Are Pashtuns closer to North Indians or Kurds?

[MS85]

And the oracle? You're indeed a pure Kurd, no one is denying that.I'm a Kurmanji Ezdi Kurd, mostly native to SouthEastern Anatolia (Wan region, Northern Kurdistan) with paternal lineage from Shengal (Ezdixan/Northern Mesopotamia).

And West Asian Kurds are the DIRECT descedants of the West Asian ARYAN Medes. That makes me a 'pure' ARYAN .


https://i.postimg.cc/rsX7PPtj/ace-kurd.png

[Pahli]

Uniparental markers do not show any great kinship between the Tatars and the Eastern Slavs.

Pity the poor Russian / Tatar that doesn't acknowledge common science, most Steppe people from the pre-Turkic era carried Indo-Iranian names, can you explain that or did they just fall from the sky? There is even a Scythian inscription in North West Iran;

https://i.imgur.com/5hreQ2K.jpg

Doesn't sound Turkic to me :cry2

[lameduck]

I'm a Kurmanji Ezdi Kurd, mostly native to SouthEastern Anatolia (Wan region, Northern Kurdistan) with paternal lineage from Shengal (Ezdixan/Northern Mesopotamia).

And West Asian Kurds are the DIRECT descedants of the West Asian ARYAN Medes. That makes me a 'pure' ARYAN .


https://i.postimg.cc/rsX7PPtj/ace-kurd.png

can you share your muxed mode population sharing

[MS85]

Are you sure you did a proper Y-DNA test? I bet you're Z93 like user Mingle (Paki Pashtun).Yes, they double checked my Y-DNA. It is R1a* (L62+, L63+, SRY10831.2-, M17-) and it has nothing to do with Z93

I'm negative for SRY10831.2-, M17-, but positive for L62+, L63+.


It has been said that R1a* is originally from the Iranian Plateau.


http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2013/10/r1a-discovered-among-yezidi-kurd.html

[Leto]

I'm a Kurmanji Ezdi Kurd, mostly native to SouthEastern Anatolia (Wan region, Northern Kurdistan) with paternal lineage from Shengal (Ezdixan/Northern Mesopotamia).

And West Asian Kurds are the DIRECT descedants of the West Asian ARYAN Medes. That makes me a 'pure' ARYAN .

The vast majority of Kurds were resettled in Southern Kazakhstan by fucking Stalin. Currently around 45,000 over there. They're all Muslims but generically most likely like you.

[MS85]

can you share your muxed mode population sharing
https://i.postimg.cc/Ghf4NPmN/mixed-mode.jpg

[Pahli]

Compare to my results, you're more East med / Levant shifted

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 40.73
2 East_Med 29.48
3 South_Asian 9.19
4 West_Med 6.36
5 Red_Sea 5.33
6 North_Atlantic 4.88
7 Baltic 1.78
8 Northeast_African 0.74
9 Siberian 0.6
10 East_Asian 0.38
11 Amerindian 0.32
12 Sub-Saharan 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurdish 2.3
2 Iranian 5.28
3 Azeri 6.89
4 Armenian 9.54
5 Georgian_Jewish 11.05
6 Turkish 11.97
7 Assyrian 13.56
8 Georgian 14.5
9 Kumyk 15.17
10 Iranian_Jewish 15.64
11 Abhkasian 15.75
12 Kurdish_Jewish 16.27
13 Adygei 16.75
14 Turkmen 17.48
15 Ossetian 18
16 Balkar 18.59
17 North_Ossetian 19.26
18 Kabardin 19.84
19 Lezgin 20.39
20 Lebanese_Muslim 20.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.3% Kurdish + 3.7% Makrani @ 2.08
2 97.7% Kurdish + 2.3% Sindhi @ 2.09
3 97.1% Kurdish + 2.9% Brahui @ 2.1
4 98.5% Kurdish + 1.5% Velamas @ 2.11
5 98.6% Kurdish + 1.4% Kurumba @ 2.11
6 97.1% Kurdish + 2.9% Balochi @ 2.11
7 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Piramalai @ 2.12
8 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Dusadh @ 2.13
9 98.8% Kurdish + 1.2% Sakilli @ 2.13
10 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Kol @ 2.14
11 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Chenchu @ 2.14
12 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Uttar_Pradesh @ 2.14
13 98.4% Kurdish + 1.6% Gujarati @ 2.14
14 98.6% Kurdish + 1.4% Dharkar @ 2.14
15 98.9% Kurdish + 1.1% Chamar @ 2.15
16 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Kanjar @ 2.15
17 98.5% Kurdish + 1.5% Kshatriya @ 2.15
18 98.5% Kurdish + 1.5% Brahmin_UP @ 2.16
19 98.8% Kurdish + 1.2% North_Kannadi @ 2.16
20 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Bangladeshi @ 2.17

[Jana]

No, Pashtuns are just more Central Asian 'Scythian'.


Kurds are by far much more true Aryan Medes than Pashtuns. Kurds have much more Aryan Medes blood than any mixed populations in South Central Asia and India


Kurds are fully Caucasoid people and are mixture of the Copper Age people from the Iranian Plateau and Copper Age people from ancient Armenia.

It makes sense, since Iran and Armenia are neighboring territories and Aryan Kurdish Zagros Mountains are in between.

So you support Armenian Highland theory about Indo-European origins ?

[MS85]

Compare to my results, you're more East med / Levant shiftedI'm an Ezdi KURMANJI Kurd. Kurmanji is a Northwest Kurdish dialect and Kurmanji are the most Northwest shifted Kurds and lived close to the Armenian Plateau.

I'm sure that Kurmanji Kurds have a little bit more admixture of people from the Copper Age Armenia. Southeastern Kurds from Eastern Kurdistan have a little bit more Neolithic_Iranian Plateau farmers auDNA.


Kurmanji = 'Kur' + Manji = Sons of Medes/Magi

[lameduck]

Compare to my results, you're more East med / Levant shifted

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 40.73
2 East_Med 29.48
3 South_Asian 9.19
4 West_Med 6.36
5 Red_Sea 5.33
6 North_Atlantic 4.88
7 Baltic 1.78
8 Northeast_African 0.74
9 Siberian 0.6
10 East_Asian 0.38
11 Amerindian 0.32
12 Sub-Saharan 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurdish 2.3
2 Iranian 5.28
3 Azeri 6.89
4 Armenian 9.54
5 Georgian_Jewish 11.05
6 Turkish 11.97
7 Assyrian 13.56
8 Georgian 14.5
9 Kumyk 15.17
10 Iranian_Jewish 15.64
11 Abhkasian 15.75
12 Kurdish_Jewish 16.27
13 Adygei 16.75
14 Turkmen 17.48
15 Ossetian 18
16 Balkar 18.59
17 North_Ossetian 19.26
18 Kabardin 19.84
19 Lezgin 20.39
20 Lebanese_Muslim 20.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.3% Kurdish + 3.7% Makrani @ 2.08
2 97.7% Kurdish + 2.3% Sindhi @ 2.09
3 97.1% Kurdish + 2.9% Brahui @ 2.1
4 98.5% Kurdish + 1.5% Velamas @ 2.11
5 98.6% Kurdish + 1.4% Kurumba @ 2.11
6 97.1% Kurdish + 2.9% Balochi @ 2.11
7 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Piramalai @ 2.12
8 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Dusadh @ 2.13
9 98.8% Kurdish + 1.2% Sakilli @ 2.13
10 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Kol @ 2.14
11 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Chenchu @ 2.14
12 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Uttar_Pradesh @ 2.14
13 98.4% Kurdish + 1.6% Gujarati @ 2.14
14 98.6% Kurdish + 1.4% Dharkar @ 2.14
15 98.9% Kurdish + 1.1% Chamar @ 2.15
16 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Kanjar @ 2.15
17 98.5% Kurdish + 1.5% Kshatriya @ 2.15
18 98.5% Kurdish + 1.5% Brahmin_UP @ 2.16
19 98.8% Kurdish + 1.2% North_Kannadi @ 2.16
20 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Bangladeshi @ 2.17

you are slightly more indo iranic shifted

[Zoro]

Here are examples of 1 to 1 comparisons using Dstats from https://eurasiandna.com/hello-world-2/ which are much more reliable than using admixture calculator with 10 or 15 other components to muddy things up.

Kurds are more Eneolithic Steppe shifted than all samples that have a Z score less than 0 ( all the rows above Z score 0)

https://i.imgur.com/QFWAME5.jpg

[MS85]

So you support Armenian Highland theory about Indo-European origins ?I don't believe in anything. I'm just stating what current science is telling us. Current modern academia believes in a 'hybride' model.

https://i.postimg.cc/t46pRwh3/proto-Indo-Europeans.jpg


Yamnaya was just a second stage of PIEans. Yamnaya just Indo-Europeanised Europe with R1b.

Indo-European Hittites (ancient Indo-Europeans) in West Asia (Central Anatolia) predate Yamnaya. There are studies about that.

[Chelubey]

Incorrect comparison how?
Because the Scythians was not descendants of mix of present-day Tajiks and Lithuanians. We know this for certain. Do you understand this?

[Zoro]

If we use EHG as an indicator of steppe geneflow into W Asian then Kurds have more genetic similarity with EHG than all the rows above Z=0.

https://i.imgur.com/l1prMdS.jpg

[Leto]

Kurmanji Kurds were always native to SouthEastern Anatolia. Ancient Armenians already wrote about these Aryan Kurdish Kurmanji tribes from the very early times, nothing to do with the Medieval times.

Then why is there no historical Christian Kurdish community? All of modern Turkey plus the Levant and parts of Transcaucasia were part of Byzantium. Until the 630s there was no Islam and before 1071 there were no Oghuz Turks there.

[Chelubey]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?253057-Early-Indo-Iranians-on-Gedmatch

In case that tatar returns, he will be in for a shock; He is assimilated, being only 20 - 25% Turkic.



Most Iranian Central Asians and Pashtuns are R1a, same were the Proto-Iranians. Look up the statistics, Turkic people mixed with the Steppe Iranians paternally which resulted in a lot of Turkic individuals carrying on the haplogroup R1a. The native haplogroup of Proto-Turkic people was mostly N as we've seen from pre-Steppe mixed samples.

Do you know such a thing as phylogeny?
Show how Turkic subclades originate from Iranian subclades.

[Truth Preacher]

Closer to North Indians if by North Indians you mean Pakistanis and NW Indians.

Closer to Kurds if you include regions like Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Rajasthan as 'North India'.

I think Pashtuns esp eastern Pashtuns would be closer to Rajasthanis(Brahmin, Jaat etc) then Kurds genetically.

[Leto]

@Chelubey, show your autosomal and preferrably Y-DNA results and we'll talk about Genghis Khan then. ;) If you're so interested in DNA, paying $70 or so wouldn't be that difficult unless you're very poor.

[Chelubey]

Pity the poor Russian / Tatar that doesn't acknowledge common science, most Steppe people from the pre-Turkic era carried Indo-Iranian names, can you explain that or did they just fall from the sky? There is even a Scythian inscription in North West Iran;

What is it?

[MS85]

Then why is there no historical Christian Kurdish community? All of modern Turkey plus the Levant and parts of Transcaucasia were part of Byzantium. Until the 630s there was no Islam and before 1071 there were no Oghuz Turks there.Dude, native religion of Kurmanji Kurds is ARYAN, all Kurmanji Kurds were Ezdi/Magi/Median/Mitanni Mithra before many of them were Islamized.

Yezidism, Mithraism, Magianism are our native Aryan religions.


Ancient Roman emperors (elite) were Mithra before Rome became Christian. Ancient Aryan Mithra tempel in Rome:
https://i.postimg.cc/9XYNjhr3/mithra.jpg



Corduene already existed during the Roman era. Corduene was incorporated into the Roman Empire. Ancient Armenian referrence to 'Kurmanji Kurds' was 'Medes'. Armenians called 'Kurmanji' as 'Medes'.

[Zoro]

Using the Volga Scythian sample Kurds are more Scythian shifted than all the samples except Lithuanians. I think if they had used a more southern Scythian sample then Kurds would be more Scythian shifted than them too. The only thing is if it's a Tian Shan sample then Tajiks and Pashtuns maybe higher than Kurds. Sarmatians and Alans would be a different story. So it all depends which Scythian sample is being used.

https://i.imgur.com/pOxf06U.jpg

[MS85]

Just look what Garnik Asatrian who is an Armenian professor of Kurdish culture at Yerevan State University writes about the Kurds/Kurmanji. He wrote a lot in Russian!

[Chelubey]

@Chelubey, show your autosomal and preferrably Y-DNA results and we'll talk about Genghis Khan then. ;) If you're so interested in DNA, paying $70 or so wouldn't be that difficult unless you're very poor.

No, I'm not a fan of genetics and did not do tests.
Probably my genetic test will be usually Tatar.

[Leto]

No, I'm not a fan of genetics and did not do tests.
Probably my genetic test will be usually Tatar.
An acquaintance of mine who is half Tatar from Bashkiria (Sterlitamak district) and half Russian from Kuban did a test, I posted his results months ago

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 41.17
2 Caucasian 26.74
3 European_Early_Farmers 8.6
4 Ancestral_Altaic 7.13
5 South_Central_Asian 4.2
6 Tungus-Altaic 4.09
7 East_Siberian 3.93
8 Arctic 2.07
9 Austronesian 1.02
10 East_African 0.86
11 Paleo_Siberian 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moksha ( ) 4.61
2 Russian_Meshtchyora ( ) 5.4
3 Russian-Upper-Volga ( ) 5.5
4 Russian_North ( ) 5.79
5 Russian-West ( ) 5.81
6 Russian-North-West ( ) 6.56
7 Belarusian-East ( ) 7.15
8 Russian_South ( ) 7.23
9 Erzya ( ) 7.53
10 Mordovian ( ) 7.53
11 Balt ( ) 7.8
12 Belarusian_West ( ) 7.91
13 Sorb ( ) 8.18
14 Kashub ( ) 8.35
15 Ukrainian_East ( ) 8.61
16 Don_cossack ( ) 8.71
17 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 8.71
18 Belarusian_South ( ) 8.75
19 Russian_Vologda ( ) 8.75
20 Ukrainian_West ( ) 8.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.8% Tatar ( ) + 45.2% Croat_BH ( ) @ 3.43
2 76.2% Finnish-East ( ) + 23.8% Circassian ( ) @ 3.64
3 55.1% Tatar ( ) + 44.9% Bosnian ( ) @ 3.67
4 83.1% Russian-Upper-Volga ( ) + 16.9% Nogai ( ) @ 3.67
5 78.9% Erzya ( ) + 21.1% Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) @ 3.81
6 76.1% Finn_East ( ) + 23.9% Circassian ( ) @ 3.81
7 61% Ukrainian_West ( ) + 39% Tatar ( ) @ 3.81
8 56.3% Tatar ( ) + 43.7% Serb_BH ( ) @ 3.84
9 77.3% Finnish_FIN ( ) + 22.7% Circassian ( ) @ 3.85
10 56.1% Tatar ( ) + 43.9% Croat ( ) @ 3.9
11 84.4% Erzya ( ) + 15.6% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 3.93
12 77% Finnish-East ( ) + 23% North_Ossetian ( ) @ 3.94
13 68.6% Ukrainian_West ( ) + 31.4% Chuvashs ( ) @ 3.94
14 53.2% Croat_BH ( ) + 46.8% Chuvashs ( ) @ 3.97
15 76.9% Russian-Ural ( ) + 23.1% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 3.97
16 61.5% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 38.5% Tatar ( ) @ 3.97
17 65.3% Tatar-Kazan ( ) + 34.7% Croat_BH ( ) @ 4
18 78% Finnish-East ( ) + 22% Ossetian ( ) @ 4.01
19 78% Finnish_FIN ( ) + 22% North_Ossetian ( ) @ 4.01
20 62% Ukrainian_East ( ) + 38% Tatar ( ) @ 4.04

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar_ +50% Ukrainian_West_ @ 3.938421

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Kashub_ +25% Komi_ +25% Nogai_ @ 3.338476

Around 11-12% mongoloid (Ancestral Altaic is European weirdly enough).

[Chelubey]

An acquaintance of mine who is half Tatar from Bashkiria (Sterlitamak district) and half Russian from Kuban did a test, I posted his results months ago

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 41.17
2 Caucasian 26.74
3 European_Early_Farmers 8.6
4 Ancestral_Altaic 7.13
5 South_Central_Asian 4.2
6 Tungus-Altaic 4.09
7 East_Siberian 3.93
8 Arctic 2.07
9 Austronesian 1.02
10 East_African 0.86
11 Paleo_Siberian 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moksha ( ) 4.61
2 Russian_Meshtchyora ( ) 5.4
3 Russian-Upper-Volga ( ) 5.5
4 Russian_North ( ) 5.79
5 Russian-West ( ) 5.81
6 Russian-North-West ( ) 6.56
7 Belarusian-East ( ) 7.15
8 Russian_South ( ) 7.23
9 Erzya ( ) 7.53
10 Mordovian ( ) 7.53
11 Balt ( ) 7.8
12 Belarusian_West ( ) 7.91
13 Sorb ( ) 8.18
14 Kashub ( ) 8.35
15 Ukrainian_East ( ) 8.61
16 Don_cossack ( ) 8.71
17 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 8.71
18 Belarusian_South ( ) 8.75
19 Russian_Vologda ( ) 8.75
20 Ukrainian_West ( ) 8.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.8% Tatar ( ) + 45.2% Croat_BH ( ) @ 3.43
2 76.2% Finnish-East ( ) + 23.8% Circassian ( ) @ 3.64
3 55.1% Tatar ( ) + 44.9% Bosnian ( ) @ 3.67
4 83.1% Russian-Upper-Volga ( ) + 16.9% Nogai ( ) @ 3.67
5 78.9% Erzya ( ) + 21.1% Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( ) @ 3.81
6 76.1% Finn_East ( ) + 23.9% Circassian ( ) @ 3.81
7 61% Ukrainian_West ( ) + 39% Tatar ( ) @ 3.81
8 56.3% Tatar ( ) + 43.7% Serb_BH ( ) @ 3.84
9 77.3% Finnish_FIN ( ) + 22.7% Circassian ( ) @ 3.85
10 56.1% Tatar ( ) + 43.9% Croat ( ) @ 3.9
11 84.4% Erzya ( ) + 15.6% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 3.93
12 77% Finnish-East ( ) + 23% North_Ossetian ( ) @ 3.94
13 68.6% Ukrainian_West ( ) + 31.4% Chuvashs ( ) @ 3.94
14 53.2% Croat_BH ( ) + 46.8% Chuvashs ( ) @ 3.97
15 76.9% Russian-Ural ( ) + 23.1% Crimean_Tatar_Coast ( ) @ 3.97
16 61.5% Ukrainian_Center ( ) + 38.5% Tatar ( ) @ 3.97
17 65.3% Tatar-Kazan ( ) + 34.7% Croat_BH ( ) @ 4
18 78% Finnish-East ( ) + 22% Ossetian ( ) @ 4.01
19 78% Finnish_FIN ( ) + 22% North_Ossetian ( ) @ 4.01
20 62% Ukrainian_East ( ) + 38% Tatar ( ) @ 4.04

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Tatar_ +50% Ukrainian_West_ @ 3.938421

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Kashub_ +25% Komi_ +25% Nogai_ @ 3.338476

Around 11-12% mongoloid (Ancestral Altaic is European weirdly enough).

And what?

[Leto]

And what?
Just an example. :shrug:

[Leto]

I'm a Kurmanji Ezdi Kurd, mostly native to SouthEastern Anatolia (Wan region, Northern Kurdistan) with paternal lineage from Shengal (Ezdixan/Northern Mesopotamia).

And West Asian Kurds are the DIRECT descedants of the West Asian ARYAN Medes. That makes me a 'pure' ARYAN .

Hadouken's results and discussion. He is a former TA member, was banned in the winter.
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php?t=50710

[Chelubey]

Just an example. :shrug:
Maybe I'm not very sentimental for these genetics hobbies.

[Zoro]

If we use EHG as an indicator of steppe geneflow into W Asian then Kurds have more genetic similarity with EHG than all the rows above Z=0.

https://i.imgur.com/l1prMdS.jpg


Using QpAdm which is what papers use and is much more reliable than admixture, Kurds can be validly modeled as :

Chalcolithic Zagrosian herders + BMAC + Steppe (interesting that they were the only ones in the below table that had BMAC, probably from Medes or Parthians)

https://eurasiandna.com/impact-of-the-iron-age-saka-and-scythians-on-south-west-asian-demography/

https://i.imgur.com/W5VcODe.jpg

[Zoro]

Steppe for Kurds ranged from 22% to 35% and Iron Age Steppe nomads were the best candidates. The ones using straight proto Indo-European + Zagrosian herders failed because Sintashta on its own didn't have the required East Eurasian to make it work. Sintashta worked once an East Eurasian source such as Kipchak Turkics was added to the mix:

https://i.imgur.com/SfraWHV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/s722ikD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eZukAcZ.jpg

[Yaglakar]

By adna they aren't, they are late assimilatees of Tatar hordes fleeing Genghis Khan, while the natives they assimilated were Ugric speaking people. Not denying the pre-Turkic natives had some Asian as well, but it was boosted by the arrival of the Tatars.

Tatar was a Chinese collective exoethnonym for Steppe peoples who were living in the immediate vicinity irrespective of whether they were Turkic or Mongolic. Black Tatars is how Chinese called the people of Genghis Khan. There were also White Tatars and Wild Tatars. There was in fact an actual group of people who called themselves Tatar (Mongolic or Turkic). Because they were living close to borders of great wall, and were in immediate contact zone, the Chinese simply referred to all peoples living to the West and North as Tatars. Mongols vanquished Tatars, but the name Tatar stuck because of Chinese cultural clout. In short Tatars did not run anywhere, Tatars are Mongols and Mongols are Tatars.

[Zoro]

Steppe for Kurds ranged from 22% to 35% and Iron Age Steppe nomads were the best candidates. The ones using straight proto Indo-European + Zagrosian herders failed because Sintashta on its own didn't have the required East Eurasian to make it work. Sintashta worked once an East Eurasian source such as Kipchak Turkics was added to the mix:

https://i.imgur.com/SfraWHV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/s722ikD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eZukAcZ.jpg



This paragraph from https://eurasiandna.com/impact-of-the-iron-age-saka-and-scythians-on-south-west-asian-demography/ sheds some more lights on the events that took place after the Chalcolithic in Kurdistan;


Modern Kurds compared with their Zagrosian Chalcolithic Ancestors

One of the most important questions to answer is what demographic events have taken place in the Kurdistan area that differentiate modern Kurds from their Zagrosian Chalcolithic ancestors, which are here represented by the genomes from the Seh Gabi and Haji Firuz areas, which are within the Kurdistan region of Iran.

Here dstats of the form D [ Kurds, Haji-Firuz; Steppe, Mbuti ] can be used to compare various Kurdish samples from the Iraq/Iran area with Haji-Firuz for shared drift with steppe samples post since Haji-Firuz-Chl. Kurds C1-C3 are Kurmanji Kurd samples from northern Iraq, and Kurds F1-F7 are Feyli Kurd samples from around the Iraq/Iran border.

Here we show that the most important demographic events affecting Kurds in the Kurdistan region since the Chalcolithic involve introgression of smaller amounts of DNA from Middle to Late Bronze Age cultures related to Sintashta and Andronovo, followed by introgression of larger amounts of DNA related to Saka and Hun steppe nomads during the Iron Age, and related to Turkic Medieval populations such as Kipchaks and Karakhanids. It is the latter mechanism that explains the significant increase in East Eurasian admixture in present day Kurds when compared to their Iranian Chalcolithic forefathers.

This increase in East Eurasian admixture for present day Kurds is easily observed with dstats of the form D [Kurds, Haji-Firuz; Steppe, Mbuti ]. The results are shown in figures 2 – 4.

With regards to Steppe-MLBA, dstats indicate a dilution of this type of ancestry post Haji-Firuz, especially with some of the Feyli Kurd samples.

It seems that present day Kurds are quite a bit more East Eurasian shifted compared to their Chalcolithic Zagrosian ancestors;

https://i.imgur.com/2GDeSk6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wdMbwF0.jpg

[Leto]

Tatar was a Chinese collective exoethnonym for Steppe peoples who were living in the immediate vicinity irrespective of whether they were Turkic or Mongolic. Black Tatars is how Chinese called the people of Genghis Khan. There were also White Tatars and Wild Tatars. There was in fact an actual group of people who called themselves Tatar (Mongolic or Turkic). Because they were living close to borders of great wall, and were in immediate contact zone, the Chinese simply referred to all peoples living to the West and North as Tatars. Mongols vanquished Tatars, but the name Tatar stuck because of Chinese cultural clout. In short Tatars did not run anywhere, Tatars are Mongols and Mongols are Tatars.
But how close in your opinion is their relation to the modern groups that call themselves Tatars? In particular Volga and Crimean Tatars.

[Pahli]

Because the Scythians was not descendants of mix of present-day Tajiks and Lithuanians. We know this for certain. Do you understand this?

No but if you had to put up a modern day mixture for them, Lithuanian and Tajik is the closest thing you'd come to. No matter how hard you try, your attempts will fail.

If you don't believe in genetics, then don't try to argue, its been proven over and over that the R1 branches of the Iranian Steppe people were passed down to Proto-Turks, if you don't believe it, then live in your pan-turanist lies.

[Chelubey]

Just an example. :shrug:


I have never seen a comparison of Tatar genetics to genetics of the Bronze Age steppes - Sintashta, Andronovo and so on.
Can you show a results of that modeling?

[Chelubey]

No but if you had to put up a modern day mixture for them, Lithuanian and Tajik is the closest thing you'd come to. No matter how hard you try, your attempts will fail.

If you don't believe in genetics, then don't try to argue, its been proven over and over that the R1 branches of the Iranian Steppe people were passed down to Proto-Turks, if you don't believe it, then live in your pan-turanist lies.
Tatar woman 72.1% Mordovian + 27.9% Afghan_Hazara @ 4.2
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?191162-Are-Pashtuns-closer-to-North-Indians-or-Kurds/page25
Does it make any sense?

[Pahli]

Tatar woman 72.1% Mordovian + 27.9% Afghan_Hazara @ 4.2
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?191162-Are-Pashtuns-closer-to-North-Indians-or-Kurds/page25
Does it make any sense?

Tatars are more East Eurasian than West Scythian / Sarmatian samples, I can even find you Sarmatians with only 5% East Eurasian, no it doesn't make fucking sense you Tatar bimbo.

[Chelubey]

Tatars are more East Eurasian than West Scythian / Sarmatian samples, I can even find you Sarmatians with only 5% East Eurasian, no it doesn't make fucking sense you Tatar bimbo.

So what? A small number of Sarmatians? Caucasian Turks have 5% of Mongoloid genetics.
I still do not see your evidence.

[Pahli]

So what? A small number of Sarmatians? Caucasian Turks have 5% of Mongoloid genetics.
I still do not see your evidence.

Show me the evidence that Mongoloid = Turkic. A lot of people have Mongoloid, even I do, but none of us speak Turkic, pack your Tatar nationalist suitcase away. You are by the way linguistically more Turkic than genetically, the same goes for me, I'm linguistically Iranian, barely genetical. If you don't understand how assimilation works, then don't bother joining this thread with your childish agenda.


-

I guess we both can agree that Mongoloid admixture doesn't automatically make you a specific ethnicity as retard above is attempting to prove.

[Chelubey]

Show me the evidence that Mongoloid = Turkic. A lot of people have Mongoloid, even I do, but none of us speak Turkic, pack your Tatar nationalist suitcase away. You are by the way linguistically more Turkic than genetically, the same goes for me, I'm linguistically Iranian, barely genetical. If you don't understand how assimilation works, then don't bother joining this thread with your childish agenda.



I guess we both can agree that Mongoloid admixture doesn't automatically make you a specific ethnicity as retard above is attempting to prove.

Stop buhhurt, pan-iranic nationalist, and relax. I still don't see evidence of all the things you talked about here.

My proof:
https://elibrary.ru/item.asp?id=27277833


This article describes the study of ethnogenesis of the Turkic peoples according to the methods of population genetics. The author identifies three approaches to research: 1. The study of autosomal markers; 2. A study of polymorphism of Y-chromosome among modern populations; 3. Investigation of polymorphism of Y-chromosome among ancient populations. The article describes the results of genetic studies of such ancient peoples as the Hunnu, Donghu, Scythians, the population of Zhou realm (China), representatives of the Yamnaya, Andronovo, Karasuk, Taghar and other archaeological cultures. Interesting data on the pit culture coincides with the modern populations of the Burzyan and Naiman-Baganaly. Data on the Scythians, the Andronovo culture matches with modern tribes of the Kipchaks, Tabyn, Elan, and part of the Karachais. Data on the Karasuk culture matches with some of the Polish-Lithuanian Tatar families and modern Kyrgyz tribes of On and Sol Kanat (left and right wings). This article presents data on the testing of autosomal markers, namely the timing of the beginning of the genetic admixture of different populations, which marked the beginning of the population under study. The author presents the dates of “genetic admixture” of such peoples as the Turks, Balkars, Chuvashes, Iranian Azerbaijanis, Tatars, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Uighurs, Uzbeks, Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Kumyks, Nogais. He offers the examples of how the ethno-genetic studies are used in scientific purposes, more precisely in the process of nation building while writing the “national histories” of various nations. The author describes the situation of use of genetic data in the national construction of the Jews, Bashkirs, Hungarians, Russians. The article describes the major haplogroups occurring among various Turkic families: 1. Bashkir tribes: Kipchaks, Tabyn, Gaina, Kangls, Burzyan; 2. Kazakh tribes: Qara Kipchaks, Bultyn-Kipchaks, Argyn, Konyrat (Kungirats), Alshyn, Uysun, Naimans, Tabyn, Kerei, Shanyshkyly (Katagan); 3. Kyrgyz tribes relating to subdivisions of the On Kanat, Sol kanat, Ichkilik.


According to you,turkic people inherited their haplogroup from steppe people, but not the autosomes, Turkic inherited their autosomes from Finno-Ugric people- what are you talking about??

[MS85]

Stop buhhurt, pan-iranic nationalist, and relax. I still don't see evidence of all the things you talked about here.He is not Kurdish or even pan-Iranist. He reminds me of an Assyrian who used the same arguments and the same style against me years ago.

I have the sources to find his true identity, but he is not really important (harmless) for that.

[Leto]

He is not Kurdish or even pan-Iranist. He reminds me of an Assyrian who used the same arguments and the same style against me years ago.

I have the sources to find his true identity, but he is not really important (harmless) for that.
He is Kurdish, originally from Ilam, Western Iran. Just because he disagrees with you doesn't mean he can't be Kurdish

Pahli's Dodecad results:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 39.48
2 Gedrosia 26.58
3 Southwest_Asian 14.06
4 Atlantic_Med 7.76
5 North_European 5.53
6 South_Asian 3.24
7 Northwest_African 2.02
8 Siberian 0.59
9 East_Asian 0.53
10 East_African 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurd (Dodecad) 3.76
2 Iranian (Dodecad) 4.24
3 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 4.53
4 Iranians (Behar) 5.42
5 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 9.19
6 Turks (Behar) 13.78
7 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 14.79
8 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 15.05
9 Assyrian (Dodecad) 15.47
10 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 15.48
11 Turkish (Dodecad) 16.03
12 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 16.5
13 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 16.56
14 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 16.86
15 Armenian (Dodecad) 17.75
16 Lebanese (Behar) 18.2
17 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 19.43
18 Syrians (Behar) 20.05
19 Armenians (Behar) 21.3
20 Druze (HGDP) 21.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.9% Iranians (Behar) + 24.1% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2
2 82.9% Iranians (Behar) + 17.1% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.02
3 88.4% Iranian (Dodecad) + 11.6% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.1
4 73.2% Iranians (Behar) + 26.8% Turks (Behar) @ 2.12
5 90.6% Kurd (Dodecad) + 9.4% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.39
6 88.2% Iranian (Dodecad) + 11.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.39
7 83.9% Iranian (Dodecad) + 16.1% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.44
8 90.4% Kurd (Dodecad) + 9.6% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.5
9 86.5% Iranian (Dodecad) + 13.5% Jordanians (Behar) @ 2.51
10 88.4% Iranian (Dodecad) + 11.6% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 2.61
11 91.5% Kurd (Dodecad) + 8.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 2.63
12 91.8% Kurd (Dodecad) + 8.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.64
13 93.6% Iranian (Dodecad) + 6.4% Algerian (Dodecad) @ 2.64
14 91.3% Kurd (Dodecad) + 8.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.65
15 91.6% Kurd (Dodecad) + 8.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.65
16 85.6% Iranians (Behar) + 14.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.66
17 85.8% Iranian (Dodecad) + 14.2% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.67
18 65.1% Iranians (Behar) + 34.9% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.71
19 86.1% Iranians (Behar) + 13.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 2.73
20 94.7% Iranian (Dodecad) + 5.3% Moroccan (Dodecad) @ 2.76

[MS85]

He is Kurdish, originally from Ilam, Western Iran. Just because he disagrees with you doesn't mean he can't be KurdishThese results are from diifferent person. You can see it as a fake passport. People who use a fake passport are not the people who they pretend to be.

Or maybe even a Jewish provocateur. There are plenty of them here. Once a Jewish guy pretended to be ISIS/Daesh and encouraged for more violence from Muslims and killings of Ezdi Kurds.

[Leto]

These results are from diifferent person. You can see it as a fake passport. People who use a fake passport are not the people who they pretend to be.

Or maybe even a Jewish provocateur. There are plenty of them here. Once a Jewish guy pretended to be ISIS/Daesh and encouraged for more violence and killings of Ezdi Kurds.
Lol. He has been on TA since Jan, 2015 and you came in April 2019. Maybe you are a troll?

[Pahli]

Stop buhhurt, pan-iranic nationalist, and relax. I still don't see evidence of all the things you talked about here.

My proof:
https://elibrary.ru/item.asp?id=27277833

According to you,turkic people inherited their haplogroup from steppe people, but not the autosomes, Turkic inherited their autosomes from Finno-Ugric people- what are you talking about??

Its not my fault you're a retard that doesn't comprehend English, the fact is you're a mutt and your Turkic identity is barely 1000 years old xD

[MS85]

Lol. He has been on TA since Jan, 2015 and you came in April 2019. Maybe you are a troll?Like I said, some years ago I argued with somebody who pretended to be an Assyrian who used the same arguments as he.
This guy is active for some years and is speeding nothing but nonsense and lies about the Kurds.

[MS85]

This guy even tried to connect ancient Iranian Plateau farmers with the Assyrians. While everybody knows that original Assyrians are from the Levant and Arabia (Akkadians) and actually full of the so called Eastern Mediterranean and Semitic ancestry and very low of the so called Aryan Baloch/Gedrosia ancestry.

[Pahli]

Stop buhhurt, pan-iranic nationalist, and relax. I still don't see evidence of all the things you talked about here.

My proof:
https://elibrary.ru/item.asp?id=27277833

According to you,turkic people inherited their haplogroup from steppe people, but not the autosomes, Turkic inherited their autosomes from Finno-Ugric people- what are you talking about??

Its not my fault you're a retard that doesn't comprehend English, the fact is you're a mutt and your Turkic identity is barely 1000 years old xD


This guy even tried to connect ancient Iranian Plateau farmers with the Assyrians. While everybody knows that original Assyrians are from the Levant and Arabia (Akkadians) and actually full of the so called Eastern Mediterranean and Semitic ancestry and very low of the so called Aryan Baloch/Gedrosia ancestry.

I didn't you fucking lunatic, you're the stupid Kurd that circlejerks with an outdated agenda.

[Kyp]

This guy even tried to connect ancient Iranian Plateau farmers to connect with the Assyrians. While everybody knows that Assyrians are from the Levant and actually full of the so called Eastern Mediterranean plus Semitic ancestry and very low of Aryan Baloch/Gedrosia ancestry.

They have 1-4 % Gedrosian/Baloch less than Iranian Azeris. They are pretty close overall compared to other Levantine populations.

[Kyp]

delete

[Leto]

the fact is you're a mutt and your Turkic identity is barely 1000 years old xD
Well, not that I support that particular guy but the fact is Volga Bulgaria existed for around 400-500 years before the Mongol invasion and the Bulgars were a Turkic people that adopted Islam in the 10th century. I don't know why so many Tatar nationalists are obsessed with Genghis Khan and the Mongols, those shamanists literally destroyed the Muslim state of Bolgar.

[MS85]

They have 1-4 % Gedrosian/Baloch less than Iranian Azeris. They are pretty close overall compared to other Levantine populations.On Dodecad K12b I score more than 28% of Aryan Gedrosia. While Assyrians in general less than 18% and most of them are mixed in the first place. Original Assyrians were Semtic people from the Levant and the Semitic Akkadians who came from Arabia.

Also, don't forget that ancient Iranian Plateau farmers had more than 57% of Gedrosia auDNA. So, Assyrians have NOTHING to do with the Neo_Iranic farmers from Zagros.


my results

https://i.postimg.cc/zvdQgCTn/ME.jpg


M825671 I1293 Iran Mesolithic [9100-8600 BC] HV2 J2a-M410>CTS1085

https://i.postimg.cc/02FW12n2/farmers.jpg

[Leto]

I have never seen a comparison of Tatar genetics to genetics of the Bronze Age steppes - Sintashta, Andronovo and so on.
Can you show a results of that modeling?
I cannot provide you with that, sorry.

[MS85]

Ancient Neo_Iranic farmer from Zagros of 11000 (eleven thousands!) years ago has even more of the so called 'North_European' ancestry than I do. And people still claim that Steppes ancestry in Kurds is from the recent times, lol.

[Kyp]

Ancient Neo_Iranic farmer from Zagros of 11000 (eleven thousands!) years ago has even more of the so called 'North_European' ancestry than I do. And people still claim that Steppes ancestry in Kurds is from the recent times, lol.

surprising indeed. Nordid/Bmac hybridisation theory is still what I believe tho.

[MS85]

surprising indeed. Nordid/Bmac hybridisation theory is still what I believe tho.My man, we are free to believe whatever we want. I'm just providing you folks with scientific data and facts!

The 'theory' you think is right works according to me only for eastern Iranian Scythian invasion of India around 1500BC.
Proto-East Iranian BMAC was for more than 85% native Iranian.

Steppes related ancestry in Kurdistan predate any Yamnaya by thousands of years. We have already data from the ancient Armenian and Iranian plateau and it is much more likely that Steppes related ancestry is very ancient and just native to Kurdistan for thousands of years.

Until people can PROVE me a better alternative, I would rather believe my own intuition/observation and knowledge.

[Kyp]

My man, we are free to believe whatever we want. I'm just providing you folks with scientific data and facts!

The 'theory' you think is right works according to me only for eastern Iranian Scythian invasion of India around 1500BC.
Proto-East Iranian BMAC was for more than 85% native Iranian.

Steppes related ancestry in Kurdistan predate any Yamnaya by thousands of years. We have already data from the ancient Armenian and Iranian plateau and it is much more likely that Steppes related ancestry is very ancient and just native to Kurdistan for thousands of years.

Until people can PROVE me a better alternative, I would rather believe my own intuition/observation and knowledge.

Then how do explain Turkmenistan Iron Age being around 53% Steppe related?

[MS85]

Then how do explain Turkmenistan Iron Age being around 53% Steppe related?
My man, which one is Turkmenistan Iron Age?
https://i.postimg.cc/W3KSrg8Z/BMAC.png


Iron Age in West Asia = 1200 - 550 BC .

There were already West Iranic people in Kurdistan BEFORE 1500 BC. Think of the Kassites/Mitanni and even before the Guti Sumerians from around 2500 BC. Mitanni already had an ARYAN kingdom BEFORE 1500 BC.

Iron Age is very, very recent time. By the Bronze/Iron Age there was already a division between West and East Iranians.

Like I said, East Iranians (Saka) are very mixed people. Those people are a product of ancient proto-East Iranian BMAC and the Mongoloid Steppes people. Modern day East Iranians are maybe even less than 50% BMAC. So were their ancestors who mixed with the Mongoloid people in the Steppes and Mongoloid/Dravidian Southeast Asia (AASI).

[Chelubey]

Ancient Neo_Iranic farmer from Zagros of 11000 (eleven thousands!) years ago has even more of the so called 'North_European' ancestry than I do. And people still claim that Steppes ancestry in Kurds is from the recent times, lol.

Where can I read about it? It is very interesting?

[MS85]

Where can I read about it? It is very interesting?This is him: Iran Mesolithic (9100-8600 BC)

mtDNA: HV2
Y-DNA:J2a-M410>CTS1085

His Gedmatch kitnumber is: M825671
His sample number: I1293

I have got this from here, it is in Russian: http://forum.molgen.org/index.php?topic=8462.30

[MS85]

Where can I read about it? It is very interesting?You can also find more info about him here: https://j2-m172.info/2016/06/first-ancient-j2-from-iran-mesolithic-copper-age-and-levant-bronze-age-lazaridis-et-al-first-farmers/

[MS85]

My man, which one is Turkmenistan Iron Age?
https://i.postimg.cc/W3KSrg8Z/BMAC.png


Iron Age in West Asia = 1200 - 550 BC .

There were already West Iranic people in Kurdistan BEFORE 1500 BC. Think of Kassites/Mitanni ad even before the Guti Sumerians from around 2500 BC. Mitanni already had an ARYAN kingdom BEFORE 1500 BC.

Iron Age is very, very recent time. By Iron Age there was already a division between West and East Iranians.

Like I said, East Iranians (Saka) are very mixed people. Those people are a product of ancient proto-East Iranian BMAC and the Mongoloid Steppes people. Modern day East Iranians maybe even less than 50% BMAC. So were their ancestors who mixed with the Mongoloid people in the Steppes and Mongoloid/Dravidian Southeast Asia (AASI).
Guti were maybe the first Aryans in Kurdistan who spoke a Northwest Iranian dialect and they had already an Aryan kingdom in Kurdistan by around 2250 BC. Guti were from the BRONZE age, that PREDATE the Iron Age of the Scythian invasion of India that occurred around 1500 BC.

[Pahli]

Well, not that I support that particular guy but the fact is Volga Bulgaria existed for around 400-500 years before the Mongol invasion and the Bulgars were a Turkic people that adopted Islam in the 10th century. I don't know why so many Tatar nationalists are obsessed with Genghis Khan and the Mongols, those shamanists literally destroyed the Muslim state of Bolgar.

Volgar Bulgar language is related to Chuvash people, not Tatars. Besides, The Mongols destroyed many people, Turkic, Iranian, Slavic, Arabs, I think they killed more Chinese than any of the other ethnicities combined.

[Leto]

Volgar Bulgar language is related to Chuvash people, not Tatars.
They most likely adopted a Kipchak language in the 13-14th centuries. But the genetic core remained pre-Mongol. Most invaders in Russia and Eastern Europe were Turkic speakers, not proper Mongols. It is estimated that shortly before the rise of Genghis Khan there were only 1.5 to 2 million Mongols in Asia (obviously half of them were women + children and the elderly). Not many. 1 million Mongol men would not have made it alone (from China to Iraq)

[MS85]

People are talking shit and absolute trash when they say that Aryans came into Kurdistan from the Steppes. First think I ask them is: WHEN? But they can't give me proper answers at all. And then I say to those retards that Steppes related ancestry was already present in Kurdistan BEFORE the Copper Age and up to the Neolithic era and that it is just native to Kurdistan.

Because Aryans (West Iranians) already lived and had kingdoms in Kurdistan BEFORE the Iron Age. And East Iranian BMAC during the Copper Age was for more than 85% fully Iranic. So, about what kind of migration those morons are talking about?

Also, we have got ancient DNA from the ancient Hittites and the proto-Hellenic Myceneans and none of them are related to the Steppes.

[MS85]

Kurds are roughly 50% Neolithic Anatolian farmers and 50% Neolithic Iranian Plateau farmers. I do theorize that Aryan (proto-Indo Iranic with native West Asian ERGATIVITY) was born when those two (2) groups mixed with each other.

With this theory Ubaid and Samarra Northern Mesopotamia Sumerians were ARYAN people and similar to Kurds

[Chelubey]

Well, not that I support that particular guy but the fact is Volga Bulgaria existed for around 400-500 years before the Mongol invasion and the Bulgars were a Turkic people that adopted Islam in the 10th century. I don't know why so many Tatar nationalists are obsessed with Genghis Khan and the Mongols, those shamanists literally destroyed the Muslim state of Bolgar.

I know the secret of it. I would take a hint. Part of the Tatars is not related to the Bulgars. They began to dominate among the Tatars only after the fall of the Kazan Khanate. They know this, so they prefer to keep their descent from Genghis Khan.

[Kyp]

People are talking shit and absolute trash when they say that Aryans came into Kurdistan from the Steppes. First think I ask them is: WHEN? But they can't give me proper answers at all. And then I say to those retards that Steppes related ancestry was already present in Kurdistan BEFORE the Copper Age and up to the Neolithic era and that it is just native to Kurdistan.

Because Aryans (West Iranians) already lived and had kingdoms in Kurdistan BEFORE the Iron Age. And East Iranian BMAC during the Copper Age was for more than 85% fully Iranic. So, about what kind of migration those morons are talking about?

Also, we have got ancient DNA from the ancient Hittites and the proto-Hellenic Myceneans and none of them are related to the Steppes.

The language came from the steppe. That doesn't mean nordic steppe people came to Western Iran. I think no one believes this. I do believe Aryanism and Aryan identity came from Northeast by eastern iranians.

Here are my fathers results:

1 Caucasus 37.67
2 Gedrosia 23.5
3 North_European 10.58
4 Southwest_Asian 7.74
5 Atlantic_Med 6.17
6 South_Asian 5.4
7 East_Asian 4.34
8 Siberian 3.11
9 Northwest_African 1.21
10 Southeast_Asian 0.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranian (Dodecad) 8.13
2 Kurd (Dodecad) 9.38
3 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 9.98
4 Iranians (Behar) 10.61
5 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 11.69
6 Turks (Behar) 12.35
7 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 13.72
8 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 14.09
9 Turkish (Dodecad) 14.47
10 Lezgins (Behar) 18.79
11 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 18.98
12 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 19.12
13 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 19.61
14 Assyrian (Dodecad) 19.9
15 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 20.16
16 Armenian (Dodecad) 20.52
17 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 20.78
18 Lebanese (Behar) 21.05
19 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 21.48
20 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 21.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.2% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) + 45.8% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.03
2 74.7% Turks (Behar) + 25.3% Pathan (HGDP) @ 3.03
3 53.1% Armenian (Dodecad) + 46.9% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.08
4 55.1% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 44.9% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.27
5 76.4% Turks (Behar) + 23.6% Burusho (HGDP) @ 3.55
6 54.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 45.1% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.73
7 78.8% Turks (Behar) + 21.2% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 3.89
8 68.3% Iranians (Behar) + 31.7% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 3.95
9 79.9% Turks (Behar) + 20.1% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 3.98
10 53.9% Assyrian (Dodecad) + 46.1% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 4
11 75.5% Iranian (Dodecad) + 24.5% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 4.32
12 50.4% Armenians (Behar) + 49.6% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 4.33
13 63.9% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 36.1% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 4.53
14 63.7% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 36.3% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 4.58
15 65.1% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 34.9% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 4.62
16 63.2% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 36.8% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 4.63
17 90.1% Iranian (Dodecad) + 9.9% Russian_B (Behar) @ 4.71
18 72% Turkish (Dodecad) + 28% Pathan (HGDP) @ 4.72
19 89.5% Iranian (Dodecad) + 10.5% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 4.77
20 90% Iranian (Dodecad) + 10% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 4.8

[MS85]

The language came from the steppe. That doesn't mean nordic steppe people came to Western Iran. I think no one believes this. I do believe Aryanism and Aryan identity came from Northeast by eastern iranians.
There is no ergativity in the Steppes. While proto-Indo-Iranian had ergative construction. Proto-Indo-Iranian was West Asian by nature due to ergativity.

The Medes and Persians were Aryans and they were West Iranian people.

[Pahli]

There is no ergativity in the Steppes. While proto-Indo-Iranian had ergative construction. Proto-Indo-Iranian was West Asian by nature due to ergativity.

The Medes and Persians were Aryans and they were West Iranian people.

What a bunch of bullshit, Old Persian, Avestan and Median were Synthetic languages, similar to modern day Balto-Slavic languages before they evolved into their respective Middle Iranian era (Middle Persian, etc)

I'll give you links to old Persian and Avestan texts (latinized) and you won't understand much of them, given that these languages have evolved into our modern day dialects, most of them have lost their cases and inflictions, Persian doesn't even have genders anymore.

[MS85]

What a bunch of bullshit, Old Persian, Avestan and Median were Synthetic languages, similar to modern day Balto-Slavic languages before they evolved into their respective Middle Iranian era (Middle Persian, etc)

I'll give you links to old Persian and Avestan texts (latinized) and you won't understand much of them, given that these languages have evolved into our modern day dialects, most of them have lost their cases and inflictions, Persian doesn't even have genders anymore.Modern West Iranian languages evolved in West Asia, that's for sure. West Iranian was NEVER spoken in Central Asia.

Modern Persian is not ergative language but, Middle Persian was still an ergative language. You can loose the ergativity over time, but you can never regain it anymore. That is my whole point!

There was ergativity in Sanskrit and in the ancient Avestan. There is still ergativity in Kurdish and a lot modern Indic languages.

https://www.academia.edu/939047/On_the_Origin_of_the_Ergative_Construction_in_Iran ian_Evidence_from_Avestan


Iranic langauges are closer to the Armenian and Greek than to Balto-Slavic languages. From GRAECO-ARYAN connection. The only similarity is that Indo-Iranian and Balto-Slavic are called 'satem' nonsense. But it is saying nothing at all.

https://i.postimg.cc/9QkvCgt7/7c5b13cf92a481250610a0b4000189a7.jpg

[MS85]

An Interpretation of Split Ergativity in Indo-Iranian Languages

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233683114_An_Interpretation_of_Split_Ergativity_in _Indo-Iranian_Languages


On the Origin of the Ergative Construction in Iranian: Evidence from Avestan

https://www.academia.edu/939047/On_the_Origin_of_the_Ergative_Construction_in_Iran ian_Evidence_from_Avestan


The origin of the Indo-Iranian ergative construction

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40848796?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


Ergativity in Iranian

https://www.academia.edu/15321950/Ergativity_in_Iranian


Ergativity in Indo-Aryan

https://www.ling.uni-konstanz.de/typo3temp/secure_downloads/82196/0/6fdd288ee18f859e78c57e79e16fca8a2d788a60/Ergativity_in_Indo-Aryan.htm


An Interpretation of Split Ergativity in Indo-Iranian Languages

https://benjamins.com/catalog/dia.6.2.03bub


Ergative and Pre-ergative Patterns in Indo-Aryan as Predications of Localization.

https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00549874/document


etc. etc.

[Leto]

Here are my fathers results:

1 Caucasus 37.67
2 Gedrosia 23.5
3 North_European 10.58
4 Southwest_Asian 7.74
5 Atlantic_Med 6.17
6 South_Asian 5.4
7 East_Asian 4.34
8 Siberian 3.11
9 Northwest_African 1.21
10 Southeast_Asian 0.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranian (Dodecad) 8.13
2 Kurd (Dodecad) 9.38
3 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 9.98
4 Iranians (Behar) 10.61
5 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 11.69
6 Turks (Behar) 12.35
7 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 13.72
8 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 14.09
9 Turkish (Dodecad) 14.47
10 Lezgins (Behar) 18.79
11 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 18.98
12 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 19.12
13 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 19.61
14 Assyrian (Dodecad) 19.9
15 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 20.16
16 Armenian (Dodecad) 20.52
17 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 20.78
18 Lebanese (Behar) 21.05
19 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 21.48
20 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 21.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.2% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) + 45.8% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.03
2 74.7% Turks (Behar) + 25.3% Pathan (HGDP) @ 3.03
3 53.1% Armenian (Dodecad) + 46.9% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.08
4 55.1% Georgia_Jews (Behar) + 44.9% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.27
5 76.4% Turks (Behar) + 23.6% Burusho (HGDP) @ 3.55
6 54.9% Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) + 45.1% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 3.73
7 78.8% Turks (Behar) + 21.2% Jatt (Dodecad) @ 3.89
8 68.3% Iranians (Behar) + 31.7% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 3.95
9 79.9% Turks (Behar) + 20.1% Sindhi (HGDP) @ 3.98
10 53.9% Assyrian (Dodecad) + 46.1% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 4
11 75.5% Iranian (Dodecad) + 24.5% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 4.32
12 50.4% Armenians (Behar) + 49.6% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 4.33
13 63.9% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 36.1% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 4.53
14 63.7% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) + 36.3% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 4.58
15 65.1% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 34.9% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 4.62
16 63.2% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) + 36.8% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 4.63
17 90.1% Iranian (Dodecad) + 9.9% Russian_B (Behar) @ 4.71
18 72% Turkish (Dodecad) + 28% Pathan (HGDP) @ 4.72
19 89.5% Iranian (Dodecad) + 10.5% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 4.77
20 90% Iranian (Dodecad) + 10% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 4.8
Your father's European percentage might be inflated by Oghuz Turkic ancestry, Kurds are not 7-8% East Eurasian as your father. See the Anatolian Turks and Armenians/Assyrians for example - the latter have little to no Northern European while Turks can be as much as 15% (excluding Balkan Turks).

[Pahli]

Umm, Old Persian and Avestan were Synthetic languages, I repeat again, Synthetic, their grammatical structure, sentencing were way different than it is now for modern Kurdish and Persian, why are we even arguing this?

https://i.imgur.com/dNnCABA.jpg

https://www.academia.edu/37264419/Persian_Language_Ancient_Era_-_Avestan_Language

[Pahli]

- double post -

[MS85]

Umm, Old Persian and Avestan were Synthetic languages, I repeat again, Synthetic, their grammatical structure, sentencing were way different than it is now for modern Kurdish and Persian, why are we even arguing this?Dude, morphology of words has nothing to do with the ancient grammar. It is just how you do put words together, lol. Nothing special about it. Many languages (like Dutch) do have it and it is not really specific to any language/region. Morphology is not really related in any region. It can occur everywhere. Kurdish is very close to the ancient Avestan. Kurdish has still got ergativity left from ancient proto-Indo-Iranian while Persian lost it in the more recent times.

I was talking about more deep fundamental grammar like ERGATIVITY! Ergativity doesn't exist in the Steppes either in Balto-Slavic or in Mongoloid/Altaic/Turkic/Finno-Ugric languages

Ergativity is native to West Asia. Proto-Indo-Iranian was an ergative language and therefore it was by nature native to West Asia.

[Pahli]

Dude, morphology of words has nothing to do with the ancient grammar. It is just how you do put words together, lol. Nothing special about it. Many languages (like Dutch) do have it and it is not really specific to any langiage/region

Morphology is not really related in any region. It can occur everywhere. Kurdish is very close to the ancient Avestan. Kurds has still got ergativity from proto-Indo-Iranian while Persian lost it in the more recent times.


I was talking about more deep fundamental grammar like ERGATIVITY! Ergativity doesn't exist in the Steppes in Balto/Slavic and Mongoloid/Altaic/Turkic/Finno-Ugric languages

Ergativity is native to West Asia. Proto-Indo-Iranian was an ergative language and therefore it was by nature native to West Asia.

Are you fucking kidding me? Kurdish is nothing alike Avestan, Avestan grammar is too complex for a Turd like you to comprehend, its more similar to languages like Lithuanian and Russian in terms of grammar, not fucking Kurdish. Proto-Indo-Iranian was in the Steppes / Northern Central Asia, nowhere near West Asia you opium addict.

https://i.imgur.com/Jt3WKcg.jpg

They don't even sound alike and I speak Kurdish, I can confirm this. The only similarities are some simple words that Kurdish has derived from Avestan but the list isn't very long at all.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Kurdish_terms_derived_from_Proto-Iranian

53 recorded words, there is probably some more but still not a considerable amount. Imagine there's thousands of words in Kurdish, it only makes out a fraction of the vocabulary.

[Leto]

Both Persian and Kurdish are undoubtedly Indo-European languages, no reason to debate it.

[MS85]

Are you fucking kidding me? Kurdish is nothing alike Avestan, Avestan grammar is too complex for a Turd like you to comprehend, its more similar to languages like Lithuanian and Russian in terms of grammar, not fucking Kurdish. Proto-Indo-Iranian was in the Steppes / Northern Central Asia, nowhere near West Asia you opium addict.Never heard such a retard remark!

Avestan was an ERGATIVE language. Avestan was actually proto-Eastern Iranian. It had NOTHING to do with Balto-Slavic!


Indo-Iranian (like ancient Avestan and Sanskrit) are even much closer to Greek and Armenians (from Graeco-Aryan connection) than to Balto-Slavic!


Of all Kurdish dialects Gorani DIALECT of Kurdish is very, very close to Avestan language. You are IGNORANT as hell. You must be a real Assyrian, very ignorant about Kurdish history and Kurdish language!

[Pahli]

Both Persian and Kurdish are undoubtedly Indo-European languages, no reason to debate it.

That's not the point, the moron is claiming modern Kurdish (which has lost many of its Indo-European linguistic features that were in Proto-Iranian, Avestan and Old Persian) as "pure Aryan language", my ass.

He is circle jerking and its only about "Kurds", "Kurdish" ... How can you have a normal discussion with an obsessive narcissist?

[MS85]

What kind of a retard moron believes that East Iranian Avestan is closer to Balto-Slavic than to Kurdish, especially Gorani. You must be a troll big time.

Avestan is even closer to Armenian than to Balto-Slavic, lol.


Distance between Kuridsh and Avestan is 55,6

https://i.postimg.cc/8zLRwtPS/kud.png
http://elinguistics.net/


Distance between Russian and Avestan is 61.3

https://i.postimg.cc/KjdTDg6j/russian.jpg
http://elinguistics.net/


Avestan is CLOSER to Kurdish (55,6) than to Russian (61,3), period. This is a scientific FACT!

[MS85]

Both Persian and Kurdish are undoubtedly Indo-European languages, no reason to debate it.Kurdish is UBER Aryan/Iranic. The PUREST Aryan language on this planet!

[Leto]

Kurdish is UBER Aryan/Iranic. The PUREST Aryan language on this planet!
Dude, I'd consider having you banned for incessant trolling and provocative behavior.

[Pahli]

Dude, I'd consider having you banned for incessant trolling and provocative behavior.

I think he is a troll too, nobody can be this retarded.

[MS85]

The distance between Latvian and Avestan is even BIGGER (64,7)

https://i.postimg.cc/cHf6G52x/latv.jpg
http://elinguistics.net/Compare_Languages.aspx?Language1=Latvian&Language2=Avestan&Order=Calc

[MS85]

Dude, I'd consider having you banned for incessant trolling and provocative behavior.My man, tell me a language which is more Aryan/Iranic than Kurdish?

Vedic languages are mixed with Dravidian. Kurdish is much more 'pure' than Persian. Also Eastern Iranian languages are very mixed. That makes Kurdish the purest modern Aryan language to date.

[Kyp]

Your father's European percentage might be inflated by Oghuz Turkic ancestry, Kurds are not 7-8% East Eurasian as your father. See the Anatolian Turks and Armenians/Assyrians for example - the latter have little to no Northern European while Turks can be as much as 15% (excluding Balkan Turks).

is there a good calculator for steppe admixture?

[Leto]

is there a good calculator for steppe admixture?
G25 would be the best, I think.

[MS85]

is there a good calculator for steppe admixture?Why? because I do counter your lies about Kurdish? I have given you evidence that Avestan is closer to Kurdish than to Balto-Slavic (like Latvian and Russian).

While you provide me zero evidence and make empty assumptions and lie about Kurdish/Kurds.

[Pahli]

You can't use fucking e-linguistics as an example of similarities, its largely based on age, go compare Old Persian with Avestan their distance half as much as Kurdish, "Aryan" my ass.

Can we get his fucking retard banned?

[MS85]

You can't use fucking e-linguistics as an example of similarities, its largely based on age, go compare Old Persian with Avestan their distance half as much as Kurdish, "Aryan" my ass.

Can we get his fucking retard banned?Hahahah. You told me that Avestan was closer to Balto-Slavic languages than to Kurdish. The only fake person with fake account are you here.


Distance between Avestan and Persian is very small, it is 34,5

Avestan is closer to Persian than to Kurdish. I never denied that!
https://i.postimg.cc/9QckdRCJ/persian.jpg
http://elinguistics.net/Compare_Languages.aspx?Language1=Persian&Language2=Avestan&Order=Calc


So, Kurdish is not Aryan? That's new, lol!

[MS85]

But we all know that Kurdish is more 'pure' than Persian. Kurdish has still got (proto-Indo-Iranian) ergativity, while Persian lost it a long time ago.

Kurdish as a Northwest Iranian language is an ARYAN language. And it is the 'purest' modern Aryan language that exists and is spoken!

[Pahli]

But we all know that Kurdish is more 'pure' than Persian. Kurdish has still got (proto-Indo-Iranian) ergativity, while Persian lost it a long time ago.

Kurdish as a Northwest Iranian language is an ARYAN language. And it is the 'purest' modern Aryan language that exists and is spoken!

A lot of people will disagree, Proto-Indo-Iranian is the "purest" Aryan language, not a 4000 year old descendant with only 10% of its features and vocabulary

[MS85]

A lot of people will disagree, Proto-Indo-Iranian is the "purest" Aryan language, not a 4000 year old descendant with only 10% of its features and vocabularyThis is a stupid comparison! Proto-Indo-Iranian doesn't exist! It was spoken maybe 7000 years ago. But it is evolved into Kurdish/modern Aryan. There is a continuous evolution of everything, human races and human languages. Our human languages are becoming more modern with the age.

I was not talking about death languages. I was talking about living spoken languages. Kurdish is an Aryan language. It is not like mixed Indic/Dravidian versus Vedic Sanskrit.

Kurdish as Aryan language is still very pure, we Kurds are very pure Aryans. Our DNA didn't change for the last 3000 years. We as isolated people in our Aryan Zagros mountains preserved our Aryan language. Why do you think there are so many Kurdish dialects? It is because of the moutnains. Our mountains preserved our Aryan language.


This map shows the regions of the world where Avestan (Parsi) is still used in the religious rites of Zoroastrianism (red circles). Avestan comes from the Iranian sub-branch of the Indo-Iranian branch of Indo-European languages. Avesta is most closely related to Baluchi, Kurdish, Pashto, and the extinct language of Sogdian. It is somewhat more distantly related to Old Persian and Persian.

https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/IE_Satem_Avestan.html


In general it is considered by the academics that Kurdish is very close to Avestan. But Avestan was also very close to the ancient Old Persian. And there is also a reason why modern Persian is as close to Avestan and Kurdish. That's because most Persians were Zoroastrians. And Parsi incorporated many Zend-Avestan/Parsi words into Persian. While most Kurds, at least Kurmanji Kurds who belong to the majority to the Kurds, were Ezdi/Mitraists.

[Marmara]

Purest Aryans were Sintasha Proto-Indo-Iranians.

Compare your genetics with them to know how much Aryan you are.

[MS85]

Purest Aryans were Sintasha Proto-Indo-Iranians.

Compare your genetics with them to know how much Aryan you are.No, purest Aryans are Turks from Constantinople.

[Pahli]

Purest Aryans were Sintasha Proto-Indo-Iranians.

Compare your genetics with them to know how much Aryan you are.

Don't even try, this guy is obsessed with everything "Kurdish"

[Leto]

Don't even try, this guy is obsessed with everything "Kurdish"
He needs to see this Aryan Afghan. The guy is partially from Badakhshan as far as I know (someone said where exactly he is from)
Aryan Afghan GEDmatch Results (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?236279-Aryan-Afghan-GEDmatch-Results)

[Kyp]

He needs to see this Aryan Afghan. The guy is partially from Badakhshan as far as I know (someone said where exactly he is from)
Aryan Afghan GEDmatch Results (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?236279-Aryan-Afghan-GEDmatch-Results)

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/07/an-early-iranian-obviously.html'
or this

[Babak]

My man, we are free to believe whatever we want. I'm just providing you folks with scientific data and facts!

The 'theory' you think is right works according to me only for eastern Iranian Scythian invasion of India around 1500BC.
Proto-East Iranian BMAC was for more than 85% native Iranian.

Steppes related ancestry in Kurdistan predate any Yamnaya by thousands of years. We have already data from the ancient Armenian and Iranian plateau and it is much more likely that Steppes related ancestry is very ancient and just native to Kurdistan for thousands of years.

Until people can PROVE me a better alternative, I would rather believe my own intuition/observation and knowledge.

So whats this then:


"A significant section of the archaeologists are more inclined to see the culture as begun by farmers in the Near Eastern Neolithic tradition, but infiltrated by Indo-Iranian speakers from the Andronovo culture in its late phase, creating a hybrid. In this perspective, Proto-Indo-Aryan developed within the composite culture before moving south into the Indian subcontinent."[18] As James P. Mallory phrased it:

"It has become increasingly clear that if one wishes to argue for Indo-Iranian migrations from the steppe lands south into the historical seats of the Iranians and Indo-Aryans that these steppe cultures were transformed as they passed through a membrane of Central Asian urbanism. The fact that typical steppe wares are found on BMAC sites and that intrusive BMAC material is subsequently found further to the south in Iran, Afghanistan, Nepal, India and Pakistan, may suggest then the subsequent movement of Indo-Iranian-speakers after they had adopted the culture of the BMAC.[20]"



It looks like Indo-Iranians were Bmacized before they had any contact with Iran, which explains why they scored half Iran-neo.

[Leto]

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/07/an-early-iranian-obviously.html'
or this
Oh yeah, great article. That IA Turkmenistan sample was on GEDmatch too, not sure if it's still available

HarappaWorld Oracle results:
23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

Kit Z936555

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 34.3
2 NE-Euro 34.07
3 Caucasian 23.64
4 Mediterranean 2.75
5 S-Indian 2.26
6 American 1.33
7 W-African 1.04
8 Beringian 0.39
9 Siberian 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 tajik (yunusbayev) 18.92
2 urkarah (xing) 20.73
3 stalskoe (xing) 22.19
4 lezgin (behar) 24.95
5 pashtun (harappa) 26.69
6 turkmen (yunusbayev) 26.92
7 nogai (yunusbayev) 29.18
8 kalash (hgdp) 29.37
9 haryana-jatt (harappa) 29.63
10 chechen (yunusbayev) 29.7
11 kumyk (yunusbayev) 29.79
12 pathan (hgdp) 29.84
13 burusho (hgdp) 32.36
14 romanian-a (behar) 32.45
15 bhatia (harappa) 32.62
16 iranian (harappa) 32.8
17 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 33.13
18 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 33.27
19 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 33.37
20 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 33.56

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.5% makrani (hgdp) + 47.5% russian (behar) @ 12.61
2 76.7% tajik (yunusbayev) + 23.3% lithuanian (behar) @ 12.98
3 53% balochi (hgdp) + 47% russian (behar) @ 13
4 51.2% brahui (hgdp) + 48.8% russian (behar) @ 13.18
5 74.8% tajik (yunusbayev) + 25.2% belorussian (behar) @ 13.4
6 74.4% tajik (yunusbayev) + 25.6% russian (behar) @ 13.42
7 80.4% tajik (yunusbayev) + 19.6% finnish (1000genomes) @ 13.64
8 50.2% makrani (hgdp) + 49.8% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 13.66
9 72.9% tajik (yunusbayev) + 27.1% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 13.67
10 53.1% makrani (hgdp) + 46.9% belorussian (behar) @ 13.71
11 73% tajik (yunusbayev) + 27% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 13.78
12 72.8% urkarah (xing) + 27.2% orcadian (hgdp) @ 13.8
13 50.2% makrani (hgdp) + 49.8% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 13.89
14 50.6% balochi (hgdp) + 49.4% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 14.05
15 60% kalash (hgdp) + 40% russian (behar) @ 14.08
16 53.5% balochi (hgdp) + 46.5% belorussian (behar) @ 14.09
17 74.8% urkarah (xing) + 25.2% lithuanian (behar) @ 14.11
18 50.6% balochi (hgdp) + 49.4% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 14.13
19 72% urkarah (xing) + 28% russian (hgdp) @ 14.25
20 70% urkarah (xing) + 30% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 14.3

Dodecad K12b Oracle results:

Kit Z936555

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Gedrosia 35.97
2 North_European 32.42
3 Caucasus 19.16
4 Atlantic_Med 8.33
5 South_Asian 2.23
6 Siberian 1.19
7 Sub_Saharan 0.71

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 17.56
2 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 26.43
3 Lezgins (Behar) 27
4 Pathan (HGDP) 29.58
5 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 31.75
6 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 32.91
7 Burusho (HGDP) 32.93
8 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 33.49
9 Iranians (Behar) 33.52
10 Iranian (Dodecad) 33.59
11 Kurd (Dodecad) 34.39
12 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 34.83
13 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 35.19
14 Jatt (Dodecad) 35.24
15 Romanians (Behar) 35.37
16 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 37.16
17 Hungarians (Behar) 37.25
18 Uzbeks (Behar) 37.66
19 German (Dodecad) 38.79
20 Turks (Behar) 38.94

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.9% Makrani (HGDP) + 47.1% Russian_B (Behar) @ 11.06
2 52.1% Balochi (HGDP) + 47.9% Russian_B (Behar) @ 11.09
3 50.6% Balochi (HGDP) + 49.4% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 11.1
4 51.4% Makrani (HGDP) + 48.6% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 11.33
5 50.5% Makrani (HGDP) + 49.5% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 11.51
6 50.3% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) + 49.7% Balochi (HGDP) @ 11.65
7 53.7% Makrani (HGDP) + 46.3% Belorussian (Behar) @ 11.68
8 51.3% Balochi (HGDP) + 48.7% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 11.74
9 52.9% Balochi (HGDP) + 47.1% Belorussian (Behar) @ 11.76
10 52.1% Makrani (HGDP) + 47.9% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 11.76
11 52.5% Makrani (HGDP) + 47.5% Russian (Dodecad) @ 11.8
12 51.7% Balochi (HGDP) + 48.3% Russian (Dodecad) @ 11.94
13 52.6% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 47.4% Brahui (HGDP) @ 12.39
14 51.1% Russian_B (Behar) + 48.9% Brahui (HGDP) @ 12.59
15 55.8% Makrani (HGDP) + 44.2% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 12.61
16 81.1% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) + 18.9% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 12.62
17 52.5% Makrani (HGDP) + 47.5% Polish (Dodecad) @ 12.64
18 51.7% Balochi (HGDP) + 48.3% Polish (Dodecad) @ 12.64
19 80.3% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) + 19.7% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 12.72
20 79.1% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) + 20.9% Belorussian (Behar) @ 12.84

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 46.02
2 North_Atlantic 22.95
3 Baltic 21.56
4 South_Asian 8.06
5 Amerindian 0.73
6 East_Med 0.69

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tabassaran 14.06
2 Lezgin 17.42
3 Chechen 17.58
4 Kabardin 21.75
5 Tadjik 22.58
6 North_Ossetian 23.02
7 Adygei 23.55
8 Kumyk 23.61
9 Afghan_Pashtun 23.96
10 Balkar 24.03
11 Ossetian 24.25
12 Afghan_Tadjik 28.29
13 Nogay 28.32
14 Kalash 29.63
15 Turkmen 30.77
16 Georgian 30.96
17 Balochi 31.37
18 Brahui 32.99
19 Abhkasian 32.99
20 Makrani 33.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.1% Tabassaran + 15.9% Swedish @ 11.57
2 84.4% Tabassaran + 15.6% Norwegian @ 11.6
3 84.6% Tabassaran + 15.4% North_Swedish @ 11.69
4 84.7% Tabassaran + 15.3% Irish @ 11.74
5 85.2% Tabassaran + 14.8% West_Scottish @ 11.81
6 84.7% Tabassaran + 15.3% Danish @ 11.85
7 84.8% Tabassaran + 15.2% North_Dutch @ 11.85
8 84.2% Tabassaran + 15.8% North_German @ 11.92
9 85.6% Tabassaran + 14.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 11.93
10 85.4% Tabassaran + 14.6% Orcadian @ 11.94
11 86.5% Tabassaran + 13.5% La_Brana-1 @ 11.99
12 86.2% Tabassaran + 13.8% Estonian @ 12.01
13 86.1% Tabassaran + 13.9% Finnish @ 12.03
14 86.1% Tabassaran + 13.9% Southwest_English @ 12.1
15 86.7% Tabassaran + 13.3% Lithuanian @ 12.18
16 86.8% Tabassaran + 13.2% East_Finnish @ 12.22
17 86.5% Tabassaran + 13.5% Southeast_English @ 12.29
18 86% Tabassaran + 14% Polish @ 12.37
19 86.3% Tabassaran + 13.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 12.41
20 87.1% Tabassaran + 12.9% Belorussian @ 12.49

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?245810-3-Steppe-GEDmatch-results-from-Damgaard-et-al

[Yaglakar]

But how close in your opinion is their relation to the modern groups that call themselves Tatars? In particular Volga and Crimean Tatars.

It has a lot to do with Russian and European continued use of the term "Tatar" for these aforementioned peoples. The name stuck and was later applied to peoples who were conquered by Tatars aka Mongols in this context.

[WinterCrusader]

North Indians due to Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, Kurds on other hand are Aryanised Middle Eastern Farmers.

east Iranian Pashtuns, Tajiks, Pamiris and Upper Caste North Indians such as Brahmins have high percentage of R1a_z93 bloodline and original Aryan ancestry, its real shame that followers of blond haired, blue eyed Indra became what they are today.

a lessen to learn and a thing to remember for Germanics and Nords.

[Thambi]

north indian is such a broad term. It covers kashmir to uttar pradesh/bihar area depending on the definition. If its northwest india like punjab, kashmir, haryana, himachal, some rajasthani groups then yeah pashtuns are probably closer to them than to kurds. However, pashtuns are closer to kurds than to UP/bihar folks in general, even upper castes.

[Thambi]

You made a great statement bro. congratulations. you spit the truth!

bro lol why are you trolling so much on pashtun threads recently?

[Applesandoranges]

bro lol why are you trolling so much on pashtun threads recently?

Its all because of me.

On his forum, at one point(many months ago, perhaps back to january?), he asked us all what he looks like. Of course we all said gypsy or south iranian. He didnt accept it well, especially with me, so he took it out on me by trying to constantly make afghans indians. He stopped at one point, but started with this bullshit again.
Looking indian has a huge mental impact on him(which is why he constantly talk about looking like an indian on reddit, theapricity + other forums, and is obsessed with afghans)


You dont believe me? Go to anthroworld, ask people how bokoto was like before and AFTER i said he looks like a gypsy