MONEY's YDNA-37 results

[GoneWithTheWind]

Note : my 37 and 25 marker matches don't show up on the map and also a lot of 12 marker matches missing.

http://i.share.pho.to/de168ba7_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/6a493a0b_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/6e0d7283_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/6d3beddf_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/49ee4798_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/f00aea7d_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/b6168956_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/3f86add3_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/375344f3_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/2978822a_o.png

[GoneWithTheWind]

Bump

[gültekin]

congrats, you have 2 match from kosovo with 37 marker, do they have SNP results ?
what says http://www.ysearch.org/ ?

[GoneWithTheWind]

congrats, you have 2 match from kosovo with 37 marker, do they have SNP results ?
what says http://www.ysearch.org/ ?

I have no idea what snp are. I'm a newb to this. Autosomal 23andme seems less complicated. So I'm gonna do that.

I haven't tried ysearch. The other Albanian matches I got only tested 12 marker. I also got 3 Turks. All claim origin from the Balkans and migrated to Anatolia during first Balkan war. One listed his most distant ancestors as hailing from Macedonia and the other one Greece. The other one seems to be a circassian Turk. The Sicily match I get is a Arbereshe.

[gültekin]

I have no idea what snp are. I'm a newb to this. Autosomal 23andme seems less complicated. So I'm gonna do that.

I haven't tried ysearch. The other Albanian matches I got only tested 12 marker. I also got 3 Turks. All claim origin from the Balkans and migrated to Anatolia during first Balkan war. One listed his most distant ancestors as hailing from Macedonia and the other one Greece. The other one seems to be a circassian Turk. The Sicily match I get is a Arbereshe.
aDNA is an different case.
I guess you want to know the origin and subclade of your y-dna ? then an advice to you: do not waste anymore your money for STR's (y-12 y37 y64 etc.) and save it for Big-Y ; the only worthy test which can give you deep info about your line.

[Voskos]

your clade arrived to the balkans from the caucasus some thousands of years ago.

[gültekin]

your clade arrived to the balkans from the caucasus some thousands of years ago.
his subclade is not jet known, his clade is not even confirmed, just predicted lol

[wvwvw]

I would also like to find out more about my father's ydna

[Wrong]

your clade arrived to the balkans from the caucasus some thousands of years ago.
Is normal, as did many other haplos who didn't come from India, Africa or Central Asia.

Your Y-dna T arrived straight outta Africa.

[GoneWithTheWind]

aDNA is an different case.
I guess you want to know the origin and subclade of your y-dna ? then an advice to you: do not waste anymore your money for STR's (y-12 y37 y64 etc.) and save it for Big-Y ; the only worthy test which can give you deep info about your line.

I also wanna know autosomal but what can big y tell you?


your clade arrived to the balkans from the caucasus some thousands of years ago.

Yes. It most likely did and could of migrated through the steppes. It could be proto illyrian or something. A lot of my matches are northern so it's possible we split around there somewhere thousands of years ago.

[GoneWithTheWind]

his subclade is not jet known, his clade is not even confirmed, just predicted lol

It is according to trojet who I split from about 1000 years or something. We are both j2b2 l283. Mostly Albanian dominated subclade

[Wrong]

I also wanna know autosomal but what can big y tell you?



Yes. It most likely did and could of migrated through the steppes. It could be proto illyrian or something. A lot of my matches are northern so it's possible we split around there somewhere thousands of years ago.

It's insignificant to point out where it originated from as it's been 11000+ years ago since it left Caucasus according to tmrca.
Thevillager is a "Greek" with T-haplogroup directly from Africa and attempted a hissyfit.

[gültekin]

I would also like to find out more about my father's ydna
https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/big-y/

$575

[Voskos]

It's insignificant to point out where it originated from as it's been 11000+ years ago since it left Caucasus according to tmrca.
Thevillager is a "Greek" with T-haplogroup directly from Africa and attempted a hissyfit.

cool story. Even albanians have haplogroup T.

https://snag.gy/0h8ElY.jpg

[Wrong]

cool story. Even albanians have haplogroup T.




3.3% with a small sample size of 30. Virtually nothing.

Larger sample size reduces it to 0.9%.

And the reference says "LT". It's probably y-dna L like Archie, so virtually no T haplo in Albania.

[Hoxhaism]

cool story. Even albanians have haplogroup T.

https://snag.gy/0h8ElY.jpg

*says we are from caucasus*
*has georgian flag under profile*

[wvwvw]

It's insignificant to point out where it originated from as it's been 11000+ years ago since it left Caucasus according to tmrca.
Thevillager is a "Greek" with T-haplogroup directly from Africa and attempted a hissyfit.

Of course he is a Greek. As much as Loki who has a ydna Ev13 is British..does his ydna make him any less British?

[Dick]

https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/big-y/

$575

DID YOU DO IT GULT?

[Voskos]

3.3% with a small sample size of 30. Virtually nothing.

Larger sample size reduces it to 0.9%.

And the reference says "LT". It's probably y-dna L like Archie, so virtually no T haplo in Albania.


3.3% with a small sample size of 30. Virtually nothing.

Larger sample size reduces it to 0.9%.

And the reference says "LT". It's probably y-dna L like Archie, so virtually no T haplo in Albania.

T split from LT, which split from IJK and therefore isnt African. Stupid idiot rofl...

[Wrong]

Of course he is a Greek. As much as Loki who has a ydna Ev13 is British..does that make him less British?
Yeah, but T is directly from Africa. As much as J2b2 is from Caucasus.

He got very provoked when I said he looks like an Arab, dont blame me :D

[Skerdilaid]

aDNA is an different case.
I guess you want to know the origin and subclade of your y-dna ? then an advice to you: do not waste anymore your money for STR's (y-12 y37 y64 etc.) and save it for Big-Y ; the only worthy test which can give you deep info about your line.

He is J-Z1296 - confirmed by his two matches that have done bigy: an Albanian from Macedonia and the Arberesh from Sicily.

[gültekin]

I also wanna know autosomal but what can big y tell you?



Yes. It most likely did and could of migrated through the steppes. It could be proto illyrian or something. A lot of my matches are northern so it's possible we split around there somewhere thousands of years ago.
İt will say to you your exact subclade , age, when , from what and where split your subclade.and if you are lucky will say your direct cousines, do with SNP's if they have already tested.

[Wrong]

T split from LT, which split from IJK and therefore isnt African. Stupid idiot rofl...
T source is from Africa, look downstream.
This is why you look Saudi, because of this African mixture.

[Voskos]

*says we are from caucasus*
*has georgian flag under profile*

i didnt say you were from caucasus, I said J2b originated there...

[Wrong]

He is J-Z1296 - confirmed by his two matches that have done bigy: an Albanian from Macedonia and the Arberesh from Sicily.
Could be related to mine. I am getting FTDNA also.

[Wrong]

i didnt say you were from caucasus, I said J2b originated there...
As much as T is from Africa. Dont blame me, blame the haplo :D

From Africa it went straight to Crete.

[Skerdilaid]

Could be related to mine. I am getting FTDNA also.

Hard to say, J2b2 among the clans we have tested so far has shown to be quite divers. Yeah, you should test at ftdna, bro - it's not that expensive either, much cheaper than getting a kit from 23andme (make sure though go through our project so you get our discount).

[gültekin]

He is J-Z1296 - confirmed by his two matches that have done bigy: an Albanian from Macedonia and the Arberesh from Sicily.
it can't be confirm with str's, only with SNP test it can be confirmed. STR matches can misleading, only 1 match among my 20 STR matches is from my subclade. if the SNP's of his matches already offered for test by FTDNA could be helpfull , so he can buy

[Skerdilaid]

it can't be confirm with str's, only with SNP test it can be confirmed. STR matches can misleading, only 1 match among my 20 STR matches is from my subclade. if the SNP's of his matches already offered for test by FTDNA could be helpfull , so he can buy

Of course it can, when he is matching them, especially the Arberesh from Sicily, that closely. He is basically in the same cluster.

[Dick]

it can't be confirm with str's, only with SNP test it can be confirmed. STR matches can misleading, only 1 match among my 20 STR matches is from my subclade. if the SNP's of his matches already offered for test by FTDNA could be helpfull , so he can buy

YOU HAVE A POINT THERE OR MAYBE HE SHOULD JUST UPGRADE TO 67 MARKERS. I HAVE ALOT OF BAKERS WHO DID 67 MARKERS(THE ONLY MATCHES THAT SHOW UP WITH STRS AND WERE ASSINGED AS BEING PART OF MY SUBCLADE FROM MY STR MATCHES) AND NONE DID THE BIG Y BUT WERE ASSIGNED TO MY SUBCLADE BY FTDNA.

[gültekin]

Of course it can, when he is matching them, especially the Arberesh from Sicily, that closely. He is basically in the same cluster.
1 distant match ? not even my 0 distant str match is from my subclade

[Voskos]

As much as T is from Africa. Dont blame me, blame the haplo :D

From Africa it went straight to Crete.

why dont you post a variance map to prove your claims?like this one:

frequency of your anatolian J2b haplogroup on the left, variance on the right.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v17/n6/images/ejhg2008249f4.jpg

[gültekin]

YOU HAVE A POINT THERE OR MAYBE HE SHOULD JUST UPGRADE TO 67 MARKERS. I HAVE ALOT OF BAKERS WHO DID 67 MARKERS(THE ONLY MATCHES THAT SHOW UP WITH STRS AND WERE ASSINGED AS BEING PART OF MY SUBCLADE FROM MY STR MATCHES) AND NONE DID THE BIG Y BUT WERE ASSIGNED TO MY SUBCLADE BY FTDNA.
NO WASTE MONEY FOR STR, SAVE IT AND BUY SNP

[Dick]

ACTUALLY WAIT I SEE HE DID 67 MARKERS OR NO?. DID YOU JOIN ANY J FTDNA GROUPS, MONEY?

[Wrong]

why


10 year old outdated sources hold no scientific ground. Map is wrong, Greece - not Bosnia has the biggest variety of EV13. J2b has the highest variety in the Balkans, while J2a is Caucaso-Anatolian, Turks have J2a while they don't have J2b.

While your y-dna T from Africa does have the highest variety in Africa, if you are lucky, you may be Dravidian:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Distribution_Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA_II.svg/1280px-Distribution_Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA_II.svg.png

[GoneWithTheWind]

ACTUALLY WAIT I SEE HE DID 67 MARKERS OR NO?. DID YOU JOIN ANY J FTDNA GROUPS, MONEY?

No, I only did 37. Yes, I'm part of one. Got automatically added I think

[Dick]

No, I only did 37. Yes, I'm part of one. Got automatically added I think

THATS RIGHT. TROJET'S. JOIN MORE GROUPS

[Voskos]

10 year old outdated sources hold no scientific ground.

While your y-dna T from Africa does, if you are lucky, you may be Dravidian:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Distribution_Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA_II.svg/1280px-Distribution_Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA_II.svg.png

i asked for a variation map, you posted a prevalence one. huge fail, anatolian .

[Wrong]

i asked for a variation map, you posted a prevalence one. huge fail, anatolian .
Moorish Eastern Africans brought y-T.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Crete

A group of Andalusian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus) exiles conquered Crete in c. 824 or in 827/828, quickly establishing an independent state. Numerous attempts by the Byzantine Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire) to recover the island failed disastrously, and for the approximately 135 years of its existence, the emirate was one of the major foes of Byzantium.

[Skerdilaid]

1 distant match ? not even my 0 distant str match is from my subclade

He matches the Arbereshe that has done the bigy GD of 3 on 37 markers. Another Albanian that Money matches GD of 1 on 37 has tested all the way up to 111 markers, and he matches the Arbereshe guy GD of 10 on 111. It's not just him, few other Albanians belong to this cluster. Mind you, the Albanian from Macedonia, Trojet, that has done bigy only matches the Arbereshe guy GD of 6 on 37 and both have confirmed that they belong to the same snp via bigy.

They certainly are genealogical matches.

[Voskos]

Moorish Eastern Africans brought y-T.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Crete

A group of Andalusian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus) exiles conquered Crete in c. 824 or in 827/828, quickly establishing an independent state. Numerous attempts by the Byzantine Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire) to recover the island failed disastrously, and for the approximately 135 years of its existence, the emirate was one of the major foes of Byzantium.

The mediterranean islands (aegean, crete, ibiza) have much higher frequencies of T than Arabs and North Africans. So try again.

[Wrong]

The mediterranean islands (aegean, crete, ibiza) have much higher frequencies of T than Arabs and North Africans. So try again.
Moors had huge numbers of Hamites aka East Africans among them. Your direct paternal ancestry is from there and may be why you got your non-viril vocal chords.

We discussed this before and you firmly accepted that you are part- SSA African, did you have a new revelation today?

[Voskos]

Moors had huge numbers of Hamites aka East Africans among them. Your direct paternal ancestry is from there and may be why you got your non-viril vocal chords.

We discussed this before and you firmly accepted that you are part- SSA African, did you have a new revelation today?

T1a has been in europe since the neolithic (see neolithic german ancient genomes), has split from IJK---K---LT which is posterior to out of africa migration, and its most basal haplotype is found in Eurasia. but you can keep chimping all day since you're unable to cope with my posts.

As a side note , my patrilinear ancestor is the only person in my genealogical tree who settled in Crete from another southern European country in the 17th century.


We discussed this before and you firmly accepted that you are part- SSA African, did you have a new revelation today?

yes , that of your never ending butthurt.

[gültekin]

He matches the Arbereshe that has done the bigy GD of 3 on 37 markers. Another Albanian that Money matches GD of 1 on 37 has tested all the way up to 111 markers, and he matches the Arbereshe guy GD of 10 on 111. It's not just him, few other Albanians belong to this cluster. Mind you, the Albanian from Macedonia, Trojet, that has done bigy only matches the Arbereshe guy GD of 6 on 37 and both have confirmed that they belong to the same snp via bigy.

They certainly are genealogical matches.
yes now i see, you could be right
https://s18.postimg.org/hsa499ip5/z1296.png
he can also buy for $39.00 Z1296 snp for confirming , still he can be have a new subclade splitted from Z1296 like in my case. i was just VL-67 for months ago, now turned out to VL-85 (
https://s22.postimg.org/4r6aph0dd/SNP_N_TREE_L666.jpg

[Wrong]

yes , that of your never ending butthurt.
Is why they call you Arab, not me.
T is a newcomer that was not established well in the mainland and did not exist when the Greeks and Trojans battled. It almost arrived 2000 years after that.

Your haplogroup reflects your look, which makes you an arab, while I look like a Thracian warhero from the Ancient times.

[Voskos]

Is why they call you Arab, not me.
T is a newcomer that was not established well in the mainland and did not exist when the Greeks and Trojans battled.

Like I said my patrilinear ancestor isnt from Crete, he came from Italy in the 17th century and settled in the island. Hell , even my surname is Italian so I see no reason to claim my haplogroup comes from Ancient Greeks.

However I still dont see why youre butthurting so intensely about my initial comments, which werent even directed to you.

[Wrong]

Like I said my patrilinear ancestor isnt from Crete, he came from Italy in the 17th century and settled in the island. Hell , even my surname is Italian so I see no reason to claim my haplogroup comes from Ancient Greeks.

However I still dont see why youre butthurting so intensely about my initial comments, which werent even directed to you.

It simply works like this: If you aren't E-V13, R1b-L23 & J2b, then you aren't from the Balkans.

J2b1 well established among South Slavs.
J2b2 well established among Albanians.
Vlachs have a bit of both.
Both clades split north of Balkans, there are also Merovingian Frank Nobility samples with the clades.

[Skerdilaid]

yes now i see, you could be right
https://s18.postimg.org/hsa499ip5/z1296.png
he can also buy for $39.00 Z1296 snp for confirming , still he can be have a new subclade splitted from Z1296 like in my case. i was just VL-67 for months ago, now turned out to VL-85 (
https://s22.postimg.org/4r6aph0dd/SNP_N_TREE_L666.jpg

I understand, but no need to, he most certainly falls within PH1751, below Z1296 like both of them:https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z1296/

The one listed as 'ITA' is the Arberesh from Sicily. Now as you can see they match each other only GD of 6 on 37 and their TMRCA has been estimated by yfull to be 1150ybp. Money's and Arbereshe TMRCA is probably 600-500ybp, so they seem to have split roughly around 1400s - just before the Arbereshe migrated to Italy.

[Voskos]

It simply works like this: If you aren't E-V13, R1b-L23 & J2b, then you aren't from the Balkans.

J2b1 well established among South Slavs.
J2b2 well established among Albanians.
Vlachs have a bit of both.
Both clades split north of Balkans, there are also Merovingian Frank Nobility samples with the clades.

yes, but you have to accept that it arrived from neolithic iran===>caucasus=====>anatolia in the post neolithic era. same way i accepted my haplogroup was somewhere between the caucasus and central asia before spreading into europe during the neolithic.

Truth is truth and only men can face it.

[Wrong]

yes, but you have to accept that it arrived from neolithic iran===>caucasus=====>anatolia in the post neolithic era. same way i accepted my haplogroup was somewhere between the caucasus and central asia before spreading into europe during the neolithic era.

Truth is truth and only men can face it.

Balkanites have almost no Neolithic Iran component, so it did not come from there as it did not carry any of it.
J2b2 did not arrive from Anatolia, but from the steppe direction and is not a Neolithic haplogroup.

J2b has a quite different distribution from J2a. J2b seems to have a stronger association with the Neolithic and Chalcolithic cultures of Southeast Europe. It is particularly common in the Balkans, Central Europe and Italy, which is roughly the extent of the European Copper Age (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/map_diffusion_chalcolithic.shtml) culture. Its maximum frequency is achieved around Albania, Kosovo, Montenegro and Northwest Greece - the part of the Balkans which best resisted the Slavic invasions in the Early Middle Ages.

Nowadays J2b2 is found chiefly in south-east and Central Europe, but also in Russia and throughout the Indian subcontinent. All these elements reinforce the hypothesis that J2b2 and G2a3b1 were two minor lineages spread within an R1a-dominant population during the Indo-Aryan invasions (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Indo-Iranian) of South Asia approximately 3,500 years ago.

Another conceivable possibility is that a minority of J2b2, G2a3b1 and R1b-M269 from the Caucasus region migrated to the Volga-Ural region in the early Bronze Age, propagating with them the Proto-Indo-European language and bronze technology to the Caspian steppe before the expansion of this new culture to Central and South Asia. The drawback of this hypothesis is that it doesn't explain why R1b lineages strongly outnumber J2b2 and G2a3b1 in Europe but not in South Asia.

The vast majority of J2b lineages belong to J2b2 and its subclades. While J2b* and J2b1 lineages are mostly restricted to the Caucasus, Anatolia and the Balkans, J2b2 is also found in the Pontic Steppe, in Central Asia and in South Asia, particularly in India. Its very low frequency in the Middle East though suggests that, unlike other J2 lineages it was not disseminated by a demic diffusion of the Neolithic lifestyle.


Good candidate for Proto-Indo-European

[GoneWithTheWind]

Balkanites have almost no Neolithic Iran component, so it did not come from there as it did not carry any of it.
J2b2 did not arrive from Anatolia, but from the steppe direction and is not a Neolithic haplogroup.

J2b has a quite different distribution from J2a. J2b seems to have a stronger association with the Neolithic and Chalcolithic cultures of Southeast Europe. It is particularly common in the Balkans, Central Europe and Italy, which is roughly the extent of the European Copper Age (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/map_diffusion_chalcolithic.shtml) culture. Its maximum frequency is achieved around Albania, Kosovo, Montenegro and Northwest Greece - the part of the Balkans which best resisted the Slavic invasions in the Early Middle Ages.

Nowadays J2b2 is found chiefly in south-east and Central Europe, but also in Russia and throughout the Indian subcontinent. All these elements reinforce the hypothesis that J2b2 and G2a3b1 were two minor lineages spread within an R1a-dominant population during the Indo-Aryan invasions (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Indo-Iranian) of South Asia approximately 3,500 years ago.

Another conceivable possibility is that a minority of J2b2, G2a3b1 and R1b-M269 from the Caucasus region migrated to the Volga-Ural region in the early Bronze Age, propagating with them the Proto-Indo-European language and bronze technology to the Caspian steppe before the expansion of this new culture to Central and South Asia. The drawback of this hypothesis is that it doesn't explain why R1b lineages strongly outnumber J2b2 and G2a3b1 in Europe but not in South Asia.

The vast majority of J2b lineages belong to J2b2 and its subclades. While J2b* and J2b1 lineages are mostly restricted to the Caucasus, Anatolia and the Balkans, J2b2 is also found in the Pontic Steppe, in Central Asia and in South Asia, particularly in India. Its very low frequency in the Middle East though suggests that, unlike other J2 lineages it was not disseminated by a demic diffusion of the Neolithic lifestyle.


Good candidate for Proto-Indo-European

I agree.

[Voskos]

Balkanites have almost no Neolithic Iran component, so it did not come from there as it did not carry any of it.
J2b2 did not arrive from Anatolia, but from the steppe direction and is not a Neolithic haplogroup.

J2b has a quite different distribution from J2a. J2b seems to have a stronger association with the Neolithic and Chalcolithic cultures of Southeast Europe. It is particularly common in the Balkans, Central Europe and Italy, which is roughly the extent of the European Copper Age (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/map_diffusion_chalcolithic.shtml) culture. Its maximum frequency is achieved around Albania, Kosovo, Montenegro and Northwest Greece - the part of the Balkans which best resisted the Slavic invasions in the Early Middle Ages.

Nowadays J2b2 is found chiefly in south-east and Central Europe, but also in Russia and throughout the Indian subcontinent. All these elements reinforce the hypothesis that J2b2 and G2a3b1 were two minor lineages spread within an R1a-dominant population during the Indo-Aryan invasions (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Indo-Iranian) of South Asia approximately 3,500 years ago.

Another conceivable possibility is that a minority of J2b2, G2a3b1 and R1b-M269 from the Caucasus region migrated to the Volga-Ural region in the early Bronze Age, propagating with them the Proto-Indo-European language and bronze technology to the Caspian steppe before the expansion of this new culture to Central and South Asia. The drawback of this hypothesis is that it doesn't explain why R1b lineages strongly outnumber J2b2 and G2a3b1 in Europe but not in South Asia.

The vast majority of J2b lineages belong to J2b2 and its subclades. While J2b* and J2b1 lineages are mostly restricted to the Caucasus, Anatolia and the Balkans, J2b2 is also found in the Pontic Steppe, in Central Asia and in South Asia, particularly in India. Its very low frequency in the Middle East though suggests that, unlike other J2 lineages it was not disseminated by a demic diffusion of the Neolithic lifestyle.


Good candidate for Proto-Indo-European


ftdna has it arriving from the levant and genographic project from anatolia via the fertile crescent. But it could still be the missing link between European and non -european Indoeuropeans, given the fact its the only ''caucasoid'' haplogroup with a distribution ranging from south eurasia all the way up to the british isles. I personally believe indo-IE languages developped when J2 people mixed with paleo-eurasian I and R1b-carriers.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8388/8675629245_0f99cf87c3_o.jpg

[Voskos]

I understand, but no need to, he most certainly falls within PH1751, below Z1296 like both of them:https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z1296/

The one listed as 'ITA' is the Arberesh from Sicily. Now as you can see they match each other only GD of 6 on 37 and their TMRCA has been estimated by yfull to be 1150ybp. Money's and Arbereshe TMRCA is probably 600-500ybp, so they seem to have split roughly around 1400s - just before the Arbereshe migrated to Italy.

TMRCAs arent very reliable, they differ based on the mutation rate used for calculation and the result can be flawed. For example an STR haplotype in the Balkans can be falsely assigned as early slavic instead of ancient balkanic and vice versa, based on the tmrca result. see dienekes false calculations where he draws the conclusion that e-v13 in albania is of recent Greek origin...

But yeah most italians matching balkanites are usually arbereshe like in OP's case.

[Skerdilaid]

TMRCAs arent very reliable, they differ based on the mutation rate used for calculation and the result can be flawed. For example an STR haplotype in the Balkans can be falsely assigned as early slavic instead of ancient balkanic and vice versa, based on the tmrca result. see dienekes false calculations where he draws the conclusion that e-v13 in albania is of recent Greek origin...

But yeah most italians matching balkanites are usually arbereshe like in OP's case.

Probably my guesstimate between Money and the Arberesh dude is off, but when we are speaking about the two fellas that have done bigy and have gotten yfull analyses, it's as good as it can get (yfull are the best in the business, also the reason why ftdna collaborates with them). Not sure where you're getting at and neither have I heard of such a case as of yet. STR markers are not the perfect way to estimate TMRCA but still are extremely useful for grouping results and predicting sub branches for people that can't afford NGS tests like bigy etc.

Dinekes flawed hypotheses, first of all, was never considered scientific and stank of your typical Greek bias from the get go. Second, he based his hypotheses on low resolution results (12 STR markers). For sure, especially when they are this close. Also, the person we are discussing here from Sicily knows his origins, kit# 107257: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/AlbanianBloodlines?iframe=yresults

[GoneWithTheWind]

Probably my guesstimate between Money and the Arberesh dude is off, but when we are speaking about the two fellas that have done bigy and have gotten yfull analyses, it's as good as it can get (yfull are the best in the business, also the reason why ftdna collaborates with them). Not sure where you're getting at and neither have I heard of such a case as of yet. STR markers are not the perfect way to estimate TMRCA but still are extremely useful for grouping results and predicting sub branches for people that can't afford NGS tests like bigy etc.

Dinekes flawed hypotheses, first of all, was never considered scientific and stank of your typical Greek bias from the get go. Second, he based his hypotheses on low resolution results (12 STR markers). For sure, especially when they are this close. Also, the person we are discussing here from Sicily knows his origins, kit# 107257: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/AlbanianBloodlines?iframe=yresults

Wasn't Palisi like a pre-Ottoman Albanian name/surname? I could swear I've heard it before. Or it could be Italian and they changed it like us going by what our old surname was.

[GoneWithTheWind]

TMRCAs arent very reliable, they differ based on the mutation rate used for calculation and the result can be flawed. For example an STR haplotype in the Balkans can be falsely assigned as early slavic instead of ancient balkanic and vice versa, based on the tmrca result. see dienekes false calculations where he draws the conclusion that e-v13 in albania is of recent Greek origin...

But yeah most italians matching balkanites are usually arbereshe like in OP's case.

I think even the Greek I got is an arvanite.

[Skerdilaid]

Wasn't Palisi like a pre-Ottoman Albanian name/surname? I could swear I've heard it before. Or it could be Italian and they changed it like us going by what our old surname was.

It's basically your typical Albanian name/last name Pali or Palaj (Paul) Italianized into Palisi.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Grats on the results. You got a healthy number of matches too. Tito must have killed all my matches in re-education camps.

https://s11.postimg.org/a7dh3qmur/Screen_Shot_2016_10_02_at_12_05_01_AM.png

[GoneWithTheWind]

Grats on the results. You got a healthy number of matches too. Tito must have killed all my matches in re-education camps.

https://s11.postimg.org/a7dh3qmur/Screen_Shot_2016_10_02_at_12_05_01_AM.png

Thanks. I got them some time ago but never got to making a thread till now.

It seems like some of my paternal ancestors migrated some places Greece, Italy, Turkey. Etc and got asimilated.

[Dema]

congrats

[Voskos]

Probably my guesstimate between Money and the Arberesh dude is off, but when we are speaking about the two fellas that have done bigy and have gotten yfull analyses, it's as good as it can get (yfull are the best in the business, also the reason why ftdna collaborates with them). Not sure where you're getting at and neither have I heard of such a case as of yet. STR markers are not the perfect way to estimate TMRCA but still are extremely useful for grouping results and predicting sub branches for people that can't afford NGS tests like bigy etc.

Dinekes flawed hypotheses, first of all, was never considered scientific and stank of your typical Greek bias from the get go. Second, he based his hypotheses on low resolution results (12 STR markers). For sure, especially when they are this close. Also, the person we are discussing here from Sicily knows his origins, kit# 107257: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/AlbanianBloodlines?iframe=yresults

I didn't say your guesstimate was off, I just said you can get different results based on how many markers are used, the mutation rates etc. yfull is probably just another commercial company .


Not sure where you're getting at and neither have I heard of such a case as of yet.

I2a, R1b, J2 and even e-v13 are still ambiguous as to when exactly they arrived in the balkans. every two or three papers geneticists change their mind and their estimates range from mesolithic origins to steppe hypotheses or phoenician settlers.

[Trojet]

There is no need for MONEY to waste anything on further testing, SNPs, or not even even BigY, as I see a couple of people not familiar with the haplogroup/results suggest. I know members from Albanian Bloodlines at FTDNA who would benefit from further testing and it's certainly not MONEY.

At 37 markers he is matching two people who have already taken the BigY. Also his 36/37 marker match (who is also from Kosove) is matching the BigY tester all the way to 111 markers (101/111). I have also taken the BigY, but do not match MONEY because on the first 12 markers I have DYS19=15, while everyone in this cluster has 14, and DYS392=10, while everyone 11. Which indicates an earlier split of my line, but nonetheless we're all related within about the last 1300 years - proven by BigY.

His BigY matches, including me, have proven to be J-Z1296+ PH1751+ (downstream of J2b2-L283). Therefore here is where he also belongs: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PH1751/

[GoneWithTheWind]

There is no need for MONEY to waste anything on further testing, SNPs, or not even even BigY, as I see a couple of people not familiar with the haplogroup/results suggest. I know members from Albanian Bloodlines at FTDNA who would benefit from further testing and it's certainly not MONEY.

At 37 markers he is matching two people who have already taken the BigY. Also his 36/37 marker match is matching the BigY tester all the way to 111 markers (101/111). I have also taken the BigY, but do not match MONEY because on the first 12 markers I have DYS19=15, while everyone in this cluster has 14, and DYS392=10, with everyone 11.

His BigY matches, including me, have proven to be J-Z1296+ PH1751+ (downstream of J2b2-L283). Therefore here is where he also belongs: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PH1751/

Thanks a lot. I'm gonna waste money on 23andme instead and then im done testing for good.

BTW, how were Fustans results and what j2b2 subclade did he get?

[Trojet]

Thanks a lot. I'm gonna waste money on 23andme instead and then im done testing for good.

BTW, how were Fustans results and what j2b2 subclade did he get?

FTDNA received Fustan's kit a couple of days ago, so we need to wait on his results.

His kit is only 12 markers, so most likely we won't know immediately where he belongs within J2b2. But his kit along with 6 J2b2's from N. Albania we got will be upgraded, so we'll know where they belong ;)

[Skerdilaid]

I didn't say your guesstimate was off, I just said you can get different results based on how many markers are used, the mutation rates etc. yfull is probably just another commercial company .



I2a, R1b, J2 and even e-v13 are still ambiguous as to when exactly they arrived in the balkans. every two or three papers geneticists change their mind and their estimates range from mesolithic origins to steppe hypotheses or phoenician settlers.

What do you mean different results? Your results don't change, the more markers you test the better and more accurate estimates can be predicted. When you do NGS test like bigy and get a yfull analyses, there is very little room for error. For the sake of the arguments, lets just say they might be off for like 100 or 200 years, how is that going to change for example the journey of I2a or R1a in the Balkans, or the expansion that R1b, J2b and E-V13 experienced about 4000 years ago? A Greek or Albanian R1a and I2a are still going to have cousins all over the Slavic world that split as recent as 2000 years ago give or take.

[Voskos]

What do you mean different results? Your results don't change, the more markers you test the better and more accurate estimates can be predicted. When you do NGS test like bigy and get a yfull analyses, there is very little room for error. For the sake of the arguments, lets just say they might be off for like 100 or 200 years, how is that going to change for example the journey of I2a or R1a in the Balkans, or the expansion that R1b, J2b and E-V13 experienced about 4000 years ago? A Greek or Albanian R1a and I2a are still going to have cousins all over the Slavic world that split as recent as 2000 years ago give or take.

I am referring to different results for tmrca, not different str results.

[GoneWithTheWind]

FTDNA received Fustan's kit a couple of days ago, so we need to wait on his results.

His kit is only 12 markers, so most likely we won't know immediately where he belongs within J2b2. But his kit along with 6 J2b2's from N. Albania we got will be upgraded, so we'll know where they belong ;)

Well since fustan is banned make sure to update here or something.

[Iloko]

I took the 12-marker Y-dna test @ FTDNA a few years ago and was assigned to haplogroup C-M216 ...Now if I upgrade to the 37-marker test is it possible that the Y-dna haplogroup I was assigned to will change to something else? Anyone?

[poiuytrewq0987]

I took the 12-marker Y-dna test @ FTDNA a few years ago and was assigned to haplogroup C-M216 ...Now if I upgrade to the 37-marker test is it possible that the Y-dna haplogroup I was assigned to will change to something else? Anyone?

It's possible that 67 or 111 will offer enough markers to allow you better guess the terminal YDNA. I did the Y-37 test and was still assigned to a generic E-M35 grouping. Nothing specific since there are not enough markers. For specificity, you need to do a panel test or Big Y.

[Dick]

I took the 12-marker Y-dna test @ FTDNA a few years ago and was assigned to haplogroup C-M216 ...Now if I upgrade to the 37-marker test is it possible that the Y-dna haplogroup I was assigned to will change to something else? Anyone?

NO. DO 67 OR 111

[Trojet]

Well since fustan is banned make sure to update here or something.

Of course cuz :)

[Skerdilaid]

I took the 12-marker Y-dna test @ FTDNA a few years ago and was assigned to haplogroup C-M216 ...Now if I upgrade to the 37-marker test is it possible that the Y-dna haplogroup I was assigned to will change to something else? Anyone?

Probabaly not but I think the best thing to do is upgrade to 37 and join a project. This way admins would assign you to a cluster and they can direct you from there. I would only upgrade to 67 or 111 if I wanted to do the bigy or see who holds up as genealogical match.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I match Fustan at 12 markers. Hes gonna test further to see

[Trojet]

Well since fustan is banned make sure to update here or something.


I match Fustan at 12 markers. Hes gonna test further to see

Fustan is confirmed PH1751+ so he belongs in the same J2b2 subclade. It's just a matter of how close he is (probably not very close). We'll find out soon when he is upgraded to Y37.

[Danaan]

Like I said my patrilinear ancestor isnt from Crete, he came from Italy in the 17th century and settled in the island. Hell , even my surname is Italian so I see no reason to claim my haplogroup comes from Ancient Greeks.

However I still dont see why youre butthurting so intensely about my initial comments, which werent even directed to you.

Venetians seem to have significant amounts of both L and T.

[poiuytrewq0987]

It's intriguing how you Albos have an easy time finding Albo relatives but I can not find one. :cry2

[GoneWithTheWind]

It's intriguing how you Albos have an easy time finding Albo relatives but I can not find one. :cry2

Such is life when you're ilyrian

[poiuytrewq0987]

Such is life when you're ilyrian

THIS IS DACO THRACIA.

https://media.tenor.co/images/a98e80b3a53d281c21587fe73a1621f6/tenor.gif

[GoneWithTheWind]

THIS IS DACO THRACIA.

https://media.tenor.co/images/a98e80b3a53d281c21587fe73a1621f6/tenor.gif

THIS IS THRACO-ILYRIA !!!!!!