Nordic people are NOT pure Indo-Europeans

[Nordicist]

The evidence? 25-40% of Norwegian and Swedish men have Y-Haplotype I-M170 (a descendant of Y-Haplotype IJ). Countries that are known to be heavily influenced by Indo-European invaders have Y-Haplotype R1a1 (Poland, Russia, and northern India, with a very moderate distribution in Germany and Scandinavia).

The point: Hitler and the Nazis were wrong.

[Berahthraban]

What are you talking about, didn't you know that Nordic people and other Europeans have indigenous Hunter-Gatherer ancestry?
I-M170 is the only haplogroup that is native to Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170
http://webperso.mediom.qc.ca/~steeve21/I1d/I_Distribution.jpg

[spanish catalan]

the pure indo europeans are iranians and pakistanis :ranger:

[sql]

the pure indo europeans are iranians and pakistanis :ranger:

Not even remotely true

[spanish catalan]

Not even remotely true

and what are your candidates?

[sql]

and what are your candidates?

I don't know, and I never claimed to know, however Iranians have Afroasiatic admixture (and likely some other admixture as well), and Pakistanis are mixed with the original inhabitants of the region with some Middle Eastern as well.

[Pennywise]

What are you talking about, didn't you know that Nordic people and other Europeans have indigenous Hunter-Gatherer ancestry?
I-M170 is the only haplogroup that is native to Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170
http://webperso.mediom.qc.ca/~steeve21/I1d/I_Distribution.jpg

That means they're not true Indo-Europeans. You are verifying him.

[Berahthraban]

That means they're not true Indo-Europeans. You are verifying him.

Yes, that was my intention. It sounded like he had made some new discovery, and I want to show that the rest of Europe also has a lot of haplogroup I.

[Pennywise]

Yes, that was my intention. It sounded like he had made some new discovery, and I want to show that the rest of Europe also has a lot of haplogroup I.

Yes, most Indo-European speakers today are not originally descended from historical Indo-Europeans. They were linguistically assimilated.

[Berahthraban]

Yes, most Indo-European speakers today are not originally descended from historical Indo-Europeans. They were linguistically assimilated.

At least not fully descended, but partly. What ethnic group would be the closest to historical Indo-Europeans?

[Pennywise]

At least not fully descended, but partly. What ethnic group would be the closest to historical Indo-Europeans?

Not sure but probably R1a1 carrier ethnic groups. Beacuse they are usually correlated with that haplogroup. East Europeans are seems to be closest ones to them. East Europe is also original homeland of Indo-Europeans.

[Neon Knight]

What are you talking about, didn't you know that Nordic people and other Europeans have indigenous Hunter-Gatherer ancestry?
I-M170 is the only haplogroup that is native to Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170
http://webperso.mediom.qc.ca/~steeve21/I1d/I_Distribution.jpg

My maternal haplogroup, H5a, could well be native to Europe:


Subclade H5a
The one known subclade of H5 is H5a, defined by T4336C in the control region, which has its own subclades of H5a1 and H5a2. H5a is thought to be around 7000–8000 years old, in other words the mutation T4336C probably occurred c. 5500 BC. It is fairly evenly distributed at low levels across Europe. The average in samples from Austria, Germany, Hungary, Macedonia and Romania was 2.4%. Yet it is almost absent from the Caucasus and the Near East, suggesting a European origin. Although it was initially thought to have its highest level on the central European plain, more recent research has shown the highest levels in Iberia, the Balkans and Finno-Scandia. The British Isles was excluded from the latter study, but the former showed that H5a does occur there.


Ancient DNA
Studies of ancient DNA have found H5 in four individuals of around 6800 BC from the Pre-pottery Neolithic B site of Tell Halula, Syria. H5a has been found in a Tagar (800 BC–100 AD) man on the Russian steppe whose Y-DNA was R1a1a and in Margrethe, 11th century AD Queen of Denmark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H5_%28mtDNA%29#Subclade_H5a

[revealman]

The evidence? 25-40% of Norwegian and Swedish men have Y-Haplotype I-M170 (a descendant of Y-Haplotype IJ). Countries that are known to be heavily influenced by Indo-European invaders have Y-Haplotype R1a1 (Poland, Russia, and northern India, with a very moderate distribution in Germany and Scandinavia).

The point: Hitler and the Nazis were wrong.
yeah thats true, haplogroup I evolved from its forefather haplgroup J, as middle easterners settled in southern europe and balkans the haplogroup J later evolved during paleolithic into haplogroup I

so haplogroup I found in scandinavia was originally from balkans, serbia and bosnia have the strongest haplogroup I

[Nordicist]

Haplotype J is not only found as far east as India but can be found in very low levels among native Han Chinese and Koreans. I guess some Arabs traveled east and mated with some East Asian women long ago.

[coolstorybro]

My guess is that blue eyes is the best marker of indignious European stock while light hair is Indo-European. This would explain why blondes are more numerous in Ukraine/Russia, which is where the Indo-Europeans came from.

[Swarthist]

Nordics are native Europeans, original IEs were Eurasian invaders.

[Jana]

Pure indo-Europeans simply don't exist anymore. Closest to them would be modern Russians I guess.

[Swarthist]

Pure indo-Europeans simply don't exist anymore. Closest to them would be modern Russians I guess.

Why not Ukrainians and other East Slavs?

[Jana]

Why not Ukrainians and other East Slavs?

There are people far more knowledgable than me on this, so ask them :) I associate ANE with Indo-Europeans.

[Furnace]

We never claimed to be it in the first place, we have lots of mesolithic hunter-gatherer DNA.

[i'llseeyouinhell]

Not even remotely true

Dat avatar :cool: