Baden culture DNA

[davai]

what do we know about it?

pls discuss.

[Voskos]

CO1, Baden culture. mtDNA H
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-onP6clm5rG0/VFKqXlTNhoI/AAAAAAAABws/ZpcyUArZ0uE/w201-h290-no/CO1_K15.png


CO1, the Copper Age genome from a Baden Culture burial, appears ridiculously Western European, and could easily pass for a present-day Sardinian in most analyses, even though it's most likely of Balkan and Near Eastern origin. It's very similar in that respect to another Copper Age sample, Oetzi the Iceman from the Tyrolean Alps.

[Poise n Pen]

Baden and funnelbeaker are probably whiter versions of indo europeans and likrly real homeland, which is why no one has interest in digging there.

[Longbowman]

Neolithic people, wog genes.

[Poise n Pen]

"In the Kurgan hypothesis espoused by Marija Gimbutas, the Baden culture is seen as being Indo-Europeanized. For proponents of the older theory that seeks the Indo-European homeland in central Europe in the area occupied by the preceding Funnelbeaker culture, it is similarly considered Indo-European."

Well, indo europeans were somewhere in neolithic, and by eneolithic the mtdna of europe magically becomes correct.

Assuming they are IE then dna from baden or TRB could be compared to the LBK and if it's whiter, then the whole kurgan theory is bullshit (which it is).

But they only take ever DNA from one direction....

[Dick]

WASN'T OETZI THE ICEMAN FROM THE BADEN CULTURE

[Rethel]

Baden and funnelbeaker are probably whiter versions of indo europeans and likrly real homeland, which is why no one has interest in digging there.

:picard2:

Funnelbeakers are autosomally +/- 90% swarthy anatolian with local browny admixture.

[Poise n Pen]

WASN'T OETZI THE ICEMAN FROM THE BADEN CULTURE

No, he was an invader to the area.

[Pahli]

:picard2:

Funnelbeakers are autosomally +/- 90% swarthy anatolian with local browny admixture.

Until the combined powers of EHG and Iran_Neo raped that down to around 40%.

[Rethel]

Poise Pen's mythology is butthurted :laugh:

[Poise n Pen]

:picard2:

Funnelbeakers are autosomally +/- 90% swarthy anatolian with local browny admixture.

There's been no autosomal dna from funnelbeaker but ever if there were it's fucking huge so one little area would mean nothing.

"Ancient DNA extracted from three individuals ascribed to a TRB horizon in Gökhem, Sweden, were found to possess mtDNA haplogroups H, J, and T"

And the point is not to show it fully white, just whiter. Since LBK has barely any H it cannot be said to be a very modern european group for example. But there's a shitload of the proper H to the west...but not the east.

https://rokus01.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/why_yamnaya_didnt_contribute/

mtdna in funnelbeaker, btw is very modern. There is also some r1 and I y-dna found.

Y-DNA

Baalberge group (c. 5,800 to 5,350 ybp ; central Germany): I, R1

Salzmünde group (5,400 to 5,000 ybp : East Germany): G2a2a (x2), I2a1b1a (x2)

mtDNA

Funnelbeaker Culture (samples from Sweden) : H (x3), H1, H24, J1d5, J2b1a, K1a5, T2b

Baalberge group (c. 5,800 to 5,350 ybp ; central-east Germany): H (x3), H1e1a, H7d5, HV, J, K1a (x2), N1a1a, T1a1, T2b, T2c (x2), T2e1, U5b2a2, U8a1a, X, X2c

Walternienburg-Bernburg group (c. 5,100 to 4,700 ybp ; central-east Germany): H, H1e1a3, H5, K1, K1a (x2), T2b, U5a, U5b, U5b1c1, U5b2a1a, V, W, X

Salzmünde group (5,400 to 5,000 ybp : central-east Germany): H (x2), H3 (x2), H5, HV, HV0, J, J1c (x2), J2b1a, K1, K1a, K1a4a1a2, N1a1a1a3 (x2), T2b (x2), U3a, U3a1, U5b, V, X2b1'2'3'4'5'6

[Rethel]

There's been no autosomal dna from funnelbeaker but ever if there were it's fucking huge so one little area would mean nothing.

Was. Check on Genetiker's diagrams.


"Ancient DNA extracted from three individuals ascribed to a TRB horizon in Gökhem, Sweden, were found to possess mtDNA haplogroups H, J, and T"

And the point is not to show it fully white, just whiter. Since LBK has barely any H it cannot be said to be a very modern european group for example. But there's a shitload of the proper H to the west...but not the east.

https://rokus01.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/why_yamnaya_didnt_contribute/

mtdna in funnelbeaker, btw is very modern. There is also some r1 and I y-dna found.

Y-DNA

Baalberge group (c. 5,800 to 5,350 ybp ; central Germany): I, R1

Salzmünde group (5,400 to 5,000 ybp : East Germany): G2a2a (x2), I2a1b1a (x2)

mtDNA

Funnelbeaker Culture (samples from Sweden) : H (x3), H1, H24, J1d5, J2b1a, K1a5, T2b

Baalberge group (c. 5,800 to 5,350 ybp ; central-east Germany): H (x3), H1e1a, H7d5, HV, J, K1a (x2), N1a1a, T1a1, T2b, T2c (x2), T2e1, U5b2a2, U8a1a, X, X2c

Walternienburg-Bernburg group (c. 5,100 to 4,700 ybp ; central-east Germany): H, H1e1a3, H5, K1, K1a (x2), T2b, U5a, U5b, U5b1c1, U5b2a1a, V, W, X

Salzmünde group (5,400 to 5,000 ybp : central-east Germany): H (x2), H3 (x2), H5, HV, HV0, J, J1c (x2), J2b1a, K1, K1a, K1a4a1a2, N1a1a1a3 (x2), T2b (x2), U3a, U3a1, U5b, V, X2b1'2'3'4'5'6

:picard2:

And? :picard2:

[Petalpusher]

There's been no autosomal dna from funnelbeaker but ever if there were it's fucking huge so one little area would mean nothing.

"Ancient DNA extracted from three individuals ascribed to a TRB horizon in Gökhem, Sweden, were found to possess mtDNA haplogroups H, J, and T"

And the point is not to show it fully white, just whiter. Since LBK has barely any H it cannot be said to be a very modern european group for example. But there's a shitload of the proper H to the west...but not the east.

https://rokus01.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/why_yamnaya_didnt_contribute/



That's normal, it's all neolithic mtdna since it's in the neolithic. Why would Yamnaya contribute to something 5000 BC like LBK, it came afterwards and for the most part men, so mt's didn't change much.

[Poise n Pen]

Was. Check on Genetiker's diagrams.



:picard2:

And? :picard2:

I guess your deep retardation is why I had you on ignore before.

So we have I1 dna (actually several of them found not listed there) and r1 y-dna and modern mtdna and it's not significant? Meanwhile they are talking about the LBK being the ancestors of modern europe instead even though to the west the people are much closer to modern populations than either to them or to yamnaya.

The Baalberge group BTW is the "real" funnelbeaker, the original atyle and area.

And here is what genetiker has to say:

"The dv3 results show that the people of the Pitted Ware culture were more closely related to Western Europeans than to Eastern Europeans, and that the people of the Funnelbeaker culture were much more closely related to Western Europeans than to Eastern Europeans."

You realize genetiker has said over and over and over that Steppe Theory is pure bullshit, right? It's just a politically correct version of the original theory which attempts to cuck northern europeans.

"Ajvide 52
hunter-gatherer
Pitted Ware culture
Gotland
4,900–4,600 BP
mt hg V"

Again significant. Anywhere there is r1b found in modern times there is V mtdna.

84.75% Atlantic_Baltic

So as I suspected MUCH whiter than yamnaya's results. So how the fuck can you be EARLIER AND more western AND more white than LBK and then claim that people claim from the EAST from a group who are much less white?

Anyone who believes this shit is either hopelessly retarded or a liar. But at least I finally got the proof I was looking for. Funny how this is totally ignored by most people though.

[Petalpusher]

Ajvide's are almost HG survivors in the neolithic period (there are several samples), for two main reasons, they were living on the Gotland island so the neolithic didn't reach them as early and generally the neolithic happened a little later in Scandinavia (time to go up there i guess), he is considered HG for instance, just slightly admixed so not used as reference for WHG/SHG. I actually match that guy and it's rare (cause Burgundian roots), so he has a bunch of descendants but much less than Loschbour and the usual suspects.

For sure he was "whiter" than the Yamnaya but that's because he was a HG survivor, there was also KO1 a bit earlier in Hungary, and probably there are still a few around Europe in isolated places to find, if we ever stumble upon them.

Baden is typical early/middle neo genetically, same as everywhere.

[Rethel]

You realize genetiker has said over and over and over that Steppe Theory is pure bullshit, right?

And a couple of months ago, he appologized
for all bullshit which he was spreading earlier.
Aaand: this, that he was an admirer of some
stupid theory, does not mean, that genetic
results which he published are wrong.

Rest of it I do not comment, becasue you
"ignore" it, so I will not waiste my time.

p.s. It is not your fault that you are I1.
Accept it, abandon stupidity, and move on.

[Poise n Pen]

Ajvide's are almost HG survivors in the neolithic period (there are several samples), for two main reasons, they were living on the Gotland island so the neolithic didn't reach them as early and generally the neolithic happened a little later in Scandinavia (time to go up there i guess), he is considered HG for instance, just slightly admixed so not used as reference for WHG/SHG. I actually match that guy and it's rare (cause Burgundian roots), so he has a bunch of descendants but much less than Loschbour and the usual suspects.

For sure he was "whiter" than the Yamnaya but that's because he was a HG survivor, there was also KO1 a bit earlier in Hungary, and probably there are still a few around Europe in isolated places to find, if we ever stumble upon them.

Baden is typical early/middle neo genetically, same as everywhere.

What do I even say to this? It is so dumb I don't know where to start.

So I point to a funnelbeaker guy with modern y-dna and mtdna (I y-dna and V mtdna) who is much whiter than yamnaya and in germany and it doesn't matter somehow. Ok. but the whole idea is that yamnaya spread the HG genes to the west in the first place! But we already have basically a 100% northern european right here. It doesn't even make any fucking sense.

You can say IE = R1B = HG origin all you like but it is all a bunch of fantasy with no support.

"Below are the results of analyses of the Gökhem 2 genome. Gökhem 2 was a Neolithic farmer of the Funnelbeaker culture. Her remains were found in a megalithic burial structure in Gökhem parish, in Västergötland province, in southwest Sweden. The remains were dated to 5,050 to 4,750 years ago.

Gökhem 2 belonged to mitochondrial haplogroup H1c."

64.84% Atlantic_Baltic
28.77% Southern

Ok...this is significant for many reasons. First off he is mostly white already and a farmer. More importantly he is a part of megalithic culture. Basically the north atlantic = megalithic culture and it definitely comes from the west.

That's it, done, origins solved. This guy is already fully modern central european! The only thing he lacks is some angry negrito dna from the east that only exists is small amounts. Which is what the yamnaya component attempts to conceal from retards. They already had the fucking HG dna and it came from the north and west not the east, the other part of yamnaya component only made it in slight gradients through europe and was nothing to do with original indo-europeans.

[Petalpusher]

What do I even say to this? It is so dumb I don't know where to start.

So I point to a funnelbeaker guy with modern y-dna and mtdna (I y-dna and V mtdna) who is much whiter than yamnaya and in germany and it doesn't matter somehow. Ok. but the whole idea is that yamnaya spread the HG genes to the west in the first place! But we already have basically a 100% northern european right here. It doesn't even make any fucking sense.

You can say IE = R1B = HG origin all you like but it is all a bunch of fantasy with no support.

"Below are the results of analyses of the Gökhem 2 genome. Gökhem 2 was a Neolithic farmer of the Funnelbeaker culture. Her remains were found in a megalithic burial structure in Gökhem parish, in Västergötland province, in southwest Sweden. The remains were dated to 5,050 to 4,750 years ago.

Gökhem 2 belonged to mitochondrial haplogroup H1c."

64.84% Atlantic_Baltic
28.77% Southern

Ok...this is significant for many reasons. First off he is mostly white already and a farmer. More importantly he is a part of megalithic culture. Basically the north atlantic = megalithic culture and it definitely comes from the west.

That's it, done, origins solved. This guy is already fully modern central european! The only thing he lacks is some angry negrito dna from the east that only exists is small amounts. Which is what the yamnaya component attempts to conceal from retards. They already had the fucking HG dna and it came from the north and west not the east, the other part of yamnaya component only made it in slight gradients through europe and was nothing to do with original indo-europeans.

Didn't say it didn't matter, Ajvide is just a survivor (for his time period), it's well known and two were found like that, all the other samples are typical neolithic, there are usually plenty even if you see only one name of culture. I never said R1b was all Yamnaya, but generally most of our R1 subclades comes from them. If you want my opinion about this i do think Yamnaya groups were quite the mongrels but that's probably another thing to debate. We are usually between the neo and the BA, for most Europe.

I would agree Gokhem "comes from the West", it's even very possible her group were in France or West Germany at some point (as there are a lot of H1c around the region) and as you say there s a whole trace of megalithic structures (which were also Anatolia 10ky so, it's clear as it can be..), then they later very possibly followed the northsea, up to Sweden where it's found.Today it peaks in Danemark, there s also the famous Egtved girl, H1c too.

Anyway Gokhem is still fairly typical neolithic mix of anatolian and HG's but why Gokhem is more "northern"? let's be practical, let's forget the numbers for a minute ... they didn't teletransport from Anatolia or Greece or whatever right? they walked their path and extended relatively slowly from there into Europe, absorbing more and more local HG ancestry as they were going west and north (but probably just more west at the beginning as it was more fertile). When the neolithic people reached Scandinavia later they were already heavily admixed with HG's but on top of it they also mixed again there when they arrived with the more Motala and Ajvide types, who had a little of pre IE ANE, it matches for instance perfectly with admixture, until the end of the neolithic. So it added another layer but very likely these groups were living in Western Europe before going to the north, again they didn't take a plane directly to the north, they followed the most arable land, we know it's somewhere around the Alps up to the Benelux.

You find neolithic people in Scandinavia, or Danemark for example who easily trump everything in HG ancestry than anything that will ever come out in the Bronze Age to these days, maybe not quite Gokhem but for sure later some Late neolithic, still with little to none ANE/EHG/CHG "Yamnaya stuff" and on the same axe of neo/HG than all the others neolithic, so the whole IE/Yamnaya is not even a problem at this point. What's interesting is that first flow of neolithic was seconded by another wave that somehow apparently stopped mostly in the Balkan, usually people in the West don't have much eastmed/west asian and so do not the Scandinavians or northeastern, so the route is pretty obvious, first wave expands west, then north, second wave more southeast, east for a general idea, which also makes sense because it was already heavily settled in the west by farming communities.


A PCA with fstats makes it more clear. Usual neo is around Sardinian (the fstat is clear, all red in shared genetic), so Gokhem's are above, drifting exactly in the direction of WHG and SHG from Sardinian-like, that's because they mix together, simple as that. Some LN would keep going up on that axe, some rather just straight up to upper left corner, where Villabruna would be (the most distant to anything non Euro in Eurasia)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hoBLZ0dZXto/U1luxCudqwI/AAAAAAAAJk4/J3X428YdPzo/s1600/PCA.png

[Dick]

deep retardation


HE'S POLISH. NEED I SAY MORE.

[Rethel]

HE'S POLISH. NEED I SAY MORE.

Said Balkanite... :picard2:

[davai]

https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Datasets_files/nature16152.pdf
http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6257

any other relevant papers on this topic? I am looking for peer-review papers lads.

I know that they were swarthy WOG R1bs but I want to know their downstreams and if there are any papers specifically mentioning Kostolac, Rinaldone, Gaudo etc. Baden related cultures. Anything about their Y??