Togo - interwar Czech dreams about African colony

[Mikula]

The story sounds like some chapter from the life of fictional Czech character Jára Cimrman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1ra_Cimrman), but in early 1920s, part of Czech society actually belived that Czechoslovakia will receive a colony at Africa.

After WW1, as a results of Versailles agreement, Germany lost their colonies, includes Togoland (Togo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togo)) at Africa. Part of Czech enthusianists (or dreamers?), mainly Jan Havlasa (https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Havlasa) pushed to Czechoslovak government to ask for Togo. Official documents of Paris conference did not mention any Czechoslovak claim for the colony, but in Czech newspapers was in the postwar times published a lot of speculations about it.
Source in Czech (http://www.rozvojovka.cz/clanky/1021-ceska-kolonie-v-africe.htm)

http://files.viaweb.cz/image/kv/photos/2011/02/28/4463-cesko-kolonie.jpg

[Ülev]

I see. And this is why I saw Togo look alike people when wandered across Karlův most (The Charles Bridge) in Prague?


jk and bump

[Mikula]

I see. And this is why I saw Togo look alike people when wandered across Karlův most (The Charles Bridge) in Prague?


jk and bump

Do you mean the Prague sailors?
http://expositor.esy.es/gallery/lada/P1most1.JPG

[noricum]

How woud they have managed their colonies without even having access to the sea?

[Mikula]

How woud they have managed their colonies without even having access to the sea?

Czechoslovakia (and now Czech Republic) has rented area at Hamburg harbor (see Moldahaufen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldauhafen)) until 2028.
Czechoslovakia (despite it was a landlocked country) ahad a fleet also in postwar times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak_Sea_Shipping).
Anyway, to manage colonies overseas will not be profitable for Czechoslovakia, (nor for the colonies) :)

[Peterski]

http://i.imgur.com/k8ECf4o.jpg

[Mikula]

http://photos.libimseti.cz/img/070109/27e9882.jpg

[Rethel]

Since when Czechoslovakia = Czech? :heh:

[Ülev]

Since when Czechoslovakia = Czech? :heh:

http://www.d-o-l.cz/index.php/en

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube%E2%80%93Oder_Canal

https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/mgr.2015.23.issue-2/mgr-2015-0009/mgr-2015-0009.xml

[Peterski]

http://photos.libimseti.cz/img/070109/27e9882.jpg

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4093/4827141520_e864084e66_b.jpg

[Rethel]

http://www.d-o-l.cz/index.php/en

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube%E2%80%93Oder_Canal

https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/mgr.2015.23.issue-2/mgr-2015-0009/mgr-2015-0009.xml

You mean polish recolonization of southernlands?

http://img.sadistic.pl/pics/f68686f22d72.jpg

[Mikula]

Since when Czechoslovakia = Czech? :heh:

You are right:
During existence of Czechslovakia we can say:
Each Czech is a Czechoslovak, but not each Czechslovak is a Czech.
Nevertheless, the dreams about Togo was tied with part of Czech society, I did not find any notice about some individuals from Slovakia or Subcarpatian Ruthenia, who will ask a Togo for Czechoslovakia.
Anyway the dreams abou Togo were ridiculous.
We Czechs were not succesful to stay with so close Slovakia and Subcarpatian Ruthenia in one country, at all.
How it can work with Togo, what is so much distant (not only in geographical meaning) from our home?

[Ülev]

You mean polish recolonization of southernlands?

http://img.sadistic.pl/pics/f68686f22d72.jpg


M&M can't be happy now

[Mikula]

M&M can't be happy now

In our country we have simillar jokers, too:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJ093dOCUAEndVT.jpg

[Rethel]

How it can work with Togo, what is so much distant (not only in geographical meaning) from our home?

You should send there Szwejk.
He would explain Togonians, that
actually, they are Pepiks too :)

He was sometimes very convinsing,
especially, when others failed :laugh:

[Rethel]

In our country we have simillar jokers, too:

It was a reality, twice, first time, when
Krak was the ruler, and second, when
Bolesław conquered whole Czechoslovakia :p

http://republika.pl/blog_pa_496029/867266/tr/hwscan00104.jpg

[Mikula]

You should send there Szwejk.
He would explain Togonians, that
actually, they are Pepiks too :)

He was sometimes very convinsing,
especially, when others failed :laugh:

Josef Švejk will be ideal governer for Togo, indeed :)
http://www.databazeknih.cz/images_books/20_/204505/big_svejk-v-halici-204505.jpg

[Mikula]

It was a reality, twice, first time, when
Krak was the ruler, and second, when
Bolesław conquered whole Czechoslovakia :p

Přemyslids had Cracow some time ,too.
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/specialy/nejvetsicech/img/historie/mapa4b.gif
Přemysl II. Otakar hold Austrian lands
https://leporelo.info/pics/pic/premysl_ii._otakar_.jpg

Charles IV. owned wholes Silesia, Lusatia and Brandeburg.
http://historie.lusa.cz/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/t08.jpg

What does it mean, today? Nothing - as well as the maps, uploaded by you.

[Rethel]

What does it mean, today? Nothing - as well as the map, uplloaded by you.

The last one, was actualy a King of Germany,
and he made from Prague, the capital of whole
Empire, so, you know, not good example :p

[Mikula]

The last one, was actualy a King of Germany,
and he made from Prague, the capital of whole
Empire, so, you know, not good example :p

Charles IV. was both
1) King of Bohemia - and with this title he ruled over Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia and Lusatia
2) King and later Emperor of Holy Roman Empire - and in this title ruled (formally) over resting parts of the Empire

[Rethel]

Charles IV. was both
1) King of Bohemia - and with this title he ruled over Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia and Lusatia
2) King and later Emperor of Holy Roman Empire - and in this title ruled (formally) over resting parts of the Empire

But Czechia was a part of the Empire, it wasn't an independent state.

[Mikula]

Holy Roman Empire was a cnglomerate of mumerous entites of various level of souverignity - Bohemian kings would be exempt from all future obligations to the Holy Roman Empire except for participation in the imperial councils. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#Kingdom_of_Bohemia)

[Rethel]

Holy Roman Empire was a cnglomerate of mumerous entites of various level of souverignity - Bohemian kings would be exempt from all future obligations to the Holy Roman Empire except for participation in the imperial councils. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#Kingdom_of_Bohemia)

And they were NOT independent entities.

United States is a conglomerat of states and
entities also, but no state is independent.

Do you want to tell me, that Czechia was
yet fully independent state at 1806? :)

[Mikula]

And they were NOT independent entities.

United States is a conglomerat of states and
entities also, but no state is independent.

Do you want to tell me, that Czechia was
yet fully independent state at 1806? :)

No, but you cannot compare situation in 19th century with 13th-15th centuries.

[Rethel]

No, but you cannot compare situation in 19th century with 13th-15th centuries.

I can, becasue in 13-15 Empire was more consolidate, than in 18th. :p

If the states would be independent, then Netherlands, Italian
states or Swiss would not have to fight for their independence,
and they would not have to gave it in 1648 becasue they would
be always independent. They werent. Czechia was since 890s
totaly dependent from Germany, and temporal more freedom
in some epocs, doesn;t change the thing, especially, when
the very Emperor was a King in Bohemia and did made the
Prague the capital of the whole Empire.

[Mikula]

I can, becasue in 13-15 Empire was more consolidate, than in 18th. :p

If the states would be independent, then Netherlands, Italian
states or Swiss would not have to fight for their independence,
and they would not have to gave it in 1648 becasue they would
be always independent. They werent. Czechia was since 890s.


Bohemia became a part of H.R. Empire since 11th century, I dont know why you mention 890s?

And as I wrote before: H.R. Empire in Middle Ages was not centralized-unified country.
Once I read a bonmot that
Holy Roman Empire of German Nation was not actually holy, nor Roman nor even Empire.
I can add tha it was not of German Nation, at all :)
totaly dependent from Germany, and temporal more freedom
in some epocs, doesn;t change the thing, especially, when
the very Emperor was a King in Bohemia and did made the
Prague the capital of the whole Empire.

[Rethel]

Bohemia became a part of H.R. Empire since 11th century, I dont know why you mention 890s?

Then first time czech princes made a homage to east Frankish king.
Constant dependence began since 930s and 50s.


And as I wrote before: H.R. Empire in Middle Ages was not centralized-unified country.
Once I read a bonmot that
Holy Roman Empire of German Nation was not actually holy, nor Roman nor even Empire.
I can add tha it was not of German Nation, at all :)
totaly dependent from Germany, and temporal more freedom
in some epocs, doesn;t change the thing, especially, when
the very Emperor was a King in Bohemia and did made the
Prague the capital of the whole Empire.

Fact remains - was not independent :)
In some times had much freedom, and maybe
even acted as would be independent, but was not.

[Bobby Martnen]

I miss the age of Imperialism.