Varg Vikernes - Paganism

[Psychonaut]

Here are parts I-IV of Varg's essays on Paganism:

I. The Ancient Religion
II. The Holy Grail
III. The One Ring
IV. Ultima Thule

[Jägerstaffel]

If nothing else, Varg provokes thought.

Quite an individual.

[Laudanum]

Vikernes is a true genius. I have read all of his essays and some of his books. He's a really good writer, and his music is great too.

[Jamt]

Folkstorm.

Why do you clame that of a man who burnd down a Viking Age Stav Kirka on a forum with plenty of Scandinavians? Dont you think there are better places for that stuff than The Apricity Forum?

[Laudanum]

He burnt down a christian church. I totally support his actions.

[The Lawspeaker]

He burnt down a christian church. I totally support his actions.
My God... my boy- what are you saying here ehh ? He burned down a stavkirke ! A piece of heritage that is irreplaceable. Those stave churches date back to the late Viking Age...:eek:

Have you ever seen one ? I am fortunate enough that I will this summer. I'll be in Bergen and I visit the church that he burned down. It was restored to a bit of it's former glory.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Fantoft_stave_church%2C_Bergen.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Fantoft.2.jpg

http://www.tunliweb.no/Bilder_SM/_album_Bergen/f4a_1024pixel.jpg

http://www.photosight.org/up/2007/10/21/69216.jpg

http://image07.webshots.com/7/3/96/93/100539693zIDznq_fs.jpg

A detail taken from some other stave church:

http://www.visitnorway.com/ImageVault/Images/conversionFormat_12/id_2470/ImageVaultHandler.aspx

Does this look Christian to you ?

[Brännvin]

He burnt down a christian church. I totally support his actions.

Pure vandalism, without forgetting to mention that he killed an another man..

[Atlas]

It was a woman if I recall correctly.

Go introduce yourself, lad, before starting flaming...

[The Lawspeaker]

It was a woman if I recall correctly.
No he murdered a bloke. From some other band. Who bothers anyways ?!
It's the stavkirke they should have hanged him for !

[Laudanum]

Pure vandalism, without forgetting to mention that he killed an another man..

Vikernes killed a communist pervert who wanted to kill him! Euronymous was a sick guy, so vikernes killed him, before euronymous would kill him.

The chruch might be very old, but it IS a christian church. It was build by christians.

[The Lawspeaker]

The chruch might be very old, but it IS a christian church. It was build by christians. Seriously. Look beyond that. Don't you even value the heritage of your own ancestors ? (you wrote in your profile that you have a Norwegian heritage) What are you doing on this forum !?

Even I was smarter on that age !:mad:

[Laudanum]

Seriously. Look beyond that. Don't you even value the heritage of your own ancestors ? (you wrote in your profile that you have a Norwegian heritage) What are you doing on this forum !?

Even I was smarter on that age !:mad:

What i am trying to say, is that i would love to see every trace of jewish-christianity erased. Those churches were built on heathen temples. Of course i value the herritage of my ancestors. Actually, THAT is the reason i believe churches, no matter how old, do not belong in europe. I want the ancient relegion to return.

[Freomæg]

Whilst that specific Church is beautiful - and therefore, there are more appropriate targets - it is still a Church, a Church which represents an ideology which itself destroyed most of Pagan Europe's monuments.

I support Vikernes in his willingness to burn Churches, but agree that he should have chosen a more modern one (though he probably chose it because, unless modern Churches, it would definitely burn).

[The Lawspeaker]

What i am trying to say, is that i would love to see every trace of jewish-christianity erased. Those churches were built on heathen temples. Of course i value the herritage of my ancestors. Actually, THAT is the reason i believe churches, no matter how old, do not belong in europe. I want the ancient relegion to return.
Late it make it very clear to you that Christianity and the churches are two different things. A church is art- is irreplaceable.
The Church (the institution) is a problem but apart from a small group of Heathenism it is perhaps the only real spiritual protection that exists for the preservation of Europe. And as such I don't mind their existence. The ancient religion will not come back because we burn churches. You are destroying European thinking and heritage.

And anyone who advocates the destruction of works of art our ancestors toiled on is no better then the Taliban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan)and IMHO does not belong on this forum AT ALL. (I am not sure what the Admin says about this).

[Brännvin]

Vikernes killed a communist pervert who wanted to kill him! Euronymous was a sick guy, so vikernes killed him, before euronymous would kill him.

Well, I'm not clear on this..



The chruch might be very old, but it IS a christian church. It was build by christians.

It was constructed nearly 1000 years ago, transition period between the chistianization and the indigenous Scandinavian Paganism, there is very little that churches still left.

Interestingly, there are pagan symbols all over the supposedly Christian building. You can see the dragon heads in the photos posted by Lawspeaker. Also note the saint’s head on an animals body carved into the church as well as the character Fafnir carved, quite surprising. Don't you think?

[Laudanum]

And anyone who advocates the destruction of works of art our ancestors toiled on is no better then the Taliban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan)and IMHO does not belong on this forum AT ALL. (I am not sure what the Admin says about this).

So, if i do not agree with what you think, i don't belong on this forum?

I do not respect christians, even if they were european, even if the church was very old. The christians destroyed most of our temples, so why not burn their churches? They don't belong here anyway. You might say it's better to talk with them, but as we know, Christianity has been here for far too long, and in my opinion the time to talk is over.

This is MY opinion.

[Kempenzoon]

If you think you can wipe out christianity and make heathenism fill the void ... think again. For every church you burn a mosque is built, not a heathen temple. I agree entirely with Lawspeaker on the issue of these churches. They're European heritage. Not just christian heritage.

Anyway, on the topic of Varg specifically, I agree that the murder of Euronymous was hardly anything to be concerned about. Euronymous was at the very least a con artist and a cannibal. There are claims he was a commie, a queer, a pedophile and a whole slew of other things. But other than con artist and cannibal none of them are proven. Still, it's enough to make me not care for his death.

[Laudanum]

If you think you can wipe out christianity and make heathenism fill the void ... think again. For every church you burn a mosque is built, not a heathen temple. I agree entirely with Lawspeaker on the issue of these churches. They're European heritage. Not just christian heritage.

Christian churches are not european herritage, because christianity is not european. The burning of a church, as Varg did it, was symbolic. Of course the curch will be rebuilt, or another kind of church/mosque will be put there, but it shows, that we, as europeans, do not want christianity in our lands. I know the church was very old, from the viking age, but it's a christian church, so that's why i do not see it as part of our herritage.

[The Lawspeaker]

So you would be in favor of the destruction of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Retable_de_l%27Agneau_mystique.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Interieur_Domkerk.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Domtower_Utrecht.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Hieronymus_Bosch_-_The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights_-_Hell.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Fl%C3%BCgelretabel_mit_Anna_Selbdritt_1512.jpg

Not to mention countless products from monasteries like traditional medicine, beers, cheeses, candles etc etc etc. Just because it is Christian. And what exactly will replace this iconoclasm (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeldenstorm) ?

[Laudanum]

Not too mention countless products from monasteries like traditional medicine, beers, cheeses, candles etc etc etc. Just because it is Christian.

I do not believe candles have a big impact on our culture, do they?

[The Lawspeaker]

"sighs"

[Laudanum]

"sighs"

Instead of ''Sighs'' you could also give me a normal answer.

[The Lawspeaker]

"sighs again" You clearly haven't looked at the post- you clearly don't even read. Let me rephrase it for you in our own language (foreigners please forgive me).

Je wilt de Europese cultuur vernietigen - en het vervangen voor niets en dat om een domme simpele reden: HAAT. Ik denk dat je als 14 jarige niet weet waar je over praat. Omdat ik zelf Nederlands ben bied ik je aan eens een keer mee te nemen naar de Dom of naar andere Middeleeuwse kunstvoorwerpen.

Gewoon om je kennis te laten maken met de invloed die ook de Christelijke middeleeuwen op ons land en zijn cultuur heeft. Omdat ik zelf een geschiedenisliefhebber ben ik doe ik dat free of charge.

Anders ben ik best voor je bereid een beetje rond te kijken naar een goede rondleiding. Er zijn er aardig wat in Nederland- of bezoek anders de abdij Achelse Kluis net over de grens in België- of loop de Selexyz boekhandel in Maastricht eens binnen: dan zie je wat er met een kerkgebouw kan gebeuren als het instituut er uit weg is.

[Atlas]

:fencing:

[Laudanum]

"sighs again" You clearly haven't looked at the post- you clearly don't even read. Let me rephrase it for you in our own language (foreigners please forgive me).

Je wilt de Europese cultuur vernietigen - en het vervangen voor niets en dat uit een enkele reden: HAAT. Ik denk dat je als 14 jarige niet weet waar je over praat. Omdat ik zelf Nederlands ben bied ik je aan eens een keer mee te nemen naar de Dom of naar andere Middeleeuwse kunstvoorwerpen.

Gewoon om je kennis te laten maken met de invloed die ook de Christelijke middeleeuwen op ons land en zijn cultuur heeft. Omdat ik zelf een geschiedenisfan ben ik doe ik dat free of charge.

Ik geef maar antwoord in engels, anders kan niemand de discussie volgen:

I do not want to destroy the european culture, no, of course not. If i wanted to do that, i would have become a muslim or someting else. I know i'm young, but i have thought about it a lot. And yes, i hate everything that has ruined the original european culture. (ik heb de dom enz. al gezien). My point is just, i do not want christianity here, so i do not get pissed at Varg when he burns down a church. I know christianity has had much influence on our modern culture, but a lot of it was negative. What i want, is the ancient culture to return. I know it will probably never happen, but i don't get mad when people destroy christian churches.

[The Lawspeaker]

The problem is then the original culture is no longer existent. Frankly we know very little about it and what we know is basically what Roman and Frankish conquerors and administrators and Christian missionaries wrote about it. And apart from that it are the findings and the guesswork of archaeologists. So that's why I say that you would create a void. We know little about the original culture- at least not enough to create a decent society but it would be also fair enough to state that during the Middle Ages the pagan world lived on in Christian Europe- hidden in the new Christian culture (I am sure that Christians here can show you some interesting details).

Christianity as an institution does not have my love either, even though I was raised a catholic, it is still that uncomfortable live jacket that prevents us from drowning in Islam.
Varg Vikernes destroyed a precious work of art that the ancestors of the present day Norwegians toiled on - and protected and used for generations.
You cannot destroy something and create a void. Because basically that is what Islam is doing.

On the ashes of each destroyed Church THIS will be build:

http://www.students.let.uu.nl/3273989/Images/moskee.JPG

Not heathenism. For each destroyed incunabulum or bible this will be put into place:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Quran_cover.jpg

Not some ancient Law.

For each work of art destroyed and Christian expelled or murdered- this will take it's place:

http://myminddroppings.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/burqa1.jpg

And when the chimes of our churches stop ringing.. this will be the sound that takes over:

yJ5eC2Xh5Og

And if our laws- some based on Christianity as a concept give way for your ideas Sharia will take over.

http://isaacschrodinger.typepad.com/isaacschrodinger/images/iran_1.jpg

[Loddfafner]

Whatever one might think of Christianity, Medieval church architecture is about as European as it gets. The stave churches of Norway are our most direct link to the old heathen temples. Gothic and Romanesque churches tapped into currents much deeper than Middle Eastern monotheism.

[~°2012°~]

CZzh7hj9rbQ

The church in vaaler, Norway, was set on fire friday 29 may.The whole building went down in less than 4 hour. Police fears this incident will start another wave of church burnings in Norway.

Quote from the comment section:




A (cantlocateusaonmap): The only thing that will replace those churches burned down in Norway is more Muslim Mosks, so those churchburners are only doing Islam a favour

B: LOL no! church burning is a favor to odhinn norway is/was under leadership by odhinn we accept muslims but they are guests in the country!

A: Leadership by Óðin? Scandinavians don't even recognize the spirit of their old gods anymore and most modern morons who claim they are "pagan" are ego-maniacs full of shit, you think we are going to see pagan temples replace those churches? You are only helping those who's main goal is to wipe out European culture, traditions and ethnicity.

Well I'm no fan of Judeo-Christianity but I have to agree with cantlocateusaonmap on this one. People must realize the critical state of our homelands. Burning churches at this point is completely useless and only adds to the total destruction of European culture. Those "militant pagan extremists" don't realize that they soon will be beheaded themselves alongside Christians, by another foreign enemy, enemy that took control because they were too busy demonizing and attacking the past instead of focusing on how to survive the future:

6-3X5hIFXYU

[Thorum]

Dr. Who, I think you summed it up best and most accurately!!

[Freomæg]

The Church (the institution) is a problem but apart from a small group of Heathenism it is perhaps the only real spiritual protection that exists for the preservation of Europe. And as such I don't mind their existence.
I agree with you on this point Lawspeaker, but it's important to note that back in the early 90s, when the Church-burnings happened, Islam was not acknowledged as a threat and was not predicted to be a significant threat like it is now.

My feeling is this (to paraphrase an old Saudi ideology):
Me against the Church, me and the Church against the Mosque.

I think that if you were to ask Vikernes now what he would like to raze to the ground, he'd say 'a mosque', but 15 years ago Norway and the world were a different place.

I stand with Christianity against Islam.

[Psychonaut]

Guys, come on. In these (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2894) two (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4660) threads, we already have fourteen pages of "discussion" on Varg's church burning activities. Enough is enough. Certain parties will not agree with other parties, and there's no convincing one "side" to change to the other.

Also please look to the top of your screen. This is Literature & Translations (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95) section. This thread hosts some of Varg's writings. If you'd like to comment about the writings posted here, please do.

[HawkR]

I've read Vargsmål by Varg. And it was deffinetively the most interesting "book" in years. Now, he do write some stuff I don't agree with, and something do even remind me about Islam, a little example: He says that ...it's not unatural for a man to have many womans, considering the fact that most men have a much higher sexual drive than women. Now, I agree that it might not be that unatural but I would NEVER have more than one woman. I do mean that there's that "special one" for everyone, in some way at least. I also noticed I need to read it again so I can say more about it:)

[Brännvin]

I've read Vargsmål by Varg. And it was deffinetively the most interesting "book" in years. Now, he do write some stuff I don't agree with, and something do even remind me about Islam, a little example: He says that ...it's not unatural for a man to have many womans, considering the fact that most men have a much higher sexual drive than women. Now, I agree that it might not be that unatural but I would NEVER have more than one woman. I do mean that there's that "special one" for everyone, in some way at least. I also noticed I need to read it again so I can say more about it:)

Maybe he is an undercover muslim, he lived during one year in the Iraq:naughty:

I honestly do not understand why he is taken so seriously, I've read in anywhere all their works are grotesque personal distortions of old Scandinavian paganism and mythology..

[Útrám]

He's like the Al-Qaeda of paganism, the instant you resort to violence you lose the argument. This man and especially what he did disgraced heathery and it's over-rated. Don't get me wrong he makes a good point every now and then but being an extreme agitator is just pure fail.

[lei.talk]

I've read Vargsmål (http://www.smokepit.net/~theemperor/viking/vargsmal.html) by Varg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varg_Vikernes)...a little example: He says that

...it's not unatural for a man to have many womans,
considering the fact that most men have a much higher sexual drive than women.women across the inter-net chuckled
at the callowness of that characterisation.

he apparently did not understand
that girls are not dis-interesting in sex -
they were dis-interested in sex with him.

most boys do have difficulty with that concept.

be more of a man
and she will be more of a woman.

women would be thrilled to find a man
with whom they could share a fulfilling life, but,
usually settle for a complementary bundle of neuroses
(in the shape of a man) -
untill that situation becomes intolerable.

[Aemma]

So, if i do not agree with what you think, i don't belong on this forum?

I do not respect christians, even if they were european, even if the church was very old. The christians destroyed most of our temples, so why not burn their churches? They don't belong here anyway. You might say it's better to talk with them, but as we know, Christianity has been here for far too long, and in my opinion the time to talk is over.

This is MY opinion.

I'm a bit late chiming in here but just for the record and that we're all clear, you are very much permitted to disagree with other members Folkstorm. We all are so long as it is done with tact, respect and maturity which you have demonstrated. So no worries. We don't all agree with one another here; if we did it would be an awfully boring place. So it's all good. :)

[James David Caulton]

Whilst I like his music and books I'm not particularly fond of his war mongering attitude For someone who Cares about Ethnic Norwegians he's pretty willing to put them at risk of infighting and division

[Aviator]

Wow. Looks like there were a lot more real Europeans here back in 09.

[Vorpal]

I've read Vargsmål by Varg. And it was deffinetively the most interesting "book" in years. Now, he do write some stuff I don't agree with, and something do even remind me about Islam, a little example: He says that ...it's not unatural for a man to have many womans, considering the fact that most men have a much higher sexual drive than women. Now, I agree that it might not be that unatural but I would NEVER have more than one woman. I do mean that there's that "special one" for everyone, in some way at least. I also noticed I need to read it again so I can say more about it:)

you are right.

[Borna]

Varg Vikerness is an imbecile.

Firstly why didn't he burn Synagogue instead of Church if he is so Anti-Zog and pro-European?

Second, his Music is utter shit. Along with genre he created.

[Vorpal]

Varg Vikerness is an imbecile.

Firstly why didn't he burn Synagogue instead of Church if he is so Anti-Zog and pro-European?

Second, his Music is utter shit. Along with genre he created.

wat
wat
wat
wat

[Peikko]

Wow. Looks like there were a lot more real Europeans here back in 09.
And the topics used to be much better too.

[Aviator]

And the topics used to be much better too.

So it would seem. Maybe it'll go back at some point.

[♥ Lily ♥]

I'd love to read his essays, thanks for posting this.