State the main phenotypes among these Mediterranean-looking fully ethnic French MPs from Paris

[Tooting Carmen]

According to Sikeliot, Assyrians look as or more similar to South Italians than French people do. xD

http://www.ordif.com/repository/102/1021877115/16083495.jpghttp://www.francebleu.fr/sites/default/files/imagecache/462_ressource/2013/12/10/1095100/images/okbachelay-alexis.jpghttp://www.zdnet.fr/i/edit/ne/2008/03/39379627/08-patrick-bloche.jpghttp://www.my-angers.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/jean-marie-le-guen.jpghttp://www.ps95.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/doucet2.jpghttp://www.armenews.com/IMG/arton49626-300x332.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5101/5578738091_66f4f27e2c.jpghttp://static.lexpress.fr/medias/2410/1233920.jpg

N.B. Here is the whole set: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?119799-MPs-from-Ile-De-France-(Greater-Paris-region)

[Sikeliot]

Ok these look more Basque-like than anything else, more Iberian than Italian.

This one actually is Berid though, looks Portuguese.

http://www.zdnet.fr/i/edit/ne/2008/03/39379627/08-patrick-bloche.jpg

[Havomrak]

Dinaro-Med (Baskid) I think.

[Tooting Carmen]

Ok these look more Basque-like than anything else, more Iberian than Italian.

This one actually is Berid though, looks Portuguese.

http://www.zdnet.fr/i/edit/ne/2008/03/39379627/08-patrick-bloche.jpg

Except maybe him (given your longstanding insistence that Portuguese people are absolutely unpassable in Italy), most could pass throughout Italy to varying degrees though, couldn't they?

[Sikeliot]

Except maybe him (given your longstanding insistence that Portuguese people are absolutely unpassable in Italy), most could pass throughout Italy to varying degrees though, couldn't they?

Not so much in the far south, but probably in the north yes.

[Sikeliot]

"According to Sikeliot, Assyrians look as or more similar to South Italians than French people do. "


Correct. The people above do not look southern Italian, they look like Basques if anything. You overestimate how dark the French are.

[Tooting Carmen]

"According to Sikeliot, Assyrians look as or more similar to South Italians than French people do. "


Correct. The people above do not look southern Italian, they look like Basques if anything. You overestimate how dark the French are.

No, to me the French are very varied and far from being either the lightest or the darkest Europeans. Rather, I feel that you overestimate the similarity between South Italians and Near Eastern groups, despite the fact that (a) South Italians are still essentially European, even if one of the darkest groups and (b) Arabids, Turanids, Iranids etc. are just as alien to Southern Italy as they are to anywhere else in Europe. Only the minority of Near Easterners who look mostly or wholly East Med or possibly even Armenoid can pass well.

[Sikeliot]

No, to me the French are very varied and far from being either the lightest or the darkest Europeans. Rather, I feel that you overestimate the similarity between South Italians and Near Eastern groups, despite the fact that (a) South Italians are still essentially European, even if one of the darkest groups and (b) Arabids, Turanids, Iranids etc. are just as alien to Southern Italy as they are to anywhere else in Europe. Only the minority of Near Easterners who look mostly or wholly East Med or possibly even Armenoid can pass well.

You overestimate it with Iberians to MENA groups and Greeks as well though.

Maybe that is true but you are overestimating the number of southern French who actually look "Mediterranean" when most look Atlantid, Alpine, Nordid, etc. Would you say most French can also pass in Greece and in Malta, or Bulgaria? To me they look like a darker version of Brits. I used to say this about Iberians but it isn't true for them, it is on the other hand very true for the French.

[Tooting Carmen]

You overestimate it with Iberians to MENA groups and Greeks as well though.

Maybe that is true but you are overestimating the number of southern French who actually look "Mediterranean" when most look Atlantid, Alpine, Nordid, etc. Would you say most French can also pass in Greece and in Malta, or Bulgaria? To me they look like a darker version of Brits. I used to say this about Iberians but it isn't true for them, it is on the other hand very true for the French.

Yes, British and French people are very similar, but this overlooks the fact that Britain also has (by Northern European standards) a relatively strong Mediterranean streak, though still smaller than France's.

[Sikeliot]

Yes, British and French people are very similar, but this overlooks the fact that Britain also has (by Northern European standards) a relatively strong Mediterranean streak, though still smaller than France's.

So now you're going to say Brits pass in southern Italy too? :rolleyes:

Answer this. What percent of French fit to you in some capacity in Albania, Greece, Cyprus, Malta, Sicily? I am curious for estimates. I suspect them to be FAR lower than my own.

[Tooting Carmen]

So now you're going to say Brits pass in southern Italy too? :rolleyes:

Answer this. What percent of French fit to you in some capacity in Albania, Greece, Cyprus, Malta, Sicily? I am curious for estimates. I suspect them to be FAR lower than my own.

A few Brits can, but admittedly they're rare. Anyway, I'm sure 20-30% of French people (some regions more, others fewer) can fit reasonably well in said places, without necessarily looking identical to the native populations.

[Sikeliot]

A few Brits can, but admittedly they're rare. Anyway, I'm sure 20-30% of French people (some regions more, others fewer) can fit reasonably well in said places, without necessarily looking identical to the native populations.

What you need to understand is dark Brits usually still look "northern" and not passable in southern Europe.

Anyway, I guess I meant what percent of each of those places pass in France. I asked it the wrong way. I still disagree that half of southern Italians pass. More like 15-20%.

[Tooting Carmen]

What you need to understand is dark Brits usually still look "northern" and not passable in southern Europe.

Anyway, I guess I meant what percent of each of those places pass in France. I asked it the wrong way. I still disagree that half of southern Italians pass. More like 15-20%.

How do these Brits look to you? http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?180354-Would-people-agree-with-my-divisions-of-Europe-into-the-following-seven-groups&p=3748006&viewfull=1#post3748006

That said, I agree that Brits like those below do look distinctly Northern despite their darker features:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/George_osborne_hi.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/12/article-2551589-1B319C5200000578-630_306x423.jpghttps://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/780x10001.jpg

[Sikeliot]

They look like they are not full ethnic Brits (those in the link). The ones above look NW European but dark.

Ok I want to know, what percent of people in Greece, in Calabria/Sicily, Malta, Cyprus and Albania pass in France to you? Not the other way around. I suspect our estimates will differ.

[Tooting Carmen]

They look like they are not full ethnic Brits (those in the link). The ones above look NW European but dark.

Ok I want to know, what percent of people in Greece, in Calabria/Sicily, Malta, Cyprus and Albania pass in France to you? Not the other way around. I suspect our estimates will differ.

Hard to be precise, but at least 20-25% for most groups bar Cypriots, who'd be below 20% for sure. (Again, WITHOUT necessarily looking identical to the native population).

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Marmara]

http://www.ps95.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/doucet2.jpg

Passes well in Turkey, maybe also Middle-East.

Doesn't even look like a "European looking" Turk. He would thought to be East Anatolian and even Kurdish perhaps.

[Tooting Carmen]

http://www.ps95.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/doucet2.jpg

Passes well in Turkey, maybe also Middle-East.

Doesn't even look like a "European looking" Turk. He would thought to be East Anatolian and even Kurdish perhaps.

Do any of the others also pass easily in Turkey?

[Marmara]

Do any of the others also pass easily in Turkey?

Not really, they don't fit well.

[The Blade]

The five men posted in this thread represent different phenotypes and each would fit best in a different region.
Not all of them display Mediterranean qualities. Most are of mixed type and second one is even the opposite of a Mediterranean, as he has Armenoid morphology and must be very brachycephalic.
Tooting Carmen probably means they are on the southern side of French looks spectrum with which I agree.
Anyway, taxonomy-wise, first man seems to be a Paleo Atlantid (not a Berid, he's not alpinised) and can fit even in Northern Europe.
Swedish Paleo Atlantids from Bertil Lundman:
http://b2.ifrm.com/67/29/0/p512850/Image103434.jpg
Second man I already classified as Armenoid. I don't know if he is fully French or has some Jewish ancestry but he comfortably fits in West Asia.
Man on the left on third row is an interesting case. His phenotype is quite mixed - large Mediterranean + Taurid + CM + Alpine. If I see him on the street here, I would guess him as Turkish.
Man on the right on this same row is a typical Dinaro-Med case - pan-Southern European type.
Last man is a fairly Gracile Mediterranean - can pass in Southern Italy and Iberia.
The discussion on this matter between Sikeliot and Tooting Carmen is something I've observed before and I certainly agree with Tooting Carmen.
He has a balanced view of French people, imo - French as a group are lighter than Italians, Spanish or Portuguese but definitely darker in terms of hair colour, eye colour and overall pigmentation than British and Irish people (no need to compare the French to Dutch and Scandinavians) and significantly more Mediterranean. The notion of Brits as strongly Mediterranean influenced or hybrid between Northern and Southern populations is utterly wrong, believed by few people and on this forum is mostly promoted by Bloody who has become notorious for his darkwashing of UK/Ireland.
One thing I would like some people here to understand is that purely Mediterranean types among the British and the Irish (I have observed them in a highest degree among the Welsh) are rare and of Atlanto-Mediterranean type. In France, on the other hand, Gracile Mediterraneans aren't rare and even East Meds can be found.
The Northern types of UK and Ireland that have Mediterranean admixture (Paleo Atlantid and Atlantid) can be observed throughout Western and Southern Europe. They are also present in France and can easily fit in Spain, Portugal, Northern Italy and Bulgaria.
I have seen such types even among Sikeliot's posts of Madeirans and Sicilians.
Southern Europe is the melting pot of the continent, as many scientists have pointed out. Not Northern or Northwestern Europe.
Conquest of the continent happened mainly from the north to the south and from the south to the centre.
Roman rule over Britain was unstable and restricted to certain areas. Not many Romans settled there, too.
Scandinavia and most parts of The Netherlands were never ruled by the Romans, unlike France which even speaks a Romance language nowadays.
Any Mediterranean admixture in Scandinavia is either of very archaic origin or a product of later random migrations.
The Roman Empire at its peak:
http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/peak-of-roman-empire.gif
A map of modern Europe:
https://geology.com/world/cia/map-of-europe.gif
The French are, on the other hand, between Southern and Northern Europe. However, what people sometimes underestimate are the brachy elements in France. While certainly Aurignacids of both Northern and Southern variety (and blends of such) can be found in good numbers among the French, there is still an abundance (a much stronger one than in Britain or Ireland) of Dinaric and Alpine types in the country.
Many Iberians, Italians and Balkan people (including Greeks) fit comfortably in France and not only on the southern (but also intermediate and northern) side of French looks spectrum.
The ones from the above-mentioned regions who fit as typical/common types in UK or Ireland are certainly a smaller number.
Sicilians are significantly West Asian/Levantine influenced on average (though many of them, on the other hand, are not) and Maltese are even more MENA shifted, so using them as an example of how Northern shifted or unpassable in the south French people are is pointless and wrong, in my opinion.

[Odin]

Atlantids and Dinarids.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Ok these look more Basque-like than anything else, more Iberian than Italian.

This one actually is Berid though, looks Portuguese.

http://www.zdnet.fr/i/edit/ne/2008/03/39379627/08-patrick-bloche.jpg

That polician is Patrick Bloche and he is Atlanto-Med, nothing Berid about his skull. His look is common all over France.

http://www.catherine-baratti-elbaz.fr/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Patrick-Bloche.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Patrick_Bloche-100208.jpg/220px-Patrick_Bloche-100208.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2193/2124056399_3b48142442_z.jpg?zz=1

[Zroota]

Ok these look more Basque-like than anything else, more Iberian than Italian.

This one actually is Berid though, looks Portuguese.

http://www.zdnet.fr/i/edit/ne/2008/03/39379627/08-patrick-bloche.jpg
This guy is more within the Atlantid range than anywhere near Berid.