Etruscan origins study reveals migration from Armenian Highlands

[Nexus]

http://www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/etruscan-migration-from-the-armenian-highlands-to-central-italy.jpg


Etruria was a region located in present day Central Italy that gave birth to one of the first civilizations in Europe. The origin of the Etruscan civilization is a long-standing subject of debate among scholars from different disciplines. The bulk of the information has been reconstructed from ancient texts and archaeological findings and, in the last few years, through genetic studies. A new study that aims to investigate the biological origins of the Etruscans has revealed a migration event from the Armenian Highlands into Tuscany (Central Italy) at around 850 BCE.
The analysis revealed that people of Tuscany poses a sizable amount of genetic traces from Middle East in particular the Armenian Highlands.

“Admixture analysis indicates the presence of 25–34% of Middle Eastern component in modern Tuscans. …genetic distances point to Eastern Anatolia/Southern Caucasus as the most likely geographic origin of the main Middle Eastern genetic component observed in the genome of modern Tuscans.”

Of all the Mid-East populations tested in the study, Armenians appear to show the least amount of difference with people of Tuscany (see fig. 1) and the greatest amount of genetic affinity:

“IBS values were also computed for each TSI (Tuscan) individual against each population. This analysis very clearly indicates the highest values for TSI individuals when compared against ARM (Armenians). The populations showing the lowest IBS values with TSI are UZB (Uzbeks), YMN (Yemenis), and EGP (Egyptians).”


http://www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/armenian-origins-of-the-etruscans2.jpg

Among all the Mid-Eastern populations tested, Armenians show the least difference with the people of Tuscany. Thus Armenians along with immediate neighbors appear to be more closely related to Etruscans than other Middle Easterners which places the Near-Eastern components of Etruscan admixture in Armenian Highlands. An elaborate analysis has been applied to identify the date of this Near Eastern genetic influx with results pointing towards the Iron age period.
The study reports:

“The data indicate that the admixture event between local Tuscans and Middle Easterners could have occurred in Central Italy about 2,600–3,100 years ago (y.a.). On the whole, the results validate the theory of the ancient historian Herodotus on the origin of Etruscans.”

In layman terms this means that a sizable migration event into (present day) Tuscany from the Armenian Highlands has occurred at around 850 BCE. Which coincides with the advent of the Etruscan civilization. This implies that as Ararat (Urartu) was forming into a formidable kingdom, a group likely from this very region migrated and settled into Central Italy. Interestingly, these results appears to coincide with the accounts of some ancient historians like Herodotus who theorized that Etruscans emigrated from Asia Minor around 1,200 BCE as the result of a famine.
Previous Study

Coincidentally, another study published in Science Magazine (Hellenthal et al., 2014) has already shown a significant genetic Armenian component within the population of Tuscany (Italy).

http://www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/tuscan-genetic-admixture-armenia-etruscans1.jpg

Genetic admixture of the population of Tuscany. The Armenian-Etruscan connection has also been argued for by various academics in the past. The British scholar Dr. Robert Ellis, for example, describes in his book The Armenian Origin of the Etruscans :

“The Armenians, like the Celts, are now few in number. They belong once to a longer extent of a country where they spread westward from Armenia to Italy under the names of Phrygians, Thracians, Pelasgians, Etruscans and also spread to other locations.”

Norwegian scholar Dr. Bugge, also suggested that the Etruscan language was of Armenian extraction. Other scholars like Vahan M. Kurkjian have identified Urartean art, architecture, language and general cultural traces of kinship to the Etruscans of the Italian peninsula. Armenian genetic traces among the populations of Tuscany therefore corroborate with the Etruscan-Armenian theory.

http://www.peopleofar.com/2014/09/26/etruscan-origins-study-reveals-migration-from-armenian-highlands/

[Dick]

OK SO WHAT NOW

[Percivalle]

That paper is old, 2014.

We still don't know what Y-DNAs were more common among the Etruscans. The only autosomal PCA chart based on three Etruscan samples shows that they fit in the Southern European cluster between Tuscans and Iberians, and even a bit more northern-shifted than them.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qREs-fTUFyk/VVB57pC9eUI/AAAAAAAACjU/xJ5YDY8ABZE/s1600/etruscans.jpg


That paper was not taken into great consideration because the authors tried to prove a point (the Herodotus theory) without any comparison with the old sample but using modern-day sample only. A large percentage of that Middle Eastern component could be Neolithic, as stated by themselves in the paper (!).

"Considering the recorded as well as the likely unrecorded population flows within Europe in the last couple of thousand years, the study of the Etruscans using modern DNA of their most presumable descendants, the Tuscans, is very challenging. For instance, the date obtained in the present study for the admixture estimates could actually represent a mixture of two European populations ~2,600–3,100 y.a., and not necessarily a mixture of a European and a Middle Eastern population [...] The Middle Eastern genomic patterns observed in present-day Tuscans could also be the result of various overlapping waves of migrants coming from different regions in Middle East and South Caucasus at different times; some of them could have arrived to this region in Neolithic times" (pp. 7-8).

The same authors in a subsequent study (2015) failed to confirm these findings. They changed method and they obtained a different result, 8% instead of 21%, Iran instead of Anatolia. Basically they proved what Ghirotto, Tassi and others said in previous papers, that a link between Etruscans and Anatolia dates back to the Neolithic times and to a remote stage of prehistory. As we know this type of connection does not concern only the Etruscans.

"Different analyses reveal the presence of typical Near East haplotypes in Tuscans representing isolated members of various mtDNA phylogenetic branches. As a whole, the Near East component in Tuscan mitogenomes can be estimated at about 8%; a proportion that is comparable to previous estimates but significantly lower than admixture estimates obtained from autosomal SNP data (21%). Phylogeographic and evolutionary inter-population comparisons indicate that the main signal of Near Eastern Tuscan mitogenomes comes from Iran."

Anyway, in both the studies they used the Tuscan sample from The 1000 Genome Project. The geneticist who collected the sample stated that those Tuscan sample aren't very reliable because only three grandparents were born in Tuscany (and actually being born in Tuscany doesn't imply you're full Tuscan), and were collected in a particular town in Tuscany not linked with the Etruscan civilization.

"1) These samples were collected from unrelated individuals in a particular town in Tuscany, Italy. They do not necessarily represent all Tuscans, nor all Italians, whose population history is complex. The samples should not be described merely as "Italian", "Southern European," "European" or "Caucasian" since each of those designators encompasses many populations with many different geographic ancestries.

2) At least three out of four grandparents were born in Tuscany."


Coincidentally, another study published in Science Magazine (Hellenthal et al., 2014) has already shown a significant genetic Armenian component within the population of Tuscany (Italy).

According to the same study Tuscans have also British, French, Welsh and German genetic component. Actually they have more British and German than Armenians. So were the Etruscans also British and Germanic?

[Nexus]

That paper is old, 2014.

We still don't know what Y-DNAs were more common among the Etruscans. The only autosomal PCA chart based on three Etruscan samples shows that they fit in the Southern European cluster between Tuscans and Iberians, and even a bit more northern-shifted than them.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qREs-fTUFyk/VVB57pC9eUI/AAAAAAAACjU/xJ5YDY8ABZE/s1600/etruscans.jpg


That paper was not taken into great consideration because the authors tried to prove a point (the Herodotus theory) without any comparison with the old sample but using modern-day sample only. A large percentage of that Middle Eastern component could be Neolithic, as stated by themselves in the paper (!).

"Considering the recorded as well as the likely unrecorded population flows within Europe in the last couple of thousand years, the study of the Etruscans using modern DNA of their most presumable descendants, the Tuscans, is very challenging. For instance, the date obtained in the present study for the admixture estimates could actually represent a mixture of two European populations ~2,600–3,100 y.a., and not necessarily a mixture of a European and a Middle Eastern population [...] The Middle Eastern genomic patterns observed in present-day Tuscans could also be the result of various overlapping waves of migrants coming from different regions in Middle East and South Caucasus at different times; some of them could have arrived to this region in Neolithic times" (pp. 7-8).

The same authors in a subsequent study (2015) failed to confirm these findings. They changed method and they obtained a different result, 8% instead of 21%, Iran instead of Anatolia. Basically they proved what Ghirotto, Tassi and others said in previous papers, that a link between Etruscans and Anatolia dates back to the Neolithic times and to a remote stage of prehistory. As we know this type of connection does not concern only the Etruscans.

"Different analyses reveal the presence of typical Near East haplotypes in Tuscans representing isolated members of various mtDNA phylogenetic branches. As a whole, the Near East component in Tuscan mitogenomes can be estimated at about 8%; a proportion that is comparable to previous estimates but significantly lower than admixture estimates obtained from autosomal SNP data (21%). Phylogeographic and evolutionary inter-population comparisons indicate that the main signal of Near Eastern Tuscan mitogenomes comes from Iran."

Anyway, in both the studies they used the Tuscan sample from The 1000 Genome Project. The geneticist who collected the sample stated that those Tuscan sample aren't very reliable because only three grandparents were born in Tuscany (and actually being born in Tuscany doesn't imply you're full Tuscan), and were collected in a particular town in Tuscany not linked with the Etruscan civilization.

"1) These samples were collected from unrelated individuals in a particular town in Tuscany, Italy. They do not necessarily represent all Tuscans, nor all Italians, whose population history is complex. The samples should not be described merely as "Italian", "Southern European," "European" or "Caucasian" since each of those designators encompasses many populations with many different geographic ancestries.

2) At least three out of four grandparents were born in Tuscany."



According to the same study Tuscans have also British, French, Welsh and German genetic component. Actually they have more British and German than Armenians. So were the Etruscans also British and Germanic?


You quoted a post of another forum. Post the original source.

[Percivalle]

You quoted a post of another forum. Post the original source.

It's me, I quoted myself.

[Tacitus]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?161618-The-Etruscans-are-among-us-Origins-and-Evolution-of-the-Etruscans%92-mtDNA

[Nexus]

It's me, I quoted myself.


OK, quote the original study source please.

[Percivalle]

OK, quote the original study source please.

Have you posted this study without having read the paper?

The quotes come from the 2014 paper (the one you've posted) and from the 2015 paper.

Don't know you how to find the paper you've posted?

[Nexus]

Have you posted this study without having read the paper?

The quotes come from the 2014 paper (the one you've posted) and from the 2015 paper.

Don't know you how to find the paper you've posted?


I ask you for the 2015 paper which I obviously did not quote. The one where states that the minor Middle Eastern component is Iranian.

[Percivalle]

I ask you for the 2015 paper which I obviously did not quote. The one where states that the minor Middle Eastern component is Iranian.

Yes, but Herodotus said Lydia, not Iran.

This is their 2015 paper based on 1000 genome project. In the best case for them they proved that it wasn't a mass migration. A bit too little for those who have tried to prove that Herodotus was right.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4365045/

[Nexus]

Yes, but Herodotus said Lydia, not Iran.

This is their 2015 paper based on 1000 genome project.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4365045/

Wherever the Eastern component came from, Armenia or further east, like the 2015 paper suggests it is likely they settled from either of these in Lydia and then migrated to the region.

http://www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/etruscan-migration-from-the-armenian-highlands-to-central-italy.jpg

[Nexus]

Also: The second most important signal in our study would come from South Caucasus. Note that an origin in South Caucasus of the Near East component of Tuscans would also fit well with the findings observed in the genome-wide SNP analysis carried out by Pardo-Seco et al.

[Nexus]

The 8% of Middle Eastern component comes from the mitogenomes (MtDNA) which means these ancestors were females from Middle East. Then you can ask yourselves, where did the males come from?

[Percivalle]

Wherever the Eastern component came from, Armenia or further east, like the 2015 paper suggests it is likely they settled from either of these in Lydia and then migrated to the region

They haven't proved that, they are just suggesting that 8% of the population could come from there. And the remaining 92%? I read all the studies on the Etruscans. 10 years ago it was enough to have found T1a-M70 and G2a in the modern population to say that Herodotus was right. Then more recently T1a-M70 has been found in a 7000 years old settlement in Karsdorf, Germany and T is now magically just a Neolithic arrival, and G2a, as we know, is the Otzi Y-DNA.

[Nexus]

They haven't proved that, they are just suggesting that 8% of the population could come from there. And the remaining 92%? I read all the studies on the Etruscans. 10 years ago it was enough to have found T1a-M70 and G2a in the modern population to say that Herodotus was right. Then more recently T1a-M70 has been found in a 7000 years old settlement in Karsdorf, Germany and T is now magically just a Neolithic arrival and G2a is the Otzi Y-DNA.


The 8% would have descended from females (mtDNA) from there, where did the males came from?

[Percivalle]

The 8% would have descended from females (mtDNA) from there, where did the males came from?

It's still their suggestion, not a proof. For most of that mtDNA could be the same story of T1a-M70 and G2a who were in the past thought to be recent arrival but the story has been different. I remember you that until a decade or so many believed in a mass migration, now even the authors of your study no longer believe that.


The 8% would have descended from females (mtDNA) from there, where did the males came from?

The Etruscans are related to the Rhaetian people, they originally belong to the same stock.

Raetic and Etruscan, together with Lemnian, belong to the same linguistic stock. But the link between Etruscan language and Reatic language is older than the one between Etruscan and Lemnian. This based on the study of a Reatic plauge found in the Alps.

https://www.academia.edu/5066954/La_lamina_di_Demlfeld_Considerazioni_storico_lingu istiche


And read this

Ice Man, Ötzi: A treacherous murder with links to Central Italy

The copper used to make Ötzi's axe blade did not come from the Alpine region as had previously been supposed, but from ore mined in southern Tuscany. Ötzi was probably not involved in working the metal himself, as the high levels of arsenic and copper found in his hair had, until now, led us to assume. His murder over 5,000 years ago seems to have been brought about due to a personal conflict a few days before his demise, and the man from the ice, despite his normal weight and active life-style, suffered from extensive vascular calcification.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160923140105.htm


Ötzi was born in a proto-Reatic area and his axe came from a proto-Etruscan area.

In the next 10 years it will be definitely proved. Of course due to the trade contacts, some recent arrivals can't be completely ruled out but I'm sure if we analyze in depth other southern European populations we end up finding some of those mtDNA lines.

[Nexus]

It's still their suggestion, not a proof. For most of that mtDNA could be the same story of T1a-M70 and G2a who were in the past thought to be recent arrival but the story has been different. I remember you that until a decade or so many believed in a mass migration, now even the authors of your study no longer believe that.



The Etruscans are related to the Rhaetian people, they originally belong to the same stock.

Raetic and Etruscan, together with Lemnian, belong to the same linguistic stock. But the link between Etruscan language and Reatic language is older than the one between Etruscan and Lemnian. This based on the study of a Reatic plauge found in the Alps.

https://www.academia.edu/5066954/La_lamina_di_Demlfeld_Considerazioni_storico_lingu istiche





Lemnos is between Greece and Anatolia. You don't think some input could have come from Anatolia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemnian_language

Or are you suggesting the relationship with the alpine speakers? You think they were native?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrsenian_languages

[Percivalle]

Lemnos is between Greece and Anatolia. You don't think some input could have come from Anatolia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemnian_language

Or are you suggesting the relationship with the alpine speakers? You think they were native?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrsenian_languages

It's not my suggestion, but it's the conclusion of those scholars who have studied the bronze plaque of Demlfeld written in Raetic.

Etruscan, Raetic and Lemnian are all related (so confirming Helmut Rix and the Tyrsenian theory), but according to them the link between Etruscan and Raetic is older than the one between Etruscan and Lemnian. It's here

https://www.academia.edu/5066954/La_lamina_di_Demlfeld_Considerazioni_storico_lingu istiche

[wvwvw]

It's not my suggestion, but it's the conclusion of those scholars who have studied the bronze plaque of Demlfeld written in Raetic.

Etruscan, Raetic and Lemnian are all related (so confirming Helmut Rix and the Tyrsenian theory), but according to them the link between Etruscan and Raetic is older than the one between Etruscan and Lemnian. It's here

https://www.academia.edu/5066954/La_lamina_di_Demlfeld_Considerazioni_storico_lingu istiche

There is no historical
 record of Etruscans on Lemnos. The people falsely identified as
 Etruscans are Pelasgians.

The Tyrsenoi were unrelated to Pelasgians.

[Percivalle]

There is no historical
 record of Etruscans on Lemnos. The people falsely identified as
 Etruscans are Pelasgians.

The Tyrsenoi were unrelated to Pelasgians.

In fact those scholars are saying that the most important link is between Etruscan and Raetic.

Anyway Tyrsenoi and Pelasgians are exonyms.

[wvwvw]

The Romans never used the term Etruscans to refer to Etrurian tribes collectively. When Latin writers referred to Tusci they meant Tuscans not Etruscans. Tyrrhenia that is being used generically to denote a geographic region. The Tusci were completely different tribe from the Tyrrsenoi or the Pelasgians or any other Etrurian tribes.