Explain this: Kyrgyz 70-80% Mongoloid autosomal DNA, Y-DNA ( 25.5% C3, O3 8.5%, 55.3% R1a )

[ButlerKing]

How was Kyrgyz DNA formed? Every other Turkic group's autosomal DNA ( overall DNA ) makes sense except for Kyrgyz.



Only Kyrgyz DNA defy normal logic

Y-DNA mongoloid 38.2%
mtDNA mongoloid 48 - 64%

Autosomal 70-80% Mongoloid ( when in reality it should be between roughly 45-50% )


How to explain that ? ( any theories, scenario ? )


http://i64.tinypic.com/11vp7k5.jpg




https://www.stihi.ru/2016/02/27/11713

>Киргизы: / Kyrgyz

> R1a - 55.3%,
> С3 - 25.5%,
> O - 8.5%,
> N1 - 4.2%,
> R1b - 4.2%,
> J2 - 2.1%.




I understand Y-DNA makes up only 0.1% of your DNA but neither do Kyrgyz mtDNA makes sense.


Y-DNA

C3 25.5 + O 8.5 + N1 4.2 = 38.2% Mongoloid <---- and in some studies was only 26% and other 41% )
R1a 55.3 + R1b 4.2 + 2.1 = 61.9% Caucasian


mtDNA

27 - 42.6% Caucasian
48 - 64% Mongoloid
5 - 9% South Asian


http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/12/2265/T2.expansion.html
" West Eurasian mtDNA ranges from 27% to 42.6% in the Kyrgyz[37] with Haplogroup mtDNA H being the most predominant marker at 21.3% among the Kyrgyz.[37] "

[Rethel]

Founder effect in small population.

20-30% of not autosomal means, that 30% of non mongolic
hgs during last 1000 years with stable autosomal propotions,
growed in number doubled their male lines.


If you have mix population with 10 guys - 7 is C1 but 3 is R1,
and they allready have the same aDNA 30:70, then if this 7
guys have 6 sons and 4 grandsons from verious reasons, and
three R1 have 4 sons and 6 grandsons, then third generation
will be 60% R1, but aDNA will be the same. No problem. During
1000 years (or maybe even more) it is piece of cake.

Btw Kyrgyz were a very small tribe in the past. tens of thousand
of people, at not so far past hundrets of thousands... it is nothing.

Yet in 1920s there was something 600.000 Kyrgyzes.

[johen]

B/C r1a1 came from early neolithic lake baikal area:

Maternal and Paternal Polymorphisms in Prehistoric Siberian Populations of Lake Baikal
https://era.library.ualberta.ca/files/wm117r51m#.V8oGHE0rLIV

[ButlerKing]

Founder effect in small population.

20-30% of not autosomal means, that 30% of non mongolic
hgs during last 1000 years with stable autosomal propotions,
growed in number doubled their male lines.


If you have mix population with 10 guys - 7 is C1 but 3 is R1,
and they allready have the same aDNA 30:70, then if this 7
guys have 6 sons and 4 grandsons from verious reasons, and
three R1 have 4 sons and 6 grandsons, then third generation
will be 60% R1, but aDNA will be the same. No problem. During
1000 years (or maybe even more) it is piece of cake.

Btw Kyrgyz were a very small tribe in the past. tens of thousand
of people, at not so far past hundrets of thousands... it is nothing.

Yet in 1920s there was something 600.000 Kyrgyzes.


Your scenario makes sense but how can we prove it? it also says on wikipedia " Because of the processes of migration, conquest, intermarriage, and assimilation, many of the Kyrgyz peoples who now inhabit Central and Southwest Asia are of mixed origins, often stemming from fragments of many different tribe "


This means they also mixed with Mongols so at least a portion of it's Mongoloid admixture must have come from the Mongol invasion. But before Mongols were they were pure or predominately Caucasian ( with high R1a and high Caucasian mtDNA ) or were they already a 50/50 hybrid group with high caucasian and caucasian mtDNA ?

Kyrgyz with pre-Mongol admixture were only 50/50 Mongoloid-Caucasian ? Or maybe the R1a in Kyrgyz were already mongoloid to begin?

[ButlerKing]

B/C r1a1 came from early neolithic lake baikal area:

Maternal and Paternal Polymorphisms in Prehistoric Siberian Populations of Lake Baikal
https://era.library.ualberta.ca/files/wm117r51m#.V8oGHE0rLIV


About maternal and paternal caucasian dna of Kyrgyz. Do you think it's possibly that modern Kyrgyz DNA was formed from mongoloid males with R1a and Caucasoid females ? assuming the invaders Turkic were predominant Mongoloid males with caucasian admixture that means we can't treat them a simply C3, O3, N1, Q, D pure mongoloid invaders. They could a mix of C3, Q, N or maybe R1a, R1b, or maybe mostly R1 with some C3, Q

Because you see it's not uncommon for predominant Mongoloid males like Kyrgyz to marry Caucasoid or predominant Caucasoid Tajik females which makes me think maybe Kyrgyz was 90% Mongoloid but with R1a but later became more Caucasoid by acquiring 20% more Caucasoid DNA by intermarriage with other Caucasoid groups.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1xlDeSLHsUE/TYD6qddqdAI/AAAAAAAAAFI/ynT1BeaK0IM/s1600/Ziola.jpg
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/D8D1NP/kyrgyz-man-and-tajik-women-relaxing-in-a-teahouse-of-tajikistan-D8D1NP.jpg
http://www.marksmayo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DSC_0165.jpg

[Rethel]

This means they also mixed with Mongols. But before Mongols were they were pure or predominately Caucasian ( with high R1a and high Caucasian mtDNA ) or were they already a 50/50 hybrid group with high caucasian and caucasian mtDNA?

Now I remind myself.

If I remember correctly Kyrgyzes were at some point of time whites. Some 2200 years ago.

But according to aDNA, they had to absorbed 70% of mongols.
And becasue they were so numerous, they obviously changed their language.

Look at the Bulgars - they were slavisied, similarly Kyrgyzes could be turkified.

30% on average of Turks is of IE provenance anyway.
First Turkic state was created by IEs and even very name of Turks is probably of IE origin.
Coincidently, first rulers from some reasons chose turkic language as main tounge for their Kaganate.
Nothing strange also, if we consider such example as Persian Empire, where main language was aramaic.

[Rethel]

About maternal and paternal caucasian dna of Kyrgyz. Do you it's possibly that Kyrgyz was formed from mongoloid males with R1a and Caucasoid females ? assuming the invaders Turkic were predominant Mongoloid males with caucasian admixture that means we can't treat them as simply C3, O3, N1, Q, D mongoloid invaders. They could a mix of C3, Q, N or maybe R1a, R1b, or maybe mostly R1 with some C3, Q

It had to be a complecate process, on which many levels of new people were contributed.
It have to be rememberd also, that on the steppe constantly some horda conquered another,
they were also making changeable confederations, and finally, many R1a already lived in
present day Kirgizia before Kyrgyzes arrived - the same as some mongoloids.

[ButlerKing]

Now I remind myself.

If I remember correctly Kyrgyzes were at some point of time whites. Some 1500 years ago.

But according to aDNA, they had to absorbed 70% of mongols.
And becasue they were so numerous, they obviously changed their language.

Look at the Bulgars - they were slavisied, similarly Kyrgyzes could be turkified.

30% on average of Turks is of IE provenance anyway.
First Turkic state was created by IEs and even very name of Turks is probably of IE origin.
Coincidently, first rulers from some reasons chose turkic language as main tounge for their Kaganate.
Nothing strange also, if we consider such example as Persian Empire, where main language was aramaic.

I seriously doubt the first Turkic state was created by IE's but even if that was the case. Maybe Turkic was originally Siberian Mongoloid with paternal IE' ancestry. The Pazyryk culture is a Iranic but the males were part Mongoloid and females were Europoid.


SO LONG BEFORE ANY TURKIC R1a......... there was already part Mongoloid ( R1a ) IE people.



Pazyryk culture dating 600BC this is before the formation of Turkic ethnicity.

" Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population.[6] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid.[7] "

Another cultures also show the same type of burials


Anayino culture

Sculptural reconstruction of men Lugovskyi burial
Ananyino culture. Gypsum. MMGerasimov work.


" Reconstruction of the mounds number 5, 6 show burial Stone Barn in racial make women Ural Europoid mixed type men - striking features of Central Asian Mongoloid."

http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641901/tyurk1.jpg

http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641909/f-u1.jpg

[Rethel]

The early Kyrgyz people, known as Yenisei Kyrgyz, have their origins in the western parts of modern-day Mongolia and first appear in written records in the Chinese annals of the Sima Qian's Records of the Grand Historian (compiled 109 BC to 91 BC), as Gekun (鬲昆, 隔昆) or Jiankun (堅昆). They were described in Tang Dynasty texts as having "red hair and green eyes", while those with dark hair and eyes were said to be descendants of a Chinese general Li Ling.[18] In Chinese sources, these Kyrgyz tribes were described as fair-skinned, green- or blue-eyed and red-haired people with a mixture of European and Mongol features.[19][20][21][22] The Middle Age Chinese composition Tanghuiyao of the 8–10th century transcribed the name "Kyrgyz" as Tsze-gu (Kirgut), and their tamga was depicted as identical to the tamga of present-day Kyrgyz tribes Azyk, Bugu, Cherik, Sary Bagysh and few others.[23]

So they were mixed allready 2200 years ago.

The name Kyrgyz means 40 tribes - so obviously they are a mix of everything during this hundrets of years.

[ButlerKing]

It had to be a complecate process, on which many levels of new people were contributed.
It have to be rememberd also, that on the steppe constantly some horda conquered another,
they were also making changeable confederations, and finally, many R1a already lived in
present day Kirgizia before Kyrgyzes arrived - the same as some mongoloids.

Yes sure but how do we know if those R1a were already tainted by heavy Mongoloid admixture.

I wish I could find reconstruction of Kyrgyz 50 years before the Mongol invasion of Central Asia.

Because even around the year 1124 - 1218 , Central Asia was already ruled by a Mongolic tribe called Khitan who came from Manchuria/East Mongolia for 100 years so they must have mixed to a great degree too.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/KaraKhitaiAD1200.png/250px-KaraKhitaiAD1200.png




The early Kyrgyz people, known as Yenisei Kyrgyz, have their origins in the western parts of modern-day Mongolia and first appear in written records in the Chinese annals of the Sima Qian's Records of the Grand Historian (compiled 109 BC to 91 BC), as Gekun (鬲昆, 隔昆) or Jiankun (堅昆). They were described in Tang Dynasty texts as having "red hair and green eyes", while those with dark hair and eyes were said to be descendants of a Chinese general Li Ling.[18] In Chinese sources, these Kyrgyz tribes were described as fair-skinned, green- or blue-eyed and red-haired people with a mixture of European and Mongol features.[19][20][21][22] The Middle Age Chinese composition Tanghuiyao of the 8–10th century transcribed the name "Kyrgyz" as Tsze-gu (Kirgut), and their tamga was depicted as identical to the tamga of present-day Kyrgyz tribes Azyk, Bugu, Cherik, Sary Bagysh and few others.[23]

So they were mixed allready 2200 years ago.

The name Kyrgyz means 40 tribes - so obviously they are a mix of everything during this hundrets of years.

According to Chinese record they claim the Kyrgyz leaders were black hair, black eyes and looked different from the rest but I really don't know the proportion of their admixture

it says

" The dominant type of the Yenesy Kyrgyz was Mongoloid, but there is an indisputable admixture of Europoid elements in their composition. The specific position of this admixture is approximately the same as with the modern Kirgiz.[18] "

[Rethel]

I seriously doubt the first Turkic state was created by IE's but even if that was the case.

State is not = people. IEs could created state with mongolian people. Simply.

Many if not all kagans from first turkut's kaganate have Iranic names. The turkic script is
a sogdian one, and sogdian was a cultural language of the kagante. Probably majority of
people were of mongolian provenance, so altaic language dominated all members of this state.


Maybe Turkic was originally Siberian Mongoloid with paternal IE' ancestry. The Pazyryk culture is a Iranic but the males were part Mongoloid and females were Europoid.

In this area mixes were happening since millenia, so it is nothing strange.
But some lingusts point on that, that turk is an iranian name. If I correctly
remember, there was some iranic/scythian tribe with similar name, and what
is also important, iranic mythology considerd them equaly related people who
descendend from three brothers, one was Sarmatian, second Turk and fourth
Iranian. It of course doesn not mean, that 100% of turkic speakers in XIII century
had that provenance, but the elite and main culture making part of that people.

Hungarians are from Ural and Syberia, but only 0,48% of them is really of that provenance.
similar situation is woth Bulgars. So, you have to divided people on parts to knw, who is from.
There is no one good answer, becasue there is no one people.


" Reconstruction of the mounds number 5, 6 show burial Stone Barn in racial make women Ural Europoid mixed type men - striking features of Central Asian Mongoloid."

Because they were mixing - it is logical, then if on the steppe lived both kind
of people, then they were mixing with each other. What other did you expect?

[Rethel]

Yes sure but how do we know if those R1a were already tainted by heavy Mongoloid admixture.

It could have it, of course.
Especially, that among Kyrgyzes the usual way of making a wife is to kidnaped her.
Even today 1/5 of marriages are making by this way.
That practice could have it's origin when early not-yet-named-and-speak-kyrgyzes
where kidnapping women from other tribes. Obviously mongoloidic tribes. Plus some
confederations which they made, male slaves and captives which they took - all
this could very early influenced their look. BUT the very fact, that they were white
and light pigmented people, shows, that they were originally IEs - especially that
they have big amount of R1 a and b, and that early sources say it, and that they
originally lived in the very same place, where lived earlier/other surly IE people.

[ButlerKing]

It could have it, of course.
Especially, that among Kyrgyzes the usual way of making a wife is to kidnaped her.
Even today 1/5 of marriages are making by this way.
That practice could have it's origin when early not-yet-named-and-speak-kyrgyzes
where kidnapping women from other tribes. Obviously mongoloidic tribes. Plus some
confederations which they made, male slaves and captives which they took - all
this could very early influenced their look. BUT the very fact, that they were white
and light pigmented people, shows, that they were originally IEs - especially that
they have big amount of R1 a and b, and that early sources say it, and that they
originally lived in the very same place, where lived earlier/other surly IE people.



" The dominant type of the Yenesy Kyrgyz was Mongoloid, but there is and indisputable admixture of Europoid elements in their composition. The specific position of this admixture is approximately the same as with the modern Kirgiz.[18] "


Source ----> Anthropology of the North: Translations from Russian Sources, Issues 1-3 [1]

[Rethel]

" The dominant type of the Yenesy Kyrgyz was Mongoloid, but there is and indisputable admixture of Europoid elements in their composition. The specific position of this admixture is approximately the same as with the modern Kirgiz.[18] "


Source ----> Anthropology of the North: Translations from Russian Sources, Issues 1-3 [1]

In which time?

[ButlerKing]

In which time?

That's what I like to know but it's definitely before before the time of Mongol invasion. The yenesei Kirghiz migrated from Siberia to what it's today Kirghistan, truth is the territory that inhabits kirghizstan was named after the tribe there was no kirghizstan before the soviet union.

[ButlerKing]

In which time?

Also there is a theory that even claimed the original Kirghiz as Uralic people who became turkified.
The Uralic Caucasian and Uralic Mongoloids are known for blonde hair, red hair ,brown hair.

Like the Khanty are a Mongoloid Uralic people having blonde and red hair is nothing uncommon for them, they are also predominant mongoloid group with high europoid admixture of 35-45%. Maybe the Kirghiz looked like these ?

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/y-qZFg427qQ.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_54ac1a89.jpg
http://s1083.photobucket.com/albums/j381/aaa_aaa/khanty_people_29611911_280903136_zps2lcm2ygj.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_0da4cb87.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_0e55d024.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_6e45a22e.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_9f870985.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_61fc25cf.jpg
http://s1083.photobucket.com/albums/j381/aaa_aaa/khanty_people_201586478_342228363_zpsgoo6pe4f.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_fc00d540.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_a9e90433.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_093a5b79.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_86d650f4.jpg
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j381/aaa_aaa/khanty-3_sisters_zps15907e62.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_9717c9b7.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/x_19bef751.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/hantti/gchjdfgyj.jpg

[Petalpusher]

Europe would be only 70% W.Eurasian applying the same logic based on Y/mt but it's +95% on average. "When your logic keeps failing, maybe find another logic" non Mongoloid proverb.

[Peterski]

B/C r1a1 came from early neolithic lake baikal area:

Maternal and Paternal Polymorphisms in Prehistoric Siberian Populations of Lake Baikal
https://era.library.ualberta.ca/files/wm117r51m#.V8oGHE0rLIV

The oldest currently known sample of R1a1 is from Europe - from Karelia.

That sample from Lake Baikal is much younger. Here are radiocarbon dates:

1) Baikal sample is 7250–6040 years BP (6125–4885 BCE), see Mooder 2006:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16323184

Quote:

"Noncalibrated radiocarbon dates (Isotrace, University of Toronto) from Lokomotiv suggest that this cemetery was used from approximately 7250–6040 BP. These dates correspond to the period between 6125–4885 BC when calibrated with the methodology of Stuiver et al. (1998)"

2) European (Karelian) sample is ca. 2000 years older according to Fu 2016:

See Extended Data Table 1 from Fu et al., "The Genetic History of Ice Age Europe":

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301742169_The_genetic_history_of_Ice_Age_Europe

Karelian R1a is dated to 8800–7950 years BP by Fu 2016: https://s21.postimg.io/4z3cnibiv/Karelian_HG.png

https://s21.postimg.io/4z3cnibiv/Karelian_HG.png

"Ancestral Journeys" dates it to 6850–6000 years BC: http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

https://s22.postimg.io/baarhhftt/EHG_samples.png

[johen]

The oldest currently known sample of R1a1 is from Europe - from Karelia.



Problem is where this one came from.


comments regarding ceramic's Central Asian trek by Jordan & Zvelebil:

"After c. 7,500 BC (9,500 BP), in the context of early post-glacial environmental conditions, pottery is dispersed further to the north-west, via the northerly route through central Russia, the Upper Volga, into Karelia and beyond, forming various local traditions of pointed-based pitted and combed ware, such as the Sperrings pottery of Finland, and entering the East Baltic and northern Scandinavia by about 5,000 BC"

the similar pottery of lake baikal was found in Karelia area.
http://archaeology.org.az/pdf/AASIA&E%20presentation7.pdf

[Peterski]

Lake Baikal region was inhabited by Caucasoid populations from deep prehistory until the Iron Age:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture#Genetics_and_physical_anthropolo gy

Quote:

"The Andronovo have been described by archaeologists as exhibiting pronounced Europoid features.[16] A 2004 study also established that, during the Bronze/Iron Age period, the majority of the population of Kazakhstan (part of the Andronovo culture during Bronze Age), was of West Eurasian origin (with mtDNA haplogroups such as U, H, HV, T, I and W), and that prior to the thirteenth to seventh century BC, all Kazakh samples belonged to European lineages.[23] Other studies confirm, that during Bronze Age in areas to the north of present-day China, the boundary between Europoid and Mongoloid populations was on the eastern slopes of the Altai, in Western Mongolia.[24][25] Some Europoid influence extended also into Northeast Mongolia,[26] and the population of present-day Kazakhstan was Europoid during the Bronze/Iron Age period.[27] Archaeological investigations likewise suggest, that in the steppe region of Central Asia and the Altai Mountains, the first food production began towards the end of the 3rd millennium BC and that the peoples who first entered this region were Europoids of the Afanasevo culture who came from the Aral Sea area (Kelteminar culture).[28]

In 2009, a genetic study of ancient Siberian cultures, the Andronovo culture, the Karasuk culture, the Tagar culture and the Tashtyk culture, was published in Human Genetics.[16] Ten individuals of the Andronovo horizon in southern Siberia from 1400 BC to 1000 BC were surveyed.[16] Extractions of mtDNA from nine individuals were determined to represent two samples of haplogroup U4, one sample of Z1, one sample T1, one sample of U2e, one sample of T4, one sample of H, one sample of K2b and one sample of U5a1.[16] Extractions of Y-DNA from one individual was determined to belong to Y-DNA haplogroup C (but not C3), while the other two extractions were determined to belong to haplogroup R1a1a, which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans.[16] Of the individuals surveyed only two (or 22%) were determined to be Mongoloid while seven (or 78%) were determined to be Europoid, with the majority being light-eyed and light-haired.[16]

In June 2015, another genetic study[29] surveyed one additional male and three female individuals of Andronovo culture. Extraction of Y-DNA from this individual was determined to belong to R1a1a1b2a2.[30] Extractions of mtDNA were determined to represent two samples of U4 and two samples of U2e.

References:

[16] Keyser, Christine; Bouakaze, Caroline; Crubézy, Eric; Nikolaev, Valery G.; Montagnon, Daniel; Reis, Tatiana; Ludes, Bertrand (May 16, 2009). "Ancient DNA provides new insights into the history of south Siberian Kurgan people". Human Genetics. Springer-Verlag. 126: 395–410. doi:10.1007/s00439-009-0683-0. PMID 19449030. Retrieved 15 February 2015.
[23] Fox, Lalueza; Sampietro, M. L.; Gilbert, M. T. P.; Facchini, F.; Pettener, D.; Bertranpetit, J. (May 7, 2004). "Unravelling migrations in the steppe: mitochondrial DNA sequences from ancient central Asians.". Proceedings of the Royal Society. Royal Society. 271: 941–7. doi:10.1098/rspb.2004.2698. PMC 1691686free to read. PMID 15255049.
[24] González-Ruiz, Mercedes; et al. (2012). "Tracing the Origin of the East-West Population Admixture in the Altai Region (Central Asia)". PLOS ONE. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0048904.
[25] Hollard, Clémence; et al. (2014). "Strong genetic admixture in the Altai at the Middle Bronze Age revealed by uniparental and ancestry informative markers". FSI:Genetics. doi:10.1016/j.fsigen.2014.05.012.
[26] Kim, Kijeong; et al. (2010). "A western Eurasian male is found in 2000-year-old elite Xiongnu cemetery in Northeast Mongolia". American Journal of Physical Anthropology. doi:10.1002/ajpa.21242.
[27] Ismagulov, O; et al. (2010). "Physical Anthropology of Kazakh People and their Genesis".
[28] Panyushkina, Irina P; et al. (2013). Liviu Giosan; Dorian Q. Fuller; Kathleen Nicoll; Rowan K. Flad; Peter D. Clift, eds. "Climate-Induced Changes in Population Dynamics of Siberian Scythians (700-250 BC)". ResearchGate. doi:10.1029/2012GM001220.
[29] Allentoft, Morten E.; Sikora, Martin; et al. (2015). "Population genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia". Nature. doi:10.1038/nature14507.
[30] sample RISE512 (Allensoft et al 2015)"

[johen]

Lake Baikal region was inhabited by Caucasoid populations from deep prehistory until the Iron Age:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture#Genetics_and_physical_anthropolo gy

Quote:

"The Andronovo have been described by archaeologists as exhibiting pronounced Europoid features.[16] A 2004 study also established that, during the Bronze/Iron Age period, the majority of the population of Kazakhstan (part of the Andronovo culture during Bronze Age), was of West Eurasian origin (with mtDNA haplogroups such as U, H, HV, T, I and W), and that prior to the thirteenth to seventh century BC, all Kazakh samples belonged to European lineages.[23] Other studies confirm, that during Bronze Age in areas to the north of present-day China, the boundary between Europoid and Mongoloid populations was on the eastern slopes of the Altai, in Western Mongolia.[24][25] Some Europoid influence extended also into Northeast Mongolia,[26] and the population of present-day Kazakhstan was Europoid during the Bronze/Iron Age period.[27] Archaeological investigations likewise suggest, that in the steppe region of Central Asia and the Altai Mountains, the first food production began towards the end of the 3rd millennium BC and that the peoples who first entered this region were Europoids of the Afanasevo culture who came from the Aral Sea area (Kelteminar culture).[28]

In 2009, a genetic study of ancient Siberian cultures, the Andronovo culture, the Karasuk culture, the Tagar culture and the Tashtyk culture, was published in Human Genetics.[16] Ten individuals of the Andronovo horizon in southern Siberia from 1400 BC to 1000 BC were surveyed.[16] Extractions of mtDNA from nine individuals were determined to represent two samples of haplogroup U4, one sample of Z1, one sample T1, one sample of U2e, one sample of T4, one sample of H, one sample of K2b and one sample of U5a1.[16] Extractions of Y-DNA from one individual was determined to belong to Y-DNA haplogroup C (but not C3), while the other two extractions were determined to belong to haplogroup R1a1a, which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans.[16] Of the individuals surveyed only two (or 22%) were determined to be Mongoloid while seven (or 78%) were determined to be Europoid, with the majority being light-eyed and light-haired.[16]

In June 2015, another genetic study[29] surveyed one additional male and three female individuals of Andronovo culture. Extraction of Y-DNA from this individual was determined to belong to R1a1a1b2a2.[30] Extractions of mtDNA were determined to represent two samples of U4 and two samples of U2e.


However, if you see the admixture, iron age altai people seems to get their genes from Okunevo, american indian who were altai natives.
https://s31.postimg.org/5qn0sb09n/Capture2.png

And the similar thing of kyrgyz happens in modern altai people.


Interestingly, in western Truvinian sample, the frequency of haplogroup R1a1a was considerably
lower than in the central sample. Based on the closeness of the Altai, which is populated by the representatives of a more Caucasoid SouthSiberian racial
type, it would be reasonable to expect the west–east decrease of the R1a1a frequency on the territory of Tuva. However, this was not observed, and the change of the haplogroup frequency was rather the opposite, as the eastern samples demonstrated maximum frequency of this haplogroup. At the first glance, the result obtained is paradoxical. Specifically, in terms of anthropology, the most Caucasoid population of the western parts of Tuva displays the minimum of haplogroup R1a1a, while in the most Mongoloid population of Todja, the maximum of this haplogroup is observed

http://medgenetics.ru/UserFile/File/...244-Y-Tuva.pdf

Anthrologist C. Brace also mentioned the possibility that mongol bronze crania specimen be close to Native american


Mongolia is a long way east of any of the other samples used, but it has previously been shown that the Mongolian Bronze Age sample is unrelated to modern Mongols and has more in common with prehistoric Europeans and the Native Americans of the United States-Canada border.

So, it is too early to decide that R1a1 came from western Europe.

[Rolnik szuka zony]

The early Kyrgyz people, known as Yenisei Kyrgyz, have their origins in the western parts of modern-day Mongolia and first appear in written records in the Chinese annals of the Sima Qian's Records of the Grand Historian (compiled 109 BC to 91 BC), as Gekun (鬲昆, 隔昆) or Jiankun (堅昆). They were described in Tang Dynasty texts as having "red hair and green eyes", while those with dark hair and eyes were said to be descendants of a Chinese general Li Ling.[18] In Chinese sources, these Kyrgyz tribes were described as fair-skinned, green- or blue-eyed and red-haired people with a mixture of European and Mongol features.[19][20][21][22] The Middle Age Chinese composition Tanghuiyao of the 8–10th century transcribed the name "Kyrgyz" as Tsze-gu (Kirgut), and their tamga was depicted as identical to the tamga of present-day Kyrgyz tribes Azyk, Bugu, Cherik, Sary Bagysh and few others.[23]

So they were mixed allready 2200 years ago.



Now they still have quite a big share of mixed eyes (green and hazel).
And if we treat lighter shades as sign of Caucasoid ancestry they are 45-37% white.

From Oshanin [1965] - some samples were without eye color measured
http://i66.tinypic.com/5ewrxs.jpg

[Rolnik szuka zony]

For example Kazakhs are darker
https://s13.postimg.org/5buuas7nb/kazak.jpg

[Peterski]

Native Americans are not fully Mongoloid.

They are a separate race of their own, which emerged from Mongoloid-Caucasoid mixture.

Plus maybe some minor Australoid admixture.

[Rethel]

Native Americans are not fully Mongoloid.

They are a separate race of their own, which emerged from Mongoloid-Caucasoid mixture.

Plus maybe some minor Australoid admixture.

All races emerged by such/similar way :)
They are simply amerindian - part of yellow odmiany of human.
Races are classyfyed typologically, not by origin.

[ButlerKing]

Native Americans are not fully Mongoloid.

They are a separate race of their own, which emerged from Mongoloid-Caucasoid mixture.

Plus maybe some minor Australoid admixture.


They are Proto-Mongoloid with minor Caucasoid admixture.

http://signaturebooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/dna2.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Native Americans are not fully Mongoloid.

They are a separate race of their own, which emerged from Mongoloid-Caucasoid mixture.

Plus maybe some minor Australoid admixture.

They are not fully Mongoloid but are still Mongoloid. In same South Asians, North Africans, Yemens are not fully Caucasoid but are still Caucasoid.