Comparison of Turks, Greeks, Sicilians and South Italians

[Danishmend]

I'm really tired of seeing posts like "Western Turks are assimilated Greeks and closer to Sicilians genetically" or "Western Turks are Balkanites etc". Let's resolve this once and for all.

Eurogenes Steppe k10 calculator
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb0GVyrf2ztR_QvoIYcmhWtsYv0p39avjqM-G3-6Xew/edit?pli=1#gid=1809893991

Here is the comparison of Western Turks, Cappadocian Turks, Greeks, Sicilians and South Italians.

Turkish_Balıkesir = Northwest Anatolian Turkish samples (Hodoğlugil & Mahley, 2012)
Turkish_Aydın = Southwest Anatolian Turkish samples (Hodoğlugil & Mahley, 2012)
Turkish_Cappadocia = East-Central Anatolian Turkish samples from historical Cappadocia region (Behar et al.)

Steppe = component based on Yamnaya samples
Hindu_Kush = ANE-related South Central Asian component



Near_Eastern
East_Asian
Siberian
Oceanian
WHG_UHG
Sub_Saharan
Hindu_Kush
Steppe
Amerindian
Southeast_Asian


Turkish_Aydın

43,45

6,62

6,17

0,33

8,23

0,47

17,32

16,17

0,76

0,44


Turkish_Balıkesir

41,63

6,44

6,05

0,64

9,93

0,22

16,98

16,57

0,50

1,01


Greek

51,80

0,23

0,41

0,37

20,03

0,14

7,41

19,03

0,34

0,22


Sicilian

54,70

0,29

0,30

0,31

19,21

1,80

9,71

13,04

0,11

0,53


South_Italian

57,70

0,18

0,24

0,35

16,62

1,12

10,88

12,21

0,44

0,26


Turkish_Cappadocia

46,73

2,90

3,20

0,42

5,08

0,20

22,74

17,38

0,58

0,75



http://i.hizliresim.com/0ya6v8.png (http://hizliresim.com/0ya6v8)


Turkish_Balıkesir: top 20 populations
Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish_Balikesir @ 0,24591
2 Turkish_Aydin @ 2,650914
3 Turkish_Cappadocia @ 10,156451 --> Eastern Turks from Cappadocia
4 Kumyk @ 14,251155 --> North Caucasian Turkic people
5 Balkar @ 15,730195 --> North Caucasian Turkic people
6 North_Ossetian @ 15,771541
7 Nogai @ 16,381739 --> North Caucasian Turkic people
8 Adygei @ 16,670521
9 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 18,06219
10 Abkhasian @ 18,944679
11 Greek @ 19,305232
12 Chechen @ 19,318086
13 Georgian @ 19,370041
14 Sicilian @ 19,876989
15 West_Sicilian @ 19,957881
16 Maltese @ 20,211052
17 East_Sicilian @ 20,229785
18 South_Italian @ 20,77649
19 Armenian @ 21,046241
20 Kurdish @ 21,258097



Turkish_Aydın: top 20 populations
Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish_Aydin @ 0,910749
2 Turkish_Balikesir @ 3,19076
3 Turkish_Cappadocia @ 8,406645 --> Eastern Turks from Cappadocia
4 Kumyk @ 14,693317 --> North Caucasian Turkic people
5 Balkar @ 15,767996 --> North Caucasian Turkic people
6 North_Ossetian @ 15,793551
7 Adygei @ 16,623984
8 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 17,592416
9 Abkhasian @ 17,802281
10 Georgian @ 17,871352
11 Nogai @ 18,135272 --> North Caucasian Turkic people
12 Armenian @ 18,799562
13 Greek @ 19,587151
14 Sicilian @ 19,638308
15 East_Sicilian @ 19,67336
16 Maltese @ 19,739169
17 Syrian @ 19,775049
18 Lebanese @ 19,807055
19 Chechen @ 19,897039
20 South_Italian @ 19,949916


Greek: top 20 populations
Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek @ 1,272398
2 Albanian @ 5,313888
3 West_Sicilian @ 5,445821
4 Tuscan @ 6,778147
5 Kosovar @ 7,219926
6 Sicilian @ 7,340131
7 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 7,79465
8 East_Sicilian @ 9,210925
9 Maltese @ 9,513861
10 South_Italian @ 10,154467
11 Bergamo @ 11,668944
12 Bulgarian @ 12,920333
13 Macedonian @ 13,33898
14 Romanian @ 14,146702
15 Sephardic_Jewish @ 15,105854
16 Montenegrin @ 16,082692
17 Moroccan_Jewish @ 16,831561
18 Moroccan_Jew @ 17,432505
19 Serbian @ 17,820834
20 Turkish_Balikesir @ 20,212987



Sicilian top 20 populations
Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian @ 0,812396
2 East_Sicilian @ 2,409616
3 Maltese @ 2,552538
4 West_Sicilian @ 2,814863
5 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 3,062419
6 South_Italian @ 4,090838
7 Greek @ 7,471302
8 Tuscan @ 8,727119
9 Sephardic_Jewish @ 9,016088
10 Moroccan_Jewish @ 10,070877
11 Moroccan_Jew @ 10,844853
12 Albanian @ 11,281786
13 Kosovar @ 12,92547
14 Bergamo @ 13,628091
15 Libyan_Jew @ 14,132393
16 Cyprian @ 16,250957
17 Cypriot @ 16,930616
18 Bulgarian @ 18,775849
19 Macedonian @ 19,20676
20 Romanian @ 19,845327



South_Italian top 20 populations
Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Italian @ 1,155875
2 East_Sicilian @ 2,847675
3 Maltese @ 3,951237
4 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 4,468145
5 Sicilian @ 4,852401
6 Sephardic_Jewish @ 5,268703
7 Moroccan_Jewish @ 6,91207
8 West_Sicilian @ 7,072868
9 Moroccan_Jew @ 7,517767
10 Libyan_Jew @ 10,506982
11 Greek @ 10,697877
12 Cyprian @ 12,302159
13 Tuscan @ 12,798345
14 Cypriot @ 12,940506
15 Albanian @ 15,072847
16 Kosovar @ 16,8763
17 Lebanese @ 17,515585
18 Bergamo @ 17,71876
19 Druze @ 18,772959
20 Palestinian @ 18,963542

[Danishmend]

Conclusion:

• Western Turks are closer to Eastern/Cappadocian Turks than to any foreign population (including Greeks, Sicilians, South Italians, Balkanites)

[brennus dux gallorum]

turks look closer to "balkanites" than to Italians or Greeks. Only a small part of them have pure med. features, and those live near the western coasts.

[user_]

What about Black Sea Turks?

[Böri]

What about Black Sea Turks?

Black Sea ethnic Turks (like me) are in the Turkish cluster. Laz people more like Georgians, more 'West Asian, and closer to Trans Kavkaz groups etc

[Danishmend]

What about Black Sea Turks?

Repost:

Northeast Anatolia/Eastern Black Sea region seems to have little-to-none Central Asian/Turkic admixture due to several historical reasons, Turks from this region are usually outliers and tend to be closer to native peoples of South Caucasus and Eastern Black Sea (such as Laz people) than to Turks from the rest of Anatolia. Central and Western Black Sea regions (west of Trabzon) on the other hand are within the main Turkish cluster.
http://i.hizliresim.com/vZjWyz.png (http://hizliresim.com/vZjWyz)

[user_]

Repost:

Northeast Anatolia/Eastern Black Sea region seems to have little-to-none Central Asian/Turkic admixture due to several historical reasons, Turks from this region are usually outliers and tend to be closer to native peoples of South Caucasus and Eastern Black Sea (such as Laz people) than to Turks from the rest of Anatolia. Central and Western Black Sea regions (west of Trabzon) on the other hand are closer to Turkish average.
http://i.hizliresim.com/vZjWyz.png (http://hizliresim.com/vZjWyz)

North Eastern Turks are the most pale, are not they?

[Sikeliot]

South Italians on the mainland are the only ones scoring Levant, which means they are closer to Levantines than either Turks, Greeks, or even Sicilians are (though I suspect if extended to top 25, Sicilians would score Lebanese but the others would not.

Can you do top 20 for East Sicilians and West Sicilians separately?

[Casandrinos]

Western Turks from Aydin are newcomer brought up from far Northeast. Stop this propaganda bullshit. Post some fellas from Constantinople , with non - Tatar ,Uzbek or some other non-Turkish ancestry with actual Mongol affinities.

[Danishmend]

Western Turks from Aydin are newcomer brought up from far Northeast. Stop this propaganda bullshit. Post some fellas from Constantinople , with non - Tatar ,Uzbek or some other non-Turkish ancestry with actual Mongol affinities.

All of them are native ethnic Turks of Aydın and Balıkesir (see Hodoğlugil & Mahley, 2012 - in case you don't trust me). Gültekin for example is from West Anatolia too and he is identical to these Turks. 90% of Istanbul's inhabitants are from different regions of the country, it is a cosmopolitan city. Stop posting garbage.





South Italians on the mainland are the only ones scoring Levant, which means they are closer to Levantines than either Turks, Greeks, or even Sicilians are (though I suspect if extended to top 25, Sicilians would score Lebanese but the others would not.

Can you do top 20 for East Sicilians and West Sicilians separately?


East Sicilian top 20

Using 1 population approximation:
1 East_Sicilian @ 0,984204
2 South_Italian @ 1,933439
3 Maltese @ 2,079361
4 Sicilian @ 2,878833
5 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 3,306755
6 West_Sicilian @ 5,222845
7 Sephardic_Jewish @ 6,656762
8 Moroccan_Jewish @ 7,869781
9 Moroccan_Jew @ 8,637523
10 Greek @ 9,476962
11 Tuscan @ 11,033118
12 Libyan_Jew @ 11,82202
13 Albanian @ 13,59157
14 Cyprian @ 14,159917
15 Cypriot @ 14,742305
16 Kosovar @ 15,291495
17 Bergamo @ 15,874133
18 Lebanese @ 18,625408
19 Palestinian @ 20,145736
20 Jordanian @ 20,153163


West Sicilian top 20

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_Sicilian @ 0,748488
2 Sicilian @ 2,646117
3 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 4,680697
4 East_Sicilian @ 4,903355
5 Maltese @ 4,92875
6 Greek @ 5,532541
7 Tuscan @ 6,377988
8 South_Italian @ 6,490566
9 Albanian @ 8,905388
10 Kosovar @ 10,414017
11 Bergamo @ 11,379669
12 Sephardic_Jewish @ 11,5285
13 Moroccan_Jewish @ 12,660306
14 Moroccan_Jew @ 13,440437
15 Bulgarian @ 16,328909
16 Libyan_Jew @ 16,700314
17 Macedonian @ 16,713789
18 Romanian @ 17,391002
19 Cyprian @ 18,435449
20 Cypriot @ 19,198076

[JMack]

Sincerely, i find the subject pretty interesting, but as you showed yourself to be an uneducated asshole in the other thread i'm so tired to discuss or post material that contradicts the material you've posted (as i did in the other thread).

[Danishmend]

I knew some of you clueless c*nts were going to deny this fact and spam the thread with garbage. The anthrofora myth of Western Turks being (genetically) identical to Greeks is debunked by genetic science. The Turks from the westernmost regions are closer to their eastern brethren than to any foreign population.

https://static.ylilauta.org/files/rh/orig/hsj8ixkv/angry.jpg



Sincerely, i find the subject pretty interesting, but as you showed yourself to be an uneducated asshole in the other thread i'm so tired to discuss or post material that contradicts the material you've posted (as i did in the other thread).

Please post them, I beg you. The only connection between Turks, Sicilians and South Italians is Neolithic Anatolian admixture, which is diluted in present-day Asia Minor. Sicilians, Greeks and South Italians have more Neolithic Anatolian admixture than Anatolian Turks, it was the other way around before the Turkish migration (and bronze-age CHG expansion), pre-Turkic Anatolian natives had more Neolithic Anatolia admixture than Greeks, Sicilians and South Italians.

Late Neolithic Anatolia (Kumtepe)
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2815%2901516-X

Highlights
•Kum6 shows a strong population continuity with present-day Sardinia
•Kum6 expresses connections to the central Eurasian gene pool
•Kum6 shares notable affinity with the Iceman, a 5,300-year-old southern European
•Genetic affinities to both East and West suggest continuous contact with Anatolia

Summary
Anatolia and the Near East have long been recognized as the epicenter of the Neolithic expansion through archaeological evidence. Recent archaeogenetic studies on Neolithic European human remains have shown that the Neolithic expansion in Europe was driven westward and northward by migration from a supposed Near Eastern origin [ 1–5 ]. However, this expansion and the establishment of numerous culture complexes in the Aegean and Balkans did not occur until 8,500 before present (BP), over 2,000 years after the initial settlements in the Neolithic core area [ 6–9 ]. We present ancient genome-wide sequence data from 6,700-year-old human remains excavated from a Neolithic context in Kumtepe, located in northwestern Anatolia near the well-known (and younger) site Troy [ 10 ]. Kumtepe is one of the settlements that emerged around 7,000 BP, after the initial expansion wave brought Neolithic practices to Europe. We show that this individual displays genetic similarities to the early European Neolithic gene pool and modern-day Sardinians, as well as a genetic affinity to modern-day populations from the Near East and the Caucasus. Furthermore, modern-day Anatolian Turks carry signatures of several admixture events from different populations that have diluted this early Neolithic farmer component, explaining why modern-day Sardinian populations, instead of modern-day Anatolian Turkish population, are genetically more similar to the people that drove the Neolithic expansion into Europe. Anatolia’s central geographic location appears to have served as a connecting point, allowing a complex contact network with other areas of the Near East and Europe throughout, and after, the Neolithic.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.tr/2016/01/kum6-sardinian-like-genome-from-late.html



Anatolia Neolithic admixture - Near East Neolithic K13 http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7637-Upcoming-Near-East-Neolithic-13-Gedmatch-Calculator




ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC



Sicilian

21.76



Greek

20.82



Turkish_Aydın

12.70



Turkish_Balıkesir

13.96



Sardinian

41.20

[Sikeliot]

East Sicilian

Using 1 population approximation:
1 East_Sicilian @ 0,984204
2 South_Italian @ 1,933439
3 Maltese @ 2,079361
4 Sicilian @ 2,878833
5 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 3,306755
6 West_Sicilian @ 5,222845
7 Sephardic_Jewish @ 6,656762
8 Moroccan_Jewish @ 7,869781
9 Moroccan_Jew @ 8,637523
10 Greek @ 9,476962
11 Tuscan @ 11,033118
12 Libyan_Jew @ 11,82202
13 Albanian @ 13,59157
14 Cyprian @ 14,159917
15 Cypriot @ 14,742305
16 Kosovar @ 15,291495
17 Bergamo @ 15,874133
18 Lebanese @ 18,625408
19 Palestinian @ 20,145736
20 Jordanian @ 20,153163


West Sicilian top 20

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_Sicilian @ 0,748488
2 Sicilian @ 2,646117
3 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 4,680697
4 East_Sicilian @ 4,903355
5 Maltese @ 4,92875
6 Greek @ 5,532541
7 Tuscan @ 6,377988
8 South_Italian @ 6,490566
9 Albanian @ 8,905388
10 Kosovar @ 10,414017
11 Bergamo @ 11,379669
12 Sephardic_Jewish @ 11,5285
13 Moroccan_Jewish @ 12,660306
14 Moroccan_Jew @ 13,440437
15 Bulgarian @ 16,328909
16 Libyan_Jew @ 16,700314
17 Macedonian @ 16,713789
18 Romanian @ 17,391002
19 Cyprian @ 18,435449
20 Cypriot @ 19,198076


This is Catania vs Trapani, if I know the samples well. East Sicily = South Italy, more Levant shifted than Turks by a bit.

[Danishmend]

Updated (added Turkish_Istanbul). 2 out of 10 Turkish_Istanbul samples are obviously Balkanites (http://i.hizliresim.com/J3MjOQ.png) (Istanbul15781 and Istanbul25098, much higher WHG, lack of East Eurasian admixture, less Hindu-Kush), and Istanbul25095 seems to be Balkan Turk.



Near_Eastern
East_Asian
Siberian
Oceanian
WHG_UHG
Sub_Saharan
Hindu_Kush
Steppe
Amerindian
Southeast_Asian


Turkish_Aydın

43,45

6,62

6,17

0,33

8,23

0,47

17,32

16,17

0,76

0,44


Turkish_Balıkesir

41,63

6,44

6,05

0,64

9,93

0,22

16,98

16,57

0,50

1,01


Turkish_Cappadocia

46,73

2,90

3,20

0,42

5,08

0,20

22,74

17,38

0,58

0,75


Turkish_Istanbul

44,41

3,33

2,39

0,56

10,63

0,13

18,99

18,19

0,46

0,89


Greek

51,80

0,23

0,41

0,37

20,03

0,14

7,41

19,03

0,34

0,22


Sicilian

54,70

0,29

0,30

0,31

19,21

1,80

9,71

13,04

0,11

0,53


South_Italian

57,70

0,18

0,24

0,35

16,62

1,12

10,88

12,21

0,44

0,26





Turkish_Istanbul top 20 populations

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Turkish_Istanbul @ 0,571935
2 Turkish_Balikesir @ 6,362523
3 Turkish_Aydin @ 6,402802
4 Turkish_Cappadocia @ 7,147174
5 Kumyk @ 13,239638
6 North_Ossetian @ 14,670514
7 Balkar @ 14,743342
8 Adygei @ 14,854417
9 Georgian @ 15,496533
10 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 15,508748
11 Abkhasian @ 15,547446
12 Greek @ 17,01655
13 Armenian @ 17,14832
14 Sicilian @ 17,497591
15 Chechen @ 17,632801
16 West_Sicilian @ 17,641344
17 East_Sicilian @ 17,76913
18 Maltese @ 17,891372
19 South_Italian @ 18,05479
20 Kurdish @ 18,430637




This is Catania vs Trapani, if I know the samples well. East Sicily = South Italy, more Levant shifted than Turks by a bit.
What Turks lack in Near East/Neolithic they make up with Hindu-Kush (South Central Asian).

[Antimage]

Sincerely, i find the subject pretty interesting, but as you showed yourself to be an uneducated asshole in the other thread i'm so tired to discuss or post material that contradicts the material you've posted (as i did in the other thread).

yoU're afraid the discuss the subject because you know you're wrong? ?:icon_lol:

[gültekin]

I'm really tired of seeing posts like "Western Turks are assimilated Greeks and closer to Sicilians genetically" or "Western Turks are Balkanites etc". Let's resolve this once and for all.

Eurogenes Steppe k10 calculator
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb0GVyrf2ztR_QvoIYcmhWtsYv0p39avjqM-G3-6Xew/edit?pli=1#gid=1809893991

Here is the comparison of Western Turks, Cappadocian Turks, Greeks, Sicilians and South Italians.

Turkish_Balıkesir = Northwest Anatolian Turkish samples (Hodoğlugil & Mahley, 2012)
Turkish_Aydın = Southwest Anatolian Turkish samples (Hodoğlugil & Mahley, 2012)
Turkish_Cappadocia = East-Central Anatolian Turkish samples from historical Cappadocia region (Behar et al.)

Steppe = component based on Yamnaya samples
Hindu_Kush = ANE-related South Central Asian component



Near_Eastern
East_Asian
Siberian
Oceanian
WHG_UHG
Sub_Saharan
Hindu_Kush
Steppe
Amerindian
Southeast_Asian


Turkish_Aydın

43,45

6,62

6,17

0,33

8,23

0,47

17,32

16,17

0,76

0,44


Turkish_Balıkesir

41,63

6,44

6,05

0,64

9,93

0,22

16,98

16,57

0,50

1,01


Greek

51,80

0,23

0,41

0,37

20,03

0,14

7,41

19,03

0,34

0,22


Sicilian

54,70

0,29

0,30

0,31

19,21

1,80

9,71

13,04

0,11

0,53


South_Italian

57,70

0,18

0,24

0,35

16,62

1,12

10,88

12,21

0,44

0,26


Turkish_Cappadocia

46,73

2,90

3,20

0,42

5,08

0,20

22,74

17,38

0,58

0,75




for compare with mys :
41.60% Near_Eastern
6.24% East_Asian
4.11% Siberian
0.97% Oceanian
11.45% WHG-UHG
0.00% Sub-Saharan
17.65% Hindu_Kush
14.71% Steppe
1.06% Amerindian
2.20% Southeast_Asian
why i score extra more amerindian and southeast asian ?
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?170036-Post-your-Steppe-K10-results/page4

[Danishmend]

I'm not going to let you fill this thread with garbage. Turkish_Trabzon (Eastern Black Sea) samples are the ones that are outliers, not other Turkish regions. Overwhelming majority of Turkish population is concentrated in West and Central Anatolia, not in Eastern Black Sea. It's like using Pontic Greek outliers as a reference for average Greek. Turkish_Aydin is a hundred times closer to Turkish average than Turkish_Trabzon is. Here is the average of 67 ethnic Turks from all over tha Anatolia (individual samples from Turkish FTDNA project). MDLP K23b

http://i.hizliresim.com/vZ79Dr.jpg
http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/TURKISH_wm1.jpg

[Scholarios]

so this shows that Turks of this region are closely related to other Turks of neighbouring region most , and then next closest to Greeks and Sicilians.



I'm glad it's put to rest.

[Danishmend]

so this shows that Turks of this region are closely related to other Turks of neighbouring region most , and then next closest to Greeks and Sicilians.

I'm glad it's put to rest.
They are closer to Turkic Caucasus populations (Balkars and Kumyks) than to Greeks/Sicilians, plus the distance between Greeks and Western Turks (19,587151) is bigger than the distance between South Italians and Palestinians (18,963542).

[Imamudin]

They are closer to Turkic Caucasus populations (Balkars and Kumyks) than to Greeks/Sicilians, plus the distance between Greeks and Western Turks (19,587151) is bigger than the distance between South Italians and Palestinians (18,963542).

Turkish propaganda machine in action.

[Danishmend]

East Eurasian admixture doesn't peak in Aydın or Balıkesir, it peaks in Muğla (Southwest Turkey) and Giresun (East-Central Black Sea).


This is a Turk from Giresun (with 18% East Eurasian admixture), one of the most Central Asian admixed Turk I've ever seen on Turkish FTDNA project.

Dodecad k12b
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 34.06
2 Gedrosia 17.28
3 North_European 10.78
4 Atlantic_Med 10.47
5 East_Asian 9.18
6 Siberian 8.55
7 Southwest_Asian 8.38
8 South_Asian 1.30


Gedrosia - CHG K10
# Population Percent
1 CHG 35.69
2 Anatolian_Farmers 15.82
3 E_Asian 15.52
4 WHG 10.96
5 SW_Asian 10.92
6 EHG 6.46
7 S_Indian 3.20
8 Amerindian 1.24

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:

1 Turkish @ 10.676285
2 Azeri @ 15.171642
3 Kumyk @ 16.050533
4 Turkmen @ 16.118856
5 Tajik @ 16.352169
6 Uzbek_Afghan @ 17.833771
7 Adygei @ 18.110559
8 Turkmen_Afghan @ 18.554653
9 Tajik_Afghan @ 19.153833
10 Chechen @ 19.701227
11 Iranian @ 20.168293
12 Azeri_Dagestan @ 20.738377
13 Kurd_N @ 21.059706
14 Kurd_C @ 21.912727
15 Lezgin @ 22.502544
16 Kurd_E @ 23.118759
17 Armenian @ 23.260509
18 Georgian_Jew @ 23.334387
19 Hazara_Afghan @ 23.343536
20 Lebanese @ 23.940285


http://i.hizliresim.com/lEOMdp.png (http://hizliresim.com/lEOMdp)


East Eurasian admixture map based on FTDNA Turkish project (67 Turkish samples from all over the Anatolia)
http://i.hizliresim.com/OE5Gk4.png (http://hizliresim.com/OE5Gk4)

[Danishmend]

Turkish propaganda machine in action.
Just unstick already, do I give a fuck about Chechens (or whatever the fuck you are)? I don't even mention your kind. They appear closer to Kumyks and Balkars than to Greeks, but overall they are distant from both Caucasus and Greeks and are closer to Eastern Turks. This is a counter-propaganda topic backed by autosomal dna tests.

[Sikeliot]

They are closer to Turkic Caucasus populations (Balkars and Kumyks) than to Greeks/Sicilians, plus the distance between Greeks and Western Turks (19,587151) is bigger than the distance between South Italians and Palestinians (18,963542).

Tell this to everyone here who thinks Greeks and Turks are identical.

Anyway Greeks are closer to Turks than Greeks to Levantines, but they are not especially close to either.

[Danishmend]

Let's resolve the SteppK10 issue. i mentioned it before but i will say it again: Steppek10 was just an experiment/test run. Nobody knows what the components truly represent including the author Polako.
Steppe represents Yamnaya samples. Hindu-Kush is similar to previous Gedrosia/South Central Asian components from Dodecad etc.

Other calculators give more or less same results. Western Turks and Greeks are not identical, in fact they are quite different from each other. I can make a comparison using other calculators as well.

[Danishmend]

It seems you know more than the author. I asked him what those components truly represent and his answer was:




It's not that i don't believe Western Turks and Greeks are not identical but the calculator itself should be taken with caution.


It doesn't take a genious to figure out that Yamnaya samples were used as reference.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb0GVyrf2ztR_QvoIYcmhWtsYv0p39avjqM-G3-6Xew/edit?pli=1#gid=1809893991
http://i.hizliresim.com/1N39bb.png (http://hizliresim.com/1N39bb)




As for Hindu_Kush, it definitely correlates with previous Gedrosia/South Central Asian component.

[Pennywise]

Hindu_Kush shows similarities to Gedrosia indeed.

Yeah, it's based on Yamnaya but that's not the point. Tests based on analyses of ancient admixture events should never be used to estimate recent admixtures. K10 was an experiment looking at very specific issues, and not designed as an ancestry test.

You can also use other calculators for comparison if you want. Like he said, they give similar results too. Right now this argument is pointless.

[Danishmend]

Hindu_Kush shows similarities to Gedrosia indeed.

Yeah, it's based on Yamnaya but that's not the point. Tests based on analyses of ancient admixture events should never be used to estimate recent admixtures. K10 was an experiment looking at very specific issues, and not designed as an ancestry test.

So which calculator would you recommend me to use?

[Profileid]

I like that u made a table
A+ for formatting

[Pennywise]

It's not about the similarities and differences between Turks and Greeks but it's about the SteppeK10 specifically.

And I'm saying you are derailing the thread with this subject. It's not the point here, you can discuss it somewhere else.

[Danishmend]

Most calculators are better than SteppeK10 for comparisons. Use Eurogenes K13/K15.
The problem with these calculators is that their population averages spreadsheets don't contain Western Turkish samples (Turkish_Balıkesir and Turkish_Aydın), only Cappadocian Turkish samples (Behar et al.) are available, they are useless for this thread.

[Hudayar]

I've found a random Yörük's results, he only posted this though. I'm trying to contact him.
MDLP K23b:
1 Caucasian 31.18
2 South_Central_Asian 12.48
3 European_Early_Farmers 12.34
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.57
5 Near_East 8.56
6 Tungus-Altaic 5.98
7 North_African 3.65
8 South_East_Asian 3.46
9 Ancestral_Altaic 3.4
10 East_Siberian 2.86
11 Amerindian 2.09
12 Arctic 1.74
13 East_African 1.5
14 Paleo_Siberian 1.11
15 Archaic_African 0.61
16 Melano_Polynesian 0.47



his Amerindian dna is YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE and according to my estimates he's 17.25% mongoloid

[Teucer]

This is Catania vs Trapani, if I know the samples well. East Sicily = South Italy, more Levant shifted than Turks by a bit.

Why are Western Sicilians, who have more Levantine ancestry, closer to Greeks than Cypriots but for Eastern Sicilians, Cypriots are closer rather than to Western Sicilians?

[Sikeliot]

Why are Western Sicilians, who have more Levantine ancestry, closer to Greeks than Cypriots but for Eastern Sicilians, Cypriots are closer rather than to Western Sicilians?

"West Sicily" sample there is from a part of Trapani with more Italic, Greek, and Norman influence. When people speak of Levantine influence in western Sicily, it is much more Palermo, Agrigento, and Caltanissetta who display this most obviously, as well as a North African element.

Eastern Sicily can be divided into 2: northeast Sicily which shifts toward Cyprus, and southeast Sicily which is close to Cyclades and Peloponnese Greeks, and to Apulians.

[Gangrel]

I've found a random Yörük's results, he only posted this though. I'm trying to contact him.
MDLP K23b:
1 Caucasian 31.18
2 South_Central_Asian 12.48
3 European_Early_Farmers 12.34
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.57
5 Near_East 8.56
6 Tungus-Altaic 5.98
7 North_African 3.65
8 South_East_Asian 3.46
9 Ancestral_Altaic 3.4
10 East_Siberian 2.86
11 Amerindian 2.09
12 Arctic 1.74
13 East_African 1.5
14 Paleo_Siberian 1.11
15 Archaic_African 0.61
16 Melano_Polynesian 0.47



his Amerindian dna is YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE and according to my estimates he's 17.25% mongoloid

not that high for a yoruk tbh

[Hudayar]

not that high for a yoruk tbh

2% is even high for Turkics actually
it's usually around 0.1% and 1%

[Hadouken]

2% is even high for Turkics actually
it's usually around 0.1% and 1%

I score 1.75

[Gangrel]

2% is even high for Turkics actually
it's usually around 0.1% and 1%

was talking about his total mongoloid

[Gangrel]

I score 1.75

abi whats the best calc for calculating caucasus percentage

[Hudayar]

was talking about his total mongoloid

oh
you're right then.
but the amerindian component is very high for some reasons.

[Gangrel]

oh
you're right then.
but the amerindian component is very high for some reasons.

he spat out piece of sweetcorn when spitting into the tube and it registered as amerindian its just siberian noise

[Pahli]

was talking about his total mongoloid

17% is actually a lot, the average Mongoloid for Turkey is nowhere near that

[Gangrel]

17% is actually a lot, the average Mongoloid for Turkey is nowhere near that

yoruks are basically turkmen, he got similar to southwest turks

[Hadouken]

abi whats the best calc for calculating caucasus percentage

imo Puntdnal K15 and Puntdnal K12 modern

but not sure

[Pahli]

yoruks are basically turkmen, he got similar to southwest turks

Yeah I know, they are / were semi-nomadic right? But for them to stay genetically isolated is almost impossible xD

[Gangrel]

Yeah I know, they are / were semi-nomadic right? But for them to stay genetically isolated is almost impossible xD

other yoruk gedmatchs ive seen get higher than that and usually have turkmen as first match

[Hudayar]

17% is actually a lot, the average Mongoloid for Turkey is nowhere near that

average is around 10-15%
he's above average but not that atypical.

[Pahli]

other yoruk gedmatchs ive seen get higher than that and usually have turkmen as first match

20% Mong?

[Hudayar]

Yeah I know, they are / were semi-nomadic right? But for them to stay genetically isolated is almost impossible xD

here's a Yörük's pop mix
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.6% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 41.4% Turkmen_Afghan ( ) @ 2.09
2 55.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 44.3% Turkmen_Afghan ( ) @ 2.52
3 62% Cretan ( ) + 38% Turkmen_Afghan ( ) @ 2.94
4 62.2% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 37.8% Karakalpak ( ) @ 3.05
5 51.3% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) + 48.7% Greek_Islands ( ) @ 3.08
6 59.5% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 40.5% Uzbek ( ) @ 3.27
7 50.5% Italian_South ( ) + 49.5% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) @ 3.62
8 53.2% Greek ( ) + 46.8% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) @ 3.7
9 51.7% Greek_Athens ( ) + 48.3% Turkmen_Uzbekistan ( ) @ 3.71
10 56.7% Greek_Islands ( ) + 43.3% Uzbek ( )


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.6% Turkmen + 26.4% Sardinian @ 4.04
2 77.5% Nogai + 22.5% Sardinian @ 5.02
3 57.5% Turkmen + 42.5% Sicilian @ 5.03
4 61.4% Nogai + 38.6% Sephardic_Jew @ 5.36
5 56.5% Turkmen + 43.5% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 5.39
6 56.6% Turkmen + 43.4% Sephardic_Jew @ 5.4
7 61.5% Nogai + 38.5% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 5.64
8 62.5% Nogai + 37.5% Sicilian @ 5.73
9 62% Sephardic_Jew + 38% Hazara @ 5.85
10 60.8% Sephardic_Jew + 39.2% Uyghur @ 6.11

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.5% Turkmen + 42.5% Maltese @ 2.55
2 57.4% Turkmen + 42.6% Sicilian @ 2.86
3 51.3% Maltese + 48.7% Hazara_Afghan @ 3.95
4 55.2% Turkmen_Afghan + 44.8% Maltese @ 4.15
5 50.9% Cypriot + 49.1% Uzbek @ 4.19
6 52.6% Maltese + 47.4% Uzbek @ 4.26
7 57% Turkmen_Afghan + 43% Cypriot @ 4.3
8 51.4% Sicilian + 48.6% Hazara_Afghan @ 4.44
9 58.9% Turkmen + 41.1% Greek @ 4.7
10 61.3% Maltese + 38.7% Hazara @ 4.71

[Gangrel]

20% Mong?

got it wrong, meant nogai lol

ye probably higher than that, i cant remember one of the dna forums i saw a yoruk with like 28% or some shit

[Pahli]

average is around 10-15%
he's above average but not that atypical.

Eh? Isn't that an overstatement? I doubt the average Turk gets 10 - 15% Mong.

[Hudayar]

Eh? Isn't that an overstatement? I doubt the average Turk gets 10 - 15% Mong.
This source for example says the East Asian influence is 21.7%, but i believe it's the Maximum influnece
https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2164-15-963
http://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2164-15-963/MediaObjects/12864_2014_Article_6660_Fig2_HTML.jpg


Individual results
http://i.hizliresim.com/vEB25v.png

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2myu6u0.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/a4wmyx.jpg


Many Turks score above 10% mongoloid, however, below 10% is not something surprising or completely shocking. the average is broadly around 10-15%, minimum is 3% maximum is 22% or 25%. The mongoloid dna in Turk is unstable for some reasons. Not all Turks score the exact same mongoloid dna, hence i could be proven wrong. the average could be higher or lower, but according to my estimates the average is around 10% to 15%

[Babak]

This source for example says the East Asian influence is 21.7%, but i believe it's the Maximum influnece
https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2164-15-963
http://media.springernature.com/full/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1186%2F1471-2164-15-963/MediaObjects/12864_2014_Article_6660_Fig2_HTML.jpg


Individual results
http://i.hizliresim.com/vEB25v.png

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2myu6u0.jpg
http://oi57.tinypic.com/a4wmyx.jpg


Many Turks score above 10% mongoloid, however, below 10% is not something surprising or completely shocking. the average is broadly around 10-15%, minimum is 3% maximum is 22% or 25%. The mongoloid dna in Turk is unstable for some reasons. Not all Turks score the exact same mongoloid dna, hence i could be proven wrong. the average could be higher or lower, but according to my estimates the average is around 10% to 15%

Yea thats rather accurate

[Hadouken]

Average is around 7-10%

[Hudayar]

Average is around 7-10%

Depends on the place imo. Aydın and Balıkesir Turks have 14% mongoloid on average (according to OP) but as far as i know Kayseri Turks were around 5-10%. And Cappadocia Turks are 7.85% mongoloid according to OP
There should be a very large study on that mongoloid dna issue, at least 20.000 individuals should be tested. And i'd appreciate if someone uploaded all of their dnas to gedmatch and sent their kitnumbers to me :D

[Hadouken]

Depends on the place imo. Aydın and Balıkesir Turks have 14% mongoloid on average (according to OP) but as far as i know Kayseri Turks were around 5-10%.
There should be a very large study on that mongoloid dna issue, at least 20.000 individuals should be tested. And i'd appreciate if someone uploaded all of their dnas to gedmatch and sent their kitnumbers to me :D

I am on phone right now. I have kot nrs from places like aydin. We can analyse later when the walking dead ends I will be back :D

[Hadouken]

@Hudayar

Aydin turks have more mongoloid than average and in fact are among the most mongoloid turks in turkey along with people from giresun and I think mugla

yet they dont get much more than around 14% . therefore your statement that average for turkey turks is 10-15% is wrong by default . also do you know what 15% average would mean ? the term "average" is often misintepreted by people ...average of 15% would mean that there are as many turks who are 25% mongoloid as there are as many that are 5% ..this is impossible . even a decent amount turkmenistan turkmens score less than 25% lol (or at least not much more than 20-25% . I would need to check)

these kit numbers are supposedly from aydin

1.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 26.81
2 West_Asian 26.69
3 North_Atlantic 11.78
4 West_Med 9.92
5 Siberian 8.04
6 East_Asian 5.21
7 Red_Sea 4.53
8 Baltic 3.52
9 South_Asian 2.41
10 Oceanian 1.07
11 Amerindian 0.04


= 13.29 % mong

(oracle)


# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish 8.28
2 Azeri 12.02
3 Turkmen 14.53
4 Kurdish 17.59
5 Lebanese_Muslim 17.93
6 Armenian 17.99
7 Assyrian 18.14
8 Georgian_Jewish 18.27
9 Iranian 18.46
10 Kumyk 18.66
11 Syrian 18.88
12 Central_Greek 18.95
13 South_Italian 19.34
14 East_Sicilian 19.43
15 Italian_Abruzzo 19.65
16 Iranian_Jewish 19.78
17 Nogay 19.85
18 Cyprian 19.86
19 Kurdish_Jewish 20.03
20 Sephardic_Jewish 20.2


--

2.
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 27.77
2 East_Med 25.99
3 Siberian 11.61
4 West_Med 10.5
5 North_Atlantic 7.46
6 East_Asian 6.1
7 Baltic 5.16
8 Red_Sea 2.25
9 South_Asian 2.17
10 Amerindian 0.85
11 Northeast_African 0.08
12 Oceanian 0.06

= 18.56 . among highest I have seen so far

(oracle)


# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish 10.49
2 Turkmen 13
3 Azeri 13.38
4 Nogay 16.94
5 Kumyk 18.28
6 Kurdish 18.61
7 Armenian 19.21
8 Iranian 19.43
9 Georgian_Jewish 19.45
10 Assyrian 19.68
11 Balkar 19.98
12 Lebanese_Muslim 20.74
13 Kabardin 21.38
14 Syrian 21.66
15 Iranian_Jewish 21.71
16 Kurdish_Jewish 21.91
17 Central_Greek 22.16
18 Cyprian 22.22
19 Adygei 22.28
20 Ossetian 22.62


--

3.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 27.76
2 East_Med 25.93
3 Siberian 11.61
4 West_Med 10.53
5 North_Atlantic 7.55
6 East_Asian 6.13
7 Baltic 5.09
8 Red_Sea 2.25
9 South_Asian 2.19
10 Amerindian 0.84
11 Northeast_African 0.08
12 Oceanian 0.06


= 18.58 % . among highest I have seen so far

(oracle)


# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish 10.51
2 Turkmen 12.99
3 Azeri 13.41
4 Nogay 16.93
5 Kumyk 18.3
6 Kurdish 18.64
7 Armenian 19.24
8 Iranian 19.47
9 Georgian_Jewish 19.5
10 Assyrian 19.73
11 Balkar 19.99
12 Lebanese_Muslim 20.77
13 Kabardin 21.39
14 Syrian 21.69
15 Iranian_Jewish 21.76
16 Kurdish_Jewish 21.95
17 Central_Greek 22.15
18 Cyprian 22.25
19 Adygei 22.3
20 Ossetian 22.61


--

4.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 31.57
2 East_Med 23.66
3 West_Med 11.87
4 Siberian 9.91
5 North_Atlantic 7.62
6 Baltic 6.24
7 East_Asian 3.55
8 South_Asian 2.59
9 Red_Sea 1.93
10 Amerindian 0.53
11 Northeast_African 0.53


= 13.99%

(oracle)

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish 8.96
2 Azeri 11.45
3 Turkmen 12.53
4 Kumyk 14.19
5 Balkar 15.67
6 Kurdish 16.06
7 Nogay 16.21
8 Kabardin 17.07
9 Armenian 17.19
10 Iranian 17.42
11 Adygei 17.85
12 Georgian_Jewish 18.13
13 Ossetian 18.28
14 North_Ossetian 18.85
15 Assyrian 19.25
16 Georgian 20.9
17 Chechen 20.91
18 Lebanese_Muslim 21.43
19 Afghan_Tadjik 21.5
20 Lezgin 21.91

[Hadouken]

for comparison :

Turk Sivas

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 32.93
2 East_Med 27.62
3 West_Med 12.38
4 South_Asian 6.07
5 North_Atlantic 5.7
6 Siberian 4.74
7 Red_Sea 4.58
8 Baltic 3.35
9 East_Asian 2
10 Oceanian 0.58
11 Northeast_African 0.05

= 6,74 %


# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish 3.54
2 Azeri 5.89
3 Kurdish 10.03
4 Armenian 10.36
5 Iranian 11.45
6 Georgian_Jewish 11.49
7 Assyrian 12.6
8 Turkmen 14.87
9 Kumyk 15.07
10 Iranian_Jewish 15.38
11 Kurdish_Jewish 15.59
12 Lebanese_Muslim 16.18
13 Syrian 17.29
14 Balkar 17.86
15 Adygei 18.24
16 Georgian 18.62
17 Cyprian 18.89
18 Ossetian 19.13
19 Kabardin 19.33
20 Abhkasian 20.22


--

half mersin half kayseri turk

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 28.7
2 East_Med 27.49
3 West_Med 12.97
4 Baltic 8.69
5 Red_Sea 5.64
6 Siberian 5.24
7 East_Asian 3.32
8 North_Atlantic 2.81
9 South_Asian 1.66
10 Sub-Saharan 1.48
11 Oceanian 1.28
12 Amerindian 0.71


= 9,27%

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish 6.84
2 Azeri 10.48
3 Georgian_Jewish 13.47
4 Assyrian 14.35
5 Armenian 14.42
6 Kurdish 15.09
7 Iranian 15.6
8 Lebanese_Muslim 15.75
9 Kumyk 16.38
10 Syrian 16.51
11 Kurdish_Jewish 16.88
12 Iranian_Jewish 16.98
13 Turkmen 17.25
14 Cyprian 17.48
15 Balkar 19.37
16 Central_Greek 19.62
17 Adygei 20.13
18 East_Sicilian 20.24
19 Kabardin 20.34
20 South_Italian 20.6



Turk Trabzon

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 36.27
2 East_Med 32.19
3 West_Med 13.71
4 Red_Sea 4.53
5 North_Atlantic 4.42
6 South_Asian 2.91
7 Baltic 2.57
8 Siberian 1.6
9 East_Asian 1
10 Oceanian 0.55
11 Amerindian 0.25


= 2.85%



# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenian 4.28
2 Georgian_Jewish 6.8
3 Turkish 6.93
4 Azeri 8.51
5 Assyrian 8.59
6 Kurdish 9.34
7 Iranian 12.03
8 Kurdish_Jewish 12.36
9 Iranian_Jewish 12.79
10 Lebanese_Muslim 14.69
11 Syrian 16.65
12 Georgian 16.93
13 Kumyk 17.22
14 Cyprian 17.24
15 Abhkasian 18.3
16 Adygei 19.18
17 Balkar 19.86
18 Lebanese_Druze 19.97
19 Turkmen 20.44
20 Lebanese_Christian 20.46

[Hudayar]

@Hudayar

Aydin turks have more mongoloid than average and in fact are among the most mongoloid turks in turkey along with people from giresun and I think mugla

yet they dont get much more than around 14% . therefore your statement that average for turkey turks is 10-15% is wrong by default . also do you know what 15% average would mean ? the term "average" is often misintepreted by people ...average of 15% would mean that there are as many turks who are 25% mongoloid as there are as many that are 5% ..this is impossible . even a decent amount turkmenistan turkmens score less than 25% lol (or at least not much more than 20-25% . I would need to check)

that's not i actually meant. most Turks i saw were within the 10-15% mongoloid range. and this is actually backed by the pics that i posted plus one study. i said minimum is 3% and max is 21-25%. But not many Turks score that high/low mongoloid.

imo the exact average is somewhere between 8-12%. But since Mongoloid dna in Turks is unstable, we can't say anything for now until we test every single Turkish individual in Turkey. We can just "assume".

also do you know their gedmatch kit numbers? I can make threads about them, if you want to i can hide their kit numbers too.

[katniss]

turks look closer to "balkanites" than to Italians or Greeks. Only a small part of them have pure med. features, and those live near the western coasts.

You are trying to say that Turks look more European than Greeks?

[Fedora]

that's not i actually meant. most Turks i saw were within the 10-15% mongoloid range. and this is actually backed by the pics that i posted plus one study. i said minimum is 3% and max is 21-25%. But not many Turks score that high/low mongoloid.

imo the exact average is somewhere between 8-12%. But since Mongoloid dna in Turks is unstable, we can't say anything for now until we test every single Turkish individual in Turkey. We can just "assume".

also do you know their gedmatch kit numbers? I can make threads about them, if you want to i can hide their kit numbers too.
He, simdi izmir gibi yerlerde cogunlukla balkandan göc aldi simdide dogudan. izmirde yasayan herkesi test yapsan ortalama east eurasian dnasi en fazla 5% olur böyle.

[Hadouken]

aydin , giresun gibi yerler yeterince test edildi . yörük kit nr/sonuclar bile koyuldu kac defa

en yüksek east eurasian oralarda cikti ...13-18% filan araliginda (kisiye göre degisiyor) . daha yüksek rakam görmek istiyorsaniz jackie chani getirin türk vatandasi yapip test yaptirin aq

[Fedora]

aydin , giresun gibi yerler yeterince test edildi . yörük kit nr/sonuclar bile koyuldu kac defa

en yüksek east eurasian oralarda cikti ...13-18% filan araliginda (kisiye göre degisiyor) . daha yüksek rakam görmek istiyorsaniz jackie chani getirin türk vatandasi yapip test yaptirin aqSende ne kadar cikti? Türkler homogen değil şimdi bayburt gümüshaneyi test yapsan en fazla 0%-5% cikar diş görünüşe baktiğimizda. yada giersunun ilcesi olan sebinkarahisarda test yapsan 15% daha düşük olur

[Hadouken]

Sende ne kadar cikti? Türkler homogen değil şimdi bayburt gümüshaneyi test yapsan en fazla 0%-5% cikar diş görünüşe baktiğimizda. yada giersunun ilcesi olan sebinkarahisarda test yapsan 15% daha düşük olur

Gesendet von meinem SM-N7505 mit Tapatalk

bende calcden calce degisiyor . ortalama 3-4% filan

bazen 5-6% cikiyor ama nadir ve mdlp k23b de 6.5%

[Gangrel]

bende calcden calce degisiyor . ortalama 3-4% filan

bazen 5-6% cikiyor ama nadir ve mdlp k23b de 6.5%

Sende kesin turkluk vardir bro

[Hadouken]

Sende kesin turkluk vardir bro

30-35% filan ola bilir

[Fedora]

Sende kesin turkluk vardir broSende kaç cikiyor? normal kürtlerde ne kadar cikar? zaten phenotyüe olarak 15% sonra fark etmeye basliyor

[Gangrel]

Sende kaç cikiyor? normal kürtlerde ne kadar cikar? zaten phenotyüe olarak 15% sonra fark etmeye basliyor

I get 3-9% depending on calc

[Hadouken]

Sende kaç cikiyor? normal kürtlerde ne kadar cikar? zaten phenotyüe olarak 15% sonra fark etmeye basliyor

kürtlerde east eurasian genelde cok az yanilmiyorsam. 1% gibi . iranli bir kürdü gedmatchte run yaptim simdi 1%den az cikti