Thracian DNA.land result

[poiuytrewq0987]

This is the result of a Thracian sample found in a pit cemetery near Svilengrad dated between 800 BC and 500 BC during the iron age. The data was acquired from y-str.org.

http://www.y-str.org/2014/11/ancient-bulgaria-p1921-dna.html

http://s22.postimg.org/spj0i318x/p192result.png

[GoneWithTheWind]

What haplogroup

[GoneWithTheWind]

So basically another EV 13 Thracian



P192_1 is derived for CTS202/Z825 which is roughly equivalent to E1b1b1a1b

But what's funny to read is as these ancient people are found you have tards arguing Ev 13 is not Balkan hurry durr

[poiuytrewq0987]

So basically another EV 13 Thracian




But what's funny to read is as these ancient people are found you have tards arguing Ev 13 is not Balkan hurry durr

Yes, this is the source. https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-y-snp-calls-from-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgaria/

[wvwvw]

What is meant by Mediterranean islander?

[GoneWithTheWind]

Yes, this is the source. https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-y-snp-calls-from-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgaria/

I read through it. Several Thracian samples Ev13 and another one possibly R1b ?

[poiuytrewq0987]

I read through it. Several Thracian samples Ev13 and another one possibly R1b ?

There is also a link that leads to autosomal results. It seems like Thracians were a generally mixed people? Here are the basic results of all four Thracian samples with more at the link below.

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/analyses-of-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgarian-genomes/

P192-1
globe4


90.47% European
9.53% African
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% Asian


T2G2
globe4


76.67% European
23.32% African
0.01% Amerindian
0.00% Asian


V2

globe4


58.89% European
20.61% Asian
11.91% African
8.59% Amerindian

K8

globe4


97.86% European
1.65% Amerindian
0.49% African
0.00% Asian

[wvwvw]

I read through it. Several Thracian samples Ev13 and another one possibly R1b ?

How can he be Thracian if he is Ev13 and 100% Mediterranean Islander? We know that Illyria and Thrace were ruled by Greeks for most part and we even have the Minoan script that was found in Bulgaria which proves the accounts of Ancient Greeks about the colonization of Asia Minor by Minoans are correct.

Ev13 is Greco-Phoenician and its oldest subclade is found in Peloponnesus.

[Deymark321]

>Svilengrad
>E1b

basically a greek.

[GoneWithTheWind]

There is also a link that leads to autosomal results. It seems like Thracians were a generally mixed people? Here are the basic results of all four Thracian samples with more at the link below.

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/analyses-of-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgarian-genomes/

P192-1
globe4


90.47% European
9.53% African
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% Asian


T2G2
globe4


76.67% European
23.32% African
0.01% Amerindian
0.00% Asian


V2

globe4


58.89% European
20.61% Asian
11.91% African
8.59% Amerindian

K8

globe4


97.86% European
1.65% Amerindian
0.49% African
0.00% Asian



Yes I checked it out. One is Ev 13, another j2? And one is predicted to be R1b rather than r1a?

I've seen some Thracian autosomal DNA that shows mixed while others not so mixed. They formed from a mixed population

[wvwvw]

There is also a link that leads to autosomal results. It seems like Thracians were a generally mixed people? Here are the basic results of all four Thracian samples with more at the link below.

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/analyses-of-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgarian-genomes/

P192-1
globe4


90.47% European
9.53% African
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% Asian


T2G2
globe4


76.67% European
23.32% African
0.01% Amerindian
0.00% Asian


V2

globe4


58.89% European
20.61% Asian
11.91% African
8.59% Amerindian

K8

globe4


97.86% European
1.65% Amerindian
0.49% African
0.00% Asian



Nonsense. There's no way a Thracian would be 23% African at 800 or 600 BC.

[poiuytrewq0987]

What is meant by Mediterranean islander?

Basically means populations from Mediterranean islands like Crete, Cyprus, etc.

[Deymark321]

How can he be Thracian if he is Ev13 and 100% Mediterfanean islander? We know that Illyria and Thrace were ruled by Greeks for most part and we even have the Minoan script that was found in Bulgaria which proves the accounts of Ancient Greeks about the colonization of Asia Minor by Minoans are correct.

Ev13 is Greco-Phoenician and its oldest subclade is found in Peloponnesus.

this.

[Insuperable]

There is also a link that leads to autosomal results. It seems like Thracians were a generally mixed people? Here are the basic results of all four Thracian samples with more at the link below.

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/analyses-of-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgarian-genomes/

P192-1
globe4


90.47% European
9.53% African
0.00% Amerindian
0.00% Asian


T2G2
globe4


76.67% European
23.32% African
0.01% Amerindian
0.00% Asian


V2

globe4


58.89% European
20.61% Asian
11.91% African
8.59% Amerindian

K8

globe4


97.86% European
1.65% Amerindian
0.49% African
0.00% Asian



For 100th time, they were not fucking mixed. When their genomes were released it is said samples were indicating higher level of dna contamination. Even in your link it says the following:

These samples include both human DNA and DNA from environmental contaminants such as bacteria and fungi, which introduces a great deal of noise into the data. The very small number of SNPs for these samples also contributes to the noise in the data. This noise shows up in the results below as Negroid or Mongoloid admixture.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Nonsense. There's no way a Thracian would be 23% African at 800 or 600 BC.

It's not nonsense. The Thracians didn't appear on European soil, but the Middle East and North Africa where they likely came into contact with other non-European MENA populations.

[poiuytrewq0987]

For 100th time, they were not fucking mixed. When their genome were released it is said samples were indicating higher level of dna contamination. Even in your link it says the following:
y so angry bro?

[GoneWithTheWind]

How can he be Thracian if he is Ev13 and 100% Mediterfanean islander? We know that Illyria and Thrace were ruled by Greeks for most part and we even have the Minoan script that was found in Bulgaria which proves the accounts of Ancient Greeks about the colonization of Asia Minor by Minoans are correct.

Ev13 is Greco-Phoenician and its oldest subclade is found in Peloponnesus.

Because it's a Thracian duh. 4 Thracian samples. Ev 13. J2 and r1b possibly more than r1a. Surely all these findings of ancient cannot be Greeks. Greeks colonized some coastal areas. It's not as if they mass settled there.

Basically an ancient balkanite med similar to a Greek, Bulgarian and Albo

[Deymark321]

In thracians, the skulls found were either nordic-cromagnon or med.The med ones must be the E1b here, greeks, which had very strong ties with thracians and even entire towns.Would explain perfectly how even though all writings call them as typicall nordic looking tribe, we found med skulls.

[Insuperable]

y so angry bro?

Because when you think we went through this for the 99th time, 100th time kinda pisses you off.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Because it's a Thracian duh. 4 Thracian samples. Ev 13. J2 and r1b possibly more than r1a. Surely all these findings of ancient cannot be Greeks. Greeks colonized some coastal areas. It's not as if they mass settled there.

Basically an ancient balkanite med similar to a Greek, Bulgarian and Albo

Raine also believes that Rome is a Greek city, so don't waste your time arguing with her.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Because when you think we went through this for the 99th time, 100th time kinda pisses you off.

DNA land's result contradicts with the findings from Gedmatch calculators, anyhow. If there was any African then DNAland probably would have picked it up too.

[GoneWithTheWind]

Nonsense. There's no way a Thracian would be 23% African at 800 or 600 BC.

During the expansion of ev 13 Greeks as a population did not even exist. How can it even be Greek. Sure ev 13 carriers have a common ancestor and it's oldest subclade might be from what is today Greece. You're crediting the expansion of ev13 in the Balkans with Greek colonisation which is ridiculous. Ev13 is most likely not even Indo European and was picked up by proto Thracians, proto Greeks and proto llyrians. E would of expanded into the Balkans and rest of Europe before even Greeks existed.

There are several samples in Bulgaria found ev 13, j2 and possibly r1b and less likely r1a. Surely they cannot be Greeks. Leave your nationalism aside and stopp being a retard. That being said Greeks do have Thracian ancestry from hellenized Thracians.

[GoneWithTheWind]

In thracians, the skulls found were either nordic-cromagnon or med.The med ones must be the E1b here, greeks, which had very strong ties with thracians and even entire towns.Would explain perfectly how even though all writings call them as typicall nordic looking tribe, we found med skulls.

They were obviously diverse. They formed from a mixed population. Proto Thracians migrated from north . In the Balkans there were already indigenous people living that got assimilated by the Indo Europeans. These indigenous people were most likely ev 13 and that's how Indo Europeans picked it up. Already ev 13 was spread in the Balkans but to credit Greek colonisatio alone? Nonsense

[Deymark321]

D

>Ev13 is most likely not even Indo European
>most likely

100% likely

>proto llyrians

proto-illyrians came from Steppe and carried R1a.Most accepted theory is that they came during the Bronze Age as nomadic Indo-Europeans from the steppe.Same for thracians.Ultimately their origin is somewhere in UKRAINE.

[Insuperable]

DNA land's result contradicts with the findings from Gedmatch calculators, anyhow. If there was any African then DNAland probably would have picked it up too.


I have not read the official paper (I know of one early paper where they analyze genomes of two Thracians called K8 and P192-1), but I think (don't hold me on that) they also didn't mention african or asian ancestry in thracian samples, just that the dna of one sample (the one called K8) is contaminated and deviated strongly from the other and not because he had African dna, but because he looked HG with Russian ancestry and clusters with northern popuation while the other showed affinities with Sardinians. Authors also said that they were using only a small number of SNPs. African or Asian ancestry in the other two samples has definitely something to do with dna contamination.

[Deymark321]

They were obviously diverse. They formed from a mixed population. Proto Thracians migrated from north . In the Balkans there were already indigenous people living that got assimilated by the Indo Europeans. These indigenous people were most likely ev 13 and that's how Indo Europeans picked it up. Already ev 13 was spread in the Balkans but to credit Greek colonisatio alone? Nonsense

The only ev-13 in balkans back then was in Greece.The Ev-13 outside Greece was from greek colonies,this is why they find it in many tomb bones.Thracians burned their remainings.

[Balkanite]

>Ev13 is most likely not even Indo European
>most likely

100% likely

>proto llyrians

proto-illyrians came from Steppe and carried R1a.Most accepted theory is that they came during the Bronze Age as nomadic Indo-Europeans from the steppe.Same for thracians.Ultimately their origin is somewhere in UKRAINE.

The most accepted theory isn't necessarily the correct one. For example some Uralic groups are more Steppic than any modern IE-speaking population.
Also 'proto-IE' is probably older than what they say. They manipulate the data in order to reach their conclusions.

[cosmoo]

>proto llyrians

proto-illyrians came from Steppe and carried R1a.Most accepted theory is that they came during the Bronze Age as nomadic Indo-Europeans from the steppe.Same for thracians.Ultimately their origin is somewhere in UKRAINE.

Much of R1b also came from steppe like R1a. You have tons of men from steppe (Yamnaya culture) that have carried R1b. Besides, where is non-Slavic R1a on Balkans today? R1b was most likely the original Illyrian haplogroup.
http://i.imgur.com/81J4cio.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/X8BjilH.jpg

[GoneWithTheWind]

Raine also believes that Rome is a Greek city, so don't waste your time arguing with her.

Man.. The more and more I get into this the more I see how I have been right about many things I believed over the years but anthrotards will always try to twist the truth. Beware Thracian brother from another mother.

There were some good threads lost when TA went down.

[Deymark321]

You have tons of men from steppe (Yamnaya culture) that have carried R1b. Besides, where is non-Slavic R1a on Balkans today?


What are the slavic R1a sub-branches?

Im talking about Westic Ukraine near Belarus and Poland where R1a was predominant back then.And Yamnaya existed a few thousands years before Illyrians, it would be foolish to make such conclusion.

[cosmoo]

What are the slavic R1a sub-branches?

Im talking about Westic Ukraine near Belarus and Poland where R1a was predominant back then.And Yamnaya existed a few thousands years before Illyrians, it would be foolish to make such conclusion.

M458 and Z280. Z92 can be considered Balto-Slavic.
Your assumptions that all R1b-L23 came from Anatolia and that it is "Neolithic farmer" haplogroup are wrong, since it clearly existed in a lot of ancient steppe men tested.

[Deymark321]

M458 and Z280. Z92 can be considered Balto-Slavic.
Your assumptions that all R1b-L23 came from Anatolia and that it is "Neolithic farmer" haplogroup are wrong, since it clearly existed in a lot of ancient steppe men tested.

Z280 is not slavic.M458 is.Z280 is what spread the satem languages way before slavs in this area.
R1b-l23 came from Anatolia and its not any assumption or my assumption.R1b-l23 is crystal clear that it came from Anatolia as farmers even today the bulk is there.They were associated with hittites, phyrigians...

https://rokus01.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/l23.png

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L23.gif

[GoneWithTheWind]

The only ev-13 in balkans back then was in Greece.The Ev-13 outside Greece was from greek colonies,this is why they find it in many tomb bones.Thracians burned their remainings.

So ev 13 in the Balkans only existed in Greece, even though it was found in other parts of Europe, until Greek colonisation spread it? Ev 13 touches parts that these colonisations did not even touch.

Greek is a Indo European language. Greeks originally could of not been ev 13 then but r1b and some non Slavic clades of r1a. They must of picked it up like everbody else by that time E was already across Europe let alone Balkans.

And also some non IE hg could of been picked up before even entering Europe itself and Indo Euro's could of brought some of them. The possibilities are endless

[GoneWithTheWind]

M458 and Z280. Z92 can be considered Balto-Slavic.
Your assumptions that all R1b-L23 came from Anatolia and that it is "Neolithic farmer" haplogroup are wrong, since it clearly existed in a lot of ancient steppe men tested.

The same can also be said for j2b, ev 13 and other hgs. I do believe proto shqiptars were j2b with r1b and possibly some e that came from the steppes and Caucasus. Proto shqiptars could of picked up non IE hg before even entering Europe. The possibilities are endless

[Deymark321]

So

Proto-greek speakers were most then likely R1a.
Ev13 was the pre-greek in the Greek territory, same as I2 were the indigenous one in balkans, excluding Greece.


The same can also be said for j2b, ev 13 and other hgs. I do believe proto shqiptars were j2b with r1b and possibly some e that came from the steppes and Caucasus. Proto shqiptars could of picked up non IE hg before even entering Europe. The possibilities are endless

proto-siptars were more than likely J2b.

[cosmoo]

Z280 is not slavic.M458 is.Z280 is what spread the satem languages way before slavs in this area.
R1b-l23 came from Anatolia and its not any assumption or my assumption.R1b-l23 is crystal clear that it came from Anatolia as farmers even today the bulk is there.They were associated with hittites, phyrigians...

Then how do you explain that R1b-L23 was found in a lot of IE steppe samples?
You can't judge where some haplogroup came from based on current distribution. If it was as easy as that, we could make tons of wrong conclusions, for example, that I1 is native in Scandinavia (even though it didn't enter it before Neolithic), and that most of R1b came from Ireland.
Not even going to comment on statement that R1a-Z280 is not Slavic.

[Wrong]

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3486/9101/original.jpg

[Sikeliot]

What is meant by Mediterranean islander?

Sicily/Malta.

[Deymark321]

Then how do you explain that R1b-L23 was found in a lot of IE steppe samples?
You can't judge where some haplogroup came from based on current distribution. If it was as easy as that, we could make tons of wrong conclusions, for example, that I1 is native in Scandinavia (even though it didn't enter it before Neolithic), and that most of R1b came from Ireland.
Not even going to comment on statement that R1a-Z280 is not Slavic.

In what steppe?I would expect it to be the majority in lower Pontic steppe.(where most r1b were found in Yamnaya, where as the further west the more r1a was)
R1b-Z280 is not slavic, its baltic(it is very very few in balkans) and it spread satem language way before slavs.

[Insuperable]

Z280 is not slavic.M458 is.Z280 is what spread the satem languages way before slavs in this area.
R1b-l23 came from Anatolia and its not any assumption or my assumption.R1b-l23 is crystal clear that it came from Anatolia as farmers even today the bulk is there.They were associated with hittites, phyrigians...

https://rokus01.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/l23.png

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L23.gif

Ht-35 is group name for L-23 and all of it clades and subclades (those present in Balkans, those present in central and northern Europe, and those present in Anatolia and the Middle East) except U106 and S116. Just because it shows higher density in Anatolia does not have to mean that all of it came through Anatolia. Do you maybe know which clades are older, those in the Balkans and central and northern Europe or others?

[Deymark321]

[i

What a load of shit that map is, and that j2 farmers were blue eyed made me hysterically laugh.

[Wrong]

What a load of shit that map is, and that j2 farmers were blue eyed made me hysterically laugh.
G2 are the only attested Farmers.

I got blue eyes.

[Dick]

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3486/9101/original.jpg

BRODER

[cosmoo]

In what steppe?I would expect it to be the majority in lower Pontic steppe.(where most r1b were found in Yamnaya, where as the further west the more r1a was)
R1b-Z280 is not slavic, its baltic(it is very very few in balkans) and it spread satem language way before slavs.
I posted finds of R1b (with good deal being L23) from Yamnaya samples above. It can definitely not be classified as Neolithic farmer haplogroup.
R1a-Z280 can be also described as Balto-Slavic, but to say proto-Slavs didn't carry it is ridiculous.


http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3486/9101/original.jpg
It shows I2 as being majority haplogroup among Illyrians, Dacians and Thracians, which is wrong.
Also shows I haplogroup as "Proto-Germanic/Nordic", even though proto-Germanic culture emerged from blend of R1b-U106, R1a-Z284, and various I clades (I1 mostly).

[GoneWithTheWind]

Proto-greek speakers were most then likely R1a.
Ev13 was the pre-greek in the Greek territory, same as I2 were the indigenous one in balkans, excluding Greece.



proto-siptars were more than likely J2b.

There are subclades of r1a and I2 in albos etc that do not even exist in Slavic speakers lol. You need to look and find it's subclade first and not treat every i2 or r1a as all the same. I2a din came from Poland but there is another type of I2 I've seen in Albos that is older in the Balkans most likely or atleast older than Slavic migrations that happened during the late Roman empire.

Ev 13 peaks in the Balkans but it is widespread in Europe. It surely could not of all come with imaginary Greek colonisations. It was spread In Europe before even these Greek colonisations took place let alone the Balkans. It has been associated with ancient Greek colonisation outside of Europe however

[Wrong]

There are subclades of r1a and I2 in albos etc that do not even exist in Slavic speakers lol. You need to look and find it's subclade first and not treat every i2 or r1a as all the same. I2a din came from Poland but there is another type of I2 I've seen in Albos that is older in the Balkans most likely or atleast older than Slavic migrations that happened during the late Roman empire.

Ev 13 peaks in the Balkans but it is widespread in Europe. It surely could not of all come with imaginary Greek colonisations. It was spread In Europe before even these Greek colonisations took place let alone the Balkans

R1a was zero % in the Balkans until Slavic migrations.

Gipsy clade exists in Romania:

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-Z93-Eurasia.png

[wvwvw]

Because it's a Thracian duh. 4 Thracian samples. Ev 13. J2 and r1b possibly more than r1a. Surely all these findings of ancient cannot be Greeks. Greeks colonized some coastal areas. It's not as if they mass settled there.

Basically an ancient balkanite med similar to a Greek, Bulgarian and Albo

Get an education. Greeks were everywhere. Greeks definitely went to the north from 2500 to 2000 BC beyond any doubt as well as other Greeks went later.
They used to call those Greek settlers of the north "Ypervoreious". Even the name Baltic is of Greek origin and it was Pytheas the explorer from Masalia, the man who named this place like this. Other names of the north like Albion and Scotia have Greek origin. We know that the ancient British language was Trojan Greek. It was called rough Greek and therefore would have been similar to the Macedonian, Cretan and Cypriots dialects.

The Minoan Greeks ruled all of Europe, the Mediterranean and India. The Balkans had already conquered by Greeks when the conquered Troy. All the Barbarians that came to assist Troy were resoundingly defeated.

All Indo-European religions are based on the historical hykos Minoan period kings of Greece who ruled Europe, Asia-Minor, Palestine and Egypt who lived before the Thera Eruption which caused the Ogygian Deluge, the destruction of Mygdoni (Midgard/Macedonia) at the time of Ragnorok which is identified by Norse historians as Greece, Noah's flood, the flood of Xisuthrus as referred to by Berosus and the flood in the time of Manu Vaivasvata who all lived at the same time.

[GoneWithTheWind]

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3486/9101/original.jpg

Man this is interesting. I also believed j2b in albos to be Indo European / proto shqiptar.

[Wrong]

Man this is interesting. I also believed j2b in albos to be Indo European / proto shqiptar.
Most Gegnian highlander clans seem to get J2b.

[wvwvw]

East Bulgaria Reveals Minoan Pertainence
January 18, 2005, Tuesday

The Eastern Rhodopes revealed an old-times funeral site obviously pertaining to an ancient Crete-Micenae cult dating 3,500 years ago.

The demographic researcher Mincho Gumarov of Kardzhali has donated the local museum with unique finds of ceramics, bronze and silver.

The artifacts from the late bronze epoch were found in the nearby Samara cave.

The find's pertainence to the epoch of legendary Micenae derives from the found labris (short two-face ritual axe, characteristic of that civilisation) and a silver amulet of the cult to Mother Earth, as well as pieces of surgery utensils.

Researchers suggested this finding confirmed some theories that the land of Eastern Rhodopes was once part of the Minoan culture and civilisation.
- See more at: http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=43688#sthash.99xV2n5N.dpuf

[wvwvw]

^^

That also proves the account of the Trojans being originally from Crete and then moving to Samothrace before taking the kingship of Troy. The Cretan migration to Troy happened in 1460 BC which is the late Minoan period.

Scamander/Xanthus the founder of Troy was the son of Triopas the king of Argos according to Hygenus.Erichtonius the king of Athens and Erichtonius the king of Troy were also
said to be linked. Dardania was actually founded by Idean Dactyls in 1700 BC who J.Faucounau has shown spoke a dialect of Ionic Greek. Faucounau has shown the inhabitants of Dardania originated to be Greek.

Fortunately as far as ancient Greece goes all the Minoan and Mycenaen archaeology corresponds to historical records. Troy is destroyed when Agamemnon destroyed it and 50 years earlier when Heracles destroyed it is also shown to have been destroyed. Thebes is destroyed at the time the Epigoni destroyed it. The Thera Eruption occurred at the time of the Ogygian Deluge. Linguistics shows that the Mycenaean's and Minoans spoke Greek and that's what they did etc.

[GoneWithTheWind]

Get an education. Greeks were everywhere. Greeks definitely went to the north from 2500 to 2000 BC beyond any doubt as well as other Greeks went later.
They used to call those Greek settlers of the north "Ypervoreious". Even the name Baltic is of Greek origin and it was Pytheas the explorer from Masalia, the man who named this place like this. Other names of the north like Albion and Scotia have Greek origin. We know that the ancient British language was Trojan Greek. It was called rough Greek and therefore would have been similar to the Macedonian, Cretan and Cypriots dialects.

The Minoan Greeks ruled all of Europe, the Mediterranean and India. The Balkans had already conquered by Greeks when the conquered Troy. All the Barbarians that came to assist Troy were resoundingly defeated.

All Indo-European religions are based on the historical hykos Minoan period kings of Greece who ruled Europe, Asia-Minor, Palestine and Egypt who lived before the Thera Eruption which caused the Ogygian Deluge, the destruction of Mygdoni (Midgard/Macedonia) at the time of Ragnorok which is identified by Norse historians as Greece, Noah's flood, the flood of Xisuthrus as referred to by Berosus and the flood in the time of Manu Vaivasvata who all lived at the same time.

"It is still unclear when haplogroup E first entered Europe. The earliest known prehistoric sample to date is an E-V13 from Catalonia dating from 5000 BCE. So we know for sure that E1b1b was present in southern Europe at least since the Early Neolithic. Nonetheless, the possibility of other migrations of E1b1b to southern Europe during the Mesolithic or Late Palaeolithic cannot be ruled out."

"The only concrete evidence for this at the moment is the presence of the E-V13 subclade, commonest in the southern Balkans today, at a 7000-year old Neolithic site in north-east Spain, which was tested by Lacan et al (2011). However, since E1b1b has not been found in any of the various Neolithic sites from the Balkans and Central Europe, it is more likely that the Catalan E-V13 individual was descended from Mediterranean Mesolithic hunter-gatherers."

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml

As if EV 13 only existed in greece until proto greeks came to greece, picked it up and spread it later. What a stupid theory. No offence.

Im not even sure that ev 13 is neolithic. Some of it could be so. It came and was spread by those cultures above and not Greeks

[Deymark321]

There arr

Interpretation of the Bosnia and Herzegovina Y-chromosome tree by Marjanović et al (28), according to which the territories of today’s Croatia and Bosnia
and Herzegovina were probably part of the Balkan Last Glacial Maximum refugium

Croatian Y-chromosome population structure according to data published by Semino et al (4) Approximately 45% of the examined Croatians probably
originated from the Old Europeans who mostly survived the Last Glacial Maximum (LG M) in the Western Balkan refugium. In addition, almost 30% of
them came from the Ukrainian LG M refugium and 10% from postglacial intrusion from Western Asia (20,21), previously described by Semino as Old Europeans
from Iberian refugium (4). The rest of the Croatian men (approximately 15%) originated from Early Farmers who brought agriculture into Europe

There is no way that E1b has something to do with Illyrians, as E1b couldn't introduce the language that illyrians-thracians-dacians etc spoke, a language that lived near proto-balto-slavs.

So most likely illyrians speaking people were R1a who illyrianised the I2a and this is perfectly logical.

[safinator]

Interpretation of the Bosnia and Herzegovina Y-chromosome tree by Marjanović et al (28), according to which the territories of today’s Croatia and Bosnia
and Herzegovina were probably part of the Balkan Last Glacial Maximum refugium

Croatian Y-chromosome population structure according to data published by Semino et al (4) Approximately 45% of the examined Croatians probably
originated from the Old Europeans who mostly survived the Last Glacial Maximum (LG M) in the Western Balkan refugium. In addition, almost 30% of
them came from the Ukrainian LG M refugium and 10% from postglacial intrusion from Western Asia (20,21), previously described by Semino as Old Europeans
from Iberian refugium (4). The rest of the Croatian men (approximately 15%) originated from Early Farmers who brought agriculture into Europe

There is no way that E1b has something to do with Illyrians, as E1b couldn't introduce the language that illyrians-thracians-dacians etc spoke, a language that lived near proto-balto-slavs.

So most likely illyrians speaking people were R1a who illyrianised the I2a and this is perfectly logical.[
:bowlol:

[Deymark321]

:bowlol:

:thumb001:

[Dianatomia]

Ev13 is Greco-Phoenician and its oldest subclade is found in Peloponnesus.

I thought it was Thessaly. Could you offer a source which says the oldest subclade was found in the Pelopnnese?

[GoneWithTheWind]

Interpretation of the Bosnia and Herzegovina Y-chromosome tree by Marjanović et al (28), according to which the territories of today’s Croatia and Bosnia
and Herzegovina were probably part of the Balkan Last Glacial Maximum refugium

Croatian Y-chromosome population structure according to data published by Semino et al (4) Approximately 45% of the examined Croatians probably
originated from the Old Europeans who mostly survived the Last Glacial Maximum (LG M) in the Western Balkan refugium. In addition, almost 30% of
them came from the Ukrainian LG M refugium and 10% from postglacial intrusion from Western Asia (20,21), previously described by Semino as Old Europeans
from Iberian refugium (4). The rest of the Croatian men (approximately 15%) originated from Early Farmers who brought agriculture into Europe

There is no way that E1b has something to do with Illyrians, as E1b couldn't introduce the language that illyrians-thracians-dacians etc spoke, a language that lived near proto-balto-slavs.

So most likely illyrians speaking people were R1a who illyrianised the I2a and this is perfectly logical.

So explain in your sockpuppet how ev13 got there. You think it came to Bosnia and Romania yesterday?

[Norka]

Thracians are proven E1BRODERS

[Coastal Elite]

Interesting to see Thracians, close brother of Dacians

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Does this means Albanians are Thraco (E1b) Illyrian (J2b2) mix ?