9000 year old Norwegian skull "The Lady from the Sea"

[Pallantides]

The remains were found on the coast of Søgne in Vest Agder, the find is believed to be about 9000 years old, wich makes it one of the oldest human remains that have been found in Southern Norway


http://www.khm.uio.no/utstillinger/fruen/img/forsideskalle.jpg
http://www.khm.uio.no/utstillinger/fruen/img/kjonnskall.jpghttp://www.khm.uio.no/utstillinger/fruen/img/compmaske.jpg
http://www.khm.uio.no/utstillinger/fruen/img/kjeve.jpghttp://www.khm.uio.no/utstillinger/fruen/img/tenner.jpg
http://www.uniforum.uio.no/nyheter/1997/uniforum15-97/Sogneweb.jpghttp://www.kulturnett.no/visbilde?id=T11178406&type=temabilde

[Erik]

What kind of race is she? Bruenn or Borreby?
Did she have blue eyes and fair hair?

[Tomasz]

What kind of race is she? Bruenn or Borreby?
Did she have blue eyes and fair hair?

I guess we will not know anything about her pigmentation basing only on raw skull. ;)

[Pallantides]

They have plans to analyze her DNA in the near future, then we will know more about her origin.


Archeology, History and Genetics are sadly neglected subjects in Norway, so things go a bit slow.:(

[Osweo]

http://www.khm.uio.no/utstillinger/fruen/img/kjonnskall.jpghttp://www.khm.uio.no/utstillinger/fruen/img/compmaske.jpg

I haven't seen many pictures of our Acadian Driftwood, but the reconstruction does seem to remind me of her. Anyone else see this? :p

Anyway.... What is the woman's age, do we know? Rather strong featured, big square orbits...

[Pallantides]

She is estimated to have been ca. 35 to 40 years old when she died and 1.56m (5'1) tall.

[Erik]

I supposed that she is a Bruenn or Borreby type, a real ancestor of the actual Norwegians!

[Aviane]

I supposed that she is a Bruenn or Borreby type, a real ancestor of the actual Norwegians!

Agreed, she only could be those what is mentioned. :)

[Pallantides]

I supposed that she is a Bruenn or Borreby type, a real ancestor of the actual Norwegians!

Tydal and Baltid is also possible, to me she looks Borreby though as she had a large and rather robust head.

[Turkophagos]

http://www.khm.uio.no/utstillinger/fruen/img/compmaske.jpg


Looks Finnish to me.

[Pallantides]

http://www.khm.uio.no/utstillinger/fruen/img/compmaske.jpg


Looks Finnish to me.

I think she was a true Norwegian without any of that near eastern admixture :cool:
https://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showpost.php?p=181428&postcount=196



I'd be intrested in knowing her mtDNA.

[Agrippa]

A large part of the new Aurignacoids seem to have come from Eastern Europe where Aurignacoid/leptodolichomorphic forms seem to have dominated in Mesolithic times already.

More archaic Cromagnoids, especially of the Borreby-category, seem to have been much more numerous then in Northern Europe. New waves of more progressive Cromagnids (Dalofaelid) and then Aurignacoids came into some areas at least in a secondary expansion.

[Pallantides]

http://www.kulturnett.no/artikler/artikkel.jsp?id=T11178308&pageid=9(In Norwegian)


Bildet vi fikk laget, viser en kvinne som så ut som oss. Ingen ville ha stusset over å møte henne på gaten i dag, hun ville ha glidd rett inn i befolkningen.

Translation:

The image we had made, show a women that look like us, nobody would wonder if they met her on the street, she would glide right in to the population.
:)

[Erik]

I cannot believe myself why the Norwegians and Norwegian government are not interested
in DNAanalyse or haplogroup research of this Norwegian lady. The Norwegians are her
descendants! Did she have blue eyes and fair/red hair? I think that she is a Borreby/
Aurignac type.
From where did her ancestors come? From southwest France or Spain?

[Lia Bertheau]

If the lady is 9000 years old. Let's take 2000 of our present age. That gives us 7000 B.C. I will like to know if the people of the Middle East had allready invade Europe. Because I read in a serious magazzine that the gene of blue eyes first appear in the Middle East. So, depending if they were there by her time of live (or before) she will have glue or black eyes. If they didn't reach Europe around that time her eyes will be black. Acording to this article.

[Erik]

How can you explain that blue eyes and fair originated in Middle East? How did it arrive
in Scandinavia? I suppose that blue originated in Scandinavia, UK or Germany.
It is told that the Scandinavian prehistory was not interupted by immigrants from the
south or east. There is a continuity from the rendeer hunters till our era. Most changes
and the Indo-European language were received by adoption.

[Pallantides]

If the lady is 9000 years old. Let's take 2000 of our present age. That gives us 7000 B.C. I will like to know if the people of the Middle East had allready invade Europe. Because I read in a serious magazzine that the gene of blue eyes first appear in the Middle East. So, depending if they were there by her time of live (or before) she will have glue or black eyes. If they didn't reach Europe around that time her eyes will be black. Acording to this article.

If blue eyes orginated in middle east, how do you explain the high frequency of blue eyes among Finnic peoples?

[Agrippa]

Whereever blue eyes came up, they were most likely present as a minority element in many Europid populations and reached the very high percentages due to selection in specific regions.

[Psychonaut]

Yeah...

Given that all blue eyed people share a common ancestor (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm) and that frequencies of blue eyes radiate outwards from Northern Europe, it is most likely that the mutation did not occur in the desert.

[Agrippa]

Yeah...

Given that all blue eyed people share a common ancestor (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm) and that frequencies of blue eyes radiate outwards from Northern Europe, it is most likely that the mutation did not occur in the desert.

I'm not that sure about this theory and we should also think about the fact, that light eyes are a trait common in most Europid populations at least as a minority element, which means that genetically the presence should be even much higher.

Also we can see light eyes in autochthonous North Africans, so I doubt a single AND late origin of light eyes in Europids.

The current frequency doesn't tell us something about the origin neither, but only about the region in which the trait became widespread and could compete successfully - more successful than elsewhere.