Do you consider turks as white poeple?

[Stears]

MY vote is: NO


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph9zFs-5kSI



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuMiiPNikN0

[щрбл]

Some are, many aren't. You need to start a poll. :)

[Pahli]

If I'm not white then they aren't #ARYANMASTERRACE xD

[Visage pâle]

Yes with a slight mongoloid influence.

[Gooding]

I don't know. I went to the source and asked them. I guess it depends on the Turk, but I don't know. Central Asian Mongolid or Anatolian Caucasid? Maybe a little bit of both?

[Anthony PV]

Stears should busy himself helping the craftsmen and the workmen, the proletarians he dislikes so much, erect that wall along the Serbian border instead of starting threads about subjects that have been discussed over and over again... :p

[abcd123]

Of course no.What the fuck is with these threads?What's next?Are somalis white?

[Gooding]

Of course no.What the fuck is with these threads?What's next?Are somalis white?

I guess I'm too old to mind displaying past instances of personal stupidity, so here goes. When I saw one guy of Mediterranean type who lives in Quebec, before I found out his ethnicity, I thought he was a native Quebecois perhaps with ancestors from Southern France, like Gascony or Provence. If I didn't know he was Turkish now, I'd still have that opinion. Perhaps his ancestors were from the Eastern end of the Aegean Sea, or maybe they were closer to Ankara, I don't know. He certainly has a pan- Mediterranid look to him. That was one reason I suggested it might depend on the individual Turk.

[themrdude1990]

some yes some no
They range from this
http://www.theplace2.ru/archive/kivanc_tatlitug/img/88CC1ED0_F8AC_4CF3_A.jpg
to this
http://i.imgur.com/HbFLI96.jpg

[Stears]

nations with black hair dark eyes and olive skin are non-white nations.

[abcd123]

nations with black hair dark eyes and olive skin are non-white nations.

Many westerners have black/dark brown hair,including celts(irish).

[Governor]

Of course NO, they're just typical middle easterns even can pass as arab.

[Cristiano viejo]

Some are, many aren't.

This.
No basically.

[Infinite]

My ass is white, it counts?

It can be your 1000th thread about are Turks european :(:(: are turks white :(:(: you always get same answer yet never give up, i will think at the end that you want us to be white?

[Berahthraban]

No, they have too little WHG to be on the European spectrum. But they are one of the groups closest to whites.

[Carignan]

No. Also, I don't understand why some could be white, but others not when they are from the same people. I think that being white should not be based on how you look, but on genetic.

[Pahli]

No. Also, I don't understand why some could be white, but others not when they are from the same people. I think that being white should not be based on how you look, but on genetic.

Or ancestry :rolleyes:

[Carignan]

Or ancestry :rolleyes:

Yes, of course.

[Zanzibar]

No. Also, I don't understand why some could be white, but others not when they are from the same people. I think that being white should not be based on how you look, but on genetic.

there are several south euros who have swarthy olive skin woggish looking. i don't consider them white.

[Berahthraban]

No. Also, I don't understand why some could be white, but others not when they are from the same people. I think that being white should not be based on how you look, but on genetic.

Well said, exactly my thoughts. Phenotype doesn't decide race or ethnicity. Some come out ligher, while others are darker. It's mostly a genetic lottery.

[katalonia]

Some Turks i saw look like Whites and some Turks looks like Arabs , it depends on their appearance .

[Berahthraban]

there are several south euros who have swarthy olive skin woggish looking. i don't consider them white.

Okey, I do

[MsSPF]

What does "white" even mean ? White meaning Europeans, white meaning caucasoid or white meaning "similar looks to European ones" ?
Are they Europeans genetically and culturally speaking ? No, Turks are not Europeans at all, they are West Asians/Middle Easterns population except people who are originally from the Turkey's part in Europe, these ones can be considered as Europeans genetically speaking but culturally I'm not sure.
Are they caucasoid ? Yes they are.
And is their looks "similar to European ones" ? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

[wvwvw]

They are white except in Eastern Turkey in places like Tunceli where they are significantly dark and Mena. Even Turks don't want that region to be Turkey.

[Infinite]

Your mom is middle eastern. (to anyone who call Turks mena)

Waaa

http://photo1.ask.fm/408/427/845/-379996973-1sjjo6g-7q23olsqit426k0/original/file.jpg

[Pahli]

They are white except in Eastern Turkey in places like Tunceli where they are significantly dark and Mena. Even Turks don't want that region to be Turkey.

All-In has been summoned

[Infinite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuMiiPNikN0

They are tracian btw from edirne famous with their gypsy blood , balkanites should agree , some of them dance like this exactly same xD Well played

[wvwvw]

All-In has been summoned

All-in is from Central Turkey; :scared::zip-lip:

[Pahli]

All-in is from Central Turkey; :scared::zip-lip:

Specifically from Tunceli / Dersim :D

[MsSPF]

Your mom is middle eastern. (to anyone who call Turks mena)

Waaa

http://photo1.ask.fm/408/427/845/-379996973-1sjjo6g-7q23olsqit426k0/original/file.jpg

Be polite please.
Turkey is a Middle Eastern country, specialists/geographics include ALWAYS Turkey in the Middle East. Furthermore, Middle East is not an homogenous region at all, it includes different religions, ethnic groups (Persians, Kurds, Arabs, Arabized countries like the Levant etc...), and culture , including Turk ones. Middle East is not an ethnicity, it's a region in the world.
Turkey is also a West Asian country like Levant countries are West Asian countries.

[Infinite]

Posting some Turkish comments from social media

-We are so mixed, i travel a lot country, we are no doubt most mixed country.
-We like super social pissa, every color,every taste, mixed race.
-No pure race in Turkey, i dont think pure race even is exist somewhere in world
-Turkish people are mixed with 72 nation
-We are white like mexicanos
-Im blonde etc xD
-We are?
-Turks are yellow, irish are white.
-I dont feel safe even when im calling myself white. Im good with how i am.
-Turks are yellow-blue, best team is Fenerbahce.
-We are black nigga, get your white ass from here nigga, i will fuck your white ass ma nigga
-Yellow, mixed with arabs : brown, mixed with rums: white
-Origin of Turks are blonde and blue eyes.
-There is no white race, there are races like Japan,Irish,Finnish, others are populism
-Turks are member of alphine race
-First Turks were yellow, then mixed, no pure in us.

and other i didnt want to translete because they were too long. Got your answer, nobody cares.


Be polite please.
Turkey is a Middle Eastern country, specialists/geographics include ALWAYS Turkey in the Middle East. Furthermore, Middle East is not an homogenous region at all, it includes different religions, ethnic groups (Persians, Kurds, Arabs, Arabized countries like the Levant etc...), and culture , including Turk ones. Middle East is not an ethnicity, it's a region in the world.
Turkey is also a West Asian country like Levant countries are West Asian countries.

Turkey is Europe,Caucasia,West Asian,Med,Middle East,Euroasia,even Central Asia because of our history whatever you call it at the same time. Please, you are middle eastern, im not.

[Linebacker]

Ridiculoses,"White" is an American term that was used to describe White Anglo Saxon Protestants,nobody else is white.

[MsSPF]

Turkey is Europe,Caucasia,West Asian,Med,Middle East,Euroasia,even Central Asia because of our history whatever you call it at the same time. Please, you are middle eastern, im not.

I'm not Middle Eastern, check the map, I'm North African and my country is not even close a bit to the Middle East in the map. I'm in fact closer to Southern Europe than the Middle East but I don't care. Genetically speaking, 0% origins from Middle East.
You're probably more Middle Eastern than I am culturally and genetically speaking.
But I have no issues with being associated with the Middle East although I am not from this region at all because I share small similarities with them and I admit it, not like you, acting like a self hater, when you obviously share more with them than I am.

[Infinite]

You are "MENA". North Africa my ass, you are just another arap. being closer to south europe than mena, hahaha ask this to algerians or tunusians rofl and im the self hater, allahu aqbar friend.

[MsSPF]

You are "MENA". North Africa my ass, you are just another arap. being closer to south europe than mena, hahaha ask this to algerians or tunusians rofl and im the self hater, allahu aqbar friend.



Please, you are middle eastern, im not.

I'm not Middle Eastern as you pretend it (like you are), I'm North African and yes I'm MENA like you are also. And proud to be a MENA, I'm not a self hater.
I was talking geographically speaking, Maghreb is closer to Southern Europe than the Middle East, I was trying to help you to understand where Maghreb is in the map because you obviously don't know.
You act like a kid, you need to grow.

[StonyArabia]

You are "MENA". North Africa my ass, you are just another arap. being closer to south europe than mena, hahaha ask this to algerians or tunusians rofl and im the self hater, allahu aqbar friend.

Turkey is Middle Eastern, and you share a lot of cultural elements with Iran for example.

[Infinite]

Turkey is Middle Eastern, and you share a lot of cultural elements with Iran for example.

I only share my dick with menas, when they run to turkey and live some freedom, they need a lot of men you know.

[wvwvw]

Who is whiter Stears or this Turk? :icon_ask:

http://st-listas.20minutos.es/images/2009-08/135385/1535268_640px.jpg?1251459708

[StonyArabia]

I only share my dick with menas, when they run to turkey and live some freedom, they need a lot of men you know.

You are MENA as well you think you are European what a laugh

[SKYNET]

Who is whiter Stears or this Turk? :icon_ask:

http://st-listas.20minutos.es/images/2009-08/135385/1535268_640px.jpg?1251459708







this turd, oh sorry, turk, is depigmented ^

[Infinite]

You are MENA as well you think you are European what a laugh

I dont think im european but its also funy you get so butthurt when i say im no mena, nobody wants to be in common with your kind. Go fuck with some snakes in your desserts waaaa, read my all post when you geet butthurt and answer.

[Pahli]

I only share my dick with menas, when they run to turkey and live some freedom, they need a lot of men you know.

Give your dick to the fucking retarded Arab Gulf countries, destroy their countries with your 'Dickzilla' :laugh:

[StonyArabia]

I dont think im european but its also funy you get so butthurt when i say im no mena, nobody wants to be in common with your kind. Go fuck with some snakes in your desserts waaaa

You have much in common with the MENA than any other region. Or what you think you related to Tuvans, Yakuts and Mongols. Your genetically not much different from Armenians, Azeris(Turkish Iranian speakers) or Iranians nor would these people see you or any Anatolian as kin to them you are just Middle Easterners you heard me right. My people ruled two of the largest the empires the Ummyads and Abbassids. We created the most advanced state in the dark ages of Europe which was Moorish Spain. In fact we indirectly brought the enlightenment and renaissance to Europe. Also my people had great civilizations before like Nabateans, Midianites, Liyhanites, Kedarites, Sabaeans, and Mineans, and the Edomites who intermixed heavily with Arabians. What do you Turks have?

[katalonia]

Turks are Nordic


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e3xSSkl8hs

[Böri]

Troll thread with all aspects especially seeing Turks supposedly defended here by unidentified, East Turkey, PKK supporting thing sharing comments of supposed Turkish people denying existence of Turkish people as ethnics.

[Pahli]

What do you Turks have?

Toplel

[Infinite]

ya allahu akbar kodumun fucktardı, gtfo aq arabı keep buthurthing somewhere away from me

[Infinite]

değmez.

[Böri]

Turks exist as nation and ethnics you shame poor, rat face, HDP voter, PKK apologist Georgian monkey. It's not for someone like you to represent us here.

[Pahli]

Turks exist as nation and ethnics you shame poor, rat face, HDP voter, PKK apologist Georgian monkey. It's not for someone like you to represent us here.

Pray to Allah for new a Hunnic invasion :laugh:

[Infinite]

değmez.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Obviously a youtube troll video -with comments disabled ..
Because in every second a Turk will come and correct them.

anyway after one year still same topics ..sorry to keeping you busy with such a complicated issue lol

[StonyArabia]

A lot of Spainards take pride in their Arab legacy

Ummyad ruler
http://s9.postimg.org/y9lh9cuan/Abd_Al_Rahman_II.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

What created, we built not destroy

http://s28.postimg.org/s72i79up9/Al_hambara.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Dangling in the southern winter sky and very visible from my balcony in Naples is the great equatorial constellation of Orion. The second brightest star in that constellation is the red supergiant, Betelgeuse. (This is the first of a few familiar names coming up that no one knows how to pronounce. Another one is "Averroës.") Betelgeuse is 390 light years from my balcony and, thus, remote from the various fields of human conflict that are responsible for my knowing neither the pronunciation nor the original name of the star—thus, our high school astronomy club's cutesy mnemonic of "Beetle Juice." I don't recall ever learning that the name came from the Arabic bayt al jauza, meaning "in the house of the twins," referring to the Heavenly Twins, Castor and Pollux, hanging out right above Orion.

It is convenient—but not a good idea—to pigeonhole our own cultural history into tidy episodes: The Renaissance, The Age of Reason, The Enlightenment, The This & That, as if they had happened all of a sudden with no connection to anything else—as if Leonardo woke up one fine morning in 1500, looked at his homemade (obviously) hour-glass and said "Gee, it's the Renaissance; I'd better design a helicopter." The point of this entry, then, is simply to draw your attention to how interconnected European and Arabic culture used to be, and how there is a link between the glorious age of Arab science and culture (800-1100) and the beginnings of the Italian Renaissance. (I am not making the post hoc, ergo propter hoc mistake of saying that that which comes first necessarily causes that which comes second. I am simply saying it's a good idea to know what came before you—Bonum est quod ante te evenit scire (I think) .



In 800 this was by no means an easy task. Much classical Greek writing had not survived the centuries of neglect by Christians inimical to "pagan" thought. As early as the year 500, the great library at Alexandria was a ruin and, a few years later, Justinian closed Plato's Academy in Athens because it was a hotbed of pagan (non-Christian) philosophy. Arab scholars, then, translated into Arabic the few Greek texts that remained, or translated from languages into which the Greek originals had previously been translated by scholars who had left Greece for parts east. These were mainly exiled Nestorian Christians from Greece, and Classical Greek scholars from Plato's academy who had fled to Persia, where they founded a great center of learning at Jundishapur (before the coming of Islam) and translated much of their material into Aramaic, the lingua franca of the Middle East at the time. After Baghdad, the Arabs later started equally fine centers of scholarship in Spain at Cordoba and Toledo.


Gutas, Dimitri. Greek Thought, Arabic Culture. London: Routledge, 1998.
Lunde, Paul. “Ishbiliyah: Islamic Seville.” Aramco World 44.1 (Jan/Feb) 1993.
Tschanz, David W. “The Arab Roots of European Medicine.” Aramco World May/June 1997.

[wvwvw]

MENA =/= Arab, there are plenty of white Syrians, Assyrians, Kurds, Lebanese, Iranians, Algerians in Northern Africa.

[Hadouken]

:picard1:

[StonyArabia]

Toplel

Yet we had Nabateans, Sabaeans, Mineans,Midianites, Liyhanite, Dedanites, Qedarites, Edomites(heavily Arabian), Nabateans, Lakhmids,Ghassanids, then the Ummyads, Abbassids, and Moorish Spain. We created cities of scholarship which was Baghdad, Cordoba, Toledo, and Palmero.

[Pahli]

Yet we had Nabateans, Sabaeans, Mineans,Midianites, Liyhanite, Dedanites, Qedarites, Edomites(heavily Arabian), Nabateans, Lakhmids,Ghassanids, then the Ummyads, Abbassids, and Moorish Spain. We created cities of scholarship which was Baghdad, Cordoba, Toledo, and Palmero.

True, but I still hate Islam lol. I like some of the Pre-Islamic Arabic civilizations.

[Turkminator]

Nobody wants to be white or Caucasian.

The Turks are Central Asian people from the steppes of Asia. Related to the Japanese, Koreans, less interested in a relationship with dubious Europeans or stinking Arabs and Iranians.

Mark you that!

The problem to be "white", have the Indo-European peoples like Gypsies, Afghanis, Iranians. They are not white and look like shit, but speak an Indo-European language. What a sad dilemma! for them!

[wvwvw]

Nobody wants to be white or Caucasian.

The Turks are Central Asian people from the steppes of Asia. Related to the Japanese, Koreans, less interested in a relationship with dubious Europeans or stinking Arabs and Iranians.

Mark you that!

The problem to be "white", have the Indo-European peoples like Gypsies, Afghanis, Iranians. They are not white and look like shit, but speak an Indo-European language. What a sad dilemma! for them!

Do you think Southern Iranians have assimilated a lot of Gypsies? All those millions of gypsies that passed from Iran on their way to the Balkans...some must have been assimilated by Iranians, how else they are so dark in the South?

[Visage pâle]

Ridiculoses,"White" is an American term that was used to describe White Anglo Saxon Protestants,nobody else is white.

Bullshit, white was used by europeans during modern era before united states existence.

[Pahli]

Do you think Southern Iranians have assimilated a lot of Gypsies? All those millions of gypsies that passed from Iran on their way to the Balkans...some must have been assimilated by Iranians, how else they are so dark in the South?

Not really, Balochs are just darker because of climate lol.

[StonyArabia]

Nobody wants to be white or Caucasian.

The Turks are Central Asian people from the steppes of Asia. Related to the Japanese, Koreans, less interested in a relationship with dubious Europeans or stinking Arabs and Iranians.

Mark you that!

The problem to be "white", have the Indo-European peoples like Gypsies, Afghanis, Iranians. They are not white and look like shit, but speak an Indo-European language. What a sad dilemma! for them!

We look like shit lol. Dream on little boy:

Arabians:

http://s4.postimg.org/8y7frvk71/Shammar.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
http://s13.postimg.org/uoydg3izr/Bedouinmodel.png (http://postimage.org/)
http://s4.postimg.org/7qthznu2l/aseelomran5.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

We look better than you dude

[wvwvw]

Not really, Balochs are just darker because of climate lol.

Balochs are Iranians or a different population? They look strikingly darker than in Northern Iran

[Visage pâle]

What does "white" even mean ? White meaning Europeans, white meaning caucasoid or white meaning "similar looks to European ones" ?

Racially it means Caucasian, politically it means ethnic european.

[Infinite]

They will cut your head since you showed us some arab female faces.

[aksakallicocuk]

Some Turks look white, but they are not.They still culturally too different then Europeans. We are like european-middleastern-central asian mix.

[Turkminator]

Do you think Southern Iranians have assimilated a lot of Gypsies? All those millions of gypsies that passed from Iran on their way to the Balkans...some must have been assimilated by Iranians, how else they are so dark in the South?

Anyone with a trained eye recognizes the phenotypic affinities between primitive Persians and the Indians. They resemble each other in their facial features. It is indeed said that the Elamites of Iran had immigrated from India, as well as the Indo-Aryans.

There are even Kurdish tribes who today carry the same roots with the Gypsies.

http://kurdica.com/News-sid-Sinti-Roma-in-Kurdistan-und-Luristan-535.html

[Alially]

The important point; which region are you talking
Because Turks are located in lots of region
For example balkanic Turks are so white
Also western Turkey is white(they are mostly balkanic immigrants)
But eastern Turkey is much more darker and if we consider eastern Turkey has higher fertility, we can say Turkey is getting darker
Also black sea Turks are so white
Middle east Turks are darker

[Pahli]

Balochs are Iranians or a different population? They look strikingly darker than in Northern Iran

Different climate. They live in a desert like climate.

[StonyArabia]

They will cut your head since you showed us some arab female faces.

Suuuure Turk, they are all Gulf Arab actresses imao, first one belongs to my mom's tribe but different clan.

[Turkminator]

Not really, Balochs are just darker because of climate lol.

Zoran thinks he would likely actually a Swede born with bright blue eyes and blond hair, when the sun was not there in Iran.

[Pahli]

Zoran thinks he would likely actually a Swede born with bright blue eyes and blond hair, when the sun was not there in Iran.

Fact is that the Iranian dick impregnated Mongolian women and gave birth to savage Turk hordes, be happy we gave birth to you :D

[Turkminator]

Balochs are Iranians or a different population? They look strikingly darker than in Northern Iran

You haul an intellect beside you, as I my phallus. The north of Iran is South Azerbaijan and Turkish territory.

[Profileid]

Nobody wants to be white or Caucasian.

The Turks are Central Asian people from the steppes of Asia. Related to the Japanese, Koreans, less interested in a relationship with dubious Europeans or stinking Arabs and Iranians.

Mark you that!

The problem to be "white", have the Indo-European peoples like Gypsies, Afghanis, Iranians. They are not white and look like shit, but speak an Indo-European language. What a sad dilemma! for them!

Why are you always so angry?

[Turkminator]

Fact is that the Iranian dick impregnated Mongolian women and gave birth to savage Turk hordes, be happy we gave birth to you :D

Zoran, the Swedish guy, who was demoted Duch UV rays to a oily sand monkey. What an unjust world.

[wvwvw]

Zoran thinks he would likely actually a Swede born with bright blue eyes and blond hair, when the sun was not there in Iran.

Iranian Identity, the 'Aryan Race,' and Jake Gyllenhaal
by REZA ZIA-EBRAHIMI in London
Troubling echoes in adherence to Hollywood vision of the past.

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/images/jake-gyllenhaal-prince-of-persia.jpg

Everybody has heard about Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, the recent Walt Disney blockbuster featuring Jake Gyllenhaal in the role of...a prince of Persia. That a rather fair actor with Swedish and Ashkenazi heritage plays the lead role in a story set in ancient Iran caused a minor controversy. Some enlightened people believe that Hollywood missed an opportunity to transcend its stereotypical depictions of non-Europeans, particularly Middle Easterners, by offering the part to a brownish hero. Of course, in private discussions, many Iranians, always prompt to portray themselves as "Aryans," concurred that Gyllenhaal accurately embodies how their ancestors must have looked, before Arabs invaded and imposed both their religion and complexion at the point of the sword.
So far, nothing unusual. What is surprising and alarming, however, is that serious intellectuals condoned these views. Asked to comment on producer Jerry Bruckheimer's declaration to The Times of London that many Iranians were "blond and blue-eyed" until "the Turks kinda changed everything," American-Iranian author Reza Aslan asserted that, indeed, Iranians were Aryans. "If we went back in time 1,700 years to the mythological era," Aslan said, "all Iranians would look like Jake Gyllenhaal." This pronouncement highlights the resilience of what I call the "Aryan syndrome" in modern Iran. A historical detour is necessary to show why it is so problematic.

Aryanism is a system of thought born in early-nineteenth-century Europe that divides mankind into different "races." It deems the Aryan race to be "superior," more creative and morally upright than "inferior" races. Those Semites, "Negroes," and others were believed to be characterized by vicious simplicity, cupidity, treacherousness, and an incapacity to grasp metaphysics. It all started soon after Sir William Jones discovered in 1786 that Sanskrit and Persian were related to Latin and Greek, within what later came to be called the Indo-European family of languages.

The term "Aryan" itself is a neologism coined by a French Orientalist of the era, Abraham-Hyacinthe Anquetil-Duperron. It is synonymous with "Indo-European," although the latter has a more geographic connotation. In a Zeitgeist where nations and national cultures were given shape, where myths of genealogy were particularly appealing to intellectuals, and where some were grappling with the moral dilemma of colonizing people in far-off lands, Jones's linguistic theory was swiftly manipulated into a racial one -- linguistic similarity was assumed to denote racial kinship.

Throughout the nineteenth century, Aryanism was wrapped into the discourse of science. Racial anthropology came into being as a discipline claiming to classify humans into different racial categories with immutable psychological features by measuring noses, skulls, and ears. As we know all too well, Aryanists, in particular one Adolf Hitler, became increasingly obsessed with racial purity and elevated the opposition between Aryan and Semite to the level of paradigmatic antagonism. This opened the way for the next stage: extermination. Aryanism provided the ideological backbone for Nazi atrocities.

Today, talk of the "Aryan race" in the West is restricted to white supremacist circles in North America and neo-Nazi militants in Europe. The very concept of "race," although it is still used in political discourses, especially in the United States, is scientifically bankrupt. Leading scientific associations assert that genetic variations between human groups are so gradual that drawing lines is inevitably an arbitrary and subjective exercise. "Indo-European" today refers to languages, not to people, let alone people supposed to assume inherent characteristics. Even its now limited use has been questioned. According to prominent linguists such as Merritt Ruhlen and the late Joseph Greenberg, the theory which holds that Indo-European languages are unrelated to other language groups such as the "Semitic" is overstated, if not outright fictitious.

Despite the rather inglorious legacy of Aryanism, many Iranians still nonchalantly seize every opportunity to emphasize their "Aryanness." But how did Aryanism reach Iran in the first place? Iranian Aryanists would have us believe that we have referred to ourselves as ariya since time immemorial, and that this epithet is a racial one, used to distinguish those who are ariya from those who are not. The claim is fallacious. The term occurs only a handful of times in ancient inscriptions in the Avesta, and on the bas-reliefs of Naqsh-e Rostam and Bisotun. Absolutely no consistent meaning can be derived from these occurrences.

In spite of many attempts to force ariya into Aryanist assumptions, recent scholarship -- in particular the work of Gherardo Gnoli -- has shown that ariya was not quite a racial category. According to Gnoli, in Achaemenid times, ariya was a cultural and religious term to evoke the kings' origin, like a title of particular nobility. In its very restricted, exclusivist nature, that is quite different from a racial category. Moreover, as already mentioned, the term "Aryan" was coined by Anquetil-Duperron. The neologism is charged with modern and romantic European conceptions of "race" that did not exist in Eastern antiquity. Even more importantly, in the entire corpus of Persian literature, verse and prose, there is no reference to an Aryan race until the twentieth century.

A related myth is the one according to which "Iran" means the "land of Aryans." This myth was propagated by Max Müller, who claimed in 1862 that the term airyanem vaejah found in the Avesta is the ancestor of "Iran" and means the "Aryan expanse." This myth became so widespread that serious scholars propagate it even to this day. Suffice it to look at a dictionary.

By contrast, Gnoli contends that airyanem vaejah is not a historical land, but a legendary, cosmogonic concept in Zoroastrianism. Additionally, the "land of Aryans" would suppose that the inhabitants of the Achaemenid or Sasanian empires were racially conscious in a manner similar to nineteenth-century Europeans. This is of course highly unlikely, particularly given that the Iranian plateau already -- as it has ever since -- featured a complex mix of populations. Out of 30,000 tablets excavated in Persepolis, not one was written in Persian (most are in Elamite, and a few are in Aramean). In fact, the empire was a melting pot. To imagine that its inhabitants believed that a territory must belong to one people is an anachronistic projection of modern ideas onto the distant past. The presence of Arabs on the Iranian plateau and Iranians in the Arabian Peninsula is also attested, but somehow ignored by the prophets of Aryanism.

The now ubiquitous concept of the "Aryan race" first appeared in Iran in the 1890s. Mirza Agha Khan Kermani, one of the ideologues of a particularly bigoted version of Iranian nationalism, was the first to ever refer to it in writing. Interestingly, he spelled it àriyàn (آریان), a transliteration of the French aryen. Later, Sadegh Rezazadeh Shafagh came up with àriyàyi, the term now usually used in Persian. Hasan Priniya dwelt upon Aryans and the "science of race" in the textbooks he wrote for the first cohort of children to be mass schooled by the Pahlavi state in the 1930s.

By that point, the strange idea of Iranian-German racial brotherhood had already appeared in various writings, such as a poem dedicated to "Germania" by Vahid Dastgerdi during World War I. After the Nazis took power, the notion was actively disseminated by the German propaganda machine. The hugely popular journal Nàmeh-ye Iràn Bàstàn, the Persian-language broadcasts of Radio Berlin, the publications and lecture tours of the Deutsch-Persische Gesellschaft, and the holdings of the German Scientific Library all promoted the idea of Aryan brotherhood, as Germany sought to convince Iranians to supporting her cause against the "ugly fox" (Great Britain) and "deceitful bear" (the Soviet Union). It all worked very well. Observe how the German football team is even now welcomed in Iran, occasionally with enthusiastic collective Nazi salutes.

Why is Aryanism in Iran so resilient? Why has it never been questioned, criticized, or reevaluated? In my view, late-nineteenth-century Iran was a receptive environment for Aryanism, which came to play a crucial role in the definition of modern Iranian identity. In the nineteenth century, Qajar Iran had come into contact with Europe. This was no smooth encounter, as it first came through the defeats of the Russo-Persian wars. The Qajar elites were profoundly traumatized by the discovery of Europe's advances and Iran's backwardness. Iranian intellectuals spent decades attempting to make sense of the nation's decay.

Around the 1860s, a few intellectuals such as Mirza Fath'ali Akhundzadeh and Mirza Agha Khan Kermani pioneered a digestible and reassuring narrative, staggering in its simplicity: pre-Islamic Iran was a utopia of glory, power, refinement, and prosperity. The causes of the end of this magnificent past were to be laid entirely at the doorstep of the Arabs and their religion, Islam. Since the advent of Islam, Iranians had been miserable. If only Arabs had not brought Islam to Iran, the country would be as advanced, if not more, than France and England. The solution? Uprooting anything perceived to be "Arabic" or "Islamic" in Iranian customs and beliefs, including the alphabet, loanwords, and all religious practices. Such a project, which these intellectuals sincerely believed to be achievable, would overnight return Iran to its ancient glories. They entirely overlooked Iran's recent achievements -- of which there were more than a few -- but all this was, of course, designed to avoid examination of the nation's own shortcomings. Nationalism always needs scapegoats to protect the pristine nature of the "homeland" and its "true" people.

This was the context in which Iranian intellectuals heard, or rather read in Orientalist literature, that Iranians were members of that same superior race as Europeans. Aryanism was for them manna from heaven. It suddenly -- and, it should be added, unexpectedly -- provided them an attractive means to consolidate their fanciful theories. It is fascinating how deeply compatible Aryanism was with the emerging nationalist discourse: the opposition between Iranian and Arab fit squarely into the Aryan vs. Semite paradigm. It also came from Europe. How could the celebrated, emulated Europeans be wrong? Iranians' pride, seriously wounded by the encounter with Europe, could be assuaged with the conviction that they shared in the Europeans' racial superiority. No surprise that they adhered so tightly to the myth of the Aryan race.

Two strategies are served by this adherence. I call the first one self-Orientalization. This is a commitment to all European prejudices that regard Muslims, or generally the people of the East, as backward. The Iranian Aryan espouses these prejudices (which, in fact, also target him) and simply considers himself to be the Aryan exception. Self-Orientalization always involves an element of shame over traditional Iranian customs and features. This is patent in the justification that Reza Shah Pahlavi provided when he rendered the European chapeau (bowler hat) compulsory in 1935: "All I am trying to do is for us to look like [the Europeans], so they would not laugh at us."

The second strategy is that of dislocation, the attempt to dislodge Iran from its Eastern and Islamic reality and force it into a European one, under the claim that Iranians are members of the European family gone astray in the backward Middle East. The dislocation mentality has very deep roots in the Iranian psyche, as it was incessantly promoted by the Pahlavi state through every vehicle of education and propaganda. Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi himself was a militant of "dislocationism." He once told a journalist, for instance, "We are an Asian Aryan power whose mentality and philosophy are close to those of the European states, above all France." He confided to British Ambassador Anthony Parson that it was "an accident of history" that Iran found itself in the Middle East, a startling negation of the country's empirical reality.

Not only is Aryanism a relic of nineteenth-century European thought with an ignominious legacy, but its Iranian variety is a symptom of an entrenched complex of inferiority, a desperate attempt to be something other than a "mere Iranian." This complex is rooted in a traumatic encounter with Europe that took place two centuries ago. It thus alarms me that to this very day, serious Iranian intellectuals tell a wide audience that "Iranians are Aryans." Moreover, the belief that Aryans are supposed to be "fair" is rooted in a hypothesis fashionable in the 1930s according to which the cradle of the Aryan race, its Urheimat, was the Scandinavian Peninsula. It was this "Northern Hypothesis" that was at work in Nazi Germany's depictions of Aryans as a glorious blond, blue-eyed race. It is unfortunate that when people claim that we once all looked like Jake Gyllenhaal, they do not realize that they are referring to relics of the sort of thought at work in the minds of Nazi ideologues. This only highlights the urgent need for Iranians to question their identity myths and get rid of the distortional, racialist, bigoted view of their identity that they have inherited from Old Europe.

[wvwvw]

You haul an intellect beside you, as I my phallus. The north of Iran is South Azerbaijan and Turkish territory.

The Azeris are an Iranic group, maybe they have other influences too, but they look more Iranian than Turkish. Iranians also don't look Arab at all, but have influenced all surrounding populations.

[Turkminator]

The Azeris are an Iranic group, maybe they have other influences too, but they look more Iranian than Turkish. Iranians also don't look Arab at all, but have influenced all surrounding populations.

This is called genetic drift. Nevertheless, the Azerbaijanis are Turks in the north of the country. They do not look like Pakistanis, Afghanis, like the other Iranian-nations.

Now get out of my sight before I'll spit in your African curly hair, Greek.

[wvwvw]

This is called genetic drift. Nevertheless, the Azerbaijanis are Turks in the north of the country. They do not look like Pakistanis, Afghanis, like the other Iranian-nations.

Now get out of my sight before I'll spit in your African curly hair, Greek.

I'm still whiter than you

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=121690988

[wvwvw]

Do Turks generally dislike Iranians, I actually thought they liked them

[Böri]

We Turks dont claim to be Europeans or whites people. We also dont accept we are 'Mena' peoples like Armenians, Zazas, Kurds, Persians etc. these peoples in this forum force Turks to identify with themselves and when rightfully Turks don't want they insult Turks because they are offended. We arent same as Europeans or them racially, scientifically, phenotypes, genetically etc. It's like some of them starting taxonomy threads with Turkish actresses, gathering Iranians and the others to the thread and treating Turkish women like it's their property, saying yes you can have her

[Böri]

Do Turks generally dislike Iranians, I actually thought they liked them

Dislike, strongly negative opinion, we even prefer you Greeks than them or Armenians.

[katalonia]

Someone told me that Turks are mongols originally but mixing with Europeans like Greeks and Albanians , Arabs and Indo-European Kurds changed their phenotype and genes drastically and later they became Caucasian

modern Turkish DNA (which is mix of European , Arab , Kurdish admixture) people before were Mongolians.

P.s I'm not trolling

[Turkminator]

Dislike, strongly negative opinion, we even prefer you Greeks than them or Armenians.

I agree. They are in any case not so sneaky.

[wvwvw]

Dislike, strongly negative opinion, we even prefer you Greeks than them or Armenians.

Why do you drag Armenians in everything related to Iranians? They are Caucassians and easily distinguishable from Iranians. Iranians have not been at war with Ottomans as far as I know, they had a strong influence on Turkey culturally that is why I am surprised that Turks dislike them that much.

[Böri]

Why do you drag Armenians in everything related to Iranians? They are Caucassians and easily distinguishable from Iranians. Iranians have not been at war with Ottomans as far as I know, they had a strong influence on Turkey culturally that is why I am surprised that Turks dislike them that much.

Turks are more Europeans than Armenians are Kavkaz. They are all Darius extractions. You are just Orthodox nationalists and you like Armenians, you think you can change their reality. Surveys to Turkish peoples indicate Iran is top least favourite ME nation for Turks. Turks dont like them

[Pennywise]

Why do you drag Armenians in everything related to Iranians? They are Caucassians and easily distinguishable from Iranians. Iranians have not been at war with Ottomans as far as I know, they had a strong influence on Turkey culturally that is why I am surprised that Turks dislike them that much.

They have been at war with Turks, but back then, they were ruling by Turks too. Iranian influence on Turks is very old. It has nothing to do with Ottomans.

[Turkminator]

They have been at war with Turks, but back then, they were ruling by Turks too. Iranian infulence on Turks is very old. It has nothing to do with Ottomans.

In general, the Iranian peoples are similar to the Chinese. They are mostly cowardly and sneaky. Also one of the reasons why the Turks were always spinning enemies with these two nations. The honorable, inflexible Turk who wears his word to the grave. And in return, the cowardly Iranians, who talks a lot when the day is long.

[aksakallicocuk]

Do Turks generally dislike Iranians, I actually thought they liked them

Generally Turks hate Persians really really much, Turks are way more neutral to Greeks or Arabs

[wvwvw]

Turks are more Europeans than Armenians are Kavkaz. They are all Darius extractions. You are just Orthodox nationalists and you like Armenians, you think you can change their reality. Surveys to Turkish peoples indicate Iran is top least favourite ME nation for Turks. Turks dont like them

I don't like them because they are Christians, I just find the Turkish attitude towards them appalling. Kurds on the other hand behave way more 'European' than Turks, they have apologized to Armenians for any Kurdish participation in their genocide so I definetely have more respect For them.

[Pennywise]

In general, the Iranian peoples are similar to the Chinese. They are mostly cowardly and sneaky. Also one of the reasons why the Turks were always spinning enemies with these two nations. The honorable, inflexible Turk who wears his word to the grave. And in return, the cowardly Iranians, who talks a lot when the day is long.

Don't judge them. They had nothing but their sneaky minds. If it wasn't exist too, they couldn't even survive. Especially against Turks.

[щрбл]

this turd, oh sorry, turk, is depigmented ^

This Turk may be blond, blue eyed and dePIGmented but his forehead is minuscule and that makes him crearly a worthless subhuman. xD

[aksakallicocuk]

I don't like them because they are Christians, I just find the Turkish attitude towards them appalling. Kurds on the other hand behave way more 'European' than Turks, they have apologized to Armenians for any Kurdish participation in their genocide so I definetely have more respect For them.

Have you ever met a Kurd? İ don't think so.

[Turkminator]

I don't like them because they are Christians, I just find the Turkish attitude towards them appalling. Kurds on the other hand behave way more 'European' than Turks, they have apologized to Armenians for any Kurdish participation in their genocide so I definetely have more respect For them.

Listen to me carefully: Who apologizes accuses himself. The Turk has to apologize for nothing. Secondly, anyone who has a minimum level of knowledge of Anatolia knows that the historical settlements of Armenians were rooted in central Kurdish region in the Southeast.

Those Kurdish tribes who planed deportation routes secure than human-rails, the Armenian refugees as lambs and driven with sticks them at night, and watched up to them like big cats - their descendants come 100 years later, and show the world that over hung cloak of moral acting gooders.

Here they try to project their criminal nature to Turks and declare Turks thus to what they themselves are. Therefore, the intentional guilty of love for the past, love of treachery, love becomes a lie, love drip for fraud. Only in this way, these being made losers can make their crimes and actuated them.

This makes the Iranian mountain nomads strains among all criminals of Anatolia Although particularly successful in the past 100 years showed but extraordinarily despicable and barbaric.

[Proto-Shaman]

Ridiculoses,"White" is an American term that was used to describe White Anglo Saxon Protestants,nobody else is white.
Interestingly this Alpine-Turanid Turk was also called "White". lol xD
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?182757-classify-Anatolian-Turk-%28Ephesus%29

http://www.sinueserra.com/photos/galleries/turkey/steel_gaze.jpg