Greek DNA: European or MENA?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Is the Greek DNA, before all the recorded invasions and migrations, European in its original form? I think there's plenty of things that raise doubt about the Greek DNA and whether it slanted toward Europe or MENA. I probably view them as something in-between Asia and Europe.

[Danaan]

'MENA' DNA is part 'European', first of all.

Before the migrations the Greeks were less northern shifting most likely. And that's true about the Italians too.

There's no such thing as 'European' DNA in reality.

[brennus dux gallorum]

the following maps may answer your question

MENA admixture (10-15%)
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Southwest-Asian-admixture.gif

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Gedrosian-admixture.gif

European adxmiture (85-90%)

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Mediterranean-admixture.gif

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Caucasian-admixture.gif

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/East-European-admixture.gif

[poiuytrewq0987]

There's no such thing as 'European' DNA in reality.

What I define as European DNA is DNA that is not native to Africa, Asia or elsewhere. The Greeks "borrowed" their alphabet from the Levantines, who could say that the borrowing wasn't the result of a genetic continuity?

[catgeorge]

Not this again

Northern Greeks (Thrace & Macedonia) (296 samples)
I : 18.6
R1a : 19.2
R1b : 17.2
E1b : 20.6
G2 : 4.7
J2 : 11.9
J1 : 3.4
LT : 2.7
* : 0.7

===========================

Central Greeks (Epirus & Thessaly) (127 samples)
I : 14.6
R1a : 16.8
R1b : 15.2
E1b : 25.5
G2 : 6.3
J2 : 11.1
J1 : 3.9
LT : 3.9
* : 1.6

================================================== =

Southern Greeks (Sterea Hellas & Peloponnese) (264 samples)
I : 12.9
R1a : 14.2
R1b : 23.5
E1b : 21.8
G2 : 3.4
J2 : 15.7
J1 : 2.3
LT : 3.8
* : 1.5

==============================================

Eastern Greeks (Aegean islands & Ionia) (158 samples)
I : 11.4
R1a : 7.6
R1b : 24.8
E1b : 20.3
G2 : 8.2
J2 : 17.6
J1 : 5.1
LT : 3.2
* : 1.9

======================================

Cretan Greeks (Crete) (193 samples)
I : 13.0
R1a : 10.8
R1b : 20.1
E1b : 8.8
G2 : 10.9
J2 : 25.6
J1 : 8.3
LT : 2.6
*: -

==========================================

[Journeyman26]

What I define as European DNA is DNA that is not native to Africa, Asia or elsewhere. The Greeks "borrowed" their alphabet from the Levantines, who could say that the borrowing wasn't the result of a genetic continuity?

That's a massive jump. Phoenician was the lingua franca of the time in the Mediterranean... and the phonetic alphabet has huge advantages over pictographic alphabets that were used up until that point, and in every written language prior to the phonetic. Phonetic language meaning each letter corresponds to a sound, which can be used to build any word. Pictographic languages describe situations where each character represents a word. So, when the Phoenecians would trade with the Greeks, they would spell out Greek words using Phonetic letters. This caught on with the Greeks as it allowed different languages to use the same characters which was a huge jump forward for civilization.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Not this again



Not talking about haplogroups but autosomal DNA, where this thread is located.

[Journeyman26]

Not talking about haplogroups but autosomal DNA, where this thread is located.

Well, when you find this uniquely Greek autosomal DNA let 23andme know.. they have certainly had trouble isolating it.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Well, when you find this uniquely Greek autosomal DNA let 23andme know.. they have certainly had trouble isolating it.

Autosomal means percentages of European, Asian, so forth. More reliable than YDNA which only shows how mixed Europeans are regarding paternal lineage. It's rather common to find Greeks on 23andme with 20-30% MENA.

[catgeorge]

Not talking about haplogroups but autosomal DNA, where this thread is located.

It doesnt take a genius to figure out autosmal based on Y-dna.

[Sikeliot]

European.

There is no persuasive evidence that Greeks, mainlanders at least, would have ever been closer to modern West Asians than they are now.

[Journeyman26]

Autosomal means percentages of European, Asian, so forth. More reliable than YDNA which only shows how mixed Europeans are regarding paternal lineage. It's rather common to find Greeks on 23andme with 20-30% MENA.

Autosomal just means non-sex linked traits actually, so DNA found on the 22 chromosomal pairs that aren't the sex chromosomes. YDNA shows paternal lineage and mtDNA shows maternal lineage are incredibly useful for showing long term population migration patterns as they change very little from generation to generation whereas autosomal genes can change drastically.

[poiuytrewq0987]

European.

There is no persuasive evidence that Greeks, mainlanders at least, would have ever been closer to modern West Asians than they are now.

Well, there is the massive assimilation of Greeks by Turks during the early years of Turkish invasions in Asia Minor. That sapped the Greek population. The loss was made up by assimilating Slavs, other Balkan peoples in the remaining Greek-controlled territories. That probably made them more Europeans as a consequence, but Greeks still have a rather mixed appearance that slant toward MENA than European. If other Balkan peoples have mixed appearances, they still look European than Levantine or North Africa.

[brennus dux gallorum]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:


Autosomal means percentages of European, Asian, so forth. More reliable than YDNA which only shows how mixed Europeans are regarding paternal lineage.

in that case, i have to copy paste my previous post, where you can find the answer to your question


"the following maps may answer your question

MENA admixture (10-15%)
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Southwest-Asian-admixture.gif

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Gedrosian-admixture.gif

European adxmiture (85-90%)

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Mediterranean-admixture.gif

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Caucasian-admixture.gif

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/East-European-admixture.gif"

[Ylla]

I wouldnt say MENA because they have other elements like SSA and 'teal shift'. Maybe mediterranean or neolithic are better terms.

[poiuytrewq0987]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:



in that case, i have to copy paste my previous post, where you can find the answer to your question


"the following maps may answer your question

MENA admixture (10-15%)

European adxmiture (85-90%)


"

Use results from 23andme or AncestryDNA.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Use results from 23andme or AncestryDNA.

in all sources MENA dna is not more than 20-30%

[catgeorge]

Use results from 23andme or AncestryDNA.

These are not hard to find

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal2.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal3.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal4.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal5.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal6.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal7.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal8.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal9.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal10.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal11.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal12.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal13.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal14.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal15.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal16.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal17.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal18.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal19.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekautosmal20.jpg

[Faklon]

Woah, a thread by our schizophrenic Macebulgarian where the posters compete with Sikeliot on Sikeliotism.

Admixture can be measured by IBD blocks, if the admixture predates the establishment of a geographical continent inside the geographical continent then it characterizes the geographical continent without necessarily be WASP-like.

Studies on the topic,

http://oi68.tinypic.com/rvkspc.jpg


http://dienekes.blogspot.gr/2015/09/recent-admixture-in-contemporary-west.html

23&me IBD share(Sikeliot thread, so proceed with caution)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?146213-Greek-IBD-Sharing-on-23andme-Top-5-Countries-of-Ancestry-for-the-Greeks-on-my-list

[Hellenas]

The Greeks "borrowed" their alphabet from the Levantines

Who says? Conventional history made by Anglo-Saxons?

Some evidence that doubt this theory made by westerners:

THE PHOENICIAN ALPHABET IS THE GREEK-PELASGIAN ALPHABET.
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/16/phoenician-alphabet-greek-pelasgian

Greek alphabet was in use at 6000 BC in the Aegean
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/15/greek-alphabet-use-6000-aegean

3,000 BC., Hellenic letters from Milos island.
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/206/000-hellenic-letters-milos-island

[Hellenas]

The loss was made up by assimilating Slavs, other Balkan peoples in the remaining Greek-controlled territories.

The medieval Slav invaders slaughtered by the Byzantine army, the few who survived transferred to Asia Minor, a tiny minority of them only assimilated. The non-Greek Balkan people who hellenized were few.


but Greeks still have a rather mixed appearance that slant toward MENA than European. If other Balkan peoples have mixed appearances, they still look European than Levantine or North Africa.

Nope, Greeks do not look MENA but south-east European, Mediterranean-Balkan in particular.

[Sikeliot]

I think that ancient Greece would have already had a large Steppe component, so I do not think that Greeks would have ever been similar to say, Levantines. Though Neolithic Greeks were in fact similar to Neolithic Anatolians, who were Sardinian-like. The Steppe component would have been added on top of this, plus Bronze Age settlement from the Caucasus.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The medieval Slav invaders slaughtered by the Byzantine army, the few who survived transferred to Asia Minor, a tiny minority of them only assimilated. The non-Greek Balkan people who hellenized were few.

I disagree that only a few Balkan non-Greeks were Hellenized. Many were Hellenized. The Greek nation has assimilated Asia Minor non-Greeks, Levantine non-Greeks, Illyro-Thracian non-Greeks, Slavic non-Greeks, Crimean non-Greeks, and so on. Obviously, not all of them were absorbed right away but over time as they added to the Greek ethnos at various times throughout history. The Greeks, however, still have great Slavic influence and that is what I believe makes them far less East Mediterranean-Levantine.


Nope, Greeks do not look MENA but south-east European, Mediterranean-Balkan in particular.

The Greeks don't really have an uniform appearance, but are wildly diverse. Can find all types of people.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I think that ancient Greece would have already had a large Steppe component, so I do not think that Greeks would have ever been similar to say, Levantines. Though Neolithic Greeks were in fact similar to Neolithic Anatolians, who were Sardinian-like. The Steppe component would have been added on top of this, plus Bronze Age settlement from the Caucasus.

Neolithic Anatolia being Sardinian-like is a possibility. It would offset the impact of assimilating Asia Minor non-Greeks. However, how large was the assimilation, and did it lessen the genetic legacy of assimilating East Anatolian peoples such as Hittites? I highly doubt it. Many additional waves of migrants arrived long after the Sardinian-like population moved to Italy, Sardinia.

[Danishmend]

Neolithic Anatolia being Sardinian-like is a possibility. It would offset the impact of assimilating Asia Minor non-Greeks. However, how large was the assimilation, and did it lessen the genetic legacy of assimilating East Anatolian peoples such as Hittites? I highly doubt it. Many additional waves of migrants arrived long after the Sardinian-like population moved to Italy, Sardinia.

There is a full Anatolian Greek member (from Cappadocia) on anthrogenica, his oracle results:

MDLP k23b

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.19
2 European_Early_Farmers 17.39
3 Near_East 13.63
4 South_Central_Asian 11.23
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 6.68
6 North_African 4.52
7 South_East_Asian 1.02
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.79
9 South_Indian 0.72
10 East_Siberian 0.5
11 Paleo_Siberian 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cretan ( ) 5.93
2 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 5.99
3 Cypriot ( ) 6.49
4 Azov_Greek ( ) 7.15
5 Syrian_Jew ( ) 8.03
6 Greek_Islands ( ) 8.05
7 Greek ( ) 8.41
8 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 8.43
9 Greek_Athens ( ) 9.11
10 Italian_South ( ) 9.46
11 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 9.78
12 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 9.81
13 Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) 10.19
14 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 10.42
15 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 10.53
16 Turk ( ) 10.54
17 Romanian_Jew ( ) 10.56
18 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 11.14
19 Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) 11.3
20 Central_Greek ( ) 11.54


For comparison, here is a Turk from the same province.
http://i.hizliresim.com/7vLkBY.png


The Turk's oracle results:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 39.48
2 South_Central_Asian 12.99
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 9.82
4 European_Early_Farmers 9.73
5 Near_East 8.23
6 Tungus-Altaic 5.74
7 North_African 3.15
8 Ancestral_Altaic 3.07
9 East_Siberian 1.72
10 Melano_Polynesian 1.59
11 South_Indian 1.06

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turk_Aydin @ 3.897176
2 Turk_Istanbul @ 5.445055
3 Turk @ 5.556530
4 Turk_Balikesir @ 6.767190
5 Turk_Kayseri @ 8.807393
6 Turk_Adana @ 9.461598
7 Azov_Greek @ 9.718751
8 Georgian_Jew @ 11.663621
9 Crimean_Tatar_Coast @ 11.857854
10 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 12.398178
11 Cirkassian @ 13.068304
12 Cretan @ 14.185543
13 Azeri @ 14.590686
14 Uzbek_Tashkent @ 14.781515
15 Nogai @ 14.871901
16 Kurd_North @ 15.051118
17 Kumyk @ 15.103529
18 Stalskoe_Kumyk @ 15.286963
19 Syrian_Jew @ 15.397722
20 Greek_Smyrna @ 15.530954



It doesnt take a genius to figure out autosmal based on Y-dna.

Oh my God shut up please.

[poiuytrewq0987]

There is a full Anatolian Greek member (from Cappadocia) on anthrogenica, and this is his result.

MDLP k23b

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.19
2 European_Early_Farmers 17.39
3 Near_East 13.63
4 South_Central_Asian 11.23
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 6.68
6 North_African 4.52
7 South_East_Asian 1.02
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.79
9 South_Indian 0.72
10 East_Siberian 0.5
11 Paleo_Siberian 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cretan ( ) 5.93
2 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 5.99
3 Cypriot ( ) 6.49
4 Azov_Greek ( ) 7.15
5 Syrian_Jew ( ) 8.03
6 Greek_Islands ( ) 8.05
7 Greek ( ) 8.41
8 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 8.43
9 Greek_Athens ( ) 9.11
10 Italian_South ( ) 9.46
11 Turk_Kayseri ( ) 9.78
12 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 9.81
13 Assyrian_Iraqi ( ) 10.19
14 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 10.42
15 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 10.53
16 Turk ( ) 10.54
17 Romanian_Jew ( ) 10.56
18 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 11.14
19 Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) 11.3
20 Central_Greek ( ) 11.54


Lol. How can a Greek score so heavily Caucasian and yet his top matches are Greek ones?

[Sikeliot]

The Greeks don't really have an uniform appearance, but are wildly diverse. Can find all types of people.

When you remove Pontians and Cypriots, very few Greeks look MENA. I can say that from the perspective of being familiar with Sicilian appearances, Greeks look noticeably significantly northeastern compared to them and I definitely perceive them as looking closer to Balkan Slavs than to Sicilians. So you can gather from that, the distance to MENAs is even greater.

[brennus dux gallorum]

I disagree that only a few Balkan non-Greeks were Hellenized. Many were Hellenized. The Greek nation has assimilated Asia Minor non-Greeks, Levantine non-Greeks, Illyro-Thracian non-Greeks, Slavic non-Greeks, Crimean non-Greeks, and so on. Obviously, not all of them were absorbed right away but over time as they added to the Greek ethnos at various times throughout history. The Greeks, however, still have great Slavic influence and that is what I believe makes them far less East Mediterranean-Levantine.



The Greeks don't really have an uniform appearance, but are wildly diverse. Can find all types of people.

I'm really sorry to disapoint you, but the fact that Greece is genetically homogenous, as well as the fact that 70% have mediterranean phenotype are quite enough to prve that you are wrong. You tell us that we have assimilated balkan, middle eastern, slavic and even crimean people. Then I can't find thew reason that we look closer to Southern Europeans than to any balkanic or slavic nation


When you remove Pontians and Cypriots, very few Greeks look MENA. I can say that from the perspective of being familiar with Sicilian appearances, Greeks look noticeably significantly northeastern compared to them and I definitely perceive them as looking closer to Balkan Slavs than to Sicilians. So you can gather from that, the distance to MENAs is even greater.

apart from being a wrong statement, it's your own, personal perception, a perception of someone who lives some thousands of kilometers from Greece and sicily. After all many Greeks have visited both balkans and Sicily and most of them would never say that balkanic people are familiar in terms of appearence, and even more, people who have visited Greece would never say such a thing about Greeks. Everyone in Greece thinks that Sicilians are the closest in terms of facial features, as well as that Balkans do not look closer to Greeks than for example Southern French do. you on the other hand say the opposite. No you don't know Greeks better than themselves, sorry. You do not even look like a Sicilian, how can you have opinion about them?

[Danishmend]

Lol. How can a Greek score so heavily Caucasian and yet his top matches are Greek ones?

Have you ever checked out that calculator's spreadsheet? (MDLP K23b)


Caucasian component %

Greek 42.05
Greek_Athens 42.64
Greek_Islands 44.66
Greek_Macedonia 42.31
Greek_Northwest 36.39
Greek_Peloponnesos 38.13
Greek_Phokaia 41.64
Greek_Smyrna 43.04
Greek_Thessaloniki 38.89
Greek_Thessaly 38.55

[Hellenas]

Greek DNA: European or MENA?

Around 90% is European.

Greeks genetically

Greek(full Greek only): European 87.6%, Middle Eastern 12.4%. Sub-Saharan African, Northeast African, South Asian, East Asian, North Asian, Native American 0.0%.

DNA Tribes® SNP Admixture Results by Population

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2012-08-01.pdf


According to the genetic site eupedia.com:

Northern Greeks : 93,7 % European
Central Greeks : 92,2 % European
Southern Greeks : 93,9 % European
Eastern Greeks : 91,7% European
Cretan Greeks : 91,1 % European
All Greeks : 93,4 % European"

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t994640-13/?postcount=126#post11562743

[Danishmend]

When you remove Pontians and Cypriots, very few Greeks look MENA. I can say that from the perspective of being familiar with Sicilian appearances, Greeks look noticeably significantly northeastern compared to them and I definitely perceive them as looking closer to Balkan Slavs than to Sicilians. So you can gather from that, the distance to MENAs is even greater.

Behold, here comes the defender and saviour of anthro Greeks.

[Hellenas]

I disagree that only a few Balkan non-Greeks were Hellenized. Many were Hellenized. The Greek nation has assimilated Asia Minor non-Greeks, Levantine non-Greeks, Illyro-Thracian non-Greeks, Slavic non-Greeks, Crimean non-Greeks, and so on. Obviously, not all of them were absorbed right away but over time as they added to the Greek ethnos at various times throughout history. The Greeks, however, still have great Slavic influence and that is what I believe makes them far less East Mediterranean-Levantine.

Some accused you as being an anti-Greek Fyromian, is that right? 'Cause if that's true, I am losing my time with you.

Absolute nonsense. No one cares for what you personally disagree. Bring here unshakeable evidence that the Greeks ever mixed with all those you mentioned and we'll see if you are right or wrong. The foreigners who hellenized were of an insignificant number, they assimilated and dissapeared. Greeks do not have any great Slavic influence, just ancient East European like all Europeans have, more or less.


The Greeks don't really have an uniform appearance, but are wildly diverse. Can find all types of people.

Like all other Europeans and all peoples in all over the world. You will never find only one phenotype/racial type in any country. Greeks formed mainly by two racial types, Mediterraneans and Alpines and they have some Dinaric elements. Greeks in general are formed by various types of the white/caucasoid race.


Some things you must know:

"It is inaccurate to say that the modern Greeks are different physically from the ancient Greeks; such a statement is based on an ignorance of the Greek ethnic character."

"It is my personal reaction to the living Greeks that their continuity with their ancestors of the ancient world is remarkable, rather than the opposite."

www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII14.htm

"The modern inhabitants of Greece itself differ surprisingly little from their classical predecessors."

www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-V4.htm

Carleton Stevens Coon(American Anthropologist)

"J. Lawrence Angel noted that from the earliest times to the present “racial continuity in Greece is striking.”"

"Buxton who had earlier studied Greek skeletal material and measured modern Greeks, especially in Cyprus, finds that the modern Greeks “possess physical characteristics not differing essentially from those of the former [ancient Greeks].”"

"Finally, a more recent statistical comparison of ancient and modern Greek skulls resulted in the discovery of “a remarkable similarity in craniofacial morphology between modern and ancient Greeks.”"

dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/fallmerayer/

"Poulianos’ conclusions of Greek continuity are not simply the wishful thinking of a modern Greek. In a critical review of his book , J. Lawrence Angel states that “Poulianos is correct in pointing out ... that there is complete continuity genetically from ancient to modern times.”"

dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/

"In conclusion, it seems that the ancient Greeks were Mediterraneans, Cromagnoids, Alpines and Dinarics with fluctuations in percentage composition."

"Robert Charles admit that the physiognomy of the Greek population has remained largely the same over the centuries and the Greeks are descendants of the ancient Greeks and not a mixture of medieval invaders, such as Avars, Franks, Turks, Venetians. That is to say, Charles finds racial continuity to Greeks, considering however that originally they belong to these four specific racial types."

Robert Charles(French Anthropologist)

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/198/racial-composition-ancient-greece-charles

A comparative cephalometric investigation of the Greek craniofacial pattern through 4,000 years.

"A comparative cephalometric investigation was conducted between modern and ancient Greeks to determine craniofacial characteristics and to examine the significance of ethnic heritage. The modern sample was composed of 54 individuals chosen on the basis of ethnic background, normal occlusion and facial harmony. The ancient sample consisted of 40 skulls with normal occlusion dated back to the Minoan civilization (ca. 1,800-1,200 B.C.). A remarkable similarity in craniofacial morphology was revealed between the two groups, suggesting a close genetic affinity between modern and ancient Greeks. The ability of the craniofacial complex to make compensatory or balancing changes was noted. The craniofacial complex was seen to function as an integrated biological entity. Moreover, the cranial base showed a definite influence on skeletal profile configuration. These results provide a more comprehensive understanding of how craniofacial variables interact and contribute to the morphology of the dentofacial skeleton."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2672905

The whole study: http://www.smilesareus.gr/page61.php

"An overall view of the findings obtained from these cephalometric analyses indicates that the Greek ethnic group has remained genetically stable in its cephalic and facial morphology for the last 4,000 years."

The article: http://www.angle.org/doi/pdf/10.1043/0003-3219%281989%29059%3C0195%3AACCIOT%3E2.0.CO%3B2


Greeks Cluster Genetically (ONLY) with other Europeans

Conclusions from the studies using multiple autosomal gene markers:

•Greeks cluster genetically with 41 other Europeans populations tested [49].

•Greeks cluster with other South European (like Italians) and North-European populations and are close to the Basques [48] (FIG. 25).

• Greeks grouped with other European and Mediterranean populations [47,51], (FIG. 22, FIG. 23).

•Greeks are some of the earliest contributors of genetic material to the rest of the Europeans as they are one of the oldest populations in Europe [54].

•Greeks are closest to Italians, Romanians (small sample size) and Former Yugoslavians [52], and to Albanians, southern Balkan Slavs and Bulgarians [53] (FIG. 26).

Christos Karatzios, Stephen G. Miller, Costas D. Triantaphyllidis.

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/92/greeks-cluster-genetically-europeans


THE DNA OF THE INHABITANTS OF GREECE (by Aristotle University of Thessaloniki):

"The DNA of the Greeks has the following origin: 8% in recent years (about 3,000 years from now), 20% during the Neolithic period (9000-3000), 44% in the last upper Paleolithic era ( 14500-9000), 14.5% on average over the Paleolithic era (26,000 to 14,500 years) and a 11% in the original upper Paleolithic era (45.500 -26.000)."

THE GREEK DNA HAS NOT CHANGED OVER THE LAST 3,000 YEARS. GREEKS ARE GREEKS ACCORDING TO GENETICS.

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/44/updated-dna-inhabitants-greece

[Myanthropologies]

Some accused you as being an anti-Greek Fyromian, is that right? 'Cause if that's true, I am losing my time with you.

Absolute nonsense. No one cares for what you personally disagree. Bring here unshakeable evidence that the Greeks ever mixed with all those you mentioned and we'll see if you are right or wrong. The foreigners who hellenized were of an insignificant number, they assimilated and dissapeared. Greeks do not have any great Slavic influence, just ancient East European like all Europeans have, more or less.



Like all other Europeans and all peoples in all over the world. You will never find only one phenotype/racial type in any country. Greeks formed mainly by two racial types, Mediterraneans and Alpines and they have some Dinaric elements. Greeks in general are formed by various types of the white/caucasoid race.


Some things you must know:

"It is inaccurate to say that the modern Greeks are different physically from the ancient Greeks; such a statement is based on an ignorance of the Greek ethnic character."

"It is my personal reaction to the living Greeks that their continuity with their ancestors of the ancient world is remarkable, rather than the opposite."

www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII14.htm

"The modern inhabitants of Greece itself differ surprisingly little from their classical predecessors."

www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-V4.htm

Carleton Stevens Coon(American Anthropologist)

"J. Lawrence Angel noted that from the earliest times to the present “racial continuity in Greece is striking.”"

"Buxton who had earlier studied Greek skeletal material and measured modern Greeks, especially in Cyprus, finds that the modern Greeks “possess physical characteristics not differing essentially from those of the former [ancient Greeks].”"

"Finally, a more recent statistical comparison of ancient and modern Greek skulls resulted in the discovery of “a remarkable similarity in craniofacial morphology between modern and ancient Greeks.”"

dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/fallmerayer/

"Poulianos’ conclusions of Greek continuity are not simply the wishful thinking of a modern Greek. In a critical review of his book , J. Lawrence Angel states that “Poulianos is correct in pointing out ... that there is complete continuity genetically from ancient to modern times.”"

dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/

"In conclusion, it seems that the ancient Greeks were Mediterraneans, Cromagnoids, Alpines and Dinarics with fluctuations in percentage composition."

"Robert Charles admit that the physiognomy of the Greek population has remained largely the same over the centuries and the Greeks are descendants of the ancient Greeks and not a mixture of medieval invaders, such as Avars, Franks, Turks, Venetians. That is to say, Charles finds racial continuity to Greeks, considering however that originally they belong to these four specific racial types."

Robert Charles(French Anthropologist)

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/198/racial-composition-ancient-greece-charles

A comparative cephalometric investigation of the Greek craniofacial pattern through 4,000 years.

"A comparative cephalometric investigation was conducted between modern and ancient Greeks to determine craniofacial characteristics and to examine the significance of ethnic heritage. The modern sample was composed of 54 individuals chosen on the basis of ethnic background, normal occlusion and facial harmony. The ancient sample consisted of 40 skulls with normal occlusion dated back to the Minoan civilization (ca. 1,800-1,200 B.C.). A remarkable similarity in craniofacial morphology was revealed between the two groups, suggesting a close genetic affinity between modern and ancient Greeks. The ability of the craniofacial complex to make compensatory or balancing changes was noted. The craniofacial complex was seen to function as an integrated biological entity. Moreover, the cranial base showed a definite influence on skeletal profile configuration. These results provide a more comprehensive understanding of how craniofacial variables interact and contribute to the morphology of the dentofacial skeleton."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2672905

The whole study: http://www.smilesareus.gr/page61.php

"An overall view of the findings obtained from these cephalometric analyses indicates that the Greek ethnic group has remained genetically stable in its cephalic and facial morphology for the last 4,000 years."

The article: http://www.angle.org/doi/pdf/10.1043/0003-3219%281989%29059%3C0195%3AACCIOT%3E2.0.CO%3B2


Greeks Cluster Genetically (ONLY) with other Europeans

Conclusions from the studies using multiple autosomal gene markers:

•Greeks cluster genetically with 41 other Europeans populations tested [49].

•Greeks cluster with other South European (like Italians) and North-European populations and are close to the Basques [48] (FIG. 25).

• Greeks grouped with other European and Mediterranean populations [47,51], (FIG. 22, FIG. 23).

•Greeks are some of the earliest contributors of genetic material to the rest of the Europeans as they are one of the oldest populations in Europe [54].

•Greeks are closest to Italians, Romanians (small sample size) and Former Yugoslavians [52], and to Albanians, southern Balkan Slavs and Bulgarians [53] (FIG. 26).

Christos Karatzios, Stephen G. Miller, Costas D. Triantaphyllidis.

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/92/greeks-cluster-genetically-europeans


THE DNA OF THE INHABITANTS OF GREECE (by Aristotle University of Thessaloniki):

"The DNA of the Greeks has the following origin: 8% in recent years (about 3,000 years from now), 20% during the Neolithic period (9000-3000), 44% in the last upper Paleolithic era ( 14500-9000), 14.5% on average over the Paleolithic era (26,000 to 14,500 years) and a 11% in the original upper Paleolithic era (45.500 -26.000)."

THE GREEK DNA HAS NOT CHANGED OVER THE LAST 3,000 YEARS. GREEKS ARE GREEKS ACCORDING TO GENETICS.

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/44/updated-dna-inhabitants-greece

It depends on where the Greek is from. Mainland Greeks are closer to North Europeans than to MENAS genetically, but the rest vary.

[Hadouken]

myanthropologies entered this thread :D in b4 this thread turns into a discussion about afghans

[Danishmend]

It depends on where the Greek is from. Mainland Greeks are closer to North Europeans than to MENAS genetically, but the rest vary.

Bullcrap hahahaha. This forum is amazing.

[poiuytrewq0987]

THE GREEK DNA HAS NOT CHANGED OVER THE LAST 3,000 YEARS. GREEKS ARE GREEKS ACCORDING TO GENETICS.

Most of the studies you posted are so old or before the advent of DNA testing and modern technology. Some of them are also from Philhellene sources. I don't think they are reliable.

And I'm not anti-Greek. If to raise question about the supposed Greek racial purity makes me anti-Greek then so be it... :lol:

[Hellenas]

It depends on where the Greek is from. Mainland Greeks are closer to North Europeans than to MENAS genetically, but the rest vary.

No Greek is close to your MENAS. Greeks are close genetically to Italians and Balkanians.

[Hellenas]

Most of the studies you posted are so old or before the advent of DNA testing and modern technology. Some of them are also from Philhellene sources. I don't think they are reliable.

And I'm not anti-Greek. If to raise question about the supposed Greek racial purity makes me anti-Greek then so be it... :lol:

So you are a Fyromian and I am losing my time with you as I thought.

There is not such a thing as "philhellene sources", science is sciene and you are just a hilarious Fyromian hater.

[Myanthropologies]

No Greek is close to your MENAS. Greeks are close genetically to Italians and Balkanians.

Okay, that's true, but put those populations aside and some Greeks are genetically close to some MENAs.

[poiuytrewq0987]

So you are a Fyromian and I am losing my time with you as I thought.

There is not such a thing as "philhellene sources", science is sciene and you are just a hilarious Fyromian hater.

What you are is an idiot making assumptions about my character. :thumbs up

[brennus dux gallorum]

It depends on where the Greek is from. Mainland Greeks are closer to North Europeans than to MENAS genetically, but the rest vary.

and who exacly are those "non mainland Greeks" who are closer to MENAS than to Northern Europeans?

Because as far as i know non mainland Greeks do not differ genetically from mainland Greeks except of pontians and some dodecanese, who have not any significant difference.

[Myanthropologies]

and who exacly are those "non mainland Greeks" who are closer to MENAS than to Northern Europeans?

Because as far as i know non mainland Greeks do not differ genetically from mainland Greeks except of pontians and some dodecanese, who have not any significant difference.

Mostly Aegean islanders and pontics. The rest are closer to all euros, except probably finns, but that doesn't really count.

[Danishmend]

http://abload.de/img/sikeliotaglguvk.jpg

[Myanthropologies]

http://abload.de/img/sikeliotaglguvk.jpg

C'mon man. I get that Turks and Greeks have beef, but the trolling isn't necessary.

[Myanthropologies]

myanthropologies entered this thread :D in b4 this thread turns into a discussion about afghans

It only turns into a discussion about afghans when I point out non European influence in another ethnicity, and a member of that ethnicity gets butthurt and says "moAr white than afghanzzzz!!"

[brennus dux gallorum]

Mostly Aegean islanders and pontics. The rest are closer to all euros, except probably finns, but that doesn't really count.

Aegian islanders, are not different from most of mainlanders, genetically, and anthropologically. If i am not mistaken i already told you that in my previous post

next?

[Myanthropologies]

Aegian islanders, are not different from most of mainlanders, genetically, and anthropologically. If i am not mistaken i already told you that in my previous post

next?

Aegean islanders are like Sicilians genetically but instead of shifting towards semites, they shift towards CHG like people.

Of course they are close to other Greeks, but I'm comparing them between euros and menas (as a whole).

[Dolfi]

Who says? Conventional history made by Anglo-Saxons?

Some evidence that doubt this theory made by westerners:

THE PHOENICIAN ALPHABET IS THE GREEK-PELASGIAN ALPHABET.
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/16/phoenician-alphabet-greek-pelasgian

Greek alphabet was in use at 6000 BC in the Aegean
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/15/greek-alphabet-use-6000-aegean

3,000 BC., Hellenic letters from Milos island.
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/206/000-hellenic-letters-milos-island

lol what a fucked up neo greek mongrel

It is well known as the oxygen we are breathing that ancient greeks ( with whom you modern greeks have nothing to do about) took their alphabet from the advanced civilization in middle east such as Phoenicians.

Anglo saxons created your nation 200 years ago, so you accusing them for propaganda is like the child accusing the rich father for not giving him enough money.

[Dolfi]

Well, there is the massive assimilation of Greeks by Turks during the early years of Turkish invasions in Asia Minor. That sapped the Greek population. The loss was made up by assimilating Slavs, other Balkan peoples in the remaining Greek-controlled territories. That probably made them more Europeans as a consequence, but Greeks still have a rather mixed appearance that slant toward MENA than European. If other Balkan peoples have mixed appearances, they still look European than Levantine or North Africa.

During the Seljuk invasion of Asia Minor there were just a few greek speaking populations in the coast that continued to live even during the Ottoman invasions.

However they were byzantine leftovers, basically a bunch of different mongrels greekified with the passing of centuries after the eastern roman empire shiefted its language from latin to koine greek, just a mass bunch of citizens with no ethic origin.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Aegean islanders are like Sicilians genetically but instead of shifting towards semites, they shift towards CHG like people.

Of course they are close to other Greeks, but I'm comparing them between euros and menas (as a whole).

i already told you that Aegean islanders have the same autosomal DNA and YDNA with most of mainland, and are not closer to Sicilians than most of mainlanders to Sicilians

there is not research showing the existance of "aegean DNA" or aegean phenotypes, except of very particular islands, less than 10 out of 160 populated

[Myanthropologies]

i already told you that Aegean islanders have the same autosomal DNA and YDNA with most of mainland, and are not closer to Sicilians than most of mainlanders to Sicilians

there is not research showing the existance of "aegean DNA" or aegean phenotypes, except of very particular islands, less than 10 out of 160 populated

Y DNA isn't very significant in indication of everything ya know. Just go ask Sikeliot. He is where I got this info from. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and given where the Aegean Islands are geographically located, I don't understand why some Greeks on here are so surprised by this or acting like it is impossible.

All Greeks are still European, even Pontic ones, and you're even closer to all Greeks beforever other people. However, outside of that, there is MENA influence in some people

[brennus dux gallorum]

Y DNA isn't very significant in indication of everything ya know. Just go ask Sikeliot. He is where I got this info from. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and given where the Aegean Islands are geographically located, I don't understand why some Greeks on here are so surprised by this or acting like it is impossible.

All Greeks are still European, even Pontic ones, and you're even closer to all Greeks beforever other people. However, outside of that, there is MENA influence in some people

Because sources prove the opposite of what you claim, I guess?

And particularly, as i said no source claims the existance of "island's DNA", in terms of both Y and autsomal DNA

[Myanthropologies]

Because sources prove the opposite of what you claim, I guess?

And particularly, as i said no source claims the existance of "island's DNA"

Yes, but Sikeliot has a bunch of their oracles which shows their MENA influence. Except their MENA influence is Caucasus/Iranic, and not semitic. So it is more strictly "west asian" influence rather than MENA.

[ifloD]

We are all Middle Eastern and Africans in the end. Albanians, Greeks, Serbians. We are all humans ffs!

[Wrong]

We are all Middle Eastern and Africans in the end. Albanians, Greeks, Serbians. We are all humans ffs!
gay liberal piece of shit. i am 100% antic european. 0% african dna.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Yes, but Sikeliot has a bunch of their oracles which shows their MENA influence. Except their MENA influence is Caucasus/Iranic, and not semitic. So it is more strictly "west asian" influence rather than MENA.

can we talk a little more seriously, which means to not include a 18 years old boy in our discussion?

I repeat, once again, in all researches, almost all the aegean islands, and all the ionian islands (I have 50% ancestry from there), have not different autosomal or YDNA from Southern and central mainland (my other 50% is from there). MENA, as well as west asian influence is the same in these regions. The only difference is in Northern regions of the country, where there is a little more northeastern european autosomal influence.

[catgeorge]

Of course some Greeks are close to some MENA's but they are outliers - Greeks lived in Levant, Caucasius, Egypt and Syria for many centuries. The Euro components in Levant, Egypt and Syria is largely Greek because thats the flip side of admixture.

Then we confuse the East Med types as MENA's like Levants and Cypriots that will have more J1 than Greeks but also has I and R1 as Greeks in equal measure for example approx 35-40% in combination.

[Dolfi]

Of course some Greeks are close to some MENA's but they are outliers - Greeks lived in Levant, Caucasius, Egypt and Syria for many centuries. The Euro components in Levant, Egypt and Syria is largely Greek because thats the flip side of admixture.

Then we confuse the East Med types as MENA's like Levants and Cypriots that will have more J1 than Greeks but also has I and R1 as Greeks in equal measure for example approx 35-40% in combination.

Modern greeks are close to MENAs because you a jewish creation of the last 200 years and you are a mix of every shit that lived in mainland and islands.

Euro component in levant is from crusades.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Modern greeks are close to MENAs because you a jewish creation of the last 200 years and you are a mix of every shit that lived in mainland and islands.

Euro component in levant is from crusades.

:picard1::picard2:

for sure we are a creation, like the rest of man kind, I guess:D

but what's exacly your problem with jews? Can you tell me one einstein or Freud in yuor small islamic nation?

[Danishmend]

Yes, but Sikeliot has a bunch of their oracles which shows their MENA influence. Except their MENA influence is Caucasus/Iranic, and not semitic. So it is more strictly "west asian" influence rather than MENA.

If you look at PCAs you can see Greeks are shifted towards the Levant, not towards the Caucasus, which reflects their significant Neolithic ancestry.

[catgeorge]

Modern greeks are close to MENAs because you a jewish creation of the last 200 years and you are a mix of every shit that lived in mainland and islands.

Euro component in levant is from crusades.

Be quiet caucasian midget

[catgeorge]

If you look at PCAs you can see Greeks are shifted towards the Levant, not towards the Caucasus, which reflects their significant Neolithic ancestry.

Majority (70%) of Greeks barely have 2% MENA in their Autosmals.

10-15% of Greeks score 15-20% MENA with remainder being European.

the other 10-15% is a mixture of East Europe and Northwest Europe

[Dolfi]

Be quiet caucasian midget

lulz, neo greek subhuman mongrel, small monobrow hairy midget telling me to shut the mouth

dont forget, you derive from albanian sperm in a high degree

[catgeorge]

lulz, neo greek subhuman mongrel, small monobrow hairy midget telling me to shut the mouth

dont forget, you derive from albanian sperm in a high degree

You look nothing like us you are too short and dark - meditteraneans are tall

Albanians in Greece


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SESxnbEvoPo

[Dolfi]

You look nothing like us you are too short and dark - meditteraneans are tall

Albanians in Greece


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SESxnbEvoPo

You are confussing yourself neo greek subhuman.

These are gypsies, very similar to what you mongrels are.

Neo greeks are the turks and arabs of europe, short, dark, hairy, monbrow etc, mongrel cocktail

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/121009033859-06-greece-protest-merkel-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03204/greece_3204490b.jpg
http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120908&t=2&i=650827228&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=300&r=CBRE8871JGX00
https://img.rt.com/files/news/1e/0f/80/00/42.jpg

Even turks are more european than you.

[Hellenas]

Okay, that's true, but put those populations aside and some Greeks are genetically close to some MENAs.

Blah, blah, blah. An Iranian-something try as always to pass Greeks for MENAS and Middle Easterners.

Here is where Greeks are close.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8080/8325654300_7d1a494875_o.png

B. The genetic distances between the inhabitants of nine Mediterranean countries and the three major human races.

Anthropologically, the Mediterraneans belong to the Caucasoid group, although some Negroid and Mongoloig admixtures have to be taken into account. The genetic analysis demonstrates certain features of interest.
1. The genetic distance of the populations of North Mediterranean countries from Caucasoids decreases
from the East to the West.
2. The genetic distance from Mongoloids increases from the East to the West for the populations of North and South Mediterranean countries.
3. The genetic distances between Bulgarians, Turks, Greeks, Italians, Spaniards, French, Israelis and Caucasians are smaller than that between the inhabitants of each country and the Negroids.
4. Libyans and Egyptians are closer to Negroids than to Mongoloids and Algerians are closer to Negroids than to Caucasoids. This is probably caused by Negroid immigration into these countries.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/Hellenas1977/MedGenetics.jpg

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/48/genetic-composition-greece

[Hellenas]

You are confussing yourself neo greek subhuman.

These are gypsies, very similar to what you mongrels are.

Neo greeks are the turks and arabs of europe, short, dark, hairy, monbrow etc, mongrel cocktail

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/121009033859-06-greece-protest-merkel-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03204/greece_3204490b.jpg
http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120908&t=2&i=650827228&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=300&r=CBRE8871JGX00
https://img.rt.com/files/news/1e/0f/80/00/42.jpg

Even turks are more european than you.

These are the darkest tanned Greeks you could find? We can get darker than that don't worry, we are the proud niggers of Europe who made the civilization and those Northern Albino masters of yours were always a bunch of blond animals that civilized only and exclusively by us(+Romans, who were also dark). Dark= superior, dark= civilization, light= inferior, light= barbarian, that's the only historical truth.

Even your master Hitler could get dark just like us.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/18/15/071577FE000005DC-0-image-m-56_1450453765512.jpg

[Hellenas]

What you are is an idiot making assumptions about my character. :thumbs up

You are just a hilarious enemy of the Greek people who attack them with nonsense. and lies.

Lol a Fyromians, an Albanian and an Iranian-something attack and slander Greeks once again.

[GoneWithTheWind]

MENA

[Myanthropologies]

Blah, blah, blah. An Iranian-something try as always to pass Greeks for MENAS and Middle Easterners.

Here is where Greeks are close.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8080/8325654300_7d1a494875_o.png

B. The genetic distances between the inhabitants of nine Mediterranean countries and the three major human races.

Anthropologically, the Mediterraneans belong to the Caucasoid group, although some Negroid and Mongoloig admixtures have to be taken into account. The genetic analysis demonstrates certain features of interest.
1. The genetic distance of the populations of North Mediterranean countries from Caucasoids decreases
from the East to the West.
2. The genetic distance from Mongoloids increases from the East to the West for the populations of North and South Mediterranean countries.
3. The genetic distances between Bulgarians, Turks, Greeks, Italians, Spaniards, French, Israelis and Caucasians are smaller than that between the inhabitants of each country and the Negroids.
4. Libyans and Egyptians are closer to Negroids than to Mongoloids and Algerians are closer to Negroids than to Caucasoids. This is probably caused by Negroid immigration into these countries.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/Hellenas1977/MedGenetics.jpg

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/48/genetic-composition-greece

I never said Greeks are MENAs, you are european, but some have MENA influence. I like my iranian/Iranic culture anyways. I don't have to claim other ones lol.

Algerians closer to negroid than to caucasoids though? What crack have you been smoking?

[Hellenas]

I never said Greeks are MENAs, you are european, but some have MENA influence. I like my iranian/Iranic culture anyways. I don't have to claim other ones lol.

If some of us have MENA influence doesn't mean we are close to MENAS. Northern Europeans have some Mongoloid/Siberian influence and ancestry but they also are not close to Mongols and Siberians. You are the one who is smoking crack imbecile.


Algerians closer to negroid than to caucasoids though? What crack have you been smoking?

Blame the Geneticists.

[Myanthropologies]

Of course some Greeks are close to some MENA's but they are outliers - Greeks lived in Levant, Caucasius, Egypt and Syria for many centuries. The Euro components in Levant, Egypt and Syria is largely Greek because thats the flip side of admixture.

Then we confuse the East Med types as MENA's like Levants and Cypriots that will have more J1 than Greeks but also has I and R1 as Greeks in equal measure for example approx 35-40% in combination.

Thank you for being honest. Your thoughts sum up mine. Most Greeks are Europeans and are closer to North Euros than to MENAS (except for maybe Finns who don't tally count as they are outliers), but some are closer tof Menas than to non greek or non South euros.

[Myanthropologies]

If some of us have MENA influence doesn't mean we are close to MENAS. Northern Europeans have some Mongoloid/Siberian influence and ancestry but they also are not close to Mongols and Siberians. You are the one who is smoking crack imbecile.



Blame the Geneticists.

Algerians are not closer to negroids than to caucasoids. Some of them are even very European influenced genetically, get out of here with your bs. You are dark washing other ethnicities to Nordic wash greeks.

[Hellenas]

Algerians are not closer to negroids than to caucasoids. Some of them are even very European influenced genetically, get out of here with your bs. You are dark washing other ethnicities to Nordic wash greeks.

I didn't posted this map 'cause of Algerians but 'cause of Greeks, 'cause you said that Greeks are closer to MENAS but you are so stupid to get that. I don't give a shit about Algerians. I Nordic wash the Greeks? Where you saw that? I only explain what the Greek are and you try to present Aegean islanders as Middle Easterners and MENAS.

[Rethel]

27% Indoeuropean, rest MENA.

[Hellenas]

23% Indoeuropean, rest MENA.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=16005&dateline=1471780109

Hmm, said someone with a kid in his avatar that looks more like an Albino-Chineze.

[Scholarios]

...

[Sikeliot]

i already told you that Aegean islanders have the same autosomal DNA and YDNA with most of mainland, and are not closer to Sicilians than most of mainlanders to Sicilians

there is not research showing the existance of "aegean DNA" or aegean phenotypes, except of very particular islands, less than 10 out of 160 populated

Yes, they are. I made a PCA plot with all of the people I have GEDmatch results for... the island Greeks plot in the Sicilian cluster, shifting toward the Levant like Sicilians do. The mainlanders are up near the Bulgarian sample, shifted significantly north of all of the Sicilians and most of the islanders.

Only SOME islanders, and outliers at that, plot with mainlanders. The rest are near Sicilians and Ashkenazi Jews.

If they don't look it to you, fine.. but the genetics say that Sicilians/Aegean islanders/Cretans form a cluster away from mainland Greeks.

[Rethel]

Hmm, said someone with a kid in his avatar that looks more like an Albino-Chineze.

And what?

[Queen B]

What a stupid question. :picard1:

[GoneWithTheWind]

Most Greeks I've seen here looked south Euro regardless of genetic results. Some could even pass in central Europe.

[catgeorge]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/13243981_1350891708270623_3315742320437627688_o.jp g

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/13248445_1347141811978946_1697817367188590492_o.jp g

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greekfans.PNG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/athens.PNG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/athensgreeks.PNG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/13329439_1360190334007427_7485769964474699907_o.jp g

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/greeks%20%282%29.PNG

[wvwvw]

What I define as European DNA is DNA that is not native to Africa, Asia or elsewhere. The Greeks "borrowed" their alphabet from the Levantines, who could say that the borrowing wasn't the result of a genetic continuity?

Greeks "borrowed" no alphabet from the Levantines. Implying that Greeks borrowed their alphabet from Levantines is to lie. It is freud, just as is the term Levantine which first begun to be used only last century to denote middle eastern citizens of EUROPEAN origin. Before 1000 BC the middle east was Indo-European, people who spoke IE.

The Greek alphabet was not taken by the Levantines. The Phoenician alphabet was given to the Phoenicians in 1450 BC by a Greek named Phoenix after whom the Phoenicians were re-named. Phoenix ancestors came from Argos and before he left the Greek part of Egypt which was controlled by his family for over 200 years as part of the 15th Dynasty of Foreign Kings, the Phoenicians used only Cuneiform.

It has already been proven that this Greek alphabetic script was known in Greece 6000 years ago by radio carbon dating whereas it only appears in Egypt in about 1800 BC at the time of the first Foreign King or Hyksos incursions.

[wvwvw]

Furthermore Herodotus never said that the Greeks adopted their alphabet from the Phoenicians but that the Greeks and Phoenicians adopted the alphabet from Cadmus when he left Egypt. Before the time of Cadmus in 1450 BC the Phoenicians were using Cuneiform. Archaeology shows that Cadmian letters came to Phoenican from the Egyptian Siniatic Script which was the script of the Greek Hyksos or Suppliants (from the Greek word Hykesios)who invaded Egypt of whom Cadmus was a descendent. Therefore the Cadmian script comes from a Greek who preserved this script in Egypt after the Ogygian deluges caused by the Thera eruption. Egyptian inscriptions prove that the Greek kings Epaphus and Apis (Sarapis or Epaphus II who was worshiped as a Greek God by both Greeks and Egyptians) were ruling Egypt at this time.

The Greeks possessed writing Linear A and B since 1800 BC and Cadmian-Ionic script since 1400 BC. Homer was writing in 940 BC and by his time 5 different Cadmian scripts had 
existed for centuries so there cannot have been a break in Greek writing 
whatsoever.

[Danishmend]

Greeks "borrowed" no alphabet from the Levantines. Implying that Greeks borrowed their alphabet from Levantines is to lie. It is freud, just as is the term Levantine which first begun to be used only last century to denote middle eastern citizens of EUROPEAN origin. Before 1000 BC the middle east was Indo-European, people who spoke IE.

The Greek alphabet was not taken by the Levantines. The Phoenician alphabet was given to the Phoenicians in 1450 BC by a Greek named Phoenix after whom the Phoenicians were re-named. Phoenix ancestors came from Argos and before he left the Greek part of Egypt which was controlled by his family for over 200 years as part of the 15th Dynasty of Foreign Kings, the Phoenicians used only Cuneiform.

It has already been proven that this Greek alphabetic script was known in Greece 6000 years ago by radio carbon dating whereas it only appears in Egypt in about 1800 BC at the time of the first Foreign King or Hyksos incursions.

:cool:

[Pahli]

Neolithic Greece is best Greece

[davai]

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22527821


The comparison seemed to rule out an origin for the Minoans in North Africa: the ancient Cretans showed little genetic similarity to Libyans, Egyptians or the Sudanese. They were also genetically distant from populations in the Arabian Peninsula, including Saudis, and Yemenis.

say bye-bye to Bernals Black Athena.

[Journeyman26]

Furthermore Herodotus never said that the Greeks adopted their alphabet from the Phoenicians but that the Greeks and Phoenicians adopted the alphabet from Cadmus when he left Egypt. Before the time of Cadmus in 1450 BC the Phoenicians were using Cuneiform. Archaeology shows that Cadmian letters came to Phoenican from the Egyptian Siniatic Script which was the script of the Greek Hyksos or Suppliants (from the Greek word Hykesios)who invaded Egypt of whom Cadmus was a descendent. Therefore the Cadmian script comes from a Greek who preserved this script in Egypt after the Ogygian deluges caused by the Thera eruption. Egyptian inscriptions prove that the Greek kings Epaphus and Apis (Sarapis or Epaphus II who was worshiped as a Greek God by both Greeks and Egyptians) were ruling Egypt at this time.

The Greeks possessed writing Linear A and B since 1800 BC and Cadmian-Ionic script since 1400 BC. Homer was writing in 940 BC and by his time 5 different Cadmian scripts had 
existed for centuries so there cannot have been a break in Greek writing 
whatsoever.

Come on sister, you are using Ancient Greek literary sources, which could not possibly have access to the breadth and scope of the information to make these assertions. The Phoenetic alphabet was a direct continuation from the Proto-Sinaitic which was in use since ~1900 B.C. (Garfinkel et al., 2015). Proto-Sinaitic was fairly basic, but the fact that it is a sound based alphabet not a pictographic one (the only time this was ever independently developed in the World) mark it as the predecessor of Phoenician. The Ahiram epitaph on the sarcophagus of king Ahiram (1200 BC), one of five known Byblian (Phoenician colony in Lebanon founded in royal inscriptions, uses the fully developed Phoenician script (Daniels et al., 1996). It is a well established fact that the Phoenicians spread their script throughout the Mediterranean (Fischer and Rodgers, 2004; Daniels, 1996). The development and spread of the Phoenetic script was one of the most important steps for language in the history of the world. Also, Cuneiform is not a language but a script used by different languages, this was known the the Phoenicians due to proximity. I am sure various Phoenician products had symbols in cuneiform, just like we have words in english to describe german/japanese things. However, during the neo-Assyrian empire ~900 B.C., Phoenician was rapidly adopted by the Assyrians replacing Akkadian and Sumerian which both used Cuneiform.

- Garfinkel, Y., Golub, M., Misgav, H., Ganor, S. 2015. "The ʾIšbaʿal Inscription from Khirbet Qeiyafa". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, 373: 217–233.
- Daniels, P.T. 1996. The World's Writing Systems. Oxford (pub).
- Fischer, Steven Roger 2004. A history of writing. Reaktion Books (pub)
- Geller, M. 1997. The Last Wedge. Zeitschrift für Assyriologie und vorderasiatische Archäologie, 86 : 43–95.

[wvwvw]

Come on sister, you are using Ancient Greek literary sources, which could not possibly have access to the breadth and scope of the information to make these assertions. The Phoenetic alphabet was a direct continuation from the Proto-Sinaitic which was in use since ~1900 B.C. (Garfinkel et al., 2015). Proto-Sinaitic was fairly basic, but the fact that it is a sound based alphabet not a pictographic one (the only time this was ever independently developed in the World) mark it as the predecessor of Phoenician. The Ahiram epitaph on the sarcophagus of king Ahiram (1200 BC), one of five known Byblian (Phoenician colony in Lebanon founded in royal inscriptions, uses the fully developed Phoenician script (Daniels et al., 1996). It is a well established fact that the Phoenicians spread their script throughout the Mediterranean (Fischer and Rodgers, 2004; Daniels, 1996). The development and spread of the Phoenetic script was one of the most important steps for language in the history of the world.

- Garfinkel, Y., Golub, M., Misgav, H., Ganor, S. 2015. "The ʾIšbaʿal Inscription from Khirbet Qeiyafa". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, 373: 217–233.
- Daniels, P.T. 1996. The World's Writing Systems. Oxford (pub).
- Fischer, Steven Roger 2004. A history of writing. Reaktion Books (pub)

It is sources verified by archeology. Even the Greek letters that were discovered in Milos island predate the Phoenicians. You cannot dismiss what the historical records and archeology records show. You do know that the Middle east coast had been colonised first by Minoan and Pelasgian Greeks, I hope.

Btw what part of Ancient Greek sources is not reliable when these sources are also corraborrated by Egyptian and other sources?

[Danaan]

Come on sister, you are using Ancient Greek literary sources, which could not possibly have access to the breadth and scope of the information to make these assertions. The Phoenetic alphabet was a direct continuation from the Proto-Sinaitic which was in use since ~1900 B.C. (Garfinkel et al., 2015). Proto-Sinaitic was fairly basic, but the fact that it is a sound based alphabet not a pictographic one (the only time this was ever independently developed in the World) mark it as the predecessor of Phoenician. The Ahiram epitaph on the sarcophagus of king Ahiram (1200 BC), one of five known Byblian (Phoenician colony in Lebanon founded in royal inscriptions, uses the fully developed Phoenician script (Daniels et al., 1996). It is a well established fact that the Phoenicians spread their script throughout the Mediterranean (Fischer and Rodgers, 2004; Daniels, 1996). The development and spread of the Phoenetic script was one of the most important steps for language in the history of the world. Also, Cuneiform is not a language but a script used by different languages, this was known the the Phoenicians due to proximity. I am sure various Phoenician products had symbols in cuneiform, just like we have words in english to describe german/japanese things. However, during the neo-Assyrian empire ~900 B.C., Phoenician was rapidly adopted by the Assyrians replacing Akkadian and Sumerian which both used Cuneiform.

- Garfinkel, Y., Golub, M., Misgav, H., Ganor, S. 2015. "The ʾIšbaʿal Inscription from Khirbet Qeiyafa". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, 373: 217–233.
- Daniels, P.T. 1996. The World's Writing Systems. Oxford (pub).
- Fischer, Steven Roger 2004. A history of writing. Reaktion Books (pub)
- Geller, M. 1997. The Last Wedge. Zeitschrift für Assyriologie und vorderasiatische Archäologie, 86 : 43–95.

What's 'phoenetic'?

[Journeyman26]

It is sources verified by archeology. Even the Greek letters that were discovered in Milos island predate the Phoenicians. You cannot dismiss what the historical records and archeology records show. You do know that the Middle east coast had been colonised first by Minoan and Pelasgian Greeks, I hope.

..and we were all Africans at one point but that is about as relevant. You tell me not to dismiss Ancient Sources, but then immediately dismiss four modern sources from peer reviewed systems. The Minoans used Linear A (hieroglyphic script), and the Mycenaean used Linear B (also hieroglyphic). Phoenician and its predecessor languages was the first linguistic system to use sounds instead of words as the bases for characters.. that is why spelling something the way it sounds is called "spelling something phonetically" (phoenetically ---> phoenician). This is one of the tenets of Western Archaeology, not really up for debate. But by all means, go ahead!

[Journeyman26]

What's 'phoenetic'?

phonetically ---> phoenetically... I added the 'e' to illustrate to non-english first language speakers the link between the English word "phonetically" and the Phoenicians from which the word gets its derivation. It describes spelling something the way it sounds, because the Phoenicians were the first to use a script that does this. But nice reductio ad absurdum attempt to dismiss my argument based on a spelling error. Homer would be proud. Before you say it come from the Greek word for sound, know that the Phoenicians influenced that too.

[Rethel]

61830

Greeks according to direct ancestors.
27% of IE, rest: I, J, E, G, T aso.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=61830&d=1473084895

[Hellenas]

61830

Greeks according to direct ancestors.
27% of IE, rest: I, J, E, G, T aso.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=61830&d=1473084895

Troll.

[Rethel]

Troll.

This, that this ilustaration doesn't fit to your deluded expectations, doesn't mean
that it is trolling. You like it or not, 27% of Y-DNA comes from IEs, and rest not.
And this is thread about greek's DNA, so it is not trolling, because it is on theme.

[Hellenas]

This, that this ilustaration doesn't fit to your deluded expectations, doesn't mean
that it is trolling. You like it or not, 27% of Y-DNA comes from IEs, and rest not.
And this is thread about greek's DNA, so it is not trolling, because it is on theme.

Deluded expectations? Ho, ho, ho who has, me or you?



Myth of the light pigmented "Nordic looking" Proto Indo-Europeans debunked.
http://archhades.blogspot.gr/2015/10/myth-of-light-pigmented-nordic-looking.html

The so-called Indo-Europeans that arrived into Europe from the Steppe region were not waves of depigmented peoples, that is a myth.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1851958&t=6194501

INDO-EUROPEANS
http://racialreality.altervista.org/indo_europeans.html

Neolithic farmers looked like south Europeans

http://racialreality.altervista.org/neolithic_files/neo-s.jpghttp://racialreality.altervista.org/neolithic_files/neo-t.jpg

http://racialreality.altervista.org/neolithic_files/neo-x.jpghttp://racialreality.altervista.org/neolithic_files/neo-u.jpg

http://racialreality.altervista.org/neolithic_files/neo-f.jpghttp://racialreality.altervista.org/neolithic_files/neo-d.jpg

NEOLITHIC FARMERS
http://racialreality.altervista.org/neolithic.html

How did the neolithic farmers look?
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1205655&t=5257118

Neolithic farmers from Greece and Anatolia
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1682690&t=5912197

[Sikeliot]

This, that this ilustaration doesn't fit to your deluded expectations, doesn't mean
that it is trolling. You like it or not, 27% of Y-DNA comes from IEs, and rest not.
And this is thread about greek's DNA, so it is not trolling, because it is on theme.

The difference is Greeks have Balkan specific subclades of J and E, that are not associated with MENA autosomal input.

[Rethel]

The difference is Greeks have Balkan specific subclades of J and E, that are not associated with MENA autosomal input.

Ok, but my picture is not about aDNA :)

[Sikeliot]

Ok, but my picture is not about aDNA :)

But autosomal DNA is what you need to refer to if making the claim a group is European or not.

[Rethel]

But autosomal DNA is what you need to refer to if making the claim a group is European or not.

I chose a slight part of all aDNA :p

Racially Greeks are in majority not so white as northern Europeans. Thats all what can be said.

[Sikeliot]

Greek is the genetic equivalent of being 3/4 Sicilian and 1/4 Russian. Doesn't seem MENA to me.

[Danishmend]

Greek is the genetic equivalent of being 3/4 Sicilian and 1/4 Russian. Doesn't seem MENA to me.

Then why the hell do Sicilians always appear in their top 3 oracle populations with very small distance? Not to mention the overlap between the two on PCAs. I know Greeks are a bit more north shifted but the distance is not as great as you try to portray it. You are so fucking annoying.

[Sikeliot]

Then why the hell do Sicilians always appear in their top 3 oracle populations with very small distance? Not to mention the overlap between the two on PCAs. I know Greeks are a bit more north shifted but the distance is not as great as you try to portray it. You are so fucking annoying.


Because the "Sicilian" samples on Eurogenes and other calculators always are from Syracuse and Trapani, the most north shifted regions. Go look at any result from Messina or Palermo and see how much further Greeks appear down on their list. This is no coincidence. Mainland Greeks DO NOT overlap on PCA plots with Sicilians.

[Danaan]

Because the "Sicilian" samples on Eurogenes and other calculators always are from Syracuse and Trapani, the most north shifted regions. Go look at any result from Messina or Palermo and see how much further Greeks appear down on their list. This is no coincidence. Mainland Greeks DO NOT overlap on PCA plots with Sicilians.

Many people in Crete and the Aegean shift more towards Anatolia than towards Sicily. Many Sicilians do not overlap at all with any Greeks, although all Greeks (even the northern shifted ones) are quite close to Sicilians and South Italians.

For some reason you want to present some Greeks as Sicilian-like (no one exactly is), while others as 'thoroughly Slavicized' which is also bs.

[Danishmend]

Because the "Sicilian" samples on Eurogenes and other calculators always are from Syracuse and Trapani, the most north shifted regions. Go look at any result from Messina or Palermo and see how much further Greeks appear down on their list. This is no coincidence. Mainland Greeks DO NOT overlap on PCA plots with Sicilians.

I have seen many Sicilians who get Greeks as 2nd or 3rd closest population in their individual results. How do you know that Sicilian samples in the spreadsheets are from "north shifted regions" In MDLP there are over 6-7 seperate Sicilian averages from different regions (East, West, Trapani, Syracuse etc) for example?

Mainland Greeks form a cluster between Sicilians and Tuscans, not "between Sicilians and Russians" as you try portray it.

[Sikeliot]

Many people in Crete and the Aegean shift more towards Anatolia than towards Sicily. Many Sicilians do not overlap at all with any Greeks, although all Greeks (even the northern shifted ones) are quite close to Sicilians and South Italians.

For some reason you want to present some Greeks as Sicilian-like (no one exactly is), while others as 'thoroughly Slavicized' which is also bs.


I am confused as to what you mean. Sicilians that do not overlap at all with any Greeks, which direction are they shifting in?

Some Sicilians seem to shift toward Cyprus and the Levant, not to Anatolia. Some island Greeks come up Sicilian + Armenian, but most Sicilians come up Greek + either Bedouin or North African Jewish, or Levant.

I just proved in another thread though that the Northern-shifted Greeks are shifting northeast toward Russia, Poland, etc.

[Sikeliot]

Mainland Greeks form a cluster between Sicilians and Tuscans, not "between Sicilians and Russians" as you try portray it.

Go here:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?187815-This-is-just-how-far-north-Greeks-plot-compared-to-Sicilians-results-to-prove

[Danaan]

I can't believe that people like you exist.

[Danishmend]

Go here:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?187815-This-is-just-how-far-north-Greeks-plot-compared-to-Sicilians-results-to-prove

I don't need your cherrypicked individual (look at the distance between him and Greek average, it's almost 10) results to have an idea about their genetic make up. I'm already a follower of different projects (and individual results through the forums). You can fool others though.


They don't seem to cluster where you would expect a 1/4 Russian 3/4 Sicilian/S.Italian person to cluster? Do they?

https://s28.postimg.io/enexkyzx9/pca_PL16.png
https://s28.postimg.io/llq5rb2hp/pca12comb_3.png
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/Kadu_album/West_Central_Eurasia.png

[Sikeliot]

I can't believe that people like you exist.


Excuse me?

If someone is 15% Russian and 85% Sicilian, and another is 15% Armenian and 85% Sicilian, the former will be further from Sicilians, because Armenians are much closer genetically to Sicilians than Russians are.

[Sikeliot]

They don't seem to cluster where you would expect a 1/4 Russian 3/4 Sicilian/S.Italian person to cluster? Do they?

https://s28.postimg.io/enexkyzx9/pca_PL16.png
https://s28.postimg.io/llq5rb2hp/pca12comb_3.png
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/Kadu_album/West_Central_Eurasia.png

Yes.

Look at the first plot and see where "South Italian" is. "Greek Thessaly" is roughly 1/4 of the way to Russia, and certainly halfway to Bulgaria.

The other plots seem to include a more southern-shifting sample of Greeks, so the difference is less prononced but you do see them shifting north of Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

Anyway no one answered -- these Sicilians not overlapping with Greeks, where are they then?

An Anatolian-shifted islander is not outside of the South Italian cluster, as you can find southern Italians shifting that way too. But a mainlander shifting further north will fall outside of the southern Italian cluster.

[Danishmend]

Yes.

Look at the first plot and see where "South Italian" is. "Greek Thessaly" is roughly 1/4 of the way to Russia, and certainly halfway to Bulgaria.

The other plots seem to include a more southern-shifting sample of Greeks, so the difference is less prononced but you do see them shifting north of Sicily.

Not even Greek_Thessaly who are the most north shifted Greek population seem to be 1/4 Russian 3/4 Sicilian, let alone Central_Greek and other Greek samples. The other plot is Greek average, which means it is not based on your cherrypicked individual results (with 9-10 distance to Greek average).

[Sikeliot]

You have not found a mainland Greek plotting in Sicily until you find one with less than 15% North European, and more than 10% SW Asian, and around 3-5% North African. This does not exist.

[Sikeliot]

Not even Greek_Thessaly who are the most north shifted Greek population seem to be 1/4 Russian 3/4 Sicilian, let alone Central_Greek and other Greek samples. The other plot is Greek average, which means it is not based on your cherrypicked individual results (with 9-10 distance to Greek average).

So where do you suggest Greeks plot relative to Sicilians then?

[Danishmend]

So where do you suggest Greeks plot relative to Sicilians then?

A bit more north-shifted, certainly not as much as you portray it. This is also what we see on PCAs anyway.

[Sikeliot]

A bit more north-shifted, certainly not as much as you portray it. This is also what we see on PCAs anyway.

Well it is roughly 10% more North European that makes the difference, and it shows in their genetics. Maybe it is necessary to show Sicilian results instead, and how many are closer to Moroccan Jews than to Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

I'm done beating around the bush and being nice about it. Sicilians are closer to Jews than to mainland Greeks, including Moroccan Jews, and no amount of wishing it away will erase your extra northern influences. I don't care what y'all think of it, you're wrong, the end.

[Danishmend]

I'm done beating around the bush and being nice about it. Sicilians are closer to Jews than to mainland Greeks, including Moroccan Jews, and no amount of wishing it away will erase your extra northern influences. I don't care what y'all think of it, you're wrong, the end.

North African (Moroccan etc) Jews in the spreadsheets are Sephardic exiles.

[Danaan]

@Sikieliot
You are either a troll or retarded or both. Stop talking about Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

@Sikieliot
You are either a troll or retarded or both. Stop talking about Greeks.

When you all stop denying you are a northward shifted population relative to Sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

North African (Moroccan etc) Jews in the spreadsheets are Sephardic exiles.

So? Still shows that Greeks plot north of Sicilians. Nothing will ever show otherwise for the vast majority of mainlanders who make up 90% of Greeks.

[Danaan]

Greeks don't care much about Sicilians.

Greeks are diverse. Pontian Greeks are Greeks. Cypriot Greeks are Greeks. Northern-shifting Greeks are Greeks too.
You aren't allowed to judge their greekness.

Northern admixture isn't necessarily 'Slavic'. Slavic admixture (while it exists) is unquantifiable.

[Sikeliot]

Greeks don't care much about Sicilians.

Greeks are diverse. Pontian Greeks are Greeks. Cypriot Greeks are Greeks. Northern-shifting Greeks are Greeks too.
You aren't allowed to judge their greekness.

Northern admixture isn't necessarily 'Slavic'. Slavic admixture (while it exists) is unquantifiable, especially by amateur trolls.

I still want you to clarify. You said some Sicilians do not plot near Greeks, so where do they plot?

I am done saying Slavic, I'll just say 90% of mainland Greeks plot NORTH of Sicilians.

[Hellenas]

Racially Greeks are in majority not so white as northern Europeans. Thats all what can be said.

That's all YOU can say and it's not true. Greeks have a small influence by Caucasoid Middle Easterners and your Northern Europeans from Asian Mongols and Siberians. I don't know who is more European, as if we have any competion here, but Northern Europeans are not fully Caucasoids like Greeks.

[Danaan]

All Sicilians are near Greeks but Cretans (for example) and Sicilians aren't the same genetically. Cretans are closer in your PCA plots to some Sicilians (many of them are from Catania?) but not very close to many others.

You present many Greeks as 'hellenized natives' and others as ''thouroughly Slavicized'.

Calling Pontian Greeks 'hellenized Armenians and Georgians' is offensive. Calling Greek Cypriots 'hellenized Levantines' is offensive. Calling 'mainland Greeks' 'thouroughly Slavicized' is offensive.
If you don't understand what is the problem I can't do anything.

Of course, there are various admixture events, ancient, medieval and modern in every country. I don't deny that. The generalizations are the problem.

[wvwvw]

I still want you to clarify. You said some Sicilians do not plot near Greeks, so where do they plot?

I am done saying Slavic, I'll just say 90% of mainland Greeks plot NORTH of Sicilians.

I keep saying Southern Italians, and you pretend I say Sicilians. Yes Greeks plot north of Sicilians, many mainland Greeks closer to Tuscans, but as a whole Greeks fall in between Tuscans and Sicilians.

Those Greeks include the Greeks from Asia Minor, as there is no such thing as "Anatolia Greek". Asia Minor coast was in constant exchange and interraction with mainland Greeks it has always been part of Greece. In other words it always had been as much Greek as Crete, Peloponnese or any other place of Greece. It was never isolated or cut off from the rest of Greece, that is why Greeks from there aren't different looking or darker in any way shape or form from other Greeks, the way Pontians and Cypriots were.

[Sikeliot]

I keep saying Southern Italians, and you pretend I say Sicilians. Yes Greeks plot north of Sicilians, many mainland Greeks closer to Tuscans, but as a whole Greeks fall in between Tuscans and Sicilians.


Ok, fair enough. But mainland southern Italians can and often plot south of Sicilians, shifted toward Cyprus. Calabria especially.

The point of what I am saying is that I do not care what is "offensive" I care what is true.

[wvwvw]

All Sicilians are near Greeks but Cretans (for example) and Sicilians aren't the same genetically. Cretans are closer in your PCA plots to some Sicilians (many of them are from Catania?) but not very close to many others.

You present many Greeks as 'hellenized natives' and others as ''thouroughly Slavicized'.

Calling Pontian Greeks 'hellenized Armenians and Georgians' is offensive. Calling Greek Cypriots 'hellenized Levantines' is offensive. Calling 'mainland Greeks' 'thouroughly Slavicized' is offensive.
If you don't understand what is the problem I can't do anything.

Of course, there are various admixture events, ancient, medieval and modern in every country. I don't deny that. The generalizations are the problem.

Cyprus has many exotic types that stand out very much in Greece. They're just Cypriots rather than Greeks. They are their own thing. Besides that's what themselves say.

[wvwvw]

Ok, fair enough. But mainland southern Italians can and often plot south of Sicilians, shifted toward Cyprus. Calabria especially.

The point of what I am saying is that I do not care what is "offensive" I care what is true.

Maybe so, but overall mainland southern Italians do NOT shift towards Cyprus.

[Danaan]

Raine, μη ξεχάσεις να παρεις τα χάπια σου.

[brennus dux gallorum]

http://i.imgur.com/BIMJlpt.png

this map can help some trolls who are looking for genetically bulgarian or MENA Greeks


I chose a slight part of all aDNA :p

Racially Greeks are in majority not so white as northern Europeans. Thats all what can be said.

if you mean scendinavians, genetically Greeks are as white as scandinavians, and from some aspects probably even more (see east asian admixture etc.)


@Sikieliot
You are either a troll or retarded or both. Stop talking about Greeks.

lol that's not something new

[Sikeliot]

this map can help some trolls who are looking for genetically bulgarian or MENA Greeks


Well it shows they range from being near Bulgarians to being at the bottom of the southern Italian cluster. This is what we have already known.

[Queen B]

Another 14 pages of idiotic comments and analysis . We are Greeks. Not [x]-ed Greeks, not Hellinized [x]
* enter ethnicity of your liking.
And the question is extremely stupid.

End of story.

[wvwvw]

Well it shows they range from being near Bulgarians to being at the bottom of the southern Italian cluster. This is what we have already known.

Just like Southern Italians who range from being near Tuscans to being the bottom of the Italian cluster.

[wvwvw]

Most of the studies you posted are so old or before the advent of DNA testing and modern technology. Some of them are also from Philhellene sources. I don't think they are reliable.

And I'm not anti-Greek. If to raise question about the supposed Greek racial purity makes me anti-Greek then so be it... :lol:

Thrax 80% of troll threads in the Greek section come from you. You thrive on this kind of threads. You also like to post misleading information, which makes you very much anti-Greek. You're a typical Fyromian in this aspect. You especially like to provoke Hellenas.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Well it shows they range from being near Bulgarians to being at the bottom of the southern Italian cluster. This is what we have already known.

Now buy some glasses to see better this "near" (espcially compare to geographical distance), and come back to comment

According to the map almost no Greek is closer to any bulgarian than to Tuscans, not even south italians

[Papastratosels26]

Predominatly European with a small pockets of MENA.

[CommonSense]

The MENA admixture in Greeks is mostly ancient. They are Europeans, as they always have been.