Was Haplogroup R originally mongoloid?

[Abdelnour]

I was thinking about this, because it descends from MNOPS and every single haplogroup other than R has had epicanthic fold and absent browridges. Some turkic tribes are of Haplogroup R but you can say that the mongoloid genes are more of the maternal side.

What do you guys think?

[spanish catalan]

mystery...

[Rugevit]

People that had R haplogroup lived in Altai 24,000 years ago. They would not be classified as Europid or Mongoloid for that matter by modern day physical anthropologists.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

BUMP

[Messier 67]

The entire K2 and descendants haplogroups were all mongoloids (Chinese, Koreans, Malayan, Finns, Native Americans) and Negroids (the Papuans).

The pre-Proto-Europeans were mongoloids with Mongoloid features/looks. These Mongoloid features were lost by most during the Proto-Indo-European and Indo-European conquest of Europe. Although some aryan tribes today still exist with full mongoloid features/looks.


Just check the phylogeny. If a deep subclade, like Q1a2a1c, is found in Europe are the same as in Mongolia, then it means that the common ancestor for this subclade is too recent to be a Palaeolithic offshoot from Siberia to Europe. You have to look at the TMRCA otherwise it's impossible to determine the historical time frame for each subclade.

Obviously, if you found some Q*, Q1* or even Q1a* in Europe, then it could have come during the Ice Age.

It's case by case, as it depends on their subclade, but ultimately the patrilineal ancestor of haplogroup Q was Siberian and probably Mongoloid looking. That being said, it is not even sure that the Huns still looked Asian by the time they reached Central Europe, as they had been mixing with Europid/Caucasian people for many generations. What is certain is that the Vikings that brought Q1a to the British Isles did not look any more Asian than their I1, R1a and R1b comrades. Actually there is not much difference between Q, R1a and R1b in this regard. The original R1 ancestors also had Mongoloid features. This is sure from the testing of the 24,000 year-old Siberian Mal'ta boy, who belonged to R1* and was of the Mongoloid type. The main difference is that R1a and R1b people migrated west earlier and therefore mixed with Caucasoid people well before people of haplogroup Q. But anyway it only takes a few generations for Mongoloid features to be completely faded by intermarriage.

source: https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/

69069

[Harkonnen]

Yes it was.

[Ülev]

there is one y-dna brach - Q,P,R

R1 is real red-skinned Indians, unable to tan, who burn in sun

they conquered Eurasia, I mean R1 with Q support

look at great map source:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Ameri cas#Haplogroup_R1

so it was not Columbus who won, but "Koo-wi-s-gu-wi" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ross_(Cherokee_chief)) (second name John .... Ross)


look at Amerindians top of head

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m63r4XlOgo4/TwcJjAd2T0I/AAAAAAAAByo/zZlH6xuD3ds/s1600/Chief+Wolf+Robe.jpg

now look for example how looks Arjen Roben

and compare with quite flat top of head of Sinoid rather than Mongoloid Xi from China

https://78.media.tumblr.com/8932a922914a569226fca1545a038a05/tumblr_inline_ny4rjs3mdX1sxre9s_540.png

yeah, R1 are Amerindians

[Kelmendasi]

R1 probably originated in north-eastern Asia, this would mean that they did look closer to Mongoloids

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Yes it was.

Just like Finnish?

[Harkonnen]

there is one y-dna brach - Q,P,R

R1 is real red-skinned Indians, unable to tan, who burn in sun

they conquered Eurasia, I mean R1 with Q support

look at great map source:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Ameri cas#Haplogroup_R1

so it was not Columbus who won, but "Koo-wi-s-gu-wi" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ross_(Cherokee_chief)) (second name John .... Ross)


look at Amerindians top of head

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m63r4XlOgo4/TwcJjAd2T0I/AAAAAAAAByo/zZlH6xuD3ds/s1600/Chief+Wolf+Robe.jpg

now look for example how looks Arjen Roben

and compare with quite flat top of head of Sinoid rather than Mongoloid Xi from China

https://78.media.tumblr.com/8932a922914a569226fca1545a038a05/tumblr_inline_ny4rjs3mdX1sxre9s_540.png

yeah, R1 are Amerindians

P is the ancestral form so it is more likely they looked originally more like negritos.

[Harkonnen]

Just like Finnish?

No, N was originally European. R was mongoloid.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

No, N was originally European. R was mongoloid.

N was Mongoloid too.

The entire K2 and descendants haplogroups were all mongoloids (Chinese, Koreans, Malayan, Finns, Native Americans) and Negroids (the Papuans).

Deal with it.

[Messier 67]

P is the ancestral form so it is more likely they looked originally more like negritos.

There are Haplogroup P tribes in Siberia/Eastern Russia that are still mongoloids.

[DarknessWin]

Not mongoloid but Indian-Pakistani

[Messier 67]

Not mongoloid but Indian-Pakistani

The Khoton Tribe in Central Asia is about 90% fatherline aryan with about 50% motherline white women. If it were a white people with 90% white men and 50% white women, the rest mongoloid, the people would look white. Since aryans are a mongoloid race, the tribe is 3/4 mongoloid and actually looks 3/4 mongoloid. The same is true of the Bashkirs, another aryan tribe. The stats are about the same with the Bashkirs aryans as with the Khoton aryans, resulting in about 3/4 mongoloid, looking mongoloid.

There are probably other aryan tribes that are and look mongoloid like these two aryan mongoloid tribes.

These percentages already take into account Mongolian ancestry from the Mongol Invasion and the stats come up aryans are mongoloids. aryans lost their native american like look their blood brothers haplogroup Q has from the aryans taking of white women generationally.

[DarknessWin]

The Khoton Tribe in Central Asia is about 90% fatherline aryan with about 50% motherline white women. If it were a white people with 90% white men and 50% white women, the rest mongoloid, the people would look white. Since aryans are a mongoloid race, the tribe is 3/4 mongoloid and actually looks 3/4 mongoloid. The same is true of the Bashkirs, another aryan tribe. The stats are about the same with the Bashkirs aryans as with the Khoton aryans, resulting in about 3/4 mongoloid, looking mongoloid.

There are probably other aryan tribes that are and look mongoloid like these two aryan mongoloid tribes.

These percentages already take into account Mongolian ancestry from the Mongol Invasion and the stats come up aryans are mongoloids.


Aryan tribes = indian tribes

Stop compare aryan to white skin, this is Hitler's bullshit

[Harkonnen]

There are Haplogroup P tribes in Siberia/Eastern Russia that are still mongoloids.

There is no P in Siberia. It is only found in South East Asia. If your info is based on some older studies, it is actually just some undefined Q.

[Ülev]

there is one y-dna brach - Q,P,R

R1 is real red-skinned Indians, unable to tan, who burn in sun

they conquered Eurasia, I mean R1 with Q support

look at great map source:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Ameri cas#Haplogroup_R1

so it was not Columbus who won, but "Koo-wi-s-gu-wi" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ross_(Cherokee_chief)) (second name John .... Ross)


look at Amerindians top of head

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m63r4XlOgo4/TwcJjAd2T0I/AAAAAAAAByo/zZlH6xuD3ds/s1600/Chief+Wolf+Robe.jpg

now look for example how looks Arjen Roben

and compare with quite flat top of head of Sinoid rather than Mongoloid Xi from China

https://78.media.tumblr.com/8932a922914a569226fca1545a038a05/tumblr_inline_ny4rjs3mdX1sxre9s_540.png

yeah, R1 are Amerindians


P is the ancestral form so it is more likely they looked originally more like negritos.


on EgyptSearch forum there was something that R1b V88 is the oldest of R1b and came from Africa indeed

http://i40.tinypic.com/14tu5xt.jpg

more here ---> http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009271

and eventually:
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1719/revisit-cruicani-backmigration-theory-r1b

[Messier 67]

There is no P in Siberia. It is only found in South East Asia. If your info is based on some older studies, it is actually just some undefined Q.

No I was referencing wikipedia:

The highest percentages of P are found in Eastern Russia

35.4% among Tuvan males;
35% among Nivkh and;
28.3% among Altai-Kizhi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P1_(Y-DNA)#Modern_distribution

So you are saying wikipedia has older studies, not yet updated, and the likely place R and Q mutated from P was in Southeast Asia? Since P is only found in Southeast Asia.

[Ülev]

on EgyptSearch forum there was something that R1b V88 is the oldest of R1b and came from Africa indeed

http://i40.tinypic.com/14tu5xt.jpg

more here ---> http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009271

and eventually:
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1719/revisit-cruicani-backmigration-theory-r1b

lost R1b tribe in Great Zimbabwe? --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Zimbabwe
the same architecture style like in medieval west europe

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Great-Zimbabwe-2.jpg

[Harkonnen]

No I was referencing wikipedia:

The highest percentages of P are found in Eastern Russia

35.4% among Tuvan males;
35% among Nivkh and;
28.3% among Altai-Kizhi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P1_(Y-DNA)#Modern_distribution

Omg you were referencing wikipedia. Well you are wrong, there is no P in Siberia. Those Tuvans are likely Q or something.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

There is no P in Siberia. It is only found in South East Asia. If your info is based on some older studies, it is actually just some undefined Q.

N is originally mongoloid. Look today's N people.

Pure asians and Mongoloids. You cant deny it.

Just Finns different from all others.

[Harkonnen]

on EgyptSearch forum there was something that R1b V88 is the oldest of R1b and came from Africa indeed

http://i40.tinypic.com/14tu5xt.jpg

more here ---> http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009271

and eventually:
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1719/revisit-cruicani-backmigration-theory-r1b

That pic actually shows a equal split between V88 and P297. Neither is descendent from the other. For some reason folk have very hard time understanding this concept. I notice this same phenom when discussing haplogroup N matters.

[Harkonnen]

N is originally mongoloid. Look today's N people.

Pure asians and Mongoloids. You cant deny it.

Just Finns different from all others.

East Asians don't have any autosomal ancestry from their N ancestors, they have just the y-dna.

[Messier 67]

Aryan tribes = indian tribes

Stop compare aryan to white skin, this is Hitler's bullshit

You can't call R "Indo-European" because Indo-Europeans came from R, you can't call it "Proto-Indo-European", because again, the Proto-Indo-European came from R. R predated even the Proto-Indo-European. What it is... is aryan. That is the only ethnic label I can think of. And genetics have proven about half of Indians, the Indo-Aryans are R. So the R tribe is aryan. And aryan means the exact opposite of whiteness, it is mongoloid ancestry.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

East Asians don't have any autosomal ancestry from their N ancestors, they have just the y-dna.

Not east asians. See your Sami partners today, and Karelians.

They are massivly Mongoloids.

They are a proof of N mongoloid roots. You look more European becouse of I from Vikings. All Europe know that N is asian marker. Just you are trying to proove a different.

[Harkonnen]

Not east asians. See your Sami partners today, and Karelians.

They are massivly Mongoloids.

They are a proof of N mongoloid roots. You look more European becouse of I from Vikings. All Europe know that N is asian marker. Just you are trying to proove a different.

Dude I'm a Karelian and I look spot on like the Oase man, my ancient ancestor


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wIXCiYCiiw

When I was traveling Europe I was twice the size of the natives and felt like those giant goblins from game of thrones.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Dude I'm a Karelian and I look spot on like the Oase man, my ancient ancestor


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wIXCiYCiiw

When I was traveling Europe I was twice the size of the natives and felt like those giant goblins from game of thrones.

Actually, that is characteristic for I1 people. That mean you have autosomal contact with I1 proto-Nordics.

Also some Russians was of I1 descent.

Like Lav Nikolayevich Tolstoy.

[Kelmendasi]

Dude I'm a Karelian and I look spot on like the Oase man, my ancient ancestor

[vieo=youtube;5wIXCiYCiiw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wIXCiYCiiw[/video]

When I was traveling Europe I was twice the size of the natives and felt like those giant goblins from game of thrones.
Oase actually looked like this:
http://donsmaps.com/images12/oaseskull.jpg

[Kazimiera]

Dude I'm a Karelian and I look spot on like the Oase man, my ancient ancestor


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wIXCiYCiiw

You should invest in some skin................. :D

[Harkonnen]

Actually, that is characteristic for I1 people. That mean you have autosomal contact with I1 proto-Nordics.

Also some Russians was of I1 descent.

Like Lav Nikolayevich Tolstoy.

ha ha with this esoteric bullshit. My maternal grandfather was actually I1 but he was autosomally fully Karelian.

[Kelmendasi]

ha ha with this esoteric bullshit. My maternal grandfather was actually I1 but he was autosomally fully Karelian.
He probably belonged to the Finnish clade of I1, I1-L287

[Harkonnen]

Oase actually looked like this:
http://donsmaps.com/images12/oaseskull.jpg

Nah this reco is crap. But in anycase even this one looks more Finnish than Chinese, looks like Jarkko Ruutu. Google the guy. And he was a huge bitch for sure.

[Dick]

Nah this reco is crap. But in anycase even this one looks more Finnish than Chinese, looks like Jarkko Ruutu. Google the guy. And he was a huge bitch for sure.

or Olli Jokinen.

[Harkonnen]

You should invest in some skin................. :D

Watch the video, he grows skin quickly.

[Harkonnen]

or Olli Jokinen.

Indeed.

[Kelmendasi]

Nah this reco is crap. But in anycase even this one looks more Finnish than Chinese, looks like Jarkko Ruutu. Google the guy. And he was a huge bitch for sure.
Yh I do see some resemblance with him and the guys you and Dick are talking about

[Harkonnen]

One population, represented by the 37,000-year-old Kostenki14, contributed genetic ancestry to present-day Europeans; a second population represented by the Tianyuan individual contributed to present-day East and Southeast Asians; and one or more additional populations represented by the 45,000-year-old Ust’-Ishim and the 40,000-year-old Oase1 individuals did not contribute detectably to any present-day populations.

If there had been Harkonnen reference in the study there would have been perfect match!

[Kelmendasi]

Found this reconstruction of one of the Oase guys here http://www.kenniskennis.com/site/sculptures/. Idk how accurate it is though

http://www.kenniskennis.com/images/site/451.jpg

[Vlatko Vukovic]

ha ha with this esoteric bullshit. My maternal grandfather was actually I1 but he was autosomally fully Karelian.

But he was I1.

My theroy is still true. And even you prooved her. With your maternal grandfather I1.

N is asian. I is European. That is why some of Finns look pure European, and some mongoloids.

Deal with it. End of story.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Found this reconstruction of one of the Oase guys here http://www.kenniskennis.com/site/sculptures/. Idk how accurate it is though

http://www.kenniskennis.com/images/site/451.jpg

Mongoloid....

[Harkonnen]

Found this reconstruction of one of the Oase guys here http://www.kenniskennis.com/site/sculptures/. Idk how accurate it is though

http://www.kenniskennis.com/images/site/451.jpg

Could be accurate. Guys that old are likely to look very archaic.

[Harkonnen]

Mongoloid....

Read the literature on the guy. He was extremely big guy. Bigger than any other dude in that time frame. He had a lot of neanderthal ancestry and also anthropology WISE was found to have a lot of neanderthal-like features.

[Kelmendasi]

Could be accurate. Guys that old are likely to look very archaic.
Yh, the guys who made this reconstruction were the guys who made the Otzi reconstruction. He looks a bit like the Khoisan mixed with Neanderthal features

[Kelmendasi]

Read the literature on the guy. He was extremely big guy. Bigger than any other dude in that time frame. He had a lot of neanderthal ancestry and also anthropology WISE was found to have a lot of neanderthal-like features.
He probably had around 11% Neanderthal admixture suggesting that he had a close Neanderthal ancestor.

[Harkonnen]

But he was I1.

My theroy is still true. And even you prooved her. With your maternal grandfather I1.

N is asian. I is European. That is why some of Finns look pure European, and some mongoloids.

Deal with it. End of story.

You do know that Saamis are something like 40-50% y-dna I, which is much higher I than most Finnish groups. So according to your theory Saamis are more European looking than Finns.

[Magnolia]

I hope R1a and other Slavic y-haplogroups were originally mongoloid.
Mongoloid people are cool, smart and strong.

[Dick]

Read the literature on the guy. He was extremely big guy. Bigger than any other dude in that time frame. He had a lot of neanderthal ancestry and also anthropology WISE was found to have a lot of neanderthal-like features.

Neanderthal diet was very high in protein which of course is not surprising.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/308501.php?utm_source=TrendMD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Medical_News_Today_TrendMD_1

[Proto-Shaman]

There is no P in Siberia. It is only found in South East Asia. If your info is based on some older studies, it is actually just some undefined Q.

P-M45, also known as P1, or P1*, or K2 is a Central Asian marker.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDI7j1eftqk

It directly came via south-east Asia from the sunken continent Mu, the ancient Uyghur Civilization.

[Proto-Shaman]

on EgyptSearch forum there was something that R1b V88 is the oldest of R1b and came from Africa indeed

http://i40.tinypic.com/14tu5xt.jpg

more here ---> http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009271

and eventually:
http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1719/revisit-cruicani-backmigration-theory-r1b

Actually the oldest R1b is M73, which is a central asian marker, primarily Turkic. M343 is even older and is only found among Eurasians as well, M343* is even found only among Uyghurs and Kurd.

[Dibran]

You do know that Saamis are something like 40-50% y-dna I, which is much higher I than most Finnish groups. So according to your theory Saamis are more European looking than Finns.

You'll have to excuse the Slavs. They think they have the answer to everything. 😂

[Proto-Shaman]

ATTENTION PLEASE: FINGOLIA ALARM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKrrJLWCAx0

[Proto-Shaman]

I hope R1a and other Slavic y-haplogroups were originally mongoloid.
Mongoloid people are cool, smart and strong.

I invite you for dinner sweetheart :love0033:

[cosmoo]

Dude I'm a Karelian and I look spot on like the Oase man, my ancient ancestor

When I was traveling Europe I was twice the size of the natives and felt like those giant goblins from game of thrones.
Oase was just K and lived cca. 37800 ybp, while NO was formed cca. 41500 ybp, so no, nothing descends from him. Also, you cleverly omitted Ust-Ishim man, which was K2a, much older than Oase 1 (45000 ybp), and he lived in Siberia.
So no- N is not native to Europe by any means, as all ancient DNA suggests (no Finnic N1c whatsoever in Mesolithic northern Europe, plus, its ancestral clades today live in Siberia).


Nah this reco is crap. But in anycase even this one looks more Finnish than Chinese, looks like Jarkko Ruutu. Google the guy. And he was a huge bitch for sure.
They have no resemblance whatsoever, niggerish nose means nothing compared to overall morphology.

[Kelmendasi]

Oase was just K and lived cca. 37800 ybp, while NO was formed cca. 41500 ybp, so no, nothing descends from him. Also, you cleverly omitted Ust-Ishim man, which was K2a, much older than Oase 1 (45000 ybp), and he lived in Siberia.
So no- N is not native to Europe by any means, as all ancient DNA suggests (no Finnic N1c whatsoever in Mesolithic northern Europe, plus, its ancestral clades today live in Siberia).


They have no resemblance whatsoever, niggerish nose means nothing compared to overall morphology.
According to this http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/palaeolithicdna.shtml, the Oase male was K2a. Still though I do agree with the eastern origin of N1c

[Vlatko Vukovic]

You do know that Saamis are something like 40-50% y-dna I, which is much higher I than most Finnish groups. So according to your theory Saamis are more European looking than Finns.

No. Finns are more European then Samiis.

Becouse Finnish DNA is influenced different from Samii.

Look it:

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

you have 61% N (who originate in Asia, deal with it), but western Finland is more influenced with I (Or R1a or R1b who already mutated into a European group), so this N is not very visible.

I am sorry if you are N by haplogroup, but this haplogroup is not a factor of your European looking. That is I. That is your grandfather !

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I hope R1a and other Slavic y-haplogroups were originally mongoloid.
Mongoloid people are cool, smart and strong.

You don't think it really :)

Anyways i hope that i am I2 Balkanite then R ancient Mongoloid.

[Peterski]

Slavic y-haplogroups

Here is the list of Slavic Y-haplogroups (various branches of R1a and I2a):

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=144062&view=findpost&p=1685377

Michał estimates, that in year 1 AD Proto-Slavs numbered just 6000 men!:

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=144062&view=findpost&p=1683001

Can you imagine? From 6000 to hundreds of millions during just 2000 years!

[Ülev]

one of this two was Slavicised, but if Russians and Poles want be "Slavic as fuck" (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?155478-Slavic-as-fuck) then I2a1 can be Celtic (like Bosnensis claim) or Persian (another one theory from all those "porjeklo Hrvata, Srbina etc.)

[Vlatko Vukovic]

one of this two was Slavicised, but if Russians and Poles want be "Slavic as fuck" (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?155478-Slavic-as-fuck) then I2a1 can be Celtic (like Bosnensis claim) or Persian (another one theory from all those "porjeklo Hrvata, Srbina etc.)

Srba* xD

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Here is the list of Slavic Y-haplogroups (various branches of R1a and I2a):

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=144062&view=findpost&p=1685377

Michał estimates, that in year 1 AD Proto-Slavs numbered just 6000 men!:

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=144062&view=findpost&p=1683001

Can you imagine? From 6000 to hundreds of millions during just 2000 years!

Most of them are R

I2 can be slavicized only.

But my opinion is that I2 was Illyrian also. why not?

[cosmoo]

Most of them are R

I2 can be slavicized only.

But my opinion is that I2 was Illyrian also. why not?

I2a1b was the most common haplogroup of northern hunter-gatherers, while not a single one was found in ancient samples of southeastern Europe.
It is pretty clear that it is the native population of the regions that possibly firstly got assimilated into Germanics, and then into Slavics. No chance whatsoever of them being "Illyrian".

[Aenar]

Most of them are R

I2 can be slavicized only.

But my opinion is that I2 was Illyrian also. why not?

I2-CTS10228 was not slavized, I2-CTS10228 was together with R1a-M458 and R1a-Z280 participated in creation of proto-Slavs in central or eastern Europe around 2000 years ago.

[Ülev]

I2-CTS10228 is not slavized, I2-CTS10228 was together with R1a-M458 and R1a-Z280 participated in creation of proto-Slavs in central or east Europe 2000 years ago.

I2a1 were the rulers over R1a Baltic folk, they bring them letters, bible etc.

[Hevo]

The entire K2 and descendants haplogroups were all mongoloids (Chinese, Koreans, Malayan, Finns, Native Americans) and Negroids (the Papuans).

The pre-Proto-Europeans were mongoloids with Mongoloid features/looks. These Mongoloid features were lost by most during the Proto-Indo-European and Indo-European conquest of Europe. Although some aryan tribes today still exist with full mongoloid features/looks.



source: https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/

69069

That's based on modern diversity and frequencies which can be misleading and inaccurate, we need ancient dna to confirm that K2/P expanded from South East Asia. So far, Ust'-Ishim from Western Siberia and Oase from Romania were both K2a.

Btw, Mal'ta boy belonged to R*, not R1*.

[Ülev]

Srba* xD

hvala lijepo

[Aenar]

I2a1 were the rulers over R1a Baltic folk, they bring them letters, bible etc.

Either way, I2a1 and R1a were mixed in central or eastern Europe in ancient period, and not in the Balkans after VII century.

Slavic invaders which came to the Balkans in VII century were I2a1 & R1a, only uneducated people or trolls can say that Slavic invaders were only R1a and that I2a1 was in the Balkans before Slavic invasion.

[Harkonnen]

Oase was just K and lived cca. 37800 ybp, while NO was formed cca. 41500 ybp, so no, nothing descends from him. Also, you cleverly omitted Ust-Ishim man, which was K2a, much older than Oase 1 (45000 ybp), and he lived in Siberia.
So no- N is not native to Europe by any means, as all ancient DNA suggests (no Finnic N1c whatsoever in Mesolithic northern Europe, plus, its ancestral clades today live in Siberia).


They have no resemblance whatsoever, niggerish nose means nothing compared to overall morphology.

You fucking monkey, no matter how many times you repeat this lie, it does not make it true. Oase was NO. Fact.

[Harkonnen]

No. Finns are more European then Samiis.

Becouse Finnish DNA is influenced different from Samii.

Look it:

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

you have 61% N (who originate in Asia, deal with it), but western Finland is more influenced with I (Or R1a or R1b who already mutated into a European group), so this N is not very visible.

I am sorry if you are N by haplogroup, but this haplogroup is not a factor of your European looking. That is I. That is your grandfather !

The fact is that I1 in Finns is due to very recent bottleneck effect. If there is any y-dna which explains why I am different to rest of Europeans it is N1c1. Remember, you are genetically more similar to people like Mari and Komi than you are to me. This is because Finns lack the Indo-European admixture which is somewhat present in the Volga Finno-Ugrians.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

The fact is that I1 in Finns is due to very recent bottleneck effect. If there is any y-dna which explains why I am different to rest of Europeans it is N1c1. Remember, you are genetically more similar to people like Mari and Komi than you are to me. This is because Finns lack the Indo-European admixture which is somewhat present in the Volga Finno-Ugrians.

I am more similar to Mari??

Sorry, but my country is 55% haplogroup I2 (proto-European).

55% of citizens of my country, their paternal ancestors are first settlers in Europe :) Along with I1.

So i am not similar to Mari. We have less then 25% of the R in average. So we are not similar to Mari's. (Not genetically, also not lingusitically)

While Finnish language is very close to Turkic. By origin.

Better for you to have indo-european influence, then Turkic!

But you are more proud with your similarity with the Turks.

[Harkonnen]

I am more similar to Mari??

Sorry, but my country is 55% haplogroup I2 (proto-European).

55% of citizens of my country, their paternal ancestors are first settlers in Europe :) Along with I1.

So i am not similar to Mari. We have less then 25% of the R in average. So we are not similar to Mari's. (Not genetically, also not lingusitically)

While Finnish language is very close to Turkic. By origin.

Better for you to have indo-european influence, then Turkic!

But you are more proud with your similarity with the Turks.

I was not talking about y-dna. Some recent studies put I1 and I2 in Finland to about 45%, but my point was that I1 in Finns is likely about 1500-2000 years old. The population which brought it was likely Germanic speaking and likewise I would presume it was autosomally more like modern let's say Scandinavians than modern Finns. As the genetic distance between Finns and Germanics is huge, to me it looks likely that this population left it's mark mostly on the y-side rather than the autosomal side.

Yes you are autosomally more similar to Mari than you are to me:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2lk49ch.jpg

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I was not talking about y-dna. Some recent studies put I1 and I2 in Finland to about 45%, but my point was that I1 in Finns is likely about 1500-2000 years old. The population which brought it was likely Germanic speaking and likewise I would presume it was autosomally more like modern let's say Scandinavians than modern Finns. As the genetic distance between Finns and Germanics is huge, to me it looks likely that this population left it's mark mostly on the y-side rather than the autosomal side.

Yes you are autosomally more similar to Mari than you are to me:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2lk49ch.jpg

You made me on the bottom of the scale, even you don't know my haplogroup.

About autosomal, we have nothing common with Mari's.

Sorry but i am acutally destroying you in facts:

https://i.imgur.com/2ufwMeL.png

Autosomal studies.

We have literally nothing autosomal with Saami's. Deal with it.

[Harkonnen]

You made me on the bottom of the scale, even you don't know my haplogroup.

About autosomal, we have nothing common with Mari's.

Sorry but i am acutally destroying you in facts:

https://i.imgur.com/2ufwMeL.png

Autosomal studies.

We have literally nothing autosomal with Saami's. Deal with it.

Dude I am quickly loosing my patience with you. You are fucking dumb as a brick. Just go freaking shoot yourself you fucking moron.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Dude I am quickly loosing my patience with you. You are fucking dumb as a brick. Just go freaking shoot yourself you fucking moron.

Your bullshits have nothing to do with science. You just represent some bullshits without proofs. what autosomal dna'???

THAT IS A AUTOSOMAL DNA WHICH I POSTED TO YOU.

[Harkonnen]

Your bullshits have nothing to do with science. You just represent some bullshits without proofs. what autosomal dna'???

THAT IS A AUTOSOMAL DNA WHICH I POSTED TO YOU.

You posted some ancient eurogenes plitplot which was done with faulty and outdated methods with delibarate twisting of data. I have no time to have discussions with some fucking illiterate nimcamboob.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

You posted some ancient eurogenes plitplot which was done with faulty and outdated methods with delibarate twisting of data. I have no time to have discussions with some fucking illiterate nimcamboob.

Not ancient. It is a modern autosomal DNA.

When you draw for yourself in Finnland photo.

How can me, from Balkan be similar to Maris? Or Saamis?

Are you really crazy or what??

Mostly of my ancestors are of native European origin. They never been in contact with Maris or Saamis.

You are very uneducated man.

[Harkonnen]

Not ancient. It is a modern autosomal DNA.

When you draw for yourself in Finnland photo.

How can me, from Balkan be similar to Maris? Or Saamis?

Are you really crazy or what??

Mostly of my ancestors are of native European origin. They never been in contact with Maris or Saamis.

You are very uneducated man.

Shoot yourself you freaking idiot. I never even said that you are similar to Saamis. You freak just made that up in your freaking worm-infested brain. I said that you are more similar to Maris than you are to me. I NEVER SAID THAT YOU ARE EXTREMELY CLOSE GENETICALLY TO MARIS

JUST THAT YOU ARE MORE SIMILAR TO THEM THAN YOU ARE TO ME

READ THESE SENTENCES ABOUT 100 TIMES AND MAYBE YOU WILL FINALLY GET IT

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Shoot yourself you freaking idiot. I never even said that you are similar to Saamis. You freak just made that up in your freaking worm-infested brain. I said that you are more similar to Maris than you are to me. I NEVER SAID THAT YOU ARE EXTREMELY CLOSE GENETICALLY TO MARIS

JUST THAT YOU ARE MORE SIMILAR TO THEM THAN YOU ARE TO ME

READ THESE SENTENCES ABOUT 100 TIMES AND MAYBE YOU WILL FINALLY GET IT

Idiot. Why you are even explaining me that bullshit??

Where did i even say that i am similar to you?

[cosmoo]

You fucking monkey, no matter how many times you repeat this lie, it does not make it true. Oase was NO. Fact.

No reliable source lists it as NO. It belongs to a dead clade, since NO was already formed back in then. Ust Ishim men and other Siberians back in then were forefathers of NO.
It is extremely pathetic that you rely on a single skull which is not what you claim it is, being unable to debunk the fact that clades ancestral to Finnic N1c1 live in Siberia, as well as Mesolithic ancient DNA samples from the north which firmly contradict everything you said so far.

[Harkonnen]

No reliable source lists it as NO. It belongs to a dead clade, since NO was already formed back in then. Ust Ishim men and other Siberians back in then were forefathers of NO.
It is extremely pathetic that you rely on a single skull which is not what you claim it is, being unable to debunk the fact that clades ancestral to Finnic N1c1 live in Siberia, as well as Mesolithic ancient DNA samples from the north which firmly contradict everything you said so far.

You fucking retard there are at least 2 legit studies which list it as NO, and I've posted you the links at least dozen times already.

Now fuckoff moron.

Also the ancestral clades of Siberian N1c1 are found in European Russia.

[cosmoo]

You fucking retard there are at least 2 legit studies which list it as NO, and I've posted you the links at least dozen times already.

Now fuckoff moron.
Buttblasted Jukka is buttblasted.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

You fucking retard there are at least 2 legit studies which list it as NO, and I've posted you the links at least dozen times already.

Now fuckoff moron.

Also the ancestral clades of Siberian N1c1 are found in European Russia.

All when N is found, that is from Finnsih migration from Siberia.

"The Y-chromosome haplogroup N-M231 (Hg N) is distributed widely in eastern and central Asia, Siberia, as well as in eastern and northern Europe. Previous studies suggested a counterclockwise prehistoric migration of Hg N from eastern Asia to eastern and northern Europe. However, the root of this Y chromosome lineage and its detailed dispersal pattern across eastern Asia are still unclear. We analyzed haplogroup profiles and phylogeographic patterns of 1,570 Hg N individuals from 20,826 males in 359 populations across Eurasia. We first genotyped 6,371 males from 169 populations in China and Cambodia, and generated data of 360 Hg N individuals, and then combined published data on 1,210 Hg N individuals from Japanese, Southeast Asian, Siberian, European and Central Asian populations. The results showed that the sub-haplogroups of Hg N have a distinct geographical distribution. The highest Y-STR diversity of the ancestral Hg N sub-haplogroups was observed in the southern part of mainland East Asia, and further phylogeographic analyses supports an origin of Hg N in southern China. Combined with previous data, we propose that the early northward dispersal of Hg N started from southern China about 21 thousand years ago (kya), expanding into northern China 12–18 kya, and reaching further north to Siberia about 12–14 kya before a population expansion and westward migration into Central Asia and eastern/northern Europe around 8.0–10.0 kya. This northward migration of Hg N likewise coincides with retreating ice sheets after the Last Glacial Maximum (22–18 kya) in mainland East Asia."

Is that a lie too? :)

[Ülev]

Below is a map of confirmed instances of I-M26 found in prehistoric remains. Lots of others could have potentially been added -- ancestral clades, closely related sister clades, and ones where the coverages is insufficient to determine whether it is indeed M26 (or L672 L160 etc.) But we decided to err on the side of being conservative.



Going chronologically, we have M26 in what is now Sweden, at the Motala site, at 7730 BP (Before Present). These were Hunter/Gatherers.

http://snplogic.blogspot.com/2015/06/ancient-dna-provides-new-understanding.html

[Harkonnen]

All when N is found, that is from Finnsih migration from Siberia.

"The Y-chromosome haplogroup N-M231 (Hg N) is distributed widely in eastern and central Asia, Siberia, as well as in eastern and northern Europe. Previous studies suggested a counterclockwise prehistoric migration of Hg N from eastern Asia to eastern and northern Europe. However, the root of this Y chromosome lineage and its detailed dispersal pattern across eastern Asia are still unclear. We analyzed haplogroup profiles and phylogeographic patterns of 1,570 Hg N individuals from 20,826 males in 359 populations across Eurasia. We first genotyped 6,371 males from 169 populations in China and Cambodia, and generated data of 360 Hg N individuals, and then combined published data on 1,210 Hg N individuals from Japanese, Southeast Asian, Siberian, European and Central Asian populations. The results showed that the sub-haplogroups of Hg N have a distinct geographical distribution. The highest Y-STR diversity of the ancestral Hg N sub-haplogroups was observed in the southern part of mainland East Asia, and further phylogeographic analyses supports an origin of Hg N in southern China. Combined with previous data, we propose that the early northward dispersal of Hg N started from southern China about 21 thousand years ago (kya), expanding into northern China 12–18 kya, and reaching further north to Siberia about 12–14 kya before a population expansion and westward migration into Central Asia and eastern/northern Europe around 8.0–10.0 kya. This northward migration of Hg N likewise coincides with retreating ice sheets after the Last Glacial Maximum (22–18 kya) in mainland East Asia."

Is that a lie too? :)

Yes, it's total nonsense. If I'm honest the Chinese have a agenda to prove the Chinese origin of N, and they publish these poorly made studies every 3 months. You shouldn't take them seriously.

Here's Lawrence Maykas opinion on that study:


Unfortunately, that study directly sampled only East Asians, and tested only four reliable SNPs: M231, Tat, P43, and M128. (It also tested the misleadingly useless LLY22g, which we now know has back-mutated multiple times.) The study openly admits that the alleged N-M231* is "younger than expected, likely as a result of yet-to-be-identified individuals having derived N-M231 sub-haplogroup when new Y SNP markers are uncovered in the future."

Thus, the study's basic conclusion (the origin of N in southern China) rests entirely on 7 Y-STRs measured on the alleged N-LLY22g* of East Asia only. The study made no attempt to discover a new SNP that would characterize this paragroup; nor did the study test P189 or L732, which were on the ISOGG haplotree (and unfairly criticized by a hasty and uninformed blogger) by the time of the study's publication.


http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3441-Haplogroup-N-Zone-of-Origin-amp-Early-Dispersals-split/page3

Mayka is expert on this stuff; he speaketh truth.

[Rethel]

:picard2:

[Ülev]

:picard2:

the truth will free you

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Yes, it's total nonsense. If I'm honest the Chinese have a agenda to prove the Chinese origin of N, and they publish these poorly made studies every 3 months. You shouldn't take them seriously.

Here's Lawrence Maykas opinion on that study:



http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3441-Haplogroup-N-Zone-of-Origin-amp-Early-Dispersals-split/page3

Mayka is expert on this stuff; he speaketh truth.


1) I can't enter in this thread becouse i am not a member of the forum.

2) That guy still can't prove that N is of European origin (as you are claiming in every thread).

[Vlatko Vukovic]

the truth will free you

The truth is that "N" haplogroup originated in Europe?? (as Harkonnen say)

[Ülev]

The truth is that "N" haplogroup originated in Europe?? (as Harkonnen say)

no, rather that R1 is originally Mongoloid (Steppe Mongoloid), N is interesting case, to me QPR is Steppe Mongoloid, others like the Chinese are Sinoids "only", with more or less from SM features

[Vlatko Vukovic]

no, rather that R1 is originally Mongoloid (Steppe Mongoloid), N is interesting case, to me QPR is Steppe Mongoloid, others like the Chinese are Sinoids "only", with more or less from SM features

Yeah. But N is mongoloid also. Finns just try to hide it.

[Longobarda]

69132
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69132&d=1508962036
69133
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69133&d=1508962040
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69134&d=1508962201

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69136&d=1508962223

[Vlatko Vukovic]

69132
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69132&d=1508962036
69133
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69133&d=1508962040
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69134&d=1508962201

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=69136&d=1508962223

Conclusion is that N is of mongoloid origin, like all descedants of the haplogroup "K".

[Harkonnen]

Conclusion is that N is of mongoloid origin, like all descedants of the haplogroup "K".

K2a (NO) was not mongoloid as proven by those couple studies I linked yesterday. K2b was for sure mongoloid.

Also - Gabi Garcia woul kill you - deal with it

[Vlatko Vukovic]

K2a (NO) was not mongoloid as proven by those couple studies I linked yesterday. K2b was for sure mongoloid.

Also - Gabi Garcia woul kill you - deal with it

"The Caucausoid/Mongoloid split happens with the IJ/K split, K migrating to Asia and becoming Mongoloid, IJ remaining in the Fertile Crescent becoming Caucausoid. Haplogroup G & H also Caucasoid.

Descendants of K (R1a,R1b, a few Q, a few N), and some E clades migrate back into Caucasoid areas and become Caucasoid over time from mixing."

That is what science say. N is of Mongoloid origin, like all "K" descedants. And you know it.

Science vs Harkonnen 1-0

[Ülev]

science vs R1 1-0

[Harkonnen]

"The Caucausoid/Mongoloid split happens with the IJ/K split, K migrating to Asia and becoming Mongoloid, IJ remaining in the Fertile Crescent becoming Caucausoid. Haplogroup G & H also Caucasoid.

Descendants of K (R1a,R1b, a few Q, a few N), and some E clades migrate back into Caucasoid areas and become Caucasoid over time from mixing."

That is what science say. N is of Mongoloid origin, like all "K" descedants. And you know it.

Science vs Harkonnen 1-0

KOKKASOID

[cosmoo]

Do not mistake thyself, knave. We will tear down your walls, dine in your keeps and take away fruits of your hard labor while your hamlets burn.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

KOKKASOID

No no Kokkasoid. Mongoloid!

[Ülev]

Europeized Asians

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Predominant_Haplogroups.png

[The Sun King]

No it was not.

[Viking]

apple groups?

[kingjohn]

probably was mongolid but lost all of it by thousand of thousands oif years of mixing
with other haplogroups like haplogroup I-M170 and others .

[Rethel]

probably was mongolid but lost all of it by thousand of thousands oif years of mixing
with other haplogroups like haplogroup I-M170 and others .

It couldn;t be mongoloidic, as Mal'ta boy who was pre-R1 (R*) and who was a castizo,
had 71% caucasian and 25% amerindian. Rest 4% papuan. Nothing mongoloidic. In 50%
or 60% was even EHG - the very IE au, which was exclusivly R1, so logaclly he had
nothing mongoloidic, and obviously was a mix, typical castizo.

[kingjohn]

connected to q
why you ashame ?
i am not ashame that i am connected to e1b1a through the pn2 clade but it hapened 30,000 -32,000 yeasr
ago so who gives a fuck
don't be ashamed ?

[Ülev]

E1b master race!

[kingjohn]

look at my avatar this is my paternal grandfather brother true e1b1b1 hail .... :)

[Rethel]

connected to q
why you ashame ?

Where did you read about shame? :picard2:
I forget, that you are reading what you want to read.
So, bye.

[Ülev]

Q&R brotherhood

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Karl_May_Winnetou_I_bis_III_001.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnetou

[Rethel]

Q&R brotherhood

Though, amerindian au is not the same as mongoloidic.
And still is separate from IE one. Sometimes did cross,
but was separate since the boeginning.

Personaly I deeply doubt, that R and Q were brothers,
but it is not impossible. could be, but is very unlikely.

[kingjohn]

Where did you read about shame? :picard2:
I forget, that you are reading what you want to read.
So, bye.

no we are togather in this forum it is like a catholic wedding no divorce :)

[Ülev]

connected to q
why you ashame ?
i am not ashame that i am connected to e1b1a through the pn2 clade but it hapened 30,000 -32,000 yeasr
ago so who gives a fuck
don't be ashamed ?


Where did you read about shame? :picard2:
I forget, that you are reading what you want to read.
So, bye.

Hunnic R1a :)

https://sites.google.com/site/luandihuns/_/rsrc/1472866111404/home/XiongnuMaps41.jpg
more here: https://sites.google.com/site/luandihuns/home

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Hunnic R1a :)

https://sites.google.com/site/luandihuns/_/rsrc/1472866111404/home/XiongnuMaps41.jpg
more here: https://sites.google.com/site/luandihuns/home

What type of R1a :D

There is visible sign that Scythians are R1a too :D

[Ülev]

What type of R1a :D

There is visible sign that Scythians are R1a too :D

from my Native Indian intuitive point of view that small R1a is M458, bigger is Z-93

[Vlatko Vukovic]

from my Native Indian intuitive point of view that small R1a is M458, bigger is Z-93

But point is that R1a-M458 was not represented in Hunnic people :D

[Ülev]

or not found yet

[Vlatko Vukovic]

or not found yet

This type of R1a is not found in any mongoloid looking people i think. I think that is very specified for Slavic people.

[Ülev]

Molecular Genealogy of a Mongol Queen’s Family and Her Possible Kinship with Genghis Khan

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5023095/

Members of the Mongol imperial family (designated the Golden family) are buried in a secret necropolis; therefore, none of their burial grounds have been found. In 2004, we first discovered 5 graves belonging to the Golden family in Tavan Tolgoi, Eastern Mongolia. To define the genealogy of the 5 bodies and the kinship among them, SNP and/or STR profiles of mitochondria, autosomes, and Y chromosomes were analyzed. Four of the 5 bodies were determined to carry the mitochondrial DNA haplogroup D4, while the fifth carried haplogroup CZ, indicating that this individual had no kinship with the others. Meanwhile, Y-SNP and Y-STR profiles indicate that the males examined belonged to the R1b-M343 haplogroup

a pic of those noble people from German version of Wikipedia - do you see that redish-white skin tone?:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Mongolian_children_with_mother.jpg
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolen

[Rethel]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2nbvsc3.jpg

[Ülev]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2nbvsc3.jpg


https://youtu.be/EY39fkmqKBM

[Proto-Shaman]

It couldn;t be mongoloidic, as Mal'ta boy who was pre-R1 (R*) and who was a castizo,
had 71% caucasian and 25% amerindian. Rest 4% papuan. Nothing mongoloidic. In 50%
or 60% was even EHG - the very IE au, which was exclusivly R1, so logaclly he had
nothing mongoloidic, and obviously was a mix, typical castizo.

I found this when I googled "Amerindian"

http://pixdaus.com/files/items/pics/0/64/241064_6527c9e52cdf556f01f4d9eb43cff64e_large.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

Q&R brotherhood

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Karl_May_Winnetou_I_bis_III_001.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnetou

without Turks they can't even flirt on scientific level

[Vlatko Vukovic]

without Turks they can't even flirt on scientific level

who?

[Proto-Shaman]

But point is that R1a-M458 was not represented in Hunnic people :D

Balkar M458 is ancestral to all M458's

[Proto-Shaman]

who?
Europoids and Amerindians.

[Turul Karom]

Any data on R1b in both modern Hungarians and proto-steppe Hungarians? I have seen a few things but always like to collect more facts.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Europoids and Amerindians.

I think that Western Europe didn't have Turkic influence in creating a civilisation.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Balkar M458 is ancestral to all M458's

Do you have some real proof. Not some your pages, but some normal?

Sorry, that means that ancestors of Poles was some Turkic-speaking people (Balkars), so i can't agree with you.

[Ülev]

yeah, those Balkars from Kabardino-Balkaria, Krasnodar Krai (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasnodar_Krai) etc... Stavropol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavropol)- Staro-polska - Old-Poland ---> this is from where R1ethelites came lately
and named Elbe river ---> Laba like in their old homeland ---> https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laba_River

[Vlatko Vukovic]

yeah, those Balkars from Kabardino-Balkaria, Krasnodar Krai (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasnodar_Krai) etc... Stavropol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavropol)- Staro-polska - Old-Poland ---> this is from where R1ethelites came lately
and named Elbe river ---> Laba like in their old homeland ---> https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laba_River

LOL that have no sense.

that mean that ancestors of Poles spoke Balkar (Turkic) language.

This theories have no sesne really.

[Ülev]

I2a1 taught M458 IE language (Slavic) like I1 did with R1b (Germanic), J2 gave Latin language to R1b(and a) people

almost only R1b - Basque language, Ergative–absolutive language, the same as in Georgia or Avar language ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergative%E2%80%93absolutive_language


THE STORY OF TWO NORTHWARD MIGRATIONS - ORIGINS OF FINNO - PERMIC AND BALTO - SLAVIC LANGUAGES IN NORTHEAST EUROPE, BASED ON HUMAN Y - CHROMOSOME HAPLOGROUPS
http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/viewFile/4182/4018

R1a M558 was agglutinative permian language

half of Africa speak english, but only speak, they are not owners of this language

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I2a1 taught M458 IE language (Slavic) like I1 did with R1b (Germanic), J2 gave Latin language to R1b(and a) people

almost only R1b - Basque language, Ergative–absolutive language, the same as in Georgia or Avar language ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergative%E2%80%93absolutive_language


THE STORY OF TWO NORTHWARD MIGRATIONS - ORIGINS OF FINNO - PERMIC AND BALTO - SLAVIC LANGUAGES IN NORTHEAST EUROPE, BASED ON HUMAN Y - CHROMOSOME HAPLOGROUPS
http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/viewFile/4182/4018

R1a M558 was agglutinative permian language

half of Africa speak english, but only speak, they are not owners of this language

But you said that R1a M458 is of Balkar - turkic origin.

So then how is poosible that they speak Slavic language which is very different from turkics.

[Pahli]

Mal'ta sample:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 49.96
2 Americas 17.77
3 South_Asia 16.09
4 West_Asia 9.77
5 Siberia 4.13
6 West_Africa 1.7
7 Oceania 0.58

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Aluet 23.97
2 Chuvash 29.25
3 Tatar 29.65
4 Mordovian 31.61
5 Russian 32.72
6 Finnish 34.14
7 Belarusian 35.49
8 Polish 35.53
9 Estonian 35.73
10 Latvian 35.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.8% Finnish + 22.2% Pima @ 19.87
2 78.5% Finnish + 21.5% Colombian @ 19.99
3 78.5% Finnish + 21.5% Karitiana @ 19.99
4 78.5% Finnish + 21.5% Surui @ 19.99
5 77.9% Finnish + 22.1% Mayan @ 20.01
6 81.8% Aluet + 18.2% UP_Muslim @ 20.13
7 83.5% Aluet + 16.5% Sakilli @ 20.25
8 83.8% Aluet + 16.2% Hakkipikki @ 20.32
9 80.9% Aluet + 19.1% Tamil_Nadu_Brahmin @ 20.33
10 83.7% Aluet + 16.3% North_Kannadi @ 20.37

Dominantly Caucasoid

[Stears]

It was mestizo. Certanly not white haplogroup originally.

[Pahli]

It was mestizo. Certanly not white haplogroup originally.

Mixed yes, but neither a purely Caucasoid or Mongoloid haplogroup

[Ülev]

Northern Caucasus, North Black Sea shore was the area of I2a1 back in the time, but those people were Rethelised and on the other hand were teach IE

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Centum_Satem_map.png

Srubna-Sintashta was only a periodic stop-camp in Steppe-Mongol "Drang nach Western"
If IJ originated in Zagros Mountain, then it has to be their area, not
Malta-Boys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta%E2%80%93Buret%27_culture) from Irkutsk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkutsk) of R1 origin


In addition, living examples of the precursor Haplogroup IJ* have been found only in Iran, among the Mazandarani and ethnic Persians from Fars.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Northern Caucasus, North Black Sea shore was the area of I2a1 back in the time, but those people were Rethelised and on the other hand were teach IE

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Centum_Satem_map.png

Srubna-Sintashta was only a periodic stop-camp in Steppe-Mongol "Drang nach Western"
If IJ originated in Zagros Mountain, then it has to be their area, not
Malta-Boys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta%E2%80%93Buret%27_culture) from Irkutsk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkutsk) are of R1 origin


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170

What is blue and what is red in this map??

What is mentioning of this.

[Ülev]

noble Aryans are of IJ origin, period

[Ülev]

What is blue and what is red in this map??

What is mentioning of this.

Tocharians on wikipedia as indo-european people --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians, but picture does not lie

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Donor_figures_from_Kizil_Caves.PNG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Museum_f%C3%BCr_Indische_Kunst_Dahlem_Berlin_Mai_2 006_063.jpg

they were Genghis Khan'oids


Molecular Genealogy of a Mongol Queen’s Family and Her Possible Kinship with Genghis Khan

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5023095/

Members of the Mongol imperial family (designated the Golden family) are buried in a secret necropolis; therefore, none of their burial grounds have been found. In 2004, we first discovered 5 graves belonging to the Golden family in Tavan Tolgoi, Eastern Mongolia. To define the genealogy of the 5 bodies and the kinship among them, SNP and/or STR profiles of mitochondria, autosomes, and Y chromosomes were analyzed. Four of the 5 bodies were determined to carry the mitochondrial DNA haplogroup D4, while the fifth carried haplogroup CZ, indicating that this individual had no kinship with the others. Meanwhile, Y-SNP and Y-STR profiles indicate that the males examined belonged to the R1b-M343 haplogroup

a pic of those noble people from German version of Wikipedia - do you see that redish-white skin tone?:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Mongolian_children_with_mother.jpg
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolen

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Tocharians on wikipedia as indo-european people --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians, but picture does not lie

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Donor_figures_from_Kizil_Caves.PNG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Museum_f%C3%BCr_Indische_Kunst_Dahlem_Berlin_Mai_2 006_063.jpg

they were Genghis Khan'oids

Is this known which haplogroup were they?

[Stears]

Is this known which haplogroup were they?

They were R1a.

[Ülev]

Is this known which haplogroup were they?

the source is above, in short:

Meanwhile, Y-SNP and Y-STR profiles indicate that the males examined belonged to the R1b-M343 haplogroup

R1 family

[Rethel]

I found this when I googled "Amerindian"

http://pixdaus.com/files/items/pics/0/64/241064_6527c9e52cdf556f01f4d9eb43cff64e_large.jpg

So imagine 1/4 of it - a castizo, like CrazyDaisy or this guy from Chile...

[Rethel]

It was mestizo.

Castizo.


Certanly not white haplogroup originally.

So who was white, if the rest of european hgs were swarthy, browny or black? :picard2:

And where did he get 50% of EHG? :coffee:

[Stears]

Castizo.



So who was white, it rest of european hgs were swarthy, browny or black? :picard2:

And where did he get 50% of EHG? :coffee:

At least we had blue eyes, and were 100% European autosomally. EHG is less European than the WHG, because of mongoloid admixture.

And the EHG guys were swarthy pigmented. I read about it today.

[Rethel]

Mixed yes, but neither a purely Caucasoid or Mongoloid haplogroup

It is IE hg, not matter what race.

But at the beginning it was EHGean population, which was exclusivly R1.
Mal;ta has 50% of it, and 25% of other caucasoid types.
Logically, he was mixed, he was a castizo.

People here were laughing from me, when I suggested, that Africans could
loose 2-3% of neanderthal DNA. Do you want to say, that IEs loose 50%
of non EHGean DNA - as they were 100% EHG in Eastern Europe? Really? :scratch:

It is interesting, how "natural laws" works. When it supports evolution, then
the most bizzare and impossible thing can ahppen - but when it is against it,
then very simple and east things are not possible... interesting, isn't it?

[Rethel]

At least we had blue eyes, and were 100% European autosomally.

100% european? And what? What does it mean?
European but black - do not play word games.
The word european is meaningless.


And these blue eyes, if they were, they were from IE admixture.
It will be proved in the future, you'll see.


EHG is less European than the WHG, because of mongoloid admixture.

You really need some psychoterapy in cabonet of some
Mongol becasue you have some problem with that issue.
And no, EHG was not mongoloidic, man... stop embarassing
yourself day by day... :picard2:


And the EHG guys were swarthy pigmented. I read about it today.

Sure... :picard2:

You could rwad about Karelian boy, who was amerindianic admixed,
some kind of castizo or even half castizo, I dont remember exactly.
He only witness that Amerindian people were crossing whole northern
Europe in their trek to Scandia, where they mostly live today in foreign skin.

[Proto-Shaman]

LOL that have no sense.

that mean that ancestors of Poles spoke Balkar (Turkic) language.

This theories have no sesne really.
http://www.anatole-klyosov.com/10_05_2017.pdf

page 1727-1728 + 1757

[Vlatko Vukovic]

http://www.anatole-klyosov.com/10_05_2017.pdf

page 1727-1728 + 1757

I put it in google translate and it is very hard to understand from Google translate.

But i heard for this Klyosov. I listened him when he spoke about R1a and R1b war in ancient time.

[Ülev]

http://www.anatole-klyosov.com/10_05_2017.pdf

page 1727-1728 + 1757

yeah, the truth finally revealed

[Vlatko Vukovic]

yeah, the truth finally revealed

what he is speaking about in this pages? Really i can't translate it good.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

yeah, the truth finally revealed

what he is speaking about in this pages? Really i can't translate it good.

[Ülev]

what he is speaking about in this pages? Really i can't translate it good.

in short, even if R1a was incorporated to Turkic ethnicity, they lived far more eastern than today
but R1a M458 and other clades were found in Lithuanian Tatars, Balkars, Nogays etc. with high %

edit: and those Tatars or other Turkic groups rather did not mixed with locals, at least by paternal side, I mean they could take local women, but did not allow their daughters "marry" with local, indigenous males (that's my conclusion)

[Vlatko Vukovic]

in short, even if R1a was incorporated to Turkic ethnicity, they lived far more eastern than today
but R1a M458 and other clades were found in Lithuanian Tatars, Balkars, Nogays etc. with high %

edit: and those Tatars or other Turkic groups rather did not mixed with locals, at least by paternal side, I mean they could take local women, but did not allow their daughters "marry" with local, indigenous males (that's my conclusion)

So Klyosov are saying that this haplogroup is originally from these Turkic tribes or?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

And what about R1a-M558

[Ülev]

I did not read whole article, but knowing life - everyone is trying make their people greater, so I am pretty sure that his conclusion will be that Aryans, Samratians, Scythians, Persians and Martians were of Slavic origin

but on the other side - he showed that majority of Lithuanian and Crimea Tatars have R1a - everyone can make own theory

[Proto-Shaman]

Bulgars, a Turkic tribe in Central-Eastern Europe (http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Bulg.html)

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Bulgars, a Turkic tribe in Central-Eastern Europe (http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Bulg.html)

It is not unknown fact. That Bulgars are slavicized turkic tribe.

But you must admit that they don't look today as Turkics. They have more Slavic genes and Thracians.

[Pahli]

It is not unknown fact. That Bulgars are slavicized turkic tribe.

But you must admit that they don't look today as Turkics. They have more Slavic genes and Thracians.

It was possibly their elite that was speaking Turkic, the main population could easily have been a mix of Turkic, Iranic and Slavic that later got completely slavicized.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

It was possibly their elite that was speaking Turkic, the main population could easily have been a mix of Turkic, Iranic and Slavic that later got completely slavicized.

Point is that old-Bulgars didn't settle Balkan as Hordes (as Turks usually do in history), that is a reason why they are not similar to other turkic peoples today.

[Pahli]

Point is that old-Bulgars didn't settle Balkan as Hordes (as Turks usually do in history), that is a reason why they are not similar to other turkic peoples today.

Well modern Bulgarians barely have any East Eurasian which means that the population that settled there only were an elite or the population they brought with them were mostly non-Mongoloid admixed

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Well modern Bulgarians barely have any East Eurasian which means that the population that settled there only were an elite or the population they brought with them were mostly non-Mongoloid admixed

Yes. There are many proofs who relate Bulgarian language with other Iranics. Literally, Slavic nations and Iranic nations are historical brothers. Specially by origin and language.

Turks are some different civilisation from them.

[Proto-Shaman]

It was possibly their elite that was speaking Turkic, the main population could easily have been a mix of Turkic, Iranic and Slavic that later got completely slavicized.
Yes, something like that.

[Pahli]

Yes. There are many proofs who relate Bulgarian language with other Iranics. Literally, Slavic nations and Iranic nations are historical brothers. Specially by origin and language.

Turks are some different civilisation from them.

Only Scytho-Sarmatians are responsible for the linguistic and cultural connection to the Slavs in terms of borrow words, other Iranic populations were way too remote.

By linguistic terms, older Iranian dialects have a good share of similar words, don't remember them all but there are quite few.

[Proto-Shaman]

It is not unknown fact. That Bulgars are slavicized turkic tribe.

But you must admit that they don't look today as Turkics. They have more Slavic genes and Thracians.

its because they settled there many millenias before modern era.

http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Maps/BulgarsE.PNG

http://alterling.ucoz.de/_si/0/s08183770.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TYUauXa.png

On the map, purple dots mark localities with Bulgarish origin of the name, which may correspond to the times of CWC or close to them. Maroon – the later, of Scythian period. Asterisks mark known single or group sites of CWC. Browns show the area of Indo-Europeans, and green is the territory of the spread Fatyanovo and Balanovo cultures. Hydronyms of Bulgarish origin are indicated by turquoise dots.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

its because they settled there many millenias before modern era.

http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Maps/BulgarsE.PNG

http://alterling.ucoz.de/_si/0/s08183770.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TYUauXa.png

On the map, purple dots mark localities with Bulgarish origin of the name, which may correspond to the times of CWC or close to them. Maroon – the later, of Scythian period. Asterisks mark known single or group sites of CWC. Browns show the area of Indo-Europeans, and green is the territory of the spread Fatyanovo and Balanovo cultures. Hydronyms of Bulgarish origin are indicated by turquoise dots.

So what is Turkic evidance about it? Does proto-Bulgars looked similar to other Turks in ancient time?

[Proto-Shaman]

So what is Turkic evidance about it? Does proto-Bulgars looked similar to other Turks in ancient time?
look at the Chuvashs, they speak a modern Bolgar-Turkic language but no Turk understand them. Bulgars do have much IE Germanic parallels.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Only Scytho-Sarmatians are responsible for the linguistic and cultural connection to the Slavs in terms of borrow words, other Iranic populations were way too remote.

By linguistic terms, older Iranian dialects have a good share of similar words, don't remember them all but there are quite few.

Yeah. I am speaking about similar nature of language, between Slavic and Iranian. Words are today of course very different. 2 different civilisations, 2 different continents.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

look at the Chuvashs, they speak a modern Bolgar-Turkic language but no Turk understand them. Bulgars do have much IE Germanic parallels.

IE yeah. But Germanic? I don't see any Germanic connection with them in history and migrations.

[Ülev]

but please note - those similarities only between Iranic and South Slavic

[Proto-Shaman]

IE yeah. But Germanic? I don't see any Germanic connection with them in history and migrations.
Klyosov from the same paper: "Те же языки, в своем развитии, составляли неИЕ языки древней Европы, которые от современных молодых тюркских, конечно, ушли уже очень далеко, и которые до сих пор составляют мощный «доИЕ субстрат» в европейских языках, в частности, в германских."

Google Translate: "The same languages, in their development, were the non-IndoEuropean languages of ancient Europe, which of course from the modern young Turkic countries have already gone very far, and which still constitute a powerful "pre-IndoEuropean substratum" in European languages, in particular, in Germanic."

look up: --> Chuvash-Germanic lexicon (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/41TurkicInEnglish/EnglishTurkicLexiconEn.htm#Chuvash)

[Ülev]

Avestan "atraš" sound similar to croatian "vatra" but the hell nothing common with polish ogień (fire)

Poles and others with R1a - Turkic
South Slavs with I2a1 - Persian

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Klyosov from the same paper: "Те же языки, в своем развитии, составляли неИЕ языки древней Европы, которые от современных молодых тюркских, конечно, ушли уже очень далеко, и которые до сих пор составляют мощный «доИЕ субстрат» в европейских языках, в частности, в германских."

Google Translate: "The same languages, in their development, were the non-IndoEuropean languages of ancient Europe, which of course from the modern young Turkic countries have already gone very far, and which still constitute a powerful "pre-IndoEuropean substratum" in European languages, in particular, in Germanic."

look up: --> Chuvash-Germanic lexicon (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/41TurkicInEnglish/EnglishTurkicLexiconEn.htm#Chuvash)

Yeah. But i think that he (as Russian person) is exaggerating about this Turko-Germanic relativities. I think that his speechs are not objective, but subjective (toward Germanic origin peoples).

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Avestan "atraš" sound similar to croatian "vatra" but the hell nothing common with polish ogień (fire)

Poles and others with R1a - Turkic
South Slavs with I2a1 - Persian

Still i don't think that R1a is Turkic haplogroup.

I2a1 are Croats and Bosniaks mostly, Serbs are mostly R1a peope.

[Turkminator]

Poles and others with R1a - Turkic
South Slavs with I2a1 - Persian

This. Thread can be closed. Everything important was said.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Avestan "atraš" sound similar to croatian "vatra" but the hell nothing common with polish ogień (fire)

Poles and others with R1a - Turkic
South Slavs with I2a1 - Persian

Btw. "Persian" and "Iranian" are not same origin. South Slavs are not Persians.

[Bosniensis]

Btw. "Persian" and "Iranian" are not same origin. South Slavs are not Persians.

No they are not, population of Persia changed a lot. At some point in time it was populated by Greeks.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

This. Thread can be closed. Everything important was said.

Sorry you have nothing with Odin, you are Tengri steppe Turk.

[Proto-Shaman]

Yeah. But i think that he (as Russian person) is exaggerating about this Turko-Germanic relativities. I think that his speechs are not objective, but subjective (toward Germanic origin peoples).

it is in accordance with Carleton Coon's Altaic Corded Ware culture: https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-VII3.htm

[Pahli]

Sorry you have nothing with Odin, you are Tengri steppe Turk.

No, he is a Middle Eastern looking sandnigger.

And Avestan word for fire is "Atar" not "Atrash"

Anyways, R1 comes from the EHG males that populated Russia prior to the Yamnaya culture

I2 = Very first Europeans

[Proto-Shaman]

Sorry you have nothing with Odin, you are Tengri steppe Turk.

Odin was an Asian Tyrk shaman:

https://udfordringen.dk/2005/12/odin-var-en-asiatisk-shaman/

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Odin was an Asian Tyrk shaman:

https://udfordringen.dk/2005/12/odin-var-en-asiatisk-shaman/

In wich time?

[Proto-Shaman]

In wich time?
1st millennium BC

[Vlatko Vukovic]

1st millennium BC

If he was OK. At least Perun was not :)))

But again this Anatolian Stallion has nothing to do with this Asian Shamanist Odin.

Anatolian Stallion looks like middle-eastern not like a real Central Asian Turk.

[Proto-Shaman]

This. Thread can be closed. Everything important was said.
Kurds are high in I2a, too.

https://aryanity.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/chapter-3-figure3.jpg

a few weeks ago I had a conversation about haplogroup I with another Slavic guy: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?220841-What-if-Turks-had-never-existed&p=4644801#post4644801

Ancestors of I2 originated in Eastern Mediterranean area, later they moved to Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M438#Origin_.26_prehistoric_presence

[QUOTE]Basal I2* (I-M438*) has been found in ancient remains from Frankthi cave, in the eastern Peloponnese region of Greece. Along with its modern presence in Crete and Sicily, this may suggest that the haplogroup originated in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Just wanted to remind: basal I* and IJ* is only found in the Caucasus and Iran. I in general originated from the same area. Highest frequency of I in the near East is found among Kurds:

Zaza Kurds:
https://i.imgur.com/u6pc4aE.png
https://i.imgur.com/qUEvmoJ.png

Kurmandji Kurds:
https://i.imgur.com/RKJ9FAT.png

https://i.imgur.com/NA2ZyVc.png

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Kurds are high in I2a, too.

https://aryanity.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/chapter-3-figure3.jpg

a few weeks ago I had a conversation about haplogroup I with another Slavic guy: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?220841-What-if-Turks-had-never-existed&p=4644801#post4644801

Ancestors of I2 originated in Eastern Mediterranean area, later they moved to Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M438#Origin_.26_prehistoric_presence

[QUOTE]Basal I2* (I-M438*) has been found in ancient remains from Frankthi cave, in the eastern Peloponnese region of Greece. Along with its modern presence in Crete and Sicily, this may suggest that the haplogroup originated in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Just wanted to remind: basal I* and IJ* is only found in the Caucasus and Iran. I in general originated from the same area. Highest frequency of I in the near East is found among Kurds:

Zaza Kurds:
https://i.imgur.com/u6pc4aE.png
https://i.imgur.com/qUEvmoJ.png

Kurmandji Kurds:
https://i.imgur.com/RKJ9FAT.png

There are no relativities between Slavs and Kurds in fact, on any base. Old Horvathi and Sorbi are not connected with Kurds.

[Turkminator]

Kurds are high in I2a, too.

https://aryanity.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/chapter-3-figure3.jpg

a few weeks ago I had a conversation about haplogroup I with another Slavic guy: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?220841-What-if-Turks-had-never-existed&p=4644801#post4644801

Ancestors of I2 originated in Eastern Mediterranean area, later they moved to Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M438#Origin_.26_prehistoric_presence

Basal I2* (I-M438*) has been found in ancient remains from Frankthi cave, in the eastern Peloponnese region of Greece. Along with its modern presence in Crete and Sicily, this may suggest that the haplogroup originated in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Just wanted to remind: basal I* and IJ* is only found in the Caucasus and Iran. I in general originated from the same area. Highest frequency of I in the near East is found among Kurds:

Zaza Kurds:
https://i.imgur.com/u6pc4aE.png
https://i.imgur.com/qUEvmoJ.png

Kurmandji Kurds:
https://i.imgur.com/RKJ9FAT.png

It was already the first modern humans from the Orient who began to settle Europe about 46 000 years ago. They were carriers of the Aurignac culture, possibly with haplogroup J. Therefore, similarities between Southern Slavs and Orientals are not out of the question - we know from anthropological science that Armenoids are reduced Iranids and Dinarids are a European variant of the Armenoids. These flowing transitions can also be revealed genetically as well as physiognomically.

Vlade Divac prime example of a Dinarid can pass from Iran to Armenia without problems.

http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/j666ib-Sacramento-Kings-give-Vlade-Divac-contract-extension-more-time-to-turn-team-around/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/Sacramento%20Kings%20give%20Vlade%20Divac%20contra ct%20extension,%20more%20time%20to%20turn%20team%2 0around

[Ülev]

^^
http://i49.tinypic.com/e0hd0w.png

[Vlatko Vukovic]

It was already the first modern humans from the Orient who began to settle Europe about 46 000 years ago. They were carriers of the Aurignac culture, possibly with haplogroup J. Therefore, similarities between Southern Slavs and Orientals are not out of the question - we know from anthropological science that Armenoids are reduced Iranids and Dinarids are a European variant of the Armenoids. These flowing transitions can also be revealed genetically as well as physiognomically.

Vlade Divac prime example of a Dinarid can pass from Iran to Armenia without problems.

http://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/j666ib-Sacramento-Kings-give-Vlade-Divac-contract-extension-more-time-to-turn-team-around/alternates/LANDSCAPE_1140/Sacramento%20Kings%20give%20Vlade%20Divac%20contra ct%20extension,%20more%20time%20to%20turn%20team%2 0around

This phenotype is not common for South Slavs in reallity.

South Slavic average:

http://informer.rs/data/images/2015-10-21/51409_16-vuk-kostic_f.jpg

[Rereg]

I bet the Ma'lta boy and other prehistoric males with R haplogroup looked more like Ainu people than modern-day mongoloids:
http://www.oldphotosjapan.com/images/486.jpg
https://archive.li/17PZO/6e56dcc117566faf71fa9c62e6f4cbb10bd13dcb.jpg
http://www.ultrakulture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Old-Ainu-Man.jpg

[Rereg]

I2 = Very first Europeans

Bullshit, prehistoric WHG males had usually C haplogroup which is "mongoloid" haplogroup.