Real nationalists versus pan-Europeanists - which one are you?

[Tooting Carmen]

(1) Real nationalists - "European nationalities and ethnic groups look different from each other. Swedes look one way, Poles look another way, Austrians look one way, Spaniards look another way, Greeks another way etc. etc. and let that be that."

Pan-Europeanists - "Everyone in Europe looks pretty much the same and the distinctive darker types in Southern Europe are not real natives, but Gypsies, immigrants and assimilated Turks".

(2) Real nationalists - "Each country has the right to govern itself according to its own laws, traditions and customs."

Pan-Europeanists - "We need a one-size-fits-all model for all of Europe, which in practice means rule by Germany."

(3) Real nationalists - "Each European language has the right to exist and is valuable in its own right."

Pan-Europeanists - "In order to achieve European unity, everyone in Europe should speak English and sod all the other languages."

[Berahthraban]

I stand behind everything you say about real nationalists. We do look different from each other, but at the same time alike compared to the rest of the world. It goes without saying that every European country should be able to govern themselves and keep their own language, that is extremely important to me. But I don't think that Pan-Europeanism has to mean what you defines it as. I fully support my European people, therefore I am a European nationalist. A way of seeing it is that we are different tribes of the same people. Nonetheless, people that think like the people you call Pan-Europeanists is a very different kind of nationalism, definitely something else.

[Tooting Carmen]

Anybody else?

[Berahthraban]

Anybody else?

Nope, you're stuck with me.

[Damião de Góis]

A real nationalist is not gonna make considerations about other people and countries. That's more my line of thought.

[Journeyman26]

Nationalism has nothing to do with ethnicity... a nation is a geo-political designation, thus nation-alism is a geopolitical matter. Ethnicity is just a tool often used by a nation to build national unity, whether ethnic or historic associations exist at all.

[Linebacker]

The one that gets both of them butthurt.

[ClassifyThisDocument]

For a country to work you need ONE CULTURE, ONE VOLK. The ony reason that Switzerland is so great is because Germans are the MAJORITY there, the french and italian cantons are a disaster, which proves that even the smallest differences are really gigantic.

[Jehan]

the french and italian cantons are a disaster

You must have very high standard to beleive Geneve or Lausanne are disaster.
Geneve is just the six biggest financial place in the world...

[Profileid]

The one that gets both of them butthurt.

And what is that?

[Peterski]

(1) Real nationalists - "European nationalities and ethnic groups look different from each other. Swedes look one way, Poles look another way, Austrians look one way, Spaniards look another way, Greeks another way etc. etc. and let that be that."

Pan-Europeanists - "Everyone in Europe looks pretty much the same and the distinctive darker types in Southern Europe (...)

In question (1), I am 100% a pan-Europeanist.


(2) Real nationalists - "Each country has the right to govern itself according to its own laws, traditions and customs."

Pan-Europeanists - "We need a one-size-fits-all model for all of Europe, which in practice means rule by Germany."

(2) I agree with real nationalists, but I am also not against close friendship between European nations. Not under one hegemony though, but as a true partnership of independent nations.

So here I am split 75/25 between nationalists and pan-Europeanists.


(3) Real nationalists - "Each European language has the right to exist and is valuable in its own right."

Pan-Europeanists - "In order to achieve European unity, everyone in Europe should speak English and sod all the other languages."

(3) I say that every language has the right to exist, but a lingua franca is also a good idea.

So I am split 50/50 on this question.

==============

Overall score:

Pan-Europeanist versus real nationalist:

Question (1) - 100 / 0
Question (2) - 25 / 75
Question (3) - 50 / 50

Total - 175 (58%) versus 125 (42%)

This means that I am slightly more of a pan-Europeanist.

[Linebacker]

And what is that?

I am a Syrian refugee.

[Neon Knight]

Using Litvin's analysis:

Pan-Europeanist versus real nationalist:

Question (1) - 50 / 50 (A general European look but with significant regional differences. Immigrants preferred from nearby countries then other European countries.)
Question (2) - 25 / 75 (Independent nations with basic trade agreements and military cooperation within an alliance.)
Question (3) - 25 / 75 (Regional cultural preservation should be supported but English as a second language for non-British/Irish obviously makes sense.)

Total - 100 (33%) versus 200 (67%) so I am a British nationalist but with significant empathy for Europe.

[Ülev]

pan R1ethelism for ever!

[Iltirbas]

Pan-European nationalism is almost as silly as white nationalism.

[Neon Knight]

Nationalism has nothing to do with ethnicity... a nation is a geo-political designation, thus nation-alism is a geopolitical matter. Ethnicity is just a tool often used by a nation to build national unity, whether ethnic or historic associations exist at all.Fair comment, but civic nationalism can exist in combination with the stricter form of ethno-nationalism.

[Unome]

Europeans should be dominated by one central pan-nationalist movement and authority.

Non-europeans should be given a second-class citizenship status and populations strictly regulated (lower than 5-15% of a host population depending on the country).

[Peterski]

Pan-European nationalism is almost as silly as white nationalism.

Neither of the two is silly.

[Insuperable]

1. Real nationalist
2. Real nationalist, but having close cooperation and friendship with other European countries
3. Real nationalist (English spoken as a secondary language, same as now)

[Rethel]

(1) Real nationalists - "European nationalities and ethnic groups look different from each other. Swedes look one way, Poles look another way, Austrians look one way, Spaniards look another way, Greeks another way etc. etc. and let that be that."

Pan-Europeanists - "Everyone in Europe looks pretty much the same and the distinctive darker types in Southern Europe are not real natives, but Gypsies, immigrants and assimilated Turks".

(2) Real nationalists - "Each country has the right to govern itself according to its own laws, traditions and customs."

Pan-Europeanists - "We need a one-size-fits-all model for all of Europe, which in practice means rule by Germany."

(3) Real nationalists - "Each European language has the right to exist and is valuable in its own right."

Pan-Europeanists - "In order to achieve European unity, everyone in Europe should speak English and sod all the other languages."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMgnJDXd3k

[A-ha]

Pan-nationalism? Why not.

I am pan-europeanist, but I believe in language and culture diversity, rather than making people speak English. As for law, economy and governance, the Swiss confederation system seems good enough to by applied EU-wide.

[Rethel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMgnJDXd3k

[Wanderer]

Nationalism has nothing to do with ethnicity... a nation is a geo-political designation, thus nation-alism is a geopolitical matter. Ethnicity is just a tool often used by a nation to build national unity, whether ethnic or historic associations exist at all.
I disagree. I see ethnicity & nation as pretty much identical. The political boundaries of a country ultimately do not determine ethnicity or nation. Only blood kinship does. Citizenship pertains to a kind of affiliation with the statehood of a country, rather than its nationhood. Politically, I support the concept of the nation-state.

[Hellenas]

Real Nationalist.


(1) Real nationalists - "European nationalities and ethnic groups look different from each other. Swedes look one way, Poles look another way, Austrians look one way, Spaniards look another way, Greeks another way etc. etc. and let that be that."

(2) Real nationalists - "Each country has the right to govern itself according to its own laws, traditions and customs."

(3) Real nationalists - "Each European language has the right to exist and is valuable in its own right."

These.

[Rethel]

Only blood kinship does.

So you must convert to rethelism, becasue in otherway, you will be talking a nonsense.

[Rethel]

Real Nationalist.

But it is senseless at now.

[Wanderer]

So you must convert to rethelism; you will be talking a nonsense.

/fixed

[Rethel]

/fixed

:picard2:

You want to have a society woth blood bounds, without blood bounds...
awesomely "clever", really... very typical for every dreaming wannabe...

[Hellenas]

But it is senseless at now.

You say.

[Wanderer]

:picard2:

You want to have a society woth blood bounds, without blood bounds...
awesomely "clever", really... very typical for every dreaming wannabe...
You make no sense, lol.

[Rethel]

You make no sense, lol.

But you make much, thinking, that becasue
granny was a Huculess, you are a Kozak :laugh:

[Wanderer]

But you make much, thinking, that becasue
granny was a Huculess, you are a Kozak :laugh:
Lol.

I consider it my blood-right to call myself Ukrainian.

[Rethel]

Lol.

I consider it my blood-right to call myself Ukrainian.

Granny doeasn't make you an Ukrainian.
She is not even from Ukraine, and they
do not even like each other, but what
american wannabe can know about it...

[Wanderer]

Granny doeasn't make you an Ukrainian.
She is not even from Ukraine, and they
do not even like each other, but what
american wannabe can know about it...
I have 2 Ukrainian grandparents, not one. And they were both from Ukraine. Ethnic Ukrainians.

[Rethel]

I have 2 Ukrainian grandparents, not one.

Which ones?


And they were both from Ukraine. Ethnic Ukrainians.

In Galizia and in Poltava lived two, totally different ethnicities,
if you want to talking about any identity there. Poltava these
are Moskalians, in Galizia - couple of different petty folks. And
they complitly does not recognized each other. Those from
Galizia, wish even to builed a wall, and take out all Moskalites,
Kozaks and even Kijów, becasue they are foreigners for them.
I knew, and still know many real Ukrainians, you are living by
granny's stories and own imagination about some country on
the mao whole life being behind Great Water, not having even
contact with reality. You are probably a Pole or Italian, who
simply don;t know anything about himself, so glue himself to
the grannies stories becasue it was simple and easy, when you
had identoty crisis, or you suffered from lack of history.

Many people do such things, you are not the only one.

[Wanderer]

In Galizia and in Poltava lived two, totally different ethnicities,
False!

[Rethel]

False!

You wish. You do not even speak
Kiyewian, so how can you know.

You made so many disscussions, but you
do not know basics, and you do not want
reveal your real identity. It is so shamefull...

[Bezprym]

Nicely cherrypicked ideas.

[Wanderer]

Very true.

You made so many disscussions, but you
do not know basics, and you do not want
reveal your real identity. It is so shamefull...
Yes, we have already discussed this to some degree of depth, hence the occasional brevity in my responses because I don't feel like repeating myself. How have I not revealed my ethnic identity? I am practically shouting it from the rooftops! I discussed in at length with you, et al., in the "are you proud of your ethnicity?" thread.

[Rethel]

Yes, we have already discussed this to some degree of depth, hence the occasional brevity in my responses because I don't feel like repeating myself. How have I not revealed my ethnic identity? I am practically shouting it from the rooftops! I discussed in at length with you, et al., in the "are you proud of your ethnicity?" thread.

One post above, I asked you 10th time about
something, but you didn;t answered. Again.

So, do not pretened an idiot, ok?