Who have more Black African ancestry: Madeiran Portuguese, white Americans, or white South Africans?

[Sikeliot]

Basically the question is, which white people are the blackest? :p

In my opinion:

Afrikaners > Madeirans > white US southerners

My mother's Madeiran cousins on 23andme all range from having 0.5 to 5% West African, and I have a DNA cousin on GEDmatch who scores 7%. But I also imagine Afrikaners can score as much, if not more.

I do not believe white US southerners to, as a whole, have Sub-Saharan African ancestry.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

probably a portuguese with a white american being least in having african ancestry

[Sikeliot]

probably a portuguese with a white american being least in having african ancestry

Well not all Portuguese. Madeirans are Portuguese but like in the US with some white Americans, there was an absorption of the 10% African slave population into the white population, and we nearly all have traces of it. Also a small number have Cape Verdean ancestors (much like how my grandmother has some recent ones) who came to Madeira to find work in the 1800s, but this is not applicable to most.

[GoneWithTheWind]

White Americans don't like the idea of ssa ancestry but they like the idea of Cherokee ancestry.

[Cristiano viejo]

Kazimiera posted a lot of results of white South Afrikaaners in 23andme and they scored around 2% SSA there.
No idea about Madeirans or Dixie boys.

[Charles Bronson]

Greece, that for sure.

[Isleño]

White Americans don't like the idea of ssa ancestry but they like the idea of Cherokee ancestry.

That's absolutely true. Because blacks were considered slaves and held the lowest socioeconomic position. Amerinds were held in higher regard than blacks. Many white families have an Amerind ancestor story, but often the ancestor is too far back to have transferred any DNA to them. I have a white American friend who was told he is Irish, German, English and Cherokee. He took a DNA test and he was only 1% Amerind. Same story for blacks. Well actually blacks are often told they are part Indian when in fact they are part white. Blacks would lie about European ancestry and say it was Indian blood. I guess they had a dislike for whites lol

[Voskos]

Madeirans probably

[Cristiano viejo]

Madeirans probably

I think Madeirans dont score 2% in 23andme (I could be wrong), South Africans do.

[Sikeliot]

I think Madeirans dont score 2% in 23andme (I could be wrong), South Africans do.

I've seen Madeirans scoring 5%, but most are 2-3%. I have not yet seen any with none.

[TenaciousTopologist]

most white us southerners are not mixed with black.

[Cristiano viejo]

I've seen Madeirans scoring 5%, but most are 2-3%. I have not yet seen any with none.

Yes, and also South Africans reach these amounts, but the average is +-2%. Kazimiera made a thread about this.

[Smeagol]

Every Afrikaner result I saw scored some. Most White Americans don't score any.

[Sikeliot]

Every Afrikaner result I saw scored some. Most White Americans don't score any.

Yes. I only score it because I have Cape Verdean in me.

[DarknessWin]

Greece, that for sure.

Greece have max of 0 & 0.1% SSA , lower than north Europe actually

http://i62.tinypic.com/kbadzm.png

And this is without the African Slaves north Europe and France bought here ,
by the way Turkey have 0.3 %

[Cristiano viejo]

Every Afrikaner result I saw scored some. Most White Americans don't score any.

The thread is about Southerners, not about any American.

[Cristiano viejo]

http://i62.tinypic.com/kbadzm.png



That map sucks, show me a single dna test of any Spaniard who scores such amounts (Canarians dont count).

[Erronkari]

White South Africans in my opinion.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Southerners score anywhere from 0 to 3% usually... I'd say 0.5-1.5% for most I've seen. So, definitely one of the other two. My wife, who is 1/2 southern white american, (also, 1/4 british canadian, and 1/4 british from the old world directly) scores half a percent. So... About 1% from her southern side, I'd guess (her cousins of fully southern stock score 1-3% SSA).

[StonyArabia]

I think Portuguese, white Afrikaners, and white Americans in that order

[Isleño]

That map sucks, show me a single dna test of any Spaniard who scores such amounts (Canarians dont count).

Canarians don't count? You don't consider Canarians as Spaniards? I think you meant to say Iberian right?

[Cristiano viejo]

Canarians don't count? You don't consider Canarians as Spaniards? I think you meant to say Iberian right?

Genetically Canarians are different than Spaniards from the peninsula.

[Smeagol]

How much Berber ancestry do Canarians have?

[Blica19]

Azoreans aswell this is a kit of an Azorean man I know

https://i.imgur.com/5ivWyqG.jpg

[Diocleatian204]

Actually is Puerto Ricans and Cubans have more Black African Ancestry than Madieran Portuguese, White Americans and White South Africans.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Madeirans do not differ from Continental Portugueses. You guys are pulling most of your assumptions out of your arse and basing them on results from "Madeirans" living in the new world.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Madeirans do not differ from Continental Portugueses. You guys are pulling most of your assumptions out of your arse and basing them on results from "Madeirans" living in the new world.

Me, Endovelico and many other portuguese users have wrote that over and over but this autistic saga from the other side of the Atlantic continues. Peoples from the islands (Madeirans and Azoreans) are basically the same as those from mainland. Outliers there are everywhere (in mainland there are outliers also) but in general the differences between islander and mainlander populations are too insignificant, it's the same people.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Me, Endovelico and many other portuguese users have wrote that over and over but this autistic saga from the other side of the Atlantic continues. Peoples from the islands (Madeirans and Azoreans) are basically the same as those from mainland. Outliers there are everywhere (in mainland there are outliers also) but in general the differences between islander and mainlander populations are too insignificant, it's the same people.

The problem with new worlders is that they see the cases of other Southern European nations that have some variances within their nations like north to south or islands, example Crete, Sicily, North Italy, Sardinia, Canaries, etc and assume that in Portugal is must be the same case with Madeira and Azores but it's bollocks. Portugal is one of the most homogeneous nations when it comes to ethnic background from north to south to islands.

[Sebastianus Rex]

The problem with new worlders is that they see the cases of other Southern European nations that have some variances within their nations like north to south or islands, example Crete, Sicily, North Italy, Sardinia, Canaries, etc and assume that in Portugal is must be the same case with Madeira and Azores but it's bollocks. Portugal is one of the most homogeneous nations when it comes to ethnic background from north to south to islands.

Yeah, and another bollock is the idea that Portugal is darker or more exotic people than Spain, I haven't said anything about it yet about it but it's about time to expose that myth. Spain (especially the southern half) has considerably more exotic people than Portugal.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Yeah, and another bollock is the idea that Portugal is darker or more exotic people than Spain, I haven't said anything about it yet about it but it's about time to expose that myth. Spain (especially the southern half) has considerably more exotic people than Portugal.

Unfortunately there is Iberian members to blame for that as well. According to Cristiano Viejo per example, I don't pass even as atypical in Spain but I fit perfectly in Mexico :hail:

https://s8.postimg.org/p4biqaxud/IMG_20171214_202352_1.jpg

[LieDetector]

Yeah, and another bollock is the idea that Portugal is darker or more exotic people than Spain,

According to Gitano pendejo Spanish people are much lighter. :picard2:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

According to Gitano pendejo Spanish people are much lighter. :picard2:

Yes, that's why he has been to Portugal before and no one ever assumed him to be from anywhere else but Portugal until he opened his mouth.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yeah, and another bollock is the idea that Portugal is darker or more exotic people than Spain, I haven't said anything about it yet about it but it's about time to expose that myth. Spain (especially the southern half) has considerably more exotic people than Portugal.

Isn't it possibly a case that Spain has more of both extremes though? More people who are very light AND more people who are very dark than is the case in Portugal?

[Leto]

The Portuguese are a bit more African according to the Dodecad average. Up to 3% Afro versus 1+% in Spain. White Americans may have SSA only in the deep South. Post Civil War settler/immigrant descendants have none. Most Afrikaners have as much as Southerners or even more.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The Portuguese are a bit more African according to the Dodecad average. Up to 3% Afro versus 1+% in Spain. White Americans may have SSA only in the deep South. Post Civil War settler/immigrant descendants have none. Most Afrikaners have as much as Southerners or even more.

You have to take such spreadsheets and samples with a pinch of salt, according to most of them Galicians have more North-African ancestry than Andaluzians which is extremely unlikely.

[Sebastianus Rex]

According to Gitano pendejo Spanish people are much lighter. :picard2:

Much lighter my ass, just a quick drive to interior Andalusia and we can see more very dark types and the kind of moorish faces that are unpassable (or at best extremely rare) in Portugal.

[Sebastianus Rex]

You have to take such spreadsheets and samples with a pinch of salt, according to most of them Galicians have more North-African ancestry than Andaluzians which is extremely unlikely.

That is MAJOR :bullshit: That's why I always tell that we need much larger samples before making reasonable assumptions about the genetic make up of populations (now we just have basically a dozen cats, not even 0.0001% of the populations are tested and people think they are allowed to discuss seriously the genetic composition of groups with millions of individuals):picard1:. For someone that has ever set a foot on several Spanish regions it's obviously an impossibility, phenotypically and historically.

[Leto]

You have to take such spreadsheets and samples with a pinch of salt, according to most of them Galicians have more North-African ancestry than Andaluzians which is extremely unlikely.
Well, that's true. I've seen Russians who score 1% SSA and 1.5% NE Afro on Eurogenes. :lol:

However, 1-2% for the Iberian Peninsula seems likely to me. There was even talk of some slaves in Portugal (don't accuse me of trolling, I was told by a Spanish forum member that Portugal once had had blacks).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Well, that's true. I've seen Russians who score 1% SSA and 1.5% NE Afro on Eurogenes. :lol:

However, 1-2% for the Iberian Peninsula seems likely to me. There was even talk of some slaves in Portugal (don't accuse me of trolling, I was told by a Spanish forum member that Portugal once had had blacks).

Yea, it's not far fetched I guess. My highest SSA score is only 0.43% though. I do score some North East African though, per example here is my Eurogenes K15 Oracle:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 26.02
2 West_Med 22.23
3 North_Sea 19.84
4 East_Med 11.77
5 Eastern_Euro 5.49
6 Baltic 5.14
7 Northeast_African 3.19
8 West_Asian 2.99
9 Red_Sea 2.29


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 3.727331
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.650326
3 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.304789
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 5.952412
5 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.040771
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.421705
7 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.713993
8 North_Italian @ 8.013658
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 8.027206
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 8.327158
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.656327
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 10.443177
13 Southwest_French @ 10.991272
14 French @ 12.829893
15 Tuscan @ 15.028735
16 South_Dutch @ 18.100151
17 Serbian @ 19.494930
18 West_German @ 20.498423
19 Romanian @ 20.948082
20 Austrian @ 21.518921

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Portuguese @ 3.727331


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +25% Spanish_Cantabria +25% Tuscan @ 3.542866


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese @ 3.180573
2 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.301125
3 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.324814
4 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.446154
5 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.462733
6 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.463382
7 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.507597
8 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.509336
9 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.520799
10 Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cantabria + Tuscan @ 3.542866
11 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.550134
12 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.568284
13 Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.572852
14 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.574757
15 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.588602
16 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.594914
17 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.608324
18 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.624690
19 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.636085
20 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.641564

[Leto]

Yea, it's not far fetched I guess. My highest SSA score is only 0.43% though. I do score some North East African though, per example here is my Eurogenes K15 Oracle:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 26.02
2 West_Med 22.23
3 North_Sea 19.84
4 East_Med 11.77
5 Eastern_Euro 5.49
6 Baltic 5.14
7 Northeast_African 3.19
8 West_Asian 2.99
9 Red_Sea 2.29


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Portuguese @ 3.727331
2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.650326
3 Spanish_Murcia @ 5.304789
4 Spanish_Galicia @ 5.952412
5 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.040771
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.421705
7 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.713993
8 North_Italian @ 8.013658
9 Spanish_Valencia @ 8.027206
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 8.327158
11 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.656327
12 Spanish_Aragon @ 10.443177
13 Southwest_French @ 10.991272
14 French @ 12.829893
15 Tuscan @ 15.028735
16 South_Dutch @ 18.100151
17 Serbian @ 19.494930
18 West_German @ 20.498423
19 Romanian @ 20.948082
20 Austrian @ 21.518921

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Portuguese @ 3.727331


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +25% Spanish_Cantabria +25% Tuscan @ 3.542866


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese @ 3.180573
2 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.301125
3 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.324814
4 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.446154
5 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.462733
6 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.463382
7 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.507597
8 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.509336
9 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.520799
10 Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Cantabria + Tuscan @ 3.542866
11 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.550134
12 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.568284
13 Portuguese + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.572852
14 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.574757
15 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.588602
16 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Galicia + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.594914
17 North_Italian + Portuguese + Portuguese + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.608324
18 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.624690
19 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Extremadura + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.636085
20 North_Italian + Portuguese + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.641564
Isn't the NE Afro Negroid as well? I'm judging by Maghrebi results. They are like 10% SSA and 10% NEA and we all know the Maghrebis are around 20% ni66er on average.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Isn't the NE Afro Negroid as well? I'm judging by Maghrebi results. They are like 10% SSA and 10% NEA and we all know the Maghrebis are around 20% ni66er on average.

North-East African is a Caucasoid type, parcel of it might be SSA but not entirely as far as my knowledge goes.

[Tooting Carmen]

Much lighter my ass, just a quick drive to interior Andalusia and we can see more very dark types and the kind of moorish faces that are unpassable (or at best extremely rare) in Portugal.

Do you mean people like this? (Some councillors from Jaen):
http://www.aytojaen.es/portal/RecursosWeb/IMAGENES/1/0_11569_1.jpghttp://www.aytojaen.es/portal/RecursosWeb/IMAGENES/1/0_11638_1.JPGhttp://www.aytojaen.es/portal/RecursosWeb/IMAGENES/1/0_14142_1.jpghttp://www.aytojaen.es/portal/RecursosWeb/IMAGENES/1/0_13625_1.jpg

[Leto]

North-East African is a Caucasoid type, parcel of it might be SSA but not entirely as far as my knowledge goes.
What do you score on Dodecad K7b? I still have a feeling the NEA is Negroid. Because North Africans cannot be only 10% SSA.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

What do you score on Dodecad K7b? I still have a feeling the NEA is Negroid. Because North Africans cannot be only 10% SSA.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 56.49
2 Southern 28.86
3 West_Asian 11.02
4 African 2.10

[Leto]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 56.49
2 Southern 28.86
3 West_Asian 11.02
4 African 2.10
This is what I mean by the African average on Dodecad. Don't know if it's entirely Negroid or not.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Well, that's true. I've seen Russians who score 1% SSA and 1.5% NE Afro on Eurogenes. :lol:

However, 1-2% for the Iberian Peninsula seems likely to me. There was even talk of some slaves in Portugal (don't accuse me of trolling, I was told by a Spanish forum member that Portugal once had had blacks).

Very funny, but the Moorish presence was MUCH greater in Spain than in Portugal and lasted much longer, it's not even debatable.

The slave element on Portuguese society was always residual and most had not means of reproduction. Besides more black slaves were traded in ports like Liverpool and Marseilles than in Lisbon.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Very funny, but the Moorish presence was MUCH greater in Spain than in Portugal and lasted much longer, it's not even debatable.

The slave element on Portuguese society was always residual and most had not means of reproduction. Besides more black slaves were traded in ports like Liverpool and Marseilles than in Lisbon.

Tou a ver que aí no Algarve também foram bombardeados com a invasão de Espanhóis na semana passada :lol: Vieram cá todos passar o feriados deles. É que já não se ouvia outra coisa na rua. Agora descarrega.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Tou a ver que aí no Algarve também foram bombardeados com a invasão de Espanhóis na semana passada :lol: Vieram cá todos passar o feriados deles. É que já não se ouvia outra coisa na rua. Agora descarrega.

xD

Também convêm ir aquecendo o ambiente para o Mundial da Rússia, em Junho vai estar bem quentinho. :evil :devil666:

[Leto]

Very funny, but the Moorish presence was MUCH greater in Spain than in Portugal and lasted much longer, it's not even debatable.
Yet the general level of admixture is not higher than in Portugal, maybe even lower. Also, I don't believe the Spanish are darker than the Portuguese. No way.

[alnortedelsur]

Me, Endovelico and many other portuguese users have wrote that over and over but this autistic saga from the other side of the Atlantic continues. Peoples from the islands (Madeirans and Azoreans) are basically the same as those from mainland. Outliers there are everywhere (in mainland there are outliers also) but in general the differences between islander and mainlander populations are too insignificant, it's the same people.

Indeed, lots of Portuguese Venezuelans are of Madeira origin, and they look very white, with decent amount of them having blondish hair tones and light eyes, and many of them being able to pass in several western and Central European countries.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Yet the general level of admixture is not higher than in Portugal, maybe even lower. Also, I don't believe the Spanish are darker than the Portuguese. No way.

You obviously haven't been reading what we have been writing, those admixture levels data (wich account for not even 0.00001% of the total populations) fall apart when they point that Galicians have more northern-african admixture than Andalusians, wich is a complete impossibility from the historical and phenotypical point of views.

Spanish might not be darker than Portuguese but they are not lighter either.

[Sikeliot]

I think the SSA in Madeira might be due to people with a Cape Verdean ancestor in the 1800s or so. There used to be trade between the two.

[Smeagol]

I don't know how any one can argue American Southerners have more SSA than Afrikaners when genetic studies make it clear that almost all Afrikaners have some minor SSA while over 90% of White Southerners have none at all.

[Sikeliot]

I don't know how any one can argue American Southerners have more SSA than Afrikaners when genetic studies make it clear that almost all Afrikaners have some minor SSA while over 90% of White Southerners have none at all.

What do you estimate for Madeirans?

[Smeagol]

What do you estimate for Madeirans?

Probably like 2-3% on average.

[TheForeigner]

Very funny, but the Moorish presence was MUCH greater in Spain than in Portugal and lasted much longer, it's not even debatable.

The slave element on Portuguese society was always residual and most had not means of reproduction. Besides more black slaves were traded in ports like Liverpool and Marseilles than in Lisbon.

What about the Madeiras? Is it true that large numbers of African slaves were brought there and assimilated? Do Madeirans and Azoreans really have SSA admixture? Also in both Spain and Portugal some of the Muslims and Jews were converted to Christianity. In Spain there was an expulsion of even these convert Moriscos, but maybe in both countries many converts avoided deportation and were assimilated.

[Cristiano viejo]

What about the Madeiras? Is it true that large numbers of African slaves were brought there and assimilated? Do Madeirans and Azoreans really have SSA admixture? Also in both Spain and Portugal some of the Muslims and Jews were converted to Christianity. In Spain there was an expulsion of even these convert Moriscos, but maybe in both countries many converts avoided deportation and were assimilated.

Jewish marranos were watched since the first moment, even before than the born of the Spanish Inquisition, which was created solely and exclusively for them (later Inquisition also would control heretics). Many Jewish marranos were killed and persecuted, and that is why they left in mass road Portugal, England and Netherlands, but also North Africa.

The few families that converted and remained (or better said, returned, because they had been previously expelled to Portugal), mostly bankers who financed the crown, finished equally persecuted-expelled-killed by the Inquisition. I recommend the book Los judíos en España (The Jews in Spain), of the professor Joseph Pérez.

Only Chuetas, a little Jewish community in Balearic Islands, achieved to avoid the Inquisition and could to remain in Spain following their traditions etc
This diplomatic called Jaume Segura, embassador of Spain in El Salvador and former embassador in República Dominicana, is one of them

https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/eeas/files/styles/medium/public/pictures/picture-9623-1477906232.jpg?itok=7CQ-WDAw
https://estaticos.efe.com/efecom/recursos2/imagen.aspx?lVW2oAh2vjMGkvLNvV8YWDyDR8isHAYoQ4Tncn kXVSTX-P-2bAoG0sxzXPZPAk5l-P-2fU5UUVKmAQPgWJ6jV7W70sVdpg-P-3d-P-3d
http://static.elmundo.sv/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Jaume-Segura.jpg

[Nico Nobrix]

I am full Madeiran and show 1.2% SSA on 23 and me. By the way, if you visit Madeira you will see 100% black Africans, there are few but they are there and after 15 years and 4 trips, I have yet to see any mixed looking Portuguese even in this day and age. So to say 10% of the population being slaves all integrated and mixed is not true and doesn't make mathematical sense either. We have also yet to determine for sure scientifically if sub saharan African is from the Atlantic slave trade. Is is possible that Morisco Portuguese were sent mostly to Madeira?

[Nico Nobrix]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 56.49
2 Southern 28.86
3 West_Asian 11.02
4 African 2.10

How is it that we have virtually the same Atlantic/Baltic and Southern but my West Asian is lower than yours by a bit more than 2 points and my African is more than yours by 3 points. Is it possible the calculators are mixing West Asian with African? You would think supplementing Atlantic with African would "steal" away from Atlantic, but it's not? It is especially odd because West Asian we know for sure is a very ancient admixture for portuguse. you think it would be the same
1Atlantic_Baltic56.52
2 Southern28.63
3 West_Asian8.90
4 African5.08

[Sikeliot]

I am full Madeiran and show 1.2% SSA on 23 and me. By the way, if you visit Madeira you will see 100% black Africans, there are few but they are there and after 15 years and 4 trips, I have yet to see any mixed looking Portuguese even in this day and age. So to say 10% of the population being slaves all integrated and mixed is not true and doesn't make mathematical sense either. We have also yet to determine for sure scientifically if sub saharan African is from the Atlantic slave trade. Is is possible that Morisco Portuguese were sent mostly to Madeira?

Because the SSA in Madeira is on their maternal side (mtdna L). The North African input in Iberia is on the paternal side mostly.

[Lucas]

I am full Madeiran and show 1.2% SSA on 23 and me. By the way, if you visit Madeira you will see 100% black Africans, there are few but they are there and after 15 years and 4 trips, I have yet to see any mixed looking Portuguese even in this day and age. So to say 10% of the population being slaves all integrated and mixed is not true and doesn't make mathematical sense either. We have also yet to determine for sure scientifically if sub saharan African is from the Atlantic slave trade. Is is possible that Morisco Portuguese were sent mostly to Madeira?

I agree, I was in Madeira on holidays some time ago and I didn't notice any mulatto or quadroon looking Madeirans.

[Sikeliot]

I agree, I was in Madeira on holidays some time ago and I didn't notice any mulatto or quadroon looking Madeirans.

The Sub-Saharan has been diluted significantly, it will not show in phenotype. But is clearly not from North African input.

[Nico Nobrix]

Because the SSA in Madeira is on their maternal side (mtdna L). The North African input in Iberia is on the paternal side mostly.

My paternal haplogroup is G and maternal is H7...

[Nico Nobrix]

For Portuguese with no haplogroup L, what does that mean when we have sub saharan but not the haplogroup to show it? North Africans do have SSA you know and I do know that genetics are like roulette, your genes can pick up ancestry from a very very long time ago.

[arkas]

Based on the the white South Africans I have met in Australia, which there is a relatively large community of them here, they have 0% SSA ancestry. If they do, they usually identify as mixed race and not as White, and have very recent SSA ancestry. Madeiran Portuguese would be having the most SSA ancestry on average, which is still very little.

[Smeagol]

Based on the the white South Africans I have met in Australia, which there is a relatively large community of them here, they have 0% SSA ancestry. If they do, they usually identify as mixed race and not as White, and have very recent SSA ancestry. Madeiran Portuguese would be have the most SSA ancestry for on average, which is still very little.

Practically all Afrikaners have minor SSA ancestry, but it's not enough to show up in phenotype.

[arkas]

Practically all Afrikaners have minor SSA ancestry, but it's not enough to show up in phenotype.

Interesting, has there been any studies on their DNA? It surely must typically be from relatively distant SSA ancestry.

[Smeagol]

Interesting, has there been any studies on their DNA? It surely must typically be from relatively distant SSA ancestry.

Yes, there's a thread with Afrikaner 23andMe results on this forum.

[Congolese Rice]

yemeniantillean is the whitest afrikaner that i know of, hes 200% caucasoid

[arkas]

Yes, there's a thread with Afrikaner 23andMe results on this forum.

Are you sure the majority have minor SSA DNA though? There's some who have been in South Africa for only 3 generations for example, I doubt they have mixed.

[Congolese Rice]

Are you sure the majority have minor SSA DNA though? There's some who have been in South Africa for only 3 generations for example, I doubt they have mixed.

the native south africans dont mix with white peeps, and i approve of that xd dont pollude ur genes with white genetics

[Smeagol]

Are you sure the majority have minor SSA DNA though? There's some who have been in South Africa for only 3 generations for example, I doubt they have mixed.

I mean Afrikaners, not descendants of recent immigrants.

[arkas]

the native south africans dont mix with white peeps, and i approve of that xd dont pollude ur genes with white genetics

Lmao I am pretty sure they do, I have met a mixed race South African in Australia.

[Congolese Rice]

Lmao I am pretty sure they do, I have met a mixed race South African in Australia.

"Lmao i am pretty sure they do LMAO


yeah sure, its probably quite possible. But its very unlikely probably cuz the black africans there hate white people from what i can conclude, lol


infact, if i were to visit South Africa they would probably kill me along with the white people because i dont look black enough xD

[arkas]

"Lmao i am pretty sure they do LMAO


yeah sure, its probably quite possible. But its very unlikely probably cuz the black africans there hate white people from what i can conclude, lol


infact, if i were to visit South Africa they would probably kill me along with the white people because i dont look black enough xD

Oh definately, many of the extreme Black nationalistic types have a deep hatred for White South Africans. Still there are for sure many mixed race people there, I think they are refered to as "Coloureds", which means neither Black or White in South Africa.

[Congolese Rice]

Oh definately, many of the extreme Black nationalistic types have a deep hatred for White South Africans. Still there are for sure many mixed race people there, I think they are refered to as "Coloureds", which means neither Black or White in South Africa.

Well, i bet mixed race people arent actually black or white anywhere in the world, even though some mulattos can look very black. Take for example, my mum.


She is 60-70% Black Subsaharan African/Ethiopian, and 10-20% North African, also 10-18% Dutch and 4% Amerindian.

She looks very black to me, she could probably pass in Sudan, Mauritania, and Mali, and as Fulani due to her caucasoid admixture.


https://i.imgur.com/3oFUl5K.jpg

^ my mum was Skintype 6 on fitzpatrick scale, and she was very warm-toned as she had a reddish-brown complexion.

[arkas]

Well, i bet mixed race people arent actually black or white anywhere in the world, even though some mulattos can look very black. Take for example, my mum.


She is 60-70% Black Subsaharan African/Ethiopian, and 10-20% North African, also 10-18% Dutch and 4% Amerindian.

She looks very black to me, she could probably pass in Sudan, Mauritania, and Mali, and as Fulani due to her caucasoid admixture.


https://i.imgur.com/3oFUl5K.jpg

^ my mum was Skintype 6 on fitzpatrick scale, and she was very warm-toned as she had a reddish-brown complexion.

Yep, mixed race people are mixed, only a small minority of goofs think otherwise. Like this one mixed kid on TA who always starts threads asking people if he is Black or White xD

Just kidding, you can identify however you want.

Is that your sister? Looks a lot like you.

[Congolese Rice]

Yep, mixed race people are mixed, only a small minority of goofs think otherwise. Like this one mixed kid on TA who always starts threads asking people if he is Black or White xD

Just kidding, you can identify however you want.

Is that your sister? Looks a lot like you.


"Like this one mixed kid on TA who always starts threads asking people if he is Black or White xD"


O-O nah man, i dont know who u are talking about, aint never heard of someone who asks people if hes black, white, arab or latino looking. you must have mistaken me for the wrong man.



xD and yeah, i identify as afro-caribbean, or mulatto/biracial. i know i am biracial because i am not black and i dont have afro-hair (even though i wish i did Dx)


and nope, she's my niece.


she's half Venezuelan and half Aruban. She's the daughter of my uncle and a venezuelan woman.


and not really, shes much older now. I think she's in her early 30's, and she looks way different than me. She looks like a typical latina. Dolicho-mesocephalic, hooked amerindian/african influenced nose, a strongly amerindian smile and mouth overal, also her eye region is amerindian influenced. I think her mum was 40% amerind. or 30%.

[Maguzanci]

Interesting, has there been any studies on their DNA? It surely must typically be from relatively distant SSA ancestry.

There's one Boer/Afrikaner user here who practically doesn't have any Negroid admix. But he has not been active for a while now. Here are his threads:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?148087-Barbatus-Dodecad-K12b-results-Oracle
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?148839-Barbatus-Eurogenes-K36-results

[Congolese Rice]

There's one Boer/Afrikaner user here who practically doesn't have any Negroid admix. But he has not been active for a while now. Here are his threads:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?148087-Barbatus-Dodecad-K12b-results-Oracle
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?148839-Barbatus-Eurogenes-K36-results

lol wow that's interesting, i havent seen a "Boer" before here.


also, Boer in dutch means Farmer, so that's quite odd.


eitherway yeah, i thought south african whites would have more SSA because they are literally in the continent of africa, seems like i was grossely mistaken xD

[Maguzanci]

lol wow that's interesting, i havent seen a "Boer" before here.


also, Boer in dutch means Farmer, so that's quite odd.


eitherway yeah, i thought south african whites would have more SSA because they are literally in the continent of africa, seems like i was grossely mistaken xD

He seems to live in Canada. Loki and Kazimiera are also Boer/Afrikaners.

Well was bit surprise to see that he basically has zero Negroid while Loki and Kazimiera actually scores in very tiny amounts. So am not sure how typical his results is for Afrikaners.

[Congolese Rice]

He seems to live in Canada. Loki and Kazimiera are also Boer/Afrikaners.

Well was bit surprise to see that he basically has zero Negroid while Loki and Kazimiera actually scores in very tiny amounts. So am not sure how typical his results is for Afrikaners.

im not sure either, but one thing i do know is that "Afrikaners" are just europeans born in Africa, LOL.


being born in africa doesnt make you an african, having African ancestry, black parents/grandparents, and having black blood course through your veins that makes you african.


I can claim being African despite not being born there lol.


And lmao thats cool, didnt know Loki was actually a Afrikaner. His profile just said "Boer" so i assumed he took a Dutch word and put it there, loool

[Nico Nobrix]

By the way there are some Madeirans with 0 sub saharan in theirDNA, even on GEDmatch calculators. I am not an exception, but this is my k13


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Murcia @ 4.197525
2 Portuguese @ 4.775830
3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.019466
4 Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.657891
5 Spanish_Valencia @ 6.315535
6 Spanish_Galicia @ 6.342431
7 Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.457965
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.068868
9 Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.446435
10 Spanish_Cantabria @ 8.987102
11 Spanish_Aragon @ 9.162874
12 Southwest_French @ 11.715899
13 North_Italian @ 12.350068
14 French @ 12.489285
15 Tuscan @ 18.189545
16 South_Dutch @ 19.206604
17 West_German @ 19.292810
18 French_Basque @ 22.340303
19 Southeast_English @ 23.597307
20 Southwest_English @ 24.265493

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Portuguese +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 4.193868


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Aragon +25% Tunisian +25% West_Scottish @ 4.012842


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Murcia + Tunisian @ 3.592539
2 French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia + Tunisian @ 3.658498
3 Algerian + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 3.806770
4 Algerian + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.827144
5 French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cataluna + Tunisian @ 3.874631
6 French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Tunisian @ 3.922664
7 French_Basque + Southwest_English + Spanish_Murcia + Tunisian @ 3.924314
8 Algerian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.937198
9 French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian @ 3.941115
10 French_Basque + Southwest_English + Spanish_Valencia + Tunisian @ 3.965291
11 French_Basque + Orcadian + Spanish_Murcia + Tunisian @ 3.969291
12 Algerian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.984778
13 French_Basque + Spanish_Valencia + Tunisian + West_Scottish @ 3.994721
14 French_Basque + Orcadian + Spanish_Valencia + Tunisian @ 3.994961
15 Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian @ 4.000833
16 French_Basque + Spanish_Murcia + Tunisian + West_Scottish @ 4.006845
17 Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian + West_Scottish @ 4.012842
18 Algerian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 4.031366
19 Southeast_English + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian @ 4.081674
20 Algerian + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.087612


Anyone really good at analyzing this? I'm a Madeiran native

[Congolese Rice]

also, the awsner is yemeni, yemeni is the blackest of all.

[Nico Nobrix]

See how North Africans have 20% SSA? Iberians have 2-10% North African with the higher percentages in West Iberia, mostly from Neolithic era by the way, and Medieval. If you do the math, these representations of 1-2% SSA is embedded in the 5% average of NA dna in Iberia. I also find this consistent with my DNA considering full Portuguese background, with Ancestry, 23 and me, myheritage, and GEDmatch show 1%, 2%, 2%, and 3% SSA in that order.

Because of the consistent numbers of SSA between mainlanders and my own DNA from Madeira, I find it far fetch to believe Madeirans absorbed all of the SSA slaves since the discovery of the island. My Madeiran roots go back at least 4 generations

[Nico Nobrix]

That's because NA input is from Neolithic not Medieval

[Sikeliot]

See how North Africans have 20% SSA? Iberians have 2-10% North African with the higher percentages in West Iberia, mostly from Neolithic era by the way, and Medieval. If you do the math, these representations of 1-2% SSA is embedded in the 5% average of NA dna in Iberia. I also find this consistent with my DNA considering full Portuguese background, with Ancestry, 23 and me, myheritage, and GEDmatch show 1%, 2%, 2%, and 3% SSA in that order.

Because of the consistent numbers of SSA between mainlanders and my own DNA from Madeira, I find it far fetch to believe Madeirans absorbed all of the SSA slaves since the discovery of the island. My Madeiran roots go back at least 4 generations


Madeirans do have some ancestry from SSA slaves. there were 10% of slaves on the island in the 1700s, they were absorbed into the white population. The SSA in Madeira is not just from the Moors, because Madeirans have the embedded 1-2% SSA from Moors AND recent SSA that gives them a higher amount than mainlanders -- the latter part is from slaves.