Pazyryk Scythians Y-Dna: N1b

[gültekin]

http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=j5wfw&viewuid=J5WFW&p=0
http://s18.postimg.org/uswvwre15/usanin1.png
http://s18.postimg.org/4411ruzm1/usanin2.png
prediction http://www.nevgen.org/
https://s17.postimg.io/3kknuhby7/pazyryk_scythian.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk_culture#cite_note-2

The Pazyryk culture is a Scythian[1] Iron Age archaeological culture (c. 6th to 3rd centuries BC) identified by excavated artifacts and mummified humans found in the Siberian permafrost, in the Altay Mountains, Kazakhstan and nearby Mongolia. The mummies are buried in long barrows (or kurgans) similar to the tomb mounds of western Scythian culture in modern Ukraine. The type site are the Pazyryk burials of the Ukok Plateau.(NOVA 2007) Many artifacts and human remains have been found at this location, including the Siberian Ice Princess, indicating a flourishing culture at this location that benefited from the many trade routes and caravans of merchants passing through the area.(State Hermitage Museum 2007) The Pazyryk are considered to have had a war-like life.(Jordana 2009)

Other kurgan cemeteries associated with the culture include those of Bashadar, Tuekta, Ulandryk, Polosmak and Berel. There are so far no known sites of settlements associated with the burials, suggesting a purely nomadic lifestyle.

DNA samples recovered from the remains of two Pazyryk males showed them to be members of Y-chromosome haplogroup N (N1b).[2]

[gültekin]

By The Siberian Times reporter
14 August 2012

The ancient mummy of a mysterious young woman, known as the Ukok Princess, is finally returning home to the Altai Republic this month.

http://siberiantimes.com/upload/information_system_39/4/1/1/item_411/information_items_411.jpg
Reconstruction of a warrior's tattoos, who was discovered on the same plateau as the 'Princess'. All drawings of tattoos, here and below, were made by Elena Shumakova, Institute of Archeology and Ethnography, Siberian Branch of Russian Academy of Science

She is to be kept in a special mausoleum at the Republican National Museum in capital Gorno-Altaisk, where eventually she will be displayed in a glass sarcophagus to tourists.

For the past 19 years, since her discovery, she was kept mainly at a scientific institute in Novosibirsk, apart from a period in Moscow when her remains were treated by the same scientists who preserve the body of Soviet founder Vladimir Lenin.

To mark the move 'home', The Siberian Times has obtained intricate drawings of her remarkable tattoos, and those of two men, possibly warriors, buried near her on the remote Ukok Plateau, now a UNESCO world cultural and natural heritage site, some 2,500 metres up in the Altai Mountains in a border region close to frontiers of Russia with Mongolia, China and Kazakhstan.

They are all believed to be Pazyryk people - a nomadic people described in the 5th century BC by the Greek historian Herodotus - and the colourful body artwork is seen as the best preserved and most elaborate ancient tattoos anywhere in the world.

To many observers, it is startling how similar they are to modern-day tattoos.

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/Princess%20Ukok,%20tattoos%20on%20her%20shoulder.j pg
Reconstruction of Princess Ukok's tattoos, made by Siberian scientists

The remains of the immaculately dressed 'princess', aged around 25 and preserved for several millennia in the Siberian permafrost, a natural freezer, were discovered in 1993 by Novosibirsk scientist Natalia Polosmak during an archeological expedition.

Buried around her were six horses, saddled and bridled, her spiritual escorts to the next world, and a symbol of her evident status, perhaps more likely a revered folk tale narrator, a healer or a holy woman than an ice princess.

There, too, was a meal of sheep and horse meat and ornaments made from felt, wood, bronze and gold. And a small container of cannabis, say some accounts, along with a stone plate on which were the burned seeds of coriander.

'Compared to all tattoos found by archeologists around the world, those on the mummies of the Pazyryk people are the most complicated, and the most beautiful,' said Dr Polosmak.

'More ancient tattoos have been found, like the Ice Man found in the Alps - but he only had lines, not the perfect and highly artistic images one can see on the bodies of the Pazyryks.

'It is a phenomenal level of tattoo art. Incredible.'

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/tattoo%20on%20hand%20and%20with%20a%20drawing%20of %20dear.jpg
Princess Ukok's shoulder, tattoo of fantastic animal, and a drawing of it made by Siberian scientists

While the tattoos, preserved in the permafrost, have been known about since the remains were dug up, until now few have seen the intricate reconstructions that we reveal here.

'Tattoos were used as a mean of personal identification - like a passport now, if you like. The Pazyryks also believed the tattoos would be helpful in another life, making it easy for the people of the same family and culture to find each other after death,' added Dr Polosmak.

'Pazyryks repeated the same images of animals in other types of art, which is considered to be like a language of animal images, which represented their thoughts.

'The same can be said about the tattoos - it was a language of animal imagery, used to express some thoughts and to define one's position both in society, and in the world. The more tattoos were on the body, the longer it meant the person lived, and the higher was his position.

'For example the body of one man, which was found earlier in the 20th century, had his entire body covered with tattoos. Our young woman - the princess - has only her two arms tattooed. So they signified both age and status.'

The tattoos on the left shoulder of the 'princess' show a fantastical mythological animal: a deer with a griffon's beak and a Capricorn's antlers. The antlers are decorated with the heads of griffons. And the same griffon's head is shown on the back of the animal.

The mouth of a spotted panther with a long tail is seen at the legs of a sheep.

She also has a deer's head on her wrist, with big antlers. There is a drawing on the animal's body on a thumb on her left hand.

On the man found close to the 'princess', the tattoos include the same fantastical creature, this time covering the right side of his body, across his right shoulder and stretching from his chest to his back.

The patterns mirror the tattoos on a much more elaborately covered male body, dug from the ice in 1929, whose highly decorated torso is also reconstructed in our drawing here.

His chest, arms, part of the back and the lower leg are covered with tattoos. There is an argali - a mountain sheep - along with the same deer with griffon's vulture-like beak, with horns and the back of its head which has a griffon's heads and an onager drawn on it.

All animals are shown with the lower parts of their bodies turned inside out. There is also a winged snow leopard, a fish and fast-running argali.

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/man,%20shoulder%20tattoo%20close%20up.jpg

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/man%20-2-mummy.jpg
A drawing of a tattoo on a warrior's shoulder. Below: this is what the tattoo looks like now, thousands of years after it was made

To some, the clash depicted on the tattoes between vultures and hoofed animals corresponds to the conflict between two worlds: a predator from the lower, chthonian world against herbivorous animals that symbolise the middle world.

Dr Polosmak is intrigued at way so little has changed.

'We can say that most likely there was - and is - one place on the body for everyone to start putting the tattoos on, and it was a left shoulder. I can assume so because all the mummies we found with just one tattoo had it on their left shoulders.

'And nowadays this is the same place where people try to put the tattoos on, thousands of years on.

'I think its linked to the body composition... as the left shoulder is the place where it is noticeable most, where it looks the most beautiful. Nothing changes with years, the body stays the same, and the person making a tattoo now is getting closer to his ancestors than he or she may realise.

'I think we have not moved far from Pazyryks in how the tattoos are made. It is still about a craving to make yourself as beautiful as possible.

'For example, about the British. A lot of them go on holiday to Greece, and when I've been there I heard how Greeks were smiling and saying that a British man's age can be easily understood by the number of tattoos on his body.

'I'm talking the working class now. And I noticed it, too. The older a person, the more tattoos are on his body.'


FINDING THE ICE-CLAD 'PRINCESS'

'It was an international research programme, devoted to the Pazyryk Iron Age culture,' said Academician Vyacheslav Molodin, deputy director of Institute of Archeology and Ethnography of the Siberian Branch of Russian Academy of Sciences.

To modern man, the only way in is by helicopter, yet in ancient times this was on the 'southern steppe road' used by migrating nomadic peoples in the pre-Christian and Dark Ages.

'The burial mound with the 'princess' seemed to be half deserted, with big holes which border guards dug to use the stones.

'It seemed less than hopeful. But Natalya Polosmak was determined that we had to start working on it.....

'To our utter surprise, there was an untouched burial chamber inside the mould.

'We started working on opening the 'ice lense' - the burial inside the mould was filled with ancient ice.

'We started to melt the ice. First the skeletons of six horses appeared, some with preserved wooden decorations on the harness, some with coloured saddles made from felt.

'On one of the saddles was a picture of a jumping winged lion.

'Then the burial room appeared from under the ice. It was made from larch logs. Inside stood a massive hollowed wooden log with a top, shut with bronze nails. Inside the log was all filled with ice.

'It was a tanned arm that appeared from under the ice first.

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/princess%20of%20Ukok%20mummy,%20with%20marked%20ta ttoo%20on%20her%20arm%20-%20credit%20Siberian%20Times,%20queries%20Will%20S tewart%20007%20985%20998%2094%2000.jpg

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/princess,%20fingers%20tattoo.jpg
Princess Ukok's hand, as the scientists saw her first, with marked tattoos on her fingers and, below, the drawings of tattoos

'A bit more work and we saw remain of a young woman, lying inside the log in a sleeping position, with her knees bent.

'She was dressed in a long shirt made from Chinese silk, and had long felt sleeve boots with a beautiful decoration on them.

'Chinese silk before was only found in 'Royal' burials of the Pazyryk people - it was more expensive than gold, and was a sign of a true wealth. 'There was jewellery and a mirror found by the log.

'The great value of Pazyryk burials is that they were all made in permafrost, which helped the preservation.

'It was quite unusual to have a single Pazyryk burial. Usually men from this culture were buried with women.

'In this case, her separate burial might signify her celibacy, which was typical for cult servants or shamans, and meant her independence and exceptionality.

'She had no weapons buried with her, or on her, which means that she certainly was not one of the noble Pazyryk women-warriors.

'Most likely, she possessed some special knowledge and was a healer, or folk tale narrator.

'From the inside the mummy was filled with herbs and roots. Her head was completely shaved, and she wore a horse hair wig.

'On top of the wig there was a symbol of the tree of life - a stick made from felt, wrapped with black tissue and decorated with small figures of birds in golden foil.

'On the front of the wig, like a cockade, was attached a wooden carving of deer.

'The princess's face and neck skin was not preserved, but the skin of her left arm survived, and we saw a tattoo, going all along it.

'She had tattoos on both arms, from shoulders to wrists, with some on the fingers, too. The best preserved of all was a tattoo on her left shoulder, featuring a deer with griffon's beak and a Capricorn's horns. A bit below is a sheep, with a snow leopard by its feet.'

It is said tattoos, once done, are for life. In this case, though, it was a whole lot longer. The experts say they were made with paint, partially concocted from the burned bits of plants, their soot or ashes which contained a high level of potassium. The drawings were pierced with a needle, and rubbed with a mixture of soot and fat.


WHAT RESEARCH ON HER BODY SHOWS

The experts say she died in her 20s, with the best guess at 25 to 28, and that this was 2,500 or more years ago, making her, for example, some five centuries older than Jesus Christ, and several hundred years the senior of Alexander the Great.

'She was called 'Princess' by the media. We just call her 'Devochka', meaning 'Girl'. She was 25-28 years old when she died,' said Irina Salnikova, head of the Siberian Branch of Russian Academy of Sciences Museum of Archeology and Ethnography.

'The reason for her death is unknown, because all her internal organs were removed before the mummifying. All we see is that there is no visible damage to her skull, or anything pointing to the unnatural character of her death.

'Her body is curled, so we cant say for sure how tall she was. Some estimate her to be 1.62 metres, others say she could have been as tall as 1.68 metres .....

'We could not establish when the young woman has had her tattoos made, at what age. The horses, found by her burial, were most likely first killed, and then buried with her.'

In 2010 an MRI scan was conducted on the mummy, the first time this had been done on ancient remains in Russia. The final results of exhaustive analytical work has still not been released.

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/Ukok%20restored%20face%202.jpg
A sculptor's impression of how Princess Ukok looked 2,500 years ago

But Andrei Letyagin, chairman of the MRI Center of the Siberian department of the Russian Academy of Sciences, said: 'The cause of death remains unknown. I don't believe that it will be possible to find an answer to this question because there's no brain and no internal organs in the body.'

In all probability she did not die from injury. 'Her skull is fully preserved, and so are the bones,' he confirmed. DNA obtained from her remains is intriguing.

OBJECTIONS

Many locals in Altai were nervous from the start about the removal of remains from sacred burial mounds, known as kurgans, regardless of the value to science of doing such work.

In a land where the sway of shamans still holds, they believe the princess's removal led immediately to bad consequences.

'There are places here that it is considered a great sin to visit, even for our holy men. The energy and the spirits there are too dangerous,' warned one local. 'Every kurgan has its own spirit - there is both good and bad in them - and people here have suffered much misfortune since the Ice Princess was disturbed.'

It is nothing short of sacrilege to pour hot water on the remains of ancients who have survived in the permafrost for thousands of years, he said.

The 'curse of the mummy' even caused a crash of the helicopter carrying her remains away from Altai, some believe. Then in Novosibirsk, her body, preserved so well for so long, started to decompose.

Stories circulated that the princess had been stored in a freezer used to preserve cheese. Fungi began growing on the preserved flesh, it was claimed.

Whatever the truth, the scientists sought emergency help from the world-renowned Lenin embalming experts who worked on her remains for a year.

Back in Altai, many ills have been blamed on her removal: forest fires, high winds, illness, suicides and an upsurge in earthquakes in the Altai region.

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/Ukok%20gv.jpg

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/ukok%202%20burial.jpg
One of the most mysterious in the world: Ukok plateau, Alta, Siberia. Pictures: Elena Nikultseva

Local woman, Olga Kurtugashova, said: 'She may be a mummy but her soul survives, and they say a shaman communicated with her and she asked to go home. That's what the people want, too.'

'Our ancestors are buried in these mounds,' insisted Rimma Erkinova, deputy director of the Gorno-Altaisk Republican National Museum as a war of words raged over the last decade. 'There are sacred items there. The Altai people never disturb the repose of their ancestors. We shouldn't have any more excavations until we've worked out a proper moral and ethical approach.'

THE CAMPAIGN FOR HER RETURN TO ALTAI

'She was a beautiful young woman, whom they dug up, poured hot water and chemicals upon, and subjected to other experiments. They did this to a real person,' complained Erkinova to the Irish Times newspaper in in 2004.

The same year, an Altai regional chief insisted: 'We must calm people and bury the Altai Princess.

'We're having earth tremors two or three times a week. People think this will go on as long as the princess's spirit is not allowed to rest in peace.'

Many wanted the princess to be returned from the Archaeological and Ethnographic Institute of Novosibirsk, some 600 km away, and restored to her original burial site.

After some 300 earth tremors in a six month period, the head of Kosh-Agachsky district Auelkhan Dzhatkambaev,appealed to the Siberian Federal District presidential envoy Leonid Drachevsky for this to happen.

Drachevsky travelled to Kosh-Agach and told residents that the mummies would not be returned, saying they were serving important scientific purposes, and that he was 'simply uncomfortable hearing about angry spirits, as if we were living in the Middle Ages'.

Erkinova's plan was different. 'We shall put the princess in a glass sarcophagus, so everybody can come and bow before her,' she said.

'This is a very painful issue. Altai's native people worry about their forbear. The Princess must return to us.'

People were angry, too, that the mummies were taken on a tour to Korea and Japan with one report saying the princess 'was met like a diva, with vast crowds, admirers on their knees and bouquets of red roses'.

Eventually a compromise was reached, though delays and arguments followed. Finally this culminates in this month's return of the princess not to her burial place but to the Altai museum.

'We agreed to give back the princess once the conditions for looking after it were right. That means proper accommodation with an air conditioner and a special sarcophagus,' said Molodin as long ago as 1997.

'Another condition was that this was our intellectual property and that we would have the right to use it for exhibitions and to study it. We're not doing this out of curiosity but in the interests of science. The soul is somewhere else and we're studying the remains. So I don't see a violation of any accepted social rule here.'

Finally, all now agree the princess is coming home.

BANNING MORE ARCHEOLOGICAL DIGS

The Altai authorities have now declared the remote mountain area from where the princess and her kinsmen were buried as a 'zone of peace' where no more excavations will take place, despite the near-certain treasures lying in the permafrost.

Such work amounts to plundering, they believe.

To Molodin, who found the male mummy several years after the princess, this deprives the world of a valuable scientific inheritance. He argues, too, that the issue is critical since global warming means the ancient bodies will decay.

Scientists reckon there are thousands of burial mounds here, hundreds of which date to the Pazyryk period, many of which may contain answers to questions about where we come from.


http://siberiantimes.com/culture/others/features/siberian-princess-reveals-her-2500-year-old-tattoos/

[gültekin]

:biggrin
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2096440-founders-of-western-civilisation-were-prehistoric-dope-dealers/

What’s more, Barney Warf at the University of Kansas in Lawrence says that we know from early Greek historians that post-Bronze Age nomadic pastoralists of the steppe who came after the Yamnaya – the Scythians – regularly used cannabis as a drug.

“People talk about Herodotus’s accounts of hanging out in the Crimean peninsula smoking weed with the Scythians,” he says.

Warf says the new work is fascinating, and should encourage more researchers to explore the history and prehistory of cannabis. “I think there’s a largely untold story of cannabis in Europe from the Bronze Age up until the Renaissance,” he says.

[Pahli]

Iranic master race

[Voskos]

whats the percentage of N1b in Turkish oghuz?

[gültekin]

whats the percentage of N1b in Turkish oghuz?
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/OghuzTurks?iframe=yresults
https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/1054303?dpr=2&fit=max&h=592&w=532

[Voskos]

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/OghuzTurks?iframe=yresults
https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/1054303?dpr=2&fit=max&h=592&w=532

second highest after J2, interesting.

[Pahli]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N-M231

[gültekin]

second highest after J2, interesting.
its based only of the Turkish members of this project who are tested on ftdna, we need more testers thought

[Poise n Pen]

BANNING MORE ARCHEOLOGICAL DIGS

The Altai authorities have now declared the remote mountain area from where the princess and her kinsmen were buried as a 'zone of peace' where no more excavations will take place, despite the near-certain treasures lying in the permafrost.

Such work amounts to plundering, they believe.

To Molodin, who found the male mummy several years after the princess, this deprives the world of a valuable scientific inheritance. He argues, too, that the issue is critical since global warming means the ancient bodies will decay.

Scientists reckon there are thousands of burial mounds here, hundreds of which date to the Pazyryk period, many of which may contain answers to questions about where we come from.


Fucking faggots. As if people of 5k years ago are actually their ancestors. They just don't like the results.

[Rethel]

Uraloaltaic OWD agaaain? :picard2:

[Pahli]

Uraloaltaic OWD agaaain? :picard2:

This is what I've said so many times. You can see that with your own eyes :laugh:

[gültekin]

Uraloaltaic OWD agaaain? :picard2:
more like N1b reality

[gültekin]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301548191_Pilipenko_2015_A_PALEOGENETIC_STUDY_OF_P AZYRYK_PEOPLE_BURIED_AT_AK-ALAKHA-


A PALEOGENETIC STUDY OF PAZYRYK PEOPLE BURIED AT AK-ALAKHA-1, GORNY ALTAI
The study outlines the results of a molecular-genetic analysis of two males from a Pazyryk burial at Ak-Alakha-1, Ukok Plateau,
Gorny Altai, relating to mitochondrial DNA, the polymorphic part of amelogenin gene, autosomal STR-loci and STR-loci of
Y-chromosome. Major lineages of both mtDNA and Y-chromosome are identical, indicating kinship. However, more detailed results
exclude fi rst degree (father–son) kinship in favor of a more distant relationship. Phylogenetic and phylogeographic implications
PDF
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Aleksandr_Pilipenko/publication/301548191_Pilipenko_2015_A_PALEOGENETIC_STUDY_OF_P AZYRYK_PEOPLE_BURIED_AT_AK-ALAKHA-1_THE_ALTAI_MOUNTAINS_in_russian/links/5718a0d108aed8a339e5c0c0.pdf?origin=publication_de tail

[Harkonnen]

Uraloaltaic OWD agaaain? :picard2:

What is your opinion, are these remains IE?

There is a tendency in archaelogy (and linguistics) to claim pretty much everything from certain period in time and from certain kind of remains of flesh, blood, pots and culture as IE. There may be some uncertainty in this.

Perhaps these remains could actually represent the eastern expansion of Proto-Samoyeds from the west? Tho, I guess it's not totally impossible to think that these fellars could have something to do with Turkics. Or then they just are N1b Indo-Europeans, who knows.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N-M231

Wiki page for N is crap. It's either written by some angry wog, or pothead chinaman

[Pahli]

What is your opinion, are these remains IE?

There is a tendency in archaelogy (and linguistics) to claim pretty much everything from certain period in time and from certain kind of remains of flesh, blood, pots and culture as IE. There may be some uncertainty in this.

Perhaps these remains could actually represent the eastern expansion of Proto-Samoyeds from the west? Tho, I guess it's not totally impossible to think that these fellars could have something to do with Turkics. Or then they just are N1b Indo-Europeans, who knows.



Wiki page for N is crap. It's either written by some angry wog, or pothead chinaman

God knows where that haplogroup came from, either from Finno-Ugrics during Proto-Indo-Iranian migrations or from native Altaians. N wasn't common among Scythians anyway, dominantly R1a, along with J2 and G1.

[JBoscherville]

Those tattoos are gorgeous.

[Danishmend]

Uraloaltaic OWD agaaain? :picard2:

What's wrong? Are you not satisfied with the result? What does your reaction have to do with this thread?

[Pennywise]

What's wrong? Are you not satisfied with the result? What does your reaction have to do with this thread?

He gives the same reaction (and the same emoji) to almost every thread and post. This guy is clinically retard.

[Harkonnen]

whats the percentage of N1b in Turkish oghuz?

Mirza Muhammad Khan founder of Baku Khanate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku_Khanate) was N1b.

His grandson Abbasgulu Bakikhanov was a profilic thinker and writer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasgulu_Bakikhanov

http://www.visions.az/uploads/single_images/22_04_2016/bkx1.jpg

A.A. Bakikhanov (1794-1847) is one of the most distinctive thinkers among the great personalities of 19th century Azerbaijan. What makes him stand out from the other talented researchers of the period? First of all, this historian was a leading light of the Azerbaijani Enlightenment. He originated the idea of establishing secular schools. One of Bakikhanov’s most prominent features was the fact that he was not a believer in Providence. He was knowledgeable in both modern science and literature and the classical Eastern traditions. He skilfully analyzed the ideas of both Eastern and Western thinkers, thus his philosophical work comprised aspects of Eastern, Russian and European culture and philosophy.

Bakikhanov worked in the fields of archaeology, numismatics, and toponymy. He was the first historian to take an interest in undersea archaeology and his research revealed important new information. He is known primarily as a historian and his work Gulustan-i Iram took the study of history in Azerbaijan to a higher stage; this first detailed history of the country was the result of systematic and fruitful academic study. This work on the history of the South Caucasus was written in accordance with Western standards and is still regarded as an important piece of historical scholarship today. Because of its content and scientifically organised supporting evidence, it was appreciated both during Tsarist Russia and in the Soviet era. Even now it attracts the attention of foreign researchers and has been published in Russian, Persian and Azerbaijani several times over the years. It has also been translated into English and published by Willem Floor and Hasan Javadi under the title The Heavenly Rose-Garden: A History of Shirvan & Daghestan by Abbas Qoli Aqa Bakikhanov.

http://www.visions.az/en/news/429/e619be2c/

[johen]

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/FEATURES/CULTURE/PRINCESS-UKOK/tattoo%20on%20hand%20and%20with%20a%20drawing%20of %20dear.jpg


As far as I know, high elite scythian had tattoo. The queen's tattoo looks like reindeer, which might be connected with N1b.

see this scythian artifact, which the horse wore at that time.
http://www.horsenation.com/2015/02/09/the-first-women-warriors-on-horseback/
http://875357559f655c0fd9842374.eventingnation.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/hermitagepazyryk34a.jpg

[gültekin]

As far as I know, high elite scythian had tattoo. The queen's tattoo looks like reindeer, which might be connected with N1b.

see this scythian artifact, which the horse wore at that time.
http://www.horsenation.com/2015/02/09/the-first-women-warriors-on-horseback/
http://875357559f655c0fd9842374.eventingnation.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/hermitagepazyryk34a.jpg
How fascinating isn't? :) and totaly agree about reindeer, definitely a sign of north eurasians

[Rethel]

What is your opinion, are these remains IE?

Yes, but guy not :)



There is a tendency in archaelogy (and linguistics) to claim pretty much everything from certain period in time and from certain kind of remains of flesh, blood, pots and culture as IE. There may be some uncertainty in this.

Language and wares are a different thing - will never know for sure, what language they speak.


Wiki page for N is crap. It's either written by some angry wog, or pothead chinaman

:picard1:

Absorb and accept your Finchurian origin, like all finnocentrists did in the past.
Then you'll easier deal with reality.

[Rethel]

more like N1b reality

Reality, that guy existed.
None reality that he found himself in the wrong tribe.

[Harkonnen]

Yes, but guy not :)




Language and wares are a different thing - will never know for sure, what language they speak.





You fucking Polak Retard, you do understand your two answers contradict each other.

[gültekin]

Reality, that guy existed.
None reality that he found himself in the wrong tribe.
you sound very disappointed, i feel your pain deep in my heart :D
https://33.media.tumblr.com/37dac3db6d3bf5d5f83c184e862b38a0/tumblr_mw9yn49IQv1rci3bho1_500.gif

[Harkonnen]

As far as I know, high elite scythian had tattoo. The queen's tattoo looks like reindeer, which might be connected with N1b.

see this scythian artifact, which the horse wore at that time.
http://www.horsenation.com/2015/02/09/the-first-women-warriors-on-horseback/
http://875357559f655c0fd9842374.eventingnation.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/hermitagepazyryk34a.jpg

If the N1b is connected with Proto-Samoyedic expansion from Volga to Siberia, then there should be no reason to connect N1b with reindeer. As far as I know, there should be no reindeers in Volga, tho I might wrong. The natural habitat does probably boarder quite close to the proposed Uralic Urheimat. In any case there is no reconstructed proto-word for reindeer in Uralic, it rather seems to be loaned from IE at some point.

On the other hand reindeer, for some reason, does seem to be quite widespread in the whole scythian/sarmatian world. So in that sense, if that cultural package was also part of samoyedic early on. Then maybe.

[johen]

How fascinating isn't? :) and totaly agree about reindeer, definitely a sign of north eurasians

https://s12.postimg.org/sotpekpl9/Capture.png

https://books.google.ca/books?id=CnmPkEh2O7cC&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=archaeologically+scythian+start+9+century+tuva+ republic&source=bl&ots=wZBW5DsnGx&sig=YgzXHZTtCFPOciLpmlorsr4eFIk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjq0qW1x87PAhUQ_mMKHTIyCqUQ6AEIJjAB#v=on epage&q=archaeologically%20scythian%20start%209%20centur y%20tuva%20republic&f=false

[johen]

If the N1b is connected with Proto-Samoyedic expansion from Volga to Siberia, then there should be no reason to connect N1b with reindeer. As far as I know, there should be no reindeers in Volga, tho I might wrong. The natural habitat does probably boarder quite close to the proposed Uralic Urheimat. In any case there is no reconstructed proto-word for reindeer in Uralic, it rather seems to be loaned from IE at some point.

On the other hand reindeer, for some reason, does seem to be quite widespread in the whole scythian/sarmatian world. So in that sense, if that cultural package was also part of samoyedic early on. Then maybe.

I think N1b people migrated from central asia or manchu to volga siberia.

According to Eurogenes K-12 run we have the following admixture results from Altai:

Okunevo (3800 BP) RISE515, female mtDNA A8a: Nganasan 27%, Naxi 0%, European HG 16%, Afanasievo 30%, Atayal 5%, Pulliyar 0%, Chukchi 4%, Karitiana 18%

Karasuk (c. 1500-1000 BC) RISE497, female mtDNA A+152+16362: Nganasan 56%, Naxi 19%, European HG 0%, Afanasievo 11%, Atayal 0%, Pulliyar 0%, Chukchi 7%, Karitiana 7%

Iron Age Afontova Gora (c. 1000 BC) RISE554, male yDNa N-Y6503 (according to Genetiker), mtDNA F1b1b: Nganasan 58%, Naxi 0%, European HG 6%, Afanasievo 17%, Atayal 0%, Pulliyar 0%, Chukchi 8%, Karitiana 12%

Iron Age Altai RISE600, male yDNA Q1a1b-M25, mtDNA K2a5: Nganasan 25%, Naxi 2%, European HG 13%, Afanasievo 39%, Atayal 5%, Pulliyar 3%, Chukchi 6%, Karitiana 6%


Modern Altaian: Nganasan 34%, Naxi 36%, European HG 8%, Afanasievo 15%, Atayal 0%, Pulliyar 1%, Chukchi 1%, Bedouin 1,5%, Karitiana 2,6%

[jackrussell]

you sound very disappointed, i feel your pain deep in my heart :D
https://33.media.tumblr.com/37dac3db6d3bf5d5f83c184e862b38a0/tumblr_mw9yn49IQv1rci3bho1_500.gif

What's funnier is that the fact he doesn't even know what his ancestors practiced ;

Lechistan can't be free untill the Turks horses drink from river Oder .

http://media.dunyabulteni.net/haber/2014/03/06/dbd20f4b108be083050c2b33d559da30-1267357385.jpg

Lechistan was a -stan country too .

[Harkonnen]

I think N1b people migrated from central asia or manchu to volga siberia.

According to Eurogenes K-12 run we have the following admixture results from Altai:

Okunevo (3800 BP) RISE515, female mtDNA A8a: Nganasan 27%, Naxi 0%, European HG 16%, Afanasievo 30%, Atayal 5%, Pulliyar 0%, Chukchi 4%, Karitiana 18%

Karasuk (c. 1500-1000 BC) RISE497, female mtDNA A+152+16362: Nganasan 56%, Naxi 19%, European HG 0%, Afanasievo 11%, Atayal 0%, Pulliyar 0%, Chukchi 7%, Karitiana 7%

Iron Age Afontova Gora (c. 1000 BC) RISE554, male yDNa N-Y6503 (according to Genetiker), mtDNA F1b1b: Nganasan 58%, Naxi 0%, European HG 6%, Afanasievo 17%, Atayal 0%, Pulliyar 0%, Chukchi 8%, Karitiana 12%

Iron Age Altai RISE600, male yDNA Q1a1b-M25, mtDNA K2a5: Nganasan 25%, Naxi 2%, European HG 13%, Afanasievo 39%, Atayal 5%, Pulliyar 3%, Chukchi 6%, Karitiana 6%


Modern Altaian: Nganasan 34%, Naxi 36%, European HG 8%, Afanasievo 15%, Atayal 0%, Pulliyar 1%, Chukchi 1%, Bedouin 1,5%, Karitiana 2,6%

I don't understand the point of your post. For one there is no N1b in your results. The one N-Y6503 has 58% Nganasan which to me looks like some sort of older local North Siberian component. But it has 0% Naxi and Atayal, which obviously are the components which should signal Central Asia/Manchu. Or at least Manchu. Not completely sure in which way you now define Central Asia as ancestry.

To me it still looks that Siberian N1b has Volga-Ural origins. That is where the basal branches and highest diversity is situated. It also agrees with linguistic idea of Finno-Ugric migrations to Siberia.

N as a whole likely has a Central Asian origin tho. Difficult to say ;)

[Rethel]

You fucking Polak Retard, you do understand your two answers contradict each other.

Absolutly do not contradict.
The only possibilty it can seem
to you like that, is, that you do
not understand (or rather you
do not want to understand)
what I wrote.

[Rethel]

you sound very disappointed, i feel your pain deep in my heart :D

You wish. Absolutly not.

Your imagination about me is strange... very...
probabky you input in my picture your bizzare
ideas about the past. I can't be responseable
for your imagination.

[jackrussell]

You wish. Absolutly not.

Your imagination about me is strange... very...
probabky you input in my picture your bizzare
ideas about the past. I can't be responseable
for your imagination.

Your nation is going to be carved between Germany & Russians ; history always repeats itself .

Your IE dreams are just that ; Dreams which are about to turn into nightmares .

[Rethel]

Your nation is going to be carved between Germany & Russians ; history always repeats itself .

Your IE dreams are just that ; Dreams which are about to turn into nightmares .

:picard2:

Btw, Germans and Russians aren't IEs?

[Peterski]

So there is a Pazyryk-Baltic link as Old Prussians / East Prussians had some N1b (apart from N1c):

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1712-N1c-in-the-Balts&p=182151&viewfull=1#post182151

http://semargl.me/haplogroups/maps/171/

Check also YFull's entry for N1b: https://yfull.com/tree/N-L732/

The Old Prussian (most probably) subclade is L731: https://yfull.com/tree/N-L731/

YF03641 and YF02093 are Johann Groening and Stanley Drozdowski - both of them carriers of N1b.

[Peterski]

There was also R1a haplogroup in Pazyryk burials (see Keyser 2009):

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ironagedna.shtml

http://www.hamagmongol.narod.ru/library/keyser_2009_e.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24433901_Ancient_DNA_provides_new_insights_into_th e_history_of_South_Siberian_Kurgan_people

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19449030

[gültekin]

So there is a Pazyryk-Baltic link as Old Prussians / East Prussians had some N1b (apart from N1c):

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1712-N1c-in-the-Balts&p=182151&viewfull=1#post182151

http://semargl.me/haplogroups/maps/171/

Check also YFull's entry for N1b: https://yfull.com/tree/N-L732/

The Old Prussian (most probably) subclade is L731: https://yfull.com/tree/N-L731/

YF03641 and YF02093 are Johann Groening and Stanley Drozdowski - both of them carriers of N1b.
Good for this fellow Prussianified N's, nice try, but;
kıro,you didn't check out correctly, this line-subclades is not N1b but N1
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/N%20Russia%20%20DNA%20Project?iframe=yresults
And this line is Chinese-Vietnamese cluster :laugh:
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag150/Alex_Chartorisky/SNP-N-TREE_zpsf1e2qeea.jpg
At Y-tree, for your info :
https://yfull.com/tree/N-Y6374/ CHB means Chinese in Beijing
Now,

So there is a Pazyryk-Baltic link as Old Prussians
no,kıro. you also ignore y-search i guess ;), this fellows linking to P34 (N1b) and to his subclades members, you can checkout them also from FTDNA Project
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/N%20Russia%20%20DNA%20Project?iframe=yresults
https://s11.postimg.org/mvvu068ur/sakamatch.png.
The next pls...

[Peterski]

And this line is Chinese-Vietnamese cluster

These European samples of N1b belong to a very European-specific cluster.

European and Chinese clusters split from each other 5000-6000 years ago:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/printthread.php?t=2573&pp=10&page=170

Drozdowski & Groening had their TMRCA some 850 years ago, ca. 1150 AD.

This means that most probably both were descended from Old Prussians.

Remember that Prussians were conquered by crusaders in 1226-1283 AD.

[gültekin]

These European samples of N1b belong to a very European-specific cluster.

European and Chinese clusters split from each other 5000-6000 years ago:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/printthread.php?t=2573&pp=10&page=170

Drozdowski & Groening had their TMRCA some 850 years ago, ca. 1150 AD.

This means that most probably both were descended from Old Prussians.

Remember that Prussians were conquered by crusaders in 1226-1283 AD.
whatever, but its N1 not N1b. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/N%20Russia%20%20DNA%20Project?iframe=yresults
N1b is P43+ line

[zarzian]

You know things are fucked up When gultiken the village idiot becomes the in-house genetics expert. As I explained before, Scythians had some Asiatics amongst their ranks, when IE tribes dominated the steppes, most of the Mongoloid YDNA scaped to Esstern siberia, ethnogenesis of the Yakut has been by Original Turkic speaking N1 males marrying local siberian woman. These Male turkics escaped to Siberia when attacked by IE Caucasian males, but some of them remained as slaves, and this N sample from Pazyric tribe was most likely a slave or a descendent of one. Gultiken is descendent of long line of slaves.

[Rethel]

So there is a Pazyryk-Baltic link as Old Prussians / East Prussians had some N1b (apart from N1c):

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1712-N1c-in-the-Balts&p=182151&viewfull=1#post182151

http://semargl.me/haplogroups/maps/171/

Check also YFull's entry for N1b: https://yfull.com/tree/N-L732/

The Old Prussian (most probably) subclade is L731: https://yfull.com/tree/N-L731/

YF03641 and YF02093 are Johann Groening and Stanley Drozdowski - both of them carriers of N1b.

Ok, and?

[Proto-Shaman]

IE fuckfest :cool:

[Turkminator]

I don't understand the point of your post. For one there is no N1b in your results. The one N-Y6503 has 58% Nganasan which to me looks like some sort of older local North Siberian component. But it has 0% Naxi and Atayal, which obviously are the components which should signal Central Asia/Manchu. Or at least Manchu. Not completely sure in which way you now define Central Asia as ancestry.

To me it still looks that Siberian N1b has Volga-Ural origins. That is where the basal branches and highest diversity is situated. It also agrees with linguistic idea of Finno-Ugric migrations to Siberia.

N as a whole likely has a Central Asian origin tho. Difficult to say ;)

That would be new to me. Haplogroup N is derived from the initial group NO. It is believed to have originated in Southeast Asia about 15-20,000 years ago, that is emerged, during the Ice Age.

[Turkminator]

The predominant Turkic haplogroup is still R1a.

[Harkonnen]

That would be new to me. Haplogroup N is derived from the initial group NO. It is believed to have originated in Southeast Asia about 15-20,000 years ago, that is emerged, during the Ice Age.

We have ancient samples of NO:

40k Ust-Ishim from Siberia

35k+ Oase man from Romania.

Frankly, looking at the phylogeny it looks much more probable that QR (P) has ultimate Sout East Asian, or even Island South East Asian origin.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xIyCVSPSm3I/U5LqVD5nawI/AAAAAAAACsM/TEjs1OTRu7k/s1600/Karafet-Y-DNA-K-tree-annotated.png

As you can see R has a multitude of brother haplogroups which are confined to the SEA and Australasia region: M, S etc.

O on the hand looks more like a recent migrant from the North to the region. Ancient DNA confirms this conclusion which in my opinion could be drawn from the Karafet data. Remember R is phylogenetically closer to M and S, than N is to O.

http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.fi/2014/06/y-dna-macro-haplogroup-k-m526.html

[davai]

your modern day Royal Scythians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_of_Ostoja


The Ostoja Coat of Arms evolved from Sarmatian Tamga.[19] The dragon in Ostoja CoA refer to Sarmatian dragon that was used by Royal Sarmatians or Basileans that according to Strabo and Ptolemy lived in the area between Bessarabia and the lower Danube and are descendants of Royal Scythians.[20] This dragon have been adopted by Roman legions and used by Sarmatian Cataphracts. They were called Draconarius that carried a Draco.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Ostoja%20Clan/default.aspx?section=yresults

these rather belong to R.

Likewise, Iazyges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1szs%C3%A1g
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iazyges


In the 1st century AD, a Sarmatian tribe known as the Iazyges settled in this region.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Jaszsag/default.aspx?section=yresults

[Vm95]

Useless unless we see their face..

[Harkonnen]

You know things are fucked up When gultiken the village idiot becomes the in-house genetics expert. As I explained before, Scythians had some Asiatics amongst their ranks, when IE tribes dominated the steppes, most of the Mongoloid YDNA scaped to Esstern siberia, ethnogenesis of the Yakut has been by Original Turkic speaking N1 males marrying local siberian woman. These Male turkics escaped to Siberia when attacked by IE Caucasian males, but some of them remained as slaves, and this N sample from Pazyric tribe was most likely a slave or a descendent of one. Gultiken is descendent of long line of slaves.

You are just butthurt because those N1bs kept you swarthy iranoids as slaves for centuries.

It is a historic fact that N is the most alpha and least slavish haplogroup of all haplogroups,

[Harkonnen]

Useless unless we see their face..

If I'm not mistaken we are talking here about the famous Ukok Ice "Princess" ;) and the rest of "her" posse burials?

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/SCIENCE/Princess-Ukok-face-restored/inside%20face%20alone.jpg

[Rethel]

You are just butthurt because those N1bs kept you swarthy iranoids as slaves for centuries.

It is a historic fact that N is the most alpha and least slavish haplogroup of all haplogroups,

:picard2:

[gültekin]

Qyros crying :( why are they N1b WHY bohooooo

[Pahli]

Qyros crying :( why are they N1b WHY bohooooo

Welcome to my OWD signature, how can I help you? :)

[gültekin]

Welcome to my OWD signature, how can I help you? :)
i see only a butthurt imbecile posting here , like always :) welcome. is N1B qyro?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

we wuz scythians n shiet

[Pahli]

i see only a butthurt imbecile posting here , like always :) welcome. is N1B qyro?

I'm just exposing your OWD, thank me later :)

What happened to THE VOICE OF SCYTHIA? Did you get embarrassed? :laugh:

[gültekin]

we wuz scythians n shiet
they are iranics, iranics have 0% N1b, but they are iranics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6F1X7Df7PQ
Qyro powo :D

[gültekin]

I'm just exposing your OWD, thank me later :)

What happened to THE VOICE OF SCYTHIA? Did you get embarrassed? :laugh:
i prefer you this avatar which better fits to your Scythian heritage
http://s33.postimg.org/6031zqhlb/image_php_u_6934_dateline_1465649570_type_thumb.jp g

[meisje]

i prefer you this avatar which better fits to your Scythian heritage
http://s33.postimg.org/6031zqhlb/image_php_u_6934_dateline_1465649570_type_thumb.jp g

LEL, Kirtler are Scythians

http://galeri.uludagsozluk.com/40/yere-balgam-tukuren-tek-kasli-anadolulu-genc_93172.jpg

[gültekin]

LEL, Kirtler are Scythians

http://galeri.uludagsozluk.com/40/yere-balgam-tukuren-tek-kasli-anadolulu-genc_93172.jpg
looks very angry, is he N1b?

[Babak]

LEL, Kirtler are Scythians

http://galeri.uludagsozluk.com/40/yere-balgam-tukuren-tek-kasli-anadolulu-genc_93172.jpg


his brother
https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5005/5336019060_92b0947426.jpg

[gültekin]

his brother
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=17113&dateline=1477955336
http://galeri.uludagsozluk.com/40/yere-balgam-tukuren-tek-kasli-anadolulu-genc_93172.jpg
you to look like you could twins, is that your brother

[meisje]

looks very angry, is he N1b?

Another Assyroid Kıro who pretends to be Aryan:cool:

[1,] "Kurd" "0"
[2,] "78.4% Assyrian_Arzni + 21.6% Kalash" "2.1548"
[3,] "9.5% Kakheti + 90.5% Kurd_East" "2.6529"
[4,] "7.4% Abkhasian + 92.6% Kurd_East" "2.6875"
[5,] "7.4% Georgian + 92.6% Kurd_East" "2.6878"
[6,] "30.4% Baku_WGA + 69.6% Kurd_East" "2.7011"
[7,] "6.8% Georgian_Megrelia + 93.2% Kurd_East" "2.72"
[8,] "7.1% Adjara + 92.9% Kurd_East" "2.7202"
[9,] "15.4% Azeri_Dagestan + 84.6% Kurd_East" "2.7302"
[10,] "6.6% Georgian_Svan + 93.4% Kurd_East" "2.737"

[gültekin]

Another Assyroid Kıro who pretends to be Aryan:cool:

[1,] "Kurd" "0"
[2,] "78.4% Assyrian_Arzni + 21.6% Kalash" "2.1548"
[3,] "9.5% Kakheti + 90.5% Kurd_East" "2.6529"
[4,] "7.4% Abkhasian + 92.6% Kurd_East" "2.6875"
[5,] "7.4% Georgian + 92.6% Kurd_East" "2.6878"
[6,] "30.4% Baku_WGA + 69.6% Kurd_East" "2.7011"
[7,] "6.8% Georgian_Megrelia + 93.2% Kurd_East" "2.72"
[8,] "7.1% Adjara + 92.9% Kurd_East" "2.7202"
[9,] "15.4% Azeri_Dagestan + 84.6% Kurd_East" "2.7302"
[10,] "6.6% Georgian_Svan + 93.4% Kurd_East" "2.737"
interesting that kurds can get in some way caucasus, while persians score signifant negroid SSA. both companent has nothing to do with being indo-aryan of course

[Myanthropologies]

they are iranics, iranics have 0% N1b, but they are iranics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6F1X7Df7PQ
Qyro powo :D

It doesn't matter. You can look at eurogenes, you can look at the latest Lazaridis paper. Pashtuns, Pamiris, and Tajiks have 50-60% of their ancestry from Scythians, Turks do not.

[Pahli]

interesting that kurds can get in some way caucasus, while persians score signifant negroid SSA. both companent has nothing to do with being indo-aryan of course

Y-DNA: N1b-VL67 Scythian
mtDNA: H1a3 (Estonia)

At least I don't OWD :laugh:

[Myanthropologies]

Lol why do people care so much about Scythians?

[gültekin]

It doesn't matter. You can look at eurogenes, you can look at the Kate st Lazaridis paper, Pashtuns, Pamiris, and Tajiks have 50-60% of their ancestry from Scythians, Turks do not.
Pazyryk is N1b. good by

[Babak]

Lol why do people care so much about Scythians?

show us your passport you koon

http://i.dawn.com/large/2015/09/560382579575d.jpg

[Myanthropologies]

show us your passport you koon

http://i.dawn.com/large/2015/09/560382579575d.jpg

Stop trolling, it's getting old man.

[gültekin]

Y-DNA: N1b-VL67 Scythian
mtDNA: H1a3 (Estonia)

At least I don't OWD :laugh:
why you keep posting my results? are you realy that imbecile or is this behaviour of yours a result of the inbreeding legacy of kurds ?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/images/thumbs/060308_all_fours_170.jpg
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0308_060308_all_fours.html

[gültekin]

whatever guys, just again for autistic inbreed idiots. Pazyryk is N1b, means they aren't iranic in no way. now fuck off, or keep your shitpost while suffer of butthurt.
what ever :bored:

[Pahli]

whatever guys, just again for autistic inbreed idiots. Pazyryk is N1b, means they aren't iranic in no way. now fuck off, or keep your shitpost while suffer of butthurt.
what ever :bored:

You're 40 and act like 12, consider who is autistic here my stupid old friend :)

And Y-DNA doesn't determine ethnicity you idiot. That would mean most Anatolian Turks aren't Turks :)

[gültekin]

You're 40 and act like 12, consider who is autistic here my stupid old friend :)

And Y-DNA doesn't determine ethnicity you idiot. That would mean most Anatolian Turks aren't Turks :)
har har har , your kind were shits in any opportunity including YOU with a big arse of parasitical habit about Pazyryk,in any corner of internet, and now you afraid when its turns to the reality :D now we came toabout "BOT YO-DONODO DOSONT DOTORMONO OTHNOcOTYYY FOCKKKK
is hard to come back to reality, isn't ? you parasitic populations always need to something which is better then you, but this is not the one you can use.
as a refuge you should understand me very well

[gültekin]

whatever guys, just again for autistic inbreed idiots. Pazyryk is N1b, means they aren't iranic in no way. now fuck off, or keep your shitpost while suffer of butthurt.
what ever :bored:
have a nice night, and dont give up to shitposting butthurt qyros:D

[Halgurd]

Lol why do people care so much about Scythians?

ikr, basically an irrelevent people in history and Turks are fighting over them :laugh:

[Kamal900]

Lol why do people care so much about Scythians?

Because they're awesome, lol. But seriously, I think the scythians are a very interesting ancient people, and that today's eastern Iranic peoples are the closest to them genetically.

[Kamal900]

whatever guys, just again for autistic inbreed idiots. Pazyryk is N1b, means they aren't iranic in no way. now fuck off, or keep your shitpost while suffer of butthurt.
what ever :bored:

They are Iranic, and it doesn't matter what haplogroups they can belong to because being Iranic is not based on genetic or racial grounds. The only people who can claim the Scythians are the modern day Ossetians.

[gültekin]

Because they're awesome, lol. But seriously, I think the scythians are a very interesting ancient people, and that today's eastern Iranic peoples are the closest to them genetically.

Pazyryk is N1b. good by
update your selve, you must to say that they are basically an irrelevant people in history :D

[Sacrificed Ram]

N1b doesn't make Pazyrik turkics, like C doesn't make Andronovo mongols.

[gültekin]

N1b doesn't make Pazyrik turkics, like C doesn't make Andronovo mongols.
that subclade cares only Turkics. and makes them not iranic for sure. N-P34 is such a hablo for your know

[Myanthropologies]

whatever guys, just again for autistic inbreed idiots. Pazyryk is N1b, means they aren't iranic in no way. now fuck off, or keep your shitpost while suffer of butthurt.
what ever :bored:

Yes Scythians were so Turkic that they even spoke Turkic languages and that every single turk, even if they live in between Iran, Greece, Arabs, and the Caucasus, or if they live in russia are the same & all come from Scythians. Fight to claim your long dead, rotting, decomposed bretheren.

[Myanthropologies]

They are Iranic, and it doesn't matter what haplogroups they can belong to because being Iranic is not based on genetic or racial grounds. The only people who can claim the Scythians are the modern day Ossetians.

No, the Ossetians descend from the Alans. According to the recent Lazaridis paper, Pamiris, Pashtuns, and Tajiks have 50-60% of their ancestry coming from Scythians. Ossetians have nothing to with Scythians. They came from a similar group called the Alans though. If anyone, only eastern iranics can claim Scythians, but they still shouldn't because that sounds just as dumb as randomguy calling himself an Aramean.

[Sacrificed Ram]

that subclade cares only Turkics. and makes them not iranic for sure. N-P34 is such a hablo for your know

The C y-haplogroup in Andronovo also appears be an exclusive clade of them.

[Pahli]

The C y-haplogroup in Andronovo also appears be an exclusive clade of them.

Clade or not Y-DNA does not determine ethnicity and only ancestry.

[gültekin]

Clade or not Y-DNA does not determine ethnicity and only ancestry.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=13790&dateline=1479065445

[Pahli]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=13790&dateline=1479065445

ANDID + ANGRY NEGRITO BWAHAHAHHA!

[Pennywise]

The C y-haplogroup in Andronovo also appears be an exclusive clade of them.

Scythians weren't Turkic true. But surely they had nothing to do with Kurds or Pashthuns either. You're missing the point here.

[Pahli]

Scythians weren't Turkic true. But surely they had nothing to do with Kurds or Pashthuns either. You're missing the point here.

While they barely had anything to do with Kurds, they spoke a language probably similar to that of Pashto and other East Iranian languages in Central Asia, but genetically they have much more in common with the East Iranians of Central Asia, people like Pamiris and Yaghnobis and to a lesser extent with Pashtos.

[Hadouken]

Scythians weren't Turkic true. But surely they had nothing to do with Kurds

is I scythian ? *_* :o



0.01% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
5.52% East_Asian
44.48% Iran_Neolithic
36.73% Natufian
12.84% WHG
0.42% Sub_Saharan


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Azeri @ 2.845187
2 Iranian @ 5.785986
3 Iran_recent @ 6.372158
4 Georgian @ 7.182028
5 Adygei @ 7.228666
6 Iran_Lori @ 7.839803
7 Iran_Shirazi @ 8.302688
8 Balkar @ 8.510266
9 Kurd_C @ 8.690129
10 Kumyk @ 9.352416
11 Turkish @ 9.367068
12 Chechen @ 9.590785
13 Kurd_F @ 10.517959
14 Assyrian @ 10.922697
15 Armenia_ChL @ 12.193517
16 Lezgin @ 12.264173
17 Jew_Iranian @ 12.86719
18 Iran_Mazandaran @ 14.296235
19 Jew_iraqi @ 14.462798
20 Syrian @ 15.29607
138 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Kurd_F+Turkish @ 2.47658
2 Balkar+Georgian @ 2.542217
3 Balkar+Iran_Lori @ 2.788963
4 Azeri+Azeri @ 2.845187
5 Iran_Lori+Turkish @ 3.007033
6 Assyrian+Balkar @ 3.045802
7 Iran_Mazandaran+Turkish @ 3.180446
8 Iran_Shirazi+Turkish @ 3.241312
9 Adygei+Azeri @ 3.301214
10 Azeri+Georgian @ 3.361077
11 Balkar+Iran_recent @ 3.373847
12 Iran_recent+Turkish @ 3.463118
13 Kurd_C+Turkish @ 3.509115
14 Adygei+Iran_Lori @ 3.678053
15 Azeri+Iran_recent @ 3.718795
16 Iranian+Turkish @ 3.847189
17 Azeri+Iranian @ 3.902515
18 Assyrian+Kumyk @ 3.90599
19 Balkar+Kurd_F @ 3.946719
20 Balkar+Kurd_C @ 3.982401
9591 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Azeri +25% Balkar +25% Georgian @ 1.283674
2 50% Azeri +25% Adygei +25% Georgian @ 1.479419
3 50% Balkar +25% Assyrian +25% Iran_Lori @ 1.569977
4 50% Balkar +25% Iran_ChL +25% Turkish @ 1.657047
5 50% Balkar +25% Assyrian +25% Kurd_F @ 1.680318
6 50% Balkar +25% Jew_Iranian +25% Kurd_F @ 1.745561
7 50% Azeri +25% Assyrian +25% Kumyk @ 1.746746
8 50% Iran_Lori +25% Balkar +25% Turkish @ 1.757268
9 50% Azeri +25% Georgian +25% Kumyk @ 1.762918
10 50% Balkar +25% Jew_iraqi +25% Kurd_F @ 1.78798
11 50% Azeri +25% Adygei +25% Assyrian @ 1.845528
12 50% Azeri +25% Assyrian +25% Chechen @ 1.849395
13 50% Balkar +25% Iran_Lori +25% Jew_Iranian @ 1.85237
14 50% Azeri +25% Assyrian +25% Balkar @ 1.866221
15 50% Turkish +25% Iran_ChL +25% Lezgin @ 1.90293
16 50% Georgian +25% Azeri +25% Balkar @ 1.938328
17 50% Azeri +25% Assyrian +25% Lezgin @ 1.973824
18 50% Balkar +25% Iran_Mazandaran +25% Jew_iraqi @ 2.009995
19 50% Balkar +25% Iran_Lori +25% Jew_iraqi @ 2.027866
20 50% Iran_Lori +25% Adygei +25% Turkish @ 2.033817
735836 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Azeri+Iran_LN+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 1.022987
2 Azeri+Iran_N+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 1.022987
3 Azeri+Iran_N_WC1+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 1.022987
4 Azeri+Azeri+Balkar+Georgian @ 1.283674
5 Adygei+Azeri+Azeri+Georgian @ 1.479419
6 Adygei+Balkar+Iran_ChL+Turkish @ 1.524146
7 Assyrian+Balkar+Balkar+Iran_Lori @ 1.569977
8 Balkar+Balkar+Iran_ChL+Turkish @ 1.657047
9 Assyrian+Balkar+Balkar+Kurd_F @ 1.680318
10 Adygei+Azeri+Kurd_F+Turkish @ 1.73028
11 Balkar+Balkar+Jew_Iranian+Kurd_F @ 1.745561
12 Assyrian+Azeri+Azeri+Kumyk @ 1.746746
13 Balkar+Georgian+Kurd_F+Turkish @ 1.752518
14 Balkar+Iran_Lori+Iran_Lori+Turkish @ 1.757268
15 Azeri+Azeri+Georgian+Kumyk @ 1.762918
16 Balkar+Balkar+Jew_iraqi+Kurd_F @ 1.78798
17 Adygei+Assyrian+Azeri+Azeri @ 1.845528
18 Assyrian+Azeri+Azeri+Chechen @ 1.849395
19 Balkar+Balkar+Iran_Lori+Jew_Iranian @ 1.85237
20 Assyrian+Azeri+Azeri+Balkar @ 1.866221
21 Balkar+Iran_Lori+Kurd_F+Turkish @ 1.890985
22 Adygei+Azeri+Iran_Lori+Turkish @ 1.902175
23 Iran_ChL+Lezgin+Turkish+Turkish @ 1.90293
24 Balkar+Iran_ChL+Kumyk+Turkish @ 1.907646
25 Assyrian+Balkar+Iran_Mazandaran+Turkish @ 1.915955
26 Azeri+Balkar+Georgian+Georgian @ 1.938328
27 Balkar+Georgian+Iran_Lori+Turkish @ 1.940426
28 Assyrian+Azeri+Azeri+Lezgin @ 1.973824
29 Azeri+Balkar+Georgian+Iran_recent @ 1.997876
30 Balkar+Georgian+Iran_Mazandaran+Turkish @ 1.999449
31 Balkar+Balkar+Iran_Mazandaran+Jew_iraqi @ 2.009995
32 Azeri+Balkar+Georgian+Iran_Lori @ 2.012929
33 Balkar+Balkar+Iran_Lori+Jew_iraqi @ 2.027866
34 Adygei+Iran_Lori+Iran_Lori+Turkish @ 2.033817
35 Iran_LN+Iranian+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 2.039475
36 Iran_N+Iranian+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 2.039475
37 Iran_N_WC1+Iranian+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 2.039475
38 Chechen+Iran_ChL+Turkish+Turkish @ 2.04039
39 Balkar+Iran_Lori+Iran_recent+Turkish @ 2.052281
40 Azeri+Balkar+Kurd_F+Turkish @ 2.058335
2914457 iterations.


Gaussian method.
Noise dispersion set to 0.93416

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Adygei @ 5.86467
2 Azeri @ 6.104235
3 Balkar @ 6.853621
4 Kumyk @ 7.316166
5 Turkish @ 7.439146
6 Chechen @ 7.481958
7 Iranian @ 7.996172
8 Iran_Lori @ 8.30758
9 Lezgin @ 8.737429
10 Iran_Shirazi @ 8.87545
11 Iran_recent @ 8.888036
12 Kurd_C @ 9.424941
13 Kurd_F @ 10.117921
14 Iran_Mazandaran @ 10.616093
15 Armenia_ChL @ 12.002786
16 Cypriot @ 12.455083
17 Syrian @ 12.483703
18 Lebanese @ 13.047625
19 Assyrian @ 13.227414
20 Georgian @ 13.363928
138 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Balkar+Georgian @ 4.321476
2 Assyrian+Balkar @ 5.160832
3 Azeri+Georgian @ 5.274804
4 Georgian+Turkish @ 5.335633
5 Adygei+Azeri @ 5.393008
6 Azeri+Chechen @ 5.749504
7 Balkar+Iran_Lori @ 5.769505
8 Balkar+Jew_Iranian @ 5.836295
9 Adygei+Georgian @ 5.840987
10 Balkar+Kurd_F @ 5.847415
11 Adygei+Adygei @ 5.86467
12 Azeri+Lezgin @ 5.905861
13 Adygei+Iran_Lori @ 5.971534
14 Azeri+Balkar @ 6.024801
15 Azeri+Kumyk @ 6.027057
16 Kurd_F+Turkish @ 6.034377
17 Adygei+Turkish @ 6.10229
18 Azeri+Azeri @ 6.104235
19 Balkar+Jew_iraqi @ 6.107076
20 Iran_Lori+Turkish @ 6.123708
9591 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Balkar +25% Anatolia_N +25% Iran_LN @ 4.157254
2 50% Balkar +25% Anatolia_N +25% Iran_N @ 4.157254
3 50% Balkar +25% Anatolia_N +25% Iran_N_WC1 @ 4.157254
4 50% Balkar +25% Georgian +25% Georgian @ 4.321476
5 50% Georgian +25% Azeri +25% Balkar @ 4.615697
6 50% Balkar +25% Assyrian +25% Georgian @ 4.71153
7 50% Georgian +25% Balkar +25% Turkish @ 4.726997
8 50% Georgian +25% Adygei +25% Balkar @ 4.748647
9 50% Balkar +25% Europe_EN +25% Iran_LN @ 4.810167
10 50% Balkar +25% Europe_EN +25% Iran_N @ 4.810167
11 50% Balkar +25% Europe_EN +25% Iran_N_WC1 @ 4.810167
12 50% Balkar +25% Iran_LN +25% Natufian @ 4.860004
13 50% Balkar +25% Iran_N +25% Natufian @ 4.860004
14 50% Balkar +25% Iran_N_WC1 +25% Natufian @ 4.860004
15 50% Adygei +25% Azeri +25% Georgian @ 4.913115
16 50% Azeri +25% Adygei +25% Georgian @ 4.930913
17 50% Adygei +25% Balkar +25% Georgian @ 4.992563
18 50% Balkar +25% Azeri +25% Georgian @ 5.015001
19 50% Balkar +25% Adygei +25% Georgian @ 5.024513
20 50% Turkish +25% Anatolia_N +25% Iran_LN @ 5.032902
1178166 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Anatolia_N+Balkar+Balkar+Iran_LN @ 4.157254
2 Anatolia_N+Balkar+Balkar+Iran_N @ 4.157254
3 Anatolia_N+Balkar+Balkar+Iran_N_WC1 @ 4.157254
4 Adygei+Iran_LN+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.172797
5 Adygei+Iran_N+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.172797
6 Adygei+Iran_N_WC1+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.172797
7 Georgian+Iran_LN+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.189182
8 Georgian+Iran_N+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.189182
9 Georgian+Iran_N_WC1+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.189182
10 Balkar+Iran_LN+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.241347
11 Balkar+Iran_N+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.241347
12 Balkar+Iran_N_WC1+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.241347
13 Balkar+Balkar+Georgian+Georgian @ 4.321476
14 Azeri+Iran_LN+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.325608
15 Azeri+Iran_N+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.325608
16 Azeri+Iran_N_WC1+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.325608
17 Anatolia_N+Balkar+Iran_LN+Turkish @ 4.465761
18 Anatolia_N+Balkar+Iran_N+Turkish @ 4.465761
19 Anatolia_N+Balkar+Iran_N_WC1+Turkish @ 4.465761
20 Iran_LN+Natufian+Scythian_IA+Turkish @ 4.484699
21 Iran_N+Natufian+Scythian_IA+Turkish @ 4.484699
22 Iran_N_WC1+Natufian+Scythian_IA+Turkish @ 4.484699
23 Chechen+Iran_LN+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.542407
24 Chechen+Iran_N+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.542407
25 Chechen+Iran_N_WC1+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.542407
26 Iran_LN+Lezgin+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.595298
27 Iran_N+Lezgin+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.595298
28 Iran_N_WC1+Lezgin+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.595298
29 Azeri+Balkar+Georgian+Georgian @ 4.615697
30 Iran_LN+Kumyk+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.629146
31 Iran_N+Kumyk+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.629146
32 Iran_N_WC1+Kumyk+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.629146
33 Adygei+Anatolia_N+Balkar+Iran_LN @ 4.661494
34 Adygei+Anatolia_N+Balkar+Iran_N @ 4.661494
35 Adygei+Anatolia_N+Balkar+Iran_N_WC1 @ 4.661494
36 Assyrian+Balkar+Balkar+Georgian @ 4.71153
37 Balkar+Georgian+Georgian+Turkish @ 4.726997
38 Assyrian+Iran_LN+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.72862
39 Assyrian+Iran_N+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.72862
40 Assyrian+Iran_N_WC1+Natufian+Scythian_IA @ 4.72862

[Pennywise]

While they barely had anything to do with Kurds, they spoke a language probably similar to that of Pashto and other East Iranian languages in Central Asia, but genetically they have much more in common with the East Iranians of Central Asia, people like Pamiris and Yaghnobis and to a lesser extent with Pashtos.

Sycthians were diverse, there are several Scythian samples that closer to modern Turkic populations. Aside from the genetics, Turkic peoples are culturally the only and the true successors of them. Get over it. But I agree that in this year it's really getting boring to insistantly claim that Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans, Massagets were Turkic. It's been already debunked a half century ago.

[Rethel]

is I scythian ? *_* :o

No. Are you?

[Pahli]

Sycthians were diverse, there are several Scythian samples that closer to modern Turkic populations. Aside from the genetics, Turkic peoples are culturally the only and the true successors of them. Get over it. But I agree that in this year it's really getting boring insistantly claim that Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans, Massagets were Turkic. It's been already debunked a half century ago.

No doubt that Turkic people took over the Steppes from the Iranic nomads and obviously have some admixture from these people, including cultural influence. Not going to deny that.

[Kamal900]

No, the Ossetians descend from the Alans. According to the recent Lazaridis paper, Pamiris, Pashtuns, and Tajiks have 50-60% of their ancestry coming from Scythians. Ossetians have nothing to with Scythians. They came from a similar group called the Alans though. If anyone, only eastern iranics can claim Scythians, but they still shouldn't because that sounds just as dumb as randomguy calling himself an Aramean.

Well, the Alans are descended from the Sarmatians which are descended from the Scythians. Anyway, yeah, it's actually mentally retarded to claim or identify with an ethnicity like were ancient and long gone like what randomguy is doing which is beyond pathetic.

[Norka]

Sycthians were diverse, there are several Scythian samples that closer to modern Turkic populations. Aside from the genetics, Turkic peoples are culturally the only and the true successors of them. Get over it. But I agree that in this year it's really getting boring to insistantly claim that Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans, Massagets were Turkic. It's been already debunked a half century ago.

Sarmatians were a mix of Finno-Ugrics as well.

[War Chef]

Azov Greeks might have some Scythian ancestry

[Babak]

Well, the Alans are descended from the Sarmatians which are descended from the Scythians. Anyway, yeah, it's actually mentally retarded to claim or identify with an ethnicity like were ancient and long gone like what randomguy is doing which is beyond pathetic.

look man, im an azerbaijani TURK. if i want to identify as one, then i will

[Rethel]

Sarmatians were a mix of Finno-Ugrics as well.

:picard2:

[LoLeL]

Scythia was a large region and many different tribes/groups labeled as Scythian in history. From Wikipedia article:


The term Scythian, like Cimmerian, was used to refer to a variety of groups from the Black Sea to southern Siberia and central Asia. "They were not a specific people", but rather variety of peoples "referred to at variety of times in history, and in several places, none of which was their original homeland."
K Kristiansen. Europe Before History. Cambridge University Press. 1998, p 193

Bunch of nomadic mongrels and barbarians. People worship these so-called Scythians but hate similar groups like Huns. I prefer to be a Black African (100% Negro) rather than a Scythian Gypsy. Why you guys are obsessed with them? Just read some history books and see how historians described those savage tribes and their behavior/culture.

[Pahli]

Sarmatians were a mix of Finno-Ugrics as well.

A Scythian tribe named Budini that once lived in Northern Ukraine / South Belarus are believed to be Finno-Ugric, but its hard to prove.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Sarmatians were a mix of Finno-Ugrics as well.

Most easy Sarmatians be Yeneseians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniseian_languages) influenced due their much eastern origin.

[gültekin]

While they barely had anything to do with Kurds, they spoke a language probably similar to that of Pashto and other East Iranian languages in Central Asia, but genetically they have much more in common with the East Iranians of Central Asia, people like Pamiris and Yaghnobis and to a lesser extent with Pashtos.
N's dont speak this languages

[johen]

Tocharians were R1a. Problem is where the R1a came from. looks like from neolithic Altai R1a1 who were always w/ Q1a2 indians.
R1a1 and Q1a2 were always together in East from Neolithic to bronze. Even in Khvalynsk culture in west.(!!!!)


Individuals from Lokomotiv and Shamanka II were found to possess haplogroups K, R1a1 and C3, and individuals from Ust’-Ida and Kurma XI were found to belong to haplogroups Q, K and unidentified SNP (L914). For those individuals belonging to haplogroup Q, further experimentation to examine sub-haplogroups of Q revealed that these individuals belong to sub-haplogroup Q1a3

Q1a3 is currently Q1a2: http://en.rfwiki.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M25_(Y-DNA)


Hollard et al., Strong genetic admixture in the Altai at the Middle Bronze Age

In the same way, the patrilineal gene pool revealed the presence of different haplogroups (Q1a2a1-L54, R1a1a1b2-Z93 and C),


- Anthrologist C. Brace also mentioned that mongol bronze crania specimen be close to Native american

Mongolia is a long way east of any of the other samples used, but it has previously been shown that the Mongolian Bronze Age sample is unrelated to modern Mongols and has more in common with prehistoric Europeans and the Native Americans of the United States-Canada border.


==> original scythian R1a1, who spoke Indo-European, were also Altai natives


original Scythian who were from Altai-Pazyryk kurgan were N1b-P34, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk_culture
and lol about this they "spoke" Indo-European



Right, that is a good argument. I don't still know the relationship between N1b and R1a.
However, Pazyryk scythian and western scythian had Q1a2 culture also:


"GORNO-ALTAISK, RUSSIA—The Siberian Timesreports that a 2,500-year-old grave from the Pazyryk culture has been found in the Altai Mountains. The grave was looted in antiquity, but still contained the remains of an adult and a child or teenager, who had been buried with two small bronze mirrors, ceramics, gold foil, and wearing fur garments. Their heads, however, had been removed and placed at their knees. Nikita Konstantinov of Gorno-Altaisk State University said the Pazyryks often buried defeated enemies without their heads, since they made the skulls into bowls. “But this is obviously a different case,” he said. It is possible that the heads were detached when the grave was looted, but the rest of the skeletons remained undisturbed. Konstantinov and his team will try to determine the age and sex of the skeletons, and study the cervical vertebrae to try to learn more about how the heads were removed. “We have no similar cases, so we need to investigate this one very thoroughly,” he said. "


A 3,000 year-old village discovered in central California has been found to contain an unusual set of burials — with more than a half dozen individuals buried without their heads, and nearly as many others buried intact, with an extra skull by their side.
In two of the graves, the crowns of the severed skulls had even been fashioned into smooth, polished bowls
http://westerndigs.org/severed-heads-skull-bowls-found-in-california-graves-were-tributes-not-war-trophies-study-finds/


According to Herodotus' Histories, Scythians killed their enemies and made their skulls into drinking cups.

And looks like IE language spread from the lake baikal to Europe, especially Khvalynsk culture and middle East, especially, 4,000bc Anatolian.
https://s32.postimg.org/icxxjzfqt/Capture.png

[johen]

Kurd people have old scythian tradition of the following dance, which looks like american indian bird dance. Is there someone to explain the traditional kurd dance?

Scythian Origin of the Kurds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6F1X7Df7PQ
https://s17.postimg.org/q7loignr3/Capture.png

http://thexfrontrange.com/files/2012/06/native-american-rain-dance-600x630.jpg

[johen]

Pazyryk hairstyle looks like american indian bird hair style. Does someone explain about Pazyryk hairstlye?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/PazyrikHorseman.JPG

american indian mohawk hairstyle
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Short_Mohawk.jpg

http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/wp-content/uploads/files/2012/April/MAIC_HULU_2012_05.jpg

[Governor]

Pazyryk hairstyle looks like american indian bird hair style. Does someone explain about Pazyryk hairstlye?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/PazyrikHorseman.JPG

american indian mohawk hairstyle
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Short_Mohawk.jpg

http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/wp-content/uploads/files/2012/April/MAIC_HULU_2012_05.jpg

In the first picture, the horse rider exactly looks like Iranian.

[Pennywise]

Kurd people have old scythian tradition of the following dance, which looks like american indian bird dance. Is there someone to explain the traditional kurd dance?

Scythian Origin of the Kurds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6F1X7Df7PQ
https://s17.postimg.org/q7loignr3/Capture.png

http://thexfrontrange.com/files/2012/06/native-american-rain-dance-600x630.jpg



http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/2b/2bd9e50c8296cd95ae79c638fbddbf39411629fef6ec30d6bc 0a3221f0f016b1.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

In the first picture, the horse rider exactly looks like Iranian.

the problem is that his hair style is Turkic, not Iranian.

[Governor]

the problem is that his hair style is Turkic, not Iranian.

Well, i said what i saw in the picture, especially the facial features of that horse rider looks like Caucasian.

[Proto-Shaman]

Well, i said what i saw in the picture, especially the facial features of that horse rider looks like Caucasian.
which is hardly different from Gokturk and Hephtalite Turkic rulers.

[johen]

In the first picture, the horse rider exactly looks like Iranian.

Culturally, hairstyle was so important. I think hairstyle meant ethnicity, or assimilation or obedience. That is why foreign invader changed the hairstyle of locals. Moreover, Nomad people didn't care about their ethnicity. Stealing women is just a their routine job, hence their phenotypes and genotypes were changed. However, they kept their tradition. I think we should find their identity in the above mentioned culture.

Avar people's hair stlye.
http://kurultaj.hu/wp-content/uploads/a1-625x420.jpg

- the hairstyle of Maygar was a little different.
Maygar people shaved their head except three long braids. you can see the braids of maygar horseman also.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=dvV...20long&f=false
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Rajzom.JPG

- And that traditions continued recently:

Traditional Slavic Hair Styles: http://www.slavorum.org/forum/discus...ale-and-female
http://www.slovacivosvete.sk/data/att/525_obr.jpg

Yazidi man with plaited hair. Northern Iraq:
https://s12.postimg.org/oj0m25yp9/abc.jpg

===> They were all central asian hairstyles including west and east scythians. You live in Canada, you can get a picture of where whole hairstyles came from.

===> maybe, 5,000y ago Indoeuroepan also had one of the hairstyles.

[johen]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/2b/2bd9e50c8296cd95ae79c638fbddbf39411629fef6ec30d6bc 0a3221f0f016b1.jpg

what is so funny? I am looking for scythian tradition, especially original central asia culture. I don't care about ethnicity. Scythian were crossing caucasus mountain to defeat Assyrian empire, so they can have had scythian culture until now.

[johen]

I think Pazyryk Scythians Y-Dna N1b originated in NO of okunevo.


Afanasevo Culture, 3600-2600 BC
R1b1a2-M269, R1b1a2-M269, R1b1a(xR1b1a1 M73)

Bol'shemysskaya Culture. Eneolithic.
R1b1a2-M269

Okunevo Culture, 2300-1800 BC
NO(xO), NO(xO), NO(xO), Q1a3a-L54, Q1a3-M346(xL54), R1b1a2-M269.

Munkh-Khairkhan Culture, 1700-1400 BC
NO(xO), NO(xO)

Sagsai Culture, 1400-900 BC
Q1a3a-L54, Q1a3a-L54, Q1a3a-L54, R1a-Z93, R1a-Z93, R1a-Z93, C-M130


The Late Scythian population considered in this study proved to be genetically homogeneous, although some connections with the Sarmatians were found. We also revealed similarities between the Scythian groups and the local Bronze Age population of the Srubnaya culture, as well as, to a lesser extent, a group representative of the Central Asian Bronze Age Okunevo culture.


Craniometrically, prehistoric populations of Gorny Altai are mostly intermediate between Mongoloid and Caucasoid populations. Genetically, individuals from Neolithic and Bronze Age burials display only Western Eurasian mtDNA haplotypes.
The morphological trait combination that is predominant among the Pazyryk tribes appears to be autochthonous and probably derives from the Neolithic population of Gorny Altai and from people associated with an Okunev-type culture (Karakol).

see the gene flow from okunevo thru karasuk to iron age Altai(scythian)
https://s31.postimg.org/5qn0sb09n/Capture2.png

[Böri]

N-ice. Scythian was a generic name used for all people in the steppes. Not precisely an ethnic reference.

[NSXD60]

If I'm not mistaken we are talking here about the famous Ukok Ice "Princess" ;) and the rest of "her" posse burials?

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/SCIENCE/Princess-Ukok-face-restored/inside%20face%20alone.jpg
So, big deal, she looks like Glenn Close, case closed
https://thumbs.imgbox.com/e0/dc/OnTP7wea_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/OnTP7wea)