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Groenewolf
09-18-2010, 11:53 AM
Chronicles Magazine (http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/2010/09/16/turkish-referendum-neo-ottomans-victorious/)


by Srdja Trifkovic
September 16th, 2010 • Related • Filed Under

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Over the past eight years, Prime Minister Rejep Tayyip Erdoğan’s Islamist government and his AKP (Justice and Development Party) have been successful in undermining Mustafa Kemal’s legacy and the character of the state founded upon that legacy. What remained, until last Sunday’s referendum, was an increasingly empty shell of constitutional secularism. That shell was nevertheless an obstacle to the formal grounding of the new legitimacy in Islam at home and neo-Ottomanism abroad. Erdoğan and his team were determined to remove it, and on September 12 they succeeded. Turkey’s voters approved, by a large margin, a 26-article package which will end the Army’s role as the guardian of secularism. On current form, there is but little doubt that Erdoğan will be reelected with a simple majority when he calls the general election next spring.

We are witnessing the end of a process that could be predicted with precision. Seven and a half years ago I wrote in Chronicles (The American Interest, April 2003) that the Bush Administration was mistaken to pretend that Turkey was “a truly indispensable nation” with an “indispensable partnership with the United States,” a nation “central to building peace from Southeastern Europe to the Middle East and eastward to the Caucasus and Central Asia . . . crucial to bridging the dangerous gap between the West and the Muslim world”:


In his pitch to the West Mr. Erdoğan is unsurprisingly eager to minimize his party’s Islamic connections by stressing his “secular” and “conservative” credentials. His assurances were keenly accepted in Washington . . . During a recent trip to Turkey by The Rockford Institute’s fact-finding team we were repeatedly warned that things were no longer as they used to be a decade ago . . . The escalating crisis of Turkey’s economic and political system over the past decade reflected a deeper malaise, the loss of confidence of the old Kemalist elite. The implicit assumption in Washington—that Turkey would remain “secular” and “pro-Western,” come what may—should have been reassessed after the Army intervened to remove the previous pro-Islamic government in 1997. Since then many voices . . . have warned that “democratization” would mean Islamization, and that America needed alternative scenarios and regional strategies.

Plus ça change . . . Erdoğan and his team now claim that the constitutional reform approved last Sunday heralds the country’s democratization. Practicing the Islamic art of the taqiyya in its purest form, foreign minister Davutoğlu claims that the referendum was all about advancing civil rights and Western-style liberties, that it reflects “the Turkish nation’s will to live in a freer and more democratic environment in compliance with European Union standards.” It is “an important turning point for democracy in Turkey,” he says, and “a result of the Turkish nation’s interest in the reform process carried out in light of universal and European norms.” With an eye to Brussels, he also noted that the amendments introduced “constitutional guarantees for positive discrimination for women, children, the elderly and the disabled.”

Equally true to form, Washington’s self-deception is continuing. On Sunday afternoon President Barack Obama praised the “vibrancy of Turkish democracy” by citing high turnout in the referendum during a telephone conversation with Erdoğan. On Monday State Department spokesman Philip Crowley said the United States hopes the reforms endorsed on Sunday will “further enhance Turkey’s democratic process and human rights protection.” Asked if he disagrees with the claims of Turkish secularists that the changes will inhibit the judiciary’s ability to “oversee” the executive, Crowley replied that this was, in fact, a “decisive vote to move towards greater civilian oversight of these democratic institutions . . . We respect that statement by the Turkish people. And we hope that the government will, again, use this mandate to deepen democratic processes in Turkey as well as guarantee human rights protections.” Crowley ended by reiterating the US support for Turkey’s membership in the EU. Obama’s and Crowley’s statements are insane, confirming that those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.

The terminal loss of confidence of the old Kemalist elite is somewhat more surprising. The lack of support in Washington is a factor, but more important is the manner in which Erdoğan and the AKP had succeeded in obtaining the compliance of the secularist elite in the crucial early years. Turkey’s activist foreign policy has seduced them with the vision of an autonomous sphere of Turkish influence in the old Ottoman domains in the Middle East, the Caucasus, and the Balkans. It has enabled the Islamists to co-opt into the project many senior civil servants, diplomats and generals who are not sympathetic to the ideological assumptions of the neo-Ottoman paradigm, but who were ready and willing to support its “quantitative” aspects. They subscribed to the ostensibly traditional, nationalist components of Davutoğlu’s neo-Ottoman concept of strategic depth, without realizing that it was a Faustian pact.

On the day of his appointment as Turkey’s foreign minister in May 2009, Davutoğlu asserted that Turkey had an “order-instituting role” in the Middle East, the Balkans and the Caucasus, quite apart from its links with the West: “Turkey is no longer a country which only reacts to crises, but notices the crises before their emergence and intervenes in the crises effectively, and gives shape to the order of its surrounding region.” He further declared that Turkey had a “responsibility to help stability towards the countries and peoples of the regions which once had links with Turkey”—thus explicitly referring to the Ottoman era, in a manner unimaginable only a decade ago: “Beyond representing the 70 million people of Turkey, we have a historic debt to those lands where there are Turks or which was related to our land in the past. We have to repay this debt in the best possible manner.”

For the sake of Turkey’s status as a first-rate regional power—pleasing to their Kemalist-nationalist sensibilities—the secularist elite were prepared to close their eyes to the fact that Islam is the all-encompassing denominator of the project. Back in the fragile early days of 2002-2003 the AKP leadership wisely grasped the need for the secularist nationalists to be given a slot in the national consensus on Turkey’s multi-layered identity. Those days are now over.

(...)

Wyn
09-18-2010, 12:13 PM
Will it keep them out of the EU?

poiuytrewq0987
09-18-2010, 05:39 PM
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8620/davidcunteron2.jpg

Saruman
09-18-2010, 06:00 PM
As expected it passed, what Voinstvennyi points to is quite correct, especially in 10 years or so. Balkan could be f***** up again. And well I thought NWO won't like Erdogan but as usual they have their ways to exercise influence back door, so probably these weapons deals of for ex. letting Turks have F-35 will get approval by Obama. Just as Pakistani leadership remained kosher and islamist so can Erdogan. In a way ,potential influence of neo-ottoman Turkey on balkan could increase the agitation towards muslims in europe, which can help to stop them. But of course countries in South-East of europe would be an easy prey...
Before that Erdogan managed to beat the military by ensuring that general who "prays five times a day" becomes a probable chief of staff from 2013-2017.

The Lawspeaker
09-18-2010, 06:04 PM
Will it keep them out of the EU?
Not really.. as it is clearly designed to crush the Army's role as the protector of secularism and to open the door to Turkish membership of the EU which would lead to the influx of even more millions of Turks into Europe. This was specifically designed to crush European opposition and to give the coup de grace to Europe.
Next station along the line: Eurabia.

poiuytrewq0987
09-18-2010, 06:08 PM
As expected it passed, what Voinstvennyi points to is quite correct, especially in 10 years or so. Balkan could be f***** up again. And well I thought NWO won't like Erdogan but as usual they have their ways to exercise influence back door, so probably these weapons deals of for ex. letting Turks have F-35 will get approval by Obama. Just as Pakistani leadership remained kosher and islamist so can Erdogan. In a way ,potential influence of neo-ottoman Turkey on balkan could increase the agitation towards muslims in europe, which can help to stop them. But of course countries in South-East of europe would be an easy prey...
Before that Erdogan managed to beat the military by ensuring that general who "prays five times a day" becomes a probable chief of staff from 2013-2017.

Yes, indeed. It is quite unfortunate for us. :( Unless we have a new Yugoslavia or a "Slavic Federation" then we will be indeed easy prey for a neo-Ottoman Empire in the near future.

Turkey is already building more than 1,000 next-generation battle tanks (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Turkish_Main_Battle_Tank_MITUP_Altay.jpg/800px-Turkish_Main_Battle_Tank_MITUP_Altay.jpg) in addition of their already significant navy and air force of their million-man army. They're going to be a force to be reckoned with. Western powers will probably offer up the Balkans as a sacrificial cow to avoid angering Turkey because by then they will be an economic force the Western Powers depend on.

Groenewolf
09-18-2010, 06:14 PM
[FONT="Georgia"]Not really.. as it is clearly designed to crush the Army's role as the protector of secularism and to open the door to Turkish membership of the EU which would lead to the influx of even more millions of Turks into Europe.

Ironically, part of it was possible thanks to EU-pressure to diminish the role of the army in political affairs. Stays a wonderful thing the ideas of this person (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nikolaus_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi#European_union).:rolleyes2:

RoyBatty
09-18-2010, 06:20 PM
The Turkish military "secularists" are lapdogs of the NWO. A more Islamic and radical Turkey = a wakeup call for the idiot EU sheeple who may have harboured any fluffy feelings about accepting Turkey into the EU.

As an added bonus Turkey and EU relations will hopefully start worsening. The more friction and arguing the better. Better for us (average EU citizens), better for the world. (Because divisions within the NWO is what we want).

Therefore I support these welcome changes in Turkey.

Murphy
09-18-2010, 06:22 PM
A hard-line Islamist Turkey is a good thing for Europe in my opinion. Attempts to moderate places like Turkey are simply part of the global scheme of destroying our own identities, it's all in the efforts of the global organisations wishing to blur the lines of culture, ethnicity, nationhood, to create their new world order and one-world government.

Long live Islamic Turkey! Until they're converted that is :P.

Saruman
09-18-2010, 06:27 PM
The Turkish military "secularists" are lapdogs of the NWO. A more Islamic and radical Turkey = a wakeup call for the idiot EU sheeple who may have harboured any fluffy feelings about accepting Turkey into the EU.

As an added bonus Turkey and EU relations will hopefully start worsening. The more friction and arguing the better. Better for us (average EU citizens), better for the world. (Because divisions within the NWO is what we want).

Indeed, what can stop NWO in europe is more agitation from Europeans, and having islamist Turkey next door will help in that regard. Their army is of course NWO, there was Ergenekon organization put on trial, with links to Mossad etc., the western NWO media of course label it as a ghost organization, but the truth is that it probably held power behind the doors.
This is bad for NWO who liked having secular Turkey so they could push it to EU. This way Turkey won't ever enter EU, this is just rubbish, neither europeans want it, nor Erdogan.

RoyBatty
09-18-2010, 06:39 PM
Yep, it's better for us and better for the Turks to be kept separated. A win-win situation for our nations. The NWO will not be pleased though.

ikki
09-18-2010, 06:53 PM
then it has come to pass, always wondered if that eu carrot wouldt lead to democratisation and thus dismantling the military rule. We saw already a purge of the military by the political forces, the islamic party de-criminalised (after a name change), and now they go out in full swing.

Funny thing is that without eu, they would have staid a republican secular and militarist state. Now its allahu akbar, jihad state. By arms and overpopulation. Guess that segregation between classes is about to be reversed.

Guapo
09-18-2010, 10:37 PM
Not really.. as it is clearly designed to crush the Army's role as the protector of secularism and to open the door to Turkish membership of the EU which would lead to the influx of even more millions of Turks into Europe. This was specifically designed to crush European opposition and to give the coup de grace to Europe.
Next station along the line: Eurabia.


EU wants to crush Russia and all Slavs that don't kiss Germanic ass with Turkey's help, plain and simple.

poiuytrewq0987
09-18-2010, 11:23 PM
A very good read, Homo Serbicus.

The Lawspeaker
09-19-2010, 02:40 AM
EU wants to crush Russia and all Slavs that don't kiss Germanic ass with Turkey's help, plain and simple.
Guess what. It has nothing to do with Germanics and Slavs because we're all effed. It has to do with international bankers that move from place to place. When Europe has been sucked dry and has become a desolate third world hellhole they move on.

Bringing in the Turks and opening the doors for other scum brings in more "competition" on the market and drives down wages -hence more returns for them as they invest in companies and also creates friction so no one will look at them.

poiuytrewq0987
09-19-2010, 03:32 AM
Guess what. It has nothing to do with Germanics and Slavs because we're all effed. It has to do with international bankers that move from place to place. When Europe has been sucked dry and has become a desolate third world hellhole they move on.

Bringing in the Turks and opening the doors for other scum brings in more "competition" on the market and drives down wages -hence more returns for them as they invest in companies and also creates friction so no one will look at them.

Actually, the Yugoslav nations will be the first ones to be fucked in the ass. Serbia and Bulgaria, two biggest Yugoslav nations will shrink to a mere 4-4.5 million by 2050 and Turkey? It'll grow to 100 million. Yeah, we're fucked.

The Lawspeaker
09-19-2010, 03:50 AM
Actually, the Yugoslav nations will be the first ones to be fucked in the ass. Serbia and Bulgaria, two biggest Yugoslav nations will shrink to a mere 4-4.5 million by 2050 and Turkey? It'll grow to 100 million. Yeah, we're fucked.
And so are we. They are already here, mate. And breeding like rabbits.

Curtis24
09-19-2010, 04:57 AM
The Ottomans ruled the Middle East for centuries. Things really haven't changed that much when you think about it...

But it makes sense, when you think about it. Turkey is geographically situated to control vital sea lanes, while also being fairly protected by its mountains. Turkey is ethnically homogeneous, for the most part. Unlike the Arab countries, Turkey is an actual nation-state and not a bunch of tribes being held together by a dictatorship. Turkey's economy is also light years ahead of other Mideastern/North African economies, and still growing.

Turkey may pay lip service to the Islamists, but it conducts itself more like a European country, albeit a ruthless and immoral one..

All those things being said, I think the future reality may look like a power struggle between the U.S. and Turkey for control of the Mideast(and Mideast oil, by extension). Despite what the media portrays, the Iraq War achieved its objective of gaining Iraq's oil supplies..

Groenewolf
09-19-2010, 05:53 AM
EU wants to crush Russia and all Slavs that don't kiss Germanic ass with Turkey's help, plain and simple.

That is a big joke. The entire pan-European movement that lead to the founding of the EU was started and lead by a mongrel that dreamed of an Eurasian-Negroid race. And where was popular opposition to the Lisbon treaty the greatest. The Germanic countries, pretty weird if it the entire EU is about us getting more power. Instead it seems more about us paying the bills for the rest and having little to say in return.

Turkophagos
09-19-2010, 11:06 AM
Balkan gatekeepers will have to deal with it while our european comrades will be looking (at best/again).

poiuytrewq0987
09-19-2010, 05:21 PM
Balkan gatekeepers will have to deal with it while our european comrades will be looking (at best/again).

Yeah, they live on our misery. Oh, where would be Europe without the Byzantine Empire? The little Holy Roman Empire would've been overrun a long time ago... :coffee:

Albion
09-19-2010, 06:31 PM
EU wants to crush Russia and all Slavs that don't kiss Germanic ass with Turkey's help, plain and simple.

The Germanic countries, pretty weird if it the entire EU is about us getting more power.

The Germanics have nothing to do with it, the EU is the offspring of France and Germany.


Yeah, they live on our misery. Oh, where would be Europe without the Byzantine Empire? The little Holy Roman Empire would've been overrun a long time ago...

Yeah, and when the Byzantines and Balkans could take no more it was up to the Austrians. Who would have thought that no humble nation would have played such a big role in European history :thumb001: :lightbul: