Greeks with Slavic Ancestry and Without

[firemonkey]

I
I’ve been looking at some European genotype data. So I have some samples from Greece. One of the things I noticed is that there seem to be two clusters of Greece. You can see it above. The Italian sample is really a southern Italian one (not Sicilian though). The Balkan sample are Serbs, Bulgarians, and Romanians. You can see that they are shifted toward the Poles. And so are the Greeks, in comparison to the Italians. This is not entirely surprising. What was surprising to me was that there were a number of Greeks who in the same cluster at the Italians.


http://www.unz.com/gnxp/greeks-with-slavic-ancestry-and-without/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=greeks-with-slavic-ancestry-and-without

[wvwvw]

Nonsense written by a Pakistani -totally amateur- blogger

[wvwvw]

Imperial Byzantine Policy Towards The Slavs And Its Effects

This article presents some of the methods the Byzantine state used to Control the expansion of the Slavic population from their appearance in the Balkans in the 7th century until the fall of Constantinople to the Franks in 1204.

This is the most important period, since many claim that the Slavs mixed with the Greek population in that particular period. This is not true as one can easily see, since the Slavs throughout this period were contained (seggregated) by the Byzantines in self-governing areas called “sklaveniai.” The Slavs’ expansion and unrest were usually controlled by force, but a few times the Slavs were transferred to Asia Minor to make them assimilate with the Greek population there and to avoid the errosion of the Greek population in Europe. It is known that after Vassilios II (Basil II) the Bulgarian kingdom was never a serious threat to the Byzantine empire; the same applies to the period after 1204. Therefore, we can see that the Byzantines managed very carefully the invasions of the Slavs and their integration within the Empire.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?88091-Imperial-Byzantine-Policy-Towards-The-Slavs-And-Its-Effects

[wvwvw]

Lol @ Greeks swifting towards the Poles. Tuscans just the Northern Greeks, also shift more North compared to Southern Italians towards Germany. Greeks being more East they shift towards the Poles. Still both cluster away from any Slavic or German clusters.

This is as much 'surprising' as is the 'shifting' of Tuscans toward Germans.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The Greeks are ugly wogs like Tsipras, who would want to mix with them? :coffee:

[wvwvw]

The Greeks are ugly wogs like Tsipras, who would want to mix with them? :coffee:

Better than Gruevski. :D

[poiuytrewq0987]

Better than Gruevski. :D

There have never been any recorded mass mixings of Greeks with either Slavs, Turks or other ethnicities. Greeks may have mixed with the occassional Slav, we may have assimilated some Slavic tribe here and there, but always the Greek populations have been much bigger, and their assimilation into the great greek pole was a drop in the ocean. There is no country and no nations that have not mixed a bit with other populations.

Who cares if some Greeks have Slavic blood? We don't want you. :picard1: You're the bitches of the West and Turkey. :coffee:

[wvwvw]

Who cares if some Greeks have Slavic blood? We don't want you. :picard1: You're the bitches of the West and Turkey. :coffee:

You are the bitches of Albania and Isis, AND Turkey's. iTurkey is your best ally, Turkey Is funding your political parties, Turkey is building mosques and recruiting Muslims for isis.

We are nobody's bitches nor do we want fake friendships with phony third world 'Slavic' mickey mouse countries supporters of Turkey.

So worry instead how much other Slavs want you, to them Bulgaria and Gypsies is a synonymous word.

[wvwvw]

Who cares if some Greeks have Slavic blood? We don't want you. :picard1: You're the bitches of the West and Turkey. :coffee:

If you don't want us then prove it with actions. Rather than claiming Greek ancestry and assimilation of Greeks into your pseudo-Ethnicity be proud of your Slavic ancestry and history. Even Albanians have more pride than you.

Claiming the history and cultural heritage of another people, just on the assumption you may have mixed with them, is as retarded as it would be for Germans to claim the cultural heritage of Poland on the assumption they must have mixed with them.

In the wider European context all ethnicities have mixed a bit, but not enough to alter their demography and Greece is no exception. If it ok for you to claim the Greek cultural heritage, we might as well claim the cultural heritage of Bulgarians, Slavs, Venetians, Franks, Ottomans and everyone else who passed from Greece.

[Prism]

The Greeks are ugly wogs like Tsipras, who would want to mix with them? :coffee:

Edit.

[i'llseeyouinhell]

You are the bitches of Albania and Isis, AND Turkey's. iTurkey is your best ally, Turkey Is funding your political parties, Turkey is building mosques and recruiting Muslims for isis.

We are nobody's bitches nor do we want fake friendships with phony third world 'Slavic' mickey mouse countries supporters of Turkey.

So worry instead how much other Slavs want you, to them Bulgaria and Gypsies is a synonymous word.

I think you are retarded :D

[wvwvw]

I think you are retarded :D

It is a known fact that Turkey supports wahabist Islam in Balkans and Europe. Most isis recruits in Europe come from Turkish mosques.

Although Turkey promotes secularism inside Turkey it promotes Islamism and Jihadism outside its borders. This was already happening even before Erdogan came to power, and is consistent with Turkish foreign policy.

[poiuytrewq0987]

You are the bitches of Albania and Isis, AND Turkey's. iTurkey is your best ally, Turkey Is funding your political parties, Turkey is building mosques and recruiting Muslims for isis.

We are nobody's bitches nor do we want fake friendships with phony third world 'Slavic' mickey mouse countries supporters of Turkey.

So worry instead how much other Slavs want you, to them Bulgaria and Gypsies is a synonymous word.

Well, I don't think so. Bulgaria is in a great place right now while Greece is going nowhere. The next 30-50 years will be about Greece trying to fix her finances. You are at the mercy of the West and Turkey now. Sorry... :shrug:

[poiuytrewq0987]

If you don't want us then prove it with actions. Rather than claiming Greek ancestry and assimilation of Greeks into your pseudo-Ethnicity be proud of your Slavic ancestry and history. Even Albanians have more pride than you.

Claiming the history and cultural heritage of another people, just on the assumption you may have mixed with them, is as retarded as it would be for Germans to claim the cultural heritage of Poland on the assumption they must have mixed with them.

In the wider European context all ethnicities have mixed a bit, but not enough to alter their demography and Greece is no exception. If it ok for you to claim the Greek cultural heritage, we might as well claim the cultural heritage of Bulgarians, Slavs, Venetians, Franks, Ottomans and everyone else who passed from Greece.

We assimilated large numbers of Greeks/Balkanoids/Mediterranids/Thracians/Southern Europeans, that is an indisputable genetic fact. However, it means nothing to me personally. We are Slavs. The Germans aren't exactly fretting over large numbers of Germans having partial Celtic/South Central European ancestry. Why should we? It only means we conquered you. :thumbs

[i'llseeyouinhell]

It is a known fact that Turkey supports wahabist Islam in Balkans and Europe. Most isis recruits in Europe come from Turkish mosques.

Although Turkey promotes secularism inside Turkey it promotes Islamism and Jihadism outside its borders. This was already happening even before Erdogan came to power, and is consistent with Turkish foreign policy.

Yeah our foreign policy is shit but you are too dumb and ignorant to beileve that we support isis they aren't even muslim we just don't care kurds (pkk,ypg) kill isis and isis kill kurds it's ok for us the only thing that we care about the Turkmens there and our borders security

I was talking about that actually :D

''We are nobody's bitches nor do we want fake friendships with phony third world 'Slavic' mickey mouse countries supporters of Turkey.

So worry instead how much other Slavs want you, to them Bulgaria and Gypsies is a synonymous word.''

[wvwvw]

Yeah our foreign policy is shit but you are too dumb and ignorant to beileve that we support isis they aren't even muslim we just don't care kurds (pkk,ypg) kill isis and isis kill kurds it's ok for us the only thing that we care about the Turkmens there and our borders security

''We are nobody's bitches nor do we want fake friendships with phony third world 'Slavic' mickey mouse countries supporters of Turkey.

So worry instead how much other Slavs want you, to them Bulgaria and Gypsies is a synonymous word.''



Well we aren't Turkey's bitches for sure ;)

Despite Greece's economic problems (Greece is far from alone in this) it still has far more say than Fyrom which is at the mercy of Albania, Bulgaria and Turkey. And Greece's (Greece being #1 investor in Fyrom)

[poiuytrewq0987]

Well we aren't Turkey's bitches for sure ;)

Despite Greece's economic problems (Greece is far from alone in this) it still has far more say than Fyrom which is at the mercy of Albania, Bulgaria and Turkey.

Up to 60% of Greece GDP is all public sector... so I'm not so sure you're that better off anyway.


The bloated and inefficient Greek state accounted for a stunning 59 percent of the nation’s GDP in 2013.
http://time.com/3980384/germany-europe-greece-crisis/

:shy:

[purple]

Greeks have the self-isteem of world leaders. Haven't been so since the Ottomans came.

[wvwvw]

Greeks have the self-isteem of world leaders. Haven't been so since the Ottomans came.


dralos, I hope you're just trolling, because you obviously do not know anything about Socialist Bulgaria. I am sorry, but you cannot compare your regime with ours, as you cannot compare EU with before. And since you don't know anything about what was then, please don't spread bullshit and lies. That's like me speaking about Albania and Hodxa or whatever his name was. I never was there, so I don't speak.

Albanian speaking about Bulgaria, when obviously his country is 100x worse than ours in economic sense :picard2:
Sure, Bulgaria is bad and shit and stuff, but we don't go on speaking about how it was in Albania before 30 years. Sick and tired of people trying to tell me how a certain system is better than another because they saw it on TV and read it in the news.

May I use your own words and say Bulgarian speaking about Greece, when obviously her country is 100x worse than ours :rolleyes:

Greece IS leader in the Balkans, it has the best army in the whole region, and is the #1 investor in Albania,Bulgaria and Fyrom.

[poiuytrewq0987]

May I use your own words and say Bulgarian speaking about Greece, when obviously her country is 100x worse than ours :rolleyes:

Greece IS leader in the Balkans, it has the best army in the whole region, and is the #1 investor in Albania,Bulgaria and Fyrom.

You mean the Greeks have been buying military equipment and investing in other countries with borrowed money. :wink

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/773680/773680,1312934606,1/stock-photo-greece-euro-credit-card-82514854.jpg

[wvwvw]

You mean the Greeks have been buying military equipment and investing in other countries with borrowed money. :wink

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/773680/773680,1312934606,1/stock-photo-greece-euro-credit-card-82514854.jpg

Greece's borrowing before the crisis was below the EU average. The whole world lives in fact on borrowed money, Netherlands, Belgium's, Italy's USA's debts are unsustainable. Virtually every Western country lives on borrowed money, and they are not growing enough to pay back the interests of their loans. It is also agreed by top economists, that these countries will have to default. Greece is simply the top of the iceberg, and part of her problems have to do with the faulty design of the monetary union.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Greece's borrowing before the crisis was below the EU average. The whole world lives in fact on borrowed money, Netherlands, Belgium's, Italy's USA's debt and virtually every Western country lives on borrowed money, and they are not growing enough to pay back the interests of their loans. It is also agreed by top economists, that these country will have to default. Greece is simply the top of the iceberg, and part of her problems have to do with the faulty design of the monetaru union.

That's not true. Greece was running a budget deficit as high as 8% since the 1990s. The difference is other countries didn't just keep on borrowing.

Government Budget in Greece averaged -7.19 percent of GDP from 1995 until 2014, reaching an all time high of -3.20 percent of GDP in 1999 and a record low of -15.70 percent of GDP in 2009. Government Budget in Greece is reported by the Eurostat.


http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/government-budget

[wvwvw]

That's not true. Greece was running a budget deficit as high as 8% since the 1990s. The difference is other countries didn't just keep on borrowing.

Government Budget in Greece averaged -7.19 percent of GDP from 1995 until 2014, reaching an all time high of -3.20 percent of GDP in 1999 and a record low of -15.70 percent of GDP in 2009. Government Budget in Greece is reported by the Eurostat.


http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/government-budget

Throughout the 90's Germany was running deficits, so much that it had earned the name "the sick man of Europe"

This very moment Spain is running a deficit of 5%

It was not just the borrowing that caused the crisis, but also the fact that Greece (but also other countries) was trapped inside the Euro, no longer being able to devalue its currency, (these not being the only reasons)

Before joining the Euro, Italy was running surpluses and so did Spain. Germany on the other hand was stuck in deficits. That changed as soon as they joined the Euro, Germany's budget surpluses all the sudden skyrocketed and S.Europe's plummeted. Even Finland lost 10% of its GDP since it joined the Euro although her borrowing costs are minimum.

Germany is strong not because she is doing everything right, nor because they are supposedly more hard-working or more productive but it is largely because of the Euro. On top of that Germany makes everything worse by adopting wage dumping at the expense of everyone else. F.ex the French are more productive than Germans but because Germany is artificially lowering its wages, it seems on papper than Germany is more productive when clearly that's not the case.

[Bezprym]

May I use your own words and say Bulgarian speaking about Greece, when obviously her country is 100x worse than ours :rolleyes:

Greece IS leader in the Balkans, it has the best army in the whole region, and is the #1 investor in Albania,Bulgaria and Fyrom.

What?
Ok, not mentioning Turkey, which is obviously in top 10 of best armies in the world, of all Balkan countries, their armies are located in world ranking like this:

56. Romania (if counting Romania)
61. Croatia
65. Greece
67. Bulgaria
70. Serbia
89. Bosnia and Hercegovina
99. Slovenia
100. Albania

Greece is 3rd on Balkans.

I am not taking any side in this "funny" argument, but simply saying.

[wvwvw]

This article is from 2011 but still relevant:

11.02.10Monthly Review Press

by Rick Wolff
Global capitalism imploded in 2007. The central causes of capitalism's crisis include:

the end of real wage increases in the US and the substitution of rising worker debt far beyond what workers could sustain;
the buildup of excess global industrial capacity;
the explosion of speculation and excess risk-taking by banks, other financial and non-financial corporations, and the rich;
the systematic misrepresentation of credit risks by capitalist rating firms;
the failure of supervision and regulation by governments increasingly dependent on corporations and the rich (for campaign contributions, lobbyists' supports, etc.) over the last quarter century;
the growing indebtedness of governments;
the huge imbalances between trade and capital flows among nations (and, above all, the trade deficits of the US and the trade surpluses of the PRC)
In this list, the role of Greece is minor almost to the vanishing point. But Greek workers loom large among the proposed victims of the capitalist crisis they did not cause.

When the global capitalist crisis hit in 2007, Greece like most other countries boosted its deficit finance. It had already been running high government deficits largely based on very rosy predictions of Greece's economic prospects given its low (for Europe) wages and rising productivity in the years before 2007. So Greece has borrowed a lot (although other countries who borrowed more and for similar reasons are not -- yet -- being treated like Greece).

The problem for Greek national debt is that other, larger, richer capitalist nations -- those whose capitalists' actions were the leading causes of the global crisis -- have also vastly increased their borrowing. Lending to the latter is far safer than lending to the poorer, often more indebted countries like Greece, Portugal, etc. So lenders are requiring them to pay much higher interest rates just to meet their current debt obligations (and they probably need to borrow more, just like other countries, to avoid another nasty recessionary downturn). Lenders are also threatening to stop lending unless these poorer countries lower the ratio between their debt and their GDP (the widely used measure of the country's total output and thus its ultimate ability to pay back its debts).

To make the billions in extra interest payments and/or to lower their outstanding debt, governments in countries like Greece would have to raise taxes on their people or cut spending on their peoples' needs or both. Those steps would provide those governments with the funds to pay higher interest rates on their debt and lower the total of outstanding debt.

In simple English: the global capitalist crisis first brought an economic downturn to Greece, and now the "recovery" seeks to impose on the Greek people an indefinite period of economic suffering as global lenders provide funds to the richer, larger capitalist economies elsewhere so that they can avoid what is demanded of the Greeks. The same leaders of business and government who produced the crisis are managing the "recovery" in just this way.

Nor should we fail to mention that the Greek government and its business leaders are now forced to make a big decision too. Will they go along with the plan? Will they force the mass of Greek workers and their families to pay higher taxes, earn lower incomes, and lose government services to "service Greece's creditors"? Or will they be blocked from doing so by the Greek peoples' resistance? That's what is at stake in the mass strikes now rocking Greece.

And how might that resistance handle matters differently? In the immediate future, they might finally demand an end to the massive evasion of Greek taxes by its billionaire and millionaire elite on both their corporate and personal accounts. Let them finally pay -- according to their exalted abilities -- to service Greece's creditors. However, given their equally notorious mechanisms of tax evasion, honed over centuries, it would be better -- and sooner rather than later -- to abolish private Greek enterprises and reorganize them as worker-controlled enterprises sharing power with the government. Their joint project would then be to produce a "recovery" not just from this particular capitalist crisis but from the system that reproduces capitalist crises every few years.

Such a Greek resistance might also stimulate and inspire parallel movements in other countries whose people are likewise boiling because they bear the costs of a crisis they did not cause and a "recovery" that is not theirs. And so it should be, because the Greek resistance would need allies elsewhere to succeed and vice versa. Capitalism's global crisis is a burden for the working classes of the world, but it is also an opportunity. To suffer the former while missing a chance to grab the latter would only make this crisis yet more tragic.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Throughout the 90's Germany was running deficits, so much that it had earned the name "the sick man of Europe"

This very moment Spain is running a deficit of 5%, I'm not sure of the exact number.

It was not just the borrowing that caused the crisis, but also the fact that Greece (but also other countries) was trapped inside the Euro, no longer being able to devalue its currency, (these not being the only reasons)

Before joining the Euro, Italy was running surpluses and so did Spain. Germany on the other hand was stuck in deficits. That changed as soon as they joined the Euro, Germany's budget surpluses all the sudden skyrocketed and S.Europe's plummeted. Even Finland lost 10% of its GDP since it joined the Euro although her borrowing costs are minimum.

Germany is strong not because she is doing everything right, nor because they are supposedly more hard-working or more productive but it is largely because of the Euro. On top of that Germany makes everything worse by adopting wage dumping at the expense of everyone else. F.ex the French are more productive than Germans but because Germany is artificially lowering its wages, it seems on papper than Germany is more productive when clearly that's not the case.

Greece was the worst offender. What Germany (and others) did was mild in comparison. I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise because if you want to dump all the blame on other European countries than taking a hard look at yourselves... then feel free. It won't change the story.

[wvwvw]

What?
Ok, not mentioning Turkey, which is obviously in top 10 of best armies in the world, of all Balkan countries, their armies are located in world ranking like this:

56. Romania (if counting Romania)
61. Croatia
65. Greece
67. Bulgaria
70. Serbia
89. Bosnia and Hercegovina
99. Slovenia
100. Albania

Greece is 3rd on Balkans.

I am not taking any side in this "funny" argument, but simply saying.

I was replying to purple's comment about how Greeks have always been leaders, but have not been since Ottomans, as if Bulgaria were some kind of world leaders and Greece lagged behind.

Your post is irrelevant because Greece is now sunk into a severe economic crisis. But that doesn change the fact that Greece has been doing better than Bulgaria for most of its existance.

I am pretty sure that the Greek army is the best in Balkans. Only USA spends more on defence than Greece, and we haven't cut our defence much since the beginning of crisis. I had opened a thread before about Greece being the best army in Balkans, Greek pilots had been voted best in Nato a few years back and even had defeated USA in dogfight.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I was replying to purple's comment about how Greeks have always been leaders, but have not been since Ottomans, as if Bulgaria were some kind of world leaders and Greece lagged behind.

Your post is irrelevant because Greece is now sunk into a severe economic crisis. But that doesn change the fact that Greece has been doing better than Bulgaria for most of its existance.

Yes, you had it better than Bulgaria because you lived on credit cards as you paid the public sector inflated salaries for doing nothing. The good life! :lightbul:


Too bad all of that came to an end in 2008. :tsk:

[wvwvw]

Greece was the worst offender. What Germany (and others) did was mild in comparison. I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise because if you want to dump all the blame on other European countries than taking a hard look at yourselves... then feel free. It won't change the story.

Most of the world's top ecomomists and nobelists, as well as the United States, France and a host of other countries are dumping the blame on Germany because it contributed to this crisis far more than Greece or all other countries altogether. Greece bore more than enough of its share of blame, it is Germany that is blaming all others but itself, so it can impose its 4th Reich on Europe.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Most of the world's top ecomomists and nobelists, as well as the United States, France and a host of other countries are dumping the blame on Germany because it contributed to this crisis far more than Greece or all other countries altogether.

Maybe. For getting the prescription to fix the economic malady that Greece caused wrong. But nobody held a gun to Greece's head and told them to keep running huge budget deficits and borrowing money. That's your fault.

[Bezprym]

I am pretty sure that the Greek army is the best in Balkans. Only USA spends more on defence than Greece, and we haven't cut our defence much since the beginning of crisis. I had opened a thread before about Greece being the best army in Balkans, Greek pilots had been voted best in Nato a few years back and even had won USA in dogfight.

And this is a part I was referring to. So yes, my post is relevant and important. Simply because I do not care to whom you addressed yours.

The United States trained many armies, but it means nothing. Imagine a situation: there is a coach of, let's say, German national team. He moves to Eritrea, to train Eritrean national team in football. Does it make an Eritrean team one of the best in region? No. It is not magic. Trainings with US Army are not focused on any "hocus pocus" and "abracadabra", where Americans hold hands on foreign soldiers heads and, in wise Latin language reads spells to make them fierce and experienced.

What gives real experience to the soldiers is being involved in wars or other military conflicts. Following your philosophy, I can say that Poland has the best army, because GROM was trained by Delta Force, and because GROM was trained by Delta Force, the whole Polish army would be able to defeat wild Russian hordes from the East. Because who cares about Russian Spetznaz? It was we who were trained by Muricans!

I, saying that Greece has not the best army in Balkans (it doesn't mean that has worst, actually in the region is pretty good), I was referring to what Greek army have. Motivation on the other hand in unmeasurable, so we cannot predict who will win some "conflict" if any would happen. For example, Poland was destined to lose for many times in history, because we were surrounded by Germans and Russians, who had best armies. But somehow we defeated Bolsheviks in 1920, not supported by the West. We also resisted Germans, and who knows - maybe we will even defeat them in 1939 if not Soviet Union's involvement. And Poland in 1920 existed only for 2 years, while in 1939 it was still a "young" resurrected country. So statistics means not that much, while the most important is behaviour and morale of the army.

Usually the defenders are more motivated to fight than invaders. Maybe with an exception, as matushka rossiya, was always motivated enough to invade other, neighbouring nations. But generally. And it fits every single nation of the world - not only Greece. If your country would be invaded by anyone, I am almost sure that your army would resist long enough. Maybe will even win, but it also depends on the invader.

Pilots experience is worthless. When a pilot dies, he (or she) must be substituted by a less experienced pilot. It happened in Battle of Britain, when RAF was substituting dead pilots by not experienced, and was refusing giving Polish pilots a chance for a long time. Finally, they decided to use help of Poles and Battle of Britain was won by the Alliance.

[wvwvw]

Maybe. For getting the prescription to fix the economic malady that Greece caused wrong. But nobody held a gun to Greece's head and told them to keep running huge budget deficits and borrowing money. That's your fault.

It would have been our fault if the monetary union worked properly for the benefit of all countries. For a monetary union to work, the money of the South that end up in the North, must be recycled again in the South (as it happens in U.S.).

As it also happens with China, where the Chinese surples with regards to US are being recycled and re-invested on US bonds f.ex.

You cannot have a surplus in one country without there being a deficit elsewhere. Blaming the debt crisis on Greek deficits makes no more sense than blaming it on German surpluses.

European financial institutions, notably those in Germany, recycled surpluses earned in the north as cheap credit for the south, who could in turn carry on purchasing northern exports. A recipe for disaster. Another central problem of the Eurozone have been the artificially falling wages in Germany. That's what made the great German 'Exportwunder' possible but led to current account deficits in many other european countries.


But nobody held a gun to Greece's head and told them to keep running huge budget deficits and borrowing money. That's your fault.

Although Greece had a deficit, it was managable and Greece could easily overcome the crisis with just a bit of help. But Germany find this as an excuse to impose its dominance everywhere in Europe, although she was herself responsible for bringing the Lehman virus to Europe.

You are right noone forced Greece to take those loans and Greece bears huge responsibility for not reducing her deficits in time, but Germany too should not be absolved of its responsibilities. Because it takes two to tango. In the good times German institution was flooding Greece with cheap money. Most of the money that Greece loaned, has been recycled to Germany anyway, for purchase of German products (like submarines).

Noone forced Greeks to take loans from German banks. Just like no American was forced to take on subprime mortgages. However, when you actively encourage people that you know they run deficits to take them and at the same time your institutions make rosy predictions about that economy, you bare at least 50% of the responsibility. Noone forced Germany to give those loans too.

During the good days, we were drowned in capital inflows aided and abetted by nice backhanders by the likes of Deutsche Bank and Siemens. Common folk in Greece (like in Germany) never got a chance to vote for or against these loans. Then when the whole thing went belly up, and Greece was bankrupted, the country was forced (by the German and Greek elites) to take on huge loans on condition that our GDP would shrink. And when this made the insolvency worse, we were given more loans and more GDP-shrinking austerity. Do you know that Germany forced bankrupt Greece and put the Greek government under enormous pressure to buy German weaponry? Unbearable pressure often accompanied by implied threats regarding Cyprus, Turkey etc. The fact that Greece was bankrupt didn't stop Germany from pressuring Greece to buy German weapons.

The primary reason why Germany allowed a preventable debt crisis to engulf the Periphery had to do with the sorry state of the German banks and with the determination of the German government to do nothing that exposes their precarious condition. It was also presented as a golden oportunity for Germany to establish her dominance and dictactorship over Europe.

[Queen B]

Greeks have the self-isteem of world leaders. Haven't been so since the Ottomans came.
Isteem?

[wvwvw]

Isteem?

are you a grammar nazi? ;)

[Queen B]

are you a grammar nazi? ;)
Not really. I make many mistakes myself.
Aplws exei plaka na koroideveis ola ta asxeta ta tetragwnokefala pou petagontai na poyne tis eksypnades tous.

[Faklon]

What?
Ok, not mentioning Turkey, which is obviously in top 10 of best armies in the world, of all Balkan countries, their armies are located in world ranking like this:

56. Romania (if counting Romania)
61. Croatia
65. Greece
67. Bulgaria
70. Serbia
89. Bosnia and Hercegovina
99. Slovenia
100. Albania

Greece is 3rd on Balkans.

I am not taking any side in this "funny" argument, but simply saying.

Well, Raine is a brown borreby ofc but quoting "globalfirepower" which is using external debt as a mean for military strength isn't that legit neither.

[wvwvw]

I find it hard to believe that Greece does not have the best equipped armed force in Balkans, for the simple fact that other countries don't need to spend that much on defence. Only the US spends more than Greece.

[i'llseeyouinhell]

Well we aren't Turkey's bitches for sure ;)

Despite Greece's economic problems (Greece is far from alone in this) it still has far more say than Fyrom which is at the mercy of Albania, Bulgaria and Turkey. And Greece's (Greece being #1 investor in Fyrom)


You are right you aren't our bitch anymore we aren't babysitting for greece since 1832 that's why you are like that now ;)

[Bezprym]

Well, Raine is a brown borreby ofc but quoting "globalfirepower" which is using external debt as a mean for military strength isn't that legit neither.

It uses mostly a potential. Without money you don't get weapons. It is that simple. Pure logic. You do not have 2$, you do not buy a beer. Ammo costs, it doesn't grow on trees.

Magic.

[Pausanias]

Slavs look like retards with these rounded heads. The slavic girls are okay.

[aksakallicocuk]

İ have seen some balkan looking Greeks but they are not so many. And please ignore raine. He starts the most idiotic arguments.

[Bezprym]

Slavs look like retards with these rounded heads. The slavic girls are okay.

At least some Slavs are not ashamed of their homeland, and do not put EU flag as their location.

[Pausanias]

At least some Slavs are not ashamed of their homeland, and do not put EU flag as their location.

Yes yes, I'm very ashamed :laugh:

[Bezprym]

Yes yes, I'm very ashamed :laugh:

I've seen it. I don't need a confirmation of an idiot.

[Pausanias]

Srsly, why the hell slavs got so rounded head? HEADS ARE NOT FOR PLAYING FOOTBALL.

they should have a bit more squared heads, not so much as germans but a bit more squared...

[Bezprym]

Ask scientists, genius.

[Pausanias]

Raine I love you <3


















https://media2.giphy.com/media/rho9L4MsYXaec/200_s.gif

[Faklon]

It uses mostly a potential. Without money you don't get weapons. It is that simple. Pure logic. You do not have 2$, you do not buy a beer. Ammo costs, it doesn't grow on trees.

Magic.

If you think that in times in war the government will lend money to buy uzis and give them to villagers, then you may have a point but for maintaining a relatively big army you rather don't.

[Bezprym]

If you think that in times in war the government will lend money to buy uzis and give them to villagers, then you may have a point but for maintaining a relatively big army you rather don't.

Army doesn't have weapons for free - rifles do not grow on trees, neither do tanks nor submarines.

[Faklon]

Army doesn't have weapons for free - rifles do not grow on trees, neither do tanks nor submarines.

Check the budgets, personnel and weaponry. What you basically say is the possibility of lending to suddenly rise and maintain an army, it may have an effect but this derivative is overstated there as a mean to military strength.

[Queen B]

At least some Slavs are not ashamed of their homeland, and do not put EU flag as their location.
His nickname has his ancestry,his ethnicity-metaethnicity and ancestry also mention his ancestry :picard1:

[Bezprym]

His nickname has his ancestry,his ethnicity-metaethnicity and ancestry also mention his ancestry :picard1:

:picard1:

[Sikeliot]

Obviously the ones shifted toward Balkans are mainlanders, those in the southern Italian cluster are islanders.

[Sikeliot]

An alternative explanation is Indo-European influence being stronger in Greece and the rest of the Balkans, weaker on the Aegean islands and in southern Italy, and practically nonexistent in Cyprus and this could explain their relative plotting.

[Sikeliot]

On that Eurogenes K7, someone made a PCA plot and I included a Peloponnesian, two Sicilians, and a Greek islander.

The Peloponnesian was close to where Chloe plots (Albanian) but a bit off to the side. East Sicilian and Greek islander were together (obviously little to no North Euro influence in either).