View Full Version : Nation Rises to 33rd in Competitiveness
Nation Rises to 33rd in Competitiveness (http://news.err.ee/economy/51d57f02-2cb5-4b15-b40a-802d6487f210)
Estonia has climbed two places to reach 33rd place in the World Economic Forum's latest competitiveness rankings. The organization's newly-released Global Competitiveness Report ranked the country the highest among the ten nations that joined the EU in 2004.
Commenting on the report, Heido Vitsur, an economist for the Estonian Development Fund, said that the most significant change was in the country's macroeconomic situation.
"Estonia's only strength this year was in the macroeconomic indicators – last year we were in 47th place and we have jumped to 18th place. This is an absolutely unprecedented leap," he told a press conference today.
He said that no other nation had made such a leap in the macroeconomic sphere. "Whether that's good or bad, everyone will have to decide for themselves," he said.
Out of the 139 countries studied, Estonia ranked second in per capita mobile phone subscriptions and second in Internet access in schools, behind the United Arab Emirates and Iceland respectively.
The most problematic factors for doing business in Estonia were found to be access to financing, an inadequately educated workforce and tax rates.
Switzerland topped the overall rankings, followed by Sweden and Singapore, while the United Stated fell two positions to fourth place due to macroeconomic imbalances and what the report termed "weakening of the United States’ public and private institutions, as well as lingering concerns about the state of its financial markets."
Eldritch
09-09-2010, 03:09 PM
Finland slipped down to the 7th rung.
I wish someone could explain to me what all these stats really mean. If a country is attractive to bigshot foreign investors, is that good or bad for the people who actually live there?
Finland slipped down to the 7th rung.
I wish someone could explain to me what all these stats really mean. If a country is attractive to bigshot foreign investors, is that good or bad for the people who actually live there?
Usually good, those bigshot foreign investors create jobs and in a general sense, they raise the wealth of the country and the people.
The Lawspeaker
09-09-2010, 03:18 PM
Usually good, those bigshot foreign investors create jobs and in a general sense, they raise the wealth of the country and the people.
Rubbish. Estonia has more then 10 percent unemployment and social problems. How is that good for the Estonian folk ?
It's good if you like to get (financially, politically and legally) assraped though.
"Competitive" in this respect means "ready to be plucked by Bilderberg".
Rubbish. Estonia has more then 10 percent unemployment and social problems. How is that good for the Estonian folk ?
It's good if you like to get (financially, politically and legally) assraped though.
"Competitive" in this respect means "ready to be plucked by Bilderberg.
The world is currently in an economic crisis, although our GDP has already started to grow again...
In the 90's the Estonian government made probably the most successful reforms in Europe and attracted a lot of foreign investors, who then created jobs for the population and raised the overall prosperity of the country. There's a reason why Estonia is the most successful ex-USSR country.
The Lawspeaker
09-09-2010, 03:58 PM
Yes.. it were reforms that killed off all forms of social protection. That took down the farming community and drove people to the cities - exactly as Bilderberg planned.
This is how they work: they tear down social protection and legal protection for people, they destroy traditional cultures and they rob the country blind and then they move on to the next country etc.
Yes.. it were reforms that killed off all forms of social protection. That took down the farming community and drove people to the cities - exactly as Bilderberg planned.
This is how they work: they tear down social protection and legal protection for people, they destroy traditional cultures and they rob the country blind and then they move on to the next country etc.
Traditional culture is very strongly supported in this country, probably because of our small population. Which makes us value our culture.
If "all of this is planned", then why did Estonia receive the most investments? Why not all the countries? There are ex-USSR countries(who actually have natural resources, Estonia doesn't have any) with larger populations. The answer is, Estonia created a paradise for entrepreneurs, with the reforms.
Our success is in our culture, it differentiates us from all the other ex-USSR countries, who are Eastern-European. As it is said, "Estonia is the only post-communist Nordic country (http://palun.blogspot.com/2006/09/only-post-communist-nordic-country.html)".
Corruption is high in Eastern-Europe, but Estonia has one of the lowest levels of corruption in Europe(top 5). It's because we aren't Eastern-Europeans, we are Nordic. No one can be superior by being blonde or light featured. But one can be superior with their culture. The Protestant/Lutheran way of life/culture is superior in many ways.
Lithuaniatribune.com writes with reference to weekly Veidas that the wealth gap between Estonia and the rest of the Baltic states was widening because of religion.
Explaining why Estonians have been less willing to emigrate than their southern neighbours, why they have higher monthly wages and the old age pensions (more than 20 percent higher than in Lithuania) and why Estonia’s GDP is higher than Lithuania’s by 12 percent, Lithuaian sociologist Mindaugas Degutis says religion is the major factor influencing this trend.
He said: “Estonians are Protestants and sociologist Max Weber already a hundred years ago noticed a link between Protestantism and economic development because the followers of this religion believe that they will be redeemed if they are good at work. This could have contributed to the factors that have led to the leadership of the Estonians – a faster and more successful implementation of reforms, the discipline which is characterises the Nordic countries, a political system more focused on pragmatic functioning instead of populist attitudes.”
The Lawspeaker
09-09-2010, 04:13 PM
A more neutral Dutch travelogue has this to say (Marco Polo Reisgidsen- Baltische Landen - page 15) :
From a western point of view Estonia resembles a model student under the new EU-members: privatisations in record time, a quick opening up of the market, high growth figures. The close proximity to Finland also has made it's contribution: the land of the Nokia-cellphone is far the biggest investor. To follow up on the demands of the EU was Estonia forced to follow a radical liberal course: scrapped the welfare state, sacked older employees, and allowed the farming community to slowly die out.
Today Tallinn is the financial capital of the Baltic. Also the trans-Baltic Hansabank has it's main seat there. Only on the unemployment the Estonians don't seem to get the grasp. Despite the low wages it hovers around the 10 percent.
I bought this booklet in 2004/2005.
And we continue on page 17:
Estonia is currently building a genetic database of the entire population. In Iceland a similar program is being run. The data are stored by government agencies and sold to the highest commercial bidder.
Here lay big opportunities for research and the bio-technical industry, because the genetic blueprint of a compact ethnicity can help in the research into new medicines. Estonia hopes to become the Mecca of the genetic industry.
Page 17/18:
At present the average wage in the Baltic lies around 400 euro's a month. There is a discrepancy of the official amount and what you usually see in the capital cities: with cars, eating out and the latest fashion people usually spend more then what they can afford.
A lot of people make more money illegally (without paying taxes over it) and many young, well-educated people have more then one job and many Balts that left to America send money home.
Those that do not have the skills in order to fit into the market-economy and mobility have it rough. Also the elderly are part of the losers.
In contrary to Russia pensions are paid on time but are usually not even enough the cover to rent and utilities.
A more neutral Dutch travelogue has this to say (Marco Polo Reisgidsen- Baltische Landen - page 15) :
From a western point of view Estonia resembles a model student under the new EU-members: privatisations in record time, a quick opening up of the market, high growth figures. The close proximity to Finland also has made it's contribution: the land of the Nokia-cellphone is far the biggest investor. To follow up on the demands of the EU was Estonia forced to follow a radical liberal course: scrapped the welfare state, sacked older employees, and allowed the farming community to slowly die out.
Today Tallinn is the financial capital of the Baltic. Also the trans-Baltic Hansabank has it's main seat there. Only on the unemployment the Estonians don't seem to get the grasp. Despite the low wages it hovers around the 10 percent.
I bought this booklet in 2004/2005.
Unemployment definitely couldn't be higher than 10% in 2004/2005. It was 5.9% in 2006, 4.7% in 2007 and then it started to rise because of the economic crisis. The unemployment rate in 2008 was 5.5%.
The Lawspeaker
09-09-2010, 04:29 PM
There is more dirty laundry for you :) Don't always believe official figures.
Vasconcelos
09-09-2010, 04:35 PM
You also have to take into account that there are two types of unemplyment, short and long duration. Short unemplyment doesn't hurt the country that much because a state doesn't have to support them for a long time, nor do they get totally unproductive for a long time, it's not good, but certainly not the end of the world.
Long term unemployment is what you should be worrying about, which is why I don't care THAT much for standard unemplyment figures of x%.
There is more dirty laundry for you :) Don't always believe official figures.
I actually do believe the people who work in the statistics department (http://www.stat.ee/en) and get paid for their job, not some travelogue.
well-educated people have more then one job and many Balts that left to America send money home.
I stopped believing anything from that travelogue after they called Estonians, Balts. Or is it just your bad translation from Dutch to English? No one can write anything about Estonia or Estonians, if they think that we are Balts. When the oxymoronic term, Baltic, has many meanings(geographical) as some claim, then the word Balt(s) has only 1 meaning.
Anyway, leaving that beside, there are also other errors in it.
The Lawspeaker
09-09-2010, 04:37 PM
No.. I translated it well. And this kind of growth is seen all over Central Europe.. hell Spain, Portugal, Greece and Ireland as well. And we in the late 1980s and 1990s fell for the same trap.
This is the Bilderberg growth model for you: it's hook and bate.
No.. I translated it well. And this kind of growth is seen all over Central Europe.. hell Spain, Portugal, Greece and Ireland as well. And we in the late 1980s and 1990s fell for the same trap.
This is the Bilderberg growth model for you: it's hook and bate.
You forgot that Estonia follows the Nordic economic model, which is also the reason why Estonia was ranked the 2nd(together with Denmark) most sustainable economy in the EU, below Sweden and above Finland.
Ireland has a huge debt, while Estonia doesn't. Already paying the percentages for having such a large debt takes a big chunk from a country's income. If Estonia won't get a big loan, then we will have more resources to use.
Do you think that Estonia is Latvia? A very large part of people make the mistake and look at this area as a single entity.
Coming back to the original topic, Lithuania was ranked 47th and Latvia was ranked 70th.
Estonia differs from the Baltic countries, linguistically, culturally and economically. Do not look at Estonia and then think that we are Latvia or Lithuanian with a different name...
The Lawspeaker
09-09-2010, 04:50 PM
What Nordic model do they follow ? The social-democratic model of earlier this century or the reform model of the late 1990s which has already created a figure of 10 percent of all people in Sweden and Denmark that are living under the poverty line with no labour protection (no minimum wage either in Denmark !) ?
BTW: Eurostat disagrees with you when it comes to Estonian unemployment. (http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/3-01032010-AP/EN/3-01032010-AP-EN.PDF) (late 2000s)
Do you think that Estonia is Latvia? A very large part of people make the mistake and look at this area as a single entity.
Estonia differs from the Baltic countries, linguistically, culturally and economically. Do not look at Estonia and then think that we are Latvia or Lithuanian with a different name...
You know.. the outside world doesn't give a rats ass about your (and mine.. it's also mine) definition. Geopolitically speaking they are seen as one, single entity.
Megrez
09-09-2010, 04:53 PM
Economic growth is all ok until some clever politician finds out that you must welcome 3rd world immigrants to grow the labour force. Or simply for charity, since you're rich now :D
What Nordic model do they follow ? The social-democratic model of earlier this century or the reform model of the late 1990s which has already created a figure of 10 percent of all people in Sweden and Denmark that are living under the poverty line with no labour protection (no minimum wage either in Denmark !) ?
You are currently talking about the political model, I was talking about economy. The conservatives and liberal conservatives are ruling here. Not the leftist socialists.
BTW: Eurostat disagrees with you when it comes to Estonian unemployment. (http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/3-01032010-AP/EN/3-01032010-AP-EN.PDF) (late 2000s)
Disagree with what? There's no way that an Eurostat research could disagree with the unemployment rates I gave for 2006, 2007 and 2008. As I got the data from the European Commission, Economic and Financial Affairs publication.
Economic growth is all ok until some clever politician finds out that you must welcome 3rd world immigrants to grow the labour force. Or simply for charity, since you're rich now :D
That topic was recently discussed in the Estonian media and the Estonian Ministry Of Interior said that importing massive amounts of 3rd world immigrants would be a threat for Estonia and it won't be allowed. No one wants to come here anyway, as we aren't handing out money.
There's this story:
An Afghan tried to go to Ireland through Estonia, we was caught and sent back. He thought that he had arrived in Finland, because of the Nordic climate and asked for asylum. When he found out that he is in Estonia, then he quickly took back that request.
The Swedish Socialist model will collapse if the decreasing working force isn't capable anymore to pay money for nothing to the 3rd world immigrants.
The Lawspeaker
09-09-2010, 05:13 PM
Economic growth is all ok until some clever politician finds out that you must welcome 3rd world immigrants to grow the labour force. Or simply for charity, since you're rich now :D
And guess what will happen. This travelogue already talks about it:
Page 15:
Not only in Western Europe is the population ageing. Also in the new and young and dynamic EU-countries too few people are being born, while the Estonian society is one of the most rapidly ageing populations in the world. Like in the West many young people seek to develop themselves before they establish a family; in conjunction to that low wages and insecurity about the present reforms offer no conditions in which to produce children.
Already at present certain qualified staff is already in short supply despite the high unemployment . Mainly doctors and nurses have left to the West. One day the Balts would have to let in immigrants in order to prevent the companies from leaving even if the population at large isn't willing to do it.
Page 18:
At present 1 out of 3 people in Latvia has roots in the former Soviet republics, in Estonia 1 out of 4. Estonia and Latvia refused them to accept as citizens. Laws that prevented them the use of their own language in business made their lifes more difficult. Under pressure of the NATO and the EU those dubious paragraphs were removed and naturalisation procedures simplified. In Lithuania the Russian-speaking minority quickly received citizenship. But in Lithuania their numbers are smaller then in Estonia and Latvia.
Karl.. you refuse to see it but they have put your country on the road to national suicide.
And guess what will happen. This travelogue already talks about it:
Page 15:
Not only in Western Europe is the population ageing. Also in the new and young and dynamic EU-countries too few people are being born, while the Estonian society is one of the most rapidly ageing populations in the world. Like in the West many young people seek to develop themselves before they establish a family; in conjunction to that low wages and insecurity about the present reforms offer no conditions in which to produce children.
Already at present certain qualified staff begins to get rarer despite the high unemployment . Mainly doctors and nurses have left to the West. One day the Balts would have to let in immigrants in order to prevent the companies from leaving even if the population at large isn't willing to do it.
In 2008, Estonia had one of the highest(4th) birthrates in entire EU, only Ireland, the UK and France had higher birthrates.
Page 18:
At present 1 out of 3 people in Latvia has roots in the former Soviet republics, in Estonia 1 out of 4. Estonia and Latvia refused them to accept as citizens. Laws that prevented them the use of their own language in business made their lifes more difficult. Under pressure of the NATO and the EU those dubious paragraphs were removed and naturalisation procedures simplified. In Lithuania the Russian-speaking minority quickly received citizenship. But in Lithuania their numbers are smaller then in Estonia and Latvia.
Karl.. you refuse to see it but they have put your country on the road to national suicide.
Such laws only exist in Latvia (http://rt.com/Top_News/2008-12-10/Words_could_cost_you_dear_in_Latvia.html)(it is illegal to speak a foreign language at the workplace), not in Estonia.
Your book or whatever it is, is full of errors. Calling Estonians, Balts... Thinking that Estonia has the same laws as Latvia... etc. Or is it about Latvia and Latvians? Not about Estonia and Estonians? The impression I get from your written chapters, is that the author thinks that Estonia is Latvia with a different name, which is completely false.
Is it written by an American? The level of ignorance/misinformation, makes me think so. :p
The Lawspeaker
09-09-2010, 05:24 PM
In 2008, Estonia had one of the highest(4th) birthrates in entire EU, only Ireland, the UK and France had higher birthrates.
Under Estonians or Russki's and other Soviet stuff ? Show me the figures.
Ireland's growth is natural. In Britain and France it is mainly immigrant and you know that as well as I do.;)
Such laws only exist in Latvia (http://rt.com/Top_News/2008-12-10/Words_could_cost_you_dear_in_Latvia.html)(it is illegal to speak a foreign language at the workplace), not in Estonia.
Because maybe they scrapped the law.
Your book or whatever it is, is full of errors. Calling Estonians, Balts... Thinking that Estonia has the same laws as Latvia... etc
Geopolitically they are lumped together in every single publication and in every country.. it doesn't matter whether you are in Russia, Germany, the United States, Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden or anywhere else for that matter apart maybe from those made by the Estonian government and Estonian Apricity-member "Lenna".
Under Estonians or Russki's and other Soviet stuff ? Show me the figures.
Ireland's growth is natural. In Britain and France it is mainly immigrant and you know that as well as I do.;)
The ironic thing is... I posted a thread once and you thanked my post and gave me a rep for it. All the info was in there. I'll give you the link to that thread.
Minifacts about Estonia 2010 (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15515)
Because maybe they scrapped the law.
As far as I know, such a law has never existed here. Before the EU, people without citizenship couldn't vote in the parliamentary nor local elections, now they cant vote in the local elections. That has changed.
Geopolitically they are lumped together in every single publication apart maybe from those made by the Estonian government and Estonian Apricity-member "Lenna".
As I said, the oxymoronic term of "Baltic country" applies for Estonia and most people use it. But only very few uneducated people call, Estonians, Balts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts). As that term has only 1 meaning.
If you're saying that I'm the only member of The Apricity, who doesn't think that Estonians are Indo-Europeans and speak Baltic languages, then I am very strongly disappointed.
Seriously, I think there are very few people here who do not know that Estonians are Balts. We have had many discussion about Finnics, Finns, Finno-Ugrics etc.
Megrez
09-09-2010, 05:45 PM
In 2008, Estonia had one of the highest(4th) birthrates in entire EU, only Ireland, the UK and France had higher birthrates.
As if Ireland, UK and france had exemplar, healthy birthrates (among natives only).
From my pov Asega speaks from a small country that has already had its economic growth and now endures the consequences. You better take his advice in deep consideration.
As if Ireland, UK and france had exemplar, healthy birthrates.
From my pov Asega speaks from a small country that has already had its economic growth and now endures the consequences. You better take his advice in deep consideration.
The Nordic countries which weren't affected by the USSR also already had their economic growth, but Sweden is doing quite well and is ranked the #1 most sustainable economy in the EU. Sweden is still growing.
What are the consequences? 3rd world immigration? It is possible to have economic growth and not have 3rd world immigrants. The key is to have a conservative welfare system.
The Lawspeaker
09-09-2010, 05:48 PM
The ironic thing is... I posted a thread once and you thanked my post and gave me a rep for it. All the info was in there. I'll give you the link to that thread.
Minifacts about Estonia 2010 (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15515)
That was before I found how such stuff regarding such data works. They measure in accordance to nationality not ethnicity.
As far as I know, such a law has never existed here. Before the EU, people without citizenship couldn't vote in the parliamentary nor local elections, now they cant vote in the local elections. That has changed.
Exactly.. and that's why they were (rightfully) refused citizenship - which was all scrapped under EU pressure.
As I said, the oxymoronic term of "Baltic country" applies for Estonia and most people use it. But only very few uneducated people call, Estonians, Balts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts). As that term has only 1 meaning.
Abroad they are being called Balts. In the same way as Germans, French, Italians, Dutch etc combined are being called West Europeans.
It's a regional term.
If you're saying that I'm the only member of The Apricity, who doesn't think that Estonians are Indo-Europeans and speak Baltic languages, then I am very strongly disappointed.
I am afraid you are one of the few people that doesn't lump them into the Baltic category (I am another one but what counts is the official definition).
Seriously, I think there are very few people here who do not know that Estonians are Balts. We have had many discussion about Finnics, Finns, Finno-Ugrics etc.
What counts here in this context in the official definition. Not your definition, not mine.. but the official definition.
As if Ireland, UK and france had exemplar, healthy birthrates (among natives only).
From my pov Asega speaks from a small country that has already had its economic growth and now endures the consequences. You better take his advice in deep consideration.
This is exactly the same trap and they are walking straight into it.
What are the consequences? 3rd world immigration? It is possible to have economic growth and not have 3rd world immigrants. The key is to have a conservative welfare system.
Nonsense. That's the trick they use: the force your wages and welfare down so they can plunder you on the cheap and they use the immigrants in order to blackmail you because they will bring them in in the end in order to make it even cheaper.
That's how it works. And that's why the first immigrants were brought in "the Dutch are too expensive" or "the Dutch are too lazy" etc. And they will do the same thing with the Estonians.
That was before I found how such stuff regarding such data works. They measure in accordance to nationality not ethnicity.
The birthrates of Estonians is higher than the birthrates of Russians(immigrants).
Exactly.. and that's why they were (rightfully) refused citizenship - which was all scrapped under EU pressure.
They have an alien's passport and live here, thus voting in the local elections isn't that illogical, but they can't vote in the parliamentary elections, which is one of the reasons why the conservatives are in rule.
A survey was done here, 3% of Russians supported the currently leading party(liberal-conservative) in the parliament, 1% supported the 2nd conservative party. Thus 4% support the coalition... It's great that they can't vote.
Abroad they are being called Balts. In the same way as Germans, French, Italians, Dutch etc combined are being called West Europeans.
It's a regional term.
The term Baltic is a regional term, doesn't matter how oxymoronic it is. But the term Balt is strictly linguistic.
The Balts or Baltic peoples (People who live by the Baltic Sea), defined as speakers of one of the Baltic languages, a branch of the Indo-European language family, are descended from a group of Indo-European tribes who settled the area between the Jutland peninsula in the west and Moscow, Oka and Volga rivers basins in the east. One of the features of Baltic languages is the number of conservative or archaic features retained.[1] Among the Baltic peoples are modern Lithuanians, Latvians (including Latgalians) — all Eastern Balts — as well as the Prussians, Yotvingians and Galindians — the Western Balts — whose languages and cultures are now extinct.
Asega, you share more ties with Balts, than I do.
I am afraid you are one of the few people that doesn't lump them into the Baltic category (I am another one but what counts is the official definition).
Estonia may be referred to as a Baltic country, but no one refers to Estonians as Balts or Baltic people.
What counts here in this context in the official definition. Not your definition, not mine.. but the official definition.[/QUOTE]
The official definition:
The Balts or Baltic peoples (People who live by the Baltic Sea), defined as speakers of one of the Baltic languages, a branch of the Indo-European language family, are descended from a group of Indo-European tribes who settled the area between the Jutland peninsula in the west and Moscow, Oka and Volga rivers basins in the east.
My definition is the same as the "official" definition...
A lot of people make more money illegally (without paying taxes over it) and many young, well-educated people have more then one job and many Balts that left to America send money home.
This sentence is full of errors. "A lot of people" do not make more money illegally and Estonians aren't Balts.
The conclusion, is Estonia may be called a Baltic country but it's a completely different story when talking about Estonians. When talking about Estonians, then the Dutch are more Baltic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_languages) than Estonians, as the Dutch are at least Indo-European and thus share more linguistic ties with the Balts.
esaima
09-09-2010, 06:16 PM
[FONT="Georgia"]Under Estonians or Russki's and other Soviet stuff ?
Birth rate was pretty high in 1988-ca 1992, during the period of singing revolution and avakening from communism.But then it notably decreased.
I think in 2004 or 2005 government adopted a law which enables mothers to get their last average salary during the first 1,5 year on maternity leave.Seems that it has it´s effect.
Megrez
09-09-2010, 06:30 PM
I'm afraid I'm being led to think that in Europe nowadays, in regards to ethno-cultural preservation, the poorer a country is... the better :eek:
Damn, I have to recognize that even my Brasil varanil is better in this matter somehow. Here the eurodescent communities keep their ethnicity and culture living on also due to their wealth. Asega might have recognized it as reading about the city of Holambra. People there would be in a hell if they weren't wealthy...
This doesn't mean that the eurodescendants here are all rich, but they manage to live very well outside the mainstream world economics.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.