A forgotten European civilization

[d3cimat3d]

The mainstream academic view holds that writing first appeared during the Sumerian civilization in southern Mesopotamia, around 3300-3200 B.C. in the form of the Cuneiform script. This first writing system did not suddenly appear out of nowhere, but gradually developed from less stylized pictographic systems that used ideographic and mnemonic symbols that contained meaning, but did not have the linguistic flexibility of the natural language writing system that the Sumerians first conceived. These earlier symbolic systems have been labeled as Proto-writing, examples of which have been discovered in a variety of places around the world, some dating back to the 7th Milennium B.C.

One such early example of a proto-writing system is the Vinča script, which is a set of symbols depicted on clay artifacts associated with the Vinča culture, which flourished along the Danube River in the Pannonian Plain, between 6000-4000 B.C.


http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/756PX-1.png

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlements_of_the_Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillian_cul ture)

The first major population boom in Europe was the product of the Vinca & Cucuteni-Tryptillian cultures.



The Vinca & Cucuteni-Tryptillian cultures are the first civilizations to flourish in Europe & to build the cities with 15,000+ inhabitants. Major cities began in modern day Moldova & Ukraine even before Mesopotamian cities ever started.

*Talianki, Ukraine – circa 3700 B.C. – up to 15,000 inhabitants, up to 2,700 houses, and covered an area of 450 hectares (1100 acres). Talianki is the largest and best studied Trypillian settlement in Ukraine.

*Dobrovody, Ukraine – circa 3800 B.C. – up to 10,000 inhabitants, and covered an area of 250 hectares (600 acres).

*Maydanets, Ukraine – circa 3700 B.C. – up to 10,000 inhabitants (probably between 6000 to 9000 inhabitants), up to 1575 houses, and covered an area of 270 hectares (660 acres).

*Nebelivka, Ukraine - covered an area of 300 hectares (740 acres).


http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/362262.jpg

Source ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlements_of_the_Cucuteni%E2%80%93Trypillian_cul ture)

My thoughts on the subject are that both the Cucuteni-Tryptillain culture and the Vinca dissapeared because of a bad location on the steppes. Various bandits to the east of the Dnepr caused the decline of these civilizations in events which were similar to the declne of central American civilizations like the Maya & Olmec. Eventually the two cultures of the Balkans abandoned their settled ways and became nomadic, thats how the swastika, a important symbol of the Vinca writing system eventually got all the way into northern India.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/756PX-11.png

The Cucuteni-Tryptillian culture even invented the weel, of which both Mesopotamians & steppe bandits stole from them and claimed it as their own invention.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/cucuteni3950-3650.png

So the first cities, first writing, first wheels can all be credited to south-east Europe & not Mesopotamia like once was thought.

[Albion]

Wow, very interesting. I didn't know about this.

[Wulfhere]

The Megalithic Civilisation of the British Isles and Western Europe is even older.

[Osweo]

The Megalithic Civilisation of the British Isles and Western Europe is even older.

Hmm, except that it isn't. :rolleyes2: Scroll up the page and check a few dates.


(Civilisation is a bit of a weird word to use for Vinc'a, though... Applying it to Cucuteni-Tripolye isn't without complications, either... )

[Radojica]

My thoughts on the subject are that both the Cucuteni-Tryptillain culture and the Vinca dissapeared because of a bad location on the steppes. Various bandits to the east of the Dnepr caused the decline of these civilizations in events which were similar to the declne of central American civilizations like the Maya & Olmec. Eventually the two cultures of the Balkans abandoned their settled ways and became nomadic, thats how the swastika, a important symbol of the Vinca writing system eventually got all the way into northern India.



I am not sure about Tryptillian culture, but Vince culture was settled alond Danube bank, very good located with planty of food and fresh water sources all the way from today's Belgrade southern part to the Djerdap cannon (Romanian border). Knowing that, they were naturally protected from one side which was easy to protect from invaders. The reasons for their abandoning of those locations are not known as far as I know, but migrations might be one of them, as you stated. I know for foundings near Vinca, Starcevo and Lepenski vir, all of them along Danube river, and if I google a bit more I am sure there's even more of them, but I am now too lazy for that.

[d3cimat3d]

I am not sure about Tryptillian culture, but Vince culture was settled alond Danube bank,

Vinca, Tryptillian & Hamangia cultures are all intertwined with each other and in my opinion, it would be better to unite them into one culture because all three share a common element... They would purposely burn their houses down for some reason that is still unknown.



The archeological evidence shows that a vast majority (perhaps even all) of the Cucuteni-Trypillian settlements were completely burned every 75–80 years, leaving behind successive layers comprised mostly of large amounts of rubble from the collapsed wattle-and-daub walls.

Although there have been some attempts to try to replicate the results of these ancient settlement burnings, no modern experiment has yet managed to successfully reproduce the conditions that would leave behind the type of evidence that is found in these burned Neolithic sites, had the structures burned under normal conditions.

Whether the houses were set on fire in a ritualistic way all together before abandoning the settlement, or each house was destroyed at the end of its life (e.g. before building a new one) it is still a matter of debate.


http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/Burned_House_Horizon_Map.png

All three of these cultures are associated with the introduction of farming into Europe, which eventually replaced hunting since farming is much more efficient and can sustain huge populations like the towns of the Tryptillians.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/coomap.jpg



I know for foundings near Vinca, Starcevo and Lepenski vir, all of them along Danube river, and if I google a bit more I am sure there's even more of them, but I am now too lazy for that.

Here are some Starcevo figures found in southern Serbia & Kosova.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/vincaa.jpg
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/vinca.jpg
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/vinca_copper.jpg

[Osweo]

The cultures are distantly related, but quite distinct. I studied all this donkey's years ago, and have forgotten most beyond the general impressions, but I can at least say that reputable scholars have supposed that Cucuteni was inhabited by IEans of some variety, possibly even of the linguistic ancestors of Greeks and Slavs, and that VInca was probably non-IE, or a 'cousin' like Etrusco-Lemnian or the like....

Some shared cultural practices like house burning might be as irrelevant as what car modern Europeans drive, indeed.

[d3cimat3d]

scholars have supposed that Cucuteni was inhabited by IEans of some variety, possibly even of the linguistic ancestors of Greeks and Slavs, and that VInca was probably non-IE, or a 'cousin' like Etrusco-Lemnian or the like....

Tryptillians started building hill forts prior to their end, something which they never did in their early history. Marijas Gimbutas has credited Tryptillia's decline to mounted Indo-Europeans from the east. So sure, I'm not doubting Trypillians became Indo-Europeanized at some point.



Some shared cultural practices like house burning might be as irrelevant as what car modern Europeans drive, indeed.

It's not even comparable to the cars Europeans drive. Intentionally burning down your house is not something you just do one morning. This is a rare practice and is a good marker of this/these culture(s).

[Radojica]

Vinca, Tryptillian & Hamangia cultures are all intertwined with each other and in my opinion, it would be better to unite them into one culture because all three share a common element... They would purposely burn their houses down for some reason that is still unknown.









Here are some Starcevo figures found in southern Serbia & Kosova.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/vincaa.jpg
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/vinca.jpg
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/vinca_copper.jpg

Firstly, what is Kosova? Is that something you are applying on bread for the breakfast, or :confused:? Ahh, you probably meant Kosovo and Metohija, right :rolleyes2:?

Secondly, Starcevo culture was not on Kosovo and Metohija, but in Northern parts of Serbia, Eastern parts of Romania, Croatia and SOuthern parts of Hungary which also has the name Starcevo-Keresh-Krish culture, which was named by the location of the biggest founding near the village Starcevo in Pancevo municipality, you mixed it with Vinca culture, just like the figure from your last picture (Lady of Vinca) which was found in Belo Brdo, 14 kilometers down the Danube from Belgrade.

[d3cimat3d]

Firstly, what is Kosova? Is that something you are applying on bread for the breakfast, or :confused:? Ahh, you probably meant Kosovo and Metohija, right :rolleyes2:?


Kosovo je Srpsko ;)



Secondly, Starcevo culture was not on Kosovo and Metohija, but in Northern parts of Serbia, Eastern parts of Romania, Croatia and SOuthern parts of Hungary

Starcevo, Vinca, Cucuteni-Tryptillia... Different names, same shit. All were Middle-Eastern farmers :D:D:D

[Radojica]

Kosovo je Srpsko ;)

Now I understand you ;)


Starcevo, Vinca, Cucuteni-Tryptillia... Different names, same shit. All were Middle-Eastern farmers :D:D:D

Uhh? Not at all. Firstly, they differ by the period they existed and secondly by the level of development. Vinca culture was one of the most advanced in the world at the time.


An archaeological site in southeastern Europe has shown its metal. This ancient settlement contains the oldest securely dated evidence of copper making, from 7,000 years ago, and suggests that copper smelting may been invented in separate parts of Asia and Europe at that time rather than spreading from a single source.
The find extends the known record of copper smelting by about 500 years, an archaeological team headed by Miljana Radivojević and Thilo Rehren of University College London reports in an upcoming Journal of Archaeological Science. The pair were joined by Serbian researchers, led by Dušan Šljivar of the National Museum Belgrade, and German scientists directed by Ernst Pernicka of the University of Tübingen.
Chemical and microscopic analyses of previously unearthed material from Serbia’s Belovode site have identified pieces of copper slag, the residue of an intense heating process used to separate copper from other ore elements. The raw material came from nearby copper-ore deposits in Serbia or Bulgaria, they add.
“Our finds provide the earliest secure dates for copper smelting and indicate the existence of different, possibly independent centers of invention of metallurgy,” Rehren says. Metallurgy is the process of extracting metals from ore in order to create useful objects.
Large numbers of copper artifacts have been found at southeastern European sites dating to more than 6,000 years ago, Rehren notes.
His proposal challenges a longstanding view that copper smelting spread to Europe after originating in or near the Fertile Crescent region of what’s now southern Iran. Archaeologists have dated copper smelting in the Middle East to about 6,500 years ago.
Although Belovode now stands as the world’s oldest known copper-smelting site, that status probably won’t last, remarks archaeologist Benjamin Roberts of the British Museum in London. “It’s likely we’ll see copper-smelting evidence at least contemporary with Belovode from the Fertile Crescent once research programs are in place at well-excavated sites,” he predicts.
Copper smelting may have originated in what’s now Turkey, comments archaeologist Christopher Thornton of the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. By 10,000 years ago, people living there were making beads and other ornaments from copper ore and heating the ore at low temperatures to make it more pliable, he says. Scattered evidence of early smelting in that region has yet to be thoroughly studied.
Roberts and Thornton agree that copper making was probably invented in one spot, either in Turkey or the Middle East.
Rehren’s group is now examining possible copper slag from sites in Turkey and Iran that date to 7,000 years ago or more.
Radiocarbon dates for animal bones excavated at Belovode indicate that the site was occupied from 7,350 to 6,650 years ago. Jewelry and other Belovode finds come from southeastern Europe’s ancient Vinča culture, known for having used copper vessels and other metal items.
Chemical analyses of metallic-looking bits from Belovode identified five pieces of copper slag. Large amounts of iron, manganese, zinc and cobalt in this material likely derived from smelted copper ores, Rehren’s team says. Differences in the concentration of elements across samples indicate that each was produced in a separate smelting event. Slag pieces were laced with ash from wood that presumably had been burned to create smelting temperatures of about 1,100° Celsius.
Microscopic studies of slag pieces revealed glassy areas and crystallized metal oxides that had formed during a process of heating the material until it liquefied, followed by cooling.
A drop of once-molten metal found in a Belovode house contains pure copper, the researchers add.
Lead-isotope ratios of the Belovode slag and the copper drop link them to ore deposits in Serbia and Bulgaria.
No smelting chambers, such as elongated ceramic cylinders recovered at later Copper Age sites in southwestern Asia, have been found at Belovode. Vinca residents may have dug pits for copper smelting, the scientists speculate.


http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/60563/title/Serbian_site_may_have_hosted_first_copper_makers

[Osweo]

Marijas Gimbutas
... was a feminist crank. ;) I look to central Europe for the PIE Urheimat, round Pannonia sort of area... :thumb001:


It's not even comparable to the cars Europeans drive. Intentionally burning down your house is not something you just do one morning. This is a rare practice and is a good marker of this/these culture(s).
Sticking a bunch of metal together and filling a bit of it with the refined Carbon remains of ancient forests and creatures of the Permian and Mesozoic, so that some round things made of rubber will spin round and propel the whole forward is not something you just do one morning either. ;) Quite comparable. A learned cultural activity. Perhaps with connection to concepts of the 'lifespan' of objects beyond the human and animal - up to houses themselves... There may have been some religious and ideological commonality behind the spread of this phenomenon, but there's no reason to assume a single ethnic culture was involved.

All were Middle-Eastern farmers :D:D:D
Do you count Anatolia as 'Middle Eastern'? There's some connection here with the farmers of the Zagros, but a lot happened in between them and the Palaeobalkan Neolithic farmers of Thracia. Perhaps several stages of assimilation and cultural exchange, diluting the initial 'racial' impact.

[d3cimat3d]

... was a feminist crank. ;) I look to central Europe for the PIE Urheimat, round Pannonia sort of area... :thumb001:


The P-I-E language has Caucasian & Uralic loan words. Pannonia just doesn't have the necessary elements to be the PIE homeland.



Do you count Anatolia as 'Middle Eastern'?

Yes.



Perhaps several stages of assimilation and cultural exchange, diluting the initial 'racial' impact.

Could be, but hJ correlated almost perfectly with the Neolithic expansions, but I somewhat agree that the racial impact dissolved as the farmers headed deeper into Europe.

Compare hJ with the Neolithic expansions:

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/coomap.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx70/MurderMaterial/HaploJ2.png

[Osweo]

The P-I-E language has Caucasian & Uralic loan words. Pannonia just doesn't have the necessary elements to be the PIE homeland.
Untrue. Not loanwords, just ... traits. And we are free to suppose that both one of the Caucasian families and Finno-Ugric were more widely spread in earlier times. There are indeed indications of some Caucasian type substrate in the Aegean, for instance. Indeed, I follow those who see the earliest Fertile Crescent farming as a rather NE Caucasian affair. What the Chechens are like in the present day is irrelevant.

Could be, but hJ correlated almost perfectly with the Neolithic expansions, but I somewhat agree that the racial impact dissolved as the farmers headed deeper into Europe.
As your maps well demonstrate.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

So the first cities, first writing, first wheels can all be credited to south-east Europe & not Mesopotamia like once was thought.

Ever thought that it was possible to develop and invent such things separately and without other influences?

A hint; did writing and cities in the Americas develop independently from or in relation with European/middle eastern civilízations?

[Guapo]

Wow, very interesting. I didn't know about this.

Because it's in Serbia, the Balkans. that's why you guys don't learn about it in school.

[Albion]

Because it's in Serbia, the Balkans. that's why you guys don't learn about it in school.

No, we learn about our own history and that of Rome, Egypt and Greece mainly. Greece is in the Balkans.

[Don]

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae39/Cedo2_2010/MapoflateNeolithicandearlyBronzeAgeculturesinEurop efromapproximately5000to4500yearsago.jpg?t=1285194 371
¿?!¿?!¿?!¿?!¿?!¿?!

Wait, wait....

... the "bell beakers" or the westerners, my ancestors, those cultures that have the traits that nowadays we understand as Celtics or Iberians, The megalithic cultures...



... are not R1B1 (the westerns) but Eastern, I2a2 "(formerly I1b) -typical of the Dinaric Slavs (Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks)-"?????


... wow...


Well, I know we are cool, and we are used to nordicists that claim our traits as theirs and so... but this is too much man.

Some kind of stealers of our culture, blood and identity.

Anyway. I don't care, I know we are cool, as I said and I congratulate myself that everybody wants to be part of me... but I don't remember have suffered a blood transfussion recently, sorry.

[Radojica]

¿?!¿?!¿?!¿?!¿?!¿?!

Wait, wait....

... the "bell beakers" or the westerners, my ancestors, those cultures that have the traits that nowadays we understand as Celtics or Iberians, The megalithic cultures...



... are not R1B1 (the westerns) but Eastern, I2a2 "(formerly I1b) -typical of the Dinaric Slavs (Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks)-"?????


... wow...


Well, I know we are cool, and we are used to nordicists that claim our traits as theirs and so... but this is too much man.

Some kind of stealers of our culture, blood and identity.

Anyway. I don't care, I know we are cool, as I said and I congratulate myself that everybody wants to be part of me... but I don't remember have suffered a blood transfussion recently, sorry.

What a fuck are you talking about? From which planet you fell? Lower down your nose as you are not so coooooool and unique as you think. :rolleyes2:

[Don]

What a fuck are you talking about? From which planet you fell? Lower down your nose as you are not so coooooool and unique as you think. :rolleyes2:

I'm sorry slavinists, easternists, but you are not part of my celtiberian roots, the substratus of most spaniards.

I'm really sorry if this makes you sick, as you prove by your reactions, anyway, I insist in celebrating that you appreciate us so much to want to these extremes of mythogenesis.



http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae39/Cedo2_2010/MapoflateNeolithicandearlyBronzeAgeculturesinEurop efromapproximately5000to4500yearsago.jpg?t=1285194 371
Bell Beaker megalithic cultures -(Western Europe) : I, I2, I2a...

I2a2 (formerly I1b) is typical of the Dinaric Slavs (Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks).

Wow... thanks :)

[Radojica]

I'm sorry slavinists, easternists, I'm sorry. :)

For what? Your arrogance and ignorance? No need to be sorry, better learn something new and wide up your views ;).

[Don]

For what? Your arrogance and ignorance? No need to be sorry, better learn something new and wide up your views ;).

I'm sorry for you, you have entered in a provocating and beligerant mode just because I reject this joke:


Bell Beaker megalithic cultures -(Western Europe) : I, I2, I2a...

I2a2 (formerly I1b) is typical of the Dinaric Slavs (Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks).


You are not spaniard and we, spanairds or westerners are not easterns.
But maybe you are right, I am "an ignorant" and I should learn something new about my own country, tu me enseñas? :tongue:tongue:tongue:tongue

Zapatero a tus zapatos.

Don't be upset, you like spain and spaniards, but that does not mean to try to defend senseless fantasies that defend the change of our identity and blood just because you like it.

Sorry, we are not eastern people, our sustratus is Celtiberian and these were westerners R1B. The dinarics in spain and the I2a2 is minimum.

:(



I know you like us, spaniards and you would love to come here, but that does not explains that you act like a child just because I reject that fantasy or I know perfectly and I am proud and totally aware about my nation origins and ehtnics.

[Saruman]

Some opinion about this letters and civilization?

Aryan, non-aryan...?

Civilization of us Balkan Cromagnoids it seems!! :cool: I think we should make a new language from Vinca scripts!! Screw latin and cyrilic scripts!:D
Skeletal remains from Lepenski Vir and Padina were mostly of Cromagnoid paleobalkanic stock.

@Don, for sure megalitic was Atlanto-Med, though Bell Beakers were Dinaroids, so I guess Basques resemble them somewhat in appearance(They are Atlanto-Med+Dinarid).

[Radojica]

I'm sorry for you, you have entered in a provocating and beligerant mode just because I reject this joke:




You are not spaniard and we, spanairds or westerners are not easterns.
But maybe you are right, I am "an ignorant" and I should learn something new about my own country, tu me enseñas? :tongue:tongue:tongue:tongue

Zapatero a tus zapatos.

Don't be upset, you like spain and spaniards, but that does not mean to try to defend senseless fantasies that defend the change of our identity and blood just because you like it.

Sorry, we are not eastern people, our sustratus is Celtiberian and these were westerners R1B. The dinarics in spain and the I2a2 is minimum.

:(



I know you like us, spaniards and you would love to come here, but that does not explains that you act like a child just because I reject that fantasy or I know perfectly and I am proud and totally aware about my nation origins and ehtnics.

But, what are you talking about bre? Amoebas then Spaniards :suspicious:? Celts, Goths, Visigoths and Slavs were living next to each other and among each other. Slavs came from the East. Celts were living in Central Europe. I don't understand what's your point at all :shrug:

Thing that I like Spain and Spanish people has nothing to do with this, but your totally out of context comments. Do you know anything else but history of Spain and paleo-Iberian history? History of Balkans, Eastern Europe, Middle East? Great migrations including the last big one in 5th and 6th century AD? Do you realize that you are ignoring everything which is written here, just to make some silly comment? When Mediterranean sea appeared, when did the connection between Black sea and Mediterranean sea appeared and where was the only connection (next to that one which appeared (you'll have to find that out) was going around Black sea? Modern Humans had to come somehow to Europe and I doubt they were swimming from Africa to Europe :wink.

[Don]

But, what are you talking about bre? Amoebas then Spaniards :suspicious:? Celts, Goths, Visigoths and Slavs were living next to each other and among each other. Slavs came from the East. Celts were living in Central Europe. I don't understand what's your point at all :shrug:

Thing that I like Spain and Spanish people has nothing to do with this, but your totally out of context comments. Do you know anything else but history of Spain and paleo-Iberian history? History of Balkans, Eastern Europe, Middle East? Great migrations including the last big one in 5th and 6th century AD? Do you realize that you are ignoring everything which is written here, just to make some silly comment? When Mediterranean sea appeared, when did the connection between Black sea and Mediterranean sea appeared and where was the only connection (next to that one which appeared (you'll have to find that out) was going around Black sea? Modern Humans had to come somehow to Europe and I doubt they were swimming from Africa to Europe :wink.



Ok you are right.
We are all Africans.
http://www.biblioteca.org.ar/libros/hipertextos%20de%20biologia/luci.gif

End of discussion.

[Radojica]

Ok you are right.
We are all Africans.
http://www.biblioteca.org.ar/libros/hipertextos%20de%20biologia/luci.gif

End of discussion.

No, we are all Spaniards.

Now it is end of discussion.

[Saruman]

Ok you are right.
We are all Africans.

End of discussion.

:D No. See:

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4333/ractree1yo9.jpg

[Don]

:D No. See:

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4333/ractree1yo9.jpg

I know another one, see:






Me
^
^
^
Adan-Eva

[Guapo]

Skeletal remains from Lepenski Vir were mostly of Cromagnoid paleobalkanic stock.

They belonged to the Brunn Cromagnid types, google it bro.

[Guapo]

I know another one, see:






Me
^
^
^
Adam-Steve


Fixed.

[Sisak]

Vuchedol checkerboard
http://i48.tinypic.com/2w2euee.jpgsourcehttp://www.posavski-vremeplov.com/zapisi-o-zemlji/od-pradomovine-do-domovine/

Vučedol culture - symbol of God and King -first European rulers

Arheological item that show it was here that the first proto-industrial revolution ocurred, show that the first mass production of the axe,that prehistoric weapon, also signaled the formation of the first European army, and rulers, for the axe was at the time a symbol not only of divine but also of regal power. In metallurgy, Vučedol was actually a step ahead of the known civilizations of the time, it is comparable only with the 21.century.
Vučedol is consecrated place, not just only for Croatia, but for the whole of Europe, which stil has not come cognitively to terms with these undeniable facts of its own history. Not that this can be held against it, for in Croatia to there are surely many who are not aware of the real meaning of Vučedol and Vučedol culture.

source http://www.scribd.com/doc/40558058/Simbol-Boga-i-KraljaPrvi-Europski-Vladari

[Gospodine]

This is pure speculation, but I have heard it argued on some forums that the Cucuteni-Trypillians migrated to the Near East (via Anatolia) after the decline of their culture due to Proto-Indo-European expansion and severe drought or climatic change that killed off their agriculture and then subsequently influenced the development of Sumerian Cuneiform with some kind of script similar to the Vinca-Tordos symbols.

Interesting to note though is that farming spread to Europe roughly a two millenia before the rise of the many Eastern-European/Balkan neolithic cultures like the Vinca/Cucuteni-Trypillians/Starčevo/Karanovo/Diminit/Linear Pottery; surely it's not beyond the realm of possibility that those Mesopotamian farmers who introduced agriculture into Europe via Anatolia might have maintained contact/trade with their ancestral homelands?

[Sisak]

Arheologist have found 5 different type of shoes on Vucedol archeological syte and center of a cheefdom.

[Partizan]

This is pure speculation, but I have heard it argued on some forums that the Cucuteni-Trypillians migrated to the Near East (via Anatolia) after the decline of their culture due to Proto-Indo-European expansion and severe drought or climatic change that killed off their agriculture and then subsequently influenced the development of Sumerian Cuneiform with some kind of script similar to the Vinca-Tordos symbols.

Interesting to note though is that farming spread to Europe roughly a two millenia before the rise of the many Eastern-European/Balkan neolithic cultures like the Vinca/Cucuteni-Trypillians/Starčevo/Karanovo/Diminit/Linear Pottery; surely it's not beyond the realm of possibility that those Mesopotamian farmers who introduced agriculture into Europe via Anatolia might have maintained contact/trade with their ancestral homelands?

I guess lingual/morphological proofs might help about the Sumerian-Vinca connection.

Take a look at those charts:

http://www.rovasirasforrai.hu/Forditasok/Comparison-between-sign-systems/Pict-09_Tabulation-1_Characters-Graphemes.jpg

http://www.rovasirasforrai.hu/Forditasok/Comparison-between-sign-systems/Pict-10_Tabulation-2_Combined-signs_Ligatures.jpg

http://www.rovasirasforrai.hu/Forditasok/Comparison-between-sign-systems/Pict-12_Tabulation-4_Numbers.jpg

http://www.rovasirasforrai.hu/Forditasok/Comparison-between-sign-systems/Pict-26_Some%20parallels-1_Tabulation.jpg

By the way, the Uralic(as well as Turkic) connection theory of Sumerians seems solid:

From Simo Parpola:

http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/Sumerian-Parpola.htm


34 years ago, Miguel Civil in his article "From Enki's headache to phonology" showed that late Sumerian ugu, "top of the head," is the same word as earlier a-g�; and from the alternation of a-g� with the divine name dab-�, he concluded that it probably originally contained a labiovelar stop in the middle (Fig. 6). Recently, Joan Westenholz and Marcel Sigrist have shown that beside "top of the head," ugu also means "brain." { Hungarian agy=brain} �Both formally and semantically, the Sumerian word thus matches the Uralic word *ajkwo "brain, top of the head," which can be reconstructed as containing a labiovelar stop in the middle based on its reflexes in individual Uralic languages. Remarkably, Sumerian ugu4 "to give birth," a homophone of ugu, likewise has a close counterpart in Finnic aiko-, aivo-, "to intend; to give birth." The semantics of the Finnic word show that it derives from the word for "brain," and the alternation of /k/ and /v/ in the stem confirms the reconstruction of the labiovelar in the middle of the word.

Several other words discussed by Civil also display an alternation of /g/ and /b/, including gurux or buru4 "crow," and gur(u)21 "shield," also attested as kuru14, e-bu-�r and �b-ba-ru (Fig. 7). These two words certainly were almost homophonous, since they could be written with the same logogram. The common Uralic word for "crow," *kwar�ks, indeed contains the posited labiovelar stop and provides a perfect etymology for the Sumerian word. The original labiovelar is preserved in Selkup, but has been replaced by /v/ in other Uralic languages except Sayan Samoyed, where it is appears as /b/. Sumerian gur(u)21 "shield" can be compared with Finnic varus "protection," whose original form can be reconstructed as *kwaruks and thus provides a perfect etymology for the Sumerian word. ��{?Hungarian �v=to protect from harm, v�r=a fort}

The regular replacement of the labiovelar by /g/, /k/ or /b/ in Sumerian and by /v/ in Uralic amounts to a phonological rule and helps establish further connections between Sumerian and Uralic words displaying a similar correlation, for example Sumerian g�d "to pull" and Uralic *vet�- "to pull," {Hungarian huz t>z} and Sumerian kur "mountain" and Uralic *vor "mountain." {also common as kur in many FU languages} �The reconstruction of an original labiovelar in the latter case is strongly supported by Volgaic kurok, "mountain." The phonological correspondences between Sumerian and Uralic remain to be fully charted, but a great many of them certainly are perfectly regular. For example, in word initial position Sumerian /�/ regularly corresponds to Finnic /h/, while Sumerian /s/ regularly corresponds to Finnic /s/ (Fig. . �{In Hungarian its often s, ch, sh }

The word a-g� just discussed was written syllabically with two cuneiform signs, A and KA, both of which have several phonetic values and meanings based on homophony and idea association (Fig. 9). All these phonetic values and meanings have close counterparts in Uralic, and the homophonic and semantic associations between the individual meanings work in Uralic, too; compare the homophony between a, aj "water" and aj, aja "father" in Sumerian, and j��, j�j and �j, �ij� in Uralic. And this applies not only to the signs A and KA but, unbelievable as it may sound, practically the whole Sumerian syllabary. Consider, for example, the sign AN (Fig. 10), whose basic meaning, "heaven, highest god," was in Old Sumerian homophonous with the third person singular of the verb "to be," am6. The Uralic word for "heaven" and "highest god" was *joma, which likewise was virtually homophonous with the third person singular of the verb "to be," *oma. These two words would have become totally homophonous in Sumerian after the loss of the initial /j/. The loss of the initial /j/ also provided the homophony between Sumerian a "water" and aj "father" just mentioned.

Such a close and systematic parallelism in form and meaning is possible only in languages related to each other. Accordingly, the logical conclusion is that Sumerian is a Uralic language. This conclusion is backed up by the great number of common words and the regularity of the phonological correspondences between Sumerian and Uralic already discussed, as well as by many other considerations. Sumerian displays the basic typological features of Uralic; it has vowel harmony, no grammatical gender but an opposition between animate and inanimate, and its grammatical system is clearly Uralic, with similar pronouns, case markers, and personal endings of the verb. In addition, many Uralic derivational morphemes can be identified in Sumerian nouns and verbs. The non-Uralic features of Sumerian, such as the ergative construction and the prefix chains of the verb, can be explained as special developments of Sumerian in an entirely new linguistic environment after its separation from the other Uralic languages.

The Sumerians thus came to Mesopotamia from the north, where the Uralic language family is located (Fig. 11), and by studying the lexical evidence and the grammatical features which Sumerian shares with individual Uralic languages, it is possible to make additional inferences about their origins. The closest affinities of Sumerian within the Uralic family are with the Volgaic and Finnic languages, particularly the latter, with which it shares a number of significant phonological, morphological and lexical isoglosses. The latter include, among other things, a common word for "sea, ocean" (Sumerian ab or a-ab-ba, Finnic aava, aappa), and common words for cereals, sowing and harvesting, domestic animals, wheeled vehicles, and the harness of draught animals (Fig. 12). A number of these words also have counterparts in Indo-European, particularly Germanic languages. These data taken together suggest that the Sumerians originated in the Pontic-Caspian region between the mouth of the Volga and the Black Sea, north of the Caucasus Mountains, where they had been living a sedentary life in contact with Indo-European tribes. I would not exclude the possibility that their homeland is to be identified with the Majkop culture of the North Caucasus, which flourished between 3700 and 2900 BC and had trade contacts with the late Uruk culture (Fig. 13). Placing the Sumerian homeland in this area would help explain the non-Uralic features of Sumerian, for the Kartvelian languages spoken just south of it are ergative and have a system of verbal prefixes resembling the Sumerian one. The Sumerian words for wheel and the harness of draft animals that it shares with Uralic show that its separation from Uralic took place after the invention of wheeled vehicles, which were known in the Majkop culture since about 3500 BC.

About 3500 BC, the Indo-European Yamnaya culture that had emerged between the Danube and the Don began to expand dynamically to the east, reaching the Caucasian foreland by about 3300 BC. This expansion is likely to have triggered the Sumerian migration to Mesopotamia. It would have proceeded through the Caucasus and the Diyala Valley, and since wheeled transport was available, could easily have been completed before the end of the Late Uruk period (c. 3100 BC). The arrival of the Sumerians would thus coincide with the destruction of the Eanna temple precinct at the end of the Uruk IVa period.

The lexical parallels between Sumerian and Uralic thus open up not only completely new possibilities for the study of Sumerian, but also a chance to identify the original homeland of the Sumerians and date their arrival in Mesopotamia. In addition, they provide a medium through which it becomes possible to penetrate into the prehistory of the Finno-Ugric peoples with the help of very ancient linguistic data. Of course, it is clear that the relevant evidence must first pass the test of verification or falsification before any part of it can be generally accepted and exploited.

I am currently preparing an Internet version of the database in collaboration with the Department of General Linguistics of the University of Helsinki. This web version is planned to be interactive and will contain a search engine and a program to check the regularity of the sound changes involved in the comparisons. I heartily invite all sceptics to visit the site once it is ready and falsify as many of the comparisons as they can, and everybody else to look at the evidence, check it out, and contribute to it by constructive criticism and new data.

The Sumerian-Vinca-Uralic-Turkic connection theory sounds reasonable.

[Sisak]

TAJNA JEDNOG GROBA
Muškarac i sedam žena žrtvovani zbog znaka na nebu

Stari je Vučedolac pozorno pratio zbivanja na nebu i viđeno bilježio na keramici, a zanimljivost je i da su već tada prepoznavali Veneru kao ženski planet. Arheolozi to tisućljećima kasnije “iščitavaju” na keramici iz toga doba. “U jednom času, čak su i osam ljudi žrtvovali zbog dramatičnih znakova koje su vidjeli na nebu, a što se može danas vrlo precizno datirati, pa bi to mogao biti i najprecizniji datum u svjetskoj prapovijesti. I ta priča bit će, u nadolazećem vremenu, na Vučedolu ispričana”, govori Durman i dodaje da je navedeni grob, u kojem su bili jedan muškarac i sedam žena, otkopan 1985. godine. I, priznaje, dugo ga je mučila tajna toga groba u kojem su bila i čak 153 kilograma keramike, među kojom i jedna unikatna posuda jer je bila s - nesimetričnim ukrasima. Ne odajući sve detalje, spomenuo je i da su pokopani u tome grobu bili za života inicirani usijanim kapljama metala na lubanji...