The Rise of Europe's Far Right

[Marusya]

http://i57.tinypic.com/2vnf7fr.jpg
A protest by Pegida supporters in Belgium


As a backlash against immigration grows, ultra-right parties are gaining adherents across Europe. How strong are they?


What do these parties stand for?

Far-right parties have been gaining across the EU for several years, as nations that were once nearly entirely white and Christian have absorbed large numbers of Muslim immigrants from the Middle East and North Africa. These parties are right wing in a very European sense: They tend to be nationalistic, favoring promotion of Christian values and strict limits on immigration, but also support a strong welfare state for native Europeans. Their overarching theme is that the benefits of a country should go to the Europeans who were born there and pay taxes there, not to newcomers. In last year’s elections to the European Parliament, the EU’s legislative body, far-right parties gained enough seats to have their own bloc, which gives them access to EU funding. Led by Marine Le Pen of France’s National Front, the group includes the Dutch Party of Freedom, Italy’s Lega Nord, and the Austrian Freedom Party.

Why now?

Lots of economic and cultural insecurity. The euro financial crisis involving Greece, Italy, Spain, and Portugal struck just as Europe was faced with a mass influx of people from the Middle East and Africa seeking asylum, as well as movement from poorer EU countries to richer ones. Since the global economic crash of 2008, unemployment throughout the EU has jumped from under 7 percent to nearly 11 percent, and most countries cut benefits. Even in such traditionally tolerant and liberal countries as Sweden and Germany, many people began to feel their country was being asked to take in foreigners while citizens were making do with less. Then, too, immigration has visibly changed some of Europe’s oldest cities. Paris had to ban street praying because hundreds of men were spilling out of overcrowded mosques and setting up prayer rugs blocking streets and sidewalks. In Malmö, Sweden, where just half the population is ethnic Swedish, crime has soared as rival immigrant gangs battle one another and police.

How has Sweden reacted?

Sweden long prided itself on its generous asylum policy, welcoming twice as many refugees per capita as any other Western country. In 2014, for example, the country of 9.5 million took in more than 85,000 people, mostly Muslims from Syria, Iraq, and Somalia. But the new arrivals’ failure to assimilate has sent voters stampeding to the right. The Sweden Democrats, a once-reviled party with roots in neo-Nazism, took 13 percent of the vote in last year’s election to become the third-biggest party in Parliament, mostly on a campaign to halt immigration. Over the summer, as the flood of refugees pouring into Europe dominated headlines, the popularity of the Sweden Democrats soared, and now they are the most popular party in Sweden, with more than 25 percent support.

What about Germany?

Germany is a special case, because there the nationalistic far right has been practically outlawed since the end of World War II. With no outlet in mainstream politics, anti-immigrant fervor erupted last October as a street movement in Dresden. For four months, the Patriotic Europeans Against Islamization of the West, or Pegida, organized weekly mass demonstrations calling for strict controls on Muslim immigration. Now the Alternative for Germany, a small anti-EU party, has begun reaching out to Pegida supporters, promising to fight immigration and promote “more children for German families.”

Where else is the far right strong?

It’s well established in France. Le Pen has managed to purge the National Front of the overtly anti-Semitic tone set by her father, party founder Jean-Marie Le Pen. Now the National Front is considered mainstream, taking 25 percent of the vote in local elections this year. Polls show that Le Pen may be one of just two candidates to make into the second round of the 2017 presidential election amid rising anti-immigrant sentiment. In Denmark, meanwhile, the far right is now part of the government. The Danish People’s Party soared to second place in the June elections, amid public disgust over a shooting rampage in Copenhagen in which the son of Palestinian immigrants killed two people and wounded five. Already, it has slashed benefits for migrants in half and begun taking out ads in Lebanese newspapers warning asylum seekers not to come to Denmark. Nowhere, though, is the right stronger than in Hungary.

What’s happening in Hungary?

The neo-fascist Jobbik party, which advocates ethnic purity for Hungary, took 20 percent of the vote last year to become the third-biggest party in Parliament. Its influence has pushed the right-wing ruling party, Fidesz, even further rightward. Hungary has built a razor-wire fence along the border with Serbia in an attempt to keep out migrants, and Prime Minister Viktor Orban said the EU should not accept people who have “a radically different culture” and religion. “Is it not worrying in itself that European Christianity is now barely able to keep Europe Christian?” he said. “We have no option but to defend our borders.”

Thanking ‘Mama Merkel’

While the far right has gained strength, it still represents a minority of Europeans. Many Europeans, in fact, are appalled by the rise of these parties, and have staged large demonstrations in support of their immigrant populations. After vandals threw firebombs at several Swedish mosques this year, Swedes responded with “love bombs,” covering mosque doors with paper hearts and notes of support. In Iceland last week, after the government said it would accept just 50 Syrian refugees, more than 15,000 Icelanders volunteered to sponsor refugee families in their own homes. In stadiums across Germany, soccer fans have been hanging banners saying, “Welcome refugees.” Chancellor Angela Merkel has made a point of saying Germany has a responsibility to accept refugees from the brutal civil war in Syria, and some Syrians are calling her “Mama Merkel’’ and “Compassionate Mother.’’ “German people deserve to be thanked,” said Syrian refugee Monis Bukhari, who arrived in Berlin two years ago and already has a German passport. “They showed us so much sympathy.”

Source (http://theweek.com/articles/576490/rise-europes-far-right)

[Petroskoijari]

I hope that it only keeps on growing.

[Bezprym]

"Far" is always wrong, no matter if sometimes have quite good ideas.

[Marusya]

"Far" is always wrong, no matter if sometimes have quite good ideas.

Look at the problems Svoboda and Pravyi Sektor have caused in Ukraine. I do I agree with this part of the far-right's philosophy: "Their overarching theme is that the benefits of a country should go to the Europeans who were born there and pay taxes there, not to newcomers." Especially because many countries are still recovering from 2008 economic crisis and the huge loss of jobs. Many Americans are supporting right-leaning political parties because of the huge financial burden of illegal immigration on our welfare system and our society.

[Bezprym]

Look at the problems Svoboda and Pravyi Sektor have caused in Ukraine. I do I agree with this part of the far-right's philosophy: "Their overarching theme is that the benefits of a country should go to the Europeans who were born there and pay taxes there, not to newcomers." Especially because many countries are still recovering from 2008 economic crisis and the huge loss of jobs. Many Americans are supporting right-leaning political parties because of the huge financial burden of illegal immigration on our welfare system and our society.

Leaning towards Right Wing is healthy. But leaning towards Far Right, never is. I can agree with some statements, but it doesn't equals self-identifying with any political ideology.

For instance, far right in Ukraine has a reputation of nazis. Far right in Poland has a reputation of illiterate hooligans, who celebrate the Independence Day in destroying Warsaw. Far right is always a bunch of people, whose brain sticked to the Middle Ages. They hate everyone who is not one of them. Something like: "I will not learn German, because they declared war in '39", "I will not learn Russian, because they were commies", "I will learn only Polish, because I am so stupid that I make mistakes even in my native language, kórwa".

[Imamudin]

Leaning towards Right Wing is healthy. But leaning towards Far Right, never is. I can agree with some statements, but it doesn't equals self-identifying with any political ideology.

For instance, far right in Ukraine has a reputation of nazis. Far right in Poland has a reputation of illiterate hooligans, who celebrate the Independence Day in destroying Warsaw. Far right is always a bunch of people, whose brain sticked to the Middle Ages. They hate everyone who is not one of them. Something like: "I will not learn German, because they declared war in '39", "I will not learn Russian, because they were commies", "I will learn only Polish, because I am so stupid that I make mistakes even in my native language, kórwa".

Given the current situation, in which Europe has developed, a bit far right would be quite appropriate.

[Bezprym]

Given the current situation, in which Europe has developed, a bit far right would be quite appropriate.

Polish far right member and Ukrainian far right member on a discussion about Lviv:

http://www.gazetalowiecka.pl/images/11_gallery_20140901152701/thumb_image2_20140901_153004.jpeg

[Katil Georgi]

I hope that it only keeps on growing.
If the "tolerance" is growing .

[Insuperable]

Nice.

[Wadaad]

Given the current situation, in which Europe has developed, a bit far right would be quite appropriate.

Another disgusting bootlicking wog

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8091/8358984042_0976f0a729_b.jpg

hope a neo nazi pisses on you on the subway, lol

[Atvend]

"Far" is always wrong, no matter if sometimes have quite good ideas.

"Far" is always necessary. The right wing has been completely stomped precisely because they have been bullied out of having an extreme side. Their extremists get mocked and ridiculed while the leftist equivalent has infested the academia and gets to be treated as intellectual.

[Bezprym]

"Far" is always necessary. The right wing has been completely stomped precisely because they have been bullied out of having an extreme side. Their extremists get mocked and ridiculed while the leftist equivalent has infested the academia and gets to be treated as intellectual.

I mentioned only "far", without adding "right" - I omitted it on purpose.

However, extreme leftists at least do not engage in fights with the police, they do not throw stones on windows, do not damage parked cars, do not broke benches etc. Far right does it. And this is why I have nothing better to say about them, than anything full of disgust. If they consider themselves as patriots, they choose a very strange way to show it.

[Imamudin]

Another disgusting bootlicking wog

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8091/8358984042_0976f0a729_b.jpg

hope a neo nazi pisses on you on the subway, lol

What the fuck?

[Imamudin]

"Far" is always necessary. The right wing has been completely stomped precisely because they have been bullied out of having an extreme side. Their extremists get mocked and ridiculed while the leftist equivalent has infested the academia and gets to be treated as intellectual.

Agreed. Europe needs far right radicalism right now as opposed to the current leftist madness to create a healthy balance.

[Hydromorphone]

I mentioned only "far", without adding "right" - I omitted it on purpose.

However, extreme leftists at least do not engage in fights with the police, they do not throw stones on windows, do not damage parked cars, do not broke benches etc. Far right does it. And this is why I have nothing better to say about them, than anything full of disgust. If they consider themselves as patriots, they choose a very strange way to show it.

The 'far left' certainly does do that. The root of many riots in the U.S, amongst racial tensions, is politically justified according to leftists. Reactionaries against the 'state' and police are often very far left in their politics, communistic at times as well. It's part of the 'white privilege, police state, pro-LGBT' line of thinking. A lot of these people are so far left they even complain about Bernie Sanders, criticize him for being white and not giving enough word to african-americans and whoever else they consider to be disenfranchised.

[Bezprym]

The 'far left' certainly does do that. The root of many riots in the U.S, amongst racial tensions, is politically justified according to leftists. Reactionaries against the 'state' and police are often very far left in their politics, communistic at times as well. It's part of the 'white privilege, police state, pro-LGBT' line of thinking. A lot of these people are so far left they even complain about Bernie Sanders, criticize him for being white and not giving enough word to african-americans and whoever else they consider to be disenfranchised.

I don't know who is Bernie Sanders, and neither about the situation in the U.S. I was refering to a bit closer areas than U.S. which is suggested in the name of thread.

"Far left" can be generally considered as communism. I don't know about other European countries, but in Poland according to the Constitution it is illegal for such parties and organizations to exist. Same goes with nazi and fascist organizations and parties, but "far right" is not necessarily a synonyme. So it is impossible in Poland for "far left" to do anything wrong, as such a thing simply doesn't exist (generally, but there are some irrelevant morons everywhere).

Here you have a very brief example of far right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAcztadB02k

Being pro-LGBT, pro-anything doesn't equals with being aggressive.

[Marusya]

I don't know who is Bernie Sanders, and neither about the situation in the U.S. I was refering to a bit closer areas than U.S. which is suggested in the name of thread.

"Far left" can be generally considered as communism. I don't know about other European countries, but in Poland according to the Constitution it is illegal for such parties and organizations to exist. Same goes with nazi and fascist organizations and parties, but "far right" is not necessarily a synonyme. So it is impossible in Poland for "far left" to do anything wrong, as such a thing simply doesn't exist (generally, but there are some irrelevant morons everywhere).

Here you have a very brief example of far right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAcztadB02k

Being pro-LGBT, pro-anything doesn't equals with being aggressive.

That reminds of the violence in Kyiv on the night of January 22, 2014. The destruction, orchestrated by Pravyi Sektor, provided powerful images, but was very wrong. The US State Department condemned the violence: "...the aggressive actions of members of extreme-right group Pravy Sektor are not acceptable and are inflaming conditions on the streets and undermining the efforts of peaceful protestors..."

Video from that night:

https://vimeo.com/128513924

[Nurzat]

The Rise of Europe's Far Right

God bless :ranger:

[Marusya]

God bless :ranger:

Is there a Far-right movement in Romania? If so, what is it called?

[Nurzat]

Is there a Far-right movement in Romania? If so, what is it called?

yeah, it is old but quite unpopular. I personally don't like the Romanian far-right and many of them are just idiots. they have a very childish take on right politics. they are in favour of a national state (which doesn't apply to Romania, as there are large minorities like Hungarians and Ukrainians), they are very Orthodox and Church is very important to them, they are against federalization of the country and they are against giving autonomy to regions where minorities are over 80-90% (like Szekely Land of the Hungarians). so I don't like Romanian far right at all. they are childish and idealistic, with no common sense.

I come from a compact minority community myself (the Ruthenians/Ukrainians of Bukovina and Maramureș).

also, I don't like Ukrainian far right either, as I am not anti-Russian and I don't praise Slavic heritage at that fanatic level, I just normally respect it and try to follow the main rituals. also, I am not that desperate for the European Union as West Ukrainians are

[Bezprym]

That reminds of the violence in Kyiv on the night of January 22, 2014. The destruction, orchestrated by Pravyi Sektor, provided powerful images, but was very wrong. The US State Department condemned the violence: "...the aggressive actions of members of extreme-right group Pravy Sektor are not acceptable and are inflaming conditions on the streets and undermining the efforts of peaceful protestors..."


Situation in Ukraine back then was a bit different, so it is a bit difficult for me to "judge" - however I am definitely not a fan of Pravyi Sektor. Also, I do not follow enthusiastically what Pravyi Sektor is doing in Ukraine, but such things as I have posted are routine. It happens every year in 11th November in Warsaw. I do not know what Ruch Narodowy (National Movement) is trying to prove. What they achieve is that during this one of most important days for Poland, normal people are afraid to celebrate publicly by attending the march. They changed this day to the day of vandalism.

By the way, US condemnation is not relevant, to be honest.

[Marusya]

Situation in Ukraine back then was a bit different, so it is a bit difficult to "judge". Also, I do not follow enthusiastically what Pravyi Sektor is doing in Ukraine, but such things as I have posted are routine. It happens every year in 11th November in Warsaw. I do not know what Ruch Narodowy (National Movement) is trying to prove. What they achieve is that during this one of most important days for Poland, normal people are afraid to celebrate publicly by attending the march. They changed this day to the day of vandalism.

By the way, US condemnation is not relevant, to be honest.

Every year? That the Ruch Narodowy don't see the irony in their destruction is beyond belief. "We are Pro-Poland, Poland for Poles, so let's terrorize our people and destroy one of our great cities!" Crazy.

[Murri]

No far right here, but physical confrontations between Albanians and Slavs happen quite often, the media sometimes takes a 'far right' stance and tends to throw shit on us.

[Bezprym]

Every year? That the Ruch Narodowy don't see the irony in their destruction is beyond belief. "We are Pro-Poland, Poland for Poles, so let's terrorize our people and destroy one of our great cities!" Crazy.

Generally yes. They disliked the rainbow once, and identified it with LGBT movement, so they burned it. The leaders of RN wash their hands by saying "I don't take responsibilty for those, who thrown a stone - it was not me = I am not guilty". Well, Hitler also was not killing Jews in person, he had his followers. I don't understand why hooligans are able to have fun in politics.

But others will say in general, that it were not RN members. Every year something happens, and Warsaw authorities have to spend much money and send the police to prevent any "evil situations". Next day places where they were present looks like a battlefield.

In general there are members of various groups, not only RN. That is true. We have some nationalistic rebels in this Polish paradise. For instance National Radical Camp.

[Kastrioti1443]

There will never be a supposed European far right. You have golden gypsy in neo Greece that got 6%, but in the end they are probably the most ridiculous gypsies in Europe that can be trolled by anyone. They are neo Nazis that sell Mein Kampf, while Greeks were killed in hundred thousand by Nazis and thousands died form hunger and while half of golden gypsy members look like half Turks, half north Africans and the two main leaders look like mulattoes.

The same thing is with far right parties in France, Poland or anywhere where Nazis considered the local populations animals while now these parties worship them.

[Hydromorphone]

I don't know who is Bernie Sanders, and neither about the situation in the U.S. I was refering to a bit closer areas than U.S. which is suggested in the name of thread.

"Far left" can be generally considered as communism. I don't know about other European countries, but in Poland according to the Constitution it is illegal for such parties and organizations to exist. Same goes with nazi and fascist organizations and parties, but "far right" is not necessarily a synonyme. So it is impossible in Poland for "far left" to do anything wrong, as such a thing simply doesn't exist (generally, but there are some irrelevant morons everywhere).

Being pro-LGBT, pro-anything doesn't equals with being aggressive.

You may not know them, I mentioned them in context for what I was saying about radical leftists and public mischief, it's misguided to characterize it as typical traits of the far-right when there are examples (including the ones I gave) of it happening there too. You can't mischaracterize the far right as entire hooligans and use it as an example of the civility of the far-left when both have been shown to do similar things.

Being pro anything does have to do with some things, like I said, they are traits that are typically seen in far leftists. 'Anarchocommunists' are often pro-LGBT, pro-whatever else and are staunchly anti-government, anti-police, anti-whitewhatever, and often engage in acts of public mischief, vandalism, and so on. Because these things are very much affiliated with the left wing, I mentioned them. I was not implying being gay means you like to beat the shit out of cops. I was simply illuminating these situations and mentioning them because they are contextually important when you examine radical leftist politics with a critical lense, because like I said, they are common for north america and I doubt they are uncommon in parts of western europe. Central and eastern europe have different political climates, so I don't speak for anything there. I was just responding to your assertion here:

However, extreme leftists at least do not engage in fights with the police, they do not throw stones on windows, do not damage parked cars, do not broke benches etc. Far right does it. And this is why I have nothing better to say about them, than anything full of disgust

This is untrue, at least for north america. Often those engaging with the police tend to be exclusively left-wing. A Guelph group of radical feminist communists (by their own words, not mine) sabotaged a fleet of Nestle trucks by slashing their tires, threw a brick through a store window of a herbal health shop for 'promoting unhealthy ideas about fitness and beauty', amongst other things. I am very much more than willing to quote any of these for you. This was just in my small town of Guelph, Ontario. I haven't even ventured into Toronto. The radical leftists here are quite often more violent than the far right, likely because of the current political climate in Canada being more centre-left aligned than the U.S. I do not say this as someone who is far-right. I've said it before I value harmony before all else, reluctant to really 'take a side' because my politics are fluid and always based on information and proper context, but there is both good and bad to both radical leftists and right wingers.

[Berahthraban]

There will never be a supposed European far right. You have golden gypsy in neo Greece that got 6%, but in the end they are probably the most ridiculous gypsies in Europe that can be trolled by anyone. They are neo Nazis that sell Mein Kampf, while Greeks were killed in hundred thousand by Nazis and thousands died form hunger and while half of golden gypsy members look like half Turks, half north Africans and the two main leaders look like mulattoes.

The same thing is with far right parties in France, Poland or anywhere where Nazis considered the local populations animals while now these parties worship them.

What has that to do with year 2015? Things change, the Romans considered Germans to be barbarians. It was all propaganda, you must be really ignorant, I hate to use that word, if you think the nazis saw french people as animals.

[Bezprym]

You may not know them, I mentioned them in context for what I was saying about radical leftists and public mischief, it's misguided to characterize it as typical traits of the far-right when there are examples (including the ones I gave) of it happening there too. You can't mischaracterize the far right as entire hooligans and use it as an example of the civility of the far-left when both have been shown to do similar things.

Can you please read the first post I have written here? :D I wrote about "far" being wrong, not necessarily only "far right". Far in general, it is about left as well.


Being pro anything does have to do with some things, like I said, they are traits that are typically seen in far leftists. 'Anarchocommunists' are often pro-LGBT, pro-whatever else and are staunchly anti-government, anti-police, anti-whitewhatever, and often engage in acts of public mischief, vandalism, and so on. I was simply illuminating these situations, because like I said, they are common for north america and I doubt there are uncommon in parts of western europe. Central and eastern europe have different political climates, so I don't speak for anything there. I was just responding to your assertion here:

However, extreme leftists at least do not engage in fights with the police, they do not throw stones on windows, do not damage parked cars, do not broke benches etc. Far right does it. And this is why I have nothing better to say about them, than anything full of disgust

This is untrue, at least for north america. Often those engaging with the police tend to be exclusively left-wing. A Guelph group of radical feminist communists (by their own words, not mine) sabotaged a fleet of Nestle trucks by slashing their tires, threw a brick through a store window of a herbal health shop for 'promoting unhealthy ideas about fitness and beauty', amongst other things. I am very much more than willing to quote any of these for you. This was just in my small town of Guelph, Ontario. I haven't even ventured into Toronto. The radical leftists here are quite often more violent than the violent right, likely because of the current political climate in Canada being more centre-left aligned than the U.S.

This may be untrue for North America, but I nowhere said anything about North America. I am referring only to my yard, where this is totally true. So I base on my experience and on my post-communist country where extreme leftists are unable to gain any power. So they are unable to make any riots, unlike far right. Far left may be present in America, as this part of Earth had not experienced communism, and was not occupied by communism. And as this thread is about "Europe's Far Right", only what happens here does matter - so obviously what is "true" for Europe is not necessarily for America. That means, saying "this is untrue", because something opposite happens in places that are not related to the topic (= are irrelevant) doesn't prove anything.

If we will be talking about far left in general, I will be able to agree. But I was talking about Poland in particular. It is like someone says: "Ottawa is capital city of Canada", and the other guy will respond: "No! Because Ottawa is not a capital city of Iceland!". Iceland is pointless here, as mentioning Ottawa refers ONLY to Canada. Reykjavik has nothing to do with it.

[Kastrioti1443]

What has that to do with year 2015? Things change, the Romans considered Germans to be barbarians. It was all propaganda, you must be really ignorant, I hate to use that word, if you think the nazis saw french people as animals.

I am not ignorant at all, and Hitler was planing to starve millions of french. Barbarian meant foreigner and we are talking about a specific regime, not a hundreds years long lasting empire such as Rome.

[Berahthraban]

I am not ignorant at all, and Hitler was planing to starve millions of french. Barbarian meant foreigner and we are talking about a specific regime, not a hundreds years long lasting empire such as Rome.

We can agree to disagree but surely someone as racist as Hitler couldn't hate his fellow Europeans that much. I believe it was for propaganda purposes. What I mean is that it was war time, I don't think he hated French people for their ethnicity.

[Marusya]

Can you please read the first post I have written here? :D I wrote about "far" being wrong, not necessarily only "far right". Far in general, it is about left as well.



This may be untrue for North America, but I nowhere said anything about North America. I am referring only to my yard, where this is totally true. So I base on my experience and on my post-communist country where extreme leftists are unable to gain any power. So they are unable to make any riots, unlike far right. Far left may be present in America, as this part of Earth had not experienced communism, and was not occupied by communism. And as this thread is about "Europe's Far Right", only what happens here does matter - so obviously what is "true" for Europe is not necessarily for America. That means, saying "this is untrue", because something opposite happens in places that are not related to the topic (= are irrelevant) doesn't prove anything.

If we will be talking about far left in general, I will be able to agree.

Yes, the thread topic is meant to discuss Europe's Far Right. The type of violence and activities done by European Far Right groups does not exist in USA or Canada, at the present time. The Far Right activities in Europe are political. American protests, violent or non-violent, of recent history have occurred for different reasons. Mostly social and economic, not political statements or to over-throw a political regime.

[Bezprym]

Yes, the thread topic is meant to discuss Europe's Far Right. The type of violence and activities done by European Far Right groups does not exist in USA or Canada, at the present time. The Far Right activities in Europe are political. American protests, violent or non-violent, of recent history have occurred for different reasons. Mostly social and economic, not political statements or to over-thrown a political regime.

Murica was always different :p

[Marusya]

Murica was always different :p

We out here in the ocean, all alone. :lol:

[Imamudin]

I am not ignorant at all, and Hitler was planing to starve millions of french. Barbarian meant foreigner and we are talking about a specific regime, not a hundreds years long lasting empire such as Rome.

Are you seriously that dumb and naive? They didn't consider anyone in Europe animals, that's only propaganda you fell for.

[Hydromorphone]

Can you please read the first post I have written here? :D I wrote about "far" being wrong, not necessarily only "far right". Far in general, it is about left as well.

This may be untrue for North America, but I nowhere said anything about North America. I am referring only to my yard, where this is totally true. So I base on my experience and on my post-communist country where extreme leftists are unable to gain any power. So they are unable to make any riots, unlike far right. Far left may be present in America, as this part of Earth had not experienced communism, and was not occupied by communism. And as this thread is about "Europe's Far Right", only what happens here does matter - so obviously what is "true" for Europe is not necessarily for America. That means, saying "this is untrue", because something opposite happens in places that are not related to the topic (= are irrelevant) doesn't prove anything.

If we will be talking about far left in general, I will be able to agree. But I was talking about Poland in particular. It is like someone says: "Ottawa is capital city of Canada", and the other guy will respond: "No! Because Ottawa is not a capital city of Iceland!". Iceland is pointless here, as mentioning Ottawa refers ONLY to Canada. Reykjavik has nothing to do with it.

That's semantics. Yes, it's contextual, but it's still important regardless of where it happens. It simply illuminates the point that it doesn't truly matter who throws the stone, extremists on any side will do the same if given the chance. Radical leftists may not have that chance in Poland, but if they did, they would. Probably.

Yes, I read your first post. I was not referring to your first post, I was referring to your later post where you said X engages in this behaviour, Y doesn't. I was not debating your first statement about radical groups being wrong, just your later comment. This isn't a matter of what happened in my local town. Radical leftists in Germany and other European countries (as per the OP topic) have gone as far as to organize into cels and assassinate people. Same shit, different continent. It's all the same regardless of nationality. Poland itself may not see this particular brand but it doesn't mean Europe as a whole doesn't, or any other continent.

So if we follow this debate to it's logical conclusion and engage in little semantics, sure, we agree; Poland may not see this type of violence, and your statement holds ground. But it doesn't for Germany, France, or Canada, or much of Europe. It makes little sense to make the distinction simply for Poland, because these are far branching ideologies partly inspired by, and continuing the legacy of old political thoughts native to Europe. The bombings of government buildings and assassination of Government officials by radical left communists in Europe are just the publicized events, I am sure there are just as many small scale vandalism attacks like I mentioned for my town in Canada.

If I can offer a little metaphor of my own, it's less of city capitals, more like "Beavers don't make dams in MY country" when in fact, they make them in every other one. Of course, metaphors don't mean much and it is important to make the distinction between these things for discussion of local Polish politics, but this is regarding Europe at large. Ironically, most of the violent radical left in Europe - at least many of them - were formed as neo-reactionaries against fascism and Nazism. Of course, the cloud of WW2 hangs over Europe to this day, but so does the cloud of communism. I hold little love for either violent radical group, be it left or right. Of course, I know you do too, which means we'll likely just keep debating semantics despite (more or less) agreeing about the same thing so I think I'll stop this post right here before blabbing on about whatever else. I like to talk about what I know best first and foremost which is why I mentioned N. America, but what has happened here has happened in Europe before (not always in the same form, but very similar); all of it is just context for why I originally disagreed with your one statement. Like I said, obviously you know best, and if it doesn't happen in Poland, I wholeheartedly believe you and can't refute it. But it does hold true for most of continental Europe and N. America. Radical leftists are usually just as bad as radical right. The framework of left vs right is one I dislike anways, the pendulum swings back and forth in many countries, so perhaps it's best to just describe it as humans with violent hearts who want to wreak havoc and simply choose the political belief best suited for the kind of mischief they want to achieve.

[Kastrioti1443]

Are you seriously that dumb and naive? They didn't consider anyone in Europe animals, that's only propaganda you fell for.

I see what they did. Nazism was just for Germans,this idiotic pan europanism was invented these last 20 years. Why do you care about Europe anyway and Nazis. You are not from Europe or Germany.

[Marusya]

Are you seriously that dumb and naive? They didn't consider anyone in Europe animals, that's only propaganda you fell for.

Explain this then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ost-Arbeiter

[Kastrioti1443]

We can agree to disagree but surely someone as racist as Hitler couldn't hate his fellow Europeans that much. I believe it was for propaganda purposes. What I mean is that it was war time, I don't think he hated French people for their ethnicity.

Lol he did, a lot in fact.

[Imamudin]

I see what they did. Nazism was just for Germans,this idiotic pan europanism was invented these last 20 years. Why do you care about Europe anyway and Nazis. You are not from Europe or Germany.

Of course, the Caucasus is Eastern Europe, what else?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The last time Europe had such many far right follwers....

Pictures we're in Black and White, and germany was called the third Reich.....

[Imamudin]

Explain this then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ost-Arbeiter

Those were probably just ordinary POW's assigned to forced labor.

[Marusya]

Those were probably just ordinary POW's assigned to forced labor.

Nope.


Eastern Worker(s)') was a designation for slave workers gathered from Central and Eastern Europe to do forced labor in Germany during World War II. The Ostarbeiters were mostly from the territory of Reichskommissariat Ukraine (eastern Ukraine). Ukrainians made up the largest portion although many Belarusians, Poles, Russians, and Tatars were also present.[1] Estimates put the number of Ostarbeiters between 3 million and 5.5 million.[1]

Most were very young, under the age of 16, as those older than 16 were usually conscripted. 30% were as young as 12–14 years of age when they were taken to Germany.[1] By November 1943 the age limit was dropped to 10.[1] 50% of those taken from Ukraine were girls and women.

Ostarbeiters from Reichskommissariat Ukraine were forced to wear a dark blue and white badge with "OST" written on it, the German word for east in upper-case letters.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Of course, the Caucasus is Eastern Europe, what else?

Are you crazy, as if they'll going to let a country with a large devout Muslim population anywhere Europe...

And now hear this:
56.7% of male Chechens display the Haplogroup J2, which is associated with the Semitic populations today found in Israel, much of the Middle East and southern Italy.
Source:
http://newobserveronline.com/what-racial-group-are-chechens/

Muslim and Semetic ?

No way José, are they going to consider you European....

But I'll tell you that much, Chechen make some of the best and toughest soldiers in a battlefield....

My uncle is fighting them in Iraq, alongside central asians aswell.... They seem to be very fond of the ISIS, Neo-caliphate ideology somehow

[Imamudin]

Nope.

So what? Women and children can also be used for forced labor. However, you should not believe everything from Wikipedia.

[Marusya]

So what? Women and children can also be used for forced labor. However, you should not believe everything from Wikipedia.

I don't need Wikipedia to tell me this is true. I personally have known a Polish woman who was taken as a forced laborer by the Nazis. Using anyone as forced laborers is a crime against humanity.

[Imamudin]

Are you crazy, as if they'll going to let a country with a large devout Muslim population anywhere Europe...

And now hear this:
56.7% of male Chechens display the Haplogroup J2, which is associated with the Semitic populations today found in Israel, much of the Middle East and southern Italy.
Source:
http://newobserveronline.com/what-racial-group-are-chechens/

Muslim and Semetic ?

No way José, are they going to consider you European....

But I'll tell you that much, Chechen make some of the best and toughest soldiers in a battlefield....

My uncle is fighting them in Iraq, alongside central asians aswell.... They seem to be very fond of the ISIS, Neo-caliphate ideology somehow

The Chechen J1/J2 originate in Caucasus and are different subclades than those in Middle East.

R1a can also be found in high frequencies in India, does it make Slavs Indians?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/R1a_distribution_Eurasia.jpg

[Imamudin]

I don't need Wikipedia to tell me this is true. I personally have known a Polish woman who was taken as a forced laborer by the Nazis. Using anyone as forced laborers is a crime against humanity.

That's another debate, but Soviets and Americans did the same.

[Bezprym]

That's semantics. Yes, it's contextual, but it's still important regardless of where it happens. It simply illuminates the point that it doesn't truly matter who throws the stone, extremists on any side will do the same if given the chance. Radical leftists may not have that chance in Poland, but if they did, they would. Probably.

Probably yes. But bolsheviks are aware since 1919-1920 they are not welcome here. Unfortunately, some cunning Soviets were able to spread their red disease for few decades. Nowadays they are even less welcome.


Yes, I read your first post. I was not referring to your first post, I was referring to your later post where you said X engages in this behaviour, Y doesn't.

Y doesn't in particular area, because it doesn't exist.


Poland itself may not see this particular brand but it doesn't mean Europe as a whole doesn't, or any other continent.

True. But when I mention only Polish organizations, presenting videos from Poland, about Poland, I thought it is very obvious I talk only about Poland and its far right, in response to those who said "it is necessary for them to exist".


So if we follow this debate to it's logical conclusion and engage in little semantics, sure, we agree; Poland may not see this type of violence, and your statement holds ground. But it doesn't for Germany, France, or Canada, or much of Europe. It makes little sense to make the distinction simply for Poland, because these are far branching ideologies partly inspired by, and continuing the legacy of old political thoughts native to Europe. The bombings of government buildings and assassination of Government officials by radical left communists in Europe are just the publicized events, I am sure there are just as many small scale vandalism attacks like I mentioned for my town in Canada.

True.


But it does hold true for most of continental Europe and N. America.

Yes, that is why I underlined that I talked about Poland, while I have not referred to North America.

In general I see we agree, and we simply discuss about details here. ;) Both fractions - far right and far left can be considered dangerous, as every single extreme ideology. I would even say, such fractions are most dangerous to the countries they originate from, not for any possible immigrants.

[Bezprym]

I don't need Wikipedia to tell me this is true. I personally have known a Polish woman who was taken as a forced laborer by the Nazis. Using anyone as forced laborers is a crime against humanity.

And everyone who supports the idea even by putting a nazi as an avatar should receive a bullet in skull. In my opinion.

[Imamudin]

And everyone who supports the idea even by putting a nazi as an avatar should receive a bullet in skull. In my opinion.

Then you're not better than those you condemn.

[Hydromorphone]

Probably yes. But bolsheviks are aware since 1919-1920 they are not welcome here. Unfortunately, some cunning Soviets were able to spread their red disease for few decades. Nowadays they are even less welcome.



Y doesn't in particular area, because it doesn't exist.



True. But when I mention only Polish organizations, presenting videos from Poland, about Poland, I thought it is very obvious I talk only about Poland and its far right, in response to those who said "it is necessary for them to exist".



True.



Yes, that is why I underlined that I talked about Poland, while I have not referred to North America.

In general I see we agree, and we simply discuss about details here. ;) Both fractions - far right and far left can be considered dangerous, as every single extreme ideology. I would even say, such fractions are most dangerous to the countries they originate from, not for any possible immigrants.

Well, there you go. I have to say I originally replied to your comment about the leftists not doing whatever to clarify that they did in other places, I was unaware you were strictly talking about Poland in that case, so that was just lost in translation there (before you clarified you were talking about Poland) but since we basically agree on everything else, there's not much else to say; I didn't originally even reply to debate Polish politics :p so there you go.

Off-topic now, but I can't imagine, in your/Polands case, that living with radical right wing is better than the radical left wing. At my old university they had an old magazine called 'The Anarchist' and it was all about how to radically do stuff - how to radically have sex, how to radically slash tires, how to radically subvert the patriarchy by being gay and (spoilered for minors)

ejaculating on our beloved cannon from old wars in Canada

Yeah... They did that. Maybe if they were right wing they would have refurbished the cannon to launch at a local feminist meeting? :lol: Who knows.

[Bezprym]

Then you're not better than those you condemn.

Are you taking everything so literally? ;)

We [Poles] have a law that forbids promoting any totalitarian system. The law should be followed - if not, should be enforced. If someone breaks the law, should be prosecuted. But not by NKVD methods, don't worry, I was not that much serious with bullets in skull.

Polish constitution says: Who publicly promotes fascist or other totalitarian system, or calls for hatred on ethnic, national, racial or religious background, will be prosecuted by fine or imprisonment up to 2 years. Next paragraph says about having any symbols.

I prefer to enforce the law, than killing people. Unfortunately, wearing a t-shirt with communist symbol or Soviet ushanka is not prosecuted and is considered only as some hipster bullshit.

[Bezprym]

Off-topic now, but I can't imagine, in your/Polands case, that living with radical right wing is better than the radical left wing. At my old university they had an old magazine called 'The Anarchist' and it was all about how to radically do stuff - how to radically have sex, how to radically slash tires, how to radically subvert the patriarchy by being gay and (spoilered for minors)


I don't know if it is better. Far right mostly breaks the law by spreading some stuff about hatred, sometimes they tend to be aggressive and make riots in 11th November. I think it is lesser evil to have some maniacs here, but it would be nice, if law enforcement will be more radical in punishing those, who commit such crimes, i.e. devastating the city.

But if far right will equals with nazism, I would rather prefer far left. However, I mostly prefer none of these options.

By the way, do you have any sociological explanation, why so many North Americans tend to be far leftists? Some reasons for supporting anarchism?

[Hydromorphone]

I don't know if it is better. Far right mostly breaks the law by spreading some stuff about hatred, sometimes they tend to be aggressive and make riots in 11th November. I think it is lesser evil to have some maniacs here, but it would be nice, if law enforcement will be more radical in punishing those, who commit such crimes, i.e. devastating the city.

But if far right will equals with nazism, I would rather prefer far left. However, I mostly prefer none of these options.

By the way, do you have any sociological explanation, why so many North Americans tend to be far leftists? Some reasons for supporting anarchism?

Well, it makes sense why the far-right may have less inclination in N.America than Europe, largely due to many historical reasons.

I actually have a couple of theories why the far-right has less of a foothold here, and why people are more inclined towards leftism in general, not just communism, but also anarchism. It also explains why radical leftism has more of a whiff of populism in N.America compared to say, Germany, where the radical leftists weren't young hipsters throwing bricks but organized political cels who conducted things we would consider more akin to domestic terrorism than petty vandalism.

I've written a few essays on the topic actually. It's actually 6am here right now so I need to sign off, but if you're actually interested I could reply or send a PM in the morning. They're all topics I'm interested in so I can write quite a lot about it. I think I once wrote a post about the US's failed War on Drugs that was longer than an essay I turned in during my 4th year :p

[Bezprym]

Well, it makes sense why the far-right may have less inclination in N.America than Europe, largely due to many historical reasons.

I actually have a couple of theories why the far-right has less of a foothold here, and why people are more inclined towards leftism in general, not just communism, but also anarchism. It also explains why radical leftism has more of a whiff of populism in N.America compared to say, Germany, where the radical leftists weren't young hipsters throwing bricks but organized political cels who conducted things we would consider more akin to domestic terrorism than petty vandalism.

I've written a few essays on the topic actually. It's actually 6am here right now so I need to sign off, but if you're actually interested I could reply or send a PM in the morning. They're all topics I'm interested in so I can write quite a lot about it. I think I once wrote a post about the US's failed War on Drugs that was longer than an essay I turned in during my 4th year :p

Write me a PM later then. :) As a Sociology student I feel obliged to be interested on this topic either :) I think I have some theories about far right here as well. :p

[Linebacker]

Its not really on any kind of rise.Its more like people making demonstrations and even further alienating themselves from their own society.

You simply cannot win a war with the government and the media in these times.

[Sideritis]

"Far" is always necessary. The right wing has been completely stomped precisely because they have been bullied out of having an extreme side. Their extremists get mocked and ridiculed while the leftist equivalent has infested the academia and gets to be treated as intellectual.

So could you mention a moment in history when "far" parties where necessary and actually managed to improve any national situation?

[Empecinado]

I notice in the last months there is an increase of dissidents against the Liberal dogmas. I don't hide my ideas and when talk in public I have changed opinions of some Liberals and found many people who think like me and supported my views in public too.

Even if you read forums, online newspapers, facebook sites...you'll notice more and more people are opposing to Liberals, despite all the media propaganda efforts. In many cases they are shouting down comments and even deativating comments in news, because over 90% of opinions didn't fit the Liberal sick views.

That's simply because you can't fool people forever, doesn't matter how powerful you are. Sooner or later, truth prevails.

[Atvend]

So could you mention a moment in history when "far" parties where necessary and actually managed to improve any national situation?

When did I ever make the claim that "far" parties improve national situations? That is not why they are necessary. After all improvement as a notion is just as subjective as history itself.

They are necessary because they do not lack conviction and fanaticism, they will not back down to pressure like moderates do. Moderates in comparison are quite spineless, their devotion lies not with their ideology but with having an image of being "politically mature" among their peers. The moment a certain viewpoint becomes socially denounced they are the first to bail out on it and compromise the political balance. Purging one side of extremism in the political spectrum merely allows the other to form a monopoly.

[LightHouse89]

yeah, it is old but quite unpopular. I personally don't like the Romanian far-right and many of them are just idiots. they have a very childish take on right politics. they are in favour of a national state (which doesn't apply to Romania, as there are large minorities like Hungarians and Ukrainians), they are very Orthodox and Church is very important to them, they are against federalization of the country and they are against giving autonomy to regions where minorities are over 80-90% (like Szekely Land of the Hungarians). so I don't like Romanian far right at all. they are childish and idealistic, with no common sense.

I come from a compact minority community myself (the Ruthenians/Ukrainians of Bukovina and Maramureș).

also, I don't like Ukrainian far right either, as I am not anti-Russian and I don't praise Slavic heritage at that fanatic level, I just normally respect it and try to follow the main rituals. also, I am not that desperate for the European Union as West Ukrainians are

She is apart of the Southern Poverty Law Center here in JewSA. I wouldnt trust her.

[LightHouse89]

Its not really on any kind of rise.Its more like people making demonstrations and even further alienating themselves from their own society.

You simply cannot win a war with the government and the media in these times.

Both of which are ran by the Jews.

[LightHouse89]

I don't need Wikipedia to tell me this is true. I personally have known a Polish woman who was taken as a forced laborer by the Nazis. Using anyone as forced laborers is a crime against humanity.

Poles deserved it anyway. They massacred Germans [the finest being Prussians]. So I dont feel sorry for Pollacks.

[LightHouse89]

I notice in the last months there is an increase of dissidents against the Liberal dogmas. I don't hide my ideas and when talk in public I have changed opinions of some Liberals and found many people who think like me and supported my views in public too.

Even if you read forums, online newspapers, facebook sites...you'll notice more and more people are opposing to Liberals, despite all the media propaganda efforts. In many cases they are shouting down comments and even deativating comments in news, because over 90% of opinions didn't fit the Liberal sick views.

That's simply because you can't fool people forever, doesn't matter how powerful you are. Sooner or later, truth prevails.

America is the exact opposite. Maybe thats good. I am gald europe is not becoming more like america and actually fighting back. Every american military base in western europe needs to be purged. Kick the americans out!

[Bezprym]

Poles deserved it anyway. They massacred Germans [the finest being Prussians]. So I dont feel sorry for Pollacks.

Awwww. These evil Poles...

[Arhat]

Who controls the media controls everything. The media hate far right wing groups and will present them so unsympathetic as possible so I doubt that the Far right has a realistic chance to come to power in one of the major European states. But the far right will likely gain some popularity because Europe is ruled by pussies now and many people are unhappy with this but I doubt they will topple the current liberal governments

[Mortimer]

I dont hate anyone but to be fair metropolitan areas like London are now 40% native british and another 25% other white, thats half of the city which is non-white and less of the half is only british. Other areas are similar in Europe. That cant be the solution either. Eventhough they probably dont like me i can understand Europeans who are upset. I dont know where i side, im divided.

[Sockorer]

God is with the Far Right.