spoken any more). These are: Gressoney-La-Trinité, Gressoney-Saint-Jean and Issime (Lys Valley, in the Aosta Valley); Formazza, Macugnaga (Verbano-Cusio-Ossola province); Alagna Valsesia, Rima San Giuseppe, Rimella (Sesia Valley or Valsesia, in Vercelli province).

In 1882 Professor Arturo Galanti had ventured the figure of 100,000 German inhabitants in the foothills from Piedmont to Friuli (excluding Trentino Alto Adige not yet part of Italy), a number that is in no way justified by the alleged sporadic immigration of medieval settlers and miners, but assumed a more ancient presence.In the years 1180 to 1318 at least 28 of 36 mayors of Conegliano Veneto were of German origin.

[Sizzo]

If there's a northern terroni in Italy it is the wannabe-German Lombards. The rest of your post was just you again giving your baseless opinion and, even worse, using pseudo-science from the past century to prove your point. If you search for maps of blondism and light eyes, Venetians are always lighter than Lombards by a long margin with indexes comparable to Alpine Central European populations and this obviously reflects in their genetics, you can easily find Gedmatch kits of Venetians in the internet to see by yourself how they are much more northern-shifted than you.

Wannabe-German Lombards? Again with the fake of Longobarda? Haha! They are usually Venetians the ones who try desperately to connect themselves to Mitteleuropa, not for sure us Lombardians. I know Venetians who think they are Germans, Slavics, Celtics or even Baltics, despite the fact that Venetics were an ancient Italic tribe and that Germanic-Nordic admixture is not important also in Veneto. Unless we consider Cymbrians, Mochenes, South Tyroleans and other Germanic/Slavic minorities from Triveneto. If Lombardy is more EEF, Venetia is more Caucasus/West Asian, don't forget this fact, because you're near the Balkans.
A Venetian who consider himself as a Central European is just a self-hater; you could be more towards Austria than Campania or Apulia, but for sure you are closer to NW Italians than Austria, Slovenia or Germany. Deal with it.

https://i.imgur.com/tTHFiF7.jpg

Plot from K15.

[Longobarda]

Forgot to mention Baltic Germans/aka Prussians - they are genetically largerly native to east baltic region with dominant haplogrups like N1c and R1a.....add that to German diversity + Volga Germans and Danube Swabians, Transylvanian Saxons - now all living in Germany, and having large admixture from host population in regions they lived prior to ww2.

69770
R1a Haplogroup in Germany and Austria

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69770&d=1510609523

[Token]

Wannabe-German Lombards? Again with the fake of Longobarda? Haha! They are usually Venetians the ones who try desperately to connect themselves to Mitteleuropa, not for sure us Lombardians. I know Venetians who think they are Germans, Slavics, Celtics or even Baltics, despite the fact that Venetics were an ancient Italic tribe and that Germanic-Nordic admixture is not important also in Veneto. Unless we consider Cymbrians, Mochenes, South Tyroleans and other Germanic/Slavic minorities from Triveneto. If Lombardy is more EEF, Venetia is more Caucasus/West Asian, don't forget this fact, because you're near the Balkans.
A Venetian who consider himself as a Central European is just a self-hater; you could be more towards Austria than Campania or Apulia, but for sure you are closer to NW Italians than Austria, Slovenia or Germany. Deal with it.

Plot from K15.
Who stated that Venetians are northern-shifted due to Germanic admixture? They certainly have it but what really shifts them towards Central Europe are the high levels of generic Yamnaya-like ancestry brought by Proto-Italic speakers, that entered the peninsula during the Bronze Age from the east of the Alps, and peaks in the northeast in the case of Italy (which makes perfect sense), i already repeated this 2x for you in this same thread and you still can't grasp it. And why you are referring myself as Venetian? Can't you read the description below my avatar or you have some sort of memory impairment?
By the way, nice self-made biased and clearly inaccurate plot map. :thumb001:

[caviezel]

Wannabe-German Lombards? Again with the fake of Longobarda? Haha! They are usually Venetians the ones who try desperately to connect themselves to Mitteleuropa, not for sure us Lombardians. I know Venetians who think they are Germans, Slavics, Celtics or even Baltics, despite the fact that Venetics were an ancient Italic tribe and that Germanic-Nordic admixture is not important also in Veneto. Unless we consider Cymbrians, Mochenes, South Tyroleans and other Germanic/Slavic minorities from Triveneto. If Lombardy is more EEF, Venetia is more Caucasus/West Asian, don't forget this fact, because you're near the Balkans.
A Venetian who consider himself as a Central European is just a self-hater; you could be more towards Austria than Campania or Apulia, but for sure you are closer to NW Italians than Austria, Slovenia or Germany. Deal with it.

https://i.imgur.com/tTHFiF7.jpg

Plot from K15.

the cimbric dialect was pretty much extint in late 1800s except for a part of the people in Roana and Selva di Progno.

[Longobarda]

Lombards (Bergamo is located in Lombardia) are significantly less northern than Venetians. But it doesn't mean that much, as Caviezel pointed, Southern Iberians plot North than Lombards but they are obviously darker than people from Lombardy.

This is why I wonder where they take the samples of DNA and to whom they did take in Southern Spain. In some beach full of tourists probably........

[Tooting Carmen]

I think the difference is that Spaniards (regardless of region) have less West Asian/Caucasus than do even Northern Italians, but at the same time have just as much if not more Mediterranean mixture than the latter.

[Longobarda]

Which scholars? Amateur posters from The Apricity? Are you serious, kid? If there's a hysteric here it's you because you're talking about non-sense based on random plots and personal thinking. You're very delusional if you think that the average Venetian is a nordoid: the average Venetian is Dinaric, often mixed with Med. strains, or is an Alpinoid. The Nordic element in the pure Venetian areas of Veneto is just a minority, deal with it. Where are Lombards in this forum, sorry? Do you really think that "Longobarda" is a real person? Poor you... Keep dreaming about a Nordic Veneto, troll. Probably this fantasy comes from the need of a revenge against NW Italians, that called Venetians "northern terroni". And this says all, hehehe...

Mi complimento con te per la tua stronzaggine oltre che per dubitare della mia persona. Io non sono abituata a usare volgari trucchi per sembrare qualcun altro. Se sei malpensato è perché TU usi questi sistemi. Se fin ora sono stata relativamente calma, d'ora in poi dirò ancora di più quel che penso e del tuo negazionismo riguardo le origini o le connessioni con le popolazioni che di volta in volta ci hanno "occupato" rendendoci quel che siamo.

[Sizzo]

Who stated that Venetians are northern-shifted due to Germanic admixture? They certainly have it but what really shifts them towards Central Europe are the high levels of generic Yamnaya-like ancestry brought by Proto-Italic speakers, that entered the peninsula during the Bronze Age from the east of the Alps, and peaks in the northeast in the case of Italy (which makes perfect sense), i already repeated this 2x for you in this same thread and you still can't grasp it. And why you are referring myself as Venetian? Can't you read the description below my avatar or you have some sort of memory impairment?
By the way, nice self-made biased and clearly inaccurate plot map. :thumb001:

You are clearly a poor troll, dear Token. You could be everything since you're just a troll, but if you insist with your pathetic lies about Venetians means that you have some legacy with Veneto, it's obvious. Below your avatar you can write what you want but doesn't mean it's the reality. Or you're insane or you're an impostor, it's simple: saying that there is more distance between NW Italians and NE Italians than to S.Germans and N.Germans is simply demential, but since you're for sure a self-hating mongrel (or euro-mutt) makes perfect sense: you need to blame NW Italians in order to exalt Venetians, hehehe...
Hey dude, that map it's not mine but since we're talking about amateur plots (like yours) has the same value; even better, is for sure more reliable.

Keep dreaming about a Central European Venetia (a Cisalpine region watered by the Adriatic sea, and clearly distinguished, in every fields, from Germanic and Slavic world, except a handful of mixed mountaneers). Only a moron could think that Bergamo-Brescia are southern Europe while Verona, Padova and Rovigo are Central Europe.

[Sizzo]

Mi complimento con te per la tua stronzaggine oltre che per dubitare della mia persona. Io non sono abituata a usare volgari trucchi per sembrare qualcun altro. Se sei malpensato è perché TU usi questi sistemi. Se fin ora sono stata relativamente calma, d'ora in poi dirò ancora di più quel che penso e del tuo negazionismo riguardo le origini o le connessioni con le popolazioni che di volta in volta ci hanno "occupato" rendendoci quel che siamo.

Stronzaggine? Vuoi farmi credere che tu sia quella in foto? Ma fammi il favore... Paradossalmente lo spererei fossi davvero tu quella, perché mettere una foto a cazzo di una che non c'entra nulla sarebbe inqualificabile (visti gli insulti che ti tirano dietro). Oltretutto i pollici giù o su vanno in base a come ti svegli al mattino, noto.

[Sizzo]

Ah, Longobabba: piantala con le tue favole nordicistiche tipiche dell'insicuro babbeo che odia sé stesso. I Nord Italiani sono Nord Italiani, punto. Non abbiamo nessun bisogno di fingerci europei centro-settentrionali come banalissimi wannabe. C'è poco da sfottere gli Iberici che si credono irlandesi o britannici se ci sono Nord Italiani (?) come te e come altri fenomeni qui sopra che, allo stesso tempo, si credono più celto-germanici dei Fiamminghi.

[alnortedelsur]

Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than all South Europeans but they plot a lot more South.

LOL

[Token]

You are clearly a poor troll, dear Token. You could be everything since you're just a troll, but if you insist with your pathetic lies about Venetians means that you have some legacy with Veneto, it's obvious. Below your avatar you can write what you want but doesn't mean it's the reality. Or you're insane or you're an impostor, it's simple: saying that there is more distance between NW Italians and NE Italians than to S.Germans and N.Germans is simply demential, but since you're for sure a self-hating mongrel (or euro-mutt) makes perfect sense: you need to blame NW Italians in order to exalt Venetians, hehehe...
Hey dude, that map it's not mine but since we're talking about amateur plots (like yours) has the same value; even better, is for sure more reliable.

Keep dreaming about a Central European Venetia (a Cisalpine region watered by the Adriatic sea, and clearly distinguished, in every fields, from Germanic and Slavic world, except a handful of mixed mountaneers). Only a moron could think that Bergamo-Brescia are southern Europe while Verona, Padova and Rovigo are Central Europe.

You certainly talk like a legitimate terrone, using ad-hominem arguments to try to discredit me and, like always, just saying how absurd is the fact that NE Italians are further from their western counterparts than North Germans are from their southern ones without showing anything concrete that really contradicts my statements besides your dumb opinion. I'm not a wog hot-blooded hysteric Italian like you, i work with facts. The only mongrel here is you, with this huge and deplorable West Asian ancestry, bow down before your Venetian Italic masters.

[Longobarda]

Something that should clarify the venetan connections with very northern Europe

69775

AMBER ROAD

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69775&d=1510613144

69776

AMBER ROADS

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69776&d=1510613145

[alnortedelsur]

This is why I wonder where they take the samples of DNA and to whom they did take in Southern Spain. In some beach full of tourists probably........

Spaniards plot northern than your people. Deal with it and go back to Italic roots.

[Longobarda]

Ah, Longobabba: piantala con le tue favole nordicistiche tipiche dell'insicuro babbeo che odia sé stesso. I Nord Italiani sono Nord Italiani, punto. Non abbiamo nessun bisogno di fingerci europei centro-settentrionali come banalissimi wannabe. C'è poco da sfottere gli Iberici che si credono irlandesi o britannici se ci sono Nord Italiani (?) come te e come altri fenomeni qui sopra che, allo stesso tempo, si credono più celto-germanici dei Fiamminghi.

Senti rimbambito, la differenza tra me e te è che io non sono regionalista ma mi attengo ai fatti ed alla storia. Tu farnetichi improbabili razze pure lombarde che non esistono, dato che siamo stati invasi da tutti, escluse le cavallette.
Io non sono wannabe di niente, ma tu sei passato dall'essere leghista all'essere fanatico degli antichi romani e ti da molto fastidio che io tiri in ballo chi e quanti hanno formato la nostra discendenza. E datti una regolata e leggi la storia della nostra regione prima di blaterare.

[Longobarda]

Spaniards plot northern than your people. Deal with it and go back to Italic roots.

This is what is ridiculous. I guess to whom they took the DNA samples...... to tourists in the beaches? Hahahahah IMBROGLIONI I know you my dear FAKE venezuelan

p.s. never seen Italic roots that YOU Always mention

[Sizzo]

You certainly talk like a legitimate terrone, using ad-hominem arguments to try to unbalance me and, like always, just saying how absurd is the fact that NE Italians are further from their western counterparts than North Germans are from their southern ones without showing anything concrete that really contradicts my statements besides your dumb opinion. I'm not a wog hot-blooded hysteric Italian like you, i work with facts. The only mongrel here is you, with this huge and deplorable West Asian ancestry, bow down before your Venetian Italic masters.

Your statements are based on an amateur plot made by Apricity users with 2 lines made by you with Paint. That's all. The rest is just your personal paranoia that everybody here have laughed at.
The northern terrone it's you, because you need fairy tales for justify the Stockholm syndrome of Venetian separatists towards Austria. Real Venetian patriots feel Italians and not Central European wannabes. The other words are only bullshit, typical of a poor self-hating child like you. And, no: I'm less West Asian than the average Venetian, who has usually a lot of Caucasus. On the other hand Venetian language is not even Gallo-Italic, is in between Gallo-Italic and Eastern Romance languages like Tuscan, Romanesco and Neapolitan. In fact it's not classified in the same category of Lombardian.

Venetian Italic masters haha. You're also a bad comedian.

[MinervaItalica]

Token is just hilarious :lol:

:pop2:

Shit 24 pages already. Good job Odin...

[caviezel]

LOL

did you see the link I provided? feel free to find something else that disprove it because your LOL is not enough lol!

[alnortedelsur]

This is what is ridiculous. I guess to whom they took the DNA samples...... to tourists in the beaches? Hahahahah IMBROGLIONI I know you

Explain that to the Iberian members who got tested, and whose location on PCA maps is more northern than Italians, and where Iberians are supposed to plot.

I'm not even full Spanish, and I plot with or around Northern or Central Italians in most PCA maps, depending on the calculator.

If I was full Spanish I would plot further north.

[Sizzo]

Senti rimbambito, la differenza tra me e te è che io non sono regionalista ma mi attengo ai fatti ed alla storia. Tu farnetichi improbabili razze pure lombarde che non esistono, dato che siamo stati invasi da tutti, escluse le cavallette.
Io non sono wannabe di niente, ma tu sei passato dall'essere leghista all'essere fanatico degli antichi romani e ti da molto fastidio che io tiri in ballo chi e quanti hanno formato la nostra discendenza. E datti una regolata e leggi la storia della nostra regione prima di blaterare.

Ascolta, cogliona/e: la differenza è che io esisto, tu sei una macchietta di Apricity. Io non sono mai stato leghista e non sono fanatico di nessuno, men che meno degli antichi Romani. Io dico la realtà dei fatti, e i Longobardi in Nord Italia (che oltretutto erano già mescolati per conto loro, non certo germanici puri), al di là di qualche linea genetica non han lasciato nulla di concreto essendo giusto una minoranza per lo più costituita da ceto dirigente. Se siamo diversi dal Centro-Sud Italia è perché noi siamo europei sudoccidentali grazie ad un Neolitico più continentale e perché abbiamo un importante sostrato celtico/gallico, mentre il Centro-Sud è meno Steppe-like e soprattutto ha una storia neolitica/calcolitica/bronzo diversa dalla nostra. Non certo perché il Nord è Germania meridionale e il Sud Arabia cristiana.
La regolata dattela tu, con le tue stronzate contraddette dalla genetica.

[alnortedelsur]

did you see the link I provided? feel free to find something else that disprove it because your LOL is not enough lol!

I LOL at your comment about ALL Ashkenazim Jews being lighter than ALL south Europeans. Not true.

[Smeagol]

This is just another exaggeration, they are not lighter than all South Europeans, but they are surely lighter than their plot would suggest.

Actually it is true. Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than predominantly brunet pigmented Southern Europeans.

In countries where the Gentiles are predominantly blond, or more blond than brunet, the Jews are relatively dark; in countries such as Rumania where the Gentiles are prevailingly brunet, the Jews are blonder than the Gentiles. The Jews have, therefore, struck a pigment balance which is as constant as their balance in head form.
(Coon, 1939)

[Longobarda]

Stronzaggine? Vuoi farmi credere che tu sia quella in foto? Ma fammi il favore... Paradossalmente lo spererei fossi davvero tu quella, perché mettere una foto a cazzo di una che non c'entra nulla sarebbe inqualificabile (visti gli insulti che ti tirano dietro). Oltretutto i pollici giù o su vanno in base a come ti svegli al mattino, noto.

Ah no? E perché mai non dovrei essere quella nella foto? Io sono diretta e sempre sincera, non uso trucchetti stupidi come certa gente di questo forum. Ed ho anche pubblicato altre foto mie, in un thread dove chiedevo di "classificarmi". Se tu non le hai viste too bad. Erano comunque di quando ero giovane e persino neonata.
Vai a quel paese, gli insulti che mi tirano dietro sono di gentaglia che si incazza perché gli faccio vedere qual è la LORO realtà che vorrebbero far vedere al mondo diversa. Me ne frego altamente dei pollici giù o degli insulti. So che io ho ragione e loro sono ingannevoli. Come te che non accetti che siamo stati invasi dal mondo intero.

[caviezel]

I LOL at your comment about ALL Ashkenazim Jews being lighter than ALL south Europeans. Not true.
they are lighter than all South European ethnicities (including Slovenians) as a median.

[Sizzo]

Ah no? E perché mai non dovrei essere quella nella foto? Io sono diretta e sempre sincera, non uso trucchetti stupidi come certa gente di questo forum. Ed ho anche pubblicato altre foto mie, in un thread dove chiedevo di "classificarmi". Se tu non le hai viste too bad. Erano comunque di quando ero giovane e persino neonata.
Vai a quel paese, gli insulti che mi tirano dietro sono di gentaglia che si incazza perché gli faccio vedere qual è la LORO realtà che vorrebbero far vedere al mondo diversa. Me ne frego altamente dei pollici giù o degli insulti. So che io ho ragione e loro sono ingannevoli. Come te che non accetti che siamo stati invasi dal mondo intero.

"Come te che non accetti che siamo stati invasi dal mondo intero"

Il più tipico dei troll anti-italiani. Se involontariamente, peggio ancora.

[Percivalle]

Actually it is true. Ashkenazi Jews are lighter than predominantly brunet pigmented Southern Europeans.

(Coon, 1939)

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4918882/1/

[Smeagol]

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4918882/1/

I'm banned from Anthroscape, I don't see the topic.

[Longobarda]

Explain that to the Iberian members who got tested, and whose location on PCA maps is more northern than Italians, and where Iberians are supposed to plot.

I'm not even full Spanish, and I plot with or around Northern or Central Italians in most PCA maps, depending on the calculator.

If I was full Spanish I would plot further north.

If the samples were from true spanish (not amixed with germans or british as in these last years happens), that means that these PLOTS are a big SHIT. How can an Andalusian plot northener than a Lombard when in Andalusia they have 7% SSA and in all northern Italy we have 0% SSA? Explain first this. And how can Cantabria plot northerner than northern Italy when they have 18% SSA and we have 0%? Idem GALICIA that you think is so "british". All Spain in Whole has 7% SSA wich in Italy we find ONLY IN SICILY.

[Longobarda]

"Come te che non accetti che siamo stati invasi dal mondo intero"

Il più tipico dei troll anti-italiani. Se involontariamente, peggio ancora.

Hehe il fatto è che noi siamo stati invasi da quelli BUONI ..... tu sei un anti-italiano, non io

[alnortedelsur]

If the samples were from true spanish (not amixed with germans or british as in these last years happens), that means that these PLOTS are a big SHIT. How can an Andalusian plot northener than a Lombard when in Andalusia they have 7% SSA and in all northern Italy we have 0% SSA? Explain first this. And how can Cantabria plot northerner than northern Italy when they have 18% SSA and we have 0%? Idem GALICIA that you think is so "british". All Spain in Whole has 7% SSA wich in Italy we find ONLY IN SICILY.

From where did you get those SSA percentages. From the deepness of your ass??

You're full of shit, and your post is not even worth to be responded.

[JMack]

If the samples were from true spanish (not amixed with germans or british as in these last years happens), that means that these PLOTS are a big SHIT. How can an Andalusian plot northener than a Lombard when in Andalusia they have 7% SSA and in all northern Italy we have 0% SSA? Explain first this. And how can Cantabria plot northerner than northern Italy when they have 18% SSA and we have 0%? Idem GALICIA that you think is so "british". All Spain in Whole has 7% SSA wich in Italy we find ONLY IN SICILY.

I agree Lombards look lighter than Andalusians but no Spaniards have more than 1-2% SSA. 18% SSA would be enough to make them look like Mauritanians, lol.

[alnortedelsur]

I agree Lombards look lighter than Andalusians but no Spaniards have more than 1-2% SSA. 18% SSA would be enough to make them look like Mauritanians, lol.

The next thing left to read from that idiot is to say that average Spaniards look like average triracial Venezuelans (like Hugo Chavez or something like that).

[Token]

Your statements are based on an amateur plot made by Apricity users with 2 lines made by you with Paint. That's all. The rest is just your personal paranoia that everybody here have laughed at.
I used a graphic representation for users that don't know nothing about genetics, like you, understand what i'm saying. If you want so much a true academic source, here's a good beginning for you but, considering your laughable intelligence, i doubt you will understand something: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2015/02/10/013433.full.pdf


The northern terrone it's you, because you need fairy tales for justify the Stockholm syndrome of Venetian separatists towards Austria. Real Venetian patriots feel Italians and not Central European wannabes. The other words are only bullshit, typical of a poor self-hating child like you. And, no: I'm less West Asian than the average Venetian, who has usually a lot of Caucasus. On the other hand Venetian language is not even Gallo-Italic, is in between Gallo-Italic and Eastern Romance languages like Tuscan, Romanesco and Neapolitan. In fact it's not classified in the same category of Lombardian.
Venetians are akin to us, Germans, not wogs like you and your kind, and are the ones who received the greatest influx of Indo-European ancestry in all Italy. Your linguistic arguments doesn't means nothing, where i said that Venetian is Gallo-Italic? And what a big deal that Lombard is one, you're still more Neolithic than them speaking a hybrid language imposed in your people.

[Jana]

they are lighter than all South European ethnicities (including Slovenians) as a median.

:lol:

are you serious ?
Ethnic Slovenes are like 10X lighter pigmented than Askhenazis. European Jews are on pair with central Italians, at best.

[Jana]

If the samples were from true spanish (not amixed with germans or british as in these last years happens), that means that these PLOTS are a big SHIT. How can an Andalusian plot northener than a Lombard when in Andalusia they have 7% SSA and in all northern Italy we have 0% SSA? Explain first this. And how can Cantabria plot northerner than northern Italy when they have 18% SSA and we have 0%? Idem GALICIA that you think is so "british". All Spain in Whole has 7% SSA wich in Italy we find ONLY IN SICILY.

Iberian peninusla has more mesolithic European ancestry than Italic peninsula, and that's the reason they plot northern.
18% SSA ????

wtf ?

There is few percent of north african admixture in Iberia already from neolithic times. Yes, Italy don't have that. But it has more neolithic ancestry that pulls them further south.

[Longobarda]

I agree Lombards look lighter than Andalusians but no Spaniards have more than 1-2% SSA. 18% SSA would be enough to make them look like Mauritanians, lol.

Sorry, not SSA but North African (even if in Cantabria and Galicia they have also SSA). I found it in a scientific paper (unfortunately I don't remenber which one). And as far as we were talking before, sometimes the feature of a person does not reflect his DNA. But yes, as one that has been living in Spain, I can say without any doubt that many of them look very very dark and with non european features, Others look like average Southern europeans. Never seen nordic types, but maybe that I had not that luck in 5 years.

[Longobarda]

Iberian peninusla has more mesolithic European ancestry than Italic peninsula, and that's the reason they plot northern.
18% SSA ????

wtf ?

There is few percent of north african admixture in Iberia already from neolithic times. Yes, Italy don't have that. But it has more neolithic ancestry that pulls them further south.

No I made a mistake. Those percentages are relevant to North African admisture not to SSA (even if they have in their northern regions)

[Longobarda]

The next thing left to read from that idiot is to say that average Spaniards look like average triracial Venezuelans (like Hugo Chavez or something like that).

The idiot fake venezuelan does not understand that Hugo Chavez could be never taken for an european. O piensas que sean todos imbeciles en el mundo y tu la sola lista?