Does any DNA-Calculator for IE-admixture exist ?

[decordoba]

I am new in using DNA-calculators for Autosomale DNA. I am interested to check out, how many % admixture of Indoeuropean (Steppe) I have.

I used the MDLP K23b calculator of GEDmatch, this calculator shows Ancestral_Altaic and South_Central_Asian. This is part of the Indoeuropean admixture, the other part of IE is included in WHG, EEF, Caucasus.

Does anyone have an idea how to calculate the IE-amount of my autosomale DNA ?

[Peterski]

Yes, Eurogenes Steppe K10:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32855-Post-your-Eurogenes-Steppe-K10?p=490493&viewfull=1#post490493

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?170036-Post-your-Steppe-K10-results&p=3571006&viewfull=1#post3571006

Perhaps also Eurasia K14 Neolithic and Gedrosia K12.

[decordoba]

I tried to calculate the % of my Steppe-DNA using Gedrosia K12 Calculator - not easy ;)

https://decordoba1.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/jb_gedrosia_k12_steppe_herders_2.jpg?w=660

And I calculated using MDLP K23_Calcualtor my Ancestry-DNA - European and Asian:

https://decordoba1.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/jb_mdlp_k23b-kalkulator_ancestry_dna_2.jpg?w=660

I hope you can see the graphics, otherwise I will upload them again, and you can open the Links.

I guess, that I have about 30 % Indoeuropean DNA from the Steppe, part of this IE-DNA ist included in WHG, EEF, CHG.

[Rethel]

:picard2:

[decordoba]

https://goo.gl/images/kH3Ihf

This graphic shows that the Indoeuropean from the Steppe are a mixture of - Western Hunters and Gatherers + Ancient North Eurasians + Near Eastern (= Anatolian Farmers + Caucasus Farmers?) + a few South Asians + a few East Eurasians.

Now I am working to solve the problem to combine these informations with the GEDmatch calculators ;)


But I am not good in high mathematics ;)

another r1ethelian :picard2: face from me to you, decordoba, for you last post lol :tongue1:

[decordoba]

another r1ethelian :picard2: face from me to you, decordoba, for you last post lol :tongue1:

So you dont believe that the Indoeuropeans are a mixture of different ethnics - as WHG, ANE, EEF, and a few South- and East Asians.

^decordoba, well yes and no. let me take a breath first :D i didnt say graph is wrong. its actually not even graph, it doesnt say the proportions really, but basically a sketch with some question marks. (also the whg portion color is not correct, and if you click the link it says at bottom of graph that there has been recalculations)

any ways so you want to know how indo europeans can be modelled. such a broad term.. but im assuming you specifically refer to those early people who lived in steppe who believed to responsible from spread of these languages and who contributed significant to genetic make up of many europeans (especially north east, north west so on). i can try to tell you what i know.

but to start from beginning, note that,there are various hypothesis on where whats called proto indoeuropean language emerged first and how it spread. and also note that,in terms of modern,you can speak a whats called indoeuropean language but its still possible you may not share much ancestry with other speakers because there are various scenario to adopt a language or people can have much drift from others at a later time, and similarly you may not speak such language but can still share much ancestry with those ie speakers

now assuming you refers to yamnaya, there are various suggestions to model them. here we go

lazaridis of harvard and his team for instance approximates that steppe emba is 56,8 % ehg+ 27,2592 chg % + 7,2144 % iran neolithic + 8,7264 levant n. so where is the whg? steppe emba have some whg through ehg and chg, not from a different source. (and a tiny bit, less than 1 % can be from levant n which have small root from anatolia neolithic which have some whg, but its complicated because levant n is also ancestal in some part to a neo so its two sided relationship and its not certain what ancestry comes from which of two -- its some little common snps)

ehg in general is ~75 % ane (ancient north eurasian) and ~25 % whg. so the 56,8 % ehg of steppe emba has 14.2 % whg hidden in it, and the 42.6 % of it is ane). so do you see how these components/ancient ancestries are related to each other? its like matryoshka dolls. i go on, also chg in general is 21,4 % ehg (again 75%ane,25%whg). and because steppe emba is 27,2592 % chg according to lazaridis, some thing like 5,8335 % of it is ehg (which again, 4.3751 % of it is ane, 1.4583 % of it is whg). in addition chg has 7 % extra whg which would give steppe emba 1,9081 % extra whg. (by the way im using this exact numbers to keep it as calculated by lazaridis but dont take any thing for granted, he also makes some roundings and take average of samples that we have only. so its kinda funny to say some thing is 4,3751 x... so on, when it comes to population genetics because nothing is pure so but you have to assume some of them as pure so you can make calculations in manner you are capable.) so if we deduct ancestry from any thing, steppe emba has more than 15 % and less than 17 % whg (through ehg and chg). our other steppe cluster (mlba) has some different proportion of ancestry than emba has though. steppe mlba is 68,5 % steppe emba (i explained you what steppe emba is like) and as extra to this, steppe mlba is indirectly 24,5385 % anatolia neolithic and 6,9615 % whg. so it has an additional 6,9615 % whg. now lets look at what is inside anatolia neolithic. it is 27,4 % whg and 38,7 % iran neolithic and 33,9 % levant neolithic (or levant neolithic is around 33,3 % anatolia neolithic and 66,7 natufian-like. natufian is 44,8 basal eurasian and the rest is unknown. similarly, 51.8 % of iran neo is unknown. these unknown parts other than basal is also a father that whg also descended but its not yet proven. but whg is also an ancestry which born from mesopotamia and believed to migrate to west coasts of mediterranean sea a very long ago so it had its own consistent genetic mutations. and from there it migrated to north so on. first whgs samples we have are very dark skinned and dark eyed/haired. later on we have younger sample which is again dark skinned and dark haired but this time with blue eyes. any ways lets not go off topic you can check what percentage of some ancient genomes had snps related to pigmentation or lactase persistence so on in first spoiler.) so from the neolithic anatolian farmers, steppe mlba has 5,3248 % whg too. therefore steppe mlba has extra 12.2863 % whg than steppe emba. so its less than 30 % but only indirectly. but still lazaridis model them as the initial formulation i wrote.


https://s25.postimg.org/oj32uz9sf/SNPs.png

https://s25.postimg.org/64sjqzxhr/image.png


these two paragraphs above are from lazaridis model but bloggers like davidski of eurogenes dont agree with lazaridis and say yamnaya is only ehg+chg unlike lazaridis model of yamnaya (i already wrote his percentages above) as ehg+chg+with small ineo+levant (along with the last two it would make iran chalcholic + ehg but davidski believe yamnaya has no descent from ineo or ichalcholitic but only ehg and chg. he says no matter some shared ancestry with chg and others, they are still distinct populations than chg (lazaridis say that too) but davidski also say north east europeans like lithuanians and russians which have highest yamnaya related ancestry dont have i neo but only ehg+chg from this yamnaya like side. (well you might say now, but they have some anatolia neolithic which share some ancestry with ineo so they still have indirect admixture from that, but his calculators dont work like that, there will always be some lumped/hidden ancestry in some thing else as they are distinct populations than each other with different mutations despite some common in between)

and apart from this information, you can also check davidski s eurogenes steppe calculator sheet if you like, it has individual percentages for samples from different ethnichities but here is a table of averages that a member posted before.
https://s25.postimg.org/ojqib29n3/steppe_ancestry_yamnaya.jpg
this shows the average of that calculator s steppe component which peaks 99,96 % in yamnaya sample included. and how much modern ethnichities share with them. this steppe ancestry in that peaks in lithuanians (ie speaker too) and then estonians (who are not technically ie speaker).

i hope things i wrote clear to you and helpful in what your interested, and that,you understand my english.

[decordoba]

.....i hope things i wrote clear to you and helpful in what your interested.....

Thank you for the informations. The connections are complex. And I am confused ;)
Maybe I find another DNA-calculator that works all in one, the Indoeuropean part (input) is set to 100 % IE (nothing else). The other admixture of WHG, EHG, EEF, Caucasus,... that doesnot come from IE is reduced - in total 100 %

Я знаю - в матрешку .......... ;)

Thank you for the informations. The connections are complex. And I am confused ;)
Maybe I find another DNA-calculator that works all in one, the Indoeuropean part (input) is set to 100 % IE (nothing else). The other admixture of WHG, EHG, EEF, Caucasus,... that doesnot come from IE is reduced - in total 100 %

Я знаю - в матрешку .......... ;)

that calculator is already for that purpose and is good only at that. steppe component peaks in yamnaya as 99,96 % (average) which means 100 %. it is rather high in north east europeans, very low in indians (indo- part of ie). plus calculator can not detect what language was spoken by what snps lol :D but it does check the shared genetic drift with particular group. when yamnaya is like 100 %, lithuanians with 40 % as yamnayalike ancestry. that calculator already have 10 components, the percengages in the chart is percentages for one of them -- the steppe. the others included in full spread sheet. it already shows how much extra ehg so on some populations have. i dont know what you mean all in one :D but you are very welcome -- if you find helpful to you, you can message me when ever you like.

[Nurzat]

Does any DNA-Calculator for IE-admixture exist ?

you can best see Indo-European / Yamnaya heritage on one's face. of all Europe, only Mediterraneans totally lack it (or it's so weak it doesn't show on their face).

closest people to Yamnaya are those that live in or near the actual Yamnaya territory: South Russians, Ukrainians, Moldovans, Belarussians, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Poles

[Danishmend]

closest people to Yamnaya are those that live in or near the actual Yamnaya territory: South Russians, Ukrainians, Moldovans, Belarussians, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Poles

Closest people to Yamnaya are modern Volga-Ural populations, but even they are not that close. No modern population resembles Yamnaya (1/2 EHG 1/2 CHG).

[Peterski]

Closest people to Yamnaya are modern Volga-Ural populations

Depends which calculator you use.

In Dodecad K12b, the closest population are Pamiri Tajiks:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?190216-David-Reich-s-summary-of-the-population-history-of-Europe&p=3986369#post3986369

Depends which calculator you use.

In Dodecad K12b, the closest population are Pamiri Tajiks:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?190216-David-Reich-s-summary-of-the-population-history-of-Europe&p=3986369#post3986369

man those oracles dont mean that. :) they dont care if you have direct descent from yamnaya/yamnaya like population. being close to it can also be measured on how much drift you share. but to oracles, its not about common spns. the logic for that is rather if you have euro + east asian + south asian, then i guess you as tajik because thats almost the only population with significant mix of three. plus, yamnaya sample just like any ancient sample gets some noise and real when the calculator is for moderns. also moderns dont have to score all what ancients score (for instance when you score ane it doesnt mean you have all what mal'ta boy had. we dont even have direct descent from him as its extinct population but from a similar that contributed to our genetics. though mal'ta had definitely the most of it. we use it as one of two ane references because we are interested in that big portion of his ancestry that is not closely related to other ancients we have. again as to oracles, its like a latin american with lets say spaniard and part amerindian root getting finnish or even russian first on single oracles because they are understudied and not enough pops included in calculator, also because what else can be some thing with supposedly high whg, also farmer so on and some siberian? it guess that person as finnish despite being very different because spaniard doesnt have extra siberian, east asian like stuff which finns have little. they have very different make up. a amerindian has ane as well as east asian like ancestry while finns and russians have whats called ane through mainly ehg (which wa 75 % ane) and then chg. that small north east euroasian.. if we calculate the actual distance using snps and wc algorithm and countless other ways then it will suggest that person is closer to a spaniard because he shares with them most, not with a finn. but oracles a different story -- its all about guessing on surface.

apart from this, going back to topic, there is actually another misleading stuff to calculate steppe ancestry. davidski say yamnaya only ehg+chg and dont have any descent from iran neolithic or chalcolithic. tajik have bunch of ineo and not really chg. why he says yamnaya doesnt have root from neolithic? because regardless of what ineo shares to certain extent with chg and other, they are still essentially highly different populations with different mutations. also paleolithic satsurblia and mesolithic kotias chg had ehg (ane+whg) and whg that ineo sample didnt have any. and in both it was a specific pattern of proportion to show its a different line. thats why there is no chg or direct whg in india, only ineo and ust'-ishim like ancestry, hence giving some basal and unknown from one and ane-like and asi from other. and this basal and ane like is reason for confusion. you see? whats funnier is that if you dont have seperate components for chg and ineo, then it will lump all different ancestry with irrelevant populations, just like an old calculator saying that say sardinians 75 % near estern while they have root from a very different line of farmers that dont have share more than 25-30 %. they fixed this because if sardinians being 75 %, sheet said north west europeans being 30 % near eastern because of that farmer ancestry while its actually not near eastern/middle eastern ancestry. (and either way they would still fix this to call at least one as 100 % euro). with that wrong logic then every west eurasian ancestry (except only ane) would be near eastern if you know what i mean. beside a few days ago i remember some ta user saying some north indians having same level chg with georgians and this is 100 % not true because those north indians have literally no actual chg but ineo plus some later european ancestry from other source. chg is only a donor with a defined proportion of ehg and whg (loschbour like) which also have ehg. those indians dont have that exact pattern. all calculators that say other wise is lumping. i think you already know this though if you read davidski. so what im trying say a similar story is for tajiks, despite they are very different than n ind. that i mentioned in this analogy. to have modern population thats relatively close to yamnaya, you need substantial ehg and chg.. not only ane, but speficific mix of ane and whg = ehg. not ineo, but specific other mix.

[decordoba]

I could not use the Eurogenes Steppe K-10 calculator.

First I downloaded the statistics-software R and installed it successfully.

I downloaded SteppeK10.zip, unpacked it and moved it to C:/SteppeK10.

After I changed the Raw-Data of my 23andMe DNA-test to the format of plain-text (to use with microsoft text-editor), and moved a copy to the directory C:/SteppeK10.

I startet R program successfully, Change dir to C:/SteppeK10.

Using R-console I did the script:

'standardize.r'
..............
'abcdef.txt',company='23andMe'
..............
'DIYDodecadWin steppe.par'
..............
ENTER

The result: nothing !

I dont know what I did wrong.