The Latest Blond Map of Europe

[Z211]

https://s6.postimg.io/kkupkjc5t/image.jpg

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

lol bullshit map

even most Swedes are not blond haired

[catgeorge]

umm western euros are mostly brown haired mate

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74081447/germans.PNG

[Loki]

https://s6.postimg.io/v3q3vypg1/image.jpg

France is blonder than Britain?

[Shepherd]

I love when the map has three colors and the key has two

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Slovakia,Hungary,Moldova,Southern France, Southern Ukraine,Ireland and Great Britain are blonde Europe

[meninodeengenho]

Most of British and French are Brown-haired. And North Italy isn't mosly blond-haired too.

[Profileid]

I love when the map has three colors and the key has two

woah it took me a sec to notice that. its kinda hard to tell the colors apart

[caviezel]

everything South of Berlin is mostly dark haired.

[Shepherd]

woah it took me a sec to notice that. its kinda hard to tell the colors apart

It was really clear on my screen cuz i use Flux so it made the difference more noticeable

When I turn it off the two definitely look more similar

[The Destroyer]

https://s6.postimg.io/v3q3vypg1/image.jpg

Why the fuck do you have 2 colors for dark (grey and purple)?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Why the fuck do you have 2 colors for dark (grey and purple)?

stop taking drugs

[Z211]

It was really clear on my screen cuz i use Flux so it made the difference more noticeable

When I turn it off the two definitely look more similar

It looks yellow and gray to me. Anyway lets get back on topic everybody

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

It looks yellow and gray to me. Anyway lets get back on topic everybody

You made a really stupid map.

[The Destroyer]

It looks yellow and gray to me. Anyway lets get back on topic everybody

We will not get back on topic. The Jewish God Yehova will punish you fro making this map

[Rugevit]

South and north Europeans have different perception about blindism. In Belarus a blond person who has literally white hair. South Europeans tend to label blond those who are fairer than them. It can be a person whit light brown hair and grey eyes. Non-Europeans consider most Europeans blond.

As an example this Belarusian woman would not be considered blond in Belarus.


http://s9.postimg.org/whdtuf35b/3_Bjt_HQHt3_Y.jpg

[catgeorge]

South and north Europeans have different perception about blindism. In Belarus a blond person who has literally white hair. South Europeans tend to label blond those who are fairer than them. It can be a person whit light brown hair and grey eyes. Non-Europeans consider most Europeans blond.

As an example this Belarusian woman would not be considered blond in Belarus.


http://s9.postimg.org/whdtuf35b/3_Bjt_HQHt3_Y.jpg

South europeans do not consider these people as blondes that is brown hair. i have similar colour and do not consider myself blonde

[Rugevit]

South europeans do not consider these people as blondes that is brown hair. i have similar colour and do not consider myself blonde

I read many south Europeans who consider people blond of fair complexion. Those people who have lighter skin, eyes, hair than southern Europeans.

[catgeorge]

I read many south Europeans who consider people blond of fair complexion. Those people who have lighter skin, eyes, hair than southern Europeans.

Obviously you have not travelled much I am right to assume this, right?

[Rugevit]

Obviously you have not travelled much I am right to assume this, right?

I have traveled a fair bit.

[catgeorge]

I have traveled a fair bit.

Wow ok. enjoy buddy.

[Rugevit]

Wow ok. enjoy buddy.

What do I have to enjoy? Your approval?

Ask any person living in northern Europe who has interest in physical anthropology, he or she will tell you regular south Europeans have different perception about what constitutes to blondism. This is not even debatable.

[catgeorge]

What do I have to enjoy? Your approval?

Ask any person living in northern Europe who has interest in physical anthropology, he or she will tell you regular south Europeans have different perception about what constitutes to blondism. This is not even debatable.

Sure thing. :thumb001:

[Z211]

What do I have to enjoy? Your approval?

Ask any person living in northern Europe who has interest in physical anthropology, he or she will tell you regular south Europeans have different perception about what constitutes to blondism. This is not even debatable.

Who do you consider south Europeans?

[Hellenas]

As an example this Belarusian woman would not be considered blond in Belarus.


http://s9.postimg.org/whdtuf35b/3_Bjt_HQHt3_Y.jpg

I don't know for other south euros but Greeks may call this hair color as blond but they know it is brown-blond.

[Loki]

It was really clear on my screen cuz i use Flux so it made the difference more noticeable

When I turn it off the two definitely look more similar

What colours do you see? I can see white (Africa), grey and yellow. But I'm colourblind so I don't know for sure. :confused:

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

What colours do you see? I can see white (Africa), grey and yellow. But I'm colourblind so I don't know for sure. :confused:

that's what I'm seein

[Shepherd]

What colours do you see? I can see white (Africa), grey and yellow. But I'm colourblind so I don't know for sure. :confused:

If you look closely dark hair in western Europe is grey but dark hair in Italy and eastern Europe is pinkish grey

And yeah Africa is white, didnt even notice that lol

[Rugevit]

I don't know for other south euros but Greeks may call this hair color as blond but they know it is brown-blond.


On many maps Belarusians are placed as people having a high frequency of blondism. I don't think we're as blond as many people perceive us. Most Belarusians have light brown hair, light skin and light eye colour - usually gray, blue or green. Dark eye colour is uncommon among our people. As a common saying goes in our culture – dark eyes cannot be trusted. ;)


Belarusian girls on the left and on the right will be considered blond in Belarus.





http://s24.postimg.org/j2u062mlx/16616.jpg

[Hellenas]

As a common saying goes in our culture – dark eyes cannot be trusted. ;) .

As in our Greek culture that the blue eye= evil eye.

[The Blade]

Bullshit map! Italy blonder than Croatia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria - no way! France blonder than Britain - definitely no. Most Brits and French have brown hair. I doubt that even among Scandos blonde variations make more than 50%.
Blondest people are probably Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians (from what I have seen).

[Petalpusher]

Closer to reality

https://s3.postimg.io/ifdn0zu3n/Europe_hair0223_light_h.png



There's even a good enough relationship specifically for pure blue eyes with the mesolithic admixture of each region
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0d/e1/38/0de138c90ab41ff5f0c47b12070bf034.jpg

[cosmoo]

Closer to reality
[/IMG]

Nonsense maps. Ireland should be more (pure) blue-eyed, than, for example, Scandos or Balts, where grey eyes are more common. Map for red hair is also especially shitty. Looks like Eupedia crap.

[Ülev]

where is that map with "Stears" - only this map is accurate!

[Ülev]

where is that map with "Stears" - only this map is accurate!

I found it: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118110-Portusaus-or-Australian-Aborigine-Who-is-whiter

http://oi57.tinypic.com/dczc4m.jpg

[Petalpusher]

Nonsense maps. Ireland should be more (pure) blue-eyed, than, for example, Scandos or Balts, where grey eyes are more common. Map for red hair is also especially shitty. Looks like Eupedia crap.

Ireland has a lot of steppe and relatively not that much WHG, the steppe wasn't as blue eyed as the mesolithic (nearly 100%), they still have a lot of light eyes. Yes everything makes sense on these maps but you can prefer any other you like.

The stears map is of course untouchable.

[Ibericus]

Seems like another italian sock puppet.

[Shelby]

Why is UK dark?

[cosmoo]

Ireland has a lot of steppe and relatively not that much WHG, the steppe wasn't as blue eyed as the mesolithic (nearly 100%), they still have a lot of light eyes. Yes everything makes sense on these maps but you can prefer any other you like.

The stears map is of course untouchable.

Oh, I forgot you are some kind of "muh dodekad kalkulator" dude just like XenophobicPrussian. For your information, Ireland is as blue-eyed as blondest parts of Scandinavia, and it has much more CM phenotypes than your "most WHG countries" (Baltics, which very rarely have unreduced CM types):

In the proportion of pure light eyes, Ireland competes successfully with the blondest regions of Scandinavia. Over 46 per cent of the total group has pure light eyes, and of these all but 4 per cent are blue. Very light-mixed eyes (equivalent to Martin #13-14) account for another 30 per cent, while less than one-half of one per cent have pure brown. There is probably no population of equal size in the world which is lighter eyed, and blue eyed, than the Irish.
(C.S. Coon, "The Races of Europe", Chapter X, section 2)

So yeah, your "genetics" don't really agree on hard anthropological facts.

BTW map of red hair also totally sucks. It is basically just more or less map copying R1b concentration. And we know that red hair comes from paleolithic Europeans, and not R1b carriers, so it's utterly stupid map.

[Petalpusher]

Oh, I forgot you are some kind of "muh dodekad kalkulator" dude just like XenophobicPrussian. For your information, Ireland is as blue-eyed as blondest parts of Scandinavia, and it has much more CM phenotypes than your "most WHG countries" (Baltics, which very rarely have unreduced CM types):

In the proportion of pure light eyes, Ireland competes successfully with the blondest regions of Scandinavia. Over 46 per cent of the total group has pure light eyes, and of these all but 4 per cent are blue. Very light-mixed eyes (equivalent to Martin #13-14) account for another 30 per cent, while less than one-half of one per cent have pure brown. There is probably no population of equal size in the world which is lighter eyed, and blue eyed, than the Irish.
(C.S. Coon, "The Races of Europe", Chapter X, section 2)

So yeah, your "genetics" don't really agree on hard anthropological facts.

BTW map of red hair also totally sucks. It is basically just more or less map copying R1b concentration. And we know that red hair comes from paleolithic Europeans, and not R1b carriers, so it's utterly stupid map.

Oh fuck off with your 1939 book. What's next, earth is flat too.



The red hair matches the dna datas, UK has the most R151C. +1 million samples from 23andme, you know real people with real genes, not grandpa Coon with his pen doing tourism in Europe. Irish have loads of light eyes, just not as much blue eyes, still 10 times more than Montenegro.

https://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Red_hair_map.jpg

[Danishmend]

I don't know for other south euros but Greeks may call this hair color as blond but they know it is brown-blond.

That would not be called blonde. Stop trying to wogify Greece.

[cosmoo]

Oh fuck off with your 1939 book. What's next, earth is flat too.



The red hair matches the dna datas, UK has the most R151C. +1 million samples from 23andme, you know real people with real genes, not grandpa Coon with his pen doing tourism in Europe. Irish have loads of light eyes, just not as much blue eyes, still 10 times more than Montenegro.

https://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Red_hair_map.jpg

"Grandpa Coon doing his pen tourism"... He used his own data as well as data of other anthropologists, he never used one source to write about particular country. You are one of those "I think I'm soooo intelligent because I follow modern science" men. What's next, you're going to tell me we all came from Africa, just because mainstream genetics say it? xD

Your "genetics" are nonsensical. I've seen data showing 10% of Orcadians don't have light skin genes. This is utter crap, since they (along with Irish) are lightest-skinned people on whole world. It also says UP/Mesolithic Europeans were dark-skinned, even though people of UP phenotypes are today lightest-skinned in whole Europe.

Furthermore, your "genetics" say, for example, that Upper Palaeolithic Europeans are super-wogs, while Mesolithic Europeans are "100% European", despite the fact that later are completely descended from former, despite the fact that they have exactly same phenotypes (phenotype variations in UP-Mesolithic Europeans(excluding easternmost Europe), a period that lasted 35.000+ years, are less than in any population that has lived in Europe ever since), and despite the fact that they have same Y-DNA and mtDNA.
Another perfect example of "sense" your "genetics" make.

Anyways, IDK why you turn it to personal thing like "you guys have 10 times less blue eyes". Firstly, that is not true, and secondly, even if it was, I don't care about it, because it makes no relevance to our discussion at all.
Also, neither Dodecad nor any other aDNA database has data of any of my countrymen that are declared as Montenegrin, and 23andme maps you posted don't list stats for us. Anthropology already proved we are much more rufous than, for example, any other Slavic or eastern/NE Euro country, so it's pointless to argue about.

The rufosity of the Montenegrins, and their tendency to golden blondism, is not only extreme, but is particularly unusual for this part of Europe. It will be recalled that the Serbians, traditionally close relatives of the Montenegrins, are much darker haired, and that the Slavs in general, when blond, favor the ash-blond side of the scale, being almost entirely deficient in rufosity.

-TRoE, chapter XII, section 12

Sources on this quoted by Coon:
-Robert W. Ehrich series of 800 Montenegrins from 1932
-Haberlandt, A., and Lebzelter, V., AFA, vol. 45, 1919, pp. 123-154.
-Males, B., AnthPr, vol. 9, 1931, pp. 125-145.
-Pittard, E., RDAP, vol. 26, 1916, pp. 199-201.
-Valsik, J., PAn, vol. 8,1934, pp. 53-55.
-Vram, U., ASRA, vol. 11, 1905, pp. 183-193.

[Damião de Góis]

There's even a good enough relationship specifically for pure blue eyes with the mesolithic admixture of each region
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0d/e1/38/0de138c90ab41ff5f0c47b12070bf034.jpg


The red hair matches the dna datas, UK has the most R151C. +1 million samples from 23andme, you know real people with real genes, not grandpa Coon with his pen doing tourism in Europe. Irish have loads of light eyes, just not as much blue eyes, still 10 times more than Montenegro.

https://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Red_hair_map.jpg

I think i've seen enough red hair here to know it's not 0% or has iranian levels of frequency. I guess the same applies to Spain.

[Ibericus]

There's plenty more genes involved in red-hair, not just those three.

[Petalpusher]

"Grandpa Coon doing his pen tourism"... He used his own data as well as data of other anthropologists, he never used one source to write about particular country. You are one of those "I think I'm soooo intelligent because I follow modern science" men. What's next, you're going to tell me we all came from Africa, just because mainstream genetics say it? xD

Your "genetics" are nonsensical. I've seen data showing 10% of Orcadians don't have light skin genes. This is utter crap, since they (along with Irish) are lightest-skinned people on whole world. It also says UP/Mesolithic Europeans were dark-skinned, even though people of UP phenotypes are today lightest-skinned in whole Europe.

Furthermore, your "genetics" say, for example, that Upper Palaeolithic Europeans are super-wogs, while Mesolithic Europeans are "100% European", despite the fact that later are completely descended from former, despite the fact that they have exactly same phenotypes (phenotype variations in UP-Mesolithic Europeans(excluding easternmost Europe), a period that lasted 35.000+ years, are less than in any population that has lived in Europe ever since), and despite the fact that they have same Y-DNA and mtDNA.
Another perfect example of "sense" your "genetics" make.

Anyways, IDK why you turn it to personal thing like "you guys have 10 times less blue eyes". Firstly, that is not true, and secondly, even if it was, I don't care about it, because it makes no relevance to our discussion at all.
Also, neither Dodecad nor any other aDNA database has data of any of my countrymen that are declared as Montenegrin, and 23andme maps you posted don't list stats for us. Anthropology already proved we are much more rufous than, for example, any other Slavic or eastern/NE Euro country, so it's pointless to argue about.

If you understood anything about genetic you would know light skin developped mostly after the mesolithic. Mesolithic had blue eyes and CM features, which is a lot more complicated and relevant ethnically than a few genes for pigmentation, you should all print this in your heads. The fact they had all blue eyes doesn't make them more mesolithic, they just all had this distinct feature starting from about 10k. Paleolithic have been replaced by a group in the late upper Paleo, the Villabrunians, who started to have blue eyes as early as 15 000 years ago. Modern Europeans have acquired different features by the 3 man groups that formed Europe in the last 15ky and are predominently a mix of meso and neo + additional steppe. Since we are all to different degrees a mix of those 3 we tend to have features from all of them combined, specially when selection started to go to work and agriculture, change of diet, etc..

There are many light skin genes. Some just give you skin cancer... hopefully plenty of euro, even Orcadians don't have all of them, but overwhelmingly we do have the main light skin genes today.

Same Y-DNA since the Paleolithic, in what alternate history? Let me guess you are l2. Of course if you think there hasn't been any OOA nor ENA, this isn't worth discussing anything.

[TheForeigner]

Northern and Central Italians are mostly light haired? LOL

[Myanthropologies]

I think i've seen enough red hair here to know it's not 0% or has iranian levels of frequency. I guess the same applies to Spain.

They dont have actual statistics from Iranians or other groups in that area. Some isolate tribes and groups have more light hair and eyes than Portuguese do.

[Hellenas]

That would not be called blonde. Stop trying to wogify Greece.

What? I don't try anything, you are the one who ignore what Greeks call blond.

This Greek man is called "ho xanthos" by Greeks, which means the blond.

http://content-mcdn.imerisia.gr/filesystem/images/20110211/low/2009080302143_104007336.jpg

[MinervaItalica]

Seems like another italian sock puppet.

You're simply paranoid, you are only able to blame and accuse random trolls to be Italians...


Bullshit map! Italy blonder than Croatia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria - no way! France blonder than Britain - definitely no. Most Brits and French have brown hair. I doubt that even among Scandos blonde variations make more than 50%.
Blondest people are probably Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians (from what I have seen).

You're talking like it would hurt your life... c'mon it's just a map...

[alnortedelsur]

Bull shitty map. If with dark hair they mean black jet hair, nowhere in Europe black jet hair is majority, and nowhere in Europe blond hair is majority (no even in Sweden).

In all Europe most people have different tones of brownish hair colors, and all European countries have decent amounts of people with blondish hair tones, but with higher incidence in northern countries, and lower incidence in southern countries. That's it.

[alnortedelsur]

I think i've seen enough red hair here to know it's not 0% or has iranian levels of frequency. I guess the same applies to Spain.

Indeed. And I have the impression (though I might be wrong) that Iberians have higher rates of red hair than other southern Europeans, for being the southern Europeans who are geographically closer to British Islands (the focus with the highest frequency of red hair) than other southern European countries.

[Petalpusher]

They dont have actual statistics from Iranians or other groups in that area. Some isolate tribes and groups have more light hair and eyes than Portuguese do.

But you have conducted your own study of course. Can we see the results?

[Ibericus]

You're simply paranoid, you are only able to blame and accuse random trolls to be Italians.....
No, it's not paranoid. Only a italian sock puppet would put north-italians lighter haired than British.

[MinervaItalica]

No, it's not paranoid. Only a italian sock puppet would put north-italians lighter haired than British.

Give it a break with your bullshit paranoia. You don't even have proves...

[XenophobicPrussian]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?187605-Still-the-most-comprehensive-study-on-European-pigmentation-to-date&p=3888529#post3888529

[XenophobicPrussian]

Bullshit map! Italy blonder than Croatia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria - no way! France blonder than Britain - definitely no. Most Brits and French have brown hair. I doubt that even among Scandos blonde variations make more than 50%.
Blondest people are probably Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians (from what I have seen).
Well obviously it's a bullshit map, it's a troll attempt.

You're wrong about Baltic people though, eastern European peaking blondism is a myth. Estonians are up there though, but they have heavy Scandinavian or proto-Scandinavian admixture. Lithuania actually doesn't even make the top 9 in light eyes, and it'd be 11 if you counted North Germany and the northern Netherlands. Quite odd considering Lithuanians have the most WHG(but it's the ANE, of course, you can see in Russian Volga/Uralic minority groups where ANE peaks that they have low light pigmentation and are mostly WHG+ANE, with some Mongoloid but only double that of Finns who are still the lightest, and they also have little farmer/CHG).

[cosmoo]

If you understood anything about genetic you would know light skin developped mostly after the mesolithic. Mesolithic had blue eyes and CM features, which is a lot more complicated and relevant ethnically than a few genes for pigmentation, you should all print this in your heads. The fact they had all blue eyes doesn't make them more mesolithic, they just all had this distinct feature starting from about 10k. Paleolithic have been replaced by a group in the late upper Paleo, the Villabrunians, who started to have blue eyes as early as 15 000 years ago. Modern Europeans have acquired different features by the 3 man groups that formed Europe in the last 15ky and are predominently a mix of meso and neo + additional steppe. Since we are all to different degrees a mix of those 3 we tend to have features from all of them combined, specially when selection started to go to work and agriculture, change of diet, etc..

There are many light skin genes. Some just give you skin cancer... hopefully plenty of euro, even Orcadians don't have all of them, but overwhelmingly we do have the main light skin genes today.

Same Y-DNA since the Paleolithic, in what alternate history? Let me guess you are l2. Of course if you think there hasn't been any OOA nor ENA, this isn't worth discussing anything.
I do also think that CM features of theirs in general matter much more than pigmentation, don't try to misinterpret me. What I was telling was that, according to your "genetics", Upper Palaeolithic Europeans were basically wogs, while Mesolithic Europeans were "100% true Europeans", even though they both had same CM phenotypes. That's how much sense your "genetics" make.

When I said that Mesolithic Europeans had same y-DNA as UP Euros, I meant that their haplogroups generally descended from I (sometimes even I* or IJ*) found in Palaeolithic samples, not that their subclades stayed exactly same (without mutations) from UP to Mesolithic, lol. Throw in a bit of C found in UP/Meso samples as well...

And BTW, while we're still on it, many countries that are said to have highest WHG (Balts) are very, very low in unreduced CM types. They have some CM over Baltid type, but there are no true unreduced CMs there. Not only they don't have metrically unreduced UP men in sizeable amount, but even their pigmentation is not really UP (deficiency in rufosity, ashen shades of brown and blonde hair dominate, grey eyes significantly more frequent over blue, etc).
So if you really believe that men that have no unreduced UP/Mesolithic types are most similar to UP Europeans, then I have nothing more to say to you.

[Ongatkha]

Useless map..

[EL_BARBARO]

I can't express the emotion I feel before of this marvellous latest blond map of Europe.

It's kind of indescribable...

[XenophobicPrussian]

I do also think that CM features of theirs in general matter much more than pigmentation, don't try to misinterpret me. What I was telling was that, according to your "genetics", Upper Palaeolithic Europeans were basically wogs, while Mesolithic Europeans were "100% true Europeans", even though they both had same CM phenotypes. That's how much sense your "genetics" make.

When I said that Mesolithic Europeans had same y-DNA, I meant that their haplogroups generally descended from I (sometimes even I* or IJ*) found in Palaeolithic samples, not that their subclades stayed exactly same (without mutations) from UP to Mesolithic, lol.

And BTW, while we're still on it, many countries that are said to have highest WHG (Balts) are very, very low in unreduced CM types. They have some CM over Baltid type, but there are no true unreduced CMs there. Not only they don't have metrically unreduced UP men in sizeable amount, but even their pigmentation is not really UP (deficiency in rufosity, ashen shades of brown and blonde hair dominate, grey eyes significantly more frequent over blue, etc).
So if you really believe that men that have no unreduced UP/Mesolithic types are most similar to UP Europeans, then I have nothing more to say to you.
Anywhere today that has an high number of CM influenced people is because they ate more fucking meat, not because of any genetic legacy.

UP Euros and WHGs did not have the same skulls, many were described as Oceanian-like, with some as Norse-like. Almost all WHG skulls were described as Norse-like, which indicates the genetic drift/evolution away from archaic human DNA that did happen.

You have no fucking data on UP pigmentation other than the recent genetic studies, the senile Coon had no way of telling pigmentation from UP fossils, he just based it on where they peaked in modern populations, which is inaccurate because those features could've evolved way later. UP pigmentation was dark skin, dark eyes, black hair, no "rufosity, ashen shades of brown/blonde, grey eyes).

[Myanthropologies]

But you have conducted your own study of course. Can we see the results?

No, but these maps are biased because they tend to only focus on "European" countries, with the exception of caucasians, who even they have more than South europeans lol. If melanesians were on this map they'd out blonde a lot of these Europeans.

[Damião de Góis]

They dont have actual statistics from Iranians or other groups in that area. Some isolate tribes and groups have more light hair and eyes than Portuguese do.

I have my doubts about that. Not that i don't believe that iranians can have light hair or eyes but i don't think you know the portuguese population well enough to make that comparison.
Especially in the case of red hair, i would be surprised.

[Myanthropologies]

I have my doubts about that. Not that i don't believe that iranians can have light hair or eyes but i don't think you know the portuguese population well enough to make that comparison.
Especially in the case of red hair, i would be surprised.

North Iranians have lots of light hair and eyes. And even some eastern ones do. Not to mention many tribes of Afghans that have red/blonde hair often. These areas are highly understudied. Of course western european and northeastern european groups have more, but southern Europeans don't have much more. Even Chechens and Georgians are more light haired and eyed than the south Europeans. Maybe spanish and Portuguese are an exception, but idk.

[Myanthropologies]

Spanish and Portuguese are only geographically southern european imo. Phenotypically and genetically, theyre in between South and Central/Western Euros.

[Damião de Góis]

North Iranians have lots of light hair and eyes. And even some eastern ones do. Not to mention many tribes of Afghans that have red/blonde hair often. These areas are highly understudied. Of course western european and northeastern european groups have more, but southern Europeans don't have much more. Even Chechens and Georgians are more light haired and eyed than the Portuguese.

If they have lots, can i see pictures then? Could you post let's say 20 iranians with light hair or eyes with their names so that we could see they were iranian? I could easilly do the same.
Why don't we do from 20 to 20? According to what you are saying i would run out of pictures very quickly.
Feel free to start on a new thread.

[Myanthropologies]

If they have lots, can i see pictures then? Could you post let's say 20 iranians with light hair or eyes with their names so that we could see they were iranian? I could easilly do the same.
Why don't we do from 20 to 20? According to what you are saying i would run out of pictures very quickly.
Feel free to start on a new thread.

I'm not trying to prove anything, even though I could do what you're asking. I edited my last post. I forgot that the Portuguese are like the Spanish, who are very Northern shifted South europeans. I mainly meant Italians, Greeks, Maltese, etc

[XenophobicPrussian]

I'm not trying to prove anything, even though I could do what you're asking. I edited my last post. I forgot that the Portuguese are like the Spanish, who are very Northern shifted South europeans. I mainly meant Italians, Greeks, Maltese, etc
North Caucasus people are lighter eyed than Portuguese, southern Italians, Albanians, Greeks. Iranians, including only northern Iranians, just no.

[Damião de Góis]

I'm not trying to prove anything, even though I could do what you're asking. I edited my last post. I forgot that the Portuguese are like the Spanish, who are very Northern shifted South europeans. I mainly meant Italians, Greeks, Maltese, etc

Not really, south slavs are more northern shifted.
And i think italians and greeks could easilly do the same. I find it hard to believe iranians have more light featured people than any southern europeans.

[Myanthropologies]

North Caucasus people are lighter eyed than Portuguese, southern Italians, Albanians, Greeks. Iranians, including only northern Iranians, just no.

Northern Iranians are on par with those groups on light hair and eyes rates, besides the portuguese. This doesn't mean that iranians are just as "white" as those groups, but they have the same amounts of light hair and light eyes.

In one study, Pamiri Tajiks alone had like 15% light hair and light eyes. If you combine that with other genetically Afghan populations, such as Pashtuns, Nuristanis, etc who also have high rates of red/blonde sometimes, that would probably be greater than 20%.

[Übermensch]

South and north Europeans have different perception about blindism. In Belarus a blond person who has literally white hair. South Europeans tend to label blond those who are fairer than them. It can be a person whit light brown hair and grey eyes. Non-Europeans consider most Europeans blond.

As an example this Belarusian woman would not be considered blond in Belarus.



How do you call this hair colour in Belarus?

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10734056_835583579839659_2166612716137807245_n.jpg ?oh=eee3ea6412f377413e268def235d6a8f&oe=5848B98E

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11074174_898293920235291_3375943218448679270_n.jpg ?oh=7665ceab70170b5fc05304c98c65a04a&oe=5883CD86

[caviezel]

not sure about Sweden, but in Norway only 50% of adult males have fair hair and that also includes light brown.
this map apparently says Norway is blonder than Sweden so make your own conclusions.

http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/rastyper-karta04.jpg

[cosmoo]

Anywhere today that has an high number of CM influenced people is because they ate more fucking meat, not because of any genetic legacy.

UP Euros and WHGs did not have the same skulls, many were described as Oceanian-like, with some as Norse-like. Almost all WHG skulls were described as Norse-like, which indicates the genetic drift/evolution away from archaic human DNA that did happen.

You have no fucking data on UP pigmentation other than the recent genetic studies, the senile Coon had no way of telling pigmentation from UP fossils, he just based it on where they peaked in modern populations, which is inaccurate because those features could've evolved way later. UP pigmentation was dark skin, dark eyes, black hair, no "rufosity, ashen shades of brown/blonde, grey eyes).

:rofl:
CM types because of high meat consumption? Please, tell me you're joking. Diet full of meat can only cause enlargement of masticatory muscles, but can not in any way influence skull.
I don't think western Irish, for example, had diet full of meat. We also ate mostly maize bread and diary products, meat was not eaten very often.
Try to lie better mate. Last time you said we look CM because of CHG genes (LOL).

UP Euros and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers did have more or less same skulls. "Oceanian-like", "Norse-like", what the fuck are you blabbering about? Norsemen were mix of various types, with Nordid being basic type in most places, while CM is present mostly in isolated areas of western Norway, and in parts of Denmark. "Norse-like" Mesolithic Europeans? xD

As a matter of fact, even your "genetics" confirms UP Europeans were in majority dark-haired, with occasional red hair (and all shades in between), just like Coon has said. Oldest find of red hair is in one of Goyet samples, which is around 26.000 years old.

Now, isn't it painfully obvious that CM-specific pigmentation appears everywhere where we have lots of unreduced CM types, but not in your beloved Balts, who also lack unreduced CM metric traits?
Maybe you will say now that rufosity is gained by eating meat? xD

[dddcc]

Northern Iranians are on par with those groups on light hair and eyes rates, besides the portuguese. This doesn't mean that iranians are just as "white" as those groups, but they have the same amounts of light hair and light eyes.

In one study, Pamiri Tajiks alone had like 15% light hair and light eyes. If you combine that with other genetically Afghan populations, such as Pashtuns, Nuristanis, etc who also have high rates of red/blonde sometimes, that would probably be greater than 20%.
What do you mean by North-Iranians?
If you mean people from North Iran then they definitely have way less light hair&eyes than Southern-Europeans.
But if you mean Pamiris then it's OK (however Pamiris dont make even 1% of Iranian peoples)

[XenophobicPrussian]

:rofl:
CM types because of high meat consumption? Please, tell me you're joking. Diet full of meat can only cause enlargement of masticatory muscles, but can not in any way influence skull.
I don't think western Irish, for example, had diet full of meat. We also ate mostly maize bread and diary products, meat was not eaten very often.
Try to lie better mate. Last time you said we look CM because of CHG genes (LOL).

UP Euros and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers did have more or less same skulls. "Oceanian-like", "Norse-like", what the fuck are you blabbering about? Norsemen were mix of various types, with Nordid being basic type in most places, while CM is present mostly in isolated areas of western Norway, and in parts of Denmark. "Norse-like" Mesolithic Europeans? xD

As a matter of fact, even your "genetics" confirms UP Europeans were in majority dark-haired, with occasional red hair (and all shades in between), just like Coon has said. Oldest find of red hair is in one of Goyet samples, which is around 26.000 years old.

Now, isn't it painfully obvious that CM-specific pigmentation appears everywhere where we have lots of unreduced CM types, but not in your beloved Balts, who also lack unreduced CM metric traits?
Maybe you will say now that rufosity is gained by eating meat? xD
It's well known gracilization is caused by an adaptation to eating less meat/farming you twat, along with mild vs cold climate. Of course "Norse-like" Mesolithic Europeans, your own Coon said that's where most UP types are.

http://i33.tinypic.com/281yg5k.jpg

I said you SE Europeans look CM because of CHG genes, not "we" as a whole. The typical Scandinavian Borreby, Faelid or Irish Brunn are the only CM phenotypes, and even they are largely reduced and further evolved(such as pigmentation, height, reduction in robustness, etc).

Yes, UP Europeans were dark-haired(not majority, but almost 100%, there was only 1 red haired guy), and 100% dark eyed and dark skinned. That's not what you said.

What fucking beloved Balts? Amerindian-esque Balts can fuck off just like you Natufian farmer Montenegrins.

[cosmoo]

It's well known gracilization is caused by an adaptation to eating less meat/farming you twat, along with mild vs cold climate. Of course "Norse-like" Mesolithic Europeans, your own Coon said that's where most UP types are.
From this it can clearly be seen that you know nothing about anthropology. For you, like for most of other anthroforum retards, CM type is all about "robustness". :picard2:
Proto-Nordid skulls from easternmost Europe/western Asia belonged to hunter-gatherers living under cold conditions, but guess what? They were not CM metrically. CM types are defined by characteristics well beyond "gracile/robust" thingy (like lambdoidal flattening, square and low orbits, wide bigonal and byzigomatic, great cranial capacity, and many, many more).

And this photo with "Norse-like" designation for Mesolithic Europeans is not even from Coon's work. You can clearly see that it is some dude's comparison with Howells series from 1989, and Coon was not even alive then. So fucking stupid...



I said you SE Europeans look CM because of CHG genes, not "we" as a whole. The typical Scandinavian Borreby, Faelid or Irish Brunn are the only CM phenotypes, and even they are largely reduced and further evolved(such as pigmentation, height, reduction in robustness, etc).
When I said we, I referred to my people, not others, so piss off. No SE Europeans other than us have CM types in sizeable amount (actually no other Europeans at all outside NW Atlantic fringes and Fehmarn Islanders), so you're wrong again.
And when you equated our CM look with CHG genes, you basically said that we "got robusticity from CHG", ignoring bulk of other anthropometric traits that make us close to UP/Meso Europeans, again showing your utterly poor knowledge of anthropology. CM-like types were never recorded among Caucasians.

Who are you to decide which are "real CM types" and which are not? Why should I believe you, a man who shows his ignorance and stupidity with every post, over experienced anthropologists who say our phenotypes are clearly affiliated to unreduced UP European types?

"The Old Montenegrin type, concentrated in the southwestern mountain fringe of Montenegro, just north of the Lake of Scutari, in the most conservative part of the kingdom culturally, and the ethnic center of the Montenegrin nation, is nothing more nor less than a local unreduced brachycephalized Upper Palaeolithic survival or reemergence[...]"

BTW, modern CM types are actually not much "reduced" when compared to UP Europeans.



Yes, UP Europeans were dark-haired(not majority, but almost 100%, there was only 1 red haired guy), and 100% dark eyed and dark skinned. That's not what you said.
Many others tested had several, but not all of genes for rufosity, which means they were partially rufous and may have exibited traits such as freckled skin, reddish-brown hair and beard, etc. Anyways, your "genetics" has not advanced enough to accurately judge pigmentation of UP Europeans. You yourself said once that 10% of Orcadians (among lightest-skinned men on earth) don't have genes for light skin, and that Italians have more blue eyes than them according to variations of OCA2 gene. Both of those things are far from reality, which shows how capable your pseudo-genetics are.



What fucking beloved Balts? Amerindian-esque Balts can fuck off just like you Natufian farmer Montenegrins.

You said that Balts are "genetically" most CM lots of times, and tried to cherrypick some of them that could fit anthropologically fit as unreduced CM, but it didn't work out best for you.

But anyways, this statement just shows how sick and deluded with your pseudo-genetic stuff you are.

[Petalpusher]

I do also think that CM features of theirs in general matter much more than pigmentation, don't try to misinterpret me. What I was telling was that, according to your "genetics", Upper Palaeolithic Europeans were basically wogs, while Mesolithic Europeans were "100% true Europeans", even though they both had same CM phenotypes. That's how much sense your "genetics" make.

When I said that Mesolithic Europeans had same y-DNA as UP Euros, I meant that their haplogroups generally descended from I (sometimes even I* or IJ*) found in Palaeolithic samples, not that their subclades stayed exactly same (without mutations) from UP to Mesolithic, lol. Throw in a bit of C found in UP/Meso samples as well...

And BTW, while we're still on it, many countries that are said to have highest WHG (Balts) are very, very low in unreduced CM types. They have some CM over Baltid type, but there are no true unreduced CMs there. Not only they don't have metrically unreduced UP men in sizeable amount, but even their pigmentation is not really UP (deficiency in rufosity, ashen shades of brown and blonde hair dominate, grey eyes significantly more frequent over blue, etc).
So if you really believe that men that have no unreduced UP/Mesolithic types are most similar to UP Europeans, then I have nothing more to say to you.

When i look at more recent meso skulls i still see various European faces, when i look at Vestonice for example im not so sure... and they indeed were different genetically, less removed from archaic pop as you go back in time. Of course there is up to 40ky difference between the paleo and the meso, we juggle with tens of thousands of years like it's nothing. I can only suggest you actually read the Lazardis 2016 and Ice Age Europe, the whole pdf.

Balts have the highest mesolithic, it's still not much more than 50% of their genetic, they also have high ANE, we don't know exactly how they looked like, we only have a 32K boy to base our assumptions and genetic that puts them somewhere between WHG and Paleo Indian. You cannot suppose Balts should be exactly like the 100% meso, they are only half, imagine those who are 25%. They should resemble more the mesolithic than the one with 25%, i think they clearly do but it's probably more complicated than just who has the most WHG, as in a way what really matters is everything else, and how it is distantly related or not to European HG's.

[cosmoo]

When i look at more recent meso skulls i still see various European faces, when i look at Vestonice for example im not so sure... and they indeed were different genetically, less removed from archaic pop as you go back in time. Of course there is up to 40ky difference between the paleo and the meso, we juggle with tens of thousands of years like it's nothing. I can only suggest you actually read the Lazardis 2016 and Ice Age Europe, the whole pdf.

Balts have the highest mesolithic, it's still not much more than 50% of their genetic, they also have high ANE, we don't know exactly how they looked like, we only have a 32K boy to base our assumptions and genetic that puts them somewhere between WHG and Paleo Indian. You cannot suppose Balts should be exactly like the 100% meso, they are only half, imagine those who are 25%. They should resemble more the mesolithic than the one with 25%, i think they clearly do but it's probably more complicated than just who has the most WHG, as in a way what really matters is everything else, and how it is distantly related or not to European HG's.

Upper Palaeolithic skulls did look pretty much like modern Europeans of CM phenotypes. People just seem to love those few exceptions which represent smaller intrusions in that period into UP Europe, like famous Grimaldi Negroids. Around 95+% of skulls found, however, belonged to men who metrically looked like many modern Europeans.

In the totality of facial features, with a few exceptions, the Upper Palaeolithic people may be said to have resembled modern white men.
("Upper Palaeolithic Man in Europe, the Evidence as a Whole", chapter II, section 6, TRoE)

Regarding your statement about Balts, if they really have so much CM genetics, then it should be visible in their phenotypes, i.e. they should have unreduced CM men in sizeable amount. But they don't. Sure, they have some amount of their influence via East Baltic type, but no true CM types. While we do have much more unreduced CM types elsewhere in Europe, where there is less UP/Meso genetics than in Balts, according to "genetics".

Men who are mostly descendants of UP/Meso hunter-gatherers are men who look like them the most. It's pretty simple.

[Heinz]

https://s6.postimg.io/kkupkjc5t/image.jpg

That should be the new map of the European union, without russia and ukraine of coz. Italy and france need to split if they want to stay.

[Sebastianus Rex]

an obvious made up map without any connection to reality.

[King Claus]

How do you call this hair colour in Belarus?

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10734056_835583579839659_2166612716137807245_n.jpg ?oh=eee3ea6412f377413e268def235d6a8f&oe=5848B98E

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11074174_898293920235291_3375943218448679270_n.jpg ?oh=7665ceab70170b5fc05304c98c65a04a&oe=5883CD86 http://i67.tinypic.com/121egc9.png this is what people consider to be dark blonde. your dyed hair is medium brown

[MinervaItalica]

That should be the new map of the European union, without russia and ukraine of coz. Italy and france need to split if they want to stay.

No, thx. No one desire to split and besides, the one we already have sucks alot.

[andrei98]

North Italians blonde ? SInce when ?

[Cristiano viejo]

My mother or my nephew were not counted for this "map" ;)

http://i.imgur.com/undefined.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/undefined.png

[Lisa]

http://s018.radikal.ru/i511/1609/1a/1518b2823248.jpg (http://radikal.ru)
http://s019.radikal.ru/i641/1609/d7/bb203a8728ae.jpg (http://radikal.ru)

[r0karoka]

This map is complete bullshit lol. When I was in Germany almost all the males were brown haired. Yes, this map is a bit more accurate if it is for newborns and women, but there's no way over 50% in many of these regions have blonde hair.

[Übermensch]

http://i67.tinypic.com/121egc9.png this is what people consider to be dark blonde. your dyed hair is medium brown

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p206x206/11071167_896382347093115_4410607726409913186_n.jpg ?oh=408228af4b9d321a616afe9ea48c0bfc&oe=58432049

[Helmuth]

The balkans and iberia are dark because they were occupied by non-europeans

[King Claus]

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p206x206/11071167_896382347093115_4410607726409913186_n.jpg ?oh=408228af4b9d321a616afe9ea48c0bfc&oe=58432049now it looks reddish

[Stears]

https://s6.postimg.io/kkupkjc5t/image.jpg


The map which was made by a teenager boy with blond france and blond north ITaly and blond Austria and blond bohemia. The teenager gay who made this map, have never been in Europe.

[The Blade]

The balkans and iberia are dark because they were occupied by non-europeans
Balkans and Iberia are white people unlike a great number of your compatriots.

[Wrong]

[IMG]http://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?]
No offens, you look like shit nowadays. Skinnyfat frame.

[Z211]

The map which was made by a teenager boy with blond france and blond north ITaly and blond Austria and blond bohemia. The teenager gay who made this map, have never been in Europe.

Most Hungarians have black hair. You wish they were as blond as those places

[Stears]

Most Hungarians have black hair. You wish they were as blond as those places

Your laughable fantasy is endless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=56&v=Q9AHPKJd0jE

[Stears]

No offens, you look like shit nowadays. Skinnyfat frame.

Said by the envy dwarf wog boy.

[Z211]

Your laughable fantasy is endless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=56&v=Q9AHPKJd0jE

Maybe you have a fantasy and think because of Austria-Hungary that Hungarians should be similar to them

[Stears]

Maybe you have a fantasy and think because of Austria-Hungary that Hungarians should be similar to them

Again, you live in a fantasy world. Proletarian, you have never been in Europe.