The Kalash people of the Hindu Kush

[Pallantides]

The Kalash (Nuristani: Kasivo) or Kalasha, are indigenous people of the Hindu Kush mountain range, residing in the Chitral District of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan. They speak the Kalash language, from the Dardic family of the Indo-Iranian languages, and are considered a unique tribe among the Indo-Aryan stock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalash

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4118/11270221761kalashisabea.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2872/374490240ec4281af4dz.jpg
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6070/3768022460980a23d88z.jpg
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9529/3768022472916fb57a1z.jpg
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6311/3768388438071fc32dfz.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4512/3768388466ee32c902cz.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4850/3805216841f75c8ce61z.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8222/39032070291ab4f63b0z.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8204/14917381843dcd52347fz.jpg
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/7849/37516927622c9600bedfo.jpg
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8721/girlfromkalashpakistanw.jpg
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4628/kalashwoman.jpg
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4332/kalashwoman2.jpg

[Pallantides]

mtDNA frequencies of the Kalash:

H - 10%
HV - 5%
HV1 - 5%
HV2 - 5%
I - 5%
J1 - 10%
K - 10%
U5 - 5%
U7 - 20%
U8b - 10%
W - 10%


The complexity of the peopling of the region is well illustrated by the Kalash population from the Hindu Kush valleys, where western Eurasian mtDNAs reach fixation with no detectable East or South Asian lineages (fig. 1 and table 2). Their outlying genetic position is seen in all analyses (table 3 and fig. 6). Moreover, although this population is composed of western Eurasian lineages, the most prevalent (i.e., U4, (pre-HV)1, U2e, and J2) are rare or absent in the surrounding populations and usually characterize populations from Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and the Caucasus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181978/?tool=pmcentrez

[Megrez]

Don't forget this guy:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/374490249_8a6bc54501_b.jpg (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17181)

[poiuytrewq0987]

A study by Rosenberg et al. (2006) employing genetic testing among the Kalash population concluded that they are, in fact, a distinct (and perhaps aboriginal) population with only minor contributions from outside peoples. In one cluster analysis with (K = 7), the Kalash formed one cluster, the others being Africans, Europeans/Middle Easterners/South Asians, East Asians, Melanesians, and Native Americans.

Perhaps the existence of the Kalash prove that the rest of the Middle East before its takeover by the Arabs looked like the Kalash?

[Pallantides]

They have a interesting position on the Intra-Eurasian 1&3 dimension from Polako's Eurogenes 101K SNP BGA Project:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p217/dpwes/Eurasia820.gif
(off topic: the Norwegian furthest down is me.;))

They seem to be totally seperated from both Middle Easterners and South Asians.

[Äike]

I think that their light features can be described with this:

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6171/800pxpassingofthegreatr.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Rosenberg2007.png/150px-Rosenberg2007.png

[Rereg]

Don't forget this guy:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/374490249_8a6bc54501_b.jpg (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17181)

He is very similar to polish-american actor Jakub Szajda:
http://www.fakt.pl/m/Repozytorium.Obiekt.aspx/-650/-550/faktonline/634358681093659528.jpg
:p

[Aviane]

^^^They look really alike.

[Artek]

^^^They look really alike.
Obvious Aryan in denial is obvious

[Sikeliot]

I read once that these people have Macedonian Greek descent due to the spread of Hellenistic Greek culture there via Alexander the Great's conquests, but it probably would not be true.

[x-class]

I read once that these people have Macedonian Greek descent due to the spread of Hellenistic Greek culture there via Alexander the Great's conquests, but it probably would not be true.

They dont show any genetic ties with the modern day greeks.

[Sikeliot]

They dont show any genetic ties with the modern day greeks.


I would have been surprised if they did.

[Osprey]

maybe these guys were part of the original Aryans who created the vedas and invaded India.
Or maybe descendents of Alexander's soldiers (not modern greeks)

[Edgard]

The more I study history the whiter it seems. The world was a lot whiter BC, the Arab and Mongol invasions really did a number on the Caucasoid peoples of the world. This is a fact that is avoided by most historians as its a hot potato.

[Mary]

I would think that they would be related to the original Greeks and not the wogs they have today.

[Edgard]

I would think that they would be related to the original Greeks and not the wogs they have today.

Greeks were whiter back in the day (when they were successful) as were most North Africans.

[Sikeliot]

Greeks were whiter back in the day (when they were successful) as were most North Africans.

If anything Greeks would have been darker, not lighter.

[Edgard]

If anything Greeks would have been darker, not lighter.

Not at all.
Look at the Homeric Epithets for gods and men and see how many refer to light skin or hair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer#Individuals

Demeter
fair-haired

Menelaus
red-haired, fair-haired, flaming-haired

women
white-armed (λευκ-ώλενος leuk-ṓlenos)

Other evidence...

Book XII Chap. XIV.
Of persons excellent in Beauty.
"They say that the most amiable and beautiful amongst the Greeks was Alcibiades; amongst the Romans, Scipio. It is reported also that Demetrius Poliorcetes contended in Beauty. They affirm likewise that Alexander Son of Philip was of a neglectful handsomness: For his Hair curled naturally, and was yellow; yet they say there was something stern in his countenance.

There is more but I cant be bothered to dig for it right now.

[Rereg]

The more I study history the whiter it seems. The world was a lot whiter BC, the Arab and Mongol invasions really did a number on the Caucasoid peoples of the world. This is a fact that is avoided by most historians as its a hot potato.

According to ancient chinese historians original homeland of Tocharians was in Gansu (modern Central-chinese provice)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/China_Gansu.svg/240px-China_Gansu.svg.png

Before V century B.C Caucasoid people lived from Atlantic to Tibet. :p

http://www.sikharchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/scythians_map.jpg

[Edgard]

According to ancient chinese historians original homeland of Tocharians was in Gansu (modern Central-chinese provice)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/China_Gansu.svg/240px-China_Gansu.svg.png

Before V century B.C Caucasoid people lived from Atlantic to Tibet. :p

http://www.sikharchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/scythians_map.jpg

Sadly this trend towards decline of Caucasoid peoples has accelerated some what of late. :(

Caucasoid were once found as far out as Mongolia for instants the Khamb people had blond hair and blue eyes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamb

Or Genghis himself

http://www.angelfire.com/folk/deadnextdoor/genghis.html

Its such a shame historians avoid this topic.

[Queen B]

I read once that these people have Macedonian Greek descent due to the spread of Hellenistic Greek culture there via Alexander the Great's conquests, but it probably would not be true.

They say they are, but if we just look at them,they look very similar to Nuristani people.

Here is a BBC video about Kalash
Uld8pPGN5cM

[Libertas]

They look darker than many Nuristanis

[Artek]

Kalash people aren't proved to be Greek by descent, deal with it

[Thunor]

The Kalash people are almost entirely Central Asiatic, and mostly look like their neighbors. Those photos of cherry-picked Kalash children that display Indo-European genetic throwbacks don't prove anything.

It's really laughable, how some racialists are not satisfied with their own European history but try to find long-lost "Aryans" everywhere, from the Kalash to the Canary Islands.

[Sikeliot]

Kalash people aren't proved to be Greek by descent, deal with it

I never said they were, just that they are rumored to be.

[Mortimer]

The Kalash people are almost entirely Central Asiatic, and look like their neighbors. Those photos of cherry-picked Kalash children that display Indo-European genetic throwbacks don't prove anything.

It's really laughable, how some racialists are not satisfied with their own European history but try to find long-lost "Aryans" everywhere, from the Kalash to the Canary Islands.

a positive comment i read from you.

[Mary]

The Kalash people are almost entirely Central Asiatic, and look like their neighbors. Those photos of cherry-picked Kalash children that display Indo-European genetic throwbacks don't prove anything.

It's really laughable, how some racialists are not satisfied with their own European history but try to find long-lost "Aryans" everywhere, from the Kalash to the Canary Islands.

They're not Central Asian.

[Thunor]

They're not Central Asian.
They belong to racial types found in South-Central Asia. What else would they possibly be?

[Mary]

They belong to racial types found in South-Central Asia. What else would they possibly be?

They don't look or act Central Asian. Maybe you can ask some of the Central Asians here.

They could be descendants of the ancient Greeks.

[Thunor]

They don't look or act Central Asian.
They don't look like any Europeans in modern or ancient times, either. They're typical of the Caucasoid-Mongoloid hybrids that live in Central Asia.


Maybe you can ask some of the Central Asians here.
There aren't any Central Asians on here that I know of, so I can't quite answer this question.


They could be descendants of the ancient Greeks.
They're not.

[Mary]

They don't look like any Europeans in modern or ancient times, either. They're typical of the Caucasoid-Mongoloid hybrids that live in Central Asia.

Many of them have very European features. I don't see any Mongoloid in them. You can google for Central Asians and then you will find genuine Caucasoid-Mongoloid hybrids.


There aren't any Central Asians on here that I know of, so I can't quite answer this question.

Try Russians or Kavkazians if you don't believe me.


They're not.

Look at their appearance. They look White. Probably Whiter than many Greeks.

[Mordid]

Obvious Aryan in denial is obvious
Slavs and Kalash = Aryan brothers and sisters

[Hurrem sultana]

they look like mixed gypsies+european

[lepa]

Yeah, they are aryans in denial.

[Sikeliot]

Probably Whiter than many Greeks.

No way.

[Thunor]

If these Central Asian people are "white", why is there no section for them on an European preservation forum?


Many of them have very European features. I don't see any Mongoloid in them.
Many of them have a rat-faced look common to South-Central Asia, although they're probably less mongoloid-admixed than their Turkic neighbors.


Look at their appearance. They look White.
No, they do not.

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/authors/kalash5.jpg

[Thunor]

This article, from Occidental Observer, may be pertinent to this subject:


Racial Cuckoldry

Ted Sallis

I am sure most people are familiar with the typical definitions of ‘cuckoldry’ in which a woman is unfaithful to her unknowing male partner. Genetically speaking, the most severe form of cuckoldry occurs when the woman’s unfaithful behavior results in being impregnated by the “other man” — with the unknowing male partner being tricked to raise the other man’s offspring as if it were his own. This example of maladaptive behavior is similar to the phenomenon of brood parasitism as practiced by several species, including the cuckoo bird, from which the term “cuckoldry” is derived. Humans or birds – the cuckolded bloodline suffers a drastic loss of biological fitness by raising as offspring young not their own.

As Dr. Frank Salter indicates in his ground breaking work on genetic interests, these interests – which are ultimate interests to all evolved organisms – can exist at higher levels than mere individual and family. Genetic interests also exist at the level of population groups (“ethnies"). Thus, if cuckoldry occurs at the individual/family level and damages genetic interests, can it not also occur at the level of ethnicity and race, with even wider spread damage done to genetic interests? Can Racial Cuckoldry exist, in which people are misled into thinking that the genetically alien is actually a co-ethnic, and so invest in people with whom they share relatively little distinctive genetic information?

Note by "racial" in this context I mean pertaining to the "ethny" — which can be any genetically defined population (ethnic group, sub-race, race, etc.). Note also that Racial Cuckoldry — defined as the maladaptive investment in genetically alien ethnies and/or alien individuals who are mistakenly considered as belonging to your ethny — is linked to mimicry, that is, Racial Mimicry. Racial Mimicry is fairly straightforward — a member of one race occasionally mimics the outward features of another race and, therefore, may be mistaken for a member of that race.

An example of the racial cuckoldry paradigm is the case of the Kalash, as indicated by this post and comments thread at American Renaissance. The Kalash are an Asian Caucasian group that are, in general, fairer complexioned that the surrounding Pakistani population. A small fraction of the Kalash population, particularly the children, is fair even by European standards (i.e., light-haired and light-eyed), and an even smaller percentage of the population may resemble some Europeans in facial features (although most Kalash are, clearly, physically distinct from Europeans).

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/authors/girl-from-kalash-pakistan-with-facial-tattoos.jpg

However, cherry-picked pictures of light-haired Kalash children prompt some hysterical commentators to assert that the Kalash are “Aryans,” racially similar to Europeans and thus racially “White” in the traditional sense of that word. Of course, this is complete nonsense; genetic analyses clearly show that the Kalash are completely distinct from Europeans, a different race. Indeed, the Kalash instead cluster with other Central Asian populations.

Faced with the irrefutable evidence that the Kalash are a racially alien people, the “hey, they look to me like Whites” commentators will completely ignore the evidence and essentially repeat the assertions that “if you know anything about race, the Kalash are just like Europeans.” Except — they are not. The data clearly show that the Kalash are in no way, shape, or form the “racial kin” of Europeans any more than are other Central Asian peoples. Individuals of pure European descent who are tricked by the superficial phenotypic mimicry of some Kalash for Europeans are victimized by racial cuckoldry. They are identifying the Kalash as part of their kin, to an extent not supported by the actual genetic evidence.

At the ethnic level, this of course occurs with ethnic groups other than the Kalash. The same types of people who become breathless over pictures of Kalash phenotypic outliers also become equally excited by the occasional fair Iranian or upper caste Brahmin Indian. The same hysteria about “Aryans” takes place, completely ignoring genetic data that shows these groups as distinct from Europeans.

Turks are a mixed bag, with many Western Turks being close to Europeans genetically and phenotypically; however, many others are Near Eastern in biological type. As a whole, the Turkish people are genetically distinct from Europeans, although closer to Europeans than are South Asians (“high caste” or otherwise).

[Mary]

No way.

I don't have time to look for pics. right now, but I'll try to find some tomorrow.

[Queen B]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/113_11035020486_740625486_1206730_8902_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/113_11035060486_740625486_1206738_980_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27873_10150189529070487_740625486_12561725_3295975 _n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/27873_10150189529055487_740625486_12561724_2304893 _n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27873_10150189528950487_740625486_12561714_1574318 _n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27873_10150189528955487_740625486_12561715_1100019 _n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/113_11035090486_740625486_1206744_2627_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/113_11035120486_740625486_1206750_4236_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/113_11035115486_740625486_1206749_3948_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/113_11036095486_740625486_1206926_9821_n.jpg

[Queen B]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27873_10150189528900487_740625486_12561710_4295681 _n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27873_10150189529155487_740625486_12561736_8252855 _n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27873_10150189533265487_51177_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27873_10150189529105487_740625486_12561729_7763448 _n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27873_10150189529200487_740625486_12561739_5342396 _n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/27873_10150189533440487_740625486_12561896_2018277 _n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/9525_100406589978876_100000286059835_8318_2446368_ n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/44265_438848034301_568394301_5310736_3343783_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/23557_109937752354350_100000143765869_253087_66181 12_n.jpg

[brunette]

They just look like light skinned Asian people.

[aherne]

maybe these guys were part of the original Aryans who created the vedas and invaded India.
Or maybe descendents of Alexander's soldiers (not modern greeks)

While these people are certainly pure Caucasoid, I don't see much Aryan element in them. They look like depigmented North-West Indians minus Veddoid (hence a pure Caucasoid look, uncommon among Indians).

This girl recalls of Aryans' original steppe phenotype:
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8721/girlfromkalashpakistanw.jpg
^ Robust Nordid-CroMagnid with characteristic long narrow face, blue eyes and golden hair. Her hair is also braided in an Aryan fashion, pretty much identical to the way girls from Ukraine used to braid their hair. This is an extraordinary act of cultural conservation, given the five thousand years time span BaltoSlavs and IndoIranians have separated.

[Osprey]

Kalash women will make good wives for disgruntled American men who struggle to find a nice woman in America and flock to Thailand.
Atleast they are white looking and prettier than Thais.

[Rereg]

They don't look like any Europeans in modern or ancient times, either. They're typical of the Caucasoid-Mongoloid hybrids that live in Central Asia.

Kalash, Tajiks and other indo-european speakers have much more south-asian influence while central-asian Türks have noticeable mongoloid admixture. Kalash are total different than chinky Kazakhs.

[Sikeliot]

From these pictures they likely have ~10-15% Mongoloid influence, and are not a lost tribe of Macedonian Greeks unlike what some have tried to suggest online on other sites.

[Osprey]

Maybe the Mongols invaded and intermixed with the Ancient Greek Descendants and created these Kalash people,

[Padre Organtino]

Duh, they have nothing to do with Europe. You need to be someone like Mary to believe these people are "aryan". If anything I can find much more pics of fair and European looking Syrians than Kalash.

[Mary]

Duh, they have nothing to do with Europe. You need to be someone like Mary to believe these people are "aryan". If anything I can find much more pics of fair and European looking Syrians than Kalash.

How do you want to explain that they have blue eyes then?

[Minesweeper]

Don't know much about Kalash people but I know this Kalash well.:D

http://www.gun-wallpapers.com/bulkupload/gun_wallpapers/rifles/ak47.jpg

Sorry for off.:p

[Mordid]

How do you want to explain that they have blue eyes then?
Blue eyes aren't limited to Europeans. Light eyes is a mutation which means it can appear in any population.

[Padre Organtino]

How do you want to explain that they have blue eyes then?

I have relatives with blue eyes. Big deal. You just need some ancient North Euro admix for that. There are quite a few Mulattoes with Blue eyes. I'm sure you'd welcome them in Europe:rolleyes:
If anything on average they look much darker and exotic than even Azeri or Kurds. Occasionally in some of them ancient Indo-European admix shows up but they are both culturally and ethnically South-Central Asian people.

[Mary]

Blue eyes aren't limited to Europeans. Light eyes is a mutation which means it can appear in any population.

Mutation is like Blacks who turn albino or get blue eyes because of a genetic coincidence. But here you can see that a considerable number of them have blue eyes. Too many to be a random mutation, in my opinion.

[riverman]

^ Mary, seriously, you need to stop generalising so much with your estimations of race by hair/eye color. It's not accurate, at all. And yes, a Kurd with blue eyes probably is more non-Europoid than a Brit with dark hair/eyes. Hair/eye color is very random.

[Padre Organtino]

^ Mary, seriously, you need to stop generalising so much with your estimations of race by hair/eye color. It's not accurate, at all. And yes, a Kurd with blue eyes probably is more non-Europoid than a Brit with dark hair/eyes. Hair/eye color is very random.

Any Kurd/Georgian/Chechen with light hair and blue eyes is less European than your woggy "paki" looking Brit.

[Mary]

I have relatives with blue eyes. Big deal. You just need some ancient North Euro admix for that. There are quite a few Mulattoes with Blue eyes. I'm sure you'd welcome them in Europe:rolleyes:
If anything on average they look much darker and exotic than even Azeri or Kurds. Occasionally in some of them ancient Indo-European admix shows up but they are both culturally and ethnically South-Central Asian people.

How do you want to explain that they have a significant prevalence of blue eyes?

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4628/kalashwoman.jpg

http://xtremegreek.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/single-greek-women.JPG

That Kalash woman could pass in Greece. Most of them could.

[Padre Organtino]

How do you want to explain that they have a significant prevalence of blue eyes?

They don't have it. You just need to take a closer look at group photos. Most look like Gypsies or smth like that. Some have light eyes due to some Northenr European genes they have. That IE genetic input is rather small though and they have probably less rights to call themselves European than New World octoroons (who often have light eye btw).

[Mary]

They don't have it. You just need to take a closer look at group photos. Most look like Gypsies or smth like that. Some have light eyes due to some Northenr European genes they have. That IE genetic input is rather small though and they have probably less rights to call themselves European than New World octoroons (who often have light eye btw).

A lot of them have light eyes. Look at the pictures yourself.

Where would they have gotten Northern European genes from?

[Padre Organtino]

How do you want to explain that they have a significant prevalence of blue eyes?

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4628/kalashwoman.jpg

That Kalash woman could pass in Greece. Most of them could.

This Kalash would not pass even in Caucasus let alone Europe. This is getting boring. If you are really a troll, please stop. It's not funny or entertaining.

[Padre Organtino]

A lot of them have light eyes. Look at the pictures yourself.

Where would they have gotten Northern European genes from?

Some horny PIE nomads who really were of Northern European extraction fucked local Gypsy women. they have left them the language and a small share of Northern genes that manifest themselves in lighter features from time to time.

[Mary]

This Kalash would not pass even in Caucasus let alone Europe. This is getting boring. If you are really a troll, please stop. It's not funny or entertaining.

Would this man pass in Europe?

http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kalash_n.jpg

This is a Georgian:

http://massispost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/saakashvili.jpg

[Mary]

Some horny PIE nomads who really were of Northern European extraction fucked local Gypsy women. they have left them the language and a small share of Northern genes that manifest themselves in lighter features from time to time.

So you mean that Northern Europeans would have wandered down to Pakistan and mixed with the local women?

I think we shall call this Georgian science.

[Padre Organtino]

So you mean that Northern Europeans would have wandered down to Pakistan and mixed with the local women?

I think we shall call this Georgian science.

We call that modern science. I dunno why you are constantly trying to somehow attack my ethnicity - your opinion matters to me as much as ghetto Black's or North African's to be honest.
On a serious note - IE nomadic migrations have been well-documented so far. Science shows that those IE languages were imposed upon locals by invaders. Why else would Pakis and North Indians be fairer and more European looking so to say than South Indians? Native (or better to say more ancient) Dravidian language family has nothing to do with IE languages. Additionally there is an abundance of R1a1 - paternal Slavic/Iranian/IE halplogroup in Central and South Asia. It shows that there was genetic flow from Euro males to local females.

[Padre Organtino]

Would this man pass in Europe?

http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kalash_n.jpg

This is a Georgian:

http://massispost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/saakashvili.jpg

These guys are also Georgians

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/64997_361843163847444_100000652899795_1138956_3349 72578_n.jpg

Notice that the man looks more Euro than the guy you posted who has very obvious West Asian nose.:rolleyes:

[Rereg]

Would this man pass in Europe?

http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kalash_n.jpg

Those persons are extremly rare among non-european populations. modern iranian speakers and Europeans are total different people.

[Geronimo]

Would this man pass in Europe?

http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kalash_n.jpg

despite his fair pigmentation he would not pass in Europe, maybe in Caucasus but that's it

I dont see him passing in the Balkans ... his nose, mouth and eyes scream asian

[Padre Organtino]

despite his fair pigmentation he would not pass in Europe, maybe in Caucasus but that's it

I think he would pass well in Balkans. The problem is that his features are rather West-Asian influenced (especially nose) so he would not pass as Northern or Western Euro and he is too robust for Southern Euros.

I would say that he really reminds me of those fair Iranians (Caucasus is an ok fit also).

[Mary]

We call that modern science. I dunno why you are constantly trying to somehow attack my ethnicity - your opinion matters to me as much as ghetto Blacks's or North African's to be honest.
On a serious note - IE nomadic migrations have been well-documented so far. Science shows that those IE languages were imposed upon locals by invaders. Why else would Pakis and North Indians be fairer and more European looking so to say than South Indians? Native (or better to say more ancient) Dravidian language family has nothing to do with IE languages. Additionally there is an abundance of R1a1 - paternal Slavic/Iranian/IE halplogroup in Central and South Asia. It shows that there was genetic flow from Euro males to local females.

So you are saying that the Kalash have blue eyes/European features because of IE migrations?

But... you can't know what the Indo-Europeans looked like.

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1007/mrt-facepalm-demotivational-poster-1279120782.jpg

[Mary]

Those persons are extremly rare among non-european populations. modern iranian speakers and Europeans are total different people.

I don't dispute that. I'm asking how you want to explain it?

[Padre Organtino]

So you are saying that the Kalash have blue eyes/European features because of IE migrations?

But... you can't know what the Indo-Europeans looked like.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22983

[Mary]

despite his fair pigmentation he would not pass in Europe, maybe in Caucasus but that's it

I dont see him passing in the Balkans ... his nose, mouth and eyes scream asian

Watch this:

http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kalash_n.jpg

http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/AlexandertheGreat.jpg

http://statues.com/restfr/images/Alex1601%20[640x480].JPG

http://i.io.ua/img_su/large/0010/03/00100365_n1.jpg

http://mycolormusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Bust-of-Pythagoras-the-Greek.png

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8204/14917381843dcd52347fz.jpg

http://www.livius.org/a/1/greeks/aristotle_palermo.JPG

http://www.wikinfo.org/upload/8/84/Kalash_Tour_Guide_in_Pakistan.jpg

http://www.lessing-photo.com/p3/100108/10010866.jpg

[Rereg]

I don't dispute that. I'm asking how you want to explain it?

Probably it's proto-iranian component...But obviously people with light pigmentation or ancient "Aryan" appearance are rare among modern south- asian nations.

[Mary]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22983

That's pure speculation.

[Padre Organtino]

All those statues Mary posted have straight noses. Troll fail.

[Mary]

All those statues Mary posted have straight noses. Troll fail.

So do the Kalash. Compare them to the busts of ancient Greeks.

[riverman]

Mary what's your point! :eek:

[Geronimo]

Watch this:

Mary you can't compare photos of real people with statues :)


http://i.io.ua/img_su/large/0010/03/00100365_n1.jpg

this highly progressive afghan would pass in Europe I can't say the same thing for the first guy.


The guy's nose is actually curved whic is pretty evident and rather common in West Asia. I have only seen this trait among some Balkanies and South Euros in small numbers.

Hooked and downturned noses are common among east-nordids and dinarids, actually it is considered a progressive trait


Look again:

http://mycolormusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Bust-of-Pythagoras-the-Greek.png

What do your eyes tell you?

my eyes tell me that this is a statue which makes it completely irrelevant to this discussion

[Padre Organtino]

The guy's nose is actually curved whic is pretty evident and rather common in West Asia. I have only seen this trait among some Balkanies and South Euros in small numbers.

Mary's being a lame troll it seems. Really boring and unfunny.

[Mary]

Mary you can't compare photos of real people with statues :)


http://i.io.ua/img_su/large/0010/03/00100365_n1.jpg

this highly progressive afghan would pass in Europe I can't say the same thing for the first guy.

Look again:

http://mycolormusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Bust-of-Pythagoras-the-Greek.png

What do your eyes tell you?

[Rereg]

Compare them to the busts of ancient Greeks.

Kalash or Nuristani people have south-asian appearance and don't look like ancient or modern Greeks. These photos are only cherry picking and curiosities.

[Mary]

Kalash or Nuristani people have south-asian appearance and don't look like ancient or modern Greeks. These photos are only cherry picking and curiosities.

Do they look similar to the Greek busts?

[Rereg]

Do they look similar to the Greek busts?

This is not serious argument because greek busts not show specific facial features.

[Mary]

This is not serious argument because greek busts not show specific facial features.

They give a general idea of what people back then looked like.

This is "sort off" what Alexander looked like:

http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/AlexandertheGreat.jpg

This guy looks like he could be his cousin:

http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kalash_n.jpg

What does that tell you?

They're probably the same people.

[Rereg]

What does that tell you?

Alexander and Kalash guy are caucasoid persons, it's all. Ancient busts are only idealized works of art without detailed.

[Pallantides]

Well genetics seem to show that Kalash are South Asian with West Asian influence, nothing Greek about them.

[Anusiya]

Actually I have seen some pictures depicting kalash people, and most of them have Balkan characteristics. Mostly of people one finds in the south-western part. Quite a few have Iranian too.



Alexander and Kalash guy are caucasoid persons, it's all. Ancient busts are only idealized works of art without detailed.

Let me see...
http://rhetoricalmultimedia.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/aristotle2.jpg

The only idealisation attempt is the cloak he wears.