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The Lawspeaker
08-26-2010, 08:41 PM
Top 6 Most Indebted Countries (And Why) (http://financialedge.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0810/Top-6-Most-Indebted-Countries-And-Why.aspx)

The recent financial crisis and recession have been a worldwide occurrence. The events in the United States since 2008 have garnered most of the headlines because the U. S. has the world's largest economy and national debt, but the reality is that many countries in Europe are in worse financial shape and continue to deteriorate.

There are various ways to rank indebtedness, such as debt per capita (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/netdebtpercapita.asp) and deficit or debt as a function of gross domestic product (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/gdp.asp) (GDP). This ranking is based on cumulative debt as a percentage of GDP and is limited to an analysis of the 25 largest economies. It is further limited to "external" debt, which is the portion of the national debt that is owed only to foreign creditors. The source for the debt and GDP amounts is the Central Intelligence Agency World Factbook most recent numbers from mid to late 2009.

Ireland - Debt/GDP: 997%The days of Ireland enjoying one of the fastest growing economies in Europe are over, at least for now. The story is all too familiar, as easy credit fueled a housing bubble that burst and damaged consumer confidence.

After recording budget surpluses in the prior two years, the economy reversed course in 2009 and contracted 7%. This eroded tax revenues and sent the annual deficit to a record 14.3% of GDP. The European Union set a target for Ireland to reduce that figure to 3% by 2014, but the International Monetary Fund (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/imf.asp) has indicated that the deadline will be missed. Moody's (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/moodys.asp) has subsequently lowered its bond rating. (Learn about credit rating agencies and how were they developed in A Brief History Of Credit Rating Agencies (http://www.investopedia.com/articles/bonds/09/history-credit-rating-agencies.asp).)


Netherlands - Debt/GDP: 467%The national debt in the Netherlands has reached record levels as a result of the world financial crisis and recession. Much of the added burden was caused by significant government support for the country's banking sector. The increase in debt per capita is second only to that experienced in Ireland.

The Netherlands joined the eurozone (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/eurozone.asp) with a hard guilder (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/forex/a/ang-netherlands-antilles-guilder.asp) a decade ago, but its current debt would likely disqualify it for membership.


United Kingdom - Debt/GDP: 409%
Investment bank Morgan Stanley fears that Great Britain could face a severe debt crisis in the near future if it continues down its current path. According to the bank's report, this is a case of not putting aside sufficient reserves when the economy was sound. During the peak of the boom, it still ran a budget deficit of 3% of GDP when other European countries were running surpluses exceeding 2%.

Like many other countries, Britain bought time during the financial crisis by implementing massive fiscal stimulus and forcing the public to fund losses in the private sector. Without the restoration of fiscal credibility, there is a significant danger of a government bond sell-off, pound weakness and a flight of capital. (The stimulus packages through the recession varied from country to country. Learn more in Global Bailout: Did The U.K. Do Enough? (http://financialedge.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1209/Global-Bailout-Did-The-U.K.-Do-Enough.aspx))


Switzerland - Debt/GDP: 273%
Generally regarded as having one of the world's most stable economies, Switzerland has taken its budget crisis seriously. When the national debt began to escalate in the last decade, the Swiss voted to approve a constitutional amendment forcing the government to balance expenses and revenue during each economic cycle. While annual deficits may still occur, this has instilled discipline in the process and lowered the country's borrowing costs as investors rushed to safety.

This so-called "debt brake" was implemented in response to increasing debt stemming from a slowdown in economic growth. Deficits climbed as spending rose for unemployment benefits and tax revenues declined. While government expenditures were cut across the board, rising revenues have not been sufficient to pay down the incurred debt.


Portugal - Debt/GDP: 228%
With last year's deficit coming in at 9.4% of GDP, the Portuguese government has instituted a growth and austerity program with the objective of reducing that number to 2.8% by 2013. These measures have sparked strikes in the public sector including postal and transportation services. Those events have been further propelled by unemployment above 10%, the worst in 40 years.

The root problem has been low productivity and virtually no economic growth in the past few years. Portugal ranks last in GDP growth among countries that adopted the euro as a common currency. Demand for goods and services has stalled, along with innovation and business momentum. In addition, Portugal's exports have been undercut by cheap labor in countries such as China. (For related reading, see The Economics Of Labor Mobility (http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/labor-mobility.asp).)


Austria - Debt/GDP: 214%The recession and government assistance to banks have contributed to the budget crisis in Austria. The finance minister has rejected the notion of higher taxes in favor of administrative reforms to cut spending. He has predicted that the annual deficit would grow from 3.5% to 4.7% of GDP between 2010 and 2012 before starting to decline. That peak would be the third-highest since 1976 when such data were first recorded.

Rising unemployment has resulted in increased expenditures for unemployment compensation and other government benefits. In addition to the reduced payrolls, tax reforms have driven down overall tax revenues.


The Bottom Line
While the U.S. and Canada have large economies, their respective debt-to-GDP ratios are 93% and 62%. The U.S. gets most of the attention because of the size of the numbers that comprise the ratio - $13.5 trillion debt (June 2009) and $14.4 trillion GDP (2009 estimate). (Learn more in 6 Things You Didn't Know About The U.S. Budget Deficit (http://financialedge.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0210/6-Things-You-Didnt-Know-About-The-U.S.-Budget-Deficit.aspx).)

By comparison, China and India have ratios of 7% and 20% respectively. Their economic growth rates have also exceeded the western nations over the past few years, thereby keeping their debt ratios relatively low. If the western nations don't implement policies to reduce their debts, they run the risk of jeopardizing future economic growth and prosperity.

The Lawspeaker
08-26-2010, 08:42 PM
I am not sure about you people but I am used to my country having a sound budget and a hard currency. It just took the bastards some 10 years to nick us blind ! I am ready for a revolution - I want those responsible for this arrested, all their posessions confisquated and then shot without a trial!

Treffie
08-26-2010, 10:09 PM
I am not sure about you people but I am used to my country having a sound budget and a hard currency. It just took the bastards some 10 years to nick us blind ! I am ready for a revolution - I want those responsible for this arrested, all their posessions confisquated and then shot without a trial!


What we want and what we get are totally different things - unfortunately.

Off with their heads, I say :thumbs up

Äike
08-27-2010, 08:21 AM
Ireland 997% O_O

How is that even possible? The debt of Estonia is about 7%.

Basil
08-27-2010, 09:34 AM
Luxembourg - 3854% of GDP and 4 mln dollars per capita.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

The Estonian external debt is 118 %, btw. Don't confuse external debt with public debt which is indeed 7%. The external and public debt-to-GDP ratios of Russia are 30 and 6 % respectively.

Äike
08-27-2010, 10:51 AM
Luxembourg - 3854% of GDP and 4 mln dollars per capita.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

The Estonian external debt is 118 %, btw. Don't confuse external debt with public debt which is indeed 7%. The external and public debt-to-GDP ratios of Russia are 30 and 6 % respectively.

Ok...

Anyway, Estonia and Russia both have one of the smallest public debts(Estonia has the smallest public debt in the EU) in the world. Russia has plentiful natural resources, thus it's nothing spectacular.

But for Estonia, it is spectacular.

Oinakos Growion
08-27-2010, 11:08 AM
Ireland 997% O_O
Because the Irish government are businessmen, not politicians ;)
After all a country cannot be run like a private company.

By the way, when mentioning Portugal everybody seems to forget that there's some long-term strategies in the country that will reduce the public expense quite a bit in the future. For example, it is expected that the country will be energetically self-sufficient in around 10 years, where a great deal of the energy sources will be renewable sources, etc. If the country can get by until all this stuff really starts working that could make a huge difference. Some private industries are in fact positioning themselves for this future scenario in a very intelligent way and key alliances are being formed now, very discreetly.
Plus, there's "floating" money (black market) which makes the actual standard of living a bit better than official statistics may reflect. Then again, let's see if the country can get by through this current chaos...

Phil75231
08-27-2010, 11:38 AM
And, according to US Vice-President Joe Biden, all the Republicans offered so far amounts to "more tax cuts for the rich" while criticizing every stimulus plan out there.

Sorry, rich people. Your party's over! Deal With It! You're gonna have to fork over your share now (not that you actually need all of it to live on, or even invest in your business).

Breedingvariety
12-25-2010, 11:25 AM
Trade balance and to a lesser extent account balance show whether countries live better or worse in comparison to situation of removed imbalances, IMO.

I haven't found trade balance list. But here's a list of sovereign states by current account balance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_current_account_balanc e

Turkophagos
12-25-2010, 08:14 PM
It would be more interesting to know to whom these countries owe the money.

Vasconcelos
12-25-2010, 08:22 PM
External Debt (Public + Private)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Debt.PNG




Foreign Currency reserves + Gold - External Debt =

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Country_foreign_exchange_reserves_minus_external_d ebt.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

SwordoftheVistula
12-27-2010, 08:46 AM
Is this gross or net? I have a hard time believing that China is a net debtor (owes more to foreign countries than is owed to it), so this must be gross debt, without taking into account how much money is owed in return. You'd have to see the net debt (debt owed to other countries minus debt other countries owe in return) for a better comparison. Also, does this take into account projected retirement and elder care liabilities for countries with a pension/social security or other 'insurance' program?


And, according to US Vice-President Joe Biden

Hardly a reliable source


For example, it is expected that the country will be energetically self-sufficient in around 10 years, where a great deal of the energy sources will be renewable sources, etc.

Really? Unless they have a massive nuclear power plant building operation going on, I think this is BS claims by politicians.

How realistic is it to expect that in 10 years, a European nation will be powered solely by windmills and solar panels? Even if they do achieve this, how much more debt will they have to incur to do this? These things are all extremely costly to produce, especially compared to the electrical output they generate, and unless Portugal has a secret way to develop a truly massive high-tech manufacturing capability overnight, much of this will have to be imported from other countries such as China and Germany. I'm not picking on Portugal here, politicians make similar bogus claims in this country, though not to the level of claiming the entire country will be powered by these gadgets.

Foxy
12-27-2010, 09:03 AM
External Debt (Public + Private)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Debt.PNG



In the case of Italy we have a BIG public debt but our private debt is one of the lowest in Europe. Indeed Italy has got a strong welfare and a lot of burocracy, that needs many public buildings and stuffs paid by the State.
That's why Berlusconi is trying to privatize some structures, in particular schools. I'd reduce part of the costs to mantain the public building insalling solar panels to the public buildings (in Italy there is very often sun), so that they could produce energy autonomously. Unlucky no one will hear me :(

Loki
12-27-2010, 09:04 AM
I wonder what London's economy would be like without Asian cash. I was in Oxford Street yrsterday with the Boxing Day sales. It looked like 80% of the shoppers were Chinese/Japanese/Korean.

SwordoftheVistula
12-27-2010, 10:29 AM
I wonder what London's economy would be like without Asian cash. I was in Oxford Street yrsterday with the Boxing Day sales. It looked like 80% of the shoppers were Chinese/Japanese/Korean.

Are those tourists or 'British' Chinese/Japanese/Koreans?

It could be that your Boxing Day sales have followed the pattern I described in the thread about our Black Friday Sales, with immigrants taking over the activity (especially in larger cities) and whites doing internet shopping instead.

Loki
12-27-2010, 10:34 AM
Are those tourists or 'British' Chinese/Japanese/Koreans?

It could be that your Boxing Day sales have followed the pattern I described in the thread about our Black Friday Sales, with immigrants taking over the activity (especially in larger cities) and whites doing internet shopping instead.

Tourists, it seemed. And yes you're right. British people don't shop in Oxford Street, that's a tourist thing. But it does rake in millions of pounds, since the flagship stores are there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12080161

Vasconcelos
12-27-2010, 12:51 PM
Really? Unless they have a massive nuclear power plant building operation going on, I think this is BS claims by politicians.

How realistic is it to expect that in 10 years, a European nation will be powered solely by windmills and solar panels? Even if they do achieve this, how much more debt will they have to incur to do this? These things are all extremely costly to produce, especially compared to the electrical output they generate, and unless Portugal has a secret way to develop a truly massive high-tech manufacturing capability overnight, much of this will have to be imported from other countries such as China and Germany. I'm not picking on Portugal here, politicians make similar bogus claims in this country, though not to the level of claiming the entire country will be powered by these gadgets.

In 10 years it might be BS, there is still much debate as to the reliability of the clean energies project, many claming that it's too expensive and that we'd be better off with nuclear power plants since we have uranium mines in north (Beira Alta region).
Remember it's just not solar and wind power, you're neglecting one of the most reliable of the "clean" energies, water.


Renewable energy in Portugal was the source for 45% of the country's electricity generation in 2010 - an increase of 28% in 5 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Portugal

SwordoftheVistula
12-28-2010, 02:02 AM
Remember it's just not solar and wind power, you're neglecting one of the most reliable of the "clean" energies, water.

Oh, that makes sense. Water isn't considered a 'clean'/'renewable' energy source here because environmentalists claim that it 'harms fish and the ecosystem'

Breedingvariety
01-09-2011, 11:29 AM
If a country has big external debt, that doesn't mean it is worse off then a country that has no external debt. Even though the country is indebted to other countries, it is likely other countries are indebted to the country as well.

Countries indebtedness just show its dependence on financial institutions for their economy and not the level of countries prosperity or lack there of. Most of the Western World is very indebted, yet it is the most prosperous economy. Countries indebtedness is mostly internal.

Trade balance show who produce more than they consume and who consume more than they produce. By removal of trade imbalances the reverse would be true in comparison to now.

Difference between account and trade balances of a country signifies how much they can consume other countries production because of ownership of foreign producers or have to produce for foreign owners, IMO.

China & Germany seem to be big producers and USA seems to be big consumer of the world.

CelticTemplar
01-27-2011, 12:28 AM
Because the Irish government are businessmen, not politicians ;)
After all a country cannot be run like a private company.

By the way, when mentioning Portugal everybody seems to forget that there's some long-term strategies in the country that will reduce the public expense quite a bit in the future. For example, it is expected that the country will be energetically self-sufficient in around 10 years, where a great deal of the energy sources will be renewable sources, etc. If the country can get by until all this stuff really starts working that could make a huge difference. Some private industries are in fact positioning themselves for this future scenario in a very intelligent way and key alliances are being formed now, very discreetly.
Plus, there's "floating" money (black market) which makes the actual standard of living a bit better than official statistics may reflect. Then again, let's see if the country can get by through this current chaos...

Really? Could you give me a link or something to where you found this information I would like to read more. And I am sure that my grandparents back in the Homeland would be relived to hear that there is gong to be some sort of pay off in the future.