Northern Ireland Troubles to cost £300m.

[Treffie]

Proposals to deal with the legacy of Northern Ireland's Troubles could cost up to £300m, a report has said.

The plans include a £12,000 payment for families of all those killed.

Unionists and some victims' groups have rejected the proposed payment because it would include republican and loyalist paramilitaries.

Lord Eames, one of the report's authors, said it was time for a "final step out of the conflict by dealing with the legacy of the past".

The 190-page report, which contains more than 30 recommendations, will go to the government for consideration.

The report has been compiled by the Consultative Group on the Past, an independent group set up to deal with the legacy of Northern Ireland's Troubles, during which more than 3,000 people died.

The proposals include a legacy commission which would be led by an international figure.

This commission would take over the work currently carried out by the police ombudsman, which investigates complaints against the police, and the Historical Enquiries Team, a specialist police unit set up to investigate unsolved killings throughout the Troubles.

Speaking at the news conference, Lord Eames, a former Church of Ireland Primate, said their package offered different options.

"We know that one size does not fit all and we are not imposing a one size fits all approach," he said.

"But we are recommending... one package that offers many different options for individuals and communities."

Lord Eames explains the payments system
Denis Bradley, who chaired the group with Lord Eames, said the report can address "the calls for justice, the pleas for truth".

"We have heard your pleas and we say you are right," he said.

"And we have proposed the best way that we can construct to deliver justice and truth so that you too can move on."

Protesters temporarily disrupted the launch, including former unionist politician Cedric Wilson and Willie Frazer from victim's group Fair.

One of the main critics of the plan to pay victims' families was Northern Ireland's First Minister, the DUP leader Peter Robinson.

REPORT FINDINGS

He told Secretary of State Shaun Woodward on Tuesday that the suggestion had "irreparably damaged" the group's report.

On Wednesday Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he acknowledged that the proposal to include the families of dead paramilitaries in the payments was controversial.

Challenged by DUP MP Nigel Dodds at Prime Minister's Questions, Mr Brown said the government would consider the report with "great care" before making its response.

"I understand why one of the recommendations has provoked such controversy in Northern Ireland," he said.

"I will never forget the innocent victims in Northern Ireland."

The recommendations include:

• An independent Legacy Commission to last five years with a £100m bursary to tackle the tasks of securing reconciliation, justice and information recovery

• Reconciliation Forum to help the Legacy Commission and the existing Commission for Victims and Survivors for Northern Ireland (CVSNI)


• The nearest relative of each person who died in the conflict should receive a £12,000 "recognition payment"


• A new Review and Investigation Unit to replace the police Historical Enquiries Team and the Police Ombudsman's unit dealing with historical cases


• No new public inquiries


• The Group did not propose an amnesty for crimes linked to the conflict, but recommended the Legacy Commission should make proposals on how a line might be drawn


• An annual Day of Reflection and Reconciliation and a shared memorial to the conflict

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7855035.stm

[Oisín]

No new public inquiries
That's the reason they're offering 12 grand to the relatives of everyone who died, they're trying to buy them off so they wont have to hold any more inquiries into RUC and British army collusion with loyalist paramilitaries and the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. If the truth was to come out it would be very, very embarrassing for the British government for all their dirty tricks to be exposed to the world.

[Fortis in Arduis]

That's the reason they're offering 12 grand to the relatives of everyone who died, they're trying to buy them off so they wont have to hold any more inquiries into RUC and British army collusion with loyalist paramilitaries and the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. If the truth was to come out it would be very, very embarrassing for the British government for all their dirty tricks to be exposed to the world.

I find that I dislike the British government, but not so much the British Army and least of all the loyalist paramilitaries.

[stormlord]

snore..compare the restraint with which the British acted in Northern Ireland (a place in which the democratic majority wanted them there-dispute that fact) to Chechnya or to Israel, they get away with levelling capital cities with artillery, using chemical weapons, using whole armour divisions, and carpet bombing. The British forces made some serious mistakes, and soldiers fighting a war got out of hand on occasion, shock! The IRA was just as bad. Name me another sustained counter insurgency where any army has behaved any better.

[Osweo]

I'm a little puzzled at the sub-forum choice here. Eire and the tricolour are politically associated with the Republic of Ireland, not the Six Counties of Northern Ireland. Perhaps the section could be renamed Ireland, or Eire and Northern Ireland? Eire is the Irish word for Ireland, sure, but not every ethnic group in Ireland speak Irish, or are of Gaelic stock.

[Loki]

I'm a little puzzled at the sub-forum choice here. Eire and the tricolour are politically associated with the Republic of Ireland, not the Six Counties of Northern Ireland. Perhaps the section could be renamed Ireland, or Eire and Northern Ireland? Eire is the Irish word for Ireland, sure, but not every ethnic group in Ireland speak Irish, or are of Gaelic stock.

I don't see the need to be excessively PC in this regard. As you said, Eire is the Irish word for Ireland, and that is good enough for me. Whether there are non-Irish residents in Ireland is irrelevant.

The United Kingdom is a political construct, hence we have subfora for England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ... in light of the more nationalistic perspective.

I guess we could make another subforum for Northern Ireland, but I haven't seen any demand for it yet, and with the population size I doubt we'll have a demand any time soon.

[Osweo]

I don't see the need to be excessively PC in this regard.
I don't see what's PC about it! The English forum isn't called 'Prydain'. :p And the Northern Irish people have some of the worst PR on Earth, with PCism usually working in their disfavour. They've tangled themselves up with some absurdities in their time, but at the bottom of it all, they're a nation as much as any other. The only difference with the English of Prydain is one of time, so far as I can see.

As you said, Eire is the Irish word for Ireland, and that is good enough for me. Whether there are non-Irish residents in Ireland is irrelevant.
I wouldn't call the people in question 'non-Irish' either. And before anyone tries, you can't compare this with 'British Blacks' and the like, as the ethnic group involved do have a rather delineated geographical dispersal, didn't come as the coolies of an imperial class, and are only from 'next door' anyway, now with whole swathes of this Eire theirs alone. The lands they farm have not known a farmer to call them 'Eire' for many a long year. Without getting too absurdly mystical and sentimental about it, the very spirits of the land must be linked with them now, in at least some parts of Northern Ireland.

The United Kingdom is a political construct, hence we have subfora for England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ... in light of the more nationalistic perspective.
Is not Ireland to some extent politically constructed? Is not the vision of a solely Gaelic Ireland from time immemorial rather an affront to the non Goidelic Celts who once lived there, and their non-Celtic predecessors? I know I'm guilty of the same sin here as I've recently condemned in others, about excessive ancestralism or whatever you want to call it, but a homogenous Ireland is more of a myth than most people realise.

I guess we could make another subforum for Northern Ireland, but I haven't seen any demand for it yet, and with the population size I doubt we'll have a demand any time soon.
I'm not demanding action, just discussing something that will doubtless pop up sooner or later.

[Brynhild]

I believe the thread to be about the past troubles of Northern Ireland and how the government are attempting to put things right in order to move on.

If I were the people who lost their families - no matter which side - I wouldn't simply accept financial payment, because I see it as blood money by the government in their attempts to sweep the matter under the carpet.

Osiwu, relax! Where else could you put such a thread since the UK are represented by their own nations on this forum. Lift off your Skadi head for a while and just enjoy the change of scenery. :tongue

[Osweo]

I believe the thread to be about the past troubles of Northern Ireland and how the government are attempting to put things right in order to move on.
By stirring up an idiotic hornets' nest! And what a time to do it! A third of a million quid that didn't really need spending, in the middle of an economic crisis?!? Makes you wonder if these people have a brain in their head at all! And this is MY money that is going to some murderer's family too! :rolleyes2:

If I were the people who lost their families - no matter which side - I wouldn't simply accept financial payment,
There is an even more moral stance, and that's to take the 'simply' out of your above statement. :wink:D

Osiwu, relax! Where else could you put such a thread since the UK are represented by their own nations on this forum. Lift off your Skadi head for a while and just enjoy the change of scenery. :tongue
Have a little compassion, you're talking to a man who <sob> may never <wah!> infract anybody ever again, much less move a thread to a more appropriate subsection... :eek::p
I can't resist though; Not all UK nations are represented, as the one that lives in Ireland is left out! :thumb001:

[British and Proud]

I'm a little puzzled at the sub-forum choice here. Eire and the tricolour are politically associated with the Republic of Ireland, not the Six Counties of Northern Ireland. Perhaps the section could be renamed Ireland, or Eire and Northern Ireland? Eire is the Irish word for Ireland, sure, but not every ethnic group in Ireland speak Irish, or are of Gaelic stock.

Well said! The Northern Irish people are not represented here at all. May I suggest using the flag of St. Patrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick's_Flag)?

For those who wish to know a little more about Unionism and Ireland, I have written a blog post about Sir Edward Carson (http://unrepentantbritishnationalist.blogspot.com/2009/01/spirit-of-carson_5798.html).

[Cenél nEógain]

snore..compare the restraint with which the British acted in Northern Ireland (a place in which the democratic majority wanted them there-dispute that fact) to Chechnya or to Israel, they get away with levelling capital cities with artillery, using chemical weapons, using whole armour divisions, and carpet bombing. The British forces made some serious mistakes, and soldiers fighting a war got out of hand on occasion, shock! The IRA was just as bad. Name me another sustained counter insurgency where any army has behaved any better.

The british would've carried out said options above, if they could've gotten away with it. The problem is turning Ulster into Gaza attracts the attention of the USA, where it should be reminded there are more Irish than in Ireland itself, many with significant seats. This sort of thing may fly in some Chechen slum, but not in Western Europe.

Not to mention the support it would've given the PIRA. People in the free-state would've called to arms. Gaddaffi would've re-commenced shipments. Irish-Americans would've doubled support. Heavy equipment deployed in South Armagh would've created a deathtrap for british soldiers, the deathcount would've skyrocketed. The PIRA was perfectly equipped to deal with ground equipment, heavy or not.

:coffee: