Why do Makranis genetically cluster with caucasoids if they're largely negroids

[Myanthropologies]

The Makrani people of Pakistan are largely of African origins and look like this:

http://s989.photobucket.com/user/oditous2/media/Bharat/thatta.jpg.html
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSBKR2Lrvjf8R9VwzpA8StofR7N2KF2 NdVpWASjxv4f97EurUj2g

But according to PCA plots and oracles, they are genetically closer to Pashtuns than Iranians are, and genetically closer to Iranians and Turks than Pashtuns are. Well, that PCA had "pathans" which aren't afghan pashtuns genetically, but still. I'm a bit curious.

[Artek]

Can you find and post those plots? There has to be a projection bias somewhere.

[Voskos]

what do you mean largely negroids? afaik they are 1 to 3 percent negro

[Myanthropologies]

what do you mean largely negroids? afaik they are 1 to 3 percent negro

They are definitely way more than that lol.

[Ylla]

Their SSA isn't that high. Here is the Eurogenes K13 average:


Makrani

North Atlantic - 1.03
Baltic - 1.53
West Med - 0.43
West Asian - 49.64
East Med - 10.69
Red Sea - 3.86
South Asian - 27.96
East Asian - 0.00
Siberian - 0.11
Amerindian - 0.37
Oceanian - 0.40
North-East African - 1.33
Sub-Saharan African - 2.66

[Myanthropologies]

Their SSA isn't that high. Here is the Eurogenes K13 average:

Then why do they look so black? And why are they practically known for being African in Pakistan?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Makrani

[Petalpusher]

They have no SSA, they have ASE, ultimaltely they have Onge/Andamanese/Papuan/Australoid, maybe a bit of everything. It isn't African, though it's ENA, so it also comes from Africa earlier or later.

[Myanthropologies]

Can you find and post those plots? There has to be a projection bias somewhere.

This is the PCA I was speaking of:
http://s116.photobucket.com/user/Kadu_album/media/West_Central_Eurasia.png.html

I've also seen some long oracles of Iranians before where sindhis and makranis came up before pashtun and to me, that makes no sense.

[Ylla]

Then why do they look so black? And why are they practically known for being African in Pakistan?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Makrani

I dont know this sorry :D

[Myanthropologies]

They have no SSA, they have ASE, ultimaltely they have Onge/Andamanese/Papuan/Australoid, maybe a bit of everything. It isn't African, though it's ENA, so it also comes from Africa earlier or later.

Then why do they look like this?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fjJ6SQQAXXU/VWYM1y5Q8dI/AAAAAAAAGtE/XaWA_Hove_w/s400/Sheedi.jpg

According to the oracle Ylla posted they're only 28% South asian.

Even based off of the information you said, they shouldn't cluster where they apparently do if that was true. They would cluster with South Indians.

[Danishmend]

:picard2:

You are confusing them with Siddi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddi

"Members are descended from Bantu peoples from Southeast Africa. Some were merchants, sailors, indentured servants, slaves, and mercenaries. The Siddi community is currently estimated at around 50,000–60,000 individuals, with Karnataka, Gujarat and Hyderabad in India and Makran and Karachi in Pakistan as the main population centres."

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Siddi_Girl.jpg/220px-Siddi_Girl.jpg





"Makrani" on that plot have nothing to do with African Siddi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makrani_caste

The Makrani are now distinct from the Sulaymani Baloch, another community of Baloch found in Gujarat. While in Pakistan, the term Makrani in Pakistan tends to be used as synonym for Siddi, the Gujarat Makrani also have no connection with the Siddi community, as they are ethnic Baloch with no historic connection with Africa.

[Myanthropologies]

:picard2:

You are confusing them with Siddi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddi

"Members are descended from Bantu peoples from Southeast Africa. Some were merchants, sailors, indentured servants, slaves, and mercenaries. The Siddi community is currently estimated at around 50,000–60,000 individuals, with Karnataka, Gujarat and Hyderabad in India and Makran and Karachi in Pakistan as the main population centres."

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Siddi_Girl.jpg/220px-Siddi_Girl.jpg





"Makrani" on that plot have nothing to do with African Siddi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makrani_caste

The Makrani are now distinct from the Sulaymani Baloch, another community of Baloch found in Gujarat. While in Pakistan, the term Makrani in Pakistan tends to be used as synonym for Siddi, the Gujarat Makrani also have no connection with the Siddi community, as they are ethnic Baloch with no historic connection with Africa.

Makranis and Siddis are the same. Makranis have African ancestry and Balochi ancestry, and if you've seen them you'd know that they look greatly negroid.

[Voskos]

Then why do they look like this?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fjJ6SQQAXXU/VWYM1y5Q8dI/AAAAAAAAGtE/XaWA_Hove_w/s400/Sheedi.jpg

According to the oracle Ylla posted they're only 28% South asian.

Even based off of the information you said, they shouldn't cluster where they apparently do if that was true. They would cluster with South Indians.

I look like him.

[Myanthropologies]

It says that the Sulaymani Baloch are the people they are distinct from, not that they are Sulaymani baloch, who are a caucasoid people.

[Myanthropologies]

I look like him.

Interesting. What ethnicity are you?

[Myanthropologies]

I look like him.

Interesting. What ethnicity are you?

[Voskos]

Interesting. What ethnicity are you?

Greek islander.

[Danishmend]

Makranis and Siddis are the same. Makranis have African ancestry and Balochi ancestry, and if you've seen them you'd know that they look greatly negroid.

I don't care, the population labelled as "Makrani" in the spreadsheets (and also on that PCA) do not seem to be an African-like population. You can see their results in the spreadsheet. They have 1-2% SSA (even less than Iranians).

[Myanthropologies]

I don't care, the population labelled as "Makrani" in the spreadsheets (and also on that PCA) do not seem to be an African-like population. You can see their results in the spreadsheet. They have 1-2% SSA (even less than Iranians).

Who else would be called "Makranis"? There is already a "balochi" and "gujurati" population on there. My guess is is that it has to do with projection bias. The name Makrani is highly designated for the Siddis, and the plots are likely based on self identity of ancetsry.

Also Iranians have less ssa.

[Petalpusher]

Then why do they look like this?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fjJ6SQQAXXU/VWYM1y5Q8dI/AAAAAAAAGtE/XaWA_Hove_w/s400/Sheedi.jpg

According to the oracle Ylla posted they're only 28% South asian.

Even based off of the information you said, they shouldn't cluster where they apparently do if that was true. They would cluster with South Indians.

The picture you posted in the op they are clearly not all from the same ethnic group. The Makrani sample is from individuals who look more or less like other people in Pakistan, still ASE but they don't look that Africans.

[Myanthropologies]

The picture you posted in the op they are clearly not all from the same ethnic group. The Makrani sample is from individuals who look more or less like other people in Pakistan, still ASE but they don't look that Africans.

Umm yes they do, I've seen them. Makranis/Siddis are a single ethnic group who have cultural ties to the Baloch and Gujuratis. I also highly doubt that an ethnic Baloch or Gujurati would claim to be "Makrani" on these things, or that they would be labeled such by anyone when there is already a separate group for balochis and gujuratis. Makranis and Siddis are a very small group, they don't have multiple ethnic groups as you are suggesting, and they are known for their African heritage.

Even if they were very ASE, they should still cluster way way more south with south indians if they are as ASE as you're suggesting they are.

[Petalpusher]

Umm yes they do, I've seen them. Makranis/Siddis are a single ethnic group who have cultural ties to the Baloch and Gujuratis. I also highly doubt that an ethnic Baloch or Gujurati would claim to be "Makrani" on these things, or that they would be labeled such by anyone when there is already a separate group for balochis and gujuratis. Makranis and Siddis are a very small group, they don't have multiple ethnic groups as you are suggesting, and they are known for their African heritage.

Even if they were very ASE, they should still cluster way way more south with south indians if they are as ASE as you're suggesting they are.

I don't know about the history of this group but for sure you don't have one guy who looks wholesale African and the neighbour who looks regular Pakistanese, there is may be a minority of Africans there for some reasons, they indeed score a little bit which could suggest it, but it's not a couple of percent that would make them look like that, and randomly.

Im not suggesting they are that high but they do have real Ancient south Eurasian (not ASI):

Makrani
ASE 11.70%

Palliyar
ASE 42.70%

Onge
ASE 86.69%

Papuan
ASE 100%

[Myanthropologies]

I don't know about the history of this group but for sure you don't have one guy who looks wholesale African and the neighbour who looks regular Pakistanese, there is may be a minority of Africans there for some reasons, they indeed score a little bit which could suggest it, but it's not a couple of percent that would make them look like that, and randomly.

Im not suggesting they are that high but they do have real Ancient south Eurasian (not ASI):

Makrani
ASE 11.70%

Palliyar
ASE 42.70%

Onge
ASE 86.69%

Papuan
ASE 100%

Maybe. It's either mislabeling or a projection bias.

[Grab the Gauge]

Because Caucasoids and Negroids are one and the same.