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Ethnic Russian Teachers Still Struggle with Estonian (http://news.err.ee/culture/c98c2300-3cac-4a9b-a205-f8b90445379d)
Among teachers from Russian-language schools, 70 percent still do not have sufficient Estonian language skills, but the situation is now improving, said Ilmar Tomusk, Director of the Language Inspectorate.
"It's too difficult to give an exact number because that is constantly changing. A lot of teachers who took the language proficiency exam between 1992 and 1999 still do not meet requirements," Tomusk told ERR.
Tomusk asserted that competence in the official state language is an essential professional requirement for schoolteachers. He argued that employers should not hire those who do not meet professional standards, and concerning school staff, substandard language skills may be sufficient grounds for dismissal.
"The language inspectorate can issue written orders, but we do not have the authority to discharge people from work. Therefore, we can't monitor how many teachers are let go because of inadequate language skills," Tomusk said. "Some of the Russian-language schools in Tallinn and Ida-Viru County are showing weak results in teaching Estonian. However, the situation is gradually improving."
The nationwide overhaul for Russian-curriculum high schools to adopt an extensive Estonian-language program began in 2007. Beginning in the 2011/2012 school year, Russian-curriculum high schools are required to teach 60 percent of their material in Estonian. Subjects include Estonian literature, social studies and music.
Tomusk added that many teachers have received additional training in connection with the overhaul.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 04:07 PM
Do you Estonians want Russians to become Estonian?
Living on an Island, I have a different perspective to continental Europeans, but I would think that the best solution would be to partition and autonomise an area in Eastern Estonia, where Russian speakers are already predominant, and call it Russian Estonia.
The same goes for Latvia and Lithuania.
There will always be cultural, racial and linguistic minorities, but why would you want to absorb a population which derives from disparate regions of the old Russian Empire anyway?
If they were from just over the border, that would be understandable, but they are a random collection of Russian-speakers, are they not?
Do you Estonians want Russians to become Estonian?
They have their own education system, is there any other possible way we could give more privileges to Russian culture? Not really.
I did recently read a story from the local newspaper which said that Estonian language in Estonia is more endangered than Swedish in Finland. Although Swedes are a minority in Finland and Estonians are a majority in Estonia.
Living on an Island, I have a different perspective to continental Europeans, but I would think that the best solution would be to partition and autonomise an area in Eastern Estonia, where Russian speakers are already predominant, and call it Russian Estonia.
The same goes for Latvia and Lithuania.
There will always be cultural, racial and linguistic minorities, but why would you want to absorb a population which derives from disparate regions of the old Russian Empire anyway?
If they were from just over the border, that would be understandable, but they are a random collection of Russian-speakers, are they not?
Autonomous districts in Estonia for the Russians will be created, if the same is done in Germany for the Turks, in Sweden for the Somalis and autonomous districts also in the UK for the people from Pakistan.
The Estonian immigrant population has more privileges than in other European countries. No Pakistanis in the UK can learn in official Pakistani schools, teached by Pakistani teachers and in the Pakistani language.
Creating autonomous districts for the Russians in Estonia is just as insane as creating autonomous districts for Algerians in France or for the Turks in Germany.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 04:15 PM
Creating autonomous districts for the Russians in Estonia is just as insane as creating autonomous districts for Algerians in France or for the Turks in Germany.
Not really. That is not a fair comparison because there is a Russian community just over the border.
Do Estonians want these Russians to become naturalised Estonians?
This would be like Russians wanting Estonians to become Russian, which started the problem in the first place.
Not really. That is not a fair comparison because there is a Russian community just over the border.
So? Estonians need to get a visa to visit Russia.
Do Estonians want these Russians to become naturalised Estonians?
There are bigger changes of Pakistanis in the UK being naturalised, than Russians in Estonia.
The Russian language and Russian culture have more privileges in Estonia than other immigrant populations have in other European countries.
I do not know how assimilation would be possible if one's culture and language are in a privileged state.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 04:27 PM
There are bigger changes of Pakistanis in the UK being naturalised, than Russians in Estonia.
The Russian language and Russian culture have more privileges in Estonia than other immigrant populations have in other European countries.
I do not know how assimilation would be possible if one's culture and language are in a privileged state.
Explain yourself clearly.
What you are suggesting is that Russian-Estonians should become naturalised Estonians within the context of Estonian cultural imperialism.
Why not just geographical separation following the establishment of separate cultural and political institutions?
What happened to Estonians to make them want to assimilate Russians, who are a different people?
Explain yourself clearly.
What you are suggesting is that Russian-Estonians should become naturalised Estonians
I nor anyone else wants Russians to become Estonians. Most of us just want them to learn Estonian.
within the context of Estonian cultural imperialism.
Wut? o_O
Why not just georgraphical separation following the establishment of separate cultural and political institutions?
Well, most of them live in urban areas, in Tallinn and a county in Eastern-Estonia. During elections they vote for the pro-Russian candidates, who are Russians(at least in Eastern-Estonia).
Even in Tallinn, the pro-Russian, populist, leftist party is currently in rule.
What happened to Estonians to make them want to assimilate Russians, who are a different people?
No one wants to assimilate Russians, especially me. Russians are completely foreign to our genepool and most of them do not look like us and are considerably darker.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 04:45 PM
I nor anyone else wants Russians to become Estonians. Most of us just want them to learn Estonian.
Why do you want them to learn Estonian?
Well, most of them live in urban areas, in Tallinn and a county in Eastern-Estonia.
Which could become an autonomous region called Russian-Estonia.
No one wants to assimilate Russians, especially me. Russians are completely foreign to our genepool and most of them do not look like us and are considerably darker.
No, but you want them to learn Estonian and then do what, exactly?
Really, people do not know what they have got until it is gone.
What were the population figures for Russian-speakers in pre-Soviet times?
Baltic people are earning a stereotype of being jealous, for being moaners and for victimhood.
This is not constructive and smacks of screaming Inese.
Why do you want them to learn Estonian?
For the same reason why Pakis in the UK speak English and Turks in Germany speak German.
Imagine getting a taxi and the driver doesn't speak a word of English or going to a store and the cashier not speaking a word of English. Surreal, isn't it?
Which could become an autonomous region called Russian-Estonia.
Wtf?
No, but you want them to learn Estonian and then do what, exactly?
Speaking the language of the country where you live in, should be pretty basic.
Only in Estonia, you can work and go to school without speaking Estonian. That's why I am saying that Estonia supports immigrants more than the UK, France, Germany or Sweden.
Imagine the majority of the Paki population in your area not speaking a word of English, it wouldn't be possible, as your country isn't so supportive towards preserving their culture and language.
Really, people do not know what they have got until it is gone.
What were the population figures for Russian-speakers in pre-Soviet times?
92 000 in 1934, but they didn't cause any problems, like the modern Russians currently are causing.
Baltic people are earning a stereotype of being jealous, for being moaners and for victimhood.
This is not constructive and smacks of screaming Inese.
Why did you bring Balts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts) into the discussion? This is purely about Russians. If you were referring to Estonians as Baltic people, then you're ignorant or just uneducated. Estonians aren't Baltic people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts).
Do you Estonians want Russians to become Estonian?
No, Estonians want Russians to be be able to speak Estonian if they want to live in Estonia and be citizens of Estonia.
Living on an Island, I have a different perspective to continental Europeans, but I would think that the best solution would be to partition and autonomise an area in Eastern Estonia, where Russian speakers are already predominant, and call it Russian Estonia.
Russians are predominant in the North-Eastern corner of the country because Estonians were sent to Siberia or relocated elsewhere, and not allowed to return to their homes. That region is also where our electricity comes from and where we have various natural resources (this is also why the region also had so many Russian workers pouring in during the occupation).
There will always be cultural, racial and linguistic minorities, but why would you want to absorb a population which derives from disparate regions of the old Russian Empire anyway?
Nor can we live with a problematic fifth column. It's obvious they won't leave (especially not to Russia, only towards the West if anywhere at all).
If they were from just over the border, that would be understandable, but they are a random collection of Russian-speakers, are they not?
Estonian Russians do have various backgrounds:
1.The Old Believers, religious refugees who came when Estonia was part of Sweden.
2. The Russian White Army veterans (and other Tsarist refugees) who stayed in Estonia after the Estonian War of Independence.
3. The Soviet industrial workers and soldiers who stayed here during the Soviet occupation.
Some Russians have become integrated. The Soviets/Putinists even have a pejorative term - "integrast" which they use for the Russians who have integrated (they speak the language, know the culture, have Estonian citizenship and are supportive of Estonia) or want to integrate.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 05:16 PM
For the same reason why Pakis in the UK speak English and Turks in Germany speak German.
Imagine getting a taxi and the driver doesn't speak a word of English or going to a store and the cashier not speaking a word of English. Surreal, isn't it?
I do not want foreigners in my country to speak English, I want them to go, and I do not wish to integrate with them, at all.
Imagine the majority of the Paki population in your area not speaking a word of English, it wouldn't be possible, as your country isn't so supportive towards preserving their culture and language.
More whining and jealously. Even if they speak English, they are still racist cultural imperialists. I just want them to go or shrivel away.
Why did you bring Balts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts) into the discussion? This is purely about Russians. If you were referring to Estonians as Baltic people, then you're ignorant or just uneducated. Estonians aren't Baltic people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts).
Wikipedia states that Estonia is Baltic in terms of geopolitics.
No, Estonians want Russians to be be able to speak Estonian if they want to live in Estonia and be citizens of Estonia.
Do you want them to be Estonian citizens?
Russians are predominant in the North-Eastern corner of the country because Estonians were sent to Siberia or relocated elsewhere, and not allowed to return to their homes. That region is also where our electricity comes from and where we have various natural resources (this is also why the region also had so many Russian workers pouring in during the occupation).
Do you want to naturalise these Russians, or do you have another agenda?
Nor can we live with a problematic fifth column. It's obvious they won't leave (especially not to Russia, only towards the West if anywhere at all).
What do you propose other than moaning?
1.The Old Believers, religious refugees who came when Estonia was part of Sweden.
2. The Russian White Army veterans (and other Tsarist refugees) who stayed in Estonia after the Estonian War of Independence.
3. The Soviet industrial workers and soldiers who stayed here during the Soviet occupation.
Would you not rather these people became a free autonomous people and a nuisance to the Russian state on the Russian border?
Some Russians have become integrated. The Soviets/Putinists even have a pejorative term - "integrast" which they use for the Russians who have integrated (they speak the language, know the culture, have Estonian citizenship and are supportive of Estonia) or want to integrate.
Which is what you want. This desire is a reaction to the Russification of Estonia and is borne of victimhood.
I do not want foreigners in my country to speak English, I want them to go, and I do not wish to integrate with them, at all.
30% of the population of Estonia not speaking Estonian... living in such a country would be difficult.
More whining and jealously. Even if they speak English, they are still racist cultural imperialists. I just want them to go or shrivel away.
I also want the immigrants to leave Estonia, but they'd rather whine and revolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night) and demand more privileges, than go back to their inferior and less advanced Motherland. Russians didn't leave Estonia, even if Putin offered them free homes and jobs in 2006.
Wikipedia states that Estonia is Baltic in terms of geopolitics.
You called Estonians, Baltic people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts), which is false. Our country may be called Baltic, but there's nothing Baltic about the people, nor do any Balts live here.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 05:41 PM
30% of the population of Estonia not speaking Estonian... living in such a country would be difficult.
Moaning bordering on jealously and resentment.
I also want the immigrants to leave Estonia, but they'd rather whine and revolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night) and demand more privileges, than go back to their inferior and less advanced Motherland. Russians didn't leave Estonia, even if Putin offered them free homes and jobs in 2006.
So instead, you want them to speak Estonian, rather than establish an autonomy.
You called Estonians, Baltic people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts), which is false. Our country may be called Baltic, but there's nothing Baltic about the people, nor do any Balts live here.
Semantic argument... Next!
I think that the problem might be that Estonians have lived with Russian cultural imperialism for so long that they have little concept of what it is to be an ethno-state. Estonian ethnic consciousness has been defined by cultural imperialism, and is now a mirror image of Russian imperialism, just as the Palestinian identity exists in opposition to Zionism.
poiuytrewq0987
08-19-2010, 05:44 PM
Russians are obviously not going anywhere anytime soon (largely because of the fact that Russia borders Estonia). There are three things Estonians can do about the Russians in Estonia. The first is genocide but I'm pretty sure that is not an option. The second is assimilation of Russians by forcing them to assimilate into Estonian culture. The third is containment, create special Russian privileges, not everywhere in Estonia but rather in Eastern portion of Estonia and grant them autonomous rule there. The third option is definitely possible and can be carried out if there were popular support for such cause.
Moaning bordering on jealously and resentment.
So instead, you want them to speak Estonian, rather than establish an autonomy.
Semantic argument... Next!
I think that the problem might be that Estonians have lived with Russian cultural imperialism for so long that they have little concept of what it is to be an ethno-state. Estonian ethnic consciousness has been defined by cultural imperialism, and is now a mirror image of Russian imperialism, just as the Palestinian identity exists in opposition to Zionism.
You're delusional
Russians are obviously not going anywhere anytime soon (largely because of the fact that Russia borders Estonia). There are three things Estonians can do about the Russians in Estonia. The first is genocide but I'm pretty sure that is not an option. The second is assimilation of Russians by forcing them to assimilate into Estonian culture. The third is containment, create special Russian privileges, not everywhere in Estonia but rather in Eastern portion of Estonia and grant them autonomous rule there. The third option is definitely possible and can be carried out if there were popular support for such cause.
Out of the three options you talked about, the third is the most similar to the situation here. They have privileges, they even have their own education system, their own schools, their own teachers etc.
Would you not rather these people became a free autonomous people and a nuisance to the Russian state on the Russian border?
The idea you continually promote is nothing new, it's very common among local Russian and neo-Soviet imperialist circles, but they want it to be more like Kosovo, Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This is the problem we shall be facing (the threat of losing an area that is stategically extremely important to Estonia). Come on, some people down there don't even know which is the upper colour of the Estonian flag. There are thousands of Russian citizens and stateless people there, and we should be giving them autonomy out of good faith so that they'll somehow become loyal to Estonia and start liking Estonians, and what is more laughable, them becoming a nuisance to Russia? :D There can be no thought of an autonomy unless the Russians there become extremely loyal Estonian citizens (and the question is, will they even want to be autonomous in such case)... or if Russia pulls off what they did in Georgia.
poiuytrewq0987
08-19-2010, 06:20 PM
You're delusional
Out of the three options you talked about, the third is the most similar to the situation here. They have privileges, they even have their own education system, their own schools, their own teachers etc.
Yes, that they do have that indeed. However that sort of policy is not containment, it's called Russian assimilation of Estonians. ;)
The proper way to do it would be to designate a specific region in Estonia for Russians to live like Russians but if they want to live outside that region, they'll have to learn Estonian. And since Russians largely don't want to assimilate, there should be no problem in carrying out such thing, no?
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 06:25 PM
Out of the three options you talked about, the third is the most similar to the situation here. They have privileges, they even have their own education system, their own schools, their own teachers etc.
Moaning and jealously.
Why not just ask for the same for ethnic Estonians rather than deny these Russian-Estonians their cultural identity?
The only thing missing for the Russian-Estonian population is an autonomous region, which would help delineate between Russian-Estonians who want to be Russian and those who feel more Estonian and might be racially and thence culturally attuned to that identity, in other words, suitable new Estonians. I am sure that they exist; my own background consists of German speakers with Polish surnames and Anglicised Scots.
Those who wish to be Russian could be so, in an autonomous Russian-Estonian state, which would be a thorn in the Russian imperialists' side, and a bonus for Estonian preservation.
If the moaning and whinging continues, ethnic Estonians will end up with far less, or indeed with nothing, much like many Baltic peoples whose histories and languages are slowly being consigned to the history books and anthropological tomes.
If you are unwilling to grant Russian-Estonians their own autonomous region, then why not at least demand separate territory for ethnic Estonians?
Perhaps moaning and victimhood have become too much of a habit for ethnic Estonians.
Yes, that they do have that indeed. However that sort of policy is not containment, it's called Russian assimilation of Estonians. ;)
The proper way to do it would be to designate a specific region in Estonia for Russians to live like Russians but if they want to live outside that region, they'll have to learn Estonian. And since Russians largely don't want to assimilate, there should be no problem in carrying out such thing, no?
Moaning and jealously.
Why not just ask for the same for ethnic Estonians rather than deny these Russian-Estonians their cultural identity?
The only thing missing for the Russian-Estonian population is an autonomous region, which would help delineate between Russian-Estonians who want to be Russian and those who feel more Estonian and might be racially and thence culturally attuned to that identity, in other words, suitable new Estonians. I am sure that they exist; my own background consists of German speakers with Polish surnames and Anglicised Scots.
Those who wish to be Russian could be so, in an autonomous Russian-Estonian state, which would be a thorn in the Russian imperialists' side, and a bonus for Estonian preservation.
If the moaning and whinging continues, ethnic Estonians will end up with far less, or indeed with nothing, much like many Baltic peoples whose histories and languages are slowly being consigned to the history books and anthropological tomes.
If you are unwilling to grant Russian-Estonians their own autonomous region, then why not at least demand separate territory for ethnic Estonians?
Btw, the Western-Estonian islands are almost 100% Estonian, that's also the reason why they have the lowest amount of crime.
Perhaps moaning and victimhood have become too much of a habit for ethnic Estonians.
Do the Turks of Germany have specific regions which are autonomous, I doubt it.
For some reason, both of you think that Russians as immigrants are something different from the Turks of Germany, Somalis of Sweden, Algerians of France and Pakis of the UK.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 07:09 PM
For some reason, both of you think that Russians as immigrants are something different from the Turks of Germany, Somalis of Sweden, Algerians of France and Pakis of the UK.
I would ask you the question: how are they similar and how are they different?
You seem to be suggesting that they are comparable to these immigrant populations, which they are not, as your country borders upon theirs.
Why are you not asking for their deportation or secession, rather than their assimilation by cultural imperialism?
There is something decidedly emotionalist about the Estonian mindset and like British jingoism and British alcoholism, this is a cultural weakness for Estonians.
I might return to this thread later on, when Estonians have lost what they never knew they had, and Estonia has Pakistani, Turkish, Somali and Algerian immigrant communities to contend with.
What use will your pleading, screaming passive-aggression be then?
As I said, shades of Inese.
I would ask you the question: how are they similar and how are they different?
You seem to be suggesting that they are something similar, which they are not as your country borders upon theirs.
Why are you not asking for their deportation or secession, rather than their assimilation by cultural imperialism?
Do you think that I and other Estonians want that the Russians stay here? Nothing would make me more happier than the deportation of all those inferior creatures, but it's impossible now. The majority have Estonian citizenship.
Btw, cultural imperialism doesn't exist in Estonia.
There is something decidedly emotionalist about the Estonian mindset and like British jingoism and British alcoholism, this is a cultural weakness for Estonians.
What weaknesses are you talking about?
I might return to this thread later on, when Estonians have lost what they never knew they had, and Estonia has Pakistani, Turkish, Somalian and Algerian immigrant communities to contend with.
Estonia doesn't have a welfare system like in Sweden or the UK. No lazy 3rd world immigrants would want to come here.
What use will your pleading, screaming passive-aggression be then?
As I said, shades of Inese.
What passive-aggression are you talking about and I do not see how Inese is related to Estonia or Estonians in any possible way. Why do you bring Balts into the discussion?
poiuytrewq0987
08-19-2010, 07:37 PM
Do you think that I and other Estonians want that the Russians stay here? Nothing would make me more happier than the deportation of all those inferior creatures, but it's impossible now. The majority have Estonian citizenship.
:rolleyes: I hope you get hit by a bus but I fear that would be a fate far too kind.
For some reason, both of you think that Russians as immigrants are something different from the Turks of Germany, Somalis of Sweden, Algerians of France and Pakis of the UK.
Are you dyslexic? Russia borders Estonia. Do Turkey or Pakistan border Germany or the UK? NO. And you comparing them to Turks, Pakis and Somalis are even worse and highly idiotic.
poiuytrewq0987
08-19-2010, 07:40 PM
As I said, shades of Inese.
Nah, he's just pissed because a Russian married his sister. ;)
:rolleyes: I hope you get hit by a bus but I fear that would be a fate far too kind.
I do not think highly of immigrants in my country, is that a crime :p
Are you dyslexic? Russia borders Estonia. Do Turkey or Pakistan border Germany or the UK? NO. And you comparing them to Turks, Pakis and Somalis are even worse and highly idiotic.
and Estonia borders Latvia, but there aren't any Latvians here nor Estonians there. What's your point?
poiuytrewq0987
08-19-2010, 07:41 PM
If Russians are considered inferior to Pooh then gee, I must be inferior in his eyes too. And everyone else who live in the southern portion of Europe.
Nah, he's just pissed because a Russian married his sister. ;)
Get your facts straight... My sister isn't married.
If Russians are considered inferior to Pooh then gee, I must be inferior in his eyes too. And everyone else who live in the southern portion of Europe.
You're only inferior if you come to my country as an immigrant and start robbing people by threatening to stab them with a needle which has HIV on it.
poiuytrewq0987
08-19-2010, 07:43 PM
and Estonia borders Latvia, but there aren't any Latvians here nor Estonians there. What's your point?
Russia is a country of 130+ million people, it's an inevitable fact that them as a high pop country would spread to other countries. Such was the case with the Ottomans and even today that is continuing. At least Russians are Europeans whereas the Ottomans aren't.
poiuytrewq0987
08-19-2010, 07:44 PM
You're only inferior if you come to my country as an immigrant and start robbing people by threatening to stab them with a needle which has HIV on it.
You speak as if that is exclusive to Russians.
Russia is a country of 130+ million people, it's an inevitable fact that them as a high pop country would spread to other countries. Such was the case with the Ottomans and even today that is continuing. At least Russians are Europeans whereas the Ottomans aren't.
The population density in Russia is smaller than in Estonia. The colonization of Estonia was one part of the plan to wipe Estonians off the planet. Luckily the USSR collapsed in 1991 and their plan is only partially done.
You speak as if that is exclusive to Russians.
In Estonia, it is.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 07:56 PM
Do you think that I and other Estonians want that the Russians stay here? Nothing would make me more happier than the deportation of all those inferior creatures, but it's impossible now. The majority have Estonian citizenship.
Btw, cultural imperialism doesn't exist in Estonia.
How about the cultural imperialism that demands that Russian-Estonians learn and communicate in Estonian. Blind spot much?
What weaknesses are you talking about?
Emotionalism and passive-aggression, the combination of which often results in the women of the Baltic states seeking employment within the sex industry abroad.
Estonia doesn't have a welfare system like in Sweden or the UK. No lazy 3rd world immigrants would want to come here.
Not yet, and Estonia would have to have a comparable economy for such a system to be a possibility or to be a desirable half-way house for the globalist agenda.
The poorer, less developed, less militaristic states of Europe have no idea.
What passive-aggression are you talking about and I do not see how Inese is related to Estonia or Estonians in any possible way. Why do you bring Balts into the discussion?
As nations which have been oppressed by the Russian state, Latvians and Estonians have more in common than they realise, as they define their identity in opposition to that oppression, and passively so, as moaning victims.
Emotionalism prevents logical rational thought.
How about the cultural imperialism that demands that Russian-Estonians learn and communicate in Estonian. Blind spot much?
You're practically saying that all countries in the world are culturally imperialistic, because they demand that the citizens would speak the official language?
Emotionalism and passive-aggression, the combination of which often results in the women of the Baltic states seeking employment within the sex industry abroad.
Hahaha, you're talking about Russian traits then? I never noticed that Russians are passive-aggressive, the're literally aggressive.
Not yet, and Estonia would have to have a comparable economy for such a system to be a possibility or to be a desirable half-way house for the globalist agenda.
Our economic system is ranked very highly when compared to other economic systems in the EU. If the conservatives are in power, then we won't have such a lousy welfare system.
As nations which have been oppressed by the Russian state, Latvians and Estonians have more in common than they realise, as they define their identity in opposition to that oppression, and passively so.
When I think that I'm Estonian, I do not automatically think that I should "oppose Russians". Wtf are you talking about?
Estonians have been here for the last 11 000 years, my ethnic identity isn't created by 50 years of foreign occupation.
Emotionalism prevents logical rational thought.
I'm not Inese, go talk about Emotionalism to someone else.
poiuytrewq0987
08-19-2010, 08:05 PM
You're practically saying that all countries in the world are culturally imperialistic, because they demand that the citizens would speak the official language?
You demand that Russians speak Estonian yet at the same time you don't want them to live in Estonia. You can't pick both, at least be straightforward instead of pussying around about what your actual stance is.
You demand that Russians speak Estonian yet at the same time you don't want them to live in Estonia. You can't pick both, at least be straightforward instead of pussying around about what your actual stance is.
Well, they're already living in Estonia, I can't decide if they live here or not.
What should I do? Round up all the Russians, put them on animal wagons and ship them to Russia? They're here and no one can get rid of them. Not even Putin could lure them back to Russia.
poiuytrewq0987
08-19-2010, 08:11 PM
Well, they're already living in Estonia, I can't decide if they live here or not.
What should I do? Round up all the Russians, put them on animal wagons and ship them to Russia? They're here and no one can get rid of them. Not even Putin could lure them back to Russia.
Telling them to go back is like telling an Englishman who came to the Americas in the 1800s to go back to England.
Telling them to go back is like telling an Englishman who came to the Americas in the 1800s to go back to England.
Go tell a Türk in Germany to go back to Türkey and then tell a Russian in Estonia to GTFO back to Russia. Either way you'll get stabbed.
Anglo people founded the US, you do know that? While Russians are recent immigrants in Estonia and comparable to Turks in Germany and Somalis in Finland.
Eldritch
08-19-2010, 08:12 PM
Telling them to go back is like telling an Englishman who came to the Americas in the 1800s to go back to England.
Elaborate?
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 08:20 PM
What should I do? Round up all the Russians, put them on animal wagons and ship them to Russia? They're here and no one can get rid of them. Not even Putin could lure them back to Russia.
Somebody suggested creating an autonomous region for Russians in Estonia.
Imagine that.
What would you moan about then?
Somebody suggested creating an autonomous region for Russians in Estonia.
Imagine that.
What would you moan about then?
So Russia could get control over a strategic area of Estonia? No thanks.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 08:31 PM
Our economic system is ranked very highly when compared to other economic systems in the EU. If the conservatives are in power, then we won't have such a lousy welfare system.
The EU and globalist and WTO agenda is to destoy all competition between nation states in favour of a globalist hegemony.
Estonia has not yet reached the point where the subversion of Estonia's national economy is a priority for those globalists.
If anything Estonia is a beneficiary of the EU superstate, for the time being at least.
All your 'conservatives' will do is privatise your national assets and bring you in line with the globalist agenda.
I cannot believe how 'new' you are.
The EU and globalist and WTO agenda is to destoy all competition between nation states in favour of a globalist hegemony.
Estonia has not yet reached the point where the subversion of Estonia's national is a priority for those globalists.
If anything Estonia is a beneficiary of the EU superstate, for the time being at least.
Actually, isn't the EU's goal to make all its states economically equal and minimize the wealth differences?
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 08:41 PM
Actually, isn't the EU's goal to make all its states economically equal and minimize the wealth differences?
Yes, and at present, Estonia is not a target for subversion, unlike the UK, for example, which is the enemy of both international capitalism and international socialism.
How is the national debt of Estonia now, and how much of this was racked up by loans from foreign banks?
Yes, and at present, Estonia is not a target for subversion, unlike the UK, for example, which is the enemy of both international capitalism and international socialism.
How is the national debt of Estonia now, and how much of this was racked up by loans from foreign banks?
The national debt of Estonia is the lowest in the entire EU, that was one of the reasons why the Estonian economy was ranked 2nd most sustainable(together with Denmark) in the EU, after Sweden.
According to Eurostat, Estonia’s loan burden among 27 member states is the lowest and was 3.5 percent of GDP in 2007.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 08:50 PM
The national debt of Estonia is the lowest in the entire EU, that was one of the reasons why the Estonian economy was ranked 2nd most sustainable(together with Denmark) in the EU, after Sweden.
If Estonia were to deviate from the democratic socialist / globalist agenda or elect an economic nationalist party to government, then there would be a coordinated attack on Estonian economic national sovereignty, just as there was an attack by the US establishment on the UK and other European economies before, during and after WWII.
At this point Estonia can only reform from what remains of socialism to benefit that agenda. Just wait until Estonia reaches tipping point and see what happens.
Your conservatives are frauds and traitors and they will sell you down the river if they can.
Do your conservatives want to take Estonia back out of the EU? If not, they are traitors.
If Estonia were to deviate from the democratic socialist / globalist agenda or elect an economic nationalist party to government, then there would be a coordinated attack on Estonian economic national sovereignty, just as there was an attack by the US administration on the UK economy before, during and after WWII.
At this point Estonia can only reform from what remains of socialism to benefit that agenda. Just wait until Estonia reaches tipping point and see what happens.
Your conservatives are frauds and traitors and they will sell you down the river.
I strongly disagree with that statement.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 09:17 PM
I strongly disagree with that statement.
That is lovely, but do they want to take Estonia back out of the EU?
If not, they are traitors and frauds.
I can barely believe that you are so 'new'.
EDIT: the Austrian FPOe even had support from Margaret Thatcher's British Conservative Party when they were committed to privatising Austria's national tobacco company and postal service.
That support was a means to a political end, much like the support that the British Tories offered General Pinochet of Chile.
That is lovely, but do they want to take Estonia back out of the EU?
If not, they are traitors and frauds.
I can barely believe that you are so 'new'.
The only people opposing joining the EU in 2004 were the pro-Russian, leftist, populists. If it wouldn't be for the rightist conservatives, then Estonia could be a Russian satellite state.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 10:02 PM
The only people opposing joining the EU in 2004 were the pro-Russian, leftist, populists. If it wouldn't be for the rightist conservatives, then Estonia could be a Russian satellite state.
What do you expect? How can you be so 'new'? :rolleyes:
This points to the success of Soviet brainwashing and the internationalist subversion of Estonian politics.
I had a little googley exploration and there are simply no political movements for the autonomous continuation of Estonia but for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Independence_Party (Eesti Iseseisvuspartei)
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Christian_Democrats (Erakond Eesti Kristlikud Demokraadid)
The rightist 'conservative' movements were probably under the direction of the CIA and MI6 who were working against the Russian State. Once those movements begin to work for the increased integration of the national economy of Estonia, you should know that there is trouble for Estonia.
In the UK, the Conservative and Unionist Party remains Russophobic and will oppose the influence of the Russian State at every opportunity.
Many ex-Russian oligarchs live and invest in London with impunity.
What do you expect? How can you be so 'new'? :rolleyes:
This points to the success of Soviet brainwashing and the internationalist subversion of Estonian politics.
I had a little googley exploration and there are simply no political movements for the autonomous continuation of Estonia but for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Independence_Party (Eesti Iseseisvuspartei)
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Christian_Democrats (Erakond Eesti Kristlikud Demokraadid)
The rightist 'conservative' movements were probably under the direction of the CIA and MI6 who were working against the Russian State. Once those movements begin to work for the increased integration of the national economy of Estonia, you should know that there is trouble for Estonia.
In the UK, the Conservative and Unionist Party remains Russophobic and will oppose the influence of the Russian State at every opportunity.
Many ex-Russian oligarchs live and invest in London with impunity.
They're both dead parties.
This is one of the reasons why the Estonian Independence Party isn't very popular:
http://www.patriot.nu/bilder/artiklar/080522_risto4.jpg
Eldritch
08-19-2010, 10:19 PM
This is one of the reasons why the Estonian Independence Party isn't very popular:
http://www.patriot.nu/bilder/artiklar/080522_risto4.jpg
Damn, they definitely should be more popular! That cake looks delicious.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 10:23 PM
They're both dead parties.
This is one of the reasons why the Estonian Independence Party isn't very popular:
http://www.patriot.nu/bilder/artiklar/080522_risto4.jpg
FFSAKE. Who put him up to that? :rolleyes:
That is hardly going to endear him to Estonian patriots nor those in favour of Estonian 'independence'.
It looks like the work of outsiders to me.
Who in Estonia is campaigning for co-operative economics and/or direct democracy?
EDIT:
Please come back to this thread when you're not under the influence of any drugs. Your posts are surreal.
How could anyone discuss the subject without drugs?
FFSAKE. Who put him up to that? :rolleyes:
It was purely his own idea, I think.
That is hardly going to endear him to Estonian patriots nor those in favour of Estonian 'independence'.
The funny thing is... he's Finnish :p
Who in Estonia is campaigning for co-operative economics and/or direct democracy?
The Green party in Estonia supports direct democracy.
How could anyone approach this subject matter without drugs?
I have never tried any illegal drugs, if I could live without them, then so can you.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 10:51 PM
It was purely his own idea, I think.
He was an idiot and had nothing to say for Estonia.
The funny thing is... he's Finnish :p
Nothing is funny. He probably was working to discredit the Estonian national interest.
The Green party in Estonia supports direct democracy.
If they were to 'win' they would soon be made redundant. :rolleyes:
I have never tried any illegal drugs, if I could live without them, then so can you.
Yes, but I doubt that because you probably assume that legal drugs are somehow innocuous, yet you do not even know which foodstuffs influence consciousness.
What little you do know.
Many foodstuffs, let alone drugs, dull human consciousness, and so we have the poorest people in our societies binging on sugar, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol and many other psychoactive substances besides, not to mention meat, fish, eggs, chocolate, onion, garlic and mushrooms.
The allium family is well known amongst the scientific community as a disruptor of right-left brain co-ordination, but the food industry prefers to promote their poisons along with the lucrative waste products of livestock.
Livestock production is intrinsically linked to capitalist hegemony along with the fluoridation of toothpaste and water, factory farming and genetically modified crops.
If they were to 'win' they would soon be made redundant. :rolleyes:
I think that they're sincere.
Yes, but I doubt that because you proabably assume that legal drugs are somehow innocuous, and you do not even know which foodstuffs influence consciousness.
What little you know.
Many foodstuffs, let alone drugs, dull human consciousness, and so we have the poorest people in our societies binging on sugar, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol and many more psychoactive substances besides, not to mention meat, fish, eggs, chocolate, onion, garlic and mushrooms.
The allium family is known amongsy the scientific community to disrupt right-left brain co-ordination, but the food industry prefer to promote their poison along with the lucrative waste products of livestock.
Livestock production is intrinsically linked to capitalist hegemony.
I do not drink coffee, I do not smoke and I rarely drink alcohol. Thus I do not have any problems with illegal nor legal drugs. I also do not consume large amounts of sugar. I do not drink coke and such crap.
Fortis in Arduis
08-19-2010, 10:59 PM
I do not drink coffee, I do not smoke and I rarely drink alcohol. Thus I do not have any problems with illegal nor legal drugs. I also do not consume large amounts of sugar. I do not drink coke and such crap.
Yet, you probably consume physically intoxicating foods with regularity, with the assumption that they are entirely harmless.
Yet, you probably consume physically intoxicating foods with regularity, with the assumption that they are entirely harmless.
Not really. A large portion of my food is from a rural area, which I have helped to grow/gather. Honey, eggs, potatoes, carrots, peas, pumpkins, strawberries etc.
For instance, in my entire lifetime, I have never eaten honey which is bought from a store, I have gotten my honey directly from the beehives. When drinking tea or anything similar, then I use honey instead of sugar.
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